>> Welcome to This Week in South Carolina.

I'm Gavin Jackson.

It was a significant week in the House as the state's $14 billion budget was passed in one day and there were two major retirement announcements that will change the landscape in that chamber.

The Associated Press reporters Jeffrey Collins and Meg Kinnard join us to talk about all that Statehouse activity and for President Donald Trump's visit to the state.

But first, here's more from this week.

Thousands of folks turned out in Florence on Saturday to see former President Donald Trump as he made another stop on his tour to back challengers that will primary incumbents who have wronged him, such as 7th Congressional District Representative Tom Rice, who voted to impeach Trump over the January 6th insurrection.

And 1st Congressional District Representative Nancy Mace, who has been critical of the former president, State Representative Russell Fry and former 1st Congressional District Republican nominee Katie Arrington are challenging Rice and Mace respectively.

>> Unfortunately, for the patriots of South Carolina, you currently have two atrocious rhinos.

They're bad people in the House, who went to Washington, sold you out and partnered with the Democrats to stab the Republican Party and frankly, to stab our country in the back right here in the 7th Congressional District, Tom Rice, a disaster.

He's respected by no one.

He's laughed at in Washington.

He was never thought highly of in Washington.

In the 1st congressional district, you have another horrendous rhino, known as crazy Nancy Mace.

(Audience jeers) Two years ago, she begged for my endorsement and I pledged and she pledged to be America First all the way.

She's going to be - I'm going to be America First.

Instead, the first thing Nancy Mace did when she got to Washington was start attacking Republicans and hold a fundraiser for wacky Liz Cheney... Liz Cheney.

<Gavin> In the State House this week just after the House passed its 14 dollar billion budget, another House leader, this time speaker Jay Lucas announced their retirement as turnover of leaders and members gets underway this election year.

>> You have graciously bestowed upon me.

One of the greatest honors of my life, and I hope I was up to the job.

My time will come when this session ends, will be a time for a new chapter to be written for the House.

I will miss you all so very much.

But make no mistake, Mr. Smith, it is time.

Thank you all.

(applause) <Gavin> Lucas of Hartsville was first elected to the House in 1998 and has served as Speaker since 2014, guiding the chamber through notable events such as the Confederate Battle Flag debate in 2015.

The gas tax increase in 2017, and recently more unifying votes, like the income tax cut bill earlier this session.

Leaders have already named House, Ways and Means Committee Chairman Murrell Smith as the heir apparent.

>> We're going to see where it is.

I have a very good job right now and I'm honored to be Ways and Means chairman and we still have a speaker and so we'll see how that progresses.

<Gavin> Joining me now is Associated Press reporter Jeffrey Collins.

He's here to recap some big news out of the Statehouse this week.

Jeffrey, welcome back.

Thank you, Gavin.

Well, Jeffrey, like I said very newsy week out of the Statehouse, specifically the House of Representatives.

There's been a lot of leadership changes, and we saw the budget get passed, but I want to talk about those leadership changes, the big bombshell, being that the House Speaker Jay Lucas announcing his retirement this week, after serving for some 24 years in the House, and eight of those which he's been leading the House as speaker.

Tell us what you make of this announcement?

<Jeffrey> Well, there was a word that you typically don't use in the House, it was very emotional.

It was, you know, Jane Lucas did a very short speech.

But at the end of it, there was this very powerful release of emotion in the House that I probably can't remember seeing, maybe back to the Confederate flag debate back in July of 2015.

But, it definitely means a change to the...House.

I mean, you know, it looks like perhaps we'll have somewhat of a similar leadership style come about, but I mean, you know, this is going to be a big leadership void, and there's going to be a lot of different faces, not only in leadership positions, but everywhere in the House next year.

>>Jeffrey talk to me about that.

We were talking about, you mentioned the Confederate Flag debate.

That was the biggest debate, the big, big moment there for Jay Lucas early in his career.

He had just taken over December 2014 as speaker, and then like you said, June, July 2015, huge debate over the Confederate flag that kind of made him, in a sense.

What are your some of your thoughts on that and some of the legacy that we see from Jay Lucas, from what you've heard from...lawmakers?

<Jeffrey> Oh, you know, there were... the Confederate Flag was one of his biggest debates.

I'm sure if you asked him, he'd be very proud of the abortion bill that passed last year, finally getting through a stricter abortion bill.

There were some successes like the income tax cuts another one I'm sure he'd be proud of, the road tax bill.

I mean, he managed to get a tax increase through a Republican dominant House, which is not a easy thing to do, but his legacy I think, overall, and I wrote this in my story, it's a kinder, gentler House.

Lucas took over for Bobby Harrell after Bobby Harrell was indicted, and Harrell was not - was much different person and had a much different leadership style than Jay Lucas did.

You know, Harrell played favorites, and was my way or the highway, and, you know, didn't have much to do if you didn't have anything that you could do for Bobby Harrell, he wasn't as apt to have much to do with you.

Jay Lucas knows what all 123 House members or tries real hard to.

He knows their families, their likes, their dislikes?

You know, he cares.

I mean, that's, that's, you know, I think all those tears in emotion were because he's a very good human being who cares deeply about every member of the House and about the state of South Carolina?

<Gavin> Yeah, big consensus builder there, like we said a people pleaser, of course.

And you mentioned there to the gas tax debate in 2017, a big proponent of that a big person helped get that push through was Gary Simrill.

He's the House majority leader.

And he too, is also retiring after some 30 years in the chamber.

And that's, you know, this is just part of a wave that we're seeing right now too, of I think there's about 10 Republicans who aren't seeking reelection next year.

I've heard this to being upwards of 30 members total, not seeking re-election this year.

What's driving this and maybe talk a little bit about Gary Simrill's legacy, as well.

<Jeffrey> Sure, you know, Gary Simrill, is someone that has climbed up through the ranks very well respected, has, you know, put in his dues and eventually got into a position of power and to tell you how long Gary Simrill had been in the House, Back when I was had a dark hair and was a young cover reporter.

My first encounter with Gary Simrill was in the late 90s, when he was pushing a bill to increase the speed limit on interstates to 70 miles an hour.

So kids, that was a long, long time.

<Gavin> You think?!

>> Yeah.

Exactly <Jeffrey> So you know, and that would be a big leadership void, because you know, Jay Lucas, is the 50,000 foot person over the whole chamber, Gary Simrill, was the person that's keeping Republicans in line and making sure that the House runs on time and gets things accomplished, and it doesn't, you know, the Republican Party doesn't fall into factions.

So, his departure will be big, too, because that will be another big hole to fill that I'm not quite sure we know who's going to fill it overall, and there are some reporting in the state newspaper today that we're probably going to see at least 10, if not more House members that have already decided they aren't coming back.

That's before we even get to any primaries where some may lose or general election.

And you know, we're...approaching and probably will be well past 10% of the House turning over in one cycle, which is a pretty big number, and there are people that have been there a while.

There are people that have powerful, you know, some of them acquired some power like Gary Smith from Greenville County.

He's a representative, and he's more of the kind of the leader of the most conservative faction in the Republican side of the House.

And he's leaving.

I mean, there's - it's going to be a very different House come in, you know, in 2023, with maybe one small difference, because I think we'll know who the leader is.

<Gavin>We'll get to that in a minute, -Jeffrey, what do you think is driving this?

is redistricting playing a big part?

Obviously, the Republicans will have a super majority next go round, but even still, you're seeing some of these more conservative members who will benefit from such a majority, also departing, so it's kind of an interesting mix right now.

<Jeffrey> I think it's redistricting.

I mean, I think it's also just part of you know, that was certainly - when we get in these every 10 year cycles, it does tend to increase.

I think also it's just one of those cyclical kind of things.

I just think there's each of these people have their own reasons for deciding to step aside and sometimes it just kind of comes in one wave and you just kind of have to ride it out.

<Gavin> ...Jeffrey, we heard from Gary Simrill, like we're talking about, still the House majority leader and House minority leader Todd Rutherford, both saying that Murrell Smith the House, Ways and Means chairman, he's a deadlock to become the next Speaker of the House.

We also caught up with Murrell Smith after the speaker's bombshell announcement.

What did you hear from him?

What stood out to you when he was talking to us?

<Jeffrey> I think... it obviously seems to be Murrell Smith's speaker job if he wants it.

...you know, he indicated to Sean Cox of the Post and Courier that he's very, he's interested in it.

Obviously, he has to be elected in December.

There are some things that can happen between now and then Murrell Smith's got to win reelection.

Who knows what else might happen in the House but it seems like it's about as much of a lock as it can be at this point.

Murrell, you know, when he was talking, he praised Jay Lucas and praised Jay Lucas's consensus building, his willingness to stretch across the aisle, talk to Democrats talk to anybody, you know, try to get - I think Jay Lucas was very proud that the income tax vote passed unanimously.

I mean, I think that's something he takes a great deal of pride in that he was able to get that kind of party consensus, and that's something Murrell Smith says he wants to see the House continue, and I think that's something you will see him try to continue.

Are there differences?

Yes, I think Murrell Smith, is going to be more of a, - he's going to have more, crack the whip a little bit more, I think he'll have a little more, ...try to keep things in order a little bit more and have a little more.

I don't want to say punishment, but a little more consequences if you do decide to not do what he wants you to do.

But I do think it's going to be an extension of what we've seen with Jay Lucas.

<Gavin> Yeah, I just want to say he is seen as a pragmatic leader people.

He's not afraid to say no to people sometimes.

But also, he's very willing to communicate, listen to people and obviously apply it later on down the road, seems like, which, we've actually kind of seen play out in this budget recently, with, with him being the leader of the budget writing committee in the House, really just shrinking the time of debate on the floor for this budget, to just one day this past year.

...how does...that has to mesh and carry over into his leadership style, should he be the Speaker of the House?

<Jeffrey> ...you know, I think...that's something that the House has done very, quite a bit is efficiency, right?

and I mean, we, you know, the House doesn't debate things like they used to, I mean, you know, you we will get, typically, when the bill comes up, you'll hear from people that aren't happy with it, but you don't hear much from the people that are happy with it, and then it, you know, it gets approved by a 72 to 36 vote, even if it's kind of controversial.

I mean, even if there are some problems, or some people that you hear three hours of debate.

So I think that'll continue, we'll continue to have that House structure where, where Murrell Smith knows what he wants to do.

He lines up everything.

It happens the way he thinks it's going to happen, and we move on to the next thing...I think too, ...Murrell Smith will have a has a good relationship with the Senate.

As Ways and Means Chairman, he's dealt with the people in the Senate more than almost any other House member because of budget negotiations and things of that nature.

The people in the Senate respect him.

I mean, you still have the Senate House, you know, conflict, because that's just, you know, it's like Tom and Jerry, cat and mouse and everything.

That just happens.

But, you know, I think that you'll see the House and Senate continue to get along.

I don't want to see in lockstep, but you know, do things that make sense.

<Gavin>Yeah, because all this is coming after the Senate has seen their shake up in leadership, as well with the passing of Senate Finance Committee chairman Hugh Leatherman, last November, that set off kind of a domino effect in that chamber for some leadership shakeup.

So really, this whole session, this latter half of the session, two years, has really been focused on, dominated by leadership changes that we just really maybe didn't predict just six, eight months ago.

<Jeffrey> It's going to feel a lot different in January.

I know that.

<Gavin> Well, Jeffrey, let's talk about the budget.

We have about three minutes left.

We just saw the House again, big news this week from the House passing that $14 billion budget on Monday.

Tell us what's in it.

You know, we had all this extra money, we thought there'd be issues with that.

It didn't turn out to be the case.

>> Yeah, you know, they call it budget week, but in the end, it was budget day.

They did this in one day, and that says something that there weren't many places people could argue and I think that, you know, Murrell Smith, the chairman of Ways and Means summed it up very well, you know, he took a Biggie Smalls quote, and changed it a little bit, you know.

Mo' Money, no problems.

I mean, ultimately, there was enough money where everybody got what they were looking for, and I mean, you know, there's a billion dollars for roads in this budget.

There's - every state employee's going to get a pay raise.

Well, every state employee is going to get a pay raise.

Nearly every teacher is going to get a pay raise, almost every law enforcement officer's going to get a pay raise.

There's like $150 million to build new schools $100 million, for textbooks.

They gave teachers an extra $2.7 million to bump up their supply checks from $275 to $300.

There's money for mental health.

There's money for - $4 million for election security.

There's, you know, $65 there's a $75 million Oh, I'm, sorry $87 million for the resiliency.

I mean, I could go on and on.

You get the drift...

There's just a ton of money for everybody.

<Gavin> Yeah, I'm just looking through it... this touches everyone in the state, from roads, to salaries to pensions to even, you know, freezing tuition, like we've seen happening over and over for the past few years, too.

I mean, it's really quite remarkable there, but they're, you know, now it goes to the Senate.

They're working on their version that - their own spending plan there, but tell me a little about this tax cut bill.

I mean, you mentioned it, how it's a big achievement for the House to have passed that unanimously.

It's a different plan than what the Senate's talking about.

I feel like there's going to be some friction there on what ends up actually getting passed, but it still sounds like we'll have some sort of tax cut in some way, shape or form this year.

>>Oh, there will be a tax cut, but there's a $1.4 billion question looming over all of it.

The House version only cuts income tax rates.

It doesn't provide a rebate, and the House set aside $600 million this year for it.

It would drop the top rate from 7% to 6.5% and eventually to 6%.

The Senate version provides rebates, which is the biggest difference.

They put aside a billion dollars.

Anybody who files an income tax form gets a rebate, even if they don't pay any income tax.

That's - Senate feels like is a pretty big deal, and we'll have to see how that shakes out in the negotiations.

The Senate version also cuts the top tax rate from 7% to 5.7%, which is another big jump.

And I mean... that's, that's a fairly significant gap to come through, but both sides want it.

So, you know, the only question will be, you know, it almost is how close will the House come to the Senate side, because you know, the $600 million, it's like... the offer that the car dealership makes for your used car, right?

You know, and then you start negotiating, and they're going to go up.

It's not going to go under $600 million dollars.

It's going to go up.

We'll just have to see where it ends up.

<Gavin>...Jeffrey, we've got about a minute left here.

What else are you watching?

What are some of the bigger bills that you're keeping an eye on as we get closer and closer to the end of session in mid May?

<Jeffrey> Medical Marijuana has to come up in the House.

I mean... there's been a promise, they're going to at least debate it.

So, I think once we get past...crossover and things are set in place, we'll have a medical marijuana debate on the House side.

Senate's got its budget, obviously, that it needs to go through, you know, and we'll have to see - I'm interested to see if any of these, what I call social kind of bills that, save women's sports about transgender athletes in high school sports, if there's an abortion bill that may come up.

We'll have to see how they - None of those have been positioned yet to pass through one chamber where they need to be before the April 10 crossover deadline.

So, that'll be interesting to see if they decide to spend a few days on those kind of social issues.

>>Yeah, because once the House I mean, obviously, they finished their budget at this point.

...now they have, ...the rest of the session until May to really work on some of these big bills that they've been talking about in committee, and we'll see where they end up going, but yeah, medical marijuana being a big one.

Just really quick.

Do you think with so many people retiring, that they might be able to push this through maybe some of these conservatives who were on the fence before now, maybe feel like they don't have too much to lose if they're not running for re-election.

<Jeffrey> That's the argument I'm making, if Senator Tom Davis is backing this medical marijuana bill, and that's something to watch out for the next couple of months.

...either a bunch of people that don't have to answer to the voters that may decide to go a different way than you typically see them go.

<Gavin> So much to watch for.

We'll be there with you Jeffrey Collins.

He's with the Associated Press.

Thanks for joining us, again.

<Jeffrey> Thanks for having me, Gavin.

I always enjoy it.

<Gavin> Associated Press reporter Meg Kinnard joins us now to recap the recent trip by former President Donald Trump to the state and a look at the upcoming primaries.

Meg, welcome back.

>> Hello.

It's good to be back with you.

<Gavin> Thanks for being here.

Meg, we were both out there at Florence Regional Airport last Saturday to see the former president come visit.

He was speaking on behalf of two candidates that he's endorsing for the 1st and the 7th Congressional District races.

Talk...to us about the state of play in those races and what we heard from the former president.

>> A lot of what we heard from Donald Trump is what we've been hearing for years, kind of his campaign style rally shtick, but specific to South Carolina, he was very vocal in his opposition to Nancy Mace and Tom Rice, and his support for Russell Fry and Katie Arrington there in the districts that you mentioned the 1st and the 7th.

There was a lot of rhetoric.

There was a lot of lines intended to get the crowd amped up, like you said.

It was a long day.

It was very cold.

It was very rainy, but there were still some faithful supporters there who were really just ready to hear Donald Trump, some of whom weren't even voters in either district, but we're just there to see his return to South Carolina.

So, a lot of what we heard was familiar, but there was some specific information pertinent to any voters who may have been listening and getting his thoughts on what's going to be happening in the 1st and the 7th district.

>>...we heard from Russell Fry, like you said, he's a current state representative who's challenging Tom Rice in the 7th Congressional District, and we heard from Katie Arrington.

She's a former state rep, and she's a former Republican nominee for that district back in 2018, as a Republican nominee.

She was also there.

She's challenging Nancy Mace, anything that stood out to you from what they were talking about there.

They kind of have different styles, but still kind of match their opponents energies in some ways.

What did you hear that stood out to you from those guys, Meg?

<Meg> Russell Fry is a self proclaimed dad joke aficionado, and so we did hear from him kind of a more laid back campaign style, which as you note is a little bit more of a match to Tom Rice.

We haven't ever known Tom Rice to be somebody who is very aggressive, overly antagonistic, and those are a lot of the traits that he told me in a recent interview, he's intending to just hammer home to his voters who have supported him for the past five terms in the 7th district, but for Russell Fry, he was adamant in his opposition to Tom Rice saying that he has not only opposed Donald Trump, which was at issue in this rally on Saturday primarily, but also according to Representative Fry hasn't really done right by the residents of the 7th district.

Again, a lot of that is tied to his opposition to Donald Trump his support for the impeachment vote that followed the January 6th insurrection, but again, Russell Fry was really just trying to make his case to voters who he was actually in the 7th district.

So, some of the people probably more so than 1st district voters, some of the people there were actually more so inclined to be some of his perhaps future constituents.

So again, Russell Fry making his case on a grand stage in front of a lot of people in a little bit more of a laid back style than what we heard from Katie Arrington.

>>...what did we hear from her?

...She was definitely wrapping up the crowd.

She was definitely playing into it.

She's a huge President Trump supporter, really just fired that crowd up there on that cold windy day.

<Meg> Katie Arrington had a lot of energy.

She brought out her own stool.

She is a diminutive woman.

And so she was adamant in telling us, you know, I always bring my own stool and climbing up to get to the level of the microphone, but she was very vocal in her opposition to Nancy Mace.

It's a lot of what we've heard in her campaign launch in her launch video, and some of the statements that she's made about why she opposes Nancy Mace.

Again, a lot of that goes back to Katie Arrington support for Donald Trump in her self avowed belief that he's the best president we've ever had, and perhaps we'll have again, according to her, and a lot of what she was doing was drawing a contrast between her and the person that she says Nancy Mace has become in terms of a congresswoman, she said, has gone against President Trump in her vocal opposition for his apparent role in the January 6th violence, and also...a lot of the things that she says that he did in the wake of that, that should not perhaps have been part of a presidency.

So Katie Arrington had strong words for Nancy Mace.

She called her several times, the Liz Cheney of the South, which got a lot of reaction from the crowd.

And Nancy Mace is also a pretty upbeat campaigner and an upbeat member of Congress herself.

And so like, you know, those styles pretty much match each other.

They're on the campaign trail in the 1st district.

<Gavin>...Meg, at this point, you're talking about what those opponents are doing right now, especially in that rally, which was just such a huge part of this current primary cycle?

What are we hearing from the incumbents, Nancy Mace and Tom Rice?

What are they doing?

How are they hitting back right now.

<Mace> Both of them issued statements in the aftermath of this rally, Again, making their arguments for voters that they are the best to continue on in representing them.

I think some of what we heard from Tom Rice in his own statement was perhaps a little bit more vocal than we've heard him, say in person in the past, but he is defending himself.

He told me that he's never seen himself as an aggressive person who needs to resort to overly aggressive tactics, in terms of campaigning, but it is clear that he is not going to back down and he is going to continue to argue to his voters.

I've supported a lot of issues that you all find important and valuable here in the 7th district, and that's what I would like to continue to do, all of this rhetoric aside.

Similar from Nancy Mace, she has consistently argued that she is the better candidate to uphold President Trump's policies, if not perhaps getting involved in some of the rhetoric that's taking place in the campaign trail arguments these days.

So, we've heard from both of them, I'm sure we we'll continue to hear a lot more.

There's still several months to go in terms of this primary campaign.

So, it's really only getting started.

<Gavin> Yeah, we definitely heard from Tom Rice saying you I took one vote.

He didn't like talking about the former president, and he's chosen to support a yes man candidate who has and will bow to anything he says no matter what.

So, really sharp words there from Tom Rice about Russell Fry, but when we look at the fundraising aspect of this Meg, that's one way we can kind of judge the closeness of this race, who's kind of becoming the dominant leader, but we're seeing the incumbents have the fundraising advantage right now, that could possibly change after what we saw happen this past weekend, with the Donald Trump with former President Donald Trump in town fundraisers off to the side of those events, of course, but what are we looking like right now?

Who's winning the money race?

<Meg> Certainly, both of the incumbents have the advantage in terms of the fundraising that's available to us.

Nancy Mace has amassed a war chest to this point of more than $3 million dollars.

That doesn't account for what's anticipated to be around $300,000 dollars she took in just, last week during a fundraiser with one of her top supporters, Former Governor... and UN Ambassador Nikki Haley.

We don't really have numbers from Katie Arrington, yet.

There hasn't been a filing deadline since she announced her campaign.

Again, we'll see what happened in the wake of last weekend.

The same goes for the 7th district.

Tom Rice has at the last count more than $1.3 million dollars raised for his reelect, whereas Russell Fry has $350,000.

Again, those are just as of the end of last year.

So, once we get the first quarter numbers in, we'll have a little bit better idea particularly of where these challengers stand, but also the incumbents, as well.

It's not unusual for incumbents to have a money advantage coming into these kinds of campaigns.

They may have leftovers from last year, and they've been able to fundraise consistently over their course of their year in office.

But again, I'm sure we'll see a lot of changing numbers when the first quarter comes to us.

<Gavin> Yes, and we expect them to use all that money likely, as these primaries ramp up in the next three months there, so.

Meg, really quick any other races you're watching that we should be aware of?

<Meg> Certainly, there is an active Democratic nomination process going on for the governor's race here in South Carolina.

Governor Henry McMaster, the Republican incumbent doesn't have an opponent in his own primary who's raising any money as of yet, but former Congressman Joe Cunningham and State Senator Mia McLeod, have been actively campaigning for quite some time on the Democratic side of things, and so that is definitely one of the races I'm watching.

Also on the Republican side for the education superintendent.

There are several candidates there and that will be an active one, as well.

<Gavin> June 14th.

It's right around the corner.

We'll be watching with Meg Kinnard of the Associated Press.

Thanks so much, Meg.

>> Thank you, Gavin.

<Gavin> To keep you updated throughout the week, check out the South Carolina Lede.

It's a podcast that I host twice a week that you can find on South Carolina public radio.org or wherever you find podcasts.

For South Carolina ETV.

I'm Gavin Jackson.

Be well, South Carolina.

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