[gentle guitar music] ♪ I set out on a narrow way it was many years ago ♪ ♪ Hoping I would find true love along that broken road ♪ ♪ But I got lost a time or two ♪ ♪ And I wiped my brow, I kept pushing through ♪ ♪ 'Cause I couldn't see how every sign ♪ ♪ Pointed straight to you ♪ ♪ That every long lost dream led me to where you are ♪ ♪ And others who broke my heart, ♪ ♪ Well, they were like Northern stars ♪ ♪ Pointing me on my way into your loving arms ♪ ♪ This much I know, ♪ ♪ I know it's true, ♪ ♪ That God blessed the broken road ♪ ♪ And led me straight to you.

♪ [gentle piano music] ♪ I think about the years I spent just passing through ♪ ♪ I'd like to take that time I lost and give it back to you ♪ ♪ But you just smile and you take my hand.

♪ ♪ 'Cause you've been there, you understand ♪ ♪ That it's all part of a grander plan ♪ ♪ That is coming true ♪ ♪ And every long lost dream led me to where you are ♪ ♪ And others who broke my heart, ♪ ♪ Well, they were like Northern stars, ♪ ♪ Pointing me on my way into your loving arms ♪ ♪ This much I know, I know, I know it's true ♪ ♪ That God blessed the broken road ♪ ♪ That led me straight to you.

♪ [gentle piano music] ♪ Now I'm just rolling home ♪ ♪ Into my lover's arms.

♪ ♪ This much I know, I know it's true ♪ ♪ That God blessed the broken road ♪ ♪ That led me straight to you.

♪ [gentle piano music] - Welcome to "The Songwriters."

I'm Ken Paulson and that was a great song by Marcus Hummon, "Bless the Broken Road."

Delighted to see you.

- Good to be here.

Thank you, Ken.

- Congratulations on your induction into the Nashville Songwriters Hall of Fame.

- It's wonderful.

- Your life's complete now.

- Yes it is, in a way, yeah, it can end, it can just end.

[laughter] - It's highly competitive, as you might imagine, in a- in a, in a town full of people, everyone who serves you a meal writes songs, and in here you are at the apex.

- Yeah, and I want to just like carry a sign around so that, you know, folks will know that would be great.

No.

It, it actually, the fact that your peers vote you into it, it's like that- It- It is, uh, uh- It is really a, a beautiful thing.

- I find it so remarkable that you've become this iconic country music songwriter who grew up anywhere but Alabama.

[laughter] Tell us about your early life and your travels.

- Yeah, I was- I'm a, a, a Foreign Service brat.

So, I was born in DC and my dad worked, uh, for- primarily for the agency for International Development.

So, it was a state department and he was, uh, you know, he worked in development and he and my mom, you know, took us kids to, uh, Tanzania, lived in Tanzania and, ah, Lagos, Nigeria, and the Philippines, and Saudi Arabia.

And then- then we would come back to the DC area like a lot of folks that are State Department kids do.

So, that- I had a- I had one of those kind of, uh, childhoods.

- Don't you think that that kind of early lifetime experience, sort of, broadens your view and allows you to be a more effective songwriter?

- I hope so.

- You've got so much more to draw on.

- I hope so.

I mean, I certainly think it broadens your view.

I mean, I think travel is the great teacher and, um, at least that- and, and now that my wife and I, Becca and I, we've tried to take our kids overseas too, for that very reason when, you know- But, you know, there we were also living- although we were living in American communities, so, it's not, you know, you're- there's still, um, it's still sort of, um, cloistered to some degree.

But, I'm very- I really appreciate that my folks, uh, were, uh, interested in taking us around the world.

And, I think, it has affected at least the variety of things I'm interested in.

- [laughs] - It also explains why there's a deficit of songs about halter tops and trucks in your, in your body of work.

- [laughter] - You write at a somewhat higher level the- - Well, I don't know if it's a higher level, I'm not sure.

- But, uh, anyway- [chuckles] - I was, uh, going back and looking at your back catalog and I've always admired you as an artist and have that 1995 first album, um, that, you, you put out, and, uh, "All In Good Time," - Mmmm.

And, I- one thing I was struck by was that- "Blessed The Broken Road" was on that.

- Yeah.

- And, uh- - "One Of These Days", yeah.

- "One Of These Days " - Yeah.

- And, and those would later become big hits for you.

- Yeah.

Yeah - Um, it brings to mind, in the most complimentary fashion possible, the first John Prine record, which that first record tells you everything you're going to need to know about John Prine for the rest of his career, - Yeah.

[chuckles] - ...and also showcases songs that we'd be listening to for the rest of his career.

- Yeah, that's right.

- And that's the case with yours- Is that sort of a matter of, um, it's 1995, here are the best songs I've written this far in my life, - Right.

- ...gonna put those on vinyl.

- Yes.

- And, and, and did you know those songs would one day emerge?

- No.

Uh, I did know that "One Of These Days" was the center of, you know, at the time I wanted to make a record, um, were the, that- "One Of These Days" would be, kind of, like the hub and the wheels, you, you know, the spokes would emanate from it.

I, I've thought about- I, I was- grew up in the 70s too, so, singer-songwriters, like, you know, an album was a painting.

It was this, it was this, ah, compilation of very- all these pieces were related.

And, you know, I wanted to paint the cover on my album, which I did, you know, I'm a painter, not a good one, but I'm a painter.

And so, I did, you know, and I had all those- I mean, I really, you know, the Cat Stevens, the Joanie's, the people like that, that were the folks that I admired, um.

So, a lot of the best songs I had were not all- there were some things which were left off, which I, you know, really wish hadn't been but overall I would say songs like, "All In Good Time" or, ah, "One Of These Days," and certainly, "Bless the Broken Road."

I knew that they were the best things that I had.

Ah, I just didn't know that they would actually ever become hits.

- What's interesting to me about "Bless the Broken Road" um, you have two co-writers - -Yeah.

-...on that record.

- Uh, including Jeff Hanna of the Dirt Band- - Right.

- And, I think they recorded first, right?

- They did.

Yeah.

- So they recorded it and it gets recorded several more times.

- Several times.Yeah.

- And what makes it a hit in the hands of Rascal Flatts?

Well, they did- first of all, they did it just a brilliant, a brilliant job.

I mean, it's, uh, um, it's one of my favorite recordings.

Ah, they also, ah, stayed true to the composition- So, the composition- So, Jeff and I really wrote the song but Bobby was- had inspired the idea behind the song in a conversation that he and I had.

So, uh, and I had started the song, um, on piano and it has a very, ah, it has a, a kind of, a very specific piano part which you heard earlier and, uh- but the original recording the Dirt Band did it on guitar and didn't have quite the same character.

So, eventually, I mean, when I would do it, and it would not be released, but I would do it, you know, on piano.

And at the time I'd been writing with Rascal Flatts had a few cuts on other records of theirs and they simply knew the song.

And the song had begun to have a life of its own even before it became a hit.

Um, and I think partly because it just spoke to the way relationships are in our time that people get married later, they have relationships before they're even married that are marri- marriage like- ah, second marriages, third marriages, and, ah, we didn't plan on that, but I think we just, sort of, tapped into to something but the recording by Rascal Flatts is just absolutely gorgeous and, um, and I think that they, you know, I think it's been a really beautiful thing for them.

It certainly has for me and Jeff, and Bobby, you know.

- Um, when you hear the record, the fifth version of this- - Yeah.

- Do you go, "Yep, that, that's going to be a hit?"

- Yeah.

I have to say, you know, people, ah, songwriters were- we're terrible liars about different things.

Ah, sometimes, you know, for- to, to progress our own careers, you know, someone will say, "Oh, you like that?"

And we're like, "Oh that's fantastic" and we don't.

But in that case, I remember, ah, when I first heard the recording and it was a pull off as they say in our business the pull off the side of the road thing, I pulled off and I was just like they, you know, they nailed it, they just killed it.

I think part of it was too for me I personally like recordings that are sparse.

I like a space in recordings.

That's not something which is- you hear a lot of today.

Things are very compressed, and there, you know, you'll have five electric guitars on a, on a composition.

In that recording you could really hear Gary sing and the piano was very, Gordan Munce's piano was very clear, the acoustic guitar, everything was separate, it was just gorgeous.

- And, um, I suppose there are times when you hear a record that's perfect and it doesn't happen.

- Yeah.

- But this one certainly did.

- Yeah.

Yeah.

There had been- I had a song, a song that was a hit, um, called, "Born to Fly."

It was a tune that I wrote with Sara Evans and Darrell Scott.

With Darrell being one of the great songwriters and one of the great musicians in the world, actually, roots musicians.

And, I remember when Paul Worley cut the song and, and I knew that the label was serious about the song but I didn't know that they ever thought it would be a single.

And I remember, I got to play guitar on it, and then Darrell got to play mandolin, and they had this great session, and we're playing it, and it, it's so good, like, the recording is so good.

I remember when, when it ended, I remember Darrell and I walk out of the studio and I turned to Darrell and I said, "That was amazing.

"That, that just confirms "they're never going to put that out."

-[laughs] - "They will never put that song out."

And, of course, it was first single, it was the title of the album, it's the name of her book, of her memoirs, you know, and she and I be- become friends for many years partly because of that song.

Yeah.

- I think, It's begging us to be played right now.

- Play a little piece of it.

Yeah.

- Yeah.

- Let's see.

[guitar music] ♪ I've been tellin' my dreams to the scarecrow ♪ ♪ Of the places that I'd like to see.

♪ ♪ I said, "Friend, do you think I'll ever get there?"

♪ ♪ He just stands there, smilin' back at me ♪ ♪ So I confess my sins to the preacher ♪ ♪ Of the love I've been waiting to find.

♪ ♪ Is there a brown eyed girl in my future.

♪ ♪ He says, "Son, you got nothing but time."

♪ ♪ How do you wait for heaven?

♪ ♪ Who has that much time?

♪ ♪ How do you keep your feet on the ground ♪ ♪ When you know ♪ ♪ You were born ♪ [strumming guitar] ♪ You were born to fly.

♪ - [chuckles] - That should have been a big pop hit too.

- A pop hit?

Yeah.

- Did it, did it cross at all?

- No, I don't- No.

It never did.

But, you know, ah, hope springs eternal, so, ah, you know.

- It's buoyant.

- Yeah.

It's fun to play too.

It's actually, um, fun to play with other people too.

One of those songs.

- I want to take you back, Marcus, to 1995, I don't wanna lose sight of that album.

- Right?

- You had another huge record, huge song come out of that, "One Of These Days."

- Yeah.

- Recorded, uh, by Tim McGraw, giant hit.

- I assume that's another good record.

- Yes.

- In your, in your- - Yeah.

Beautiful record.

- Um, where'd the song come from and can we ask, you just to play a little bit of that to refresh people's memories?

- Yeah, it just came from, kind of, ah, a sense of the power of forgiveness, ah, the power of coming clean, the power of grace in our lives.

That's, you know, that's a, a very important theme in, in my life, and, in some of my wife's work and, and our family and how I grew up.

I'll play just a wee bit of it here.

[guitar music] ♪ Used to chase that boy home from school ♪ ♪ Called him freckled face redheaded fool.

♪ ♪ He was different.

♪ ♪ He wasn't cool like me.

♪ ♪ Sticks and stones didn't break any bones ♪ ♪ But we, we never left well enough alone ♪ ♪ And one day he ran away from home you see.

♪ ♪ And I passed him as he walked away.

♪ ♪ And in his eyes I heard him say ♪ ♪ He said, ♪ ♪ One of these days you're gonna love me ♪ ♪ You'll sit down by yourself and think ♪ ♪ About the time you pushed and shoved me ♪ ♪ What good friends we might have been ♪ ♪ Then you're gonna sigh a little ♪ ♪ Maybe even cry a little but ♪ ♪ But one of these days you're gonna love me.

♪ [guitar music fades] - Very nice.

Very powerful song.

- Thank you, Ken.

- There have to be people who have come up to you and said, "That song really hit me."

- Yeah.

I mean, that, that I, you know, that one uh- there are a couple others, but I think "Bless The Broken Road" probably has a listen more conversation and it, it's by virtue of the fact that it, it's, it's, ah, pretty well-known and, and it gets done on, like, um, you know, the shows like the Voice and stuff- And, and, so, it sort of stays alive and, and, ah, but, ah, there have been two or three might have been blessed in that, in that regard.

It was one of the things that I know songwriters love.

They love it, um, If people take the song into their lives and, and, and it makes it, you know, the song becomes very specific to that individual and not necessarily exactly what you meant even.

[laughs] - Well, I want to take you on a little tangent.

- Okay.

- Because we're talking about incredibly popular songs, all lasting about three minutes.

- Yes.

- And in recent years you have been writing- uh, I don't- I'm not sure I can call them more ambitious, but certainly song- works that are larger in scope, reflect history, reflect art and culture.

And, I'm struck by the fact, when I go to your website.

- Mmm.

- I see these words.

- Yeah, uh-huh.

- Music, Theater, Art, Faith, Justice.

- Yes.

- What does that tell us about Marcus Hummon?

- He's, ah, a confused man and he's not somebody you should give a publishing deal to.

No.

I, I love, I love, ah, the variety, um, you know, I, I stay, um, involved as a songwriter.

You know, I just turned sixty and, ah, but I stay involved because I have a lot of diverse, ah, ways to approach, you know, songs.

And for me, also, when I stopped recording, when I stopped being an artist in the sense of like touring all the time, and trying to get, you know, trying to make, you know, that the center of my career, I realized that I could do independent records, I could write with artists, I could give songs to people.

And then, the artist in me was fed by these narratives which I would generally create, or historical characters, which I love to look at and, and to focus on and then challenge myself compositionally.

And, and then move into ensemble work and choral work.

Um, and that really has kept, I mean- I always stay involved in the popular song because it's the building block of all of it.

Um, but, you know, I've been nurtured by, ah, my- you know, I have a lot of diverse thoughts and feelings and interests.

And, and I like to turn them into music.

- Can you tell us a little bit about "American Prophet?'

- Yeah.

Well, "Prophet," yeah.

I, I have had several, uh, musicals and a couple of, ah, opera or folk operas, um, through a composed work.

But, um, and a lot of times I'm, I'm a bit of a history buff and so, you know, have some different characters that I've been focused on.

And, um, I was actually commissioned to write something about the prophetic many years ago, ah, by the, ah, Anglican- the Episcopal Cathedral in Nashville.

And, I wanted to work, ah, I thought of Frederick Douglass as a prophetic character.

I'm not alone in that idea, um, but that began, um, several iterations of a piece, which now I, I- you know, now I work with Charles Randolph-Wright.

who's a great director and writer, ah, film and theater and TV.

Ah, and, ah, we really focused on Frederick um, his, sort of, ascendancy to position of being, you know, a great prophetic character, um, in American history in the 1850s, 60s, and 70s.

And that, ah, I just think he's an extraordinary voice for the hope of democracy in our, in our, in our time.

- And Jim Thorpe was another.

- And Thorpe was, ah, for me, Thorpe- I was, I'm an ex, uh, high school and college football player and, ah, very interested in Native American studies and, and Thorpe was a guy that, kind of, a guy born before Wounded Knee who then, you know, effectively becomes the beginning of the NFL, you know, he is, he is the first president of what became the NFL and an almost Mythic character both extraordinary but also tragic in some ways.

So, I thought that's a fantastic, um, idea for a, a musical with, you know, you may think, "Wow, those are terrible ideas for musicals."

[laughter] - A, ah, I am struck by, you know, the history of Broadway 30s and 40s was everything came from Broadway into the pop charts.

- Yeah, that's right, yeah, that was a different model that- - Narratives and historical stories were not, not foreign to music.

- Yeah.

- I am, I'm curious though when you have a show off Broadway as you have- - Yeah.

- Um, or on the Arena Stage in DC- - Right.

- And you have just watched a performance of your work and, and, and there all these people, they're applauding wildly and you've, you've touched their hearts, and moved them to a place they might not have otherwise gone, has to be a rush.

- Yeah.

- How does it- that compare to the rush of a hit record?

- Oh, yeah, they're, they're different.

I, uh, they're both, it's an extraordinary thing, you know, to have a hit record is, um, it's really kind of magical.

I mean, you feel like you've just been- like lightning has hit you.

I mean, I don't, I think partly because as the songwriter is so often what you hear is, "No, it's just no" you know, "It's not right, it's not working."

or "It's, ah, it's really Murphy's Law."

And then when it, when it does happen it, it, t's just like let the light has just shined upon you and you just bask in it.

And, and you should you should really enjoy it if that ever happens in your life.

The thing with, ah, with theater is that it's- I remember, I think the first time I had a regional piece was called, "Francis of Guernica," this was back in the 90s, and it was a, a piece, sort of, about, it was kind of a play that then someone thought of it in terms of an idea in- that's also told in opera.

But it's about the painting of Guernica by Picasso and, and how it affected this young American who's studying at the Sorbonne.

And, uh, I remember sitting in the theater watching this beautiful production, the Tennessee Rep had done and I just felt, you know, just emotional, cried, you know, I just- it was hard to describe to see that much of yourself, that much of your work as a writer, because in that piece I'd written by myself, you know, and all the things that I was thinking about in terms of art and aesthetics, and, and it's all played out in the, you know, in a theater company sometimes it's like a love affair.

I mean, you know, the peak, the kids are, everyone's so excited and they're, they're, you know, emoting, and, and there's beautiful set design- It's extraordinary.

And, ah, you know, I've never, I mean, whether, you know, whether I, I'm perceived as a great success in theater I can't say, but I have had a great time.

and that, and that's what it was about.

Yeah.

- I can't let you go without, ah, dipping into your catalog one more time.

- Oh, yeah, yeah.

- One of the biggest hits by The Dixie Chicks a song called, "Cowboy Take Me Away."

- I'll have to tune here for you, Ken.

- And, and, ah, was that written for The Dixie Chicks?

- Yeah.

We actually wrote Martie, ah, Martie MaGuire.

Martie's the fiddling sister.

Um, yeah, and, I was working on the album "Fly" with them and I had written "Ready To Run" with, ah, Martie and I played guitar on it and, um, ah, you know, I really love those girls I mean, those women, and they were, ah, you know, maybe the mo- perhaps the most talented group I have- ever been in contact with- I mean, top to bottom- and, uh, and having a great time.

And, ah, yeah, so, we'd gotten together to write and what it really was about was that she wanted to write something for her sister who, ah, was actually marrying a cowboy.

It- also a country singer but it turns out, actually- and, ah, my little funny story about that, it's a true story, I've told it a number of times but- when she suggested the title she said she'd saved the title for me, she wanted to write a song for their wedding, like they're going to perform it at the wedding.

And at that time they were really becoming very famous.

Of course, I really wanted to write this title because I was, I'd feel like I'd get inside the family, you know, you can imagine.

You know, you're talking about, you know, millions of records being sold and I was, like, "Oh, definitely, you know, tell me the name of this- "you know, this- give me your title."

And, I literally, it's actually true that I thought she said, "Calgon, take me away."

- [laughter] - That's a true story and I, I literally sat there.

I was very disappointed, you know, and I was like, I was like, "Well, I mean, "so this will be a parody like we're coming clean?"

And I remember her looking to me and, ah, she goes, "No, no, no.

No, Emily's marrying a cowboy."

And I literally remember thinking, "Oh, thank goodness," you know, and, ah, and it, and it was cool because she had this, this little beginning of a melody and I had literally, ah, ah, just a few lines I'd started in a, kind of, book of lyrics and we sat down and we did that thing where we- she started to play and I started to sing, and we were going back and forth and the whole thing, I kid you not, was probably written in 15 minutes.

- So, two lessons for aspiring songwriters.

- Yeah.

- First of all, get hearing aids if you need them.

- Get hearing aids.

[chuckles] - Yeah.

[chuckles] - And the other is try to write a song for a member of the family.

- Absolutely.

Absolutely.

- Very shrewd of you.

- Um, take us away, Marcus.

- Okay.

- It's a pleasure.

- Thank you, Ken.

- Thanks.

Good to be with you again.

[guitar music] ♪ I want to touch the Earth, ♪ ♪ Break it in my hands.

♪ ♪ I want to grow something wild and unruly.

♪ ♪ I want to sleep on the hard ground ♪ ♪ In the comfort of your arms ♪ ♪ On a pillow of bluebonnets ♪ ♪ A blanket made of stars.

♪ ♪ Oh, it sounds good to me ♪ ♪ She said, "Cowboy, take me away" ♪ ♪ Fly this girl as high as you can ♪ ♪ Into the wild blue ♪ ♪ Set me free, Oh I pray.

♪ ♪ Closer to heaven above and closer to you.

♪ ♪ Closer to you.

♪ [guitar music fades] [gentle guitar music] [gentle guitar music] - For more information about the Nashville Songwriters Hall of Fame, please visit, nashvillesongwriters foundation.com