I am Gabriela Baldo.

What I like most about When Two Feathers Fell From The Sky is I really like the idea of a woman riding a horse and just diving into a pool for her job, especially back then, during those times just because women were expected to clean, cook, and like can vegetables and stuff like that.

So I thought it was like, kind of like she was like, like something, someone different.

So I kind of was excited to like read like the rest of her story type of thing and... Margaret Verble's writing style is a narrative writing style.

She's very compassionate and sensitive to her characters, and you see that when she does go into detail for each of her characters and explains like who they are and what they're going through.

I'm Holly Jackson.

Join us as we bring you powerful stories from both new and established southern authors as we sit By The River.

♪ opening music ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ Major funding for By The River is provided by the ETV Endowment of South Carolina.

For more than 40 years, the ETV Endowment of South Carolina has been a partner of South Carolina ETV and South Carolina Public Radio.

Additional funding is provided by the USCB Center for the Arts Osher Lifelong Learning Institute at USCB and the Pat Conroy Literary Center.

It is such a beautiful day here at our low country studio in beautiful Beaufort, South Carolina.

We are By The River.

I'm your host, Holly Jackson and this is part of our love letter to southern writing bringing you powerful stories from both new and established southern writers, and we are here today with the author of When Two Feathers Fell From the Sky, Margaret Verble, and Margaret, thank you so much for joining us.

I'm excited about this conversation because the little time we got to talk beforehand, I've already enjoyed it and have so many questions that I'm storing up so that we can ask them whenever we hit airtime.

Tell us a little bit about yourself and kind of what brings you here.

<Margaret> Well First of all, thank you for having me.

<Holly> Absolutely.

<Margaret> I appreciate it, and what brings me here is y'all inviting me down here and so I came.

<Holly> Right, and your first trip to Beaufort - <Margaret> First trip to Beaufort.

I've enjoyed Charleston, Savannah, you know all my life it seems like I've never been to Beaufort, so I'm excited to be here and... <Holly> Had a good meal, fried oysters.

<Margaret> Had oysters last night, and it was great.

<Holly> Well, good.

And you as a writer, when did the, when did the stories begin?

<Margaret> Well, the stories really began sort of in midlife.

You know, I have had a successful business for a long time and, but it just got to where I just, my fingers itched and I just had to start writing no matter how busy I was, and so I...did that and...that was, that started, I guess you know, 25 years ago and has been going every day since then.

<Holly> Every day.

<Margaret> Everyday.

<Holly> What's your writing process?

<Margaret> Well, I get up in the morning, I have breakfast and then I sit down and I write and I write almost until the bucket is empty.

And then I go about my day and then I do the same thing, the next day, and I do that seven days a week.

<Holly> Wow, and this is something that started midlife.

That's interesting.

It wasn't, whenever you were a child this wasn't something that, <Margaret> No.

<Holly> crossed your mind.

<Margaret> Well, it did cross my mind but making a living crossed my mind too.

<Holly> Right.

<Margaret> And writers are notoriously poor, and I decided that I was just going to have to make a living, and so I did, and I was successful at doing that, and you get sort of wound up in, or I got wound up in my business and really was working full speed ahead for a long time on that.

<Holly> Talk about Two Feathers and introduce us to the characters of this book.

<Margaret> Well, When Two Feathers Fell from the Sky is my third published novel and it's set in Nashville, and I was raised in Nashville and I was raised in Nashville in a neighborhood.. that was built over the remains of an old Park Zoo.

And you could see that zoo had been gone for a couple of decades but you could see the remains of it in that neighborhood, and of course as children.

That was fascinating.

<Holly> What are some of those examples?

<Margaret> Well, for instance, a trolley line ran out from Nashville to that Park Zoo.

It was, it's actually called a trolley park.

<Holly> Okay.

>> And there were trolley parks outside of the major progressive cities all over the country.

And this is was one outside of Nashville, and it was built out there actually by the electricity company because they wanted a way to...have people use electricity on the weekends because people in the outskirts of towns didn't have electricity at first, in the 1880s, 1890s.

electricity was confined to the mid parts of the cities.

So the, so electricity companies really all over the country, created these trolley parks that they could run electric trolley lines out to.

Okay, and then use electricity that way.

It was the original impetus for it.

So, but anyway, the... park zoo had been there and the...trees of the trolley lines were still there.

I walked through the trees to get to my grade school, my elementary school which was the Glendale Elementary School.

<Holly> And you all knew the history at this point of what you were walking amongst?

<Margaret> We knew, yeah.

<Holly> Okay.

>> We knew because the adults knew.

<Holly> Okay.

>> The adults would say that's where the old trolley line went or that's where the hippopotamus cage was, or.

<Holly> This sounds so wild.

<Margaret> I know.

It was great.

And so as we got older, we realized or I realized that this also this same land was part of the Battle of Nashville.

So part of Civil War had been fought on that very land, and occasionally kids would we would find mini balls or, you know, when when our fathers were turning up their gardens there'd be a mini ball there or something a relic from the Civil War.

So we knew the Civil War had been fought there.

We also knew that there were Indian graves somewhere around or had been Indian graves somewhere around.

I was really aware of that because I, my mother's family was all out in Oklahoma.

We were the only ones not in Oklahoma and they're all Cherokees.

And so I was always attuned to the fact that there were Indian graves around there.

I did not realize until I started writing the book that actually the neighborhood was built on top of a necropolis of 4,000 Indian graves.

<Holly> Wow.

<Margaret> So, you know, all of this history sitting right there.

My first two books were set in Oklahoma, but I was actually raised in Nashville and I always wanted to write about Nashville and I always wanted to write about that zoo, and I also wanted to write about the history as I learned it growing up of...Middle Tennessee, because that history, if you...read it we were first introduced to it in the fourth grade and my mother's a fourth grade teacher, and that history was the history of Fort Nashborough and how all these, you know, White settlers had come and they were, you know, just raising their corn and shooting their buffalo and trying to get along, and then all these savage Indians were for no reason at all, kept attacking them.

And, you know, I had a large Indian family out in Oklahoma and even as a 10 year old child I understood there was something wrong with that.

history.

<Holly> Right.

>> That was complete, you know, just shocking to me, and it always bothered me and it stayed bothering me, bothering me, and as I grew older, I read more and more of that history and so I wanted to write about that too.

So I've incorporated all of that into this book.

<Holly> The park in itself seems to be a story that's just begging to be told.

<Margaret> Absolutely.

Absolutely.

<Holly> You've got... to write about that especially if you experienced and knew - lived among yourself.

So tell me about your research process.

Was there a lot of going back home and getting back into the elements?

or how did that go?

<Margaret> Well, I did go to Nashville two or three times during the course of researching this book, but I go to Nashville all the time, so that's not unusual.

<Holly> Okay.

>> And I'm very familiar with some of the places like there's a mansion in this book.

I grew up, that mansion was in ruins when I was a child, and I grew up scuttling around it looking at it and looking at the ruins, and it's, it's very well maintained now.

It's owned by David Lipscomb University, but at the time it was not well maintained.

And, but at the time book's set, it's a mansion that can, they can have 600 people for dinner.

I mean, you know, it's no small place.

So, you know, I went back and looked at that kind of thing, but I also went into the archives of the Nashville, Tennesseen because this...trolley park and the zoo came after the park was already established.

That had about a 50 year period, and I wanted to know, well, where in that 50 year period do I want to set this book?

What time, what year do I want to set this book?

So I had to make some decisions about that.

And I went through the...archives of the National Tennesseen, which are online and you can subscribe to and spend several months reading articles about that park zoo and about the people who worked there and some of which are real people.

The book is in part based on the lives of real people.

And...so I did that kind of research.

I also went back and read some about the history of Nashville, the history of Middle Tennessee.

So, <Holly> All these things that are digitized sure make life easier for the author doing research these days.

<Margaret> Absolutely.

Yeah.

But there's also, you know, there are good books about, about the history of Nashville <Holly> During this time, maybe during the writing process or even after the book was published, Have you reconnected with any of those people who you lived in that neighborhood with?

<Margaret> Well, I am still friends with those people.

<Holly> Oh great.

<Margaret> One night, it wasn't a question of reconnecting, <Holly> Okay.

>> with them I have friends...from, well the book is dedicated not only to my father, but to a man who was my next door neighbor, and we became friends when we were four years old.

<Holly> Oh.

<Margaret> and we're still friends.

<Holly> Yes.

>> And I still have a lot of friends in Nashville.

In fact, I'll be in Nashville in, you know in about four weeks.

<Holly> Okay.

Very cool.

I tell some of the viewers here on this show this...I've told them this before but I've got four young children and so much of my reading is on the road, through audio books, and so I'm always curious about whenever I hear the voice and I think, oh, what a neat voice.

How does that process go for the author?

Does the author pick who reads a book?

Or is that selected by some I don't know, audio book company?

I don't, how does that go?

<Margaret> You know, I don't know if I should tell this on TV, (laughter) but I'm going to.

Okay?

<Holly> Okay.

Let's do it.

<Margaret> I was not happy with the recordings of the audio books of my first two novels.

<Holly> Okay.

<Margaret> And I had it inserted into my contract for this novel that I had control over who read it.

<Holly> Okay.

>> And that I had the option to read it myself if I so desired.

<Margaret> Well...at the time my first two books were published by... H.M.H.

<Holly> Okay.

<Margaret> And which was bought by Harper Collins in the process of this book coming out.

Harper Collins is a big publisher.

<Holly> Right.

>> And so when we got to the audio part of it they said, okay, we're gonna have so-and-so do the audio.

And I said, Uh-uh.

<Holly> Wait a minute.

<Margaret> Wait, wait, wait, wait <Holly> Let's go back to the contract.

<Margaret> And I...we went back and forth and I said take a look at the contract and the contract read.

She's got control of this.

<Holly> Right.

<Margaret> So they were stunned, but they complied of course with the contract.

and they,...but they didn't they really wanted a professional person to read it, and I wanted a professional person to read it.

I didn't want to have to read it.

<Holly> Right.

>> I just wanted to have to read it if they were gonna slaughter the the language of the book and the accent, and you know, people in New York do not know how people in the South talk.

It's a fact.

Bless their hearts.

<Holly> Right.

<Margaret> You know, they just don't, and they sent me a bunch of samples and they, you know, they did not, they were aw-, they were awful, and so they sent me some more and they were still pretty bad.

So I thought, how am I gonna explain to them how people in Nashville talk?

And I thought about that for two or three days and I thought, well, this book's set in 1926 what Nashvillian was famous that would've been alive in 1926, that...these that people in that who, who we might have recordings of, and the answer was Dinah Shore.

So I went to YouTube, I found the when Dinah Shore was on, This is Your Life.

So she's talking in her real voice.

And I sent that to New York and I said this is what these people sound like.

And they were able to find somebody who could do that.

That is such an interesting story.

<Holly> Talk about why it meant so much to you to get it right in that aspect.

<Margaret> Well, it's a book about the South and I think most Southerners are, can get a little offended by people who are trying to do Southern accents.

You know what I'm saying?

<Holly> Right, right, right.

>> You know what I'm saying?

And I did not want to offend my southern readers, and I also wanted to be able to bear to listen to it myself.

<Holly> Right.

>> And, you know sometimes I hear these Southern accents and I.

<Holly> You know, when it's real, and when It's not.

>> Oh, I just cringe.

I just can't stand it.

<Holly> Well, you said that you... would have done it yourself if needed, but why did you choose not to, with the time and labor that goes into it?

<Margaret> Well, it's labor.

It's time.

It's, I'd rather be writing <Holly> Sure.

>> than talking.

<Holly> Right.

>> So, you know, if I could get a professional and of course I respect other people's professional expertise.

They just have to be able to get that accent right.

<Holly> Talk about some of the heavy topics that you cover in this book, and there's some, some strong emotion.

Talk about those that come out in this book in particular.

<Margaret> Well, this is a book, this is ultimately a book about racism but it's a book about racism... in a way that the Atlanta Constitution, when they reviewed the book, said that it gives us hope for future.

It's not a, you know, let's bang everybody on the head about racism.

But I was interested in showing that people can get along and negotiate with each other and have deep friendships with each other.

And I, you know, I was raised in a biracial family that we had everybody in my family from full blood American Indians to full blood, White people and all the rest of us in between, and we all got along well, - we had family fights.

<Holly> Sure.

>> but they were never about race.

<Holly> Right.

>> And so it, getting along with people of different races just seemed like natural to me.

I...I've never known any other way to live.

So this has always been the thing.

This has always been in my head, and I...believe it should be in all of our heads that we all should be able to get along with each other.

So, my main character, Two Feathers, her best friend, Hank Crawford is an African American, and you know, they're... perfectly good buddies, you know, and you know, there's...a lot of crossing of racial lines there that I think seem natural in the book.

<Holly> Did the timing of the book, was it, did it have anything to do with the climate of our nation or was it coincidental?

Because you did mention that it was something that you always wanted to tell.

So...how about the timing of the book?

<Margaret> It was purely coincidental.

Yeah.

Although, you know, I...think that we I mean we're living in racially fraught times now but we've been living in them for, <Holly> Decades.

>> Decades.

<Holly> Sure.

>>You know, forever.

<Holly> Right, right.

<Margaret> You know, it's... it's hotter right now.

<Holly> Right.

>> And less polite, but, you know, it's, it's a perpetual problem of how do we all get along with each other and, you know, it's something that we need to solve.

<Holly> What kind of response have you gotten on that end whenever you're out speaking about the book?

You know, I... get good responses from it and I've gotten, gotten good and I've been very pleased.

I've gotten good reviews from...newspapers in the South...and progressive newspapers in the South, and you know, I think people I think people appreciate being able to read about... our racial situation without being beaten to death by it.

And I think that's a relief to people.

<Holly> Right.

Tell us what's next.

<Margaret> Well, you know, I have a new book out.

It's called Stealing and...

I'm pretty high on it, you know.

<Holly> Can you give us a little tease what it's about?

<Margaret> Yeah, It's about a young Cherokee.

The protagonist is a 11 year old Cherokee little girl who who gets into her family, gets into trouble and she winds up in a Christian boarding school, and it's written from her point of view.

<Holly> Okay, Yeah.

This is a question I haven't asked in a few seasons.

It used to be one of my favorites.

But you said that you, you wake up and you write every day.

Are we typing or are we actually writing?

<Margaret> Oh, well we're typing on a computer.

<Holly> Okay.

Yeah.

There are some who get out that legal pad still.

It amazes me.

<Margaret> I know and I couldn't, you know that'd be too slow for me.

I can't do that.

<Holly> And you're putting in hours a day you said?

<Margaret> Well, yeah.

Well, I just...wrote for an hour this morning because I, you know, I'm over here doing this.

<Holly> Right.

<Margaret> TV program.

>> Right.

<Margaret> But generally I put in a couple hours every morning on it.

<Holly> Yeah.

Please talk about the... award that you've won, the biggest one and how you got to that point and how much it meant to you.

We certainly want to.

<Margaret> So, you're talking about being the finalist for the Pulitzer Prize for Fiction.

<Holly> Yes, yes.

<Margaret> Well, my first novel won that.

It was a- <Holly> I failed to mention that that should've been right at the open cause that's a big deal.

>> Maud's line.

It was a finalist for the Pulitzer Prize in 2016.

It was a complete surprise.

First novels rarely achieve that in the first place, and secondly, that novel hadn't gotten it hadn't been promoted the way it should have been promoted frankly, and so it hadn't gotten a lot of notice, and do you want me to tell the story of how I found out that it had won?

I...can do that.

<Holly> Sure, let's do that.

Just a couple minutes, but I wanted to make sure we mention that.

>> All right, well, I was in my basement sitting in the computer writing an email, and the telephone rang and I looked on the caller ID, and it was my agent's office and I always pick up the phone for my agent, of course.

<Holly> Sure.

<Margaret>...her assistant was on the phone and she, she said, Margaret, you know, I'm Ms. Hannah.

I'm, you know, Lynn wants to talk to you.

Have you heard?

And I said, you know, I don't.

I have no idea what you're talking about, and she said, well, I don't wanna tell you.

Lynn wants to tell you.

Okay, so.

<Holly> and these calls, I'm like, Spit it out.

I need to know.

Right.

<Margaret> Lynn, Lynn Nesbit, who is my agent, I mean, you know she's like the top agent in New York, and she gets on the phone and she says, Margaret, she says first thing I want you to know is you have not won this prize.

<Holly> Okay.

(laughs) <Margaret> I said...Lynn, I have no idea what you're talking about.

She says, well, let me tell you.

She says, you are a finalist for the Pulitzer Prize.

And she said, the...this is the way the Pulitzer works, and she told me the process for the Pulitzer, and which is in short, I won't go through the entire thing here, but the process is, is that they announce the winner and two finalists both on the same day.

<Holly> Okay.

>> All right And that's...unlike other literary prizes.

<Holly> Okay.

>>...and she said, and she told me who the winner was and she said, you're one of the two finalists, and she says, even though you did not win this prize she said, this is gonna change your life.

<Holly> Right.

<Margaret> And she was right.

<Holly> Mmm Hmm!

That's a big deal.

<Margaret> Yeah.

It was a big deal.

<Holly> Congratulations.

<Margaret> Thank you.

<Holly> And you did great.

I...see the clock went zero.

(laughs) <Margaret> Boom!

<Holly> You're great on timing.

All right.

Well, Margaret Verble, thank you so much for coming here and spending a few days in Beaufort.

I hope you fall in love like the rest of us do.

<Margaret> Yeah.

<Holly> And thank you all everybody for joining us for By The River.

I'm your host, Holly Jackson.

We hope that you'll join us next time right here By The River.

♪ closing music ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ Major funding for By The River is provided by the ETV Endowment of South Carolina for more than 40 years The ETV Endowment of South Carolina has been a partner of South Carolina ETV and South Carolina Public Radio.

Additional funding is provided by the USCB Center for the Arts Osher Lifelong Learning Institute at USCB and the Pat Conroy Literary Center.

♪