- [Narrator] Funding for this edition of Think Tank with Steve Adubato has been provided by New Jersey Children’s Foundation.

Giving all Newark students the opportunity to achieve.

Robert Wood Johnson Foundation.

Working for a more a healthier, more equitable New Jersey.

Valley Bank.

Atlantic Health System.

Making healthy easier.

The Turrell Fund, a foundation serving children.

NJ Best, New Jersey’s five-two-nine college savings plan.

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The Fidelco Group.

And by The Adler Aphasia Center.

Promotional support provided by Meadowlands Media.

A print and digital business news network.

And by New Jersey Globe.

[MOTIVATIONAL MUSIC] - Hi, everyone, Steve Adubato.

We kick off the program with a really important conversation with two leaders making a difference.

First, Dr. Jeanette Betancourt, Senior Vice President for U.S. Social Impact at Sesame Workshop, you know, Sesame Street, Sesame Workshop.

Maria Spina, also with us, Manager of PSEG Foundation and Corporate Social Responsibility.

Maria and Jeanette, good to see you.

- Good to see you, Steve.

- Nice to see you, Steve.

- You got it.

Maria, tee this up.

There's a partnership between the PSEG Foundation, one of our longtime underwriters, and the Sesame Street Workshop.

What's the partnership, and what impact is it having?

Please, Maria.

- Yeah, Steve, this partnership is actually longstanding.

It's been just about 10 years now since the Foundation really has been working with Sesame on a number of materials focused very much after Hurricane Sandy, specifically with programs that focused on emergency preparedness and disaster preparedness, and then it sort of evolved from there into the recent program, the Little Neighbors Program, which is focused on environmental sustainability.

But the beauty about all of these programs is that childhood education, in simple fundamental steps, is weaved throughout these programs, all of those social-emotional learning aspects that are so important to children, to young people, to families, and to our communities.

- So as Maria lays this out, Dr. Betancourt, we're putting up some information for people to find out more on the websites, the Little Neighbors Program, make it real for us in terms of impact.

Please, Doctor.

- Little Neighbors, the program, what it allows us is to bring early childhood and the importance of young children in the community, so in this phase of our work together, it is basically how young children are part of a team, part of a community, and in fact, the title, Little Neighbors, really emphasizes that.

One of the things that we've done is actually created resources, and particularly, four wonderful animations.

One shows where we have a community garden, and this kind of a rough wind that happens, and Abby, her family, and her Sesame Street friends- - Wait.

Can we, can we tell everyone who Abby is?

'Cause Abby's a key figure.

- Oh, Abby is Elmo's friend, - Yeah.

- and we see that they are always together, and really a wonderful, wonderful partnership and friendship for two wonderful Muppet friends on Sesame Street.

- Yeah.

So go back.

Abby's in the garden.

Go ahead.

- Abby's in the garden, and it's the next day, and they're working together as a community to again rebuild that garden, and what we're seeing is the contributions of young children as not only teammates, but also as part of a community and a neighborhood.

We have other animations, where, for example, Julia is helping with her mom, and Julia is a wonderful, autistic Muppet on Sesame Street, as well, and she and her mom are working at the community center, and doing, again, working together with the community drive, and how they are contributing.

We have another one where our Muppets are helping the Twiddlebugs build a little playground, and also another one where we have a new resident in Sesame Street, and it's that Little Bird, and Elmo, and Abby are helping them build a little bird house.

So what we're seeing is that connection and power of early childhood and young children, and the value that we need to place on the fact that in our communities, young children are not only part of the neighborhood, but they're key contributors at an early age to the community.

- I like how Jeanette said this.

Maria, let me ask you, Dr. Betancourt talks, really, about, it's called environmental awareness, but is it?

It's more than awareness, isn't it, Maria?

It's action.

Please.

- It certainly is.

And you know, the interesting thing is, some of the ways we're seeing our partners work with the program is by incorporating it into the classroom in family outreach programs, so it's really ensuring that children are actively engaged with the activities that bring it to life for them.

So it is far more than environmental sustainability.

It includes that component of social-emotional learning that is so important for young people.

It's relatable to them.

Maria, as a grantor, how do you measure the, quote, "impact" of this work?

Maria?

- That's a great question, Steve, and it stems far beyond this partnership with Sesame Workshop.

Quite honestly, it is extensive, and when we think about impact, we know that the work that we're doing is supporting people's lives, it's helping make a difference.

It's contributing factors that are just part of everyday life for people, and making that change, and providing that supplemental support that is needed in many different ways to connect the dots.

That's what impact is really about.

- Dr. Betancourt, the work that is being done here with Little Neighbors, describe what you believe the impact is on quote, unquote, "future generations" and the quality of our lives.

- Absolutely.

One of the things is that with PSEG Foundation, and particularly Maria's leadership in this work, they understand that we need to start early, in early childhood, and we often forget the value and contributions that young children can make.

So the impact is dual; one, to bring awareness about these kinds of efforts and what young children can do, but then it's also setting, for young children and the adults in their lives, a way that we're understanding how to build their resilience, their emotional well-being, but also this idea of contributing within community early on, and if we establish those skills as a Foundation, that means that as children grow into school age, their youth, and adults, they're committed to, really, their communities, and understand their input, both in terms of society, the environment, and for themselves.

- You know, Maria, without kissing up too much to the Foundation, a long-time supporter, not just of our work, but also of public broadcasting, overall, there's a history here, and Sesame Street, let's just say, has a history with public broadcasting, as well, why is this work so important for the Foundation to fund?

Because lots of requests, and we know, 'cause we have these conversations every year, you're hit with a lot of requests.

- Yep.

- Why this work?

Please.

- Yeah, I mean, this work is very important.

It really is aligned with our core corporate vision, the Foundation's vision, as well, in regards to environmental sustainability, but as Dr. Jeanette Betancourt mentioned, the important way to start with integrating this type of work is from children.

You start at the bottom, and you go up from there.

So when we think about community, it's across the board, it's lateral, it's, you know, horizontal, it's many different ways that we think about incorporating this work.

Our employees are active in our community, they are part of our community, and so sharing this work is very important in many different ways.

- And finally, in 2025, Jeanette, real quick, before I let you go, one major goal in 2025, beyond what the work is, the work you're doing already.

Please, Doctor.

- We will continue to work on trauma and the impact of trauma, we will continue on environmental sustainability.

And then something as we're looking ahead, digital well-being.

- Whoa!

Did you say digital well-being, someone?

(Jeanette and Maria laugh) That's an area for the Foundation as well?

- This is separate from PSEG, but keep in mind that it's the use of digital media - Yeah.

- with all these resources, and how do we look at that holistically?

- Yeah, but for the Foundation, you're concerned, as well, for the overuse and abuse... Nevermind, I'll get off my... With four kids, trust me, that's my issue, that's not yours.

- That's a different topic.

- Yeah.

- It's one that we could do for the future, Steve.

- We will.

To Dr. Betancourt, to Maria, thank you so much for joining us.

Well said, thank you.

We'll see you soon - Thank you, Steve.

- Thank you.

- You got it.

Stay with us, we'll be right back.

- To watch more Think Tank with Steve Adubato, find us online and follow us on social media.

- We're now joined by Harry Lee, President and CEO of the New Jersey Public Charter School Association.

Harry, good to see you.

- Great to be here, Steve, thank you for having me.

- You got it, the website is up.

Let's clarify.

There are 86 New Jersey charter schools?

- Yes, there are 86 public charter schools in the state of New Jersey serving 63,000 students.

- That's 4% of New Jersey's public school students, correct?

- That is correct, but in our former Abbott SDA district, Schools Development Authority districts, we are about one in five students in our urban communities.

- Okay, let's do this.

Check out our interview with Senator Vin Gopal, the Chair of the Senate Education Committee, because we talked to the senator about a lot of things regarding charter schools and other educational issues.

But one of them was this report on NJ.com, Advance Media NJ.com.

We talked about a charter school, abuse in this charter school, exorbitant payment to those running the charter school, that those charter schools were run by people who do not live in New Jersey while teachers and administrators in public schools, which charter schools are, have to live in New Jersey.

It's a long-winded way of getting to this.

There are hearings being held as we do this program, we'll talk about them after, that look into charter schools and whether those are the aberrations, the norm, what?

You say, what, Harry Lee?

- Obviously the stories that have been out there on NJ.com are concerning, but they're absolute outliers.

The vast majority of our 86 charter schools are doing the right things by kids and families.

And while the issues that have been raised are small in number, we know that we do need meaningful reforms for some of these issues that, one, put guardrails on these bad actors, but also preserve the autonomy of our schools.

And charter schools are public schools.

These are public funds and they must be spent responsibly and fairly.

And so we plan to address these issues directly.

We've been working with Senator Gopal and a number of other lawmakers on common sense reforms.

And so, from a policies perspective, we need to make sure that salaries are in line with the market, number one.

We need to make sure that in terms of governance, that our charter boards have the proper training, as well as they're properly vetted and they don't live outside of the state of New Jersey.

And third is really around transparency, making sure that charter school budgets are transparent and that there are salaries that everyone knows about.

And so we expect a cooperative effort and are working with Senator Gopal and others to make sure that we take a surgical approach to these solutions.

- All right, lemme ask you something.

How does something like that happen?

In the charter school that's featured in this report in NJ.com, a married couple reportedly earning combined over $600,000 while living in Florida, as I talked about.

You're supposed to live in New Jersey.

- Yeah.

- These hearings are being held.

We'll talk to the senator after that.

But my question is, how the heck does that happen?

I mean, do you regulate yourselves?

- No, I, and I do not see this- - Or that's Department of Education's role?

- That is the Department of Education's role.

And I do not see this as a charter school failure.

I see this as part of human failure, that you had individuals who are not doing the right thing.

Those have since been reported and those schools must be held to account.

And so we have been talking to the Department of Education on these issues that have been highlighted, and we expect them to investigate and take appropriate action.

- Okay, so the Trump administration takes office, all kinds of talk about the Federal Department of Education, gonna get rid of it, gonna downsize it and cut back funds to state and local school districts.

What, if anything, do you believe the potential impact of any of this would have on the charter school movement in the state of New Jersey?

The public charter school movement.

- This, if this election taught us anything, it is that we have to listen to the voices of our working class families, especially our Latino and black families.

And so we hope that the Secretary of Education, Linda McMahon, listens to those voices, especially when it comes to public charter schools, especially when it comes to making sure that resources go to under-resourced communities and our educationally disadvantaged children.

And so there are a lot of rumors going around about what may happen.

I don't wanna speculate.

It's a wait and see, but I will say from our perspective, we will work with everyone who wants to ensure that there are positive impacts for students and families, especially those who are economically disadvantaged and in our urban communities.

- By the way, I wanna make it clear as we're doing this program, Linda McMahon has not been confirmed by the Senate.

She's expected to be the Secretary of Education on the Federal.

Let me ask you this.

As it relates to urban public charter schools, what are two or three keys, Urban Education that Works that makes those schools work well, please, Harry?

- Absolutely.

And primarily in New Jersey, charter schools serve urban communities.

We have 63,000 students.

44% of public charter school students are black.

41% are Latino.

70% come from economically disadvantaged backgrounds and 10% receive special education services.

And last week, the New Jersey Department of Education put out their 2024 state assessment results.

And students of color in public charter schools are knocking it out of the park and so- - Define knocking it out of the park.

- Absolutely.

Black, Latino, and economically disadvantaged students are outperforming their statewide counterparts in every grade and subject.

And I have to brag about Newark, whenever we talk about charter schools.

We have 20,000 public charter school students in Newark.

80% come from low income households.

For the second year in a row Newark Charter School students are outperforming the state average in reading.

So I want us to take a step back and think about that.

We have what is widely regarded as the number one public education system in the country.

Newark Charter students are outperforming the state average in reading for multiple years in a row.

And these simply put, these are some of the best public schools ever created.

And we have to support those schools, celebrate the schools, and share best practices.

- I've said this before, my dad started the first charter school, my late dad started the first charter school in the, I believe, in the state of New Jersey, the Robert Treat Academy that I know very well and continues to do important work.

So lemme just share that.

Go on our website, you can find out more.

Harry Lee, President and CEO of the New Jersey Public Charter School Association.

Harry, good to see you.

We'll have you on after Senator Gopal's Education Committee hearings to try to make sense of what has taken place and what needs to be done moving forward.

Thank you, Harry.

- Thank you Steve, appreciate it.

- You got it.

Stay with us, we'll be right back.

- To watch more Think Tank with Steve Adubato, find us online and follow us on social media.

- We're now joined by Jess Rauchberg, who's assistant professor in the Department of Communication Media and Arts at our higher ed partner, Seton Hall University.

Professor, good to see you.

- Thanks for having me today, Steve.

- All right, let's break this down.

You are saying after five years of research about what this influencer market is, that social media is more powerful than ever before, and dinosaurs like me in traditional media are about to get outta the business.

Is that what you're saying?

- I think that's part of a larger conversation.

It's not that people don't want to find information and they're not seeking that information out, but instead of turning to traditional sources such as news, print journalism or broadcast journalism or radio, they're now turning increasingly to social media platforms to find that information.

So as we saw in the 2024 election, it's not the news, but influencers who have podcasts or logs that are shaping how voters are choosing the ways they wanna participate in an election, and I think we're going to be seeing a lot more of that moving forward.

- Okay, let me ask you this, Jess.

As part of the public broadcasting family, We have guardrails in legacy media, particularly with public broadcasting.

What the heck are the guardrails with the influencers on social media that you're talking about?

- That's where the problems come in, Steve, because for the most part, these social media influencers and the content they're putting out, particularly about political events like an election, those are regularly unmoderated and there aren't the same guardrails.

So just because somebody might have a couple hundred thousand or even millions of followers in a really prominent podcast, doesn't mean that those same guardrails that exist in legacy media are there for the influencers in their podcasts.

But most people and audiences don't realize that.

So it becomes pretty dangerous when you are only tuning in to an unregulated podcast as opposed to a more legacy or traditional media source where those guardrails exist.

- Professor, let's try this.

What about if a whole range of my friends and their sons and daughters, disproportionately sons, they love Joe Rogan.

Joe Rogan tells them things and says things that they agree with.

So Joe Rogan must be right.

They must be right.

What concerns do you have that given the influencer market and the phenomena of influencers on social media, that people basically just search out people, listen, follow those who agree with them, so they must be right.

There's no other point of view, there's no devil's advocate.

There's no serious questioning, there's no challenging.

I must be right.

Joe Rogan agrees with me.

Go ahead.

- So that's a really big conversation that scholars of social media and journalism and media workers in traditional or legacy fields such as journalism alike, these are some questions we're wrestling with.

Podcasts hosts like Joe Rogan aren't trained as journalists.

They might have a background in communications, but they're more centered in the entertainment aspect.

And so now we're seeing as influencers are turning to, and people are turning to influencers themselves as sources of news, that there's now a conflation between media that's put out there for entertainment or some kind of enjoyable listening and information sharing that you might get from watching a broadcast on PBS or another network.

- So hold on.

I don't want to conflate things, but we just did an interview with... And by the way, check out this program with Robbie Parker, who's wrote this book, "A Father's Fight: Taking on Alex Jones, Reclaiming the Truth About Sandy Hook."

Robbie lost a 6-year-old daughter, Emily, in Sandy Hook.

Alex Jones, an influencer, back in 2012 said, these were actors.

The thing never happened, it was a hoax, and millions of people believed it.

Question, and then there's a court case you can follow what happened.

When it comes to truth, basic truth and responsibility, if Alex Jones or Joe Rogan, who did nothing like that, but says, "I'm an entertainer," where the heck is the accountability for anything that anyone does or says as a so-called influencer?

- That's where the problem lies, Steve.

I think that while we're placing a lot of power as audiences, or as the industry begins to adapt towards the role that influencers play, we need to take them seriously.

But that doesn't mean that we need to evaluate an influencer the same way as we would a journalist.

That said, most people and most listeners who are turning to influencers or news and for information about politics, that they don't recognize that difference.

And when the influencers themselves don't make that distinction, it makes a journalist's work so much more difficult.

And- - So, what should we be doing?

I'm sorry for interrupting.

Should we as so-called legacy media, be challenging those influencers for what they say and do?

How accurate it is or isn't?

Because if someone says, "I wanna listen to Rogan.

I wanna listen to..." And Dana White, I listen...

I love UFC, Ultimate Fighting.

But Dana White's an influencer in his own way.

I don't listen to him for what he has to say.

But the question becomes, doesn't everyone have a right to listen to whoever they want, whether they're right or wrong, responsible or not, truthful or not?

- Yes, I don't think we can make recommendations on you shouldn't listen to somebody.

But rather, we need to ask ourselves questions, why are we listening to them?

And does it make sense to listen to an entertainment influencer or somebody who's putting out content that isn't necessarily coming from a background in politics or journalism?

Do we value that the same way we would a politician or a journalist?

I think where legacy media's challenge lies, where that lies ahead is learning to adapt to the influencer industry.

It's not going away.

But we still need journalists.

We still need legacy media.

- What does that mean?

- Respectfully, Jess, what does that mean for those of us... And it's not about me.

Anyone who chooses to be a journalist, to ask serious questions, to deal in facts, to challenge and question respectfully, who doesn't have a point of view that they're putting out there.

What are you saying we should do?

Put a microphone in front of us and just say stuff?

- Well, some legacy media workers are turning in that direction, but that doesn't mean everyone needs to do that.

What I think we will see happen, and what I predict that where the industry's going to evolve over the next few years is that there might be adaptations to where journalists or legacy media workers are putting their information out there.

So it might not just be in an article or just a traditional TV broadcast, but maybe also putting some of that work onto social media platforms.

So it is reaching different types of audiences and they're getting different perspectives that aren't just Joe Rogan or Alex Jones.

- Before I let you go, do you believe this whole social media influencer thing, do you think that it's a bubble that is about to burst or just gonna get bigger?

- That has been a question that several people have asked me and I think we are at what a professor whom I collaborate with at Cornell University, Brooke Duffy, and I are calling the influencer tipping point.

For a decade, we didn't take influencers seriously, but now we are now encountering the fact that they're shaping our elections, they're shaping our politics.

It's no longer just about shopping or entertainment, but it's about how we participate in a democracy.

And so I think we need to pay more attention to influencers, and also we need to pay more attention to journalists who are actively working to provide accurate, truthful information about the implications of when we turn to influencers for not just entertainment, but also politics.

- Thank you, professor.

Appreciate it.

- Thank you.

- Say hello to our friends at Seton Hall University.

Go Pirates.

I'm Steve- - I will.

Do you need anything else from me?

- No, no, it's great.

It's the end of the show.

Unlike a podcast, I actually have an end time.

Thank you, professor.

- Excellent.

Take care, have a happy holiday and thank you so much, everyone.

- Same to you.

I'm Steve Adubato, We'll see you next time.

- [Narrator] Think Tank with Steve Adubato is a production of the Caucus Educational Corporation.

Celebrating 30 years in public broadcasting.

Funding has been provided by New Jersey Children’s Foundation.

Robert Wood Johnson Foundation.

Valley Bank.

Atlantic Health System.

The Turrell Fund, a foundation serving children.

NJ Best, New Jersey’s five-two-nine college savings plan.

NJM Insurance Group.

The Fidelco Group.

And by The Adler Aphasia Center.

Promotional support provided by Meadowlands Media.

And by New Jersey Globe.

- At the New Jersey Children's Foundation, we believe all children should have access to a high quality public education regardless of where they live.

We believe schools should place students on paths to success, and we invest in schools and educators who are meeting those needs.

Whatever your seat on the bus: student, parent, teacher, business leader, you have a role in our mission.

In Newark, district and charter schools show great education is possible.

We're working to unite people across the city and state to provide students with the schools they deserve.