-On the next -Homegoings, award winning -choreographer and dancer -Marjani Forte Saunders -joins us for a very -Vermont outing, -Cheers!

-shares her craft and reflects -on her complex -journey of loving her body -through dance.

-That was one of -the first times -a choreographer ever told me -my body was beautiful.

-And I had been dancing -since I was four.

-What's up Colchester?!

-I've known you -for such a long time.

-Marjani is bicoastal, -I am bicoastal.

-She goes between, -New York and LA, -and I go between LA -and Vermont, -and we were right -around the corner -from each other in Pasadena, -where there are not -a lot of people -who look like us.

-But you only have to drive, -like, ten minutes -to see, like, a lot of people -who look like us.

-Where as Vermont, -it's like, you know, it's -it's harder work -to see a lot of folks -who look like you.

-But it's so funny -how much we have -put friendship, motherhood, -I guess -just like community first.

-But I don't think -I quite realized -how amazing you are -as an artist.

-So I think my first question -for you, -now that, you know, -!folks are getting to know you, -is very simple.

-Who are you -and what do you do?

-I love that -you think that simple.

-Fair enough.

-Im living my life -in this now -and in my before and forever -as an artist.

-I'm a choreographer.

-That means many things -in different spaces.

-!But ultimately its the reality -of organizing bodies -in space.

-And also it is -a process of, seeing -the being beyond the body, -the flesh, beyond the body, -the essence of, human -!experience and our expression.

-And that's one of the things -I love most about what I do, -One of the things that you -are bringing up -is this word body.

-!I think about welcoming spaces -for Black people.

-And I don't know, outside -of all of the music -that was stolen from us, -!that the stages have been that -welcoming -for other genres -like dance and theater, -for Black people -in the Black body.

-When did you realize -that your body was beautiful?

-You did not say, -you're going to dig right -!into my heart when we started, -This is a dance pun -intended of sorts, -I loved, -I always loved the craft.

-I always loved doing what -I do as a performer -and as a maker.

-And those origins are, -in my experience as a child.

-And I know many people say -that, but that's the truth.

-It's like your children -come into a knowing -if we're lucky of themselves -and of their gifts so early, -especially -if they're surrounded by -environments that say yes.

-And that environment for -me was the church -because I got to dance -for folks -and then I, -in dancing for folks -I got to see my joy -be almost contagious.

-And then for us to be -in sort of this other -kind of plane of joy -space together -that's infectious thing -that I look for now -and I intend on conjuring -every time I move my body -and I came to even remotely -look at my body with favor -and joy when I started to -dance for Urban Bush Women.

-That's a company -based in Brooklyn, -New York, founded by -Jawole Willa Jo Zollar -and erected -really in collaboration -with many incredible women, -womb holding artists.

-I say that -with that kind of specificity -because that's -how they identify.

-It wasn't about it -necessarily being exclusive -but being specific -with the storytelling, -stories rooted in -movement and practices -of the African diaspora -that were coming from -the African diaspora, -naming that like, right out.

-And so that included, -contemporary dance practice -bodies trained by Eurocentric -dance forms like ballet.

-I had just left the company -I was really quite injured -by as a dancer.

-In fact, -they fired me.

-What?

-They fired me -for being too fat.

-I was not.

-They were clear -about their esthetic -and I'm not even saying that -there's -anything wrong with that.

-What I am saying is that, -where is the opportunity -and the space and -acknowledgment of our calling -and the opportunities -to love ourselves?

-Because I wanted to dance -all the time, -and I wanted to -make a living from it, -and I wanted to do it and up -until this moment, before -I joined Urban Bush Women, -I was dying.

-I was -not taking care of my body.

-I was not holding on -to my food, -to try to be an esthetic, -an idea of excellent.

-So when I joined -Urban Bush Women -Jawole said to me, -you're wearing -these big clothes -in rehearsal all the time and -I can't really see your body.

-Why are you doing that?

-Your body is beautiful.

-Then you lost it?

-!Yeah, I mean, I think that was -one of the first times -a choreographer ever told me -my body was beautiful.

-And I had been dancing -since I was four, -and at this point I was 21.

-I think it usually takes me -a lot longer to cry -in these interviews.

-Yes!

-Let's just start picking.

-All right.

-You look like a snack.

-Okay.

-Just because they're -so yummy.

-There you go.

Nice.

-And no leaves and no leaves.

-And that's like -a perfect apple.

-Let's cheers our apples, -should we take a bite?

-Cheers.

Cheers.

-Alright.

-You travel how many -days in a year?

-At this point?

-In an ideal sense, -it's at least a week -a month.

-Yeah.

-Because traveling is called -an income.

-I know.

-That's the thing.

-We can't outsource -our job.

No, no.

-!This bag is heavy.

Okay.

Yeah.

-No I got it.

-You're going.

-You're the star.

Cheers.

-Oh I wish.

-Okay.

-You're like whatever.

-These are more tart.

-I like the tart.

-You do?

-Yeah.

-You seem so disappointed.

-You're like disgusted -with that apple.

-You hate that apple so much.

-I don't hate it.

-Its just the other ones -were like so sweet.

-I was missing -the tart in those.

-I want some more of those.

-What are those kind again?

-Honey Crisps, over here.

-Okay, let's do it.

-They look orange and yummy -just like Honeycrisp apples.

-Oh, my gosh, -I love that you love these.

-Oh, my gosh, -you really love them.

-You're right.

-These are so good.

-They're so sweet.

-Oh, Okay.

-I gotta make room for more.

-Okay, lets do it!

-And Im supposed to -dance later?

-Youre going -to be full of apples.

Yeah.

-I think it was during Covid.

-We were neighbors.

-We were in lockdown -and we both love hot yoga.

-Don't groan at us.

-We like it.

Okay?

-We both love hot yoga.

-We like that 108 degree room -to to do our stretching -and do our yoga in.

-And we didn't, we -couldn't go to any studios.

-So I heated up my bedroom.

-We're at the same age -and we were both mothers, -and I think we probably spent -a good ten minutes -in front of the mirror.

-Both of us -saying what has happened -to our bodies?

-Yep.

-So I wonder about motherhood -with you and your journey.

-How did your, -I guess, dysmorphia, -!I don't know if you would like -to call it that.

-How did your dysmorphia do -while pregnant, -or before pregnancy or after?

-And how was it in that moment -in my bedroom during Covid?

-Myra, Myra, Myra.

-We had a home birth, -we had our child at home -in Harlem, in this -appartment.

-And a home birth -was a -total wholistic experience.

-Like what youre eating, -how youre thinking, -how your praying, -what youre writing, -how you're seeing, -What kind of fun youre -putting in your system?

-Are you making love?

-are you watching -what you put into your system -what are you watching?

-Because everything about -your mind -is about -deconditioning -your reliance -on a medical system -that is producing fatality -for Black women -who are having children -at a rate that is, -let's just say alarming.

-Okay?

-3 times as likely as white -women and children to die.

-Still nearly four.

-It's it's disgusting -to be a first world nation.

-That makes no sense.

-That makes no sense.

-And Black -women are getting C-sections -and rates that are insane.

-Like, you know, literally, -I have -!story after story after story, -friends, close friends -who are being rushed -through the process -of giving birth to their -children, this is not a lie.

-This is right now.

-This is like happening -right now in our hospitals.

-And and what I have -to literally teach myself, -my midwife -is going to do this, -not my gynecologist, -its a process.

-And I didn't really do it.

-Well, what I mean, -I didn't decondition well.

-So I kept my gynecologist -even though once I told -her that -she wasn't delivering, -She wasnt nice -to me anymore.

-This is my conditioning.

-!So I'm just saying that to say -that, -this is just such a process -that I had to work through.

-After I had our son, -then I would be faced -with my body -dysmorphia on a whole - 'nother level, because I got -a commission for a project -that would be called -Memoires of a Unicorn.

-This would be my first -Bessie Award winning -project.

-Seven years -you toured that project.

-!I mean, what were you thinking -in your mind?

-Like, I got to lose this -weight quickly, right?

-You know what that -meant, Myra?

-Starvation?

-Lost my milk.

-All I wanted to do was -nurse my baby.

-Oh, my gosh.

-You understand?

-It was very tricky.

-I did for a little while.

-I didn't for a little while -and I now understand -you cant be sweating so -much and lose all the fat -that your body needs -to make the milk.

-But thats the dysmorphia, -thats the sickness.

-Because again, from age -4 to 21, youre fat.

-He's nine now -and I dont know -that Ive reconciled.

-He litterally went like -this, you guys.

-He didn't want it?

-He was like, you aint -got it in there woman.

-Get the other milk thing.

-You know what I mean?

-I can joke about it now -because I feel I understand, -I understand, I overstand -what was happening -and Ive forgiven -and love myself again.

-And he's nine -and hes dope!

-Can we give -some applause please?

-Yes.

Yes.

-The beauty of being an artist -is that I get to connect -with other communities.

-I get to connect -with Black people -across the world.

-And find them.

-So you look for us -wherever you go.

-I went to Berlin -and I asked my curator, -who are the radical Black -experimenters in the city?

-Wow.

-I really want to meet them, -the folks -who are asking -some critical questions -about our wellness, -about -our history.

That's so good.

-I'm in heels.

-Ditto.

Oh, yeah.

-Cowboy boots, but -still counts.

-Do you want to do an orchard -dance?

-I mean, I absolutely would.

-Don't tease me.

-I will tease you.

-Seriously, -I'm not even joking.

-Yeah.

-Oh, that was so beautiful.

-This other thing -happened during Covid, -and this was the witness -of a Black man being publicly -murdered by a police officer.

-And we have, -on Homegoings, -especially gone in on this -!for such an example of a shift -for so many different things.

-But art and you and your body -and dance -and touring and money -and D.E.I.

-Things like D.E.I.

-What happened -to your career -!during this time and your art?

-Memoires of a Unicorn -was first inspired -because we had watched -Eric Garner experience -the same thing.

-Remember that?

-Statton Island.

-And then before Eric -there was Trayvon.

-We heard about Trayvon -and we heard him, -we heard -them play that audio.

-Remember that?

-And then we saw the -video of Philando Castile -being shot in the car -next to his baby -and his girlfriend, -his wife, his partner, -his person.

-Yeah.

-Ee just keep going.

-There's so many -who have been murdered -by, folks either -!masquerading as police, right?

-Or folks -who are actually representing -the system -that is designed -to protect us.

-Okay.

-So, when the country watched -this man be slowly -strangled to death -by a police officer's knee -and the pandemic had -us just quiet enough -to say, oh, hell no!

-If you hear somebody -say that around you -you should -!just look around a little bit, -!because its about to pop off, -meaning that -people of color, -we said, our generation -was saying again, -Enough.

-By any means necessary, I -quote Malik Shabazz, -We will -no longer be silent.

-We will become violence -if need be.

-We are going to -overturn the system.

-So what did the -system do?

-No you aint, take -some money, here.

-We got a lot of money.

-You remember?

-We got stipends, -you got a certain award.

-You got a big old -tax break.

-People say, oh -because of the pandemic, -we don't want -all the institutions to fail -so we going to use the money, -you know what Im saying?

-Theres all these reasons -why we want to use -money and those may be -legit in some ways, it's also -definitely, absolutely to -quiet -the voice of revolution.

-And it did successfully.

-Because we could go local.

-That's a benefit.

-We were talking about this -in the car.

-In the local apple orchard.

-Thats right!

We -could frequent the orchard -instead of the grocery store -that's 20 minutes away.

-We could grow gardens -in our local community, -you understand?

-We we started a -neighborhood block group -in Pasadena.

-I remember, yeah.

-Of course.

Yeah.

-We could start to organize -locally because we werent -pushing so hard, -trying to feed ourselves.

-!Do you understand what happens -when you slow down?

-When we get to slow down, -we remember our humanity.

-You see, when -the money came back, -people started to invest.

-We started to build -more Black businesses.

-We started -to have more independence.

-This is again, -this is a cycle.

-And you can find this -cycle occurring -throughout U.S. history -every 20 years.

-And actually also in line -with pandemics -or giant flus or plagues, -social revolutions -soon after to follow.

Yes.

-And the thing about it -that is so deep is that these -social revolutions it's -not just people saying, hey, -I deserve it -because I'm Black.

-You do.

Okay.

-Because this country was -built on your ancestors -and nothing aint -never been paid back.

-So it's not just about that, -but it's also like, -where is your humanity?

-!When are we going to get right?

-When are you going to say -honestly, oh, I'm wealthy -because my grandparents -were wealthy -and because their -grandparents were -wealthy because -they had a bunch of slaves?

-When do we say that?

-I think you just did.

-I did.

-<applause> -Yeah.

-And when do we say, -I want to put this, -I want to reinvest this.

-I want to close -that karmic loop.

-And I want to reinvest -this into folks -who are -building community -and working to reestablish -and to heal the wounds -that come from the -systemic disenfranchisement -of Black communities -and Im centering -Blackness here -because I'm talking about -the central roots -of the slave trade -!that this country is built on.

-communities of color, -Bipoc, Black, -indigenous people of color, -meaning that -our chicano communities -Black African diaspora -!communities from the Caribbean -our Pueto Rican, our -Domincan communites, -you know, all across were -talking about folks -who will come here -and be called one thing, -but they're really from -India, you know?

-Like we're talking about -people with melanin.

-We're talking about people -who cannot progress -into whiteness simply because -of the shade of their skin -by simply eliminating -the accent in their tongue -and their practices.

-So if they can't wear -traditional garments -out of their house -because then they will -no longer be -considered white, -that's who Im -talking about.

-So it is essential to me -that in a country's -relationship to repair -that we understand -some of that early sin -that we understand -what we're doing -with indigenous peoples, -not just names.

-Right, but how are we -reinvesting -the way that weve raped -and pillaged the land?

-How are we reinvesting?

-How are we trusting -communities of color to do -the repair work themselves, -if we put our funding -into them to do it?

-That's what happened -during Covid, and that's why -it felt so good -for a minute.

-So back to you -and your body.

-Well, -I started experiencing -this excruciating pain -in my trigeminal nerve.

-And I can -no longer participate.

-I can't really talk.

-The pain is so sharp.

-It's like someone slapping -me in my jaw.

-Long story short, -after a couple of M.R.I.s, -I'm diagnosed -with multiple sclerosis.

-So all of this -that you've gone through -with your body, some of it -self-inflicted.

-And now this -moment of no control.

-How did you feel -after learning that news -How dare my body.

-How dare she -do this to me?

-<police radio chatter> -<heavy breathing> -Somewhere in my -dance career -I tore my A.C.L.

-And when I did, -in that stillness I started -studying Zen Buddhism.

-One of the core -concepts that -it references -and in the texts -that I was studying -was this notion of -clouds and water, -to be like -clouds and water.

-The notion is that -clouds and water advance -through, above and around -anything.

-Clouds, theyre around -the globe at all time.

-They change form -but they do not go away.

-They just change.

-They might become water -and water -can permeate anything, -even stone -over time.

-Brilliant elements -that teach us about -how we can be, -literally be.

-<music> -<applause> -Thanks so much for -joining us.

-If you want to continue -to be a part -of the Homegoings -family, stay in touch -at homegoings.co -and subscribe to the -homegoings podcast -wherever you listen.

-Take good care.