(light music) - Stay tuned for On Q.

For KSMQ Public Television, I'm Eric Olson.

Today, we meet a special woman who trains local leaders to be better at what they do.

And we have a very special guest who resembles none other than Abraham Lincoln, Honest Abe.

We'll find out why he is so compelled to make history come alive.

That's coming up On Q.

♪ Local ideas that matter to you ♪ ♪ Sharing our region's unique point of view ♪ ♪ Telling the stories that you never knew ♪ ♪ On Q ♪ ♪ On Q ♪ ♪ On Q ♪ Wherever we go, there seems like there's someone in charge.

Whether it's at home or the office, they're considered our leaders.

But leaders sometimes need pointers or a little help to get through a tough situation.

And that's when they can go to someone like Certified Leadership Coach, Mary Holtorf.

Welcome, Mary.

- Thank you for having me.

- Oh, you bet.

I've known you for many years in your leadership past, too, in Austin.

And you started getting into this, you met a fella named John Maxwell as I understand it and I should know that name, I guess, it's very well-known.

But I confess, I did not know who this person was.

Tell us about how you got started.

- Well, when I was principal, my background is in education.

So I was a fifth grade teacher, principal, love technology and when I was principal, I read a book by John Maxwell and he has about 85, 90 books out there.

- [Eric] Oh my gosh.

- Yeah, so you can pick up some.

- [Eric] I need the help, thank you very much.

- And I loved his style of leadership and so I really tried to emulate that.

And when I decided that I wanted to take this path through coaching, training and teaching of leadership skills, I knew that I wanted to go the route of John Maxwell.

He's a servant leader, has just hands-on, very...

He always says, "Put the cookies on the low shelf," for everyone to be able to understand the leadership principles.

Leadership can be complicated.

It's been an ongoing journey for me.

Starting young, I just I loved leadership.

And so I decided to go be certified with John Maxwell and I just been growing and learning since then from him.

- So this was a course, you learned the basics from him and now you offer it to other clients around Morrow County or the area.

- Yes.

I'm gonna throw an analogy at you.

I just thought I don't know if it's true or not, but in a past life for me, I was a reporter and I would fly in our helicopter quite a bit.

The station had a helicopter.

And the pilot told me, "It's the easiest thing in the world "to fly a helicopter with no training, "except when something goes unusual or something goes wrong "and then within seconds, "you can have a real serious problem."

And I think about that in my limited knowledge of management.

We have great people that I lead, but then sometimes there'll be something and you have to make a quick decision.

And it seems like that's when the training really would come in handy.

- Yes, leaders are really challenged right now just getting off of COVID.

That was something totally new that people were just like, what do we do?

Everybody was uncertain and they looked to leaders to try to figure it out and leaders are like, we've never been through anything like this.

With the great resignation, those kinds of things that leaders are challenged right now to become better leaders, to become a leader that everybody wants to follow because we all have leaders in our lives that like Abraham Lincoln who's coming next, one of my favorite presidents.

And you look to these people and you say, what have they done right and what can I take from them and use it in my own leadership?

And so understanding that leadership is challenging, it's something I don't think I'll ever...

I like to look at leaders and say, okay, what are they doing?

What are they doing that's working, what are they doing that's not working?

It's just something that I enjoy doing.

- So is that how you begin it with a client for instance?

Tell me what you do well or something?

Or how is it that you approach?

You work a lot with folks in Morrow County government, so when you work with those leaders, how do you begin the conversation?

- With Morrow County and Morrow County, I do all their leadership training there right now, and I start with a DISC assessment, which is an assessment that helps them understand themselves better.

And we've all got these personalities and it measures the D, the I, the S and the C. A lot of companies use that.

It's a self awareness tool because if you don't know yourself very well, you can't lead.

You can't first of all lead yourself, which is the hardest person to lead.

And you can't lead other people.

And so this DISC assessment really helps people understand themselves and then start to understand the people that they're working with.

I just was there this morning with a group coaching and it was amazing.

We were trying to understand why is this person like this?

And then whatever our blind spots in leadership, it's really quite fascinating.

So that's where I usually start is with a DISC assessment and an awareness tool because leaders sometimes aren't that self aware.

- Or we've been pushed in, we weren't trying for this position or whatever.

You were in an office or you were in a profession and suddenly, there you are, oh my gosh.

- Yes, yes, like, you could be a really good accountant and the better accountant you are, you move up in the chain and it's like, I don't know how to manage people.

I only know accounting and I'm really good at it.

But then so that's where I come in is I can come in and help someone with their leadership skills 'cause leadership skills can be taught.

A lot of people think, well, you have to be a born leader.

No, you can teach the skills that you need.

- So is there a psychology or is it very have meetings every week, talk to people once a month?

I mean, that's simplistic but is it just that kind of thing?

- That's a great question because some of it is simplistic, but some of it is... For instance, McKenzie and Company, they do surveys on why people are leaving their workplace or what the culture of the workplace is like.

And I just read one last week that said this great resignation, people are leaving because they feel their leaders don't care for them.

And I thought, they're leaving for that?

That can be taught of course, add value and be kind to your workers.

But if you look at that and say, they're leaving because they don't feel cared for, that's important to understand.

And it's way different, leadership is different from now, the 1950s, you're a totally different leader.

Now it's people wanna know that you care about them and that if they're gonna leave, you're gonna be like, ah, that's too bad you're gonna leave.

- And with younger people, though, that you hire, there's because of maybe COVID or technological, maybe it's society, but they wanna have options.

I wanna work at home.

Why do I have to be in an office every day and the whole social cohesion piece that builds an office is not always recognized by, now, I don't wanna just blame it on youth, but these days when you have that option to do some of your work at home, to try to teach that that's not the way we build an effective group or do you think that can be done?

- Right, more and more research is coming out that in order to build that effective team, you need to be in the office at some point.

If it's three days a week and then we're all in the office three days a week, two days a week, you can work from home, that might allow that flexibility.

Leaders have to think outside the box because what is gonna help people stay?

You have to understand this new generation that they may not want to ever come in the office, but research is showing that many companies are saying come back into the office because you're not having those conversations, those sidebar conversations about creativity and hey, I just thought of this idea.

We're not having that 'cause you're on Zoom.

So I think there's a balance that we can come to and I think it's up to leaders to be open to the balance, but also to be clear that we wanna build this team, so let's figure out how to build the team and we need to be in the office some point, so yeah.

- And we're speaking with Mary Holtorf about leadership here on On Q.

Two other little overlays in the time we have left, the smallness of the market and nonprofit versus for profit management.

I don't know if there's a difference that you've distinguished, but there's a whole retention challenge for a nonprofit leader like myself when people have choices that might be more money.

We're in a small town, maybe they wanna be in a big town.

And it's a nonprofit.

- Right, there are a lot of options out there for people who are looking for jobs.

And so they're probably looking at, do I wanna live in a small town?

If not, you're out.

Or the mission, does the mission speak to me?

Working here at KSMQ, it's like what is your mission and if your mission is something I can get onboard with, younger people are really mission driven instead of money driven.

And would they like the money?

Of course, but they want to do something that's gonna be meaningful and really know that the work they do is contributing to the mission.

- Okay, is that unique?

Is that all young people or is that new to this kind of generation?

- Well, it's I've noticed the younger generation coming up like that that they really wanna know, am I making a difference and how can I make a difference to your mission?

- I've heard that instead of going to meetings in organizations, service organizations, there'd be much more interest in going and fixing or planting the trees or whatever it is than the weekly meetings.

- Right, yeah, that's why our service clubs and that do so much here in Austin that it's like are we going to be able to attract those new people and what does it look like?

A weekly meeting, maybe not.

So the millennials, what they are doing is they are helping us rethink the workplace.

And I'm not opposed to that.

I think that we can rethink the workplace and make it a better place if leaders are open to making those changes.

- So we have two resources for you, anybody interested.

It would be John Maxwell who you can just Google and learn things from him, like I will learn because I didn't know.

And then your organization in Austin for Morrow County, tell folks how you can get in touch.

- Sure, I have a Facebook page, Leadership Development Resources, I also have a website.

It's LDR-ship.com.

So they can get ahold of me any which way.

- Well, it's exciting work.

Thank you for being part of it.

Great, thanks, Mary.

- Thank you.

(light music) (light music) - Welcome back, most of us remember being in history class learning about the founding fathers of our country, including Abraham Lincoln.

Well, today, we are privileged to have with us in full costume, educator, costumed historical interpreter and author Bryce Stenzel.

Welcome, Bryce.

- Thank you, sir.

It's an honor to be here.

- And this is Bryce mode at first here.

We'll start in Bryce mode and then we'll go into Abraham Lincoln mode in just a minute.

So it's wonderful to have you here.

How did you get interested in doing this?

You've had an interest in history since childhood really.

- Yes, my father was a World War II veteran and so I wanted to find out what it was that made him so patriotic.

And I thought there had to be other people that felt the way he did.

And sure enough, there were.

And I started reading about the founding fathers as you mentioned, but Abraham Lincoln was always a source of interest to me from the time I was five years old actually, learning about him in kindergarten.

And it might have been the face.

He's got a very interesting face.

And I've noticed this with young people even in my own career as a costumed historical interpreter, they seem to gravitate toward Lincoln.

And he's like a fatherly figure, somebody you wanna climb up on his lap.

In fact, as a little boy, I thought I could do that with the Lincoln Memorial, not realizing that it's 19 feet tall.

- [Eric] And he's from the Midwest, Illinois.

- Yes, yes, well, growing up in Mankato, I was born actually in Mankato and grew up in rural Mankato, but being from that area, we have a infamous event that took place in 1862, which Lincoln was part of.

But Lincoln actually took it upon himself and even as a boy this impressed me, that the president of the United States was willing to intervene and find out what was going on in far off Minnesota and it turned out that I was correct about that.

There was supposed to be 303 Native American men executed for their participation in the US-Dakota War of 1862.

Well, Lincoln took that list and actually appointed, now remember he's an attorney, so he appointed a legal team to review these convictions and he ended up pardoning 265 of those original 303, so that left 38.

We always hear a lot about the 38 Dakota that were executed.

What about the 265 that were pardoned?

And so that was of interest of me.

Of course, Emancipation, freeing the slaves-- - [Eric] All of it.

All of it.

- [Eric] One of the leaders of our country, for sure.

- He was a freedom fighter just like my father was.

Or at least that's how I saw it.

- So today, how do you teach?

Are you in elementary schools or what's your normal routine?

- Well.

I'm actually licensed to teach 5-12th grade social studies, which I do.

I work in St. Clair, but I also work a lot with elementary students.

In fact, my career started when I was getting my teaching degree back in 1990.

We had student observation, which meant you go and learn what in this case elementary students were doing.

Even though I was going to be teaching or thought I was gonna be teaching older students, they had us observe elementary to see the age progression.

And I'm really glad they did because I actually enjoy that age as well.

But it just so happened that we were all supposed to design our own lesson plan.

Well, it just so happened that the day I was supposed to teach this happened to be February 12th.

And so I came as a costumed historical interpreter and the rest is history so to speak.

That was over 30 years ago.

- Is that the authentic size of the hat 'cause that's taller than your face.

Take it off, let's get a look at that.

- [Bryce] Yes, yes, it is.

- Okay, so that was the style of the day.

- Lincoln was noted for his stovepipe hats.

And he was tall to begin with and of course, that just accentuated it that much more.

Now there's different styles.

This one happens to be made of felt, but he also had one made of beaver fur, which I have an authentic beaver fur hat.

It's a little bit shorter than this one, but people seem to prefer, they like the tall hat because that's the Lincoln of legend.

- So for the warmth, the beaver, like in the wintertime or no, or just style?

- It was style.

In fact, beaver hats were stylish long before Lincoln.

That's what opened this part of the country through the fur trade with the French and the Native Americans and so on and then that trend just continued.

But by Lincoln's time, they were starting to use other materials because beaver fur was beginning to run out in many places.

So then they came up with silk and in this case, this one's wool.

So there's different materials that they can be made out of, but these tall hats were that was very stylish.

A well-dressed gentleman is supposed to have one of these.

- And the watch, the pocket watch.

Is that another common of the people in that day?

- Yes, very common and this actually happens to be a replica of Lincoln's watch and has the second hand on it.

And if you look at it carefully... - Get that out of the way maybe.

Yeah, just stay right there, stay there.

- You could actually see that the jeweler he got it from was headquartered in Springfield, Illinois, which was his hometown.

And then if you open the backside of the watch, there's actually in the inscription, thank God we still have a government, it says.

The jeweler actually put that in to Lincoln's watch.

This was a gift that was given him upon his election to the presidency.

So it's one of the things he carried with him.

And many people have seen the Steven Spielberg movie, Lincoln, and they know that in the movie, they actually show an image of Lincoln's watch and then you hear the ticking sound.

That's actually his watch that's ticking.

They took a soundbite of his actual watch.

And there was a big controversy some years ago whether that inscription was really inside the original watch.

Well, somebody got brave enough finally to open it, open the back just like I did, somebody who actually opened his and sure enough, it was there.

So that legend is true.

- And the end of his life is of course a very big part of our history, too, assassination.

- Yes, unfortunately, and I've been fortunate enough to actually go to Ford's Theater several times and I've been there actually on three of the four anniversaries when Good Friday fell on April 14th.

It happened in 1995, 2006, 2017 and it'll happen again in 2028.

So guess where I'll be that April 14th of 2028?

- So there's a ceremony?

Is there an event there?

- They do some programming, yes.

The National Park Service has a skit that they put on.

They don't show all of it, but they actually have first person presenters, such as myself come out and actually talk about different aspects of the assassination, who was in the audience that night, some of the actors that were there and so forth.

- Even though you've been doing this for so long, do you learn new things all the time that you bring into your presentation?

- Oh yes, I always try to learn new things.

- So there's history out there that you haven't found yet about him.

- Yes, for example, just recently I came across a letter that was written by a Dakota war prisoner.

Now, this was someone who survived the execution in 1862, but then was exiled to... Well, actually it was Davenport, Iowa, and then they were shipped up the Missouri River out to Santee, Nebraska area, which there's still a reservation there for these would be the descendants of these Dakota that were here.

But one of the prisoners actually wrote a letter when news of Lincoln's assassination reached them 'cause eventually it did.

There was certainly delay in communication in those days, but the word did eventually reach them in 1865 that Lincoln had been assassinated.

And this gentleman wrote a very poignant letter describing how this was a very unfortunate set of circumstances and that Lincoln had done a lot for the Native people.

Now, couple this with the current attitude that Lincoln didn't do anything for anybody, which is untrue.

Unfortunately, our history, the pendulum has swung.

The revisionists have changed it quite a bit from where Lincoln was seen.

And immediately after his assassination, it's understandable, but it was almost too much the other way.

He was compared to Christ and so on because he was killed on Good Friday.

So it's gone from that extreme to the other extreme, oh, Lincoln didn't do anything for anybody.

He's an executioner, this and that.

- Well, and people like you will have it come back the other way and keep spreading the accurate information.

- That's my goal as a historian.

- Yes, folks, we are going to have a demonstration right now and you can prepare yourself for in character as if you're addressing us, but I wanna first read how you can get more information or if you'd like to reach out to Bryce personally.

It's an email address.

It's Bryce, O, right, correct?

- [Bryce] Mm-hm, correct.

- Stenzel at gmail.com or the Minnesota History Center?

- Minnesota Heritage Publishing.

It's www.mnheritage.org.

- Okay, now what are you going to take us out with doing?

- I'm gonna share an excerpt, this would be the closing paragraph of Lincoln's first inaugural.

So I will share that with you right now-- - [Eric] Okay, Bryce Stenzel.

- I am loathed to close.

We are not enemies, but friends.

We must not be enemies.

Though passion may have strained, it must not break our bonds of affection, the mystic chords of memory stretching from every battlefield and every patriot grave to every living hearth and hearthstone all over this broad land will yet swell the chorus of union when again touched as surely they will be by the better angels of our nature.

(patriotic music) (patriotic music) (patriotic music) - Well, that's it for today.

Thank you for joining us On Q.

For KSMQ, I'm Eric Olson, see you next time.

(upbeat music) (upbeat music) (upbeat music) (light music)