- [Narrator] Funding for this edition of State of Affairs with Steve Adubato has been provided by MD Advantage Insurance Company.

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[INSPRATIONAL MUSIC] - Hi, I'm Steve Adubato.

We welcome a longtime friend of the show, Mary O'Dowd, who is executive director of health systems and population health integration for Rutgers biomedical and health sciences.

Mary, good to see you.

- Hi, Steve.

- It's good to have you.

And Mary is also the former commissioner of health in the great state of New Jersey.

Real quick, tell us what the organization is at Rutgers and what the mission is.

- Well, first of all, thanks for having me, Steve and I'm working at Rutgers in the office of clinical and health affairs.

And much of the work that I do is focused on bringing together the health systems, healthcare and clinical operations and the public health system.

But as you know, Rutgers is a large university and it has a very broad mission towards educating, not only our undergrads across the state of New Jersey, but many of our health professionals across the state of New Jersey as well.

- So, let me try this.

First of all, there's a podcast called "On the Pandemic."

We'll put up the website so that people that Mary host and she interviews all kinds of interesting folks who understand science and health and the complex issues that we're dealing with around COVID.

Let me ask you, as it relates to COVID, the vaccine and where we are today, 21 months into this, it'll be seen in 2022, early 2022.

How much of a role has "misinformation" played in making this pandemic and dealing with it that much harder?

- Oh, Steve, that's such a tough question.

I think that one of the most difficult things that we've dealt with, is just the constantly changing information and knowledge that we have on this virus and how to combat it.

If you just think about early on in the pandemic, we knew so very little about what we could do to stop the spread of disease and because of that confusion and the continuous learning, which is both a good thing, but a challenging thing, it has confused, you know, what our best strategies are, I think along the way.

So, it's our job to continue to recognize that our understanding of this virus and the learning that we're doing, is something that's gonna change and explain that as not an unexpected factor.

- Is that part of the role on the pandemic podcast?

- Yeah, well, so let me just say, Rutgers has been a big player in all of this.

So, they have been on the edge of research, not just doing sort of the clinical operations and responding to the pandemic on the front lines with our physicians and nurses and others, but also doing the research.

So, they were doing the clinical trials on the vaccine, they developed the first saliva test on how to test for the COVID virus.

And so when I was observing this and part of the response at Rutgers University, I was so proud of the contribution that the university was making.

We started to talk about ways that we could bring this information to the public.

And so "On the Pandemic" was born out of that sense of pride of the contribution of Rutgers University,.

And so throughout the course of the last year and a half, I've interviewed a lot of scientists that have done some of this innovative research.

But also others who are part of the recovery process.

So, Pat Hobbs talked about sports and what role it plays-- - The Althetic Director at Rutgers.

- Correct, yes.

- So sports and, I interrupted you, but the one thing I'm going to ask if this, this is an area you've discussed, as you know my other life, I do a lot of leadership development.

And one of those areas where I do leadership development is with physicians and clinicians and to me and I won't get on my soap box, you can check out our leadership show for that.

The connection between leadership and stress is huge.

Meaning for frontline healthcare workers, nurses, doctors, respiratory therapists, they're leaders.

But in this pandemic, they've been asked to do things that are unthinkable, that most of us would never do.

What is being done to help them deal with that stress, those mental health issues, wellness issues, well past when we were cheering for them in the first year of the pandemic, because it doesn't go away.

- Right?

I think one of the most difficult situations we've dealt with is the duration of this event.

So a lot of the research and understanding about traumatic events, like a hurricane have a relatively short moment in time where the stress is strong.

And then you go quickly into a recovery phase.

We're still in the event now from the pandemic.

- Even at the end of 2021, when we're taping, we're still in it.

We can't tell ourselves it's in the rear view mirror.

It's not.

- We're still in it.

I mean, just this month where children five to 11 eligible to get vaccinated, which is a big part of our recovery.

Vaccination is a really important part of that.

But back to our healthcare workers, I think one of the things that we need to do is recognize that all of us, but in particular, our healthcare workers and our public health workers are going through post-traumatic events.

They need to understand that we are there to support them and work with them through this.

But all of us are dealing with this stress and anxiety, but then most of all, because they have been on the front lines and it's still not over.

- Are they seeking the stigma question?

Do you think enough healthcare workers on the front lines are seeking the help they need for emotional mental health issues?

- I don't think any of us are.

I think that as a broad community, we need to start to think about resiliency and behavioral and mental health support all the time in every environment that we're in.

I think there are services available for healthcare workers, nurse to nurse, physician to physician.

And those are really helpful, but making them accessible is important and making people feel like they should routinely participate in these things.

And those are formal programs.

But I think we can also think about just being kind and engaging in supportive conversations on a routine basis, going all the way into our school systems.

I think we should consider routine screening.

Kids have been out of school for a very long time and I have three little boys and they're in grammar school right now.

And I'll tell you, some of the teachers are telling stories about behavior in school that is a little more challenging than they would normally expect.

And so I think a lot of that comes to the fact that many of them missed a year of this normal behavior.

So when you're looking at children in school to healthcare workers on the front lines, I think we all collectively as a community need to think about being supportive of one another, seeking healthcare and behavioral health resources when we need them.

And just thinking about resiliency each and every day.

- Mary, do me a favor, give me a minute or less on the book that you and your colleagues are writing put out by Rutgers University Press.

What's the name of the book.

- "Junctures In Healthcare and Public Health."

I co-edited this volume of 12 women leaders, and some from New Jersey, who made incredible impacts in healthcare and public health.

I think that readers will be interested in examining their leadership from a gender and race perspective, but also in the impact on their lives.

I think every reader will be able to relate to someone in this book that made a significant impact on the American hospice movement, vaccines for children, maternal child health, food safety, and security.

It's a really interesting read.

I personally felt very related to Virginia Apgar, who is from New Jersey, many know her from the Apgar score, which is that first test that babies take when born, but she made an incredible contribution to the issues around newborn screening and prevention of birth defects on the national stage at the March of Dimes.

And so learning about these women, the impact that they made and their leadership style is really impactful to the reader.

And I think more broadly as we learn about how important leadership is and health as we've gone through these past years and how much of a difference it can make.

It's a really thoughtful narrative.

I think about many of these women.

- Mary O'Dowd, the former commissioner of health has a, just a few projects going on at Rutgers right now.

And we thank you for your contribution to the public health discourse and getting important information out there in the midst of a lot of confusion.

And dare I say misinformation, it's not editorializing it's a fact.

Mary, thanks so much.

- Thanks Steve.

- Great having you, I'm Steve Adubato stay with us will be right back.

(grand music) - [Announcer] To watch more State of Affairs with Steve Adubato, find us online and follow us on social media.

- That's right.

We have him back.

He's Ryan Haygood, President and CEO of New Jersey Institute for Social Justice.

It's been too long.

- Too long Steve, too long.

It's great to be back.

It's great to see you.

- It's great to see you.

Hey, listen, I say November 2nd, 2021 election.

You say what?

Play a word association with me.

- I say early voting for the first time in New Jersey, I say early voting provides voters for the first time ever to participate in souls to the polls.

I see voters inspired to get out and vote, and I see a very, very close election.

Reflecting a New Jersey that's deeply divided along a number of lines, including racial lines.

- Yeah, let's let's do that, right?

No one has done it yet.

No one has had the whatever, courage or whatever it takes, to put it on the table.

New Jersey's divided suburban, urban, obviously the rural piece, the north south Jersey piece is what it is.

But if you look at this vote in November 2nd, we're taping this at the end of 2021.

It was divided by race largely, correct?

And if so, why?

- Look, New Jersey is a fascinating state.

Really, really blessed to live here.

It's really, I think in some senses a tale of two states.

On one hand, New Jersey is one of the most racially diverse states in the country.

It's also a state where that racial diversity exists alongside some really entrenched residential segregation.

We're also a state of incredible wealth.

I think second only to Maryland.

- Connecticut.

- It might be Connecticut.

- Connecticut's up there.

- So we might be second or third to one of those.

- All right, go ahead.

- So we're a state where this incredible prosperity exists, but Steve, it also exists alongside some real punishing poverty.

And so we're a state of great complexity.

There's a beauty around our diversity and our prosperity, but that prosperity, that diversity exists along some real entrenched systematic segregation and structural racism.

And so I think what we saw play out in the 2021 election, in which every seat was up in the legislature, including for the governor, was a New Jersey that showed up and voted their values, whatever those values were, but those values exist alongside I think a real, real broad racial spectrum.

- Hold on one second.

Because I want to talk about the racial wealth gap in a second.

Do you believe- not across the board, because generalizing is dangerous, but that, that in large part, there's a black agenda and a white agenda?

Or black and brown agenda and then a not?

Are there separate agendas or does everyone want and need childcare for their kids so they can work.

Everyone wants to be able to be confident that they can get a paycheck every two weeks, healthcare for the- Is it really they're two separate agendas?

- Well, so here, I think I draw real inspiration from what the- And you and I have talked about this offline, but what the 2020 census showed us right?

That New Jersey, according to the data from the census, will soon be a majority people of color state.

People of color today are about 48% of the population in New Jersey.

And I think what that says to your question is that we have an incredible opportunity to welcome into the democratic fold, into our state, new voices.

New racially diverse voices in which we can think about how we all exist, how we all flourish together.

But, we also, I think exist in a New Jersey, in which we all stand on a foundation that's cracked.

And these are real cracks of structural racism going back to our founding.

Now, Steve, you and I, we did not create those cracks of structural racism.

We inherited those from previous generations, but I do think this is a real moment for us to be honest about what the foundation looks like and why it's cracked and how do we collectively, to your point, begin to repair those cracks.

- But at the same time, Ryan, I've said this to you before offline and on the air, our conversations have seemed similar, whether we're on the air or off.

There are a fair number of friends of mine, who I grew up with in Essex county.

I'm born and raised in Newark, as you know.

But a lot of these guys born and raised in the same neighborhood and now live in the suburbs.

A lot of them voted for Trump.

They voted for Ciattarelli.

A fair number of them, when it comes to the issues you're talking about, they'll still argue that yes, of course there's "racism", but structural racism?

Institutional racism?

My kid had a hard time getting it to such and such school.

My parents came from Italy and my grandparents came from Italy and there is not the same appetite, in my view, for the discussion you and I have had for 10 years now.

But a lot of folks- Or am I- Why you smiling like that?

Am I that far off?

- That's why I think you're essential to New Jersey.

And I'm not just trying to, as young folks will- - You can go ahead, kiss up.

I like it, go ahead.

- I'm not trying to gas you up, but I do think that one of the, one of the challenges that we have in our state, right?

Is that we like to think of ourselves largely as a progressive bastion, right?

A beacon for democracy.

And that's certainly part of our story.

I don't think as a state, going back to our founding, we've really ever grappled with who we actually are.

So at the organization where I work, the New Jersey Institute for Social Justice, I'm incredibly blessed to work alongside an incredible team of lawyers, PhDs, community organizers, advocates- - And it's a diverse team.

Racially, culturally, gender, everything.

- Right, the team at the Institute reflects the broader diversity of our state.

It has to, to do the work that we do.

But we spend- as you know, Steve, we spend a lot of time looking at the data, looking at racial disparities.

Which we think reflect real deep racial inequality.

And the reason those numbers matter is because they go back to the founding of New Jersey.

We were a state that at its founding provided 150 acres of land to every English, white settling family.

We're also a state that gave each of those white English, settling families, an additional 150 acres of land for every enslaved black person that worked on that land.

That's how we developed our system of property in New Jersey, in a very racialized way.

So why you say- "So Ryan, why does that matter in 2021?

You're going back 300 years."

The reason that matters is because we began with a very racialized system of property and defining property, who could own property, who couldn't.

And we carried that forward through a series of practices and policies over time.

Including redlining in cities like where I live.

So here's how that shows up today at 2021.

In New Jersey today, as we mentioned, is one of the wealthiest states in the country.

The individual net-wealth for white adults, individual net-wealth, white adults, $106,000.

That's among the highest individual net-wealth from anywhere in the country.

But by staggering really stark, shameful contrast, the individual net-wealth for black adults is $179 United States dollars.

Now here's the thing, right?

That number causes your head to explode.

Less than it costs, certainly to have a laptop, in which we're having this conversation.

Less than the cost of an iPhone.

Really, less than the cost of groceries for a small family.

And what we argue at the Institute is that those numbers are by design, right?

We have built a system in New Jersey that has racialized home ownership.

And because home ownership is the primary driver of wealth, the individual, the median net wealth of black families is far less than white folks by design.

So that statewide, about 80% of white people in New Jersey own their homes, versus about 41% of black people.

Now see, the thing is, it's not that black folks are allergic to wealth.

Don't want wealth, don't want to build wealth.

It's because we designed this system to advantage some and disadvantage others.

And that is part of the foundation that we stand on this crack.

- I've got a minute left.

Is that much of the reason why you are pushing for a study on reparations?

You're not calling for reparations, but you're saying we need to understand and have a real discussion about reparations because if we don't- - Well that's the precious moment we have Steve.

You and I have been having this very conversation for a decade.

- Many years.

- A decade.

Now comes the need for us to have that conversation formally in New Jersey.

So that's why we stood with assembly woman Shavonda Sumter, Senator Cunningham, almost every black elected official and supportive white electeds, to introduce a "New Jersey Reparations Task Force" bill.

Quickly, Steve, it would do two things.

One, it would have this conversation.

People don't know that New Jersey was considered the slave state of the north.

Why?

And then a related piece, part two.

So what did we do in view of the fact that we live in the shadow and the enduring impact of slavery?

What kinds of policies and practices do we need to invest to repair that harm, to fill in the cracks of our foundation, and together to build a new one?

That's the work that's before us.

It's a precious opportunity and we can't afford to miss it.

- I enjoy talking to you.

- Always.

- I don't- Well, we'll talk offline.

- Looking forward to it, thanks Steve- - You know what you do?

More than anything else, my friend?

You get me to think.

And I'm confident and I'm not the only one.

You're getting a lot of people to think right now.

- That's what we're here for.

- That's it.

- Hey, Ryan, you take care of yourself.

Thanks, my friend.

- Take care, Steve.

Be well.

- Stay with us, we'll be right back.

(grand music) - [Announcer] To watch more State of Affairs with Steve Adubato, find us online and follow us on social media.

- We're honored to be joined by State Senate, Republican leader, the minority leader as we speak right now He is Steven Oroho, and Senator thank you so much for joining us, you're joining us on another, joining us on another segment but I want to talk to you about big picture politics and Republican party.

We have Chris Christie that we're going to be interviewing, just came out with a new book.

This will be dated.

It won't be so new at the time.

And he said, "The Republican party can't look back to 2020.

It's got to look ahead."

He never talks about Donald Trump, about, by an by name when he say that, but he talks about, "Stop talking about 2020.

Let's talk about Biden and the Democrats and what they're doing in Washington.

And that's our, ticket to success."

You say?

- I did.

listen, I do believe in completely, you know, looking forward is a ticket to success, when Republicans had some of their best years under Ronald Reagan.

And what he did is he gave everybody, you know, the feeling of, you know, that they could do exceptionally well, a new day in America.

And I do think that, you know, that kind of, people like to have the, you know, an optimistic outlook, people don't like to be pessimistic or anything like that And they're also, I think people like us to be classy Republicans, classy Democrats.

And I don't think they necessarily like all the, you know, fighting that they see on TV and whatnot.

I blame it on, I do think that most of us, the wide majority of us in elected office in Trenton, we are very, you know collegial.

We disagree, but we disagree, you know professionally.

And I think it's incumbent upon Republicans to talk about the ideas of, you know, personal, individual responsibility, personal freedoms, and the idea of, listen.

I've been talking about the finance issues of bringing capital into New Jersey because we lost our competitive, you know, position.

And New Jersey used to be very, very competitive.

- Hey, Steve, let me ask you this.

I don't like, we've known each other a long time.

I apologize for being so informal Senator, - It's okay, no, call me Steve - But Steve let me ask you something, every time I've interviewed you, you're always, and again, classy would be a word I'll editorialize on my end, classy, dignified, respectful, courteous.

And you know, it doesn't seem to matter to you whether someone agrees or disagrees with you.

But here's the question I'm going to ask.

There are members of Congress that have actually threatened violence against other members of Congress who have put out names.

I'll give you an example.

Chris Smith, the Republican, a conservative Republican, been in Congress for how many years?

God knows how many years, decades.

He happened to vote for the infrastructure bill that Joe Biden put out because he thought it was good for the district.

He thought, Chris Smith, thought it would be good for his district.

And there were some Republicans like Margaret Taylor Smith.

I got her name wrong, Margaret Taylor Green, I'm sorry, who put out his name with 13 other Republicans who said, he's a traitor.

That's the opposite of everything you've been about, How the heck do we tone that down Senator?

- Steven, we have to tone it down by, by hopefully presenting the example of what we should be.

And I'll go back to what my mom, I think if I ever say anything like that, my 89 year old mother would be on a phone saying, "Steven behave yourself."

And I'll go right back to, to that say, and listen, if you know, she said many many times to me, "Steve, if you don't have anything good to say, don't say it", you know, and, and be in the idea of, Hey, I try to, I try to live my life as a Christian.

You know, somebody goes to church all the time, by two main rules, "Love your God, and love your neighbor."

And if you do those things, quite frankly, everything else will take care of itself.

And that doesn't mean I'm always going to agree with people, but how you do it matters.

- I'm sorry.

Senator, why are we make, why are we making those who disagree with us, the devil, our enemy, Some are-- - We should not, we should not - But we're doing it so much.

And how the heck do we begin to turn that around?

- You know, and you know, Steve, by the example of, of, other, and, I would have to say that that is not, unfortunately, that's what gets played out in, in the media.

- But are we a part of it Steve?

Do we contribute to it?

- I would, in some ways I would have to say yes, because, that's sometimes that's the, you know, what the audience, you know, kind of finds interesting.

They talk about, unfortunately, you know, to talk about things that get done and are nice and you know, people being nice to each other, doesn't necessarily, so you see.

- Or even respectful, respectful too.

By the way, on public television, I appreciate what the Senator said, but we're not into all that heat.

But at the same time, we have people, I disagree all the time.

They're just respectful to each other as if that's some novel idea, you've been doing that for 30, 40 years Senator.

- Exactly, but you know Steve that's the, that's the wide majority of people.

It's not, I'd say the minority, the small minority of people on, on either side, you know, can be that way.

But for the most part, for the most part, I haven't witnessed those kinds, and I would say that kind of stuff should stop, it should stop.

- You know in New Jersey State House.

So people understand it's got a few seconds left.

It's one thing in Congress, It's one thing about January 6th, that is not the tone and the tenor and the State House in New Jersey.

You're, you're crystal clear on that?

- Not at all.

I would, when I go down to a meeting we, I make it a point to go around and say "Hello" to all my colleagues, the staff, and the people in the audience and stuff.

And I very, I have never seen anything like that down, down in Trenton.

And quite frankly, it should stop.

We should go, we should be, you know, on all sides should be respectful.

That's what we're elected to be.

- Yeah.

That is State Senator, Steve Oroho.

He is the Republican leader in the State Senate, and we look forward to having him on in the future for civil-spirited discourse, where issues are talked about Senator all the best.

Thank you.

- Thank you, Steve very much, we appreciate it.

I'm Steve.

Adubato more importantly, That is State Senator Steve Oroho.

Thanks for watching, we'll see you next time.

- [Narrator] State of Affairs with Steve Adubato Is a production of the Caucus Educational Corporation.

Funding has been provided by MD Advantage Insurance Company.

RWJBarnabas Health.

Wells Fargo.

Community FoodBank of New Jersey.

Johnson & Johnson.

Suez North America.

The New Jersey Education Association.

The Russell Berrie Foundation.

And by The Adler Aphasia Center.

Promotional support provided by The New Jersey Business & Industry Association.

And by Northjersey.com and Local IQ.

Part of the USA Today Network.

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