FUNDING FOR NEW MEXICO InFOCUS PROVIDED BY THE  MCCUNE CHARITABLE FOUNDATION.

AND VIEWERS LIKE YOU.

Gene: THIS WEEK ON NEW  MEXICO InFOCUS, ON THE HEELS OF A NEW REPORT ON  CLIMATE CHANGE, WE EXPLORE HOW TV METEOROLOGISTS COVER  CLIMATE.

Jorge: WE'RE GETTING A  BETTER UNDERSTANDING, AND AN UNDERSTANDING THAT  SCIENTISTS KNOW WHAT THEY'RE TALKING ABOUT.

THEY'VE BEEN STUDYING THIS FOR DECADES.

Gene: AND WE REVISIT A AN IMPORTANT CONVERSATION  ABOUT HOW GUN VIOLENCE IMPACTS CHILDREN.

NEW MEXICO InFOCUS STARTS  NOW.

Gene:   THANKS FOR JOINING US THIS WEEK.

I'M YOUR HOST, GENE GRANT.

GUN VIOLENCE AND COVID-19,  TWO HUGE THEMES FOR US THIS WEEK AS A MIDDLE SCHOOL  STUDENT IN ALBUQUERQUE APPARENTLY KILLS ANOTHER  CHILD ON SCHOOL GROUNDS, AND AS THE DELTA VARIANT OF  COVID-19 FORCES A RETURN TO INDOOR MASKING.

WE'LL ALSO TALK ABOUT CENSUS NUMBERS RELEASED LAST WEEK  THAT SHOW NEW MEXICANS ARE LEAVING SMALL TOWNS FOR  CITIES, AND THAT THE STATE CONTINUES TO LEAD THE NATION  IN RESIDENTS WHO IDENTIFY AS HISPANIC OR LATINX.

WE'LL START WITH COVID-19.

HERE'S THE LINE.

Gene: IT'S BACK TO MASKS.

WITH CASES OF THE COVID-19 DELTA VARIANT SPIKING AMONG  UNVACCINATED NEW MEXICANS, THE GOVERNOR HAS ORDERED ALL  OF US, VACCINATED OR NOT, TO MASK UP.

THE GOVERNOR'S LATEST PUBLIC HEALTH ORDER ALSO HAS  VACCINATION REQUIREMENTS FOR SOME HEALTH CARE WORKERS AND  SCHOOL STAFF.

HERE TO OFFER SOME THOUGHTS  ABOUT THE ORDER AND THE REACTION TO IT IS OUR LINE  OPINION PANEL.

FROM THE CARLSBAD  CURRENT-ARGUS AND THE USA TODAY NETWORK OF NEWSPAPERS  IN SOUTHEAST NEW MEXICO, NEWS DIRECTOR AND EDITOR  JESSICA ONSUREZ RETURNS.

GOOD TO SEE YOU, JESSICA.

ATTORNEY AND LINE REGULAR SOPHIE MARTIN IS BACK IN OUR  ZOOM ROOM.

AND AS FORMER NEW MEXICO  HOUSE MINORITY WHIP, HE'S RIGHT THERE, DAN FOLEY,  ANOTHER REGULAR FACE ON OUR PANEL.

NOW, JESSICA, LET'S GET GOING HERE.

THE SOUTHEAST PART OF THE STATE IS HOME TO SOME OF THE  LOWEST VACCINATION RATES, AS WE ALL KNOW, AND NOT  COINCIDENTLY SOME OF THE FASTEST GROWING CASE COUNTS  FOR COVID-19 IN NEW MEXICO.

WHAT'S THE REACTION TO THE  GOVERNOR'S MANDATE?

Jessica: WE DON'T LIKE  IT, AND WE LIKELY WON'T DO IT.

IT SEEMS TO BE THE -- YOU KNOW, WE IN SOUTHERN NEW  MEXICO, SINCE THE BEGINNING OF THIS PANDEMIC, HAVE BEEN  VERY VOCAL ABOUT THE MANDATES THAT HAVE COME FROM  SANTA FE TO PROTECT.

WELL, I MEAN, FOR  EVERYBODY'S GOOD, RIGHT.

THESE THINGS ARE TO PROTECT  US AND TO PROTECT THE COMMUNITIES THAT WE LIVE IN,  AND THE REST OF THE STATE, TO PROTECT OUR BUSINESSES  AND OUR ECONOMY.

BUT WE STILL FEEL THAT IT'S  A BIT OF AN INFRINGEMENT, IF YOU ASK MOST PEOPLE AROUND  HERE.

BUT YOU ARE TALKING ABOUT A  CONSERVATIVE PART OF THE STATE THAT HAS SOME PRETTY  BIG ALREADY ISSUES WITH SANTA FE AND THE GOVERNOR  AND DEMOCRATIC POLITICS.

(CELLPHONE RINGING)  Gene: THAT'S ALL RIGHT.

THAT HAPPENS.

YOU'RE A BUSY NEWSWOMAN: Jessica: MY APOLOGIES.

SO, YOU KNOW, WE HAD EXPECTED THAT THERE WOULD BE  STRONGER MANDATES COMING, AND WHEN YOU'RE ASKING  SOMEBODY TO JUST WEAR A FACE MASK INDOORS, IF YOU'RE  ASKING A PARENT TO PUT A MASK ON A CHILD AS THEY HEAD  TO SCHOOL, YOU'LL LIKELY GET SOME PUSHBACK IN SOUTHERN  NEW MEXICO.

BUT I THINK FOR THE MOST  PART, LOCAL OFFICIALS AT THE COUNTY AND THE CITY LEVEL,  AND SCHOOL OFFICIALS, HAVE SAID THAT THEY WILL ABIDE BY  THESE NEW MANDATES.

Gene: INTERESTING POINT.

SOPHIE, I'M INTERESTED IN YOUR OPINION ON THIS.

IT'S NOT A POPULAR DECISION BY THE GOVERNOR, NO DOUBT  ABOUT THAT, BUT IT'S NOT A SURPRISE, EITHER.

IS IT FAIR TO SAY THIS WAS A PREDICTABLE DECISION?

Sophie: I THINK GIVEN THE RISING RATES AND THE  NEWS THAT WE'VE SEEN NATIONWIDE AND LOCALLY ABOUT  THE DELTA VARIANT AND COVID, AND I THINK NOT JUST HOW  QUICKLY IT SPREADS AMONGST UNVACCINATED INDIVIDUALS,  BUT ALSO THE FACT THAT IT APPEARS TO SPREAD PRETTY  QUICKLY AMONGST VACCINATED INDIVIDUALS, AS WELL,  ALTHOUGH FOR THE MOST PART WITH DIFFERENT IMPACTS IN  TERMS OF THEIR HEALTH FOR VACCINATED FOLKS, NO, I  DON'T THINK IT'S A REAL SURPRISE.

AND MOST OF WHAT I'M SEEING IS KIND OF A RESIGNATION.

YOU KNOW, YEAH, IT SEEMED LIKE THIS WAS PROBABLY  COMING, SOMETHING LIKE THIS.

WHAT MAY BE A LITTLE BIT  MORE SURPRISING TO PEOPLE, THOUGH, ARE THE VARIETY OF  MANDATES RELATING TO VACCINES.

I THINK THAT IS PROBABLY WHERE WE'RE GOING TO SEE  MORE PUSHBACK IN THE COURTS.

YOU KNOW, I'M NOT A BETTING  WOMAN, BUT SO FAR IT SEEMS TO ME THAT THE MANDATES  REGARDING VACCINES THAT HAVE COME OUT ACROSS THE COUNTRY  AND IN NEW MEXICO HAVE BEEN PRETTY CAREFULLY TAILORED TO  COVER THOSE GROUPS THAT STATE GOVERNMENT -- AT LEAST  IN OUR CASE IT'S STATE GOVERNMENT -- DOES HAVE SOME  AUTHORITY OVER, AND SO I SUSPECT THAT THOSE MANDATES  MAY SURVIVE COURT CHALLENGES.

BUT I ALSO EXPECT THOSE CHALLENGES ARE TO COME.

Gene: INTERESTING POINTS THERE.

HEY, DANIEL, THE GOVERNOR ALSO IMPLEMENTED A HARD AND  FAST VACCINE MANDATE FOR SOME HOSPITAL WORKERS AND  THOSE IN CONGREGANT CARE FACILITIES, LIKE NURSING  HOMES.

THERE ARE FEW EXCEPTIONS AND  A TIGHT TIMELINE.

DO YOU EXPECT MOST PROVIDERS  TO ABIDE?

MEANING, WE'VE GONE THROUGH  THIS LAP ONCE, AND NOW PROVIDERS -- THEY GOT PRETTY  BEAT UP THE FIRST LAP AROUND.

IS IT GOING TO BE A DIFFERENT ATTITUDE THIS  TIME?

Dan: I THINK THERE'S A  DIFFERENCE BETWEEN WHAT THE PROVIDERS ARE GOING TO DO  AND WHAT THE EMPLOYEES ARE GOING TO WANT TO DO.

I THINK YOU MAY GET A LOT OF BUY-IN FROM BUSINESSES  SAYING, OKAY, MAYBE WE SHOULD DO THIS.

I'M NOT SURE YOU'RE GOING TO GET A LOT OF BUY-IN FROM --  YOU KNOW, BY THIS TIME, IF YOU HAVEN'T BEEN VACCINATED  BY NOW, I'M NOT SURE THERE'S MUCH THAT'S GOING TO  ENERGIZE SOMEONE TO GO GET VACCINATED.

THE HOLD-OUTS SEEM TO BE PEOPLE THAT DON'T BELIEVE  THEY SHOULD GET VACCINATED.

AND YOU KNOW, QUITE  HONESTLY, THE HANDLING OF THIS THING SO FAR JUST KEEPS  LEADING THESE PEOPLE TO HAVE MORE AND MORE TREPIDATION  TOWARDS DOING THIS.

I MEAN, WE WERE TOLD, GET  THE VACCINATION, AND WE GET THE VACCINATION, AND THEN  YOU TOLD US NOW YOU'RE PART OF ALL THE MANDATES EVEN  THOUGH YOU ARE VACCINATED.

NOW THEY'RE TELLING YOU  YOU'VE GOT TO GET ANOTHER BOOSTER SHOT, POTENTIALLY,  IF YOU'VE BEEN VACCINATED.

THE MESSAGE HAS JUST BEEN  HORRIFIC.

SO I THINK THAT NOT ONLY ARE  YOU GOING TO CONTINUE TO GET PUSHBACK FROM THE FOLKS WHO  REFUSED IT, I CAN TELL YOU FROM A LOT OF PEOPLE I KNOW  WHO WERE EARLY ON VACCINATED, FOLKS WHO HAVE  NOT BEEN ONES THAT HAVE BEEN LIKE, OH, THIS IS A  CONSPIRACY, THIS IS A WAY SOMEBODY'S TRYING TO TAKE  OVER THE WORLD, THERE'S A LOT OF PEOPLE NOW THAT I'VE  TALKED TO THAT ARE LIKE, YEAH, SOMETHING'S WRONG  HERE.

THIS IS JUST NOT RIGHT.

AND SO I JUST THINK THAT YOU'RE GOING TO SEE A MORE  GROWING SENTIMENT, AND I'M NOT SURE OF THE ANSWER.

Gene: DAN, LET ME ASK YOU THIS, THOUGH, TOO.

IS THERE A RISK -- I MEAN, I'M SEEING ON FACEBOOK A LOT  OF FOLKS, PROVIDERS, SAYING THEY'RE GOING TO LEAVE THE  STATE.

YOU KNOW, PEOPLE WHO WORK IN  HOSPITALS ARE SAYING, I'VE GOT A LOT OF OPTIONS EITHER  DIRECTION, ALL THREE DIRECTIONS OUT OF HERE  ACROSS THE STATE LINES.

Dan: YOU KNOW, WE HAVE A  TOUGH TIME ATTRACTING HEALTH CARE WORKERS, ESPECIALLY  SPECIALISTS.

I MEAN, YOU START TALKING  ABOUT -- LIKE, IF YOU LOOK FOR A PEDIATRIC NEUROLOGIST  IN NEW MEXICO, AIN'T HAPPENING.

YOU'RE NOT GETTING IT.

Gene: I HEAR THAT, BUT  ON MASK USE, IS THAT ENOUGH TO DRIVE SOMEONE OUT OF THE  STATE?

Dan: I THINK THAT MASK  USE IN CONJUNCTION WITH THE CONSISTENT BARRAGE IN  PEOPLE'S MINDS OF AN EROSION OF THEIR FREEDOM AND NOT  GETTING A STRAIGHT ANSWER IS I THINK SOMETHING THAT'S  GOING TO CAUSE PEOPLE -- ESPECIALLY FOR US WHEN YOU  CAN GO LEFT OR RIGHT FROM NEW MEXICO AND GO TO A STATE  THAT'S DEFINITELY NOT IN THE SAME MOVEMENT AS NEW MEXICO  IS.

ESPECIALLY IF YOU START  LOOKING AT THE SOUTHEASTERN PART OF THE STATE, YOU CAN  LIVE IN CARLSBAD OR YOU CAN LIVE IN LUBBOCK.

THERE'S A 50-MINUTE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN THE TWO,  AND ONE OF THEM CHANGES THE OUTCOMES ON WHAT YOU'RE  ALLOWED TO DO.

I THINK IT'S GOING TO EFFECT  PLACES LIKE THAT DRAMATICALLY.

Gene: I'VE GOT TO SWING BACK TO JESSICA ON THAT  NOTE, FOR SURE.

FIRST OF ALL, ON A PERSONAL  NOTE, ARE YOU COMFORTABLE WHERE YOU LIVE SEEING PEOPLE  ALL UNMASKED LIKE THAT?

Jessica: YOU KNOW,  YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT, FOR AS BIG AS CARLSBAD IS AND AS  IMPORTANT A ROLE AS SOUTHEASTERN NEW MEXICO  PLAYS IN THE STATE, YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT A RELATIVELY  SMALL COMMUNITY WHERE PEOPLE TALK TO EACH OTHER AND KNOW  EACH OTHER AND CONSIDER EACH OTHER FAMILY AND FRIENDS AND  COLLEAGUES.

I CAN SAY ON A PERSONAL  LEVEL, I AM COMFORTABLE BACK  AT WORK, I AM COMFORTABLE AMONG MY FAMILY, I'M  COMFORTABLE AMONG MY COMMUNITY.

BUT THAT'S BECAUSE I'M AMONG PEOPLED THAT I KNOW AND  WHOSE SITUATIONS I UNDERSTAND, AND WHO HAVE  BEEN FOR THE MOST PART VERY ACCOMMODATING WHEN IT COMES  TO DOING WHAT'S REQUIRED TO KEEP EACH OTHER SAFE.

SO WE'RE TALKING ABOUT A VERY RURAL COMMUNITY, AS  WELL.

SO WE HAVE FAMILIES WITHIN  THIS COMMUNITY WHO DO AS DAN SAID, RIGHT.

THEIR RESPONSE TO ALL OF THIS IS, WE DON'T BELIEVE  YOU, WE DON'T TRUST WHAT YOU'RE TELLING US ABOUT WHY  IT'S IMPORTANT WE DO THESE THINGS, AND WE'RE JUST NOT  GOING TO COMPLY.

Gene: SOPHIE, THE BIG  ONE I'M HEARING A LOT OF CHATTER ABOUT IS YOU'VE GOT  TO HAVE A MASK TO GET INTO THE STATE FAIR, AND A LOT OF  FOLKS -- IT'S A BIG ONE.

Sophie: WELL, IT'S NOT  JUST A MASK, RIGHT.

AM I RIGHT?

Gene: AND VACCINATED.

Sophie: RIGHT, A VACCINE  OR A RECENT NEGATIVE TEST.

YOU KNOW, IT'S FUNNY, JUST  AS A SIDE NOTE, I HAVEN'T HEARD MUCH IN NEW MEXICO,  AND MAYBE I'VE JUST MISSED IT, ABOUT THE FACT THAT YOU  CAN NOW GET ONE-OFF AT HOME VACCINE TESTS THROUGH DRUG  STORES, THROUGH AMAZON, ETC.

AND SO IT IS NOT JUST THAT  YOU HAVE TO DRIVE THROUGH THE STATE FAIRGROUNDS, WHICH  I THINK ACTUALLY YOU CAN'T DO ANYMORE.

Gene: HOW IS THAT GOING TO GO DOWN AT THE GATE?

Dan: THEY'RE NOT VERY GOOD, THOUGH.

I MEAN, THE RATIO -- A FRIEND OF MINE HAS TO DO  THEM FOR HIS WORK, AND THEY'RE WRONG MORE THAN  THEY'RE RIGHT.

Sophie: THAT'S NOT  ACTUALLY QUITE CORRECT.

NO, THEY'RE NOT AS GOOD AS  SOME OF THE OTHER TESTS, BUT THE ADVANTAGE -- YOU KNOW,  NOT THAT I'M SELLING THESE -- BUT THE ADVANTAGE  IS THAT YOU GET AN ANSWER WHILE YOU'RE STILL AT HOME.

BUT I THINK THE STATE FAIR IS ONE OF THOSE EXAMPLES OF  THE GOVERNOR BELIEVES THAT SHE HAS THE POWER OVER  STATE-SPONSORED ACTIVITIES AND IS GOING TO USE THAT.

WHAT WE HAVE SEEN IN SOME CASES IS THAT WHEN FOR  PEOPLE IT BECOMES MORE INCONVENIENT NOT TO HAVE THE  VACCINE THAN TO HAVE THE VACCINE, AND IF THEY DON'T  HAVE A STRONG IDEOLOGICAL REASON FOR NOT GETTING IT,  THEY'LL GO AHEAD AND GET IT.

SO WE DO SEE SOME OF THAT.

ONE THING THAT I THINK IS REALLY INTERESTING THAT DAN  BROUGHT UP JUST A MOMENT AGO IS THIS ISSUE OF THE  BOOSTER.

SO I WAS SPEAKING TO A  PHARMACIST IN ANOTHER STATE THE OTHER DAY AND HE SAID,  WE'RE CHECKING REALLY CAREFULLY TO MAKE SURE YOU  REALLY QUALIFY FOR A BOOSTER, AND I CHECKED ON  THE STATE'S WEBSITE, NEW MEXICO'S WEBSITE TODAY.

IF YOU HAVEN'T ALREADY TOLD THEM THAT YOU HAVE ONE OF  THOSE PREEXISTING CONDITIONS, THEY WON'T SIGN  YOU UP FOR A THIRD SHOT AT THIS POINT.

Gene: OH, WOW.

Sophie: WE KNOW THAT  OVER A MILLION PEOPLE HAVE ALREADY GONE AHEAD AND  SOMEHOW FINAGLED, OR IN CERTAIN CASES HAVE GOTTEN  THEIR DOCTOR'S OKAY TO GET A BOOSTER SHOT, BUT THERE DOES  APPEAR TO BE QUITE A BIT OF DEMAND AROUND THAT THIRD  SHOT.

Gene: INTERESTING POINT  THERE.

Dan: GENE, I THINK,  BEFORE YOU GO, I THINK IT'S ALSO IMPORTANT TO SAY, TOO,  THAT WE'RE HAVING THIS CONVERSATION ABOUT PEOPLE  NOT WANTING TO GET VACCINATED, AND AT THE VERY  SAME TIME BOTH OF OUR U.S.

SENATORS SAID THAT TO COME  INTO THIS COUNTRY, YOU DON'T HAVE TO BE VACCINATED, YOU  DON'T GET TO BE TESTED.

BUT YET NEW MEXICO CITIZENS,  WE'RE GOING TO SEND DOWN A MANDATE THAT SAYS YOU CAN'T  DO THINGS AND YOU HAVE TO BE TESTED.

THAT'S THE KIND OF MESSAGE THAT PEOPLE ARE SAYING, HOLD  ON A SECOND.

IF WE'VE GOT THIS RUN ON THE  BORDER AND YOU'RE LETTING PEOPLE IN, AND THEY DON'T  HAVE TO BE VACCINATED AND THEY DON'T HAVE TO BE  TESTED, BUT YOU'RE TELLING ME THAT I HAVE TO BE  VACCINATED AND I HAVE TO BE TESTED BEFORE I CAN GO TO  SCHOOL, BEFORE I CAN GO TO MY JOB, BEFORE I CAN GO OUT  TO DINNER, THAT'S I THINK THE KIND OF MESSAGE THAT IS  CONSISTENTLY DIVIDING PEOPLE IN THE STATE AND THEY'RE  SAYING, ENOUGH IS ENOUGH.

Gene: GOOD LAST NOTE  THERE.

MORE TO COME ON THIS FRONT  IN THE WEEKS AND MONTHS AHEAD.

NOW, WE'LL HAVE TO LEAVE IT THERE.

WE'RE ON THE CRIME BEAT WHEN THE LINE RETURNS.

Dr. Carroll: WHAT WE KNOW IS THAT YOU DO NOT HAVE  TO BE THE DIRECT VICTIM OF A VIOLENT ACT TO BE  TRAUMATIZED BY IT.

IN FACT, THERE'S A LOT OF  EVIDENCE THAT THE WITNESSES TO THE VIOLENT ACT ARE  SOMETIMES ACTUALLY TRAUMATIZED MORE SEVERELY  THAN THE VICTIM THEMSELF.

SO IN MANY WAYS, WITNESSING  IS PART OF WHAT PREDISPOSES YOU TO BE PROFOUNDLY  VICTIMIZED.

Gene:   BROADCAST METEOROLOGIST JORGE TORRES  KNOWS THE WEATHER OF THE SOUTHWEST.

HE'S WORKED IN EL PASO, ALBUQUERQUE, AND NOW  PHOENIX, WHERE HE'S AT ABC-15 ARIZONA.

HE ALSO UNDERSTANDS THE CLIMATE AND THE IMPORTANCE  OF COVERING CLIMATE CHANGE FOR LOCAL AUDIENCES.

NOW, ENVIRONMENT CORRESPONDENT LAURA PASKUS  CAUGHT UP WITH MR. TORRES, WHO MANY OF YOU MIGHT  RECOGNIZE FROM HIS YEARS AT KOB CHANNEL 4 HERE IN  ALBUQUERQUE.

THE TWO TALK ABOUT THE  CLIMATE IMPACTS IN THE SOUTHWEST AND THE CHALLENGES  AND REWARDS OF COVERING CLIMATE CHANGE ON THE LOCAL  NEWS.

Laura: JORGE TORRES,  YOU'RE AT ABC-15 IN ARIZONA NOW, BUT OUR VIEWERS WILL  KNOW YOU FROM KOB CHANNEL 4 HERE IN ALBUQUERQUE.

WELCOME TO NEW MEXICO InFOCUS.

IT IS GREAT TO SEE YOU.

Jorge: LIKEWISE, LAURA.

GREAT TO BE CHATTING WITH YOU AND EVERYONE WATCHING  FROM NEW MEXICO, WHICH WAS MY HOME FOR A LONG BUT  ENJOYABLE SIX YEARS.

Laura: WE'RE REALLY GLAD  TO HAVE YOU.

SO THE INTERGOVERNMENTAL  PANEL ON CLIMATE CHANGE CAME OUT WITH ITS ASSESSMENT  REPORT LAST WEEK.

I'M CURIOUS, HOW DID ABC-15  COVER THAT REPORT?

AND EVEN THOUGH SOUTHERN  ARIZONA AND NEW MEXICO DO HAVE SOME DIFFERENCES, WHAT  ARE THE BIG TAKE-HOMES FOR THE U.S. SOUTHWEST?

Jorge: WELL, ONE OF THE TAKE-AWAYS THAT WE SAW FROM  THE REPORT IS THAT HUMAN ACTIVITIES ARE INFLUENCING  WHAT'S HAPPENING AROUND US.

INCREASED CARBON DIOXIDE  EMISSIONS ARE WARMING THE PLANET, AND WE SEE THAT  PREVALENTLY HERE IN THE SOUTHWEST.

WE'RE TALKING PROLONGED HEAT WAVES, PROLONGED DROUGHTS,  AND THAT'S IMPACTING ALL OF US.

AND WE DID THAT STORY IN TWO WAYS.

WE TALKED TO ONE OF THE AUTHORS OF THE IPCC REPORT,  WHO HAPPENS TO BE A UNIVERSITY OF ARIZONA  PROFESSOR.

SO THAT BROUGHT IT CLOSER TO  THE LOCAL PERSPECTIVE, AS TO HOW SOMEONE WHO STUDIES  CLIMATE HERE AND HOW IT IMPACTS US.

AND THEN WE FOLLOWED IT UP WITH PRESIDENT BIDEN'S  INFRASTRUCTURE BILL THAT'S GOING THROUGH CONGRESS AS WE  SPEAK AND SOME OF THE CLIMATE-RESILIENT  IMPROVEMENT PROJECTS THAT ARE PLANNED WITHIN THAT  BILL, AND HOW THAT WOULD IMPACT ARIZONA AND PEOPLE IN  THE SOUTHWEST, TOO.

Laura: SO MORE BROADLY  SPEAKING, HOW DOES ABC-15 INCORPORATE CLIMATE CHANGE  INTO ITS NEWS COVERAGE, AND KIND OF WHAT IS YOUR ROLE AS  A METEOROLOGIST IN SORT OF EITHER WORKING WITH THE NEWS  TEAM OR PITCHING STORIES TO THE NEWS TEAM?

Jorge: WELL, AS A METEOROLOGIST, I'M ALSO  WHAT'S KNOWN AS A STATION SCIENTIST.

I HELP BRIDGE THE GAP BETWEEN THE SCIENCE AND THE  COMMUNITY AS TO WHAT THIS ALL MEANS FOR US.

AND MY JOB HERE IS TO OBVIOUSLY TALK ABOUT  WEATHER, BUT ALSO TALK ABOUT HOW WEATHER AND CLIMATE PLAY  A ROLE IN OUR LIVES AND CONNECTING THE DOTS.

OVER THE PAST FEW WEEKS, WE'VE NOTICED SOME  SIGNIFICANT CHANGES IN OUR FORECAST HERE IN ARIZONA  WITH THE MONSOON.

WE'RE SEEING A LOT MORE  STORMS COMPARED TO THE PAST TWO YEARS, WHEN WE HAD  ABSOLUTELY NOTHING.

AND WHAT I DO IS CONNECT THE  DOTS.

HOW IS CLIMATE CHANGE AND  WHAT'S HAPPENING NOW CONNECTED?

AND WE'RE SEEING, AT LEAST FOR THE PAST FEW WEEKS HERE,  WE'RE SEEING MORE STORMS.

WITH THE ATMOSPHERE HOLDING  MORE WATER, BECAUSE IT'S WARMER, A LOT MORE RAIN IS  COMING, WHICH LEADS TO EXTREME AND DEVASTATING  FLOODS.

AND WE'VE HAD,  UNFORTUNATELY, SOME DEADLY FLOODS HERE OVER JUST THE  PAST FEW WEEKS.

AND WITH THAT, WE GET SOME  ASSISTANCE FROM ONE OF OUR PARTNERS, KNOWN AS CLIMATE  CENTRAL.

THEY'RE A NONPARTISAN  CLIMATE-BASED SCIENCE GROUP FULL OF METEOROLOGISTS AND  CLIMATE SCIENTISTS WHO MAKE GRAPHICS AND CHARTS SHOWING  FOR EACH RESPECTIVE STATE AND CITY HOW THE CLIMATE  THERE HAS CHANGED OVER THE PAST 20, 30, 50, EVEN 100  YEARS.

AND WE USE THAT NOT IN EVERY  NEWSCAST OR WEATHERCAST, BUT WHEN APPLICABLE.

AND IT HAS BEEN AT LEAST OVER THE PAST FEW WEEKS AND  MONTHS, AND ALSO FOR THE PAST FEW YEARS.

WE'VE BEEN USING THEM FOR A WHILE.

Laura: SO THIS SUMMER YOU ALL ARE DEALING WITH  THESE DEVASTATING DROUGHTS, THESE BIG STORMS, AND YET  WE'RE ALSO SEEING THE HEADLINES.

YOU KNOW, COLORADO RIVER SHORTAGES, DROUGHT.

HOW DO YOU COMMUNICATE THAT ALL OF THESE THINGS ARE  HAPPENING AND RELATED TO CLIMATE CHANGE, AND BIG  STORMS DON'T NECESSARILY CANCEL OUT DROUGHT?

I MEAN, THAT'S A TRICKY STORY TO GET ACROSS TO THE  PUBLIC.

Jorge: IT IS.

WHEN PEOPLE HAVE SEEN THAT IT'S BEEN RAINING, OH,  GREAT, DROUGHT'S OVER.

IT'S NOT THAT SIMPLE.

WE WISH IT WAS, BUT THAT'S JUST NOT THE CASE.

WE NEED THE STORMS TO BE PROLONGED, WE NEED THEM TO  BE CONSISTENT.

THAT HAS BEEN THE ISSUE.

WHEN IT DOES RAIN, IT'S VERY INCONSISTENT.

AND THEN THE DROUGHT, IT HAS BEEN CONSISTENT.

AND THEN ON MONDAY, THE BUREAU OF RECLAMATION FOR  THE FIRST TIME EVER DECLARED A WATER SHORTAGE AT LAKE  MEAD, WHICH DIRECTLY IMPACTS PLACES LIKE ARIZONA, NEVADA,  AND EVEN THE COUNTRY OF MEXICO.

NOW FOR ARIZONA, THIS MEANS LESS WATER FOR FARMERS IN  PINAL COUNTY, WHICH IS JUST SOUTH OF THE PHOENIX METRO.

SO IT'S ALREADY IMPACTING US.

THE DROUGHT, THE PROLONGED DROUGHT, IS ALREADY HAVING  AN IMPACT ON ARIZONA AND PEOPLE ACROSS THE SOUTHWEST,  AND UNFORTUNATELY, CLIMATE CHANGE MAY CONTINUE TO MEAN  PROLONGED AND SEVERE DROUGHTS, AND PERHAPS EVEN  MORE WATER CUTS IN THE FUTURE.

Laura: SO ONE OF THE THINGS -- WHEN YOU WERE HERE  IN NEW MEXICO, I BECAME AN IMMEDIATE FAN OF YOURS,  BECAUSE YOU WERE POSTING ON SOCIAL MEDIA ABOUT CLIMATE  CHANGE, WHICH FROM MY PERSPECTIVE AND MY  EXPERIENCE, A LOT OF METEOROLOGISTS AT COMMERCIAL  TELEVISION STATIONS FOR A LONG TIME HAVE NOT REALLY  BEEN TALKING ABOUT CLIMATE CHANGE.

I'M CURIOUS IF YOU COULD TALK A LITTLE BIT ABOUT WHY  THAT MIGHT BE.

LIKE, WHY CLIMATE CHANGE  DOESN'T MAKE IT INTO SORT OF FORECAST BROADCAST  CONVERSATIONS, AND MAYBE WHAT SOME OF THE CHALLENGES  ARE AROUND GETTING THAT BIG TOPIC INTO A SHORT PART OF  THE NEWS SEGMENT.

Jorge: WELL, FOR A LOT  OF METEOROLOGISTS, CLIMATE SCIENCE IS SOMETHING THAT'S  HONESTLY KIND OF OUT OF THEIR AREA OF EXPERTISE,  BECAUSE WEATHER IS STUDYING ABOUT WHAT'S HAPPENING MORE  OR LESS IN THE NEAR-TERM AND  OBSERVING PATTERNS IN THE SHORT-TERM.

CLIMATE CHANGE, YOU'RE TALKING HUNDREDS OF YEARS,  THOUSANDS OF YEARS, EVEN MILLIONS OF YEARS.

SO THAT KNOWLEDGE FOR MOST METEOROLOGISTS IS NOT AS  WELL KNOWN AS JUST WEATHER FORECASTING AND METEOROLOGY,  ITSELF.

WITH THAT BEING SAID, WE  HAVE BEEN LEARNING A LOT MORE ABOUT HOW CLIMATE IS  IMPACTING US, AND WE'VE TALKED TO A LOT OF EXPERTS,  A LOT OF SCIENTISTS, A LOT OF PROFESSORS IN ACADEMIA  ABOUT HOW CLIMATE IS CHANGING.

AND SO WITH THAT, WE'RE GETTING A BETTER  UNDERSTANDING AND AN UNDERSTANDING THAT  SCIENTISTS KNOW WHAT THEY'RE TALKING ABOUT.

THEY'VE BEEN STUDYING THIS FOR DECADES.

SO WE ARE VERY CONFIDENT NOW THAT WE'RE STARTING TO POST  MORE.

WE'RE SEEING IT A LOT MORE.

A LOT MORE METEOROLOGISTS ARE BEGINNING TO POST MORE  AND TALK MORE ABOUT CLIMATE AND CLIMATE CHANGE, EVEN IN  AREAS WHERE PEOPLE MAY DISAGREE WITH IT AND MAY  EVEN BECOME, ON SOCIAL MEDIA, ANYWAYS, A BIT  NEGATIVE WHEN IT COMES TO COMMENTING.

BUT IT'S ALL ABOUT THE SCIENCE, AND WE TRUST THE  SCIENCE AND WE UNDERSTAND THAT CLIMATE IS CHANGING.

Laura: ONE OF THE THINGS THAT I ALWAYS FIND REALLY  INTERESTING ABOUT COVERING CLIMATE CHANGE AS A REPORTER  IS IT'S THIS BIG GLOBAL STORY, AND OFTEN YOU HAVE  THE BIG NATIONAL OUTLETS DO LIKE A BIG ATTENTION-GETTING  STORY ON CLIMATE CHANGE, AND THOSE ARE SUPER IMPORTANT,  BUT I'M A BIG FAN OF REPETITIVE LOCALIZED  REPORTING THAT GETS TO YOUR LOCAL AUDIENCE SO THEY  UNDERSTAND WHAT'S HAPPENING IN THEIR OWN COMMUNITIES AND  ACROSS THEIR OWN LANDSCAPES.

AND I'M CURIOUS HOW YOU  THINK THAT TV METEOROLOGISTS MIGHT BE ABLE TO DO A BETTER  JOB OF KIND OF GETTING THAT SUSTAINED COVERAGE INTO THAT  DAILY COVERAGE THAT SO MANY PEOPLE SEE.

Jorge: I THINK THE KEY IS JUST BEING WILLING TO DO  IT.

WE HAVE THE OPPORTUNITY.

SCIENTISTS -- OR METEOROLOGISTS, IN FACT, ARE  SOME OF THE ONLY PEOPLE THAT PEOPLE, THAT VIEWERS, KNOW  THAT ARE SCIENTISTS THAT ARE IN THEIR HOMES ALMOST EVERY  DAY, SO WE HAVE THE OPPORTUNITY TO PRESENT THAT  INFORMATION ON A DAILY BASIS.

AND METEOROLOGISTS TEND TO BE SOME OF THE MORE  TRUSTWORTHY PEOPLE WHEN IT COMES TO NEWS AND LOCAL  TELEVISION.

PEOPLE COME TO US BECAUSE  THEY WANT TO KNOW WHAT'S HAPPENING IN THEIR DAY, THEY  WANT TO KNOW HOW THIS WILL IMPACT THEIR LIVES.

AND IF THEY'RE WATCHING SOMEONE THEY TRUST TALK  ABOUT THESE ISSUES, THEY'RE LIKE, OKAY, THERE MUST BE  SOMETHING THERE.

Laura: FOR THOSE WHO  MIGHT BE EVEN STILL TODAY RELUCTANT TO TAKE ON THE  TOPIC FOR FEAR OF ALIENATING EITHER THEIR NEWSROOM  COLLEAGUES OR BOSSES OR THE AUDIENCE, WHAT ADVICE DO YOU  HAVE FOR THEM?

Jorge:   YOU KNOW WHAT, I ACTUALLY HAD THIS ISSUE WHEN  I WORKED IN NEW MEXICO.

BUT YOU HAVE TO FIND WAYS TO  PRESENT IT IN A WAY THAT PERHAPS ISN'T AS OBVIOUS AS,  SAY, WHAT WE DO HERE IN ARIZONA.

BUT JUST PRESENT SOME SIMPLE DATA.

FOR EXAMPLE, THERE WERE SEVERAL YEARS WHERE THE NEW  MEXICO DROUGHT WAS JUST PERSISTENT.

JUST SHOW HOW LONG IT'S BEEN COMPARED TO PREVIOUS YEARS,  AND JUST SHOW THAT TREND CONTINUING.

YOU DON'T HAVE TO SAY, 'OH, CLIMATE CHANGE IS CAUSING  THIS,' BUT JUST SAY, 'OVER THE YEARS, WE'VE NOTICED  THESE TRENDS HAVE BEEN CONTINUING.'

AND THAT, IN AND OF ITSELF, IS HOW YOU CAN PRESENT IT  WITHOUT FULLY PRESENTING IT.

Laura: SO I'M CURIOUS IF  YOU HAVE ANY ADVICE OUT THERE FOR OTHER  METEOROLOGISTS WHO ARE COVERING WEATHER LOCALLY OR  OTHER REPORTERS IN COMMERCIAL TV NEWSROOMS WHO  MAYBE WANT TO INCORPORATE MORE CLIMATE SCIENCE INTO  THEIR NEWS COVERAGE.

Jorge: WELL, ONE THING I  LEARNED BEING IN THIS BUSINESS ALREADY FOR A LONG  TIME IS THAT THERE ARE SO MANY EXPERTS, SO MANY  AVENUES OUT THERE TO GET THIS INFORMATION, AND  THERE'S ALWAYS NEW RESEARCH BEING DONE, NEW PUBLICATIONS  BEING PUT OUT, ABOUT WHETHER, ABOUT CLIMATE,  ABOUT CLIMATE CHANGE AND HOW IT IMPACTS LOCAL  COMMUNITIES.

I KNOW THAT IN NEW MEXICO,  FIRSTHAND, YOU HAVE A GREAT WATER BLOGGER IN JOHN FLECK,  WHO IS SUPER WELL-KNOWN IN THE COMMUNITY, IN THE WATER  COMMUNITY, SPECIFICALLY, AND HERE IN ARIZONA, TOO.

SO THERE ARE RESOURCES AVAILABLE FOR YOU TO TALK TO  WHEN IT COMES TO THESE SCIENCE AND ENVIRONMENTALLY  RELATED TOPICS.

NOW, AS FAR AS PRESENTING  THIS ON AIR FOR A METEOROLOGIST, FOR EXAMPLE,  AND YOU'RE CONCERNED ABOUT, YOU KNOW, YOU'RE ONE OF THE  MORE TRUSTED PEOPLE ON TELEVISION, BUT YET YOU TALK  ABOUT CLIMATE CHANGE AND THEN PEOPLE START TO BE  LIKE, NO, I DON'T KNOW ABOUT THAT.

KEEP AT IT.

THERE ARE RESOURCES  AVAILABLE, THERE ARE OTHER COLLEAGUES IN THE BUSINESS  WHO HAVE GONE THROUGH SIMILAR PUSHBACKS.

BUT KNOW THAT THE AVENUE IS  THERE TO GO, ESPECIALLY IN A PLACE LIKE NEW MEXICO WHERE  YOU'RE NOTICING CLIMATE CHANGE, AS WELL.

THE WATER ISSUE IS NOT GOING AWAY, THE DROUGHT ISSUE IS  NOT GOING AWAY, EITHER, AND THE WILDFIRE ISSUE IS NOT  GOING AWAY.

Laura: JORGE, I CAN'T  THANK YOU ENOUGH.

I REALLY APPRECIATE YOU  POPPING INTO THE NEW MEXICO AUDIENCE TO TALK WITH US  ABOUT THIS, AND I REALLY FOUND YOU TO TRULY BE A  LEADER AS A TELEVISION METEOROLOGIST COVERING  CLIMATE CHANGE, AND I'M REALLY THANKFUL FOR THAT.

SO THANKS FOR JOINING ME.

Jorge: THANK YOU.

AND HELLO AGAIN AND GOODBYE TO EVERYONE IN NEW MEXICO.

SAVE SOME GREEN CHILI FOR ME!

Gene: ONE THING THAT DOESN'T SUFFER FROM A LACK  OF COVERAGE ON LOCAL NEWS BROADCASTS IS CRIME.

IT HAS BEEN A PARTICULARLY TOUGH STRETCH RECENTLY WITH  THE SHOOTING AND DEATH OF AN ALBUQUERQUE MIDDLE SCHOOL  STUDENT BY WHAT POLICE SAY WAS ONE OF HIS CLASSMATES.

ALSO A DEADLY SHOOTING IN A SPORTS BAR IN THE CITY'S  POPULAR UPTOWN AREA.

NOW, THOSE HIGH PROFILE  CASES ARE PART OF A RECORD SETTING YEAR FOR HOMICIDES  HERE IN ALBUQUERQUE AND SPARKED A RENEWED INTEREST  IN CRIME LEGISLATION AS WELL AS ANOTHER DEPLOYMENT OF  STATE POLICE TO ALBUQUERQUE.

SOPHIE, IT IS PRACTICALLY  HUMAN NATURE TO ASK WHAT COULD HAVE BEEN DONE TO STOP  THE SHOOTING AT WASHINGTON MIDDLE SCHOOL.

THEY SAY THE ACCUSED' SHOOTERS FATHER HAD A  HISTORY OF IRRESPONSIBLE GUN OWNERSHIP AS WE ARE LEARNING  NOW.

Sophie: I MEAN, I AM NOT  SURE THAT THAT PARTICULAR SHOOTING WAS PREDICTABLE IN  ADVANCE.

ALTHOUGH, THERE HAD BEEN  SOME TALK OF THE SHOOTER SEEN --  Gene: WELL, SHOOTER'S FATHER HAD A HISTORY, YOU  KNOW.

HE HAD A 2018 FIGHT AT  HIGHLANDS.

HE SHOT A MAN.

I MEAN HIS MOM, YOU KNOW, ATTACKED ANOTHER MOTHER IN A  CLASSROOM.

Sophie: WELL, YOU MIGHT  HAVE PREDICTED THAT HE WOULD SHOOT AT A SCHOOL BUT NOT  NECESSARILY HIS KID.

BUT WHAT WE DO SEE IS THERE  HAS BEEN LONG-STANDING RESISTANCE IN THE STATE TO  LEGISLATION THAT WOULD MAKE THE PARENT MORE RESPONSIBLE  IN SITUATIONS LIKE THIS, FOR LEAVING GUNS UNLOCKED, ET  CETERA.

UNFORTUNATELY, IN MY MIND  THE LEGISLATION THAT HAS BEEN PROPOSED IS NOT  NECESSARILY STRONG ENOUGH.

IT IS WHAT HAS BEEN PROPOSED  UNDER WHAT IS CALLED BENNY'S LAW BUT IT IS, AT LEAST, A  START.

THERE DOES NOT APPEAR TO BE  A LOT OF APPETITE, DESPITE MANY OF THE HIGH PROFILE  SHOOTINGS WE HAVE SEEN AROUND THE COUNTRY AND IN  THIS STATE, FOR STRONGER REGULATION IN THOSE  CIRCUMSTANCES.

WE KNOW CHILDREN DO NOT HAVE  FULLY DEVELOPED BRAINS AND WE ACKNOWLEDGE THAT THEIR  PARENTS SHOULD BE RESPONSIBLE FOR DECISION  MAKING FOR CHILDREN BUT SOMEHOW WE FAIL TO ESTABLISH  THAT PARENTS WILL BE RESPONSIBLE FOR THIS TYPE OF  DECISION MAKING, CERTAINLY NOT AT THE LEVEL THAT SEEMS  TO BE NECESSARY.

Gene: I SHOULD REMIND  FOLKS AS WE RECORD THIS WE ARE ALSO FOLLOWING THE  UNFORTUNATE SITUATION WITH TWO OFFICERS SHOT IN  NORTHEAST ALBUQUERQUE THURSDAY MORNING.

SO WE ARE CONSIDERING THAT AS WELL AS WE DISCUSS THIS.

AND, DANIEL, LET ME MOVE ON HERE.

NEW MEXICO HAS A RED FLAG LAW ON THE BOOKS TO  TEMPORARILY SEIZE GUNS ON PEOPLE WHO SEEM TO BE A  THREAT TO THEMSELVES OR OTHERS.

IT HAS BEEN USED FOUR TIMES SINCE IT WENT INTO EFFECT.

AND I SHOULD POINT OUT THAT THE 2018 SHOOTING, HE WASN'T  EVEN CHARGED BY APD AND PREDATES THE SEIZURE LAW.

BUT IS THERE MORE OF AN OPENING FOR MORE EFFECTIVE  USE OF THAT PARTICULAR LAW HERE?

Dan: YEAH.

I AM NOT SURE THAT THERE IS  AN OPENING FOR A MORE EFFECTIVE USE OF THAT LAW.

I THINK IT JUST IS THE BASIC QUESTION WHY ARE WE NOT  USING THE LAWS THAT WE HAVE ON THE BOOKS TODAY.

Gene: LET'S TALK ABOUT THAT PARTICULAR ONE.

WE HAVE A RED FLAG LAW THAT WAS VIGOROUSLY DEBATED FROM  EXACTLY THESE KIND OF SITUATIONS.

IS IT NOT THE RIGHT TIME?

Dan: BUT I DON'T KNOW  WHAT YOU MEAN THAT LAW AS TO THIS SITUATION.

THE RED FLAG LAW WAS GOING TO KEEP THE KID FROM BEING  AROUND A GUN?

I MEAN, THE PROBLEM IS THAT  THE KID HAS GOT A PROBLEM, RIGHT?

THE KID HASN'T LEARNED, IN MY OPINION, THERE IS  CONSEQUENCES FOR YOUR ACTIONS.

IN 2018 HE SAW HIS FATHER SHOOT SOMEBODY OR HE KNOWS  THAT HIS FATHER SHOT SOMEBODY AND NOTHING  HAPPENED TO THE GUY.

HE DIDN'T GET PROSECUTED.

SO, THAT TELLS A YOUNG DEVELOPING MIND THAT THAT  LEVEL OF ESCALATION IN A VIOLENT SITUATION IS OKAY.

BECAUSE, LISTEN, MY DAD DID IT AND NOTHING HAPPENED TO  MY DAD.

SO, I THINK IT COMES BACK TO  NOT THE FACT WE SHOULD BE EXPANDING LAWS AND PUTTING  NEW LAWS ON THE BOOKS.

WE HAVE A PROBLEM WITH  ENFORCING CURRENT LAWS WE HAVE ON THE BOOKS AND  HOLDING TRUE CRIMINALS ACCOUNTABLE.

WE ARE MORE INTERESTED IN TALKING ABOUT GETTING PEOPLE  OUT OF JAIL WITH NO BAIL, GETTING PEOPLE TO TRIALS  REALLY QUICK SO WE DON'T HOLD THEM IN JAIL ANY  LONGER.

AND YET WE HAVE THIS  RECIDIVISM RATE AMONG THESE PEOPLE.

A LOT OF THESE INDIVIDUALS WE ARE TALKING ABOUT, ONCE  THEY ARE FINALLY CAPTURED OR SHOT IN NEW MEXICO, IT IS  RARE TO SEE A STORY THAT WE ARE LIKE, OH, MY GOSH, GENE  GRANT IS THE GUY THAT SHOT SOMEBODY.

HE HAS NO CRIMINAL PAST.

IT SEEMS TO BE EVERY TIME WE  FIND THIS OUT IT IS INDIVIDUALS WITH A LENGTHY  CRIMINAL RECORD WITH A REVOLVING DOOR POLICY IN OUR  STATE AND IN OUR COUNTRY NOW THAT SEEMS TO BE THE IDEA IS  THAT THE RIGHTS OF THE CRIMINAL TRUMP THE RIGHTS OF  THE VICTIM.

AND THE ANSWER SEEMS TO BE,  WELL, LET'S GO CREATE MORE LAWS.

AND WE ALL KNOW THIS.

THE ONLY PEOPLE THAT LAWS  ARE GOING TO BE FOLLOWED BY ARE PEOPLE WHO WISH TO  FOLLOW THE LAWS.

AND THESE INDIVIDUALS ARE  NOT LAW BIDING CITIZENS.

SO, I THINK BEFORE WE START  SAYING, LET'S PUT ANOTHER LAW ON THE BOOKS, WE NEED TO  LOOK BACK AT WHY THESE SITUATIONS ARE HAPPENING.

WHEN YOU HEAR THE SON OR THE DAUGHTER OR THE FAMILY  MEMBER ARE SOMEONE WHO GETS AWAY WITH A VIOLENT CRIME  AND DOESN'T EVEN HAVE TO GO TO COURT OVER IT, THAT IS A  PROBLEM.

Gene: HEY DAN, WE ARE  JUST GETTING WORD THAT REPUBLICAN LEADERSHIP IS  CALLING FOR SOME TALKS ABOUT CRIME LEGISLATION MEANING  NOT SUPPORTING IT BUT THEY WANT TO GET THEIR VOICE IN A  SPECIAL SESSION TO TALK ABOUT THIS.

YOUR INITIAL GUT REACTION?

IS THIS WORTH A SPECIAL  SESSION AND THE COST AND EVERYTHING?

Dan: LISTEN, I DON'T KNOW WHAT LAW.

TO ME THIS PROBLEM WITH GUN VIOLENCE, IT IS NOT JUST A  NEW MEXICO PROBLEM.

LOOK WHAT IS HAPPENING IN  CHICAGO AND NEW YORK AND IT IS A COUNTRY PROBLEM.

IN NEW MEXICO, I THINK THAT YOU'RE GOING TO HAVE A HARD  TIME -- WE ARE A MAJORITY RULE STATE.

EVEN IF IN PRETTY DEMOCRAT AREAS, THESE FOLKS GET UP  AND GO HUNTING AND DO THE THINGS THEY NEED TO DO, I  THINK THERE IS GOING TO BE A SERIOUS CONVERSATION -- I  HOPE THERE WILL BE A SERIOUS CONVERSATION ABOUT BEFORE WE  PASS 25 NEW LAWS, WHY ARE WE NOT ENFORCING THE LAWS THAT  ARE CURRENTLY ON THE BOOKS, MAYBE GIVING THE DA'S AND  JUDGES MORE DISCRETION TO PUT FOLKS -- TO HANDLE THESE  CASES OTHER THAN MAKING MANDATES THEY BE TURNED OUT  AND WE AWAIT TRIAL AND HOPE THEY DON'T COMMIT ANOTHER  CRIME.

Gene: JESSICA, I AM  CURIOUS HOW THIS ALL RINGS IN YOUR PART OF THE WORLD IN  SOUTHEAST NEW MEXICO.

WE ARE TALKING ABOUT SORT OF  ALBUQUERQUE SPECIFIC HERE BUT HOW DOES IT HIT YOUR  EAR.

Onsurez: WELL, FIRST OF  ALL, LET ME GIVE MY CONDOLENCES TO THE FAMILY OF  BENNY HARGROVE.

IT WAS SUCH A SAD SITUATION  TO HEAR AND EVEN IF IT HAPPENS IN NORTHERN NEW  MEXICO, WE ARE ALL AFFECTED BY IT THROUGHOUT THE ENTIRE  STATE.

I WILL SAY THAT I AM ALONG  SAME VEIN AS DAN ON THIS.

I THINK PEOPLE ARE GOING TO  LOOK AT THIS, THE PROPOSED BILL AND THINK OF IT AS  ANOTHER ATTACK ON THEIR RIGHT TO BEAR ARMS.

ESPECIALLY IN NEW MEXICO.

YOU DO HAVE A POPULATION  WHERE WE ARE, YOU KNOW, WE OWN GUNS.

WE USE THEM FOR SPORT AND RECREATION AND FOR SELF  PROTECTION.

AND I THINK THAT I AM WITH  DAN WHEN WE SAY THAT IT IS A MOMENT NOW TO LOOK AT WHAT  CAN WE DO, NOT ABOUT GUN POSSESSION OR SECURING OUR  GUNS, BUT REALLY TAKE A LOOK AT WHAT ARE THE ROOT CAUSES  OF VIOLENCE THAT JUST HAPPENED TO INVOLVE A GUN.

WE ARE IN A STATE WHERE THERE IS A SEVERE LACK OF  MENTAL HEALTH RESOURCES THAT CAN CONTRIBUTE TO THIS TYPE  OF THING.

WE ARE IN A STATE WHERE WE  HAVE HUGE A POPULATION THAT IS BELOW THE POVERTY LINE,  THAT ARE MORE VULNERABLE TO DOMESTIC VIOLENCE AT HOME  AND WHERE KIDS ARE PLACED IN THE SYSTEM AND ARE IN A  SYSTEM WHERE THEY CAN BE EXPOSED TO VIOLENCE AND ACT  THAT OUT ON THEIR OWN, IN SCHOOLS AND IN THEIR OWN  SOCIETIES AND THEIR OWN SOCIAL CIRCLES.

IN OUR VIEW IT IS BETTER TO PAUSE AND TAKE A LOOK AT NOT  HOW DO WE PUNISH GUN OWNERS, WHO, FOR THE MOST PART, I  THINK SOME MIGHT ARGUE, ARE RESPONSIBLE GUN OWNERS BUT  HOW DO WE ADDRESS THE VIOLENCE OR ISSUES THAT LEAD  TO THIS TYPE OF VIOLENCE.

Gene: DO WE HAVE -- IS  THERE A PROBLEM WITH VIOLENT CULTURE IN ALBUQUERQUE?

WHAT I MEAN BY THAT IS ONE OF THE RELATIVES OF THE  SPORTS BAR SHOOTING SAID AT A NEWS EVENT IT WOULD BE,  QUOTE, BE JUSTICE EITHER WAY.

I MEAN THAT IS A HARD QUOTE RIGHT THERE.

YOU CAN'T BEGRUDGE HER THAT EMOTION BUT IS THAT A  RESPONSE WE CAN LIVE WITH?

IT SOUNDS LIKE REVENGE IS IN  THE AIR HERE.

Sophie: THAT IS A HARD  QUOTE AND NOT KNOWING MORE ABOUT THE CONTEXT OF THAT  SHOOTING MAKES IT DIFFICULT TO UNDERSTAND EXACTLY WHAT  THE DYNAMIC IS.

I THINK ONE OF THE THINGS  THAT IS TOUGH, GOING BACK TO WHAT JESSICA WAS BRINGING UP  ABOUT THE NEED FOR SOCIAL SERVICES, THE NEED FOR  BETTER INTERVENTION, AND DAN AS WELL, WITH PEOPLE WHO WE  KNOW MAY BE ON THE PATH TO VIOLENT BEHAVIOR, IS THAT IT  SEEMS THAT THE SAME LEGISLATORS, THE SAME  ADVOCATES WHO ARE SAYING, NO, NO, NO THAT IS A SECOND  AMENDMENT RIGHT AND WE CAN'T DO ANYTHING ABOUT THE GUNS,  ARE ALSO OPPOSING INCREASED SPENDING FOR SOCIAL SERVICES  FOR INTERVENTION AND FOR HEALTHCARE FOR INDIVIDUALS,  FOR INSTANCE, WITH MENTAL HEALTH CONCERNS.

AND TO BE CLEAR, BECAUSE I THINK IT IS IMPORTANT TO SAY  THIS EVERY TIME, WHEN WE TALK ABOUT INDIVIDUALS WITH  MENTAL HEALTH CONCERNS, FOLKS WHO EXPERIENCE MENTAL  HEALTH ISSUES ARE MORE LIKELY TO BE VICTIMS OF  CRIME THAN TO PERPETUATE IT.

BUT, YOU KNOW, SO, HOW DO WE  OVERCOME THIS, THAT IT IS THE SAME LOUD GROUP OF FOLKS  WHO ARE SAYING NO TO THIS, AND THEN ON THE OTHER SIDE,  NO TO THESE OTHER SOLUTIONS AS WELL.

WE JUST HAVE NOT GOTTEN PAST THAT AND I DON'T SEE WHEN WE  WILL.

Gene: AS WE HAVE  DISCUSSED, VIOLENCE IS PARTICULARLY ALARMING WHEN  IT INVOLVES CHILDREN.

IT IS WHAT REALLY GETS US TO  SIT UP AND PAY ATTENTION AND ALSO HAS LASTING NEGATIVE  IMPACTS WITH KIDS WHO WITNESS IT.

A FEW YEARS BACK, FORMER NMIF PRODUCER SARAH GUSTAVUS  SPOKE WITH LOCAL CHILD PSYCHIATRIST, DR. SCOTT  CARROLL ABOUT UNDERSTANDING AND TREATING CHILDREN WHO  ARE VICTIMIZED BY GUN VIOLENCE.

HERE IS THAT CONVERSATION.

Gustavus: DOCTOR, THANK  YOU FOR JOINING US.

Dr. Carroll: THANK YOU  FOR HAVING ME.

Gustavus: NEW MEXICO IS A  VERY POOR STATE.

WE HAVE A LOT OF ISSUES  RELATED TO POVERTY.

WHY IS VIOLENCE SOMETHING TO  CONSIDER IN THE HEALTH AND WELLBEING OF YOUNG PEOPLE  WHO MIGHT BE WITNESSING VIOLENCE, PARTICULARLY GUN  VIOLENCE, GROWING UP HERE?

Dr. Carroll: WELL, YES,  YOU KNOW, GUN VIOLENCE IS A VERY SERIOUS PROBLEM AND ONE  HAS TO REMEMBER THAT WHEN IN THE CASE OF POVERTY CHILDREN  ARE OFTEN EXPOSED TO A LOT OF THINGS THAT, SAY, SOMEONE  IN A HIGHER SOCIOECONOMIC STATUS WOULDN'T BE.

SO, WHEN CHILDREN GROW UP IN POVERTY, THEY ARE OFTEN  AROUND GUNS MORE AND THEY ACTUALLY SEE THEIR USE MORE  IN VIOLENT WAYS OR THEY ARE MORE AWARE OF THAT.

EVEN IF THEY MAY NOT DIRECTLY WITNESS, THEY OFTEN  KNOW ABOUT SOMEONE WHO HAS BEEN SHOT OR INJURED OR  SITUATIONS LIKE THAT.

Gustavus: YOU WORK IN THE  EMERGENCY DEPARTMENT AT UNM, WORKING WITH VICTIMS WHO  HAVE BEEN SHOT INCLUDING CHILDREN.

WHAT ARE YOU SEEING RIGHT NOW?

Dr. Carroll: UNFORTUNATEL Y, WE SEE FAR TOO MANY.

THAT IS A VERY SAD THING.

BOTH SELF-INFLICTED,  ACCIDENTAL AND THEN, OF COURSE, VICTIMS OF VIOLENCE  DIRECTLY.

SO, IN TERMS OF THE  CHILDREN, WE DO OUR BEST TO WORK WITH THEM, PUT THEM  BACK TOGETHER.

IT CAN BE AN EXTENDED PROCESS BECAUSE  THEY ARE OFTEN DEALING WITH SEVERE PHYSICAL INJURIES AS  WELL AS THE PSYCHIATRIC INJURY AND WE OFTEN HAVE TO  TREAT BOTH TOGETHER.

Gustavus: WHAT IS THE  IMPACT OF WITNESSES VIOLENCE OR EXPERIENCING GUN VIOLENCE  ON A CHILD AS THEY ARE GROWING UP?

Dr. Carroll: IT IS QUITE NEGATIVE.

WHAT WE KNOW IS THAT YOU DO NOT HAVE TO BE THE DIRECT  VICTIM OF A VIOLENT ACT TO BE TRAUMATIZED BY IT.

THERE IS A LOT OF EVIDENCE THAT THE WITNESSES TO THE  VIOLENT ACT ARE SOMETIMES TRAUMATIZED MORE SEVERELY  THAN THE VICTIM THEMSELVES.

SO, IN SOME WAYS, WITNESSING  PREDISPOSES YOU TO BEING PROFOUNDLY VICTIMIZED.

SO IN THAT SENSE, EVEN THOUGH THE WITNESS MAY NOT  HAVE A PHYSICAL INJURY, THEY CAN HAVE SIGNIFICANT  PSYCHIATRIC INJURY SO WE WORK ON THAT WITH CHILDREN  IN TERMS OF TREATING IT.

THANKFULLY, THE RESEARCH HAS  LED TO SOME GOOD TREATMENT METHODS SO OUR ABILITY TO  TREAT HAS CERTAINLY IMPROVED EVEN IN JUST THE LAST FIVE  YEARS.

Gustavus: CAN YOU WALK ME  THROUGH THAT A LITTLE BIT?

HOW WOULD YOU TALK TO A  CHILD WHO HAS WITNESSED GUN VIOLENCE.

Dr. Carroll: ONE OF THE FIRST THINGS IS YOU FIRST  HAVE TO UNDERSTAND HOW THEY SEE IT.

BECAUSE CHILDREN ARE NOT ADULTS.

AND SO THAT ALSO IS ONE -- I'LL MAKE A LITTLE SIDE  POINT ABOUT ESPECIALLY YOUNG CHILDREN OFTEN DON'T  UNDERSTAND THE ROLE OF TV.

THEY DON'T UNDERSTAND THAT  THE TV ISN'T SHOWING SOMETHING THAT IS HAPPENING  IN THEIR NEIGHBORHOOD.

IT MAY BE ACROSS THE WORLD.

THEY CAN'T MAKE THAT DISTINCTION.

SO A LOT OF TIMES FOR CHILDREN, IF THEY SEE IT ON  TV THEY ASSUME IT IS IN THEIR LOCAL ENVIRONMENT.

THAT IS WHY IT IS IMPORTANT NOT TO SORT -- YOU HAVE TO  BE CAREFUL EXPOSING CHILDREN TO VARIOUS TYPES OF VIOLENCE  ON THE TELEVISION BECAUSE THEY LITERALLY THINK IT IS  IN THEIR IMMEDIATE ENVIRONMENT, ESPECIALLY  PRESCHOOL CHILDREN.

Gustavus: WHAT ABOUT IF  THEY ACTUALLY WITNESS GUN VIOLENCE?

Dr. Carroll: IF THEY ACTUALLY WITNESS, THEY CAN  BE SUBSTANTIALLY TRAUMATIZED BY IT.

EVERYTHING FROM NIGHTMARES TO THEY'LL HAVE, LIKE,  DISSOCIATIVE REOCCURRENCES OF THE MEMORY WHERE THEY  LITERALLY WILL DISSOCIATE AND REEXPERIENCE THE TRAUMA.

AND WHAT IS MORE, AS WE KNOW IN HUMANS, THAT EXPERIENCE  IS QUITE NATURAL.

AND VERY COMMON.

AND SO WHAT WILL HAPPEN IS, IT THEN GENERALIZES IN THE  SENSE THAT ALL KINDS OF THINGS WILL TRIGGER IT.

THINGS THAT DON'T INVOLVE GUNS OR EVEN, I THINK OF  OBVIOUS TRIGGERS, LIKE A CAR BACKFIRING.

SOME UNUSUAL THINGS WILL BECOME ASSOCIATED WITH THE  TRAUMA AND SO THE FLASHBACK OF THE TRAUMA WILL OFTEN BE  TRIGGERED BY ALL KINDS OF THINGS THAT YOU WOULDN'T  THINK OF.

Gustavus: WHAT ARE SOME  SIGNS PHYSICAL OR EMOTIONAL THAT A YOUNG PERSON IS  STRUGGLING AFTER WITNESSING VIOLENCE?

Dr. Carroll: PROBABLY THE EASIEST THING TO SEE IS  DIFFICULTY SLEEPING.

SO, ANY TIME LIKE HIGH  ANXIETY DIRECTLY INHIBITS THE BRAIN'S ABILITY TO  TRANSITION INTO A SLEEP STATE.

SO IT LITERALLY SORT OF FORCES YOU TO STAY AWAKE.

SO, THAT IS ONE OF THE FIRST THINGS YOU SEE IS DIFFICULTY  SLEEPING.

WHAT WE ALSO KNOW IN CHILDREN, ESPECIALLY YOUNG  CHILDREN, IS THAT THEY DON'T LOOK -- TRAUMA DOESN'T LOOK  THE SAME AS IT DOES IN AN ADULT.

IF YOU READ ABOUT POSTTRAUMATIC STRESS  DISORDER, THAT WAS DESIGNED OR DEVELOPED FROM COMBAT  VETERANS, NOT CHILDREN.

SO CHILDREN PRESENT A BIT  DIFFERENTLY.

YOU SEE THINGS LIKE  DIFFICULTY SLEEPING OR INCREASED AGGRESSION SO  INCREASED TEMPER TANTRUMS AND AGGRESSION ARE VERY  COMMON.

CHILDREN ALSO TEND TO  DISSOCIATE MUCH MORE THAN ADULTS WHERE THEY JUST KIND  OF GO QUIET AND SORT OF STARE OFF.

IF YOU THINK ABOUT IT, CHILDREN, YOU KNOW, PART OF  WHAT HAPPENS IN A TRAUMATIC EVENT, YOUR FLIGHT OR FIGHT  SYSTEM IS TRIGGERED.

SO CHILDREN CAN'T DO EITHER  VERY WELL SO INSTEAD THEY FREEZE AND THEY OFTEN FREEZE  AND DISSOCIATE.

THEIR BEST HOPE IS TO NOT BE  SEEN.

Gustavus: IS IT GOOD TO  GET KIDS TO TALK ABOUT THIS?

Dr. Carroll: YES.

NOW HERE IS THE THING, THOUGH, IT HAS TO BE DONE IN  THE RIGHT WAY.

IT TAKES SPECIALIZED  TRAINING TO BE ABLE TO GET THE KID TO TALK IN THE RIGHT  WAY SO THEY ACTUALLY GET BETTER RATHER THAN SORT OF  RE-TRAUMATIZING THEM WITH THE DESCRIPTION.

THAT IS WHY A LOT OF SORT OF -- THERE WAS A FAD THERE  FOR A WHILE WITH DEBRIEFING TYPE PROGRAMS WHERE WE WERE  TRYING TO GET PEOPLE TO TALK IMMEDIATELY ABOUT THE  TRAUMA.

AND WE ACTUALLY LEARNED THAT  MADE PEOPLE WORSE.

SO, YOU KNOW, WE HAVE  LEARNED A LOT OF THINGS ABOUT THE RIGHT WAY TO DO  IT.

NOW, THERE WILL COME A TIME  WHERE YOU WILL GET THEM TO TALK ABOUT IT AND THAT IS  SORT OF THE END POINT OF TREATMENT THAT THEY CAN TALK  ABOUT THE EXPERIENCE WITHOUT THE EMOTIONAL ATTACHMENT SO  THEY DON'T GET SCARED, FRIGHTENED OR OVERWHELMED OR  ANGRY OR SAD.

SO THAT IT IS A MEMORY BUT  DOESN'T HAVE THE EMOTIONAL CONTENT IT PREVIOUSLY DID.

Gustavus: WHAT ARE SOME THINGS THAT ADULTS, PARENTS,  TEACHERS OR OTHER CARING ADULTS CAN DO TO SUPPORT A  YOUNG PERSON WHO HAS WITNESSED VIOLENCE,  PARTICULARLY GUN VIOLENCE?

Dr. Carroll: ONE OF THE  MOST IMPORTANT THINGS IS STRESSING THE CHILD'S  SAFETY.

MAKING THE CHILD FEEL SAFE.

AND, YOU KNOW, BECAUSE CHILDREN NATURALLY TURN TO  ADULTS FOR THEIR OWN SAFETY AND PROTECTION.

SO, THEY ARE PRIME TO BELIEVE PARENTS WHEN PARENTS  TELL YOU, IT IS OKAY, YOU ARE NEVER GOING TO BE AROUND  THAT OR I AM NOT GOING TO LET YOU, I AM GOING TO KEEP  YOU SAFE.

BY PROTECTING THEM, THAT  NATURAL SENSE OF PROTECTION IS ACTUALLY VERY THERAPEUTIC  TO CHILDREN.

Gustavus: WHAT IF PARENTS  DON'T DO THAT?

SOME PARENTS EXPERIENCE A  LOT OF VIOLENCE GROWING UP AND MAY NOT REALIZE, MAY NOT  BE IN A PLACE WHERE THEY, LIKE, I WANT TO CHANGE THIS,  I WANT TO DO SOMETHING DIFFERENTLY.

YOU'RE NOT AVAILABLE FOR THAT.

Dr. Carroll: A LOT OF TIMES WE WORK WITH PARENTS  SO EVEN CHILDREN, THEY ARE NOT INDEPENDENT.

THEY ARE VERY MUCH PARTS OF THEIR FAMILIES.

SO A LOT OF TIMES THE BEST THING YOU CAN DO FOR A CHILD  IS TO ACTUALLY WORK WITH THE PARENTS AND FAMILY AND TO  HELP THEM ENGAGE THE CHILD IN THE RIGHT WAY.

BECAUSE IF YOU THINK ABOUT IT, I MIGHT SEE A CHILD  MAYBE ONCE A MONTH, FOR MEDICATION, THE THERAPIST  MIGHT SEE A CHILD EVERY WEEK, BUT THE PARENTS ARE  THERE EVERYDAY, ALL DAY LONG.

SO, IF I CAN TEACH THE PARENT, EVEN SOME VERY BASIC  THINGS ABOUT HOW TO BE THERAPEUTIC, IT CAN REALLY  MAKE A HUGE DIFFERENCE FOR THE CHILD.

A LOT OF TIMES WE DON'T TALK ABOUT THAT A LOT BUT WHAT WE  REALLY ARE DOING IS TEACHING THE PARENT TO PARENT IN SUCH  A WAY THAT IT IS THERAPEUTIC FOR THE CHILD.

Gustavus: YOU SEE SOME REALLY DIFFICULT THINGS AS A  PROVIDER.

IT SOUNDS INCREDIBLY  DIFFICULT.

HOW HAS THIS IMPACTED YOU  AND YOUR THOUGHTS ON GUN OWNERSHIP IN THE U.S.

RIGHT  NOW?

Dr. Carroll: MY PERSONAL  FEELING IS THAT I BELIEVE IN RESPONSIBLE GUN OWNERSHIP.

I AM FROM LOUISIANA ORIGINALLY.

I GREW UP HUNTING AND FISHING AND THEN I WAS IN  THE MILITARY BEFORE I WAS A PSYCHIATRIST.

SO, I AM VERY COMFORTABLE WITH GUNS.

HOWEVER I HAVE YOUNG CHILDREN SO I DON'T -- WHILE  I WILL GO TO A RANGE AND SHOOT ON OCCASION, I DON'T  HAVE A GUN IN MY HOUSE BECAUSE I WOULD BE TERRIFIED  OF THE THOUGHT OF MY DAUGHTER FINDING A GUN.

I AM VERY FOCUSED ON GUNS ARE A RESPONSIBILITY.

AND THAT THEY NEED TO BE USED SAFELY AND CORRECTLY.

IT IS A GREAT RESPONSIBILITY.

AND, SO, THAT IS THE STANCE I TAKE WITH PARENTS.

OF COURSE, IF I AM WORKING WITH A CHILD WHO IS SUICIDAL  OR A TEENAGER WHO IS SUICIDAL, WE TALK ABOUT  PROPERLY SECURING GUNS.

I DON'T TELL THEM YOU  SHOULDN'T OWN A GUN.

WHAT I AM SAYING IS YOU NEED  TO BE RESPONSIBLE ABOUT THIS.

WE GO OVER SORT OF SECURITY PROCEDURES, YOU KNOW,   THINGS LIKE THAT.

TO KEEP CHILDREN SAFE.

Gustavus: YOUNG PEOPLE  CAN BE VERY IMPULSIVE.

Dr. Carroll: ABSOLUTELY.

AND THAT IS PROBABLY ONE OF THE THINGS TO SAY ABOUT  TEENAGERS, BIG DIFFERENCE BETWEEN ADULTS AND  TEENAGERS, IS THAT BECAUSE THE FRONTAL LOBES ARE NOT  FULLY DEVELOPED, THEY MAKE VERY IMPULSIVE AND RASH  DECISIONS, ESPECIALLY WHEN THEY ARE STRESSED.

AND SO A TEENAGER CAN GO FROM JUST BEING KIND OF  ANGRY TO ATTEMPTING TO TAKE THEIR LIFE IN JUST A MATTER  OF SECONDS IF THEY SEE THE OPPORTUNITY.

WHAT WE KNOW IN TEENAGERS IS, THAT OPPORTUNITY IS A  BIG TRIGGER TO THEM ACTING.

SO, IF THERE IS NO IMMEDIATE  OPPORTUNITY, THE INTERESTING THING IS WHILE THE DESIRE  TO KILL THEMSELVES CAN COME ON VERY RAPIDLY, IT CAN  DISAPPEAR JUST AS RAPIDLY TOO.

SO IF THEY CAN'T ACCESS A MEANS TO ACT ON THE THOUGHT,  IN A MATTER OF MINUTES, IT CAN ACTUALLY PASS.

SO THAT IS WHY THAT CONTROLLING ACCESS TO LETHAL  THINGS, EVERYTHING FROM MEDICATION BEING LOCKED UP  TO GUNS AND SO FORTH, YOU KNOW, THOSE ARE ALL KEY TO  KEEPING A TEENAGER SAFE EVEN IF THEY DID HAVE A SUICIDAL  THOUGHT.

Gustavus: DO YOU FIND  YOUNG PEOPLE, CHILDREN OR TEENAGERS WHO HAVE WITNESSED  VIOLENCE, DOES THAT LEAD TO THOUGHTS OF SUICIDE?

Dr. Carroll: ABSOLUTELY.

THE WAY YOU THINK ABOUT IT  IS YOU HAVE A TRAUMATIC EVENT WHICH THEN LEADS TO  ESSENTIALLY SOME VERSION OF POSTTRAUMATIC STRESS  DISORDER.

OVER TIME WHAT HAPPENS,  WHILE THE POSTTRAUMATIC SYMPTOMS MAY SORT OF DIFFUSE  OUT OR CALM DOWN, THEY OFTEN LEAD TO HIGH LEVELS OF  RESIDUAL ANXIETY AND THAT RESIDUAL ANXIETY THEN CAUSES  DEPRESSION.

WHAT YOU FIND IS EVENTUALLY  EVEN THOUGH THE PTSD IS SOMEWHAT BETTER IF IT IS NOT  TREATED, THEY ARE MUCH MORE DEPRESSED.

SO IF YOU THINK ABOUT IT, IT IS SORT OF LIKE I THINK OF  ANXIETY LIKE RED LINING YOUR ENGINE.

AFTER A CERTAIN POINT, YOU ARE JUST RED LINING, RED  LINING, RED LINING AND EVENTUALLY THE GOVERNOR HAS  TO KICK IN AND SHUT THE ENGINE DOWN.

THAT IS THE DEPRESSION.

SO IF YOU ARE ANXIOUS FOR  TOO LONG, EVENTUALLY THE DEPRESSION KICKS IN TO SORT  OF LIKE CALM YOUR SYSTEM DOWN, SHUT IT DOWN.

IN THAT STATE OF DEPRESSION IS WHEN YOU SEE THE SUICIDAL  THOUGHTS.

Gustavus: ANY POLICY OR  STRUCTURAL CHANGES THAT YOU  THINK WOULD HELP ADDRESS THESE ISSUES WE HAVE JUST  BEEN TALKING ABOUT WITH YOUNG PEOPLE AND GUN  VIOLENCE?

Dr. Carroll: I THINK IT  IS VERY IMPORTANT TO STRESS AT A SOCIETAL LEVEL IN TERMS  OF RESPONSIBLE GUN OWNERSHIP IN TERMS OF PROPERLY  SECURING WEAPONS.

AND ALSO TRAINING.

IF YOU OWN A GUN YOU NEED TO BE PROPERLY TRAINED.

IN MANY WAYS, THERE IS A LOT OF RESEARCH THAT SHOWS THIS.

WHEN YOU OWN A GUN, THE PERSON MOST AT RISK IS YOU.

THAT YOU'LL ACCIDENTALLY HARM YOURSELF OR WHILE  CLEANING YOUR GUN IT WILL MISFIRE.

SO THERE IS A LOT OF THINGS ABOUT BEING ABLE TO HANDLE A  GUN SAFELY.

THERE IS A LOT TO IT.

IT ALSO NEEDS TO BE DONE ON A REGULAR BASIS.

IF YOU DON'T HANDLE GUNS DAILY OR REGULARLY, YOU GET  RUSTY AND THEN YOU'RE DANGEROUS.

I COMPARE IT TO FLYING AN AIRPLANE.

WE JOKE ABOUT HOW DOCTORS MAKE TERRIBLE PILOTS,  BECAUSE WE DON'T FLY ENOUGH.

THAT IS THE PROBLEM.

SO, WE ARE DANGEROUS BECAUSE WE DON'T FLY ENOUGH WHERE  SOMEBODY WHO FLIES EVERYDAY IS MUCH SAFER.

IT IS THE SAME THING WITH GUNS.

Gustavus: THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR SHEDDING LIGHT ON  ISSUES YOUNG PEOPLE ARE DEALING WITH AND THESE ARE  INTERESTING THINGS FOR US TO THINK ABOUT.

Dr. Carroll: THANK YOU.

Gene: WE OFTEN HAVE  SPOKEN OF THE RURAL/URBAN DIVIDE ON THIS SHOW.

IT HAS BEEN MANIFESTING ITSELF FOR YEARS NOW.

THE LATEST CENSUS DATA BEARS IT OUT.

SHOWING 20 OF NEW MEXICO'S 33 COUNTIES LOSING  POPULATION.

NOW, WHILE THE STATE OVERALL  ISN'T GAINING MANY RESIDENTS MOST OF THE COUNTIES THAT  SHOW THE BIGGEST GAINS ARE HOME TO NEW MEXICO'S LARGEST  CITIES.

WHEN IT COMES TO CENSUS,  FEWER PEOPLE MEANS LESS MONEY, BUT BEYOND THAT, DAN,  WHAT IS THE UPSHOT HERE?

WHAT ARE WE BEING TOLD HERE  ABOUT NEW MEXICO?

Dan: I THINK DEFINITELY  THAT THERE IS AN INFLUX, I THINK, IF YOU LOOK AT DATA,  THERE IS AN INFLUX OF PEOPLE FROM OUT OF THIS STATE  MOVING INTO THE STATE FROM BIGGER STATES, RIGHT?

PEOPLE LEAVING CALIFORNIA, LEAVING NEW YORK AND THEY  CONSIDER ALBUQUERQUE TO BE A MUCH SMALLER TOWN AND  WILLING TO SETTLE IN ALBUQUERQUE.

WHERE IN THE PAST YOU WOULD FIND SOMEWHAT OF A  COMBINATION OF PEOPLE NOT ONLY MOVING TO PLACES LIKE  ALBUQUERQUE BUT TOWNS LIKE ROSWELL AND CARLSBAD BECAUSE  THEY WANT THAT COMMUNITY.

YOU HAVE GOT TO REMEMBER,  TOO, WHEN YOU LOOK AT PERCENTAGES, WHEN YOU GO TO  PLACES LIKE CATRON COUNTY, IF THEY LOSE ONE PERSON IT  IS A HUGE SWING IN THE DEMOGRAPHIC MAKEUP.

ONE THING THAT IS INTERESTING TO SEE IS THAT  THE COUNTIES THAT ARE LOSING FOLKS ARE HEAVILY REPUBLICAN  COUNTIES IN NEW MEXICO.

IT IS GOING TO HAVE A HUGE  OUTCOME IN LEGISLATIVE RACES.

Gene: CAN I ASK YOU TO HOLD THAT?

I HAVE SOMETHING COMING UP FOR YOU ON THAT VERY SUBJECT  IN A LITTLE BIT.

LET ME SWING TO   JESS ON THAT.

OBVIOUSLY, YOU'RE RIGHT IN THE MIDDLE OF IT, JESSICA.

ON THE GROUND WHAT DOES THIS MEAN AS A FUNDAMENTAL CHANGE  TO NEW MEXICO IN THOSE COUNTIES THAT POPULATION IS  LOSING.

Onsurez: YOU KNOW WHAT,  IT IS KIND OF INTERESTING THAT DAN SAID THAT.

WE ARE ACTUALLY GROWING IN SOUTHEAST NEW MEXICO.

EDDY COUNTY HAS HAD SOME OF THE HIGHEST RETURNS FOR THE  CENSUS IN GROWTH.

WE CAN ATTRIBUTE THAT TO  MANY THINGS BUT MOST PEOPLE ATTRIBUTE IT TO THE OIL AND  GAS INDUSTRY WHICH IS BASED IN THIS REGION.

WHICH IS GREAT FOR US.

BUT YOU'RE ALSO TALKING  ABOUT THAT SHIFT IN POLITICS.

WE ARE LOOKING AT RURAL COUNTIES WHICH ARE LARGELY  CONSERVATIVE WHO ALREADY FEEL DISCONNECTED FROM WHAT  IS HAPPENING IN THE CENTER OF THE STATE AND IN URBAN  POPULATIONS.

SO, YOU TALK ABOUT THAT  URBAN/RURAL DIVIDE, THE CONSEQUENCE MIGHT BE THAT  YOU SEE THAT WIDEN A BIT MORE AND A BIT MORE OF THAT  LACK OF CIVILITY AND LACK OF UNDERSTANDING WHEN WE ALL  TRY TO COME TOGETHER ON ISSUES THAT AFFECT THE  ENTIRE STATE.

Gene: SOPHIE, THE POWER  BALANCE IN A LOT OF CITIES AROUND THE COUNTRY SHIFTING  URBAN, THAT IS FOR SURE.

WHAT ARE THE RAMIFICATIONS  FOR NEW MEXICO?

I MEAN, IT IS ALREADY  SOMEWHAT ALBUQUERQUE CENTRIC AS IT IS.

YOU KNOW WHAT I MEAN BY THAT?

DOES THIS EXAGGERATE THAT PROBLEM.

Sophie: I DO.

AND I THINK THAT IT DOES AND  ONE OF THE CHALLENGES THAT IT IS GOING TO CREATE FOR  OUR RURAL COMMUNITIES IS, YOU KNOW, POTENTIALLY LESS  OF A CUSTOMER BASE FOR THEIR BUSINESSES, LESS OPPORTUNITY  TO ATTRACT DOCTORS AND PHARMACISTS AND LAWYERS.

I WORKED EARLIER A COUPLE YEARS AGO ON A PROJECT  TRYING TO ADDRESS THE LAWYER SHORTAGE IN RURAL PARTS OF  THE STATE.

THIS DOES NOT HELP.

I THINK ONE OF THE REAL CONCERNS IS THERE WILL BE A  CONTRACTION OF THE CENTRAL SERVICES FOR PARTS OF THE  STATE THAT ARE SEEING SHRINKING POPULATIONS.

IT IS ALREADY A STRUGGLE TO KEEP HOSPITALS OPEN IN MANY  PARTS OF THE STATE.

SO PEOPLE DO WHAT THEY DO  AND THE MOVE TO CITIES IS NOT SOMETHING THAT, ALTHOUGH  WE SOMETIMES TALK ABOUT LIKE HOW CAN WE REVERSE THAT, ET  CETERA, INDIVIDUALS ARE GOING TO ACT IN THEIR OWN  SELF INTERESTS, WHAT IS BEST, WE HOPE AT LEAST, THE  ECONOMISTS TELL US, THEY WILL ACT IN THE WAY BEST FOR  THEM TO THE EXTENT THE PERCEPTION IS YOU'RE GOING  TO GET SOMETHING MORE PERHAPS IN THE URBAN AREAS.

THAT IS GOING TO CONTINUE TO BE A CHALLENGE FOR  COMMUNITIES IN THE REST OF THE STATE.

Gene: DAN, YOU STARTED TO TOUCH ON THIS IN A ROUND  ABOUT WAY.

MANY OF US ARE WORKING FROM  HOME FOR MONTHS AND THE CONCEPT GOING TO WORK IS  LESS RELIANT ON LOCATION NOW.

YOU JUST MENTIONED, OF COURSE, FOLKS ARE MOVING  INTO CERTAIN PARTS OF THE STATE TO BE ABLE TO WORK  FROM AFAR.

THAT WOULD SEEM TO BE A  SELLING POINT FOR SMALLER CITIES AND TOWNS.

WHAT IS KEEPING THEM FROM LEVERAGING THIS MORE THAN  WHAT THEY ARE?

Dan: THAT IS WHY I THINK  ALBUQUERQUE IS SEEING A BIGGER SET OF GROWTH THAN  THE REST OF RURAL NEW MEXICO.

IF YOU'RE LEAVING LOS ANGELES, ALBUQUERQUE IS A  PRETTY RURAL CITY TO MOVE TO.

CARLSBAD AND ROSWELL ARE WAY OUT IN THE HINDER LANDS,  RIGHT?

I MEAN, THAT IS, YOU KNOW,  PEOPLE STILL WANT TO GET TO STARBUCKS AND GET THEIR  FLIGHT OPTIONS.

BUT THE BIGGER QUESTION THAT  IS GOING TO ARISE IN NEW MEXICO, I THINK, IN THE NEXT  FEW YEARS, IS THE WATER DEBACLE.

WE ARE IN A DROUGHT OF EPIC PROPORTION AND AS  ALBUQUERQUE GROWS, THERE IS ONLY SO MUCH WATER THAT CAN  GO AROUND AND THERE IS PLACES LIKE SOUTHEASTERN NEW  MEXICO WHERE YOU LOOK AND IN THAT WHOLE PECOS RIVER  VALLEY, WHERE THEY HAVE DONE A GREAT JOB MANAGING WATER  OVER THE LAST 20, 30, 40 YEARS, AND THERE IS GOING TO  BE A MOVE, YOU WATCH, THAT SAYS, HEY LISTEN, DO WE NEED  TO BE AS MUCH OF A FARMING, AGRICULTURE STATE AND GROW  ALFALFA AND GROW PECANS OR SHOULD WE BE SHIPPING THAT  WATER TO ALBUQUERQUE TO GIVE PEOPLE DRINK THAT ARE MOVING  HERE?

I THINK THAT FIGHT IS  COMING, ESPECIALLY WITH THE RECENT DECISIONS IN THE LAST  YEAR OR SO WITH THE SUPREME COURT AND OUR FIGHT WITH  TEXAS.

THINGS ARE NOT BODING WELL  FOR RURAL NEW MEXICO WHEN IT COMES TO WATER AND  SUSTAINING RANCHING AND THE AGRICULTURE INDUSTRY AND TO  SOME EXTENT THE OIL AND GAS INDUSTRY.

IT IS UNDER CONSTANT FIRE IN THIS STATE NOT ONLY  LEGISLATIVELY, BUT YOU START LOOKING AT THESE WATER  ISSUES, YOU START TELLING THOSE GUYS THEY CAN'T USE  THE WATER, THEY NEED TO DRILL WELLS, IT IS THE MORE  BENEFICIAL USE, IT IS GOING TO BE SHIPPING IN A PIPELINE  TO ALBUQUERQUE AND I THINK THAT FIGHT IS COMING SOONER  RATHER THAN LATER.

Gene: HEY, JESSICA, A BIG  ONE FOR YOU.

IS IT AT ALL LIKELY THAT THE  SECOND CONGRESSIONAL DISTRICT WILL BE REDRAWN TO  A DEMOCRATIC DISTRICT OR DOES IT SEEM MORE LIKELY IT  WILL BECOME MORE COMPETITIVE, SOMETHING MORE  SIMILAR TO A SWING DISTRICT?

THOSE ARE INTERESTING  CHOICES THERE.

Onsurez: WE ARE LOOKING  AND WE CERTAINLY HOPE THAT THERE WILL BE SOME REDRAWING  OF THE DISTRICTS HERE.

WE DON'T THINK THAT THERE  WILL BE A HUGE SHIFT TO DEMOCRATIC BUT WE DO HOPE  THAT IT MIGHT BE ONE OF THOSE COMPETITIVE SWING  DISTRICTS.

SO, THE POSSIBILITIES, I  THINK, FOR NEW MEXICO AND SOUTHERN NEW MEXICO  EXPLICITLY IN THIS REDISTRICTING PROCESS ARE  GREAT.

WE ARE LOOKING FORWARD TO  SEEING WHAT THE RECOMMENDATIONS ARE AT A  STATE LEVEL AND WHAT HAPPENS WITH NEW MEXICO AS A WHOLE.

Dan: I AM REMINDED OF DURING THE LAST -- WHEN I  WAS IN THE LEGISLATURE AND DISTRICTING WHEN YOUR FORMER  BOSS WAS IN AND I WAS ON THE REDISTRICTING COMMITTEE AND  I WOULD GET THESE UNSOLICITED PHONE CALLS,  NEVER TALKED TO HIM SO MUCH IN MY LIFE, FROM CONGRESSMAN  TOM UDALL TELLING ME WHAT A GREAT SEAT HEATHER WILSON  HAD, THAT NOTHING SHOULD BE DONE TO CHANGE HER SEAT,  THAT SHE WAS A GREAT ASSET.

WHEN YOU START TALKING ABOUT  MAKING SEATS MORE COMPETITIVE YOU HAVE TO  REMEMBER WHEN ONE BECOMES MORE COMPETITIVE, ANOTHER  ONE BECOMES LESS COMPETITIVE.

AND THE FOLKS THAT ARE HOLDING THOSE OTHER SEATS  ARE NOT GOING TO BE AS ECSTATIC ABOUT FINDING A WAY  TO MAKE THEM LESS COMPETITIVE AND THINK ABOUT  IT THIS WAY.

RIGHT NOW, I BELIEVE, ONE  OF, IF NOT THE MOST SENIOR CONGRESS PERSON IN NEW  MEXICO NOW IS YVETTE HARRELL, RIGHT?

I MEAN, YOU THINK OF PEOPLE WHO HAVE LEFT AND WHAT HAS  BEEN GOING ON.

Gene: DAN, REAL QUICK.

DO REPUBLICANS NEED TO CHANGE THEIR MESSAGE IN THE  FACE OF ALL THIS?

IN THE SOUTHERN PART OF THE  STATE.

Dan:   WE HAVE NO MESSAGE.

OUR MESSAGE LEFT ABOUT EIGHT  YEARS AGO AND EVERYBODY ELSE IS THE BOOGIE MAN IS NOT A  MESSAGE THAT BRINGS PEOPLE TOGETHER AND INVITES THEM TO  JOIN YOUR CAUSE.

WE SAW THAT IN THE LAST  PRESIDENTIAL ELECTION AND IT IS GOING TO CONTINUE TO RAIN  DOWN ON US IN NEW MEXICO AND ACROSS THE COUNTRY IF WE  DON'T FIGURE OUT A WAY TO REBUILD THIS PARTY INSTEAD  OF SPENDING ALL OUR TIME TELLING EVERYBODY WHO IS  WRONG.

WE ARE GOING TO LEAVE THAT  UP TO YOU AND MATT.

Gene: SOPHIE, YOU HAVE 30  SECONDS ON THIS.

Sophie: NOT GOING TO  DISAGREE WITH DAN ON THAT ONE.

WHAT DID YOU WANT TO ASK?

Gene: NO, NO, JUST  CURIOUS YOU HAD A REACTION AND YOU DID.

WE ARE OUT OF TIME THIS WEEK.

THANKS TO YOU ALL FOR  DIGGING IN ON THE TOPICS THIS WEEK.

I AM BACK IN A MOMENT WITH A FEW FINAL THOUGHTS.

EARLIER THIS WEEK, I HAD THE OPPORTUNITY TO TAG ALONG  WITH U.S. SECRETARY OF ENERGY JENNIFER GRANHOLM AND  SENIOR SENATOR MARTIN HEINRICH AS THEY TOURED  ALBUQUERQUE BUSINESSES ACTIVE IN THE NEXT  GENERATION OF PRODUCING ENERGY AND POWER.

PARTICULARLY HYDROGEN USE IN FUEL CELLS AND NUCLEAR.

DIDN'T TAKE LONG TO GRASP WHY THE ENERGY SECRETARY  MADE THE TRIP BUT LET ME SAY THIS FIRST, WE HAVE HAD OUR  SHARE OF REPORTING AND POLITICAL POSTURING ABOUT  OUR CITY BEING THE NEXT BIG TECH THING AND AN ARRAY OF  ENDEAVORS OVER THE LAST 20 YEARS AND TOO MANY WITHOUT  RESULT.

THAT LACK OF SUCCESS HAS  INDUCED A FAIR AMOUNT OF CYNICISM BUT TO ME NEXT GEN  POWER PRODUCTION FEELS DIFFERENT.

THE MOMENTUM I WITNESSED THIS WEEK WAS SEEDED 20  YEARS AGO BY SENATORS DOMENICI, BINGAMAN AND MY  OLD BOSS, HEATHER WILSON, AND TIMING IN LIFE IS  EVERYTHING AND THE RECENTLY PASSED INFRASTRUCTURE  INVESTMENT AND JOBS ACT IS A POLICY DECISION THAT HAS  ALBUQUERQUE AND POTENTIALLY NEW MEXICO WRITTEN ALL OVER  IT.

THANKS AGAIN FOR JOINING US  AND STAYING INFORMED AND ENGAGED.

SEE YOU AGAIN NEXT WEEK IN FOCUS.