New Mexico In Focus
Mask Mandate Redux, Crime Trends, and NM Census | 8.20.21
Season 15 Episode 8 | 56m 2sVideo has Closed Captions
Delta Prompts New Restrictions, Crime Trends & Local Weathercasters Tackle Climate Change
The recent spike in COVID-19 cases among unvaccinated people means a return of mask mandates, as well as new vaccine requirements. The Line opinion panel weighs the impact and political implications. The Line also discusses Albuquerque's troubling crime trend & newly released Census data. Former New Mexico TV meteorologist Jorge Torres about how local newsrooms can better cover climate issues.
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New Mexico In Focus is a local public television program presented by NMPBS
New Mexico In Focus
Mask Mandate Redux, Crime Trends, and NM Census | 8.20.21
Season 15 Episode 8 | 56m 2sVideo has Closed Captions
The recent spike in COVID-19 cases among unvaccinated people means a return of mask mandates, as well as new vaccine requirements. The Line opinion panel weighs the impact and political implications. The Line also discusses Albuquerque's troubling crime trend & newly released Census data. Former New Mexico TV meteorologist Jorge Torres about how local newsrooms can better cover climate issues.
Problems playing video? | Closed Captioning Feedback
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AND VIEWERS LIKE YOU.
Gene: THIS WEEK ON NEW MEXICO InFOCUS, ON THE HEELS OF A NEW REPORT ON CLIMATE CHANGE, WE EXPLORE HOW TV METEOROLOGISTS COVER CLIMATE.
Jorge: WE'RE GETTING A BETTER UNDERSTANDING, AND AN UNDERSTANDING THAT SCIENTISTS KNOW WHAT THEY'RE TALKING ABOUT.
THEY'VE BEEN STUDYING THIS FOR DECADES.
Gene: AND WE REVISIT A AN IMPORTANT CONVERSATION ABOUT HOW GUN VIOLENCE IMPACTS CHILDREN.
NEW MEXICO InFOCUS STARTS NOW.
Gene: THANKS FOR JOINING US THIS WEEK.
I'M YOUR HOST, GENE GRANT.
GUN VIOLENCE AND COVID-19, TWO HUGE THEMES FOR US THIS WEEK AS A MIDDLE SCHOOL STUDENT IN ALBUQUERQUE APPARENTLY KILLS ANOTHER CHILD ON SCHOOL GROUNDS, AND AS THE DELTA VARIANT OF COVID-19 FORCES A RETURN TO INDOOR MASKING.
WE'LL ALSO TALK ABOUT CENSUS NUMBERS RELEASED LAST WEEK THAT SHOW NEW MEXICANS ARE LEAVING SMALL TOWNS FOR CITIES, AND THAT THE STATE CONTINUES TO LEAD THE NATION IN RESIDENTS WHO IDENTIFY AS HISPANIC OR LATINX.
WE'LL START WITH COVID-19.
HERE'S THE LINE.
Gene: IT'S BACK TO MASKS.
WITH CASES OF THE COVID-19 DELTA VARIANT SPIKING AMONG UNVACCINATED NEW MEXICANS, THE GOVERNOR HAS ORDERED ALL OF US, VACCINATED OR NOT, TO MASK UP.
THE GOVERNOR'S LATEST PUBLIC HEALTH ORDER ALSO HAS VACCINATION REQUIREMENTS FOR SOME HEALTH CARE WORKERS AND SCHOOL STAFF.
HERE TO OFFER SOME THOUGHTS ABOUT THE ORDER AND THE REACTION TO IT IS OUR LINE OPINION PANEL.
FROM THE CARLSBAD CURRENT-ARGUS AND THE USA TODAY NETWORK OF NEWSPAPERS IN SOUTHEAST NEW MEXICO, NEWS DIRECTOR AND EDITOR JESSICA ONSUREZ RETURNS.
GOOD TO SEE YOU, JESSICA.
ATTORNEY AND LINE REGULAR SOPHIE MARTIN IS BACK IN OUR ZOOM ROOM.
AND AS FORMER NEW MEXICO HOUSE MINORITY WHIP, HE'S RIGHT THERE, DAN FOLEY, ANOTHER REGULAR FACE ON OUR PANEL.
NOW, JESSICA, LET'S GET GOING HERE.
THE SOUTHEAST PART OF THE STATE IS HOME TO SOME OF THE LOWEST VACCINATION RATES, AS WE ALL KNOW, AND NOT COINCIDENTLY SOME OF THE FASTEST GROWING CASE COUNTS FOR COVID-19 IN NEW MEXICO.
WHAT'S THE REACTION TO THE GOVERNOR'S MANDATE?
Jessica: WE DON'T LIKE IT, AND WE LIKELY WON'T DO IT.
IT SEEMS TO BE THE -- YOU KNOW, WE IN SOUTHERN NEW MEXICO, SINCE THE BEGINNING OF THIS PANDEMIC, HAVE BEEN VERY VOCAL ABOUT THE MANDATES THAT HAVE COME FROM SANTA FE TO PROTECT.
WELL, I MEAN, FOR EVERYBODY'S GOOD, RIGHT.
THESE THINGS ARE TO PROTECT US AND TO PROTECT THE COMMUNITIES THAT WE LIVE IN, AND THE REST OF THE STATE, TO PROTECT OUR BUSINESSES AND OUR ECONOMY.
BUT WE STILL FEEL THAT IT'S A BIT OF AN INFRINGEMENT, IF YOU ASK MOST PEOPLE AROUND HERE.
BUT YOU ARE TALKING ABOUT A CONSERVATIVE PART OF THE STATE THAT HAS SOME PRETTY BIG ALREADY ISSUES WITH SANTA FE AND THE GOVERNOR AND DEMOCRATIC POLITICS.
(CELLPHONE RINGING) Gene: THAT'S ALL RIGHT.
THAT HAPPENS.
YOU'RE A BUSY NEWSWOMAN: Jessica: MY APOLOGIES.
SO, YOU KNOW, WE HAD EXPECTED THAT THERE WOULD BE STRONGER MANDATES COMING, AND WHEN YOU'RE ASKING SOMEBODY TO JUST WEAR A FACE MASK INDOORS, IF YOU'RE ASKING A PARENT TO PUT A MASK ON A CHILD AS THEY HEAD TO SCHOOL, YOU'LL LIKELY GET SOME PUSHBACK IN SOUTHERN NEW MEXICO.
BUT I THINK FOR THE MOST PART, LOCAL OFFICIALS AT THE COUNTY AND THE CITY LEVEL, AND SCHOOL OFFICIALS, HAVE SAID THAT THEY WILL ABIDE BY THESE NEW MANDATES.
Gene: INTERESTING POINT.
SOPHIE, I'M INTERESTED IN YOUR OPINION ON THIS.
IT'S NOT A POPULAR DECISION BY THE GOVERNOR, NO DOUBT ABOUT THAT, BUT IT'S NOT A SURPRISE, EITHER.
IS IT FAIR TO SAY THIS WAS A PREDICTABLE DECISION?
Sophie: I THINK GIVEN THE RISING RATES AND THE NEWS THAT WE'VE SEEN NATIONWIDE AND LOCALLY ABOUT THE DELTA VARIANT AND COVID, AND I THINK NOT JUST HOW QUICKLY IT SPREADS AMONGST UNVACCINATED INDIVIDUALS, BUT ALSO THE FACT THAT IT APPEARS TO SPREAD PRETTY QUICKLY AMONGST VACCINATED INDIVIDUALS, AS WELL, ALTHOUGH FOR THE MOST PART WITH DIFFERENT IMPACTS IN TERMS OF THEIR HEALTH FOR VACCINATED FOLKS, NO, I DON'T THINK IT'S A REAL SURPRISE.
AND MOST OF WHAT I'M SEEING IS KIND OF A RESIGNATION.
YOU KNOW, YEAH, IT SEEMED LIKE THIS WAS PROBABLY COMING, SOMETHING LIKE THIS.
WHAT MAY BE A LITTLE BIT MORE SURPRISING TO PEOPLE, THOUGH, ARE THE VARIETY OF MANDATES RELATING TO VACCINES.
I THINK THAT IS PROBABLY WHERE WE'RE GOING TO SEE MORE PUSHBACK IN THE COURTS.
YOU KNOW, I'M NOT A BETTING WOMAN, BUT SO FAR IT SEEMS TO ME THAT THE MANDATES REGARDING VACCINES THAT HAVE COME OUT ACROSS THE COUNTRY AND IN NEW MEXICO HAVE BEEN PRETTY CAREFULLY TAILORED TO COVER THOSE GROUPS THAT STATE GOVERNMENT -- AT LEAST IN OUR CASE IT'S STATE GOVERNMENT -- DOES HAVE SOME AUTHORITY OVER, AND SO I SUSPECT THAT THOSE MANDATES MAY SURVIVE COURT CHALLENGES.
BUT I ALSO EXPECT THOSE CHALLENGES ARE TO COME.
Gene: INTERESTING POINTS THERE.
HEY, DANIEL, THE GOVERNOR ALSO IMPLEMENTED A HARD AND FAST VACCINE MANDATE FOR SOME HOSPITAL WORKERS AND THOSE IN CONGREGANT CARE FACILITIES, LIKE NURSING HOMES.
THERE ARE FEW EXCEPTIONS AND A TIGHT TIMELINE.
DO YOU EXPECT MOST PROVIDERS TO ABIDE?
MEANING, WE'VE GONE THROUGH THIS LAP ONCE, AND NOW PROVIDERS -- THEY GOT PRETTY BEAT UP THE FIRST LAP AROUND.
IS IT GOING TO BE A DIFFERENT ATTITUDE THIS TIME?
Dan: I THINK THERE'S A DIFFERENCE BETWEEN WHAT THE PROVIDERS ARE GOING TO DO AND WHAT THE EMPLOYEES ARE GOING TO WANT TO DO.
I THINK YOU MAY GET A LOT OF BUY-IN FROM BUSINESSES SAYING, OKAY, MAYBE WE SHOULD DO THIS.
I'M NOT SURE YOU'RE GOING TO GET A LOT OF BUY-IN FROM -- YOU KNOW, BY THIS TIME, IF YOU HAVEN'T BEEN VACCINATED BY NOW, I'M NOT SURE THERE'S MUCH THAT'S GOING TO ENERGIZE SOMEONE TO GO GET VACCINATED.
THE HOLD-OUTS SEEM TO BE PEOPLE THAT DON'T BELIEVE THEY SHOULD GET VACCINATED.
AND YOU KNOW, QUITE HONESTLY, THE HANDLING OF THIS THING SO FAR JUST KEEPS LEADING THESE PEOPLE TO HAVE MORE AND MORE TREPIDATION TOWARDS DOING THIS.
I MEAN, WE WERE TOLD, GET THE VACCINATION, AND WE GET THE VACCINATION, AND THEN YOU TOLD US NOW YOU'RE PART OF ALL THE MANDATES EVEN THOUGH YOU ARE VACCINATED.
NOW THEY'RE TELLING YOU YOU'VE GOT TO GET ANOTHER BOOSTER SHOT, POTENTIALLY, IF YOU'VE BEEN VACCINATED.
THE MESSAGE HAS JUST BEEN HORRIFIC.
SO I THINK THAT NOT ONLY ARE YOU GOING TO CONTINUE TO GET PUSHBACK FROM THE FOLKS WHO REFUSED IT, I CAN TELL YOU FROM A LOT OF PEOPLE I KNOW WHO WERE EARLY ON VACCINATED, FOLKS WHO HAVE NOT BEEN ONES THAT HAVE BEEN LIKE, OH, THIS IS A CONSPIRACY, THIS IS A WAY SOMEBODY'S TRYING TO TAKE OVER THE WORLD, THERE'S A LOT OF PEOPLE NOW THAT I'VE TALKED TO THAT ARE LIKE, YEAH, SOMETHING'S WRONG HERE.
THIS IS JUST NOT RIGHT.
AND SO I JUST THINK THAT YOU'RE GOING TO SEE A MORE GROWING SENTIMENT, AND I'M NOT SURE OF THE ANSWER.
Gene: DAN, LET ME ASK YOU THIS, THOUGH, TOO.
IS THERE A RISK -- I MEAN, I'M SEEING ON FACEBOOK A LOT OF FOLKS, PROVIDERS, SAYING THEY'RE GOING TO LEAVE THE STATE.
YOU KNOW, PEOPLE WHO WORK IN HOSPITALS ARE SAYING, I'VE GOT A LOT OF OPTIONS EITHER DIRECTION, ALL THREE DIRECTIONS OUT OF HERE ACROSS THE STATE LINES.
Dan: YOU KNOW, WE HAVE A TOUGH TIME ATTRACTING HEALTH CARE WORKERS, ESPECIALLY SPECIALISTS.
I MEAN, YOU START TALKING ABOUT -- LIKE, IF YOU LOOK FOR A PEDIATRIC NEUROLOGIST IN NEW MEXICO, AIN'T HAPPENING.
YOU'RE NOT GETTING IT.
Gene: I HEAR THAT, BUT ON MASK USE, IS THAT ENOUGH TO DRIVE SOMEONE OUT OF THE STATE?
Dan: I THINK THAT MASK USE IN CONJUNCTION WITH THE CONSISTENT BARRAGE IN PEOPLE'S MINDS OF AN EROSION OF THEIR FREEDOM AND NOT GETTING A STRAIGHT ANSWER IS I THINK SOMETHING THAT'S GOING TO CAUSE PEOPLE -- ESPECIALLY FOR US WHEN YOU CAN GO LEFT OR RIGHT FROM NEW MEXICO AND GO TO A STATE THAT'S DEFINITELY NOT IN THE SAME MOVEMENT AS NEW MEXICO IS.
ESPECIALLY IF YOU START LOOKING AT THE SOUTHEASTERN PART OF THE STATE, YOU CAN LIVE IN CARLSBAD OR YOU CAN LIVE IN LUBBOCK.
THERE'S A 50-MINUTE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN THE TWO, AND ONE OF THEM CHANGES THE OUTCOMES ON WHAT YOU'RE ALLOWED TO DO.
I THINK IT'S GOING TO EFFECT PLACES LIKE THAT DRAMATICALLY.
Gene: I'VE GOT TO SWING BACK TO JESSICA ON THAT NOTE, FOR SURE.
FIRST OF ALL, ON A PERSONAL NOTE, ARE YOU COMFORTABLE WHERE YOU LIVE SEEING PEOPLE ALL UNMASKED LIKE THAT?
Jessica: YOU KNOW, YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT, FOR AS BIG AS CARLSBAD IS AND AS IMPORTANT A ROLE AS SOUTHEASTERN NEW MEXICO PLAYS IN THE STATE, YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT A RELATIVELY SMALL COMMUNITY WHERE PEOPLE TALK TO EACH OTHER AND KNOW EACH OTHER AND CONSIDER EACH OTHER FAMILY AND FRIENDS AND COLLEAGUES.
I CAN SAY ON A PERSONAL LEVEL, I AM COMFORTABLE BACK AT WORK, I AM COMFORTABLE AMONG MY FAMILY, I'M COMFORTABLE AMONG MY COMMUNITY.
BUT THAT'S BECAUSE I'M AMONG PEOPLED THAT I KNOW AND WHOSE SITUATIONS I UNDERSTAND, AND WHO HAVE BEEN FOR THE MOST PART VERY ACCOMMODATING WHEN IT COMES TO DOING WHAT'S REQUIRED TO KEEP EACH OTHER SAFE.
SO WE'RE TALKING ABOUT A VERY RURAL COMMUNITY, AS WELL.
SO WE HAVE FAMILIES WITHIN THIS COMMUNITY WHO DO AS DAN SAID, RIGHT.
THEIR RESPONSE TO ALL OF THIS IS, WE DON'T BELIEVE YOU, WE DON'T TRUST WHAT YOU'RE TELLING US ABOUT WHY IT'S IMPORTANT WE DO THESE THINGS, AND WE'RE JUST NOT GOING TO COMPLY.
Gene: SOPHIE, THE BIG ONE I'M HEARING A LOT OF CHATTER ABOUT IS YOU'VE GOT TO HAVE A MASK TO GET INTO THE STATE FAIR, AND A LOT OF FOLKS -- IT'S A BIG ONE.
Sophie: WELL, IT'S NOT JUST A MASK, RIGHT.
AM I RIGHT?
Gene: AND VACCINATED.
Sophie: RIGHT, A VACCINE OR A RECENT NEGATIVE TEST.
YOU KNOW, IT'S FUNNY, JUST AS A SIDE NOTE, I HAVEN'T HEARD MUCH IN NEW MEXICO, AND MAYBE I'VE JUST MISSED IT, ABOUT THE FACT THAT YOU CAN NOW GET ONE-OFF AT HOME VACCINE TESTS THROUGH DRUG STORES, THROUGH AMAZON, ETC.
AND SO IT IS NOT JUST THAT YOU HAVE TO DRIVE THROUGH THE STATE FAIRGROUNDS, WHICH I THINK ACTUALLY YOU CAN'T DO ANYMORE.
Gene: HOW IS THAT GOING TO GO DOWN AT THE GATE?
Dan: THEY'RE NOT VERY GOOD, THOUGH.
I MEAN, THE RATIO -- A FRIEND OF MINE HAS TO DO THEM FOR HIS WORK, AND THEY'RE WRONG MORE THAN THEY'RE RIGHT.
Sophie: THAT'S NOT ACTUALLY QUITE CORRECT.
NO, THEY'RE NOT AS GOOD AS SOME OF THE OTHER TESTS, BUT THE ADVANTAGE -- YOU KNOW, NOT THAT I'M SELLING THESE -- BUT THE ADVANTAGE IS THAT YOU GET AN ANSWER WHILE YOU'RE STILL AT HOME.
BUT I THINK THE STATE FAIR IS ONE OF THOSE EXAMPLES OF THE GOVERNOR BELIEVES THAT SHE HAS THE POWER OVER STATE-SPONSORED ACTIVITIES AND IS GOING TO USE THAT.
WHAT WE HAVE SEEN IN SOME CASES IS THAT WHEN FOR PEOPLE IT BECOMES MORE INCONVENIENT NOT TO HAVE THE VACCINE THAN TO HAVE THE VACCINE, AND IF THEY DON'T HAVE A STRONG IDEOLOGICAL REASON FOR NOT GETTING IT, THEY'LL GO AHEAD AND GET IT.
SO WE DO SEE SOME OF THAT.
ONE THING THAT I THINK IS REALLY INTERESTING THAT DAN BROUGHT UP JUST A MOMENT AGO IS THIS ISSUE OF THE BOOSTER.
SO I WAS SPEAKING TO A PHARMACIST IN ANOTHER STATE THE OTHER DAY AND HE SAID, WE'RE CHECKING REALLY CAREFULLY TO MAKE SURE YOU REALLY QUALIFY FOR A BOOSTER, AND I CHECKED ON THE STATE'S WEBSITE, NEW MEXICO'S WEBSITE TODAY.
IF YOU HAVEN'T ALREADY TOLD THEM THAT YOU HAVE ONE OF THOSE PREEXISTING CONDITIONS, THEY WON'T SIGN YOU UP FOR A THIRD SHOT AT THIS POINT.
Gene: OH, WOW.
Sophie: WE KNOW THAT OVER A MILLION PEOPLE HAVE ALREADY GONE AHEAD AND SOMEHOW FINAGLED, OR IN CERTAIN CASES HAVE GOTTEN THEIR DOCTOR'S OKAY TO GET A BOOSTER SHOT, BUT THERE DOES APPEAR TO BE QUITE A BIT OF DEMAND AROUND THAT THIRD SHOT.
Gene: INTERESTING POINT THERE.
Dan: GENE, I THINK, BEFORE YOU GO, I THINK IT'S ALSO IMPORTANT TO SAY, TOO, THAT WE'RE HAVING THIS CONVERSATION ABOUT PEOPLE NOT WANTING TO GET VACCINATED, AND AT THE VERY SAME TIME BOTH OF OUR U.S.
SENATORS SAID THAT TO COME INTO THIS COUNTRY, YOU DON'T HAVE TO BE VACCINATED, YOU DON'T GET TO BE TESTED.
BUT YET NEW MEXICO CITIZENS, WE'RE GOING TO SEND DOWN A MANDATE THAT SAYS YOU CAN'T DO THINGS AND YOU HAVE TO BE TESTED.
THAT'S THE KIND OF MESSAGE THAT PEOPLE ARE SAYING, HOLD ON A SECOND.
IF WE'VE GOT THIS RUN ON THE BORDER AND YOU'RE LETTING PEOPLE IN, AND THEY DON'T HAVE TO BE VACCINATED AND THEY DON'T HAVE TO BE TESTED, BUT YOU'RE TELLING ME THAT I HAVE TO BE VACCINATED AND I HAVE TO BE TESTED BEFORE I CAN GO TO SCHOOL, BEFORE I CAN GO TO MY JOB, BEFORE I CAN GO OUT TO DINNER, THAT'S I THINK THE KIND OF MESSAGE THAT IS CONSISTENTLY DIVIDING PEOPLE IN THE STATE AND THEY'RE SAYING, ENOUGH IS ENOUGH.
Gene: GOOD LAST NOTE THERE.
MORE TO COME ON THIS FRONT IN THE WEEKS AND MONTHS AHEAD.
NOW, WE'LL HAVE TO LEAVE IT THERE.
WE'RE ON THE CRIME BEAT WHEN THE LINE RETURNS.
Dr. Carroll: WHAT WE KNOW IS THAT YOU DO NOT HAVE TO BE THE DIRECT VICTIM OF A VIOLENT ACT TO BE TRAUMATIZED BY IT.
IN FACT, THERE'S A LOT OF EVIDENCE THAT THE WITNESSES TO THE VIOLENT ACT ARE SOMETIMES ACTUALLY TRAUMATIZED MORE SEVERELY THAN THE VICTIM THEMSELF.
SO IN MANY WAYS, WITNESSING IS PART OF WHAT PREDISPOSES YOU TO BE PROFOUNDLY VICTIMIZED.
Gene: BROADCAST METEOROLOGIST JORGE TORRES KNOWS THE WEATHER OF THE SOUTHWEST.
HE'S WORKED IN EL PASO, ALBUQUERQUE, AND NOW PHOENIX, WHERE HE'S AT ABC-15 ARIZONA.
HE ALSO UNDERSTANDS THE CLIMATE AND THE IMPORTANCE OF COVERING CLIMATE CHANGE FOR LOCAL AUDIENCES.
NOW, ENVIRONMENT CORRESPONDENT LAURA PASKUS CAUGHT UP WITH MR. TORRES, WHO MANY OF YOU MIGHT RECOGNIZE FROM HIS YEARS AT KOB CHANNEL 4 HERE IN ALBUQUERQUE.
THE TWO TALK ABOUT THE CLIMATE IMPACTS IN THE SOUTHWEST AND THE CHALLENGES AND REWARDS OF COVERING CLIMATE CHANGE ON THE LOCAL NEWS.
Laura: JORGE TORRES, YOU'RE AT ABC-15 IN ARIZONA NOW, BUT OUR VIEWERS WILL KNOW YOU FROM KOB CHANNEL 4 HERE IN ALBUQUERQUE.
WELCOME TO NEW MEXICO InFOCUS.
IT IS GREAT TO SEE YOU.
Jorge: LIKEWISE, LAURA.
GREAT TO BE CHATTING WITH YOU AND EVERYONE WATCHING FROM NEW MEXICO, WHICH WAS MY HOME FOR A LONG BUT ENJOYABLE SIX YEARS.
Laura: WE'RE REALLY GLAD TO HAVE YOU.
SO THE INTERGOVERNMENTAL PANEL ON CLIMATE CHANGE CAME OUT WITH ITS ASSESSMENT REPORT LAST WEEK.
I'M CURIOUS, HOW DID ABC-15 COVER THAT REPORT?
AND EVEN THOUGH SOUTHERN ARIZONA AND NEW MEXICO DO HAVE SOME DIFFERENCES, WHAT ARE THE BIG TAKE-HOMES FOR THE U.S. SOUTHWEST?
Jorge: WELL, ONE OF THE TAKE-AWAYS THAT WE SAW FROM THE REPORT IS THAT HUMAN ACTIVITIES ARE INFLUENCING WHAT'S HAPPENING AROUND US.
INCREASED CARBON DIOXIDE EMISSIONS ARE WARMING THE PLANET, AND WE SEE THAT PREVALENTLY HERE IN THE SOUTHWEST.
WE'RE TALKING PROLONGED HEAT WAVES, PROLONGED DROUGHTS, AND THAT'S IMPACTING ALL OF US.
AND WE DID THAT STORY IN TWO WAYS.
WE TALKED TO ONE OF THE AUTHORS OF THE IPCC REPORT, WHO HAPPENS TO BE A UNIVERSITY OF ARIZONA PROFESSOR.
SO THAT BROUGHT IT CLOSER TO THE LOCAL PERSPECTIVE, AS TO HOW SOMEONE WHO STUDIES CLIMATE HERE AND HOW IT IMPACTS US.
AND THEN WE FOLLOWED IT UP WITH PRESIDENT BIDEN'S INFRASTRUCTURE BILL THAT'S GOING THROUGH CONGRESS AS WE SPEAK AND SOME OF THE CLIMATE-RESILIENT IMPROVEMENT PROJECTS THAT ARE PLANNED WITHIN THAT BILL, AND HOW THAT WOULD IMPACT ARIZONA AND PEOPLE IN THE SOUTHWEST, TOO.
Laura: SO MORE BROADLY SPEAKING, HOW DOES ABC-15 INCORPORATE CLIMATE CHANGE INTO ITS NEWS COVERAGE, AND KIND OF WHAT IS YOUR ROLE AS A METEOROLOGIST IN SORT OF EITHER WORKING WITH THE NEWS TEAM OR PITCHING STORIES TO THE NEWS TEAM?
Jorge: WELL, AS A METEOROLOGIST, I'M ALSO WHAT'S KNOWN AS A STATION SCIENTIST.
I HELP BRIDGE THE GAP BETWEEN THE SCIENCE AND THE COMMUNITY AS TO WHAT THIS ALL MEANS FOR US.
AND MY JOB HERE IS TO OBVIOUSLY TALK ABOUT WEATHER, BUT ALSO TALK ABOUT HOW WEATHER AND CLIMATE PLAY A ROLE IN OUR LIVES AND CONNECTING THE DOTS.
OVER THE PAST FEW WEEKS, WE'VE NOTICED SOME SIGNIFICANT CHANGES IN OUR FORECAST HERE IN ARIZONA WITH THE MONSOON.
WE'RE SEEING A LOT MORE STORMS COMPARED TO THE PAST TWO YEARS, WHEN WE HAD ABSOLUTELY NOTHING.
AND WHAT I DO IS CONNECT THE DOTS.
HOW IS CLIMATE CHANGE AND WHAT'S HAPPENING NOW CONNECTED?
AND WE'RE SEEING, AT LEAST FOR THE PAST FEW WEEKS HERE, WE'RE SEEING MORE STORMS.
WITH THE ATMOSPHERE HOLDING MORE WATER, BECAUSE IT'S WARMER, A LOT MORE RAIN IS COMING, WHICH LEADS TO EXTREME AND DEVASTATING FLOODS.
AND WE'VE HAD, UNFORTUNATELY, SOME DEADLY FLOODS HERE OVER JUST THE PAST FEW WEEKS.
AND WITH THAT, WE GET SOME ASSISTANCE FROM ONE OF OUR PARTNERS, KNOWN AS CLIMATE CENTRAL.
THEY'RE A NONPARTISAN CLIMATE-BASED SCIENCE GROUP FULL OF METEOROLOGISTS AND CLIMATE SCIENTISTS WHO MAKE GRAPHICS AND CHARTS SHOWING FOR EACH RESPECTIVE STATE AND CITY HOW THE CLIMATE THERE HAS CHANGED OVER THE PAST 20, 30, 50, EVEN 100 YEARS.
AND WE USE THAT NOT IN EVERY NEWSCAST OR WEATHERCAST, BUT WHEN APPLICABLE.
AND IT HAS BEEN AT LEAST OVER THE PAST FEW WEEKS AND MONTHS, AND ALSO FOR THE PAST FEW YEARS.
WE'VE BEEN USING THEM FOR A WHILE.
Laura: SO THIS SUMMER YOU ALL ARE DEALING WITH THESE DEVASTATING DROUGHTS, THESE BIG STORMS, AND YET WE'RE ALSO SEEING THE HEADLINES.
YOU KNOW, COLORADO RIVER SHORTAGES, DROUGHT.
HOW DO YOU COMMUNICATE THAT ALL OF THESE THINGS ARE HAPPENING AND RELATED TO CLIMATE CHANGE, AND BIG STORMS DON'T NECESSARILY CANCEL OUT DROUGHT?
I MEAN, THAT'S A TRICKY STORY TO GET ACROSS TO THE PUBLIC.
Jorge: IT IS.
WHEN PEOPLE HAVE SEEN THAT IT'S BEEN RAINING, OH, GREAT, DROUGHT'S OVER.
IT'S NOT THAT SIMPLE.
WE WISH IT WAS, BUT THAT'S JUST NOT THE CASE.
WE NEED THE STORMS TO BE PROLONGED, WE NEED THEM TO BE CONSISTENT.
THAT HAS BEEN THE ISSUE.
WHEN IT DOES RAIN, IT'S VERY INCONSISTENT.
AND THEN THE DROUGHT, IT HAS BEEN CONSISTENT.
AND THEN ON MONDAY, THE BUREAU OF RECLAMATION FOR THE FIRST TIME EVER DECLARED A WATER SHORTAGE AT LAKE MEAD, WHICH DIRECTLY IMPACTS PLACES LIKE ARIZONA, NEVADA, AND EVEN THE COUNTRY OF MEXICO.
NOW FOR ARIZONA, THIS MEANS LESS WATER FOR FARMERS IN PINAL COUNTY, WHICH IS JUST SOUTH OF THE PHOENIX METRO.
SO IT'S ALREADY IMPACTING US.
THE DROUGHT, THE PROLONGED DROUGHT, IS ALREADY HAVING AN IMPACT ON ARIZONA AND PEOPLE ACROSS THE SOUTHWEST, AND UNFORTUNATELY, CLIMATE CHANGE MAY CONTINUE TO MEAN PROLONGED AND SEVERE DROUGHTS, AND PERHAPS EVEN MORE WATER CUTS IN THE FUTURE.
Laura: SO ONE OF THE THINGS -- WHEN YOU WERE HERE IN NEW MEXICO, I BECAME AN IMMEDIATE FAN OF YOURS, BECAUSE YOU WERE POSTING ON SOCIAL MEDIA ABOUT CLIMATE CHANGE, WHICH FROM MY PERSPECTIVE AND MY EXPERIENCE, A LOT OF METEOROLOGISTS AT COMMERCIAL TELEVISION STATIONS FOR A LONG TIME HAVE NOT REALLY BEEN TALKING ABOUT CLIMATE CHANGE.
I'M CURIOUS IF YOU COULD TALK A LITTLE BIT ABOUT WHY THAT MIGHT BE.
LIKE, WHY CLIMATE CHANGE DOESN'T MAKE IT INTO SORT OF FORECAST BROADCAST CONVERSATIONS, AND MAYBE WHAT SOME OF THE CHALLENGES ARE AROUND GETTING THAT BIG TOPIC INTO A SHORT PART OF THE NEWS SEGMENT.
Jorge: WELL, FOR A LOT OF METEOROLOGISTS, CLIMATE SCIENCE IS SOMETHING THAT'S HONESTLY KIND OF OUT OF THEIR AREA OF EXPERTISE, BECAUSE WEATHER IS STUDYING ABOUT WHAT'S HAPPENING MORE OR LESS IN THE NEAR-TERM AND OBSERVING PATTERNS IN THE SHORT-TERM.
CLIMATE CHANGE, YOU'RE TALKING HUNDREDS OF YEARS, THOUSANDS OF YEARS, EVEN MILLIONS OF YEARS.
SO THAT KNOWLEDGE FOR MOST METEOROLOGISTS IS NOT AS WELL KNOWN AS JUST WEATHER FORECASTING AND METEOROLOGY, ITSELF.
WITH THAT BEING SAID, WE HAVE BEEN LEARNING A LOT MORE ABOUT HOW CLIMATE IS IMPACTING US, AND WE'VE TALKED TO A LOT OF EXPERTS, A LOT OF SCIENTISTS, A LOT OF PROFESSORS IN ACADEMIA ABOUT HOW CLIMATE IS CHANGING.
AND SO WITH THAT, WE'RE GETTING A BETTER UNDERSTANDING AND AN UNDERSTANDING THAT SCIENTISTS KNOW WHAT THEY'RE TALKING ABOUT.
THEY'VE BEEN STUDYING THIS FOR DECADES.
SO WE ARE VERY CONFIDENT NOW THAT WE'RE STARTING TO POST MORE.
WE'RE SEEING IT A LOT MORE.
A LOT MORE METEOROLOGISTS ARE BEGINNING TO POST MORE AND TALK MORE ABOUT CLIMATE AND CLIMATE CHANGE, EVEN IN AREAS WHERE PEOPLE MAY DISAGREE WITH IT AND MAY EVEN BECOME, ON SOCIAL MEDIA, ANYWAYS, A BIT NEGATIVE WHEN IT COMES TO COMMENTING.
BUT IT'S ALL ABOUT THE SCIENCE, AND WE TRUST THE SCIENCE AND WE UNDERSTAND THAT CLIMATE IS CHANGING.
Laura: ONE OF THE THINGS THAT I ALWAYS FIND REALLY INTERESTING ABOUT COVERING CLIMATE CHANGE AS A REPORTER IS IT'S THIS BIG GLOBAL STORY, AND OFTEN YOU HAVE THE BIG NATIONAL OUTLETS DO LIKE A BIG ATTENTION-GETTING STORY ON CLIMATE CHANGE, AND THOSE ARE SUPER IMPORTANT, BUT I'M A BIG FAN OF REPETITIVE LOCALIZED REPORTING THAT GETS TO YOUR LOCAL AUDIENCE SO THEY UNDERSTAND WHAT'S HAPPENING IN THEIR OWN COMMUNITIES AND ACROSS THEIR OWN LANDSCAPES.
AND I'M CURIOUS HOW YOU THINK THAT TV METEOROLOGISTS MIGHT BE ABLE TO DO A BETTER JOB OF KIND OF GETTING THAT SUSTAINED COVERAGE INTO THAT DAILY COVERAGE THAT SO MANY PEOPLE SEE.
Jorge: I THINK THE KEY IS JUST BEING WILLING TO DO IT.
WE HAVE THE OPPORTUNITY.
SCIENTISTS -- OR METEOROLOGISTS, IN FACT, ARE SOME OF THE ONLY PEOPLE THAT PEOPLE, THAT VIEWERS, KNOW THAT ARE SCIENTISTS THAT ARE IN THEIR HOMES ALMOST EVERY DAY, SO WE HAVE THE OPPORTUNITY TO PRESENT THAT INFORMATION ON A DAILY BASIS.
AND METEOROLOGISTS TEND TO BE SOME OF THE MORE TRUSTWORTHY PEOPLE WHEN IT COMES TO NEWS AND LOCAL TELEVISION.
PEOPLE COME TO US BECAUSE THEY WANT TO KNOW WHAT'S HAPPENING IN THEIR DAY, THEY WANT TO KNOW HOW THIS WILL IMPACT THEIR LIVES.
AND IF THEY'RE WATCHING SOMEONE THEY TRUST TALK ABOUT THESE ISSUES, THEY'RE LIKE, OKAY, THERE MUST BE SOMETHING THERE.
Laura: FOR THOSE WHO MIGHT BE EVEN STILL TODAY RELUCTANT TO TAKE ON THE TOPIC FOR FEAR OF ALIENATING EITHER THEIR NEWSROOM COLLEAGUES OR BOSSES OR THE AUDIENCE, WHAT ADVICE DO YOU HAVE FOR THEM?
Jorge: YOU KNOW WHAT, I ACTUALLY HAD THIS ISSUE WHEN I WORKED IN NEW MEXICO.
BUT YOU HAVE TO FIND WAYS TO PRESENT IT IN A WAY THAT PERHAPS ISN'T AS OBVIOUS AS, SAY, WHAT WE DO HERE IN ARIZONA.
BUT JUST PRESENT SOME SIMPLE DATA.
FOR EXAMPLE, THERE WERE SEVERAL YEARS WHERE THE NEW MEXICO DROUGHT WAS JUST PERSISTENT.
JUST SHOW HOW LONG IT'S BEEN COMPARED TO PREVIOUS YEARS, AND JUST SHOW THAT TREND CONTINUING.
YOU DON'T HAVE TO SAY, 'OH, CLIMATE CHANGE IS CAUSING THIS,' BUT JUST SAY, 'OVER THE YEARS, WE'VE NOTICED THESE TRENDS HAVE BEEN CONTINUING.'
AND THAT, IN AND OF ITSELF, IS HOW YOU CAN PRESENT IT WITHOUT FULLY PRESENTING IT.
Laura: SO I'M CURIOUS IF YOU HAVE ANY ADVICE OUT THERE FOR OTHER METEOROLOGISTS WHO ARE COVERING WEATHER LOCALLY OR OTHER REPORTERS IN COMMERCIAL TV NEWSROOMS WHO MAYBE WANT TO INCORPORATE MORE CLIMATE SCIENCE INTO THEIR NEWS COVERAGE.
Jorge: WELL, ONE THING I LEARNED BEING IN THIS BUSINESS ALREADY FOR A LONG TIME IS THAT THERE ARE SO MANY EXPERTS, SO MANY AVENUES OUT THERE TO GET THIS INFORMATION, AND THERE'S ALWAYS NEW RESEARCH BEING DONE, NEW PUBLICATIONS BEING PUT OUT, ABOUT WHETHER, ABOUT CLIMATE, ABOUT CLIMATE CHANGE AND HOW IT IMPACTS LOCAL COMMUNITIES.
I KNOW THAT IN NEW MEXICO, FIRSTHAND, YOU HAVE A GREAT WATER BLOGGER IN JOHN FLECK, WHO IS SUPER WELL-KNOWN IN THE COMMUNITY, IN THE WATER COMMUNITY, SPECIFICALLY, AND HERE IN ARIZONA, TOO.
SO THERE ARE RESOURCES AVAILABLE FOR YOU TO TALK TO WHEN IT COMES TO THESE SCIENCE AND ENVIRONMENTALLY RELATED TOPICS.
NOW, AS FAR AS PRESENTING THIS ON AIR FOR A METEOROLOGIST, FOR EXAMPLE, AND YOU'RE CONCERNED ABOUT, YOU KNOW, YOU'RE ONE OF THE MORE TRUSTED PEOPLE ON TELEVISION, BUT YET YOU TALK ABOUT CLIMATE CHANGE AND THEN PEOPLE START TO BE LIKE, NO, I DON'T KNOW ABOUT THAT.
KEEP AT IT.
THERE ARE RESOURCES AVAILABLE, THERE ARE OTHER COLLEAGUES IN THE BUSINESS WHO HAVE GONE THROUGH SIMILAR PUSHBACKS.
BUT KNOW THAT THE AVENUE IS THERE TO GO, ESPECIALLY IN A PLACE LIKE NEW MEXICO WHERE YOU'RE NOTICING CLIMATE CHANGE, AS WELL.
THE WATER ISSUE IS NOT GOING AWAY, THE DROUGHT ISSUE IS NOT GOING AWAY, EITHER, AND THE WILDFIRE ISSUE IS NOT GOING AWAY.
Laura: JORGE, I CAN'T THANK YOU ENOUGH.
I REALLY APPRECIATE YOU POPPING INTO THE NEW MEXICO AUDIENCE TO TALK WITH US ABOUT THIS, AND I REALLY FOUND YOU TO TRULY BE A LEADER AS A TELEVISION METEOROLOGIST COVERING CLIMATE CHANGE, AND I'M REALLY THANKFUL FOR THAT.
SO THANKS FOR JOINING ME.
Jorge: THANK YOU.
AND HELLO AGAIN AND GOODBYE TO EVERYONE IN NEW MEXICO.
SAVE SOME GREEN CHILI FOR ME!
Gene: ONE THING THAT DOESN'T SUFFER FROM A LACK OF COVERAGE ON LOCAL NEWS BROADCASTS IS CRIME.
IT HAS BEEN A PARTICULARLY TOUGH STRETCH RECENTLY WITH THE SHOOTING AND DEATH OF AN ALBUQUERQUE MIDDLE SCHOOL STUDENT BY WHAT POLICE SAY WAS ONE OF HIS CLASSMATES.
ALSO A DEADLY SHOOTING IN A SPORTS BAR IN THE CITY'S POPULAR UPTOWN AREA.
NOW, THOSE HIGH PROFILE CASES ARE PART OF A RECORD SETTING YEAR FOR HOMICIDES HERE IN ALBUQUERQUE AND SPARKED A RENEWED INTEREST IN CRIME LEGISLATION AS WELL AS ANOTHER DEPLOYMENT OF STATE POLICE TO ALBUQUERQUE.
SOPHIE, IT IS PRACTICALLY HUMAN NATURE TO ASK WHAT COULD HAVE BEEN DONE TO STOP THE SHOOTING AT WASHINGTON MIDDLE SCHOOL.
THEY SAY THE ACCUSED' SHOOTERS FATHER HAD A HISTORY OF IRRESPONSIBLE GUN OWNERSHIP AS WE ARE LEARNING NOW.
Sophie: I MEAN, I AM NOT SURE THAT THAT PARTICULAR SHOOTING WAS PREDICTABLE IN ADVANCE.
ALTHOUGH, THERE HAD BEEN SOME TALK OF THE SHOOTER SEEN -- Gene: WELL, SHOOTER'S FATHER HAD A HISTORY, YOU KNOW.
HE HAD A 2018 FIGHT AT HIGHLANDS.
HE SHOT A MAN.
I MEAN HIS MOM, YOU KNOW, ATTACKED ANOTHER MOTHER IN A CLASSROOM.
Sophie: WELL, YOU MIGHT HAVE PREDICTED THAT HE WOULD SHOOT AT A SCHOOL BUT NOT NECESSARILY HIS KID.
BUT WHAT WE DO SEE IS THERE HAS BEEN LONG-STANDING RESISTANCE IN THE STATE TO LEGISLATION THAT WOULD MAKE THE PARENT MORE RESPONSIBLE IN SITUATIONS LIKE THIS, FOR LEAVING GUNS UNLOCKED, ET CETERA.
UNFORTUNATELY, IN MY MIND THE LEGISLATION THAT HAS BEEN PROPOSED IS NOT NECESSARILY STRONG ENOUGH.
IT IS WHAT HAS BEEN PROPOSED UNDER WHAT IS CALLED BENNY'S LAW BUT IT IS, AT LEAST, A START.
THERE DOES NOT APPEAR TO BE A LOT OF APPETITE, DESPITE MANY OF THE HIGH PROFILE SHOOTINGS WE HAVE SEEN AROUND THE COUNTRY AND IN THIS STATE, FOR STRONGER REGULATION IN THOSE CIRCUMSTANCES.
WE KNOW CHILDREN DO NOT HAVE FULLY DEVELOPED BRAINS AND WE ACKNOWLEDGE THAT THEIR PARENTS SHOULD BE RESPONSIBLE FOR DECISION MAKING FOR CHILDREN BUT SOMEHOW WE FAIL TO ESTABLISH THAT PARENTS WILL BE RESPONSIBLE FOR THIS TYPE OF DECISION MAKING, CERTAINLY NOT AT THE LEVEL THAT SEEMS TO BE NECESSARY.
Gene: I SHOULD REMIND FOLKS AS WE RECORD THIS WE ARE ALSO FOLLOWING THE UNFORTUNATE SITUATION WITH TWO OFFICERS SHOT IN NORTHEAST ALBUQUERQUE THURSDAY MORNING.
SO WE ARE CONSIDERING THAT AS WELL AS WE DISCUSS THIS.
AND, DANIEL, LET ME MOVE ON HERE.
NEW MEXICO HAS A RED FLAG LAW ON THE BOOKS TO TEMPORARILY SEIZE GUNS ON PEOPLE WHO SEEM TO BE A THREAT TO THEMSELVES OR OTHERS.
IT HAS BEEN USED FOUR TIMES SINCE IT WENT INTO EFFECT.
AND I SHOULD POINT OUT THAT THE 2018 SHOOTING, HE WASN'T EVEN CHARGED BY APD AND PREDATES THE SEIZURE LAW.
BUT IS THERE MORE OF AN OPENING FOR MORE EFFECTIVE USE OF THAT PARTICULAR LAW HERE?
Dan: YEAH.
I AM NOT SURE THAT THERE IS AN OPENING FOR A MORE EFFECTIVE USE OF THAT LAW.
I THINK IT JUST IS THE BASIC QUESTION WHY ARE WE NOT USING THE LAWS THAT WE HAVE ON THE BOOKS TODAY.
Gene: LET'S TALK ABOUT THAT PARTICULAR ONE.
WE HAVE A RED FLAG LAW THAT WAS VIGOROUSLY DEBATED FROM EXACTLY THESE KIND OF SITUATIONS.
IS IT NOT THE RIGHT TIME?
Dan: BUT I DON'T KNOW WHAT YOU MEAN THAT LAW AS TO THIS SITUATION.
THE RED FLAG LAW WAS GOING TO KEEP THE KID FROM BEING AROUND A GUN?
I MEAN, THE PROBLEM IS THAT THE KID HAS GOT A PROBLEM, RIGHT?
THE KID HASN'T LEARNED, IN MY OPINION, THERE IS CONSEQUENCES FOR YOUR ACTIONS.
IN 2018 HE SAW HIS FATHER SHOOT SOMEBODY OR HE KNOWS THAT HIS FATHER SHOT SOMEBODY AND NOTHING HAPPENED TO THE GUY.
HE DIDN'T GET PROSECUTED.
SO, THAT TELLS A YOUNG DEVELOPING MIND THAT THAT LEVEL OF ESCALATION IN A VIOLENT SITUATION IS OKAY.
BECAUSE, LISTEN, MY DAD DID IT AND NOTHING HAPPENED TO MY DAD.
SO, I THINK IT COMES BACK TO NOT THE FACT WE SHOULD BE EXPANDING LAWS AND PUTTING NEW LAWS ON THE BOOKS.
WE HAVE A PROBLEM WITH ENFORCING CURRENT LAWS WE HAVE ON THE BOOKS AND HOLDING TRUE CRIMINALS ACCOUNTABLE.
WE ARE MORE INTERESTED IN TALKING ABOUT GETTING PEOPLE OUT OF JAIL WITH NO BAIL, GETTING PEOPLE TO TRIALS REALLY QUICK SO WE DON'T HOLD THEM IN JAIL ANY LONGER.
AND YET WE HAVE THIS RECIDIVISM RATE AMONG THESE PEOPLE.
A LOT OF THESE INDIVIDUALS WE ARE TALKING ABOUT, ONCE THEY ARE FINALLY CAPTURED OR SHOT IN NEW MEXICO, IT IS RARE TO SEE A STORY THAT WE ARE LIKE, OH, MY GOSH, GENE GRANT IS THE GUY THAT SHOT SOMEBODY.
HE HAS NO CRIMINAL PAST.
IT SEEMS TO BE EVERY TIME WE FIND THIS OUT IT IS INDIVIDUALS WITH A LENGTHY CRIMINAL RECORD WITH A REVOLVING DOOR POLICY IN OUR STATE AND IN OUR COUNTRY NOW THAT SEEMS TO BE THE IDEA IS THAT THE RIGHTS OF THE CRIMINAL TRUMP THE RIGHTS OF THE VICTIM.
AND THE ANSWER SEEMS TO BE, WELL, LET'S GO CREATE MORE LAWS.
AND WE ALL KNOW THIS.
THE ONLY PEOPLE THAT LAWS ARE GOING TO BE FOLLOWED BY ARE PEOPLE WHO WISH TO FOLLOW THE LAWS.
AND THESE INDIVIDUALS ARE NOT LAW BIDING CITIZENS.
SO, I THINK BEFORE WE START SAYING, LET'S PUT ANOTHER LAW ON THE BOOKS, WE NEED TO LOOK BACK AT WHY THESE SITUATIONS ARE HAPPENING.
WHEN YOU HEAR THE SON OR THE DAUGHTER OR THE FAMILY MEMBER ARE SOMEONE WHO GETS AWAY WITH A VIOLENT CRIME AND DOESN'T EVEN HAVE TO GO TO COURT OVER IT, THAT IS A PROBLEM.
Gene: HEY DAN, WE ARE JUST GETTING WORD THAT REPUBLICAN LEADERSHIP IS CALLING FOR SOME TALKS ABOUT CRIME LEGISLATION MEANING NOT SUPPORTING IT BUT THEY WANT TO GET THEIR VOICE IN A SPECIAL SESSION TO TALK ABOUT THIS.
YOUR INITIAL GUT REACTION?
IS THIS WORTH A SPECIAL SESSION AND THE COST AND EVERYTHING?
Dan: LISTEN, I DON'T KNOW WHAT LAW.
TO ME THIS PROBLEM WITH GUN VIOLENCE, IT IS NOT JUST A NEW MEXICO PROBLEM.
LOOK WHAT IS HAPPENING IN CHICAGO AND NEW YORK AND IT IS A COUNTRY PROBLEM.
IN NEW MEXICO, I THINK THAT YOU'RE GOING TO HAVE A HARD TIME -- WE ARE A MAJORITY RULE STATE.
EVEN IF IN PRETTY DEMOCRAT AREAS, THESE FOLKS GET UP AND GO HUNTING AND DO THE THINGS THEY NEED TO DO, I THINK THERE IS GOING TO BE A SERIOUS CONVERSATION -- I HOPE THERE WILL BE A SERIOUS CONVERSATION ABOUT BEFORE WE PASS 25 NEW LAWS, WHY ARE WE NOT ENFORCING THE LAWS THAT ARE CURRENTLY ON THE BOOKS, MAYBE GIVING THE DA'S AND JUDGES MORE DISCRETION TO PUT FOLKS -- TO HANDLE THESE CASES OTHER THAN MAKING MANDATES THEY BE TURNED OUT AND WE AWAIT TRIAL AND HOPE THEY DON'T COMMIT ANOTHER CRIME.
Gene: JESSICA, I AM CURIOUS HOW THIS ALL RINGS IN YOUR PART OF THE WORLD IN SOUTHEAST NEW MEXICO.
WE ARE TALKING ABOUT SORT OF ALBUQUERQUE SPECIFIC HERE BUT HOW DOES IT HIT YOUR EAR.
Onsurez: WELL, FIRST OF ALL, LET ME GIVE MY CONDOLENCES TO THE FAMILY OF BENNY HARGROVE.
IT WAS SUCH A SAD SITUATION TO HEAR AND EVEN IF IT HAPPENS IN NORTHERN NEW MEXICO, WE ARE ALL AFFECTED BY IT THROUGHOUT THE ENTIRE STATE.
I WILL SAY THAT I AM ALONG SAME VEIN AS DAN ON THIS.
I THINK PEOPLE ARE GOING TO LOOK AT THIS, THE PROPOSED BILL AND THINK OF IT AS ANOTHER ATTACK ON THEIR RIGHT TO BEAR ARMS.
ESPECIALLY IN NEW MEXICO.
YOU DO HAVE A POPULATION WHERE WE ARE, YOU KNOW, WE OWN GUNS.
WE USE THEM FOR SPORT AND RECREATION AND FOR SELF PROTECTION.
AND I THINK THAT I AM WITH DAN WHEN WE SAY THAT IT IS A MOMENT NOW TO LOOK AT WHAT CAN WE DO, NOT ABOUT GUN POSSESSION OR SECURING OUR GUNS, BUT REALLY TAKE A LOOK AT WHAT ARE THE ROOT CAUSES OF VIOLENCE THAT JUST HAPPENED TO INVOLVE A GUN.
WE ARE IN A STATE WHERE THERE IS A SEVERE LACK OF MENTAL HEALTH RESOURCES THAT CAN CONTRIBUTE TO THIS TYPE OF THING.
WE ARE IN A STATE WHERE WE HAVE HUGE A POPULATION THAT IS BELOW THE POVERTY LINE, THAT ARE MORE VULNERABLE TO DOMESTIC VIOLENCE AT HOME AND WHERE KIDS ARE PLACED IN THE SYSTEM AND ARE IN A SYSTEM WHERE THEY CAN BE EXPOSED TO VIOLENCE AND ACT THAT OUT ON THEIR OWN, IN SCHOOLS AND IN THEIR OWN SOCIETIES AND THEIR OWN SOCIAL CIRCLES.
IN OUR VIEW IT IS BETTER TO PAUSE AND TAKE A LOOK AT NOT HOW DO WE PUNISH GUN OWNERS, WHO, FOR THE MOST PART, I THINK SOME MIGHT ARGUE, ARE RESPONSIBLE GUN OWNERS BUT HOW DO WE ADDRESS THE VIOLENCE OR ISSUES THAT LEAD TO THIS TYPE OF VIOLENCE.
Gene: DO WE HAVE -- IS THERE A PROBLEM WITH VIOLENT CULTURE IN ALBUQUERQUE?
WHAT I MEAN BY THAT IS ONE OF THE RELATIVES OF THE SPORTS BAR SHOOTING SAID AT A NEWS EVENT IT WOULD BE, QUOTE, BE JUSTICE EITHER WAY.
I MEAN THAT IS A HARD QUOTE RIGHT THERE.
YOU CAN'T BEGRUDGE HER THAT EMOTION BUT IS THAT A RESPONSE WE CAN LIVE WITH?
IT SOUNDS LIKE REVENGE IS IN THE AIR HERE.
Sophie: THAT IS A HARD QUOTE AND NOT KNOWING MORE ABOUT THE CONTEXT OF THAT SHOOTING MAKES IT DIFFICULT TO UNDERSTAND EXACTLY WHAT THE DYNAMIC IS.
I THINK ONE OF THE THINGS THAT IS TOUGH, GOING BACK TO WHAT JESSICA WAS BRINGING UP ABOUT THE NEED FOR SOCIAL SERVICES, THE NEED FOR BETTER INTERVENTION, AND DAN AS WELL, WITH PEOPLE WHO WE KNOW MAY BE ON THE PATH TO VIOLENT BEHAVIOR, IS THAT IT SEEMS THAT THE SAME LEGISLATORS, THE SAME ADVOCATES WHO ARE SAYING, NO, NO, NO THAT IS A SECOND AMENDMENT RIGHT AND WE CAN'T DO ANYTHING ABOUT THE GUNS, ARE ALSO OPPOSING INCREASED SPENDING FOR SOCIAL SERVICES FOR INTERVENTION AND FOR HEALTHCARE FOR INDIVIDUALS, FOR INSTANCE, WITH MENTAL HEALTH CONCERNS.
AND TO BE CLEAR, BECAUSE I THINK IT IS IMPORTANT TO SAY THIS EVERY TIME, WHEN WE TALK ABOUT INDIVIDUALS WITH MENTAL HEALTH CONCERNS, FOLKS WHO EXPERIENCE MENTAL HEALTH ISSUES ARE MORE LIKELY TO BE VICTIMS OF CRIME THAN TO PERPETUATE IT.
BUT, YOU KNOW, SO, HOW DO WE OVERCOME THIS, THAT IT IS THE SAME LOUD GROUP OF FOLKS WHO ARE SAYING NO TO THIS, AND THEN ON THE OTHER SIDE, NO TO THESE OTHER SOLUTIONS AS WELL.
WE JUST HAVE NOT GOTTEN PAST THAT AND I DON'T SEE WHEN WE WILL.
Gene: AS WE HAVE DISCUSSED, VIOLENCE IS PARTICULARLY ALARMING WHEN IT INVOLVES CHILDREN.
IT IS WHAT REALLY GETS US TO SIT UP AND PAY ATTENTION AND ALSO HAS LASTING NEGATIVE IMPACTS WITH KIDS WHO WITNESS IT.
A FEW YEARS BACK, FORMER NMIF PRODUCER SARAH GUSTAVUS SPOKE WITH LOCAL CHILD PSYCHIATRIST, DR. SCOTT CARROLL ABOUT UNDERSTANDING AND TREATING CHILDREN WHO ARE VICTIMIZED BY GUN VIOLENCE.
HERE IS THAT CONVERSATION.
Gustavus: DOCTOR, THANK YOU FOR JOINING US.
Dr. Carroll: THANK YOU FOR HAVING ME.
Gustavus: NEW MEXICO IS A VERY POOR STATE.
WE HAVE A LOT OF ISSUES RELATED TO POVERTY.
WHY IS VIOLENCE SOMETHING TO CONSIDER IN THE HEALTH AND WELLBEING OF YOUNG PEOPLE WHO MIGHT BE WITNESSING VIOLENCE, PARTICULARLY GUN VIOLENCE, GROWING UP HERE?
Dr. Carroll: WELL, YES, YOU KNOW, GUN VIOLENCE IS A VERY SERIOUS PROBLEM AND ONE HAS TO REMEMBER THAT WHEN IN THE CASE OF POVERTY CHILDREN ARE OFTEN EXPOSED TO A LOT OF THINGS THAT, SAY, SOMEONE IN A HIGHER SOCIOECONOMIC STATUS WOULDN'T BE.
SO, WHEN CHILDREN GROW UP IN POVERTY, THEY ARE OFTEN AROUND GUNS MORE AND THEY ACTUALLY SEE THEIR USE MORE IN VIOLENT WAYS OR THEY ARE MORE AWARE OF THAT.
EVEN IF THEY MAY NOT DIRECTLY WITNESS, THEY OFTEN KNOW ABOUT SOMEONE WHO HAS BEEN SHOT OR INJURED OR SITUATIONS LIKE THAT.
Gustavus: YOU WORK IN THE EMERGENCY DEPARTMENT AT UNM, WORKING WITH VICTIMS WHO HAVE BEEN SHOT INCLUDING CHILDREN.
WHAT ARE YOU SEEING RIGHT NOW?
Dr. Carroll: UNFORTUNATEL Y, WE SEE FAR TOO MANY.
THAT IS A VERY SAD THING.
BOTH SELF-INFLICTED, ACCIDENTAL AND THEN, OF COURSE, VICTIMS OF VIOLENCE DIRECTLY.
SO, IN TERMS OF THE CHILDREN, WE DO OUR BEST TO WORK WITH THEM, PUT THEM BACK TOGETHER.
IT CAN BE AN EXTENDED PROCESS BECAUSE THEY ARE OFTEN DEALING WITH SEVERE PHYSICAL INJURIES AS WELL AS THE PSYCHIATRIC INJURY AND WE OFTEN HAVE TO TREAT BOTH TOGETHER.
Gustavus: WHAT IS THE IMPACT OF WITNESSES VIOLENCE OR EXPERIENCING GUN VIOLENCE ON A CHILD AS THEY ARE GROWING UP?
Dr. Carroll: IT IS QUITE NEGATIVE.
WHAT WE KNOW IS THAT YOU DO NOT HAVE TO BE THE DIRECT VICTIM OF A VIOLENT ACT TO BE TRAUMATIZED BY IT.
THERE IS A LOT OF EVIDENCE THAT THE WITNESSES TO THE VIOLENT ACT ARE SOMETIMES TRAUMATIZED MORE SEVERELY THAN THE VICTIM THEMSELVES.
SO, IN SOME WAYS, WITNESSING PREDISPOSES YOU TO BEING PROFOUNDLY VICTIMIZED.
SO IN THAT SENSE, EVEN THOUGH THE WITNESS MAY NOT HAVE A PHYSICAL INJURY, THEY CAN HAVE SIGNIFICANT PSYCHIATRIC INJURY SO WE WORK ON THAT WITH CHILDREN IN TERMS OF TREATING IT.
THANKFULLY, THE RESEARCH HAS LED TO SOME GOOD TREATMENT METHODS SO OUR ABILITY TO TREAT HAS CERTAINLY IMPROVED EVEN IN JUST THE LAST FIVE YEARS.
Gustavus: CAN YOU WALK ME THROUGH THAT A LITTLE BIT?
HOW WOULD YOU TALK TO A CHILD WHO HAS WITNESSED GUN VIOLENCE.
Dr. Carroll: ONE OF THE FIRST THINGS IS YOU FIRST HAVE TO UNDERSTAND HOW THEY SEE IT.
BECAUSE CHILDREN ARE NOT ADULTS.
AND SO THAT ALSO IS ONE -- I'LL MAKE A LITTLE SIDE POINT ABOUT ESPECIALLY YOUNG CHILDREN OFTEN DON'T UNDERSTAND THE ROLE OF TV.
THEY DON'T UNDERSTAND THAT THE TV ISN'T SHOWING SOMETHING THAT IS HAPPENING IN THEIR NEIGHBORHOOD.
IT MAY BE ACROSS THE WORLD.
THEY CAN'T MAKE THAT DISTINCTION.
SO A LOT OF TIMES FOR CHILDREN, IF THEY SEE IT ON TV THEY ASSUME IT IS IN THEIR LOCAL ENVIRONMENT.
THAT IS WHY IT IS IMPORTANT NOT TO SORT -- YOU HAVE TO BE CAREFUL EXPOSING CHILDREN TO VARIOUS TYPES OF VIOLENCE ON THE TELEVISION BECAUSE THEY LITERALLY THINK IT IS IN THEIR IMMEDIATE ENVIRONMENT, ESPECIALLY PRESCHOOL CHILDREN.
Gustavus: WHAT ABOUT IF THEY ACTUALLY WITNESS GUN VIOLENCE?
Dr. Carroll: IF THEY ACTUALLY WITNESS, THEY CAN BE SUBSTANTIALLY TRAUMATIZED BY IT.
EVERYTHING FROM NIGHTMARES TO THEY'LL HAVE, LIKE, DISSOCIATIVE REOCCURRENCES OF THE MEMORY WHERE THEY LITERALLY WILL DISSOCIATE AND REEXPERIENCE THE TRAUMA.
AND WHAT IS MORE, AS WE KNOW IN HUMANS, THAT EXPERIENCE IS QUITE NATURAL.
AND VERY COMMON.
AND SO WHAT WILL HAPPEN IS, IT THEN GENERALIZES IN THE SENSE THAT ALL KINDS OF THINGS WILL TRIGGER IT.
THINGS THAT DON'T INVOLVE GUNS OR EVEN, I THINK OF OBVIOUS TRIGGERS, LIKE A CAR BACKFIRING.
SOME UNUSUAL THINGS WILL BECOME ASSOCIATED WITH THE TRAUMA AND SO THE FLASHBACK OF THE TRAUMA WILL OFTEN BE TRIGGERED BY ALL KINDS OF THINGS THAT YOU WOULDN'T THINK OF.
Gustavus: WHAT ARE SOME SIGNS PHYSICAL OR EMOTIONAL THAT A YOUNG PERSON IS STRUGGLING AFTER WITNESSING VIOLENCE?
Dr. Carroll: PROBABLY THE EASIEST THING TO SEE IS DIFFICULTY SLEEPING.
SO, ANY TIME LIKE HIGH ANXIETY DIRECTLY INHIBITS THE BRAIN'S ABILITY TO TRANSITION INTO A SLEEP STATE.
SO IT LITERALLY SORT OF FORCES YOU TO STAY AWAKE.
SO, THAT IS ONE OF THE FIRST THINGS YOU SEE IS DIFFICULTY SLEEPING.
WHAT WE ALSO KNOW IN CHILDREN, ESPECIALLY YOUNG CHILDREN, IS THAT THEY DON'T LOOK -- TRAUMA DOESN'T LOOK THE SAME AS IT DOES IN AN ADULT.
IF YOU READ ABOUT POSTTRAUMATIC STRESS DISORDER, THAT WAS DESIGNED OR DEVELOPED FROM COMBAT VETERANS, NOT CHILDREN.
SO CHILDREN PRESENT A BIT DIFFERENTLY.
YOU SEE THINGS LIKE DIFFICULTY SLEEPING OR INCREASED AGGRESSION SO INCREASED TEMPER TANTRUMS AND AGGRESSION ARE VERY COMMON.
CHILDREN ALSO TEND TO DISSOCIATE MUCH MORE THAN ADULTS WHERE THEY JUST KIND OF GO QUIET AND SORT OF STARE OFF.
IF YOU THINK ABOUT IT, CHILDREN, YOU KNOW, PART OF WHAT HAPPENS IN A TRAUMATIC EVENT, YOUR FLIGHT OR FIGHT SYSTEM IS TRIGGERED.
SO CHILDREN CAN'T DO EITHER VERY WELL SO INSTEAD THEY FREEZE AND THEY OFTEN FREEZE AND DISSOCIATE.
THEIR BEST HOPE IS TO NOT BE SEEN.
Gustavus: IS IT GOOD TO GET KIDS TO TALK ABOUT THIS?
Dr. Carroll: YES.
NOW HERE IS THE THING, THOUGH, IT HAS TO BE DONE IN THE RIGHT WAY.
IT TAKES SPECIALIZED TRAINING TO BE ABLE TO GET THE KID TO TALK IN THE RIGHT WAY SO THEY ACTUALLY GET BETTER RATHER THAN SORT OF RE-TRAUMATIZING THEM WITH THE DESCRIPTION.
THAT IS WHY A LOT OF SORT OF -- THERE WAS A FAD THERE FOR A WHILE WITH DEBRIEFING TYPE PROGRAMS WHERE WE WERE TRYING TO GET PEOPLE TO TALK IMMEDIATELY ABOUT THE TRAUMA.
AND WE ACTUALLY LEARNED THAT MADE PEOPLE WORSE.
SO, YOU KNOW, WE HAVE LEARNED A LOT OF THINGS ABOUT THE RIGHT WAY TO DO IT.
NOW, THERE WILL COME A TIME WHERE YOU WILL GET THEM TO TALK ABOUT IT AND THAT IS SORT OF THE END POINT OF TREATMENT THAT THEY CAN TALK ABOUT THE EXPERIENCE WITHOUT THE EMOTIONAL ATTACHMENT SO THEY DON'T GET SCARED, FRIGHTENED OR OVERWHELMED OR ANGRY OR SAD.
SO THAT IT IS A MEMORY BUT DOESN'T HAVE THE EMOTIONAL CONTENT IT PREVIOUSLY DID.
Gustavus: WHAT ARE SOME THINGS THAT ADULTS, PARENTS, TEACHERS OR OTHER CARING ADULTS CAN DO TO SUPPORT A YOUNG PERSON WHO HAS WITNESSED VIOLENCE, PARTICULARLY GUN VIOLENCE?
Dr. Carroll: ONE OF THE MOST IMPORTANT THINGS IS STRESSING THE CHILD'S SAFETY.
MAKING THE CHILD FEEL SAFE.
AND, YOU KNOW, BECAUSE CHILDREN NATURALLY TURN TO ADULTS FOR THEIR OWN SAFETY AND PROTECTION.
SO, THEY ARE PRIME TO BELIEVE PARENTS WHEN PARENTS TELL YOU, IT IS OKAY, YOU ARE NEVER GOING TO BE AROUND THAT OR I AM NOT GOING TO LET YOU, I AM GOING TO KEEP YOU SAFE.
BY PROTECTING THEM, THAT NATURAL SENSE OF PROTECTION IS ACTUALLY VERY THERAPEUTIC TO CHILDREN.
Gustavus: WHAT IF PARENTS DON'T DO THAT?
SOME PARENTS EXPERIENCE A LOT OF VIOLENCE GROWING UP AND MAY NOT REALIZE, MAY NOT BE IN A PLACE WHERE THEY, LIKE, I WANT TO CHANGE THIS, I WANT TO DO SOMETHING DIFFERENTLY.
YOU'RE NOT AVAILABLE FOR THAT.
Dr. Carroll: A LOT OF TIMES WE WORK WITH PARENTS SO EVEN CHILDREN, THEY ARE NOT INDEPENDENT.
THEY ARE VERY MUCH PARTS OF THEIR FAMILIES.
SO A LOT OF TIMES THE BEST THING YOU CAN DO FOR A CHILD IS TO ACTUALLY WORK WITH THE PARENTS AND FAMILY AND TO HELP THEM ENGAGE THE CHILD IN THE RIGHT WAY.
BECAUSE IF YOU THINK ABOUT IT, I MIGHT SEE A CHILD MAYBE ONCE A MONTH, FOR MEDICATION, THE THERAPIST MIGHT SEE A CHILD EVERY WEEK, BUT THE PARENTS ARE THERE EVERYDAY, ALL DAY LONG.
SO, IF I CAN TEACH THE PARENT, EVEN SOME VERY BASIC THINGS ABOUT HOW TO BE THERAPEUTIC, IT CAN REALLY MAKE A HUGE DIFFERENCE FOR THE CHILD.
A LOT OF TIMES WE DON'T TALK ABOUT THAT A LOT BUT WHAT WE REALLY ARE DOING IS TEACHING THE PARENT TO PARENT IN SUCH A WAY THAT IT IS THERAPEUTIC FOR THE CHILD.
Gustavus: YOU SEE SOME REALLY DIFFICULT THINGS AS A PROVIDER.
IT SOUNDS INCREDIBLY DIFFICULT.
HOW HAS THIS IMPACTED YOU AND YOUR THOUGHTS ON GUN OWNERSHIP IN THE U.S.
RIGHT NOW?
Dr. Carroll: MY PERSONAL FEELING IS THAT I BELIEVE IN RESPONSIBLE GUN OWNERSHIP.
I AM FROM LOUISIANA ORIGINALLY.
I GREW UP HUNTING AND FISHING AND THEN I WAS IN THE MILITARY BEFORE I WAS A PSYCHIATRIST.
SO, I AM VERY COMFORTABLE WITH GUNS.
HOWEVER I HAVE YOUNG CHILDREN SO I DON'T -- WHILE I WILL GO TO A RANGE AND SHOOT ON OCCASION, I DON'T HAVE A GUN IN MY HOUSE BECAUSE I WOULD BE TERRIFIED OF THE THOUGHT OF MY DAUGHTER FINDING A GUN.
I AM VERY FOCUSED ON GUNS ARE A RESPONSIBILITY.
AND THAT THEY NEED TO BE USED SAFELY AND CORRECTLY.
IT IS A GREAT RESPONSIBILITY.
AND, SO, THAT IS THE STANCE I TAKE WITH PARENTS.
OF COURSE, IF I AM WORKING WITH A CHILD WHO IS SUICIDAL OR A TEENAGER WHO IS SUICIDAL, WE TALK ABOUT PROPERLY SECURING GUNS.
I DON'T TELL THEM YOU SHOULDN'T OWN A GUN.
WHAT I AM SAYING IS YOU NEED TO BE RESPONSIBLE ABOUT THIS.
WE GO OVER SORT OF SECURITY PROCEDURES, YOU KNOW, THINGS LIKE THAT.
TO KEEP CHILDREN SAFE.
Gustavus: YOUNG PEOPLE CAN BE VERY IMPULSIVE.
Dr. Carroll: ABSOLUTELY.
AND THAT IS PROBABLY ONE OF THE THINGS TO SAY ABOUT TEENAGERS, BIG DIFFERENCE BETWEEN ADULTS AND TEENAGERS, IS THAT BECAUSE THE FRONTAL LOBES ARE NOT FULLY DEVELOPED, THEY MAKE VERY IMPULSIVE AND RASH DECISIONS, ESPECIALLY WHEN THEY ARE STRESSED.
AND SO A TEENAGER CAN GO FROM JUST BEING KIND OF ANGRY TO ATTEMPTING TO TAKE THEIR LIFE IN JUST A MATTER OF SECONDS IF THEY SEE THE OPPORTUNITY.
WHAT WE KNOW IN TEENAGERS IS, THAT OPPORTUNITY IS A BIG TRIGGER TO THEM ACTING.
SO, IF THERE IS NO IMMEDIATE OPPORTUNITY, THE INTERESTING THING IS WHILE THE DESIRE TO KILL THEMSELVES CAN COME ON VERY RAPIDLY, IT CAN DISAPPEAR JUST AS RAPIDLY TOO.
SO IF THEY CAN'T ACCESS A MEANS TO ACT ON THE THOUGHT, IN A MATTER OF MINUTES, IT CAN ACTUALLY PASS.
SO THAT IS WHY THAT CONTROLLING ACCESS TO LETHAL THINGS, EVERYTHING FROM MEDICATION BEING LOCKED UP TO GUNS AND SO FORTH, YOU KNOW, THOSE ARE ALL KEY TO KEEPING A TEENAGER SAFE EVEN IF THEY DID HAVE A SUICIDAL THOUGHT.
Gustavus: DO YOU FIND YOUNG PEOPLE, CHILDREN OR TEENAGERS WHO HAVE WITNESSED VIOLENCE, DOES THAT LEAD TO THOUGHTS OF SUICIDE?
Dr. Carroll: ABSOLUTELY.
THE WAY YOU THINK ABOUT IT IS YOU HAVE A TRAUMATIC EVENT WHICH THEN LEADS TO ESSENTIALLY SOME VERSION OF POSTTRAUMATIC STRESS DISORDER.
OVER TIME WHAT HAPPENS, WHILE THE POSTTRAUMATIC SYMPTOMS MAY SORT OF DIFFUSE OUT OR CALM DOWN, THEY OFTEN LEAD TO HIGH LEVELS OF RESIDUAL ANXIETY AND THAT RESIDUAL ANXIETY THEN CAUSES DEPRESSION.
WHAT YOU FIND IS EVENTUALLY EVEN THOUGH THE PTSD IS SOMEWHAT BETTER IF IT IS NOT TREATED, THEY ARE MUCH MORE DEPRESSED.
SO IF YOU THINK ABOUT IT, IT IS SORT OF LIKE I THINK OF ANXIETY LIKE RED LINING YOUR ENGINE.
AFTER A CERTAIN POINT, YOU ARE JUST RED LINING, RED LINING, RED LINING AND EVENTUALLY THE GOVERNOR HAS TO KICK IN AND SHUT THE ENGINE DOWN.
THAT IS THE DEPRESSION.
SO IF YOU ARE ANXIOUS FOR TOO LONG, EVENTUALLY THE DEPRESSION KICKS IN TO SORT OF LIKE CALM YOUR SYSTEM DOWN, SHUT IT DOWN.
IN THAT STATE OF DEPRESSION IS WHEN YOU SEE THE SUICIDAL THOUGHTS.
Gustavus: ANY POLICY OR STRUCTURAL CHANGES THAT YOU THINK WOULD HELP ADDRESS THESE ISSUES WE HAVE JUST BEEN TALKING ABOUT WITH YOUNG PEOPLE AND GUN VIOLENCE?
Dr. Carroll: I THINK IT IS VERY IMPORTANT TO STRESS AT A SOCIETAL LEVEL IN TERMS OF RESPONSIBLE GUN OWNERSHIP IN TERMS OF PROPERLY SECURING WEAPONS.
AND ALSO TRAINING.
IF YOU OWN A GUN YOU NEED TO BE PROPERLY TRAINED.
IN MANY WAYS, THERE IS A LOT OF RESEARCH THAT SHOWS THIS.
WHEN YOU OWN A GUN, THE PERSON MOST AT RISK IS YOU.
THAT YOU'LL ACCIDENTALLY HARM YOURSELF OR WHILE CLEANING YOUR GUN IT WILL MISFIRE.
SO THERE IS A LOT OF THINGS ABOUT BEING ABLE TO HANDLE A GUN SAFELY.
THERE IS A LOT TO IT.
IT ALSO NEEDS TO BE DONE ON A REGULAR BASIS.
IF YOU DON'T HANDLE GUNS DAILY OR REGULARLY, YOU GET RUSTY AND THEN YOU'RE DANGEROUS.
I COMPARE IT TO FLYING AN AIRPLANE.
WE JOKE ABOUT HOW DOCTORS MAKE TERRIBLE PILOTS, BECAUSE WE DON'T FLY ENOUGH.
THAT IS THE PROBLEM.
SO, WE ARE DANGEROUS BECAUSE WE DON'T FLY ENOUGH WHERE SOMEBODY WHO FLIES EVERYDAY IS MUCH SAFER.
IT IS THE SAME THING WITH GUNS.
Gustavus: THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR SHEDDING LIGHT ON ISSUES YOUNG PEOPLE ARE DEALING WITH AND THESE ARE INTERESTING THINGS FOR US TO THINK ABOUT.
Dr. Carroll: THANK YOU.
Gene: WE OFTEN HAVE SPOKEN OF THE RURAL/URBAN DIVIDE ON THIS SHOW.
IT HAS BEEN MANIFESTING ITSELF FOR YEARS NOW.
THE LATEST CENSUS DATA BEARS IT OUT.
SHOWING 20 OF NEW MEXICO'S 33 COUNTIES LOSING POPULATION.
NOW, WHILE THE STATE OVERALL ISN'T GAINING MANY RESIDENTS MOST OF THE COUNTIES THAT SHOW THE BIGGEST GAINS ARE HOME TO NEW MEXICO'S LARGEST CITIES.
WHEN IT COMES TO CENSUS, FEWER PEOPLE MEANS LESS MONEY, BUT BEYOND THAT, DAN, WHAT IS THE UPSHOT HERE?
WHAT ARE WE BEING TOLD HERE ABOUT NEW MEXICO?
Dan: I THINK DEFINITELY THAT THERE IS AN INFLUX, I THINK, IF YOU LOOK AT DATA, THERE IS AN INFLUX OF PEOPLE FROM OUT OF THIS STATE MOVING INTO THE STATE FROM BIGGER STATES, RIGHT?
PEOPLE LEAVING CALIFORNIA, LEAVING NEW YORK AND THEY CONSIDER ALBUQUERQUE TO BE A MUCH SMALLER TOWN AND WILLING TO SETTLE IN ALBUQUERQUE.
WHERE IN THE PAST YOU WOULD FIND SOMEWHAT OF A COMBINATION OF PEOPLE NOT ONLY MOVING TO PLACES LIKE ALBUQUERQUE BUT TOWNS LIKE ROSWELL AND CARLSBAD BECAUSE THEY WANT THAT COMMUNITY.
YOU HAVE GOT TO REMEMBER, TOO, WHEN YOU LOOK AT PERCENTAGES, WHEN YOU GO TO PLACES LIKE CATRON COUNTY, IF THEY LOSE ONE PERSON IT IS A HUGE SWING IN THE DEMOGRAPHIC MAKEUP.
ONE THING THAT IS INTERESTING TO SEE IS THAT THE COUNTIES THAT ARE LOSING FOLKS ARE HEAVILY REPUBLICAN COUNTIES IN NEW MEXICO.
IT IS GOING TO HAVE A HUGE OUTCOME IN LEGISLATIVE RACES.
Gene: CAN I ASK YOU TO HOLD THAT?
I HAVE SOMETHING COMING UP FOR YOU ON THAT VERY SUBJECT IN A LITTLE BIT.
LET ME SWING TO JESS ON THAT.
OBVIOUSLY, YOU'RE RIGHT IN THE MIDDLE OF IT, JESSICA.
ON THE GROUND WHAT DOES THIS MEAN AS A FUNDAMENTAL CHANGE TO NEW MEXICO IN THOSE COUNTIES THAT POPULATION IS LOSING.
Onsurez: YOU KNOW WHAT, IT IS KIND OF INTERESTING THAT DAN SAID THAT.
WE ARE ACTUALLY GROWING IN SOUTHEAST NEW MEXICO.
EDDY COUNTY HAS HAD SOME OF THE HIGHEST RETURNS FOR THE CENSUS IN GROWTH.
WE CAN ATTRIBUTE THAT TO MANY THINGS BUT MOST PEOPLE ATTRIBUTE IT TO THE OIL AND GAS INDUSTRY WHICH IS BASED IN THIS REGION.
WHICH IS GREAT FOR US.
BUT YOU'RE ALSO TALKING ABOUT THAT SHIFT IN POLITICS.
WE ARE LOOKING AT RURAL COUNTIES WHICH ARE LARGELY CONSERVATIVE WHO ALREADY FEEL DISCONNECTED FROM WHAT IS HAPPENING IN THE CENTER OF THE STATE AND IN URBAN POPULATIONS.
SO, YOU TALK ABOUT THAT URBAN/RURAL DIVIDE, THE CONSEQUENCE MIGHT BE THAT YOU SEE THAT WIDEN A BIT MORE AND A BIT MORE OF THAT LACK OF CIVILITY AND LACK OF UNDERSTANDING WHEN WE ALL TRY TO COME TOGETHER ON ISSUES THAT AFFECT THE ENTIRE STATE.
Gene: SOPHIE, THE POWER BALANCE IN A LOT OF CITIES AROUND THE COUNTRY SHIFTING URBAN, THAT IS FOR SURE.
WHAT ARE THE RAMIFICATIONS FOR NEW MEXICO?
I MEAN, IT IS ALREADY SOMEWHAT ALBUQUERQUE CENTRIC AS IT IS.
YOU KNOW WHAT I MEAN BY THAT?
DOES THIS EXAGGERATE THAT PROBLEM.
Sophie: I DO.
AND I THINK THAT IT DOES AND ONE OF THE CHALLENGES THAT IT IS GOING TO CREATE FOR OUR RURAL COMMUNITIES IS, YOU KNOW, POTENTIALLY LESS OF A CUSTOMER BASE FOR THEIR BUSINESSES, LESS OPPORTUNITY TO ATTRACT DOCTORS AND PHARMACISTS AND LAWYERS.
I WORKED EARLIER A COUPLE YEARS AGO ON A PROJECT TRYING TO ADDRESS THE LAWYER SHORTAGE IN RURAL PARTS OF THE STATE.
THIS DOES NOT HELP.
I THINK ONE OF THE REAL CONCERNS IS THERE WILL BE A CONTRACTION OF THE CENTRAL SERVICES FOR PARTS OF THE STATE THAT ARE SEEING SHRINKING POPULATIONS.
IT IS ALREADY A STRUGGLE TO KEEP HOSPITALS OPEN IN MANY PARTS OF THE STATE.
SO PEOPLE DO WHAT THEY DO AND THE MOVE TO CITIES IS NOT SOMETHING THAT, ALTHOUGH WE SOMETIMES TALK ABOUT LIKE HOW CAN WE REVERSE THAT, ET CETERA, INDIVIDUALS ARE GOING TO ACT IN THEIR OWN SELF INTERESTS, WHAT IS BEST, WE HOPE AT LEAST, THE ECONOMISTS TELL US, THEY WILL ACT IN THE WAY BEST FOR THEM TO THE EXTENT THE PERCEPTION IS YOU'RE GOING TO GET SOMETHING MORE PERHAPS IN THE URBAN AREAS.
THAT IS GOING TO CONTINUE TO BE A CHALLENGE FOR COMMUNITIES IN THE REST OF THE STATE.
Gene: DAN, YOU STARTED TO TOUCH ON THIS IN A ROUND ABOUT WAY.
MANY OF US ARE WORKING FROM HOME FOR MONTHS AND THE CONCEPT GOING TO WORK IS LESS RELIANT ON LOCATION NOW.
YOU JUST MENTIONED, OF COURSE, FOLKS ARE MOVING INTO CERTAIN PARTS OF THE STATE TO BE ABLE TO WORK FROM AFAR.
THAT WOULD SEEM TO BE A SELLING POINT FOR SMALLER CITIES AND TOWNS.
WHAT IS KEEPING THEM FROM LEVERAGING THIS MORE THAN WHAT THEY ARE?
Dan: THAT IS WHY I THINK ALBUQUERQUE IS SEEING A BIGGER SET OF GROWTH THAN THE REST OF RURAL NEW MEXICO.
IF YOU'RE LEAVING LOS ANGELES, ALBUQUERQUE IS A PRETTY RURAL CITY TO MOVE TO.
CARLSBAD AND ROSWELL ARE WAY OUT IN THE HINDER LANDS, RIGHT?
I MEAN, THAT IS, YOU KNOW, PEOPLE STILL WANT TO GET TO STARBUCKS AND GET THEIR FLIGHT OPTIONS.
BUT THE BIGGER QUESTION THAT IS GOING TO ARISE IN NEW MEXICO, I THINK, IN THE NEXT FEW YEARS, IS THE WATER DEBACLE.
WE ARE IN A DROUGHT OF EPIC PROPORTION AND AS ALBUQUERQUE GROWS, THERE IS ONLY SO MUCH WATER THAT CAN GO AROUND AND THERE IS PLACES LIKE SOUTHEASTERN NEW MEXICO WHERE YOU LOOK AND IN THAT WHOLE PECOS RIVER VALLEY, WHERE THEY HAVE DONE A GREAT JOB MANAGING WATER OVER THE LAST 20, 30, 40 YEARS, AND THERE IS GOING TO BE A MOVE, YOU WATCH, THAT SAYS, HEY LISTEN, DO WE NEED TO BE AS MUCH OF A FARMING, AGRICULTURE STATE AND GROW ALFALFA AND GROW PECANS OR SHOULD WE BE SHIPPING THAT WATER TO ALBUQUERQUE TO GIVE PEOPLE DRINK THAT ARE MOVING HERE?
I THINK THAT FIGHT IS COMING, ESPECIALLY WITH THE RECENT DECISIONS IN THE LAST YEAR OR SO WITH THE SUPREME COURT AND OUR FIGHT WITH TEXAS.
THINGS ARE NOT BODING WELL FOR RURAL NEW MEXICO WHEN IT COMES TO WATER AND SUSTAINING RANCHING AND THE AGRICULTURE INDUSTRY AND TO SOME EXTENT THE OIL AND GAS INDUSTRY.
IT IS UNDER CONSTANT FIRE IN THIS STATE NOT ONLY LEGISLATIVELY, BUT YOU START LOOKING AT THESE WATER ISSUES, YOU START TELLING THOSE GUYS THEY CAN'T USE THE WATER, THEY NEED TO DRILL WELLS, IT IS THE MORE BENEFICIAL USE, IT IS GOING TO BE SHIPPING IN A PIPELINE TO ALBUQUERQUE AND I THINK THAT FIGHT IS COMING SOONER RATHER THAN LATER.
Gene: HEY, JESSICA, A BIG ONE FOR YOU.
IS IT AT ALL LIKELY THAT THE SECOND CONGRESSIONAL DISTRICT WILL BE REDRAWN TO A DEMOCRATIC DISTRICT OR DOES IT SEEM MORE LIKELY IT WILL BECOME MORE COMPETITIVE, SOMETHING MORE SIMILAR TO A SWING DISTRICT?
THOSE ARE INTERESTING CHOICES THERE.
Onsurez: WE ARE LOOKING AND WE CERTAINLY HOPE THAT THERE WILL BE SOME REDRAWING OF THE DISTRICTS HERE.
WE DON'T THINK THAT THERE WILL BE A HUGE SHIFT TO DEMOCRATIC BUT WE DO HOPE THAT IT MIGHT BE ONE OF THOSE COMPETITIVE SWING DISTRICTS.
SO, THE POSSIBILITIES, I THINK, FOR NEW MEXICO AND SOUTHERN NEW MEXICO EXPLICITLY IN THIS REDISTRICTING PROCESS ARE GREAT.
WE ARE LOOKING FORWARD TO SEEING WHAT THE RECOMMENDATIONS ARE AT A STATE LEVEL AND WHAT HAPPENS WITH NEW MEXICO AS A WHOLE.
Dan: I AM REMINDED OF DURING THE LAST -- WHEN I WAS IN THE LEGISLATURE AND DISTRICTING WHEN YOUR FORMER BOSS WAS IN AND I WAS ON THE REDISTRICTING COMMITTEE AND I WOULD GET THESE UNSOLICITED PHONE CALLS, NEVER TALKED TO HIM SO MUCH IN MY LIFE, FROM CONGRESSMAN TOM UDALL TELLING ME WHAT A GREAT SEAT HEATHER WILSON HAD, THAT NOTHING SHOULD BE DONE TO CHANGE HER SEAT, THAT SHE WAS A GREAT ASSET.
WHEN YOU START TALKING ABOUT MAKING SEATS MORE COMPETITIVE YOU HAVE TO REMEMBER WHEN ONE BECOMES MORE COMPETITIVE, ANOTHER ONE BECOMES LESS COMPETITIVE.
AND THE FOLKS THAT ARE HOLDING THOSE OTHER SEATS ARE NOT GOING TO BE AS ECSTATIC ABOUT FINDING A WAY TO MAKE THEM LESS COMPETITIVE AND THINK ABOUT IT THIS WAY.
RIGHT NOW, I BELIEVE, ONE OF, IF NOT THE MOST SENIOR CONGRESS PERSON IN NEW MEXICO NOW IS YVETTE HARRELL, RIGHT?
I MEAN, YOU THINK OF PEOPLE WHO HAVE LEFT AND WHAT HAS BEEN GOING ON.
Gene: DAN, REAL QUICK.
DO REPUBLICANS NEED TO CHANGE THEIR MESSAGE IN THE FACE OF ALL THIS?
IN THE SOUTHERN PART OF THE STATE.
Dan: WE HAVE NO MESSAGE.
OUR MESSAGE LEFT ABOUT EIGHT YEARS AGO AND EVERYBODY ELSE IS THE BOOGIE MAN IS NOT A MESSAGE THAT BRINGS PEOPLE TOGETHER AND INVITES THEM TO JOIN YOUR CAUSE.
WE SAW THAT IN THE LAST PRESIDENTIAL ELECTION AND IT IS GOING TO CONTINUE TO RAIN DOWN ON US IN NEW MEXICO AND ACROSS THE COUNTRY IF WE DON'T FIGURE OUT A WAY TO REBUILD THIS PARTY INSTEAD OF SPENDING ALL OUR TIME TELLING EVERYBODY WHO IS WRONG.
WE ARE GOING TO LEAVE THAT UP TO YOU AND MATT.
Gene: SOPHIE, YOU HAVE 30 SECONDS ON THIS.
Sophie: NOT GOING TO DISAGREE WITH DAN ON THAT ONE.
WHAT DID YOU WANT TO ASK?
Gene: NO, NO, JUST CURIOUS YOU HAD A REACTION AND YOU DID.
WE ARE OUT OF TIME THIS WEEK.
THANKS TO YOU ALL FOR DIGGING IN ON THE TOPICS THIS WEEK.
I AM BACK IN A MOMENT WITH A FEW FINAL THOUGHTS.
EARLIER THIS WEEK, I HAD THE OPPORTUNITY TO TAG ALONG WITH U.S. SECRETARY OF ENERGY JENNIFER GRANHOLM AND SENIOR SENATOR MARTIN HEINRICH AS THEY TOURED ALBUQUERQUE BUSINESSES ACTIVE IN THE NEXT GENERATION OF PRODUCING ENERGY AND POWER.
PARTICULARLY HYDROGEN USE IN FUEL CELLS AND NUCLEAR.
DIDN'T TAKE LONG TO GRASP WHY THE ENERGY SECRETARY MADE THE TRIP BUT LET ME SAY THIS FIRST, WE HAVE HAD OUR SHARE OF REPORTING AND POLITICAL POSTURING ABOUT OUR CITY BEING THE NEXT BIG TECH THING AND AN ARRAY OF ENDEAVORS OVER THE LAST 20 YEARS AND TOO MANY WITHOUT RESULT.
THAT LACK OF SUCCESS HAS INDUCED A FAIR AMOUNT OF CYNICISM BUT TO ME NEXT GEN POWER PRODUCTION FEELS DIFFERENT.
THE MOMENTUM I WITNESSED THIS WEEK WAS SEEDED 20 YEARS AGO BY SENATORS DOMENICI, BINGAMAN AND MY OLD BOSS, HEATHER WILSON, AND TIMING IN LIFE IS EVERYTHING AND THE RECENTLY PASSED INFRASTRUCTURE INVESTMENT AND JOBS ACT IS A POLICY DECISION THAT HAS ALBUQUERQUE AND POTENTIALLY NEW MEXICO WRITTEN ALL OVER IT.
THANKS AGAIN FOR JOINING US AND STAYING INFORMED AND ENGAGED.
SEE YOU AGAIN NEXT WEEK IN FOCUS.
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