>>> HIS MUSIC IS A REMINDER OF HOW IMPORTANT IT IS TO NOT FALL INTO OLD HABITS AND TO KEEP OUR LIVES FRESH.

THAT SUBJECT IS TACKLED IN A NEW BOOK, LOOKING AT WHY WE BECOME COMPLACENT AND HOW TO RESET OUR THINKING.

CASS SUNSTEIN DISCUSSES THE KEYS TO LIVING A HAPPIER LIFE.

>> CASS, THANK YOU FOR JOINING US.

>> GREAT PLEASURE TO BE HERE.

>> IN YOUR LATEST BOOK WRITTEN WITH A NEUROSCIENTIST, IT'S CALLED "LOOK AGAIN."

IT TALKS ABOUT THE ROLE -- YOU USE A BIG WORD.

HABITUATION IN OUR LIFE.

TELL ME WHAT YOU MEAN BY THAT.

>> HA >> IT MEANS THE MORE WE DO SOMETHING, THE LESS AFFECTED WE ARE BY IT.

IF YOU GO SWIMMING AND IT'S COLD, THE FIRST MINUTE IS TERRIBLE, BUT FIVE MINUTES IN YOU THINK IT'S FINE.

A HOT BATH, THE SAME THING.

YOU ENTER A ROOM WHERE THERE'S NOT A GOOD ODOR, PEOPLE ARE SMOKING MAYBE.

AFTER MAYBE 20 MINUTES, MOST PEOPLE AREN'T GOING TO NOTICE IT.

DIMINISHING SENSE OF ITTY TO WHA -- SENSITIVITY TO WHAT WE ARE EXPOSED TO.

>> THAT SEEMS LIKE A GOOD THING.

>> IF YOU ARE SURROUNDED BY SOMETHING UNPLEASANT, IF YOUR BOSS IS MEAN, IF YOUR NEIGHBORHOOD IS TERRIBLE, WE WON'T NOTICE IT.

WE GET USED TO THINGS.

THAT'S A BLESSING.

WHAT'S NOT SO GOOD IS IF THERE'S SOMETHING FANTASTIC IN OUR LIFE -- LET'S SAY WE HAVE CHILDREN.

THEY ARE INCREDIBLE.

MAYBE SOMETIMES A LITTLE TROUBLE.

IT MAY BE THAT OUR JOB IS PAYING US WHAT WE NEED AND WE THOUGHT TEN YEARS AGO WE COULD HAVE THIS JOB, WE THINK IT'S A DREAM.

AFTER A WHILE, WE THINK, I HAVE TO GO TO WORK.

THINGS GET A LITTLE GRAY.

THAT'S HOW THE HUMAN MIND WORKS THAT USED TO BE FULL OF COLOR.

IT'S IMPORTANT FOR US TO BE ABLE TO SEE THINGS WITH BRIGHTNESS AND LIGHT.

THERE ARE WAYS TO GET THINGS TO RE-SPARKLE.

MID-LIFE CRISIS IS A PRODUCT OF GRAYNESS FOR PEOPLE WHOSE LIVES ARE AMAZING.

>> I HAVE THOUGHT YOU COULD DIVIDE PEOPLE WHO ARE REALLY HAPPY VERSUS THOSE WHO ARE UNHAPPY OR BORED, NOT BY SO MUCH AS WHAT GOOD THINGS OR BAD THINGS HAVE HAPPENED TO THEM, BUT WHETHER THEY FEEL GRATITUDE EVERY MORNING, EVEN IF BAD THINGS HAVE HAPPENED, THEY SAY, I'M A LUCKY CAMPER.

I'M LIVING HERE.

HOW DO YOU INJECT GRATITUDE -- WHICH IS A THEME IN THIS BOOK -- INTO OUR LIVES SO WE, AS YOU PUT IT, LOOK AGAIN AND REVITALIZE OURSELVES?

>> OKAY.

WORKING WITH A NEUROSCIENTIST TAUGHT ME TO UNDERSTAND WHY GRATITUDE WORKS.

I HADN'T GOTTEN THAT BEFORE.

THE REASON IS THAT WITH GRATITUDE, YOU ARE DISTANCING YOURSELF FROM SOMETHING THAT YOU WOULD OTHERWISE -- YOU MIGHT DISTANCE YOURSELF WITH GRATITUDE FROM, LET'S SAY, YOU HAVE FRIENDS WHO ARE AMAZING, AND ORDINARILY IN THE DAY, YOU ARE ENJOYING YOUR FRIENDS.

YOU ARE NOT THINKING HOW AMAZING THEY ARE.

WHEN YOU ARE GRATEFUL, YOU ARE HABITUATING, CREATING THIS IN YOUR HEAD.

YOU SEE THEM FROM A DISTANCE AS SOMEONE -- HOW DID I GET SO LUCKY TO HAVE FRIENDS LIKE THAT?

IF YOU ARE GRATEFUL YOU ARE A SPOUSE WHO CAN STAND YOU AND IS FUN AND AMAZING, IF YOU HAVE GRATITUDE, YOU ARE NOT JUST SAYING THIS IS THE PERSON I LIVE WITH, YOU ARE SAYING, HOW DID I GET SO LUCKY AS TO HAVE THAT.

>> YOU WORK WITH THE NEUROSCIENTIST.

YOU OFTEN DO YOUR BOOKS WITH SOMEBODY ELSE.

WHY DID YOU PICK A NEUROSCIENTIST.

WHAT DID YOU LEARN ABOUT THE SCIENCE OF OUR BRAIN THAT HELPED INFORM THIS BOOK?

>> OKAY.

THERE'S 1,000 BOOKS ON HUMAN BEHAVIOR AND THE MIND.

THIS IS A VERY KIND OF INTRIGUING ASPECT OF CURRENT CULTURE.

A REAL NEUROSCIENTIST KNOWS THINGS THAT PEOPLE, LIKE ME, WHO AREN'T NEUROSCIENTISTS, DON'T KNOW.

ONE THING SHE ELICITED IS THAT IF PEOPLE ARE TELLING THINGS THAT AREN'T TRUE, THEY WILL GET USED TO THAT AND ACCOMMODATE TO THAT, IF THEY ARE INCENTIVIZED TO LIE.

WHAT HAPPENS IN THE BRAIN IS I INTERESTING.

THERE'S A PART OF THE BRAIN THAT IS BASICALLY THE NON-TECHNICAL TERM ON FIRE.

PEOPLE HATE THEIR OWN LYING.

AS THEY LIE MORE AND MORE AND MORE, IT QUIETS DOWN UNTIL IN THE COURSE OF A DAY, IT ISN'T NOTICING THEY ARE LYING.

THAT GIVES YOU A VIVID PICTURE ABOUT HOW THE BRAIN HAD DOES TH.

IT ALSO IS LITERALLY TRUE THAT IF THERE ARE COLORS ALL AROUND AND YOU STARE AT THE MIDDLE OF AN IMAGE, IT WILL TURN GRAY.

NEUROSCIENCE CAN GIVE YOU EXAMPLES LIKE THAT.

>> EXPLAIN TO ME THE TYPE OF STUDIES YOU DO.

THIS BOOK IS FILLED WITH SOMEBODY DID THIS STUDY.

I THOUGHT THOSE WERE KIND OF ANECDOTAL.

IN YOUR BOOK, I REALIZE IT'S RIGOROUS STUDIES ON HOW THIS WORKS.

>> OKAY.

THERE ARE ANECDOTES AND THERE ARE ANECDOTAL STUDIES AND THERE ARE RIGOROUS STUDIES WHERE YOU REALLY GET DATA AND YOU RANDOMIZE.

HERE IS SOMETHING THAT IS A STUDY, WHICH IS TRYING TO FIGURE OUT HOW MUCH PEOPLE LIKE THEIR VACATIONS AND WHEN DO THEY LIKE THEM THE MOST.

THIS WAS DONE BY THE CO-AUTHOR OF THE BOOK.

SHE FOUND 43 HOURS INTO A VACATION TENDS TO BE THE TIME WHEN PEOPLE ARE MOST UPBEAT ABOUT THE VACATION.

THE FIRST MAYBE 24 HOURS, THEY ARE LIKING IT.

BUT THEY ARE FIGURING IT OUT.

AFTER THE 43 HOURS, THEY TEND TO LIKE IT A LOT, BUT NOT AS MUCH AS RIGHT THEN.

IF YOU ASK PEOPLE WHAT THEY LIKE BEST ABOUT A VACATION, THIS IS A SCIENTIFIC STUDY THAT DOESN'T INVOLVE THE BRAIN, PEOPLE KEEP SAYING THE FIRST, THE FIRST TIME I SAW THE BEACH, FIRST TIME I SAW THE HOTEL, FIRST TIME I WENT IN THE WATER.

THAT'S A STRONG CLUE ABOUT THE POWER OF THIS TO GET US TO SMILE AND JUMP, MAYBE SING, AND THE POWER OF HABITUATION TO GET US TO START TO LIKE THINGS A LITTLE BIT LESS.

>> IN THIS CASE, WE COULD SAY, LET'S TAKE A LOT MORE VACATIONS BUT SHORTER ONES.

LET'S TAKE SOMETHING DIFFERENT.

YOU AND I BOTH HAVE BEEN MARRIED FOR A LONG TIME TO WONDERFUL WOMEN.

HOW DO YOU PREVENT THAT SORT OF 43 HOURS AFTER THE MARRIAGE I'M NO LONGER AS INTERESTED?

>> I THINK FOR BOTH OF US, WE ARE SO LUCKY THAT WE DON'T NEED TO THINK ABOUT HOW TO MAKE THINGS EVEN BETTER, BECAUSE THEY ARE PERFECT AND AMAZING NOW.

LET'S SAY FOR THE MEDIAN PERSON, WHO IS VERY LUCKY, BUT WHO HAS BEEN MARRIED FOR A LONG TIME, THERE'S A THERAPIST WHO IS REALLY GREAT ON THIS, AND SHE SAYS, FIRE NEEDS AIR.

THAT'S A BRILLIANT PHRASE, FIRE NEEDS AIR.

FOR COUPLES TO SPEND SOME TIME APART, NOT A LONG TIME, BUT MAYBE A NIGHT OR MAYBE SOMEONE GOES AWAY FOR A WEEKEND, CAN BE REALLY ENERGIZING FOR PEOPLE.

TO THINK WHAT IT WOULD BE LIKE IF I JUST MET THIS PERSON AND THEN I GOT TO MARRY THEM, THAT CAN BE A MENTAL EXERCISE THAT CAUSES LESS TAKING FOR GRANTED.

>> YOU HAVE BEEN TALKING ABOUT THE POSITIVE HABITUATION AND NEGATIVE.

I WILL TAKE THE NEGATIVE NOW, WHICH IS, WE GET USED TO BAD THINGS.

WE GET USED TO A NEIGHBORHOOD THAT'S FILLED WITH POTHOLES OR TRASH.

WE GET USED TO PROBLEMS IN OUR SOCIETY.

WE NO LONGER RISE UP AGAINST THEM.

ISN'T THAT A PROBLEM FOR BOTH PEOPLE AND FOR SOCIETY?

>> COMPLETELY.

IF YOU LOOK AT HOW PEOPLE RATE THEIR COUNTRIES OR THINGS IN THEIR COUNTRIES, PEOPLE WHO ARE IN COUNTRIES THAT AREN'T VERY FREE, CARE LESS ABOUT FREEDOM THAN PEOPLE DO IN COUNTRIES THAT ARE FREE, PEOPLE IN COUNTRIES THAT DON'T HAVE PARTICULARLY GOOD HEALTH CARE DON'T FOCUS ON THE IMPORTANCE OF HEALTH CARE MUCH, THAT YOU CAN GET USED TO CRUELTY, YOU CAN GET USED TO CORRUPTION, YOU CAN GET USED TO AUTHORITARIANISM, DISCRIMINATION, OPPRESSION.

THAT IS THE EVIL SIDE, LET'S SAY, OF HABITUATION.

IT'S VERY IMPORTANT TO THINK OF WAYS TO HAVE A CRITICAL DISTANCE FROM SOMETHING THAT'S NOT VERY GOOD SO THAT WE CAN STRUGGLE TO CHANGE IT.

>> HOW DOES SOCIAL MEDIA -- USING SOCIAL MEDIA TOO MUCH EXACERBATE EITHER THE PROBLEMS OR GIVE US A SOLUTION OUT OF THESE PROBLEMS?

>> HERE IS ONE THING THAT'S A PROBLEM, I THINK, FOR ALL OF US.

IF SOMETHING IS REPEATED A LOT, WE TEND TO THINK IT'S TRUE.

IT'S JUST HOW THE MIND WORKS.

FAMILIAR, TRUTHIER.

IF YOU HEAR SOMETHING FIVE TIMES, YOU THINK IT'S TRUE.

THE REASON -- THE TECHNICAL REASON, IF SOMETHING IS EASY TO PROCESS IN THE BRAIN, WE TEND TO THINK IT'S PROBABLY RIGHT.

THAT MEANS THE BRAIN IS GOING TO BE CREDULOUS WITH RESPECT TO THINGS FALSE BUT REPEATED.

THAT'S A CHALLENGE FOR ALL NATIONS.

IT'S ALSO THE CASE THAT IF PEOPLE ARE USED TO USING SOCIAL MEDIA, LET'S SAY, A LOT, CHECKING IT ALL THE TIME, IT'S AS IF THERE'S A LITTLE THING IN THEIR MOUTH THAT HURTS A LITTLE BIT OR IS EMITTING SOME NOISE THAT THEY ARE USED TO, THEY HAD A B-- HABITUATE TO IT AND THEY WON'T FEEL IT UNTIL THEY TAKE IT OUT OF THEIR MOUTH.

IF PEOPLE TAKE A BREAK FROM SOCIAL MEDIA, IT MIGHT BE A FULL-SCALE FULL TURKEY FOR A MORE OR A MORE MODEST BREAK, THEIR WELL-BEING TENDS TO INCREASE.

>> YOU SAY SOCIAL MEDIA CAN CAUSE DISHONESTY TO HE IS COULD LA -- ESCALATE.

>> THERE ARE TWO REASONS WHY.

IF SOMEONE TELLS YOU SOMETHING, YOU BELIEVE IT.

THE OSOMEONE TELLS YOU TWICE THT TOM BRADY IS THE GREATEST QUARTERBACK, THAT HAPPENS TO BE TRUE, BUT IF YOU HEAR IT TWICE, YOU ARE MORE LIKELY TO THINK IT'S TRUE.

T REPETITION INCREASES A BELIEF IN THE TRUTH OF THE STATEMENT.

THE OTHER IS TRUTH BIAS.

ON SOCIAL MEDIA, THESE ARE EVIL TWINS.

THEY TEND TO GET PEOPLE WHO ARE BELIEVING SOMETHING THAT'S FALSE.

WE HAD A STUDY WHERE PEOPLE COULD SAY NOT LIKE BUT TRUST.

YOU DON'T PRESS A LIKE BUTTON.

YOU PRESS TRUST.

THAT WAS EFFECTIVE IN INCREASING PEOPLE'S BELIEF IN WHAT WAS TRUE AND INCREASING THE SPREAD OF THINGS THAT WERE TRUE.

PEOPLE KNEW BEFORE THE FACT THAT TO GET SOMETHING OTHER THAN THE TRUST BUTTON WASN'T A VERY HAPPY MOMENT.

PEOPLE WANTED THE TRUST BUTTON.

>> YOU WRITE ABOUT GERMANY IN THE 1920s, 1930s IN PARTICULAR, BEING HADBITUATED TOWARD NAZIIS.

TELL ME HOW THAT CAN APPLY TODAY.

>> HERE IS SOME VERY CONCERNING AND VIVID WORK ON THE RISE OF NAZIISM.

PEOPLE WHO WERE THERE AT THE TIME SAID, IT WAS A LITTLE LIKE A FIELD THAT HAD CORN IN IT.

IT KEMENTPT GROWING AND GROWING.

EVENTUALLY, IT WAS OVER YOUR HEAD.

YOU DIDN'T KNOW IT WAS GOING TO GET THERE.

THE IDEA WAS THE WAY HITLER WORKED WAS BY INCREMENTS.

THINGS WERE GETTING WORSE AND WORSE, BUT IT WASN'T LIKE COMPLETE HORROR ON DAY ONE OR TWO OR THREE.

TYPICALLY, THE RISE OF FASCISM AND TERRIBLE THINGS IS IN INCREMENTS.

DAY ONE ISN'T GOOD.

BUT THE TRUE HORROR EMERGES OVER TIME.

I THINK IT'S FAIR TO SAY THAT BOTH IN EUROPE AND THE UNITED STATES, THERE HAS BEEN SOME LET'S CALL IT DEMOCRATIC BACKSLIDING IN WHICH CERTAIN NORMS OF RESPECT FOR PROCESSES, RESPECT FOR ONE ANOTHER, A COMMITMENT TO TRUTH, A COMMITMENT TO TREATING PEOPLE WHO DISAGREE WITH YOU AS PARTICIPANTS IN A SHARED ENDEAVOR, THAT'S ESSENTIAL FOR MUTUAL, LET'S SAY, COOPERATION, THAT ALL OF THOSE HAVE BEEN UNDER PRESSURE.

NOW IT LOOKS VERY DIFFERENT FROM EIGHT, NINE, TEN YEARS AGO.

IT MAY BE THAT THE FIELD IS GETTING POPULATED BY TALLER AND TALLER CORN.

>> IS THAT TRUE OF GUN VIOLENCE?

LAST YEAR WE HAD 656 MASS SHOOTINGS.

HAVE WE BECOME HADBITUATED TO THAT?

>> THERE'S NO QUESTION IF WE HAD THE FIRST MASS SHOOTING OF GUN VIOLENCE WHERE CHILDREN WERE BEING GUNNED DOWN, THE LEVEL OF OUTRAGE AND DISBELIEF WOULD BE FAR HIGHER THAN IT IS.

THIS IS A CASE WHERE THE REPETITION OF THE UNDERLYING HORROR REDUCES PEOPLE'S REACTION.

>> LET ME GET SPECIFIC ON RACIAL AND GENDER DISCRIMINATION THAT COMES ALONG.

YOU SAY THAT WE CAN AS SOCIETY GET HABITUATED TO THAT BUT PEOPLE INVOLVED AREN'T.

>> WITH RESPECT TO GENDER, IT IS OFTEN THE CASE THAT IN A COMMUNITY PEOPLE ARE JUST USED TO SOMETHING.

IT MIGHT BE COMMENTS THAT ARE DEMEANING.

IT MIGHT BE AN ALLOCATION OF LABOR THAT'S UNFAIR.

IT MIGHT BE SOMETHING WORSE.

IT MIGHT BE SEXUAL HARASSMENT OR SOMETHING.

TO GET A PURCHASE ON OUR OWN PRACTICES, I REMEMBER A TIME WHEN THERE WASN'T A TERM SEXUAL HARASSMENT.

IT JUST WASN'T A TERM.

SEXUAL HARASSMENT EXISTED, BUT THERE WANT A WORD FOR IT.

KATHERINE McKINNON MORE THAN ANY OTHER MADE PUBLIC THE TERM.

I'M NOT SURE IF IT'S HER TERM.

SHE WROTE A BOOK CALLED "SEXUAL HARASSMENT OF WORKING WOMEN."

THAT WAS FULL OF LEGAL ANALYSIS, BUT ALSO TALES OF SEXUAL HARASSMENT.

GOSH, FOR MEN IN PARTICULAR AND FOR MANY WOMEN THOUGHT, WHAT WORLD AM I IN THAT THESE EXIST?

THAT CAN BE DONE WITH RESPECT TO RACE ALSO WHERE THERE'S, LET'S SAY, EGREGIOUS DISCRIMINATION, THAT MAYBE EVEN PEOPLE WHO ARE ENGAGED IN THE DISCRIMINATION OR THE COMMENTS, THEY ARE NOT SEPARATED FROM THE PRACTICE.

THIS IS WHAT THEY KNOW.

>> THE PEOPLE WHO ARE THE VICTIMS OF RACIAL DISCRIMINATION, THEY DON'T GET HABITUATED -- I REMEMBER TALKING ABOUT ROBERT E. LEE, I SAID I'M USED TO THAT.

OTHERS SAY, I PAY ATTENTION.

TELL MOEE HOW THAT WORKS.

>> LET'S JUST SAY IT'S DISCRIMINATING AGAINST KAT CATHOLICS.

NON-CATHOLICS THINK IT'S LIFE AND THAT'S HOW IT IS.

FOR SOMEONE WHO IS CATHOLIC, IT'S GOING TO BE LIKE A SLAP IN THE FACE.

THEY MIGHT SEE IT AS PART OF THEIR CULTURE, BUT IT'S NOT SOMETHING THAT DOESN'T STING WHEN YOU GET SLAPPED IN THE FACE.

FOR A PERSON OF COLOR, THERE ARE PLACES AND MAYBE STATES OR MONTHS WHERE YOU GET SLAPPED IN THE FACE A LOT.

GETTING SLAPPED IN THE FACE ALWAYS HURTS.

EVEN IF THERE'S NO PARTICULAR WHITE PERSON WHO HAS DONE THE SLAP OR EVEN IF NO WHITE PERSON IN THE VICINITY INTENDED THE SLAP, THE SLAP IS THERE.

IT MIGHT BE BUILT INTO A PRACTICE.

IT MIGHT BE BUILT INTO SOME KIND OF LANGUAGE.

>> AS A SOCIETY, GIVE US SORT OF ONE OR TWO PIECES OF ADVICE YOU WOULD GIVE RIGHT NOW, GIVEN OUR CURRENT SITUATION, FOR US TO LOOK AGAIN AS A SOCIETY.

>> TAKE A CRITICAL DISTANCE FROM PRACTICES THAT ARE IN OUR SOCIETY.

IMAGINE THAT THIS WAS THE FIRST TIME YOU SAW THEM OR IMAGINE IT WAS THE LAST TIME YOU EVER WERE GOING TO SEE THEM.

IF YOU DO THAT EXERCISE, THEN SOME THINGS WILL SEEM LIKE, GOSH, WE DON'T HAVE TO LIVE WITH THIS, AND OTHER THINGS WILL MAKE US THINK, HOW DID WE GET SO LUCKY AS TO LIVE WITH THAT.

>> CASS SUNSTEIN, THANK YOU FOR JOINING US.

>> THANK YOU.

GREAT PLEASURE.