- Hello, and thanks for joining us.

I'm Laura Laughead.

72,000 students, 116 schools, and a staff of more than 10,000.

The Austin Independent School District is big, complex, and impactful.

And its future is uncertain.

On this episode of "Austin InSight", AISD at a turning point, an in-depth conversation with Superintendent Matias Segura.

At the top of the list of major challenges is consolidation.

Enrollment is down 15% since 2014, with more than 7,000 fewer students expected 10 years from now.

School building capacity and enrollment are out of alignment with 25,000 empty seats according to AISD data.

And we'll begin there with AISD Superintendent Matias Segura, who joins us now.

Thank you so much for being here.

I know this is a pivotal time for the school district.

- Of course.

Happy to be here, yeah.

- So, speaking of consolidation, you have the problem of too much space with 25,000 empty seats.

Can you help us understand what that means, and where are these seats located?

- Yeah, no, absolutely.

So, you know, when you think about Austin ISD, you know, we have been around for almost 150 years, a very, very long time.

So as the city has grown, we have grown as well, and as you can imagine, there's been movement all around the city.

There's been growth in certain areas in the '30s, '40s, and '50s, and there's been movement, you know, to the kinda outer parts of the city.

And so where we find ourselves today is in a school district that has excess capacity.

I would say, generally speaking, it's across the entire school district.

We do have areas in the north, northeast, south central, where we have more capacity, maybe a significant percent more than we have elsewhere.

And so for us as an organization, we have to acknowledge that every single square foot within Austin ISD, we have to manage, we have to operate, and there's an expense associated with that.

And we know that the cost of education in Texas has increased year over year.

We have to compete to make sure that we're providing programming and, you know, educators in our classrooms to educate our students.

And so we find ourselves at a point where we have to realign to ensure that our expenses meet the resources we have, and funding.

And one way to do that is become more efficient.

And so right now, we've acknowledged that we have about 20,000 excess seats.

They're primarily in elementary and middle schools.

But we certainly have opportunities for efficiencies in high schools as well.

- And you brought up some things I'd like to elaborate on.

The evaluation and scoring of each school is a blend of enrollment data, the condition of the buildings, cost per student analysis, like you brought up, plus factoring in students who have unique needs, like low income families, English learners, or special education.

How do you weigh all of this?

- Yeah, so one of the things I've been very clear with our community about is that we are going to go through a process.

There are lots of misalignments within Austin ISD, and again, it's a function of how old we are.

We've been here for a very long time.

And so what we wanted to do is to create a process that used data, and do it in a very transparent way so that we could identify where we have misalignments in Austin ISD.

In some cases, it's a school that is over-enrolled.

You know, we have schools that are 120% enrolled.

That's not good either.

We have schools that are under-enrolled.

We have misalignment in programs.

You know, one of the things that most people don't know is that we have middle schools that split to five different high schools.

And when you think about alignment in community, ensuring that we have programs so that our students can move through our system and be supported fully, we are just not aligned in that way.

And so it was really important that in this process, we created a rubric, and in that rubric, we relied on facility condition, we relied on cost per student, we relied on lots of information to develop a rubric and a index that identifies where we have these misalignments, and that then allows us to dive deeper and say, okay, we have a misalignment here in this part of the city.

Let's see what we can do, whether it's boundary changes, transfer policies, perhaps it's a closure, consolidation, to really address these imbalances and bring efficiency to the entire system.

So, just to be clear, you know, we are talking about consolidations in this effort, but we also are talking about boundary changes, we also are talking about program changes, and we also are talking about transfer policy changes as well.

- I know a lot of factors are being considered, and based on that rubric, we actually wanna show you a list of the top 10 schools most in line for consideration for consolidation.

Now, to be clear, this is not a list of school closings.

We also included the 2024 accountability letter grade for these schools.

The question that we are getting from parents is, why would such high performing schools, like Ridgetop, Maplewood, and McCallum, be so high on this list, and therefore more at risk for consolidation?

That is, why would you close high performing schools?

- And I think that's where the misconception is, right?

So that's not what the rubric is.

The rubric, as I, you know, will continue to say over and over again, it is merely a tool to identify where we have misalignments in our system.

You bring up McCallum, McCallum High School, right?

And you think about, you've mentioned consolidations.

You know, I don't think that we're at a place where we're talking about consolidating McCallum.

But what we are acknowledging is that McCallum, given its attendance boundary, given the size of the facility, is over-enrolled, and projected to continue to be over-enrolled.

And so that allows us to look at that misalignment and say, can we address this through a boundary change?

And if so, then we're gonna look at doing that.

So, I think that reinforces the fact that the rubric is not a closure list, but in fact a list of opportunities and areas of exploration.

And you mentioned, you know, the other two as well.

- At the same time, some low performing schools, at the opposite end of the spectrum, according to the state's grading system, they serve neighborhoods that have been historically underserved.

We have a team of reporters who've been in those neighborhoods the past year.

Wouldn't closing those schools negatively impact students and communities, would you say?

- Yeah, so I want to be honest and transparent that our schools are community assets, period, right?

I grew up in this city.

I'm a product of Austin ISD.

You know, we love our schools, and I love that our community loves our schools.

And so we do not take that lightly.

So yes, there will be a disruption.

At the end of the day, what we're trying to do is acknowledge that we do not have the resources in order to ensure that every student in Austin ISD gets what they need to be academically successful, or successful, period.

And for us to do that, we have to become more efficient, and we have to look across the district as to where those efficiencies can be gained.

When you talk about schools that have certain, you know, performance, you know, from the accountability rating, I want to acknowledge that, you know, whenever we look at any changes, we have to consider the fact that there are different limitations on what we can and can't do because of how we have to respond to these accountability ratings.

The state of Texas is very clear about, you know, when you have to develop a turnaround plan in year two, year three.

And so because of that, it limits some of our opportunities to kind of look at changes during the consolidation process.

So what's happening right now is both of these efforts are moving forward, and they're converging ultimately on a plan that helps us move forward.

- Would you say, though, we are at risk of losing the concept of neighborhood schools in Austin?

- I actually think that we are reinforcing our investment in neighborhood schools.

One of the things that we worked with, I worked with our board on, was to identify, you know, what are the values of Austin ISD?

What do we as a community believe in?

And one of the things that has come up over and over again is neighborhood schools.

We believe in neighborhood schools.

And what we know right now in Austin is we have lots of families that are choosing not to go to the neighborhood school.

So why is that?

Well, I think there's a lot of reasons, right?

There are different programs that maybe are interest to that family.

Perhaps it's the historical ratings, that somehow, you know, make a family choose one school over another.

But I have to acknowledge, and we as a board and administration acknowledge that we want our neighborhood schools to be strong.

We want our students to be on grade level.

We want to make sure that they're invested in.

The reality of it all is that we have just too many schools.

And so the model and concept of the neighborhood school is something we believe in, it's something that our board believes in, it's just how do you get to a place where you can actually fund what's needed to actually have successful, vibrant, loving community schools?

That is what we're trying to achieve here.

- And just to reiterate, there's the potential for closing 12 schools due to performance grades, that is to help avoid a takeover from the TEA, like we've seen play out in other places.

So, with both consolidation and performance at play, it sounds like a lot of shuttering of schools is coming.

Is that correct?

- So, not necessarily.

The one thing I wanna be really clear with our community on is that when we talk about the 12 schools that we'll be developing turnaround plans for, the ones that have three years of unsatisfactory ratings by way of the agency and the state accountability system, it doesn't necessarily mean that we are going to close, right?

There are six different options available to school districts in the development of these turnaround plans.

Some can be a reassignment, which is what you would describe as a close.

Some can be a restart, where the school remains intact, and we have a new administration, we hire staff.

Some can be partnering with an 1882 partner.

So there's different options.

The one thing I wanna be really clear with our community with is that the further along you are down this path, the fewer options you have.

So if you have two years of unsatisfactory ratings, then you have more options.

If you have three, then you have fewer.

And so I wanna be really, really clear, just because we have 12 schools that are developing turnaround plans because of their third year of unacceptability, doesn't mean that those schools are necessarily going to close.

There are different options available to us, but those options are limited given where we are in the process.

- Certainly there's no way to do this and make everyone happy, is there?

- You know, as I said before, I love our community.

I love the fact that our community shows up for schools.

I never want to go into a place and not have our families and parents and community members advocating for their schools.

That is not what I want.

And in fact, that is what makes Austin ISD so great, is that we do advocate and we do care so much.

So, it is complex.

There are lots of moving pieces.

there is going to be disruption.

We acknowledge that.

My hope is that we understand that what we care about in Austin is public education, we care about doing things that are aligned with our values, and that we recognize that sustained improvement is what we need.

Disruptions, changes in leadership, you know, changes in funding, like, all of those things are well behind us.

What we need to focus on now is system improvement, leaning into our values, and acknowledge that there are clear improvements that need to be made, and we're gonna do the work, we're gonna do it well, but we're all doing this together.

It's not any one school.

Our system produced those outcomes, right?

So we need to own it, and we need to be thoughtful in how we approach the work, and I'm very confident that we're gonna be successful navigating this complex journey together.

(upbeat music) (upbeat music continues) (upbeat music continues) - And we're back with Matias Segura, superintendent of Austin Public Schools.

Let's talk more about accountability and how AISD avoids a state takeover.

So, first, what are your thoughts on the new law abolishing the STAAR test, and replacing it with three shorter tests?

- Yeah, you know, I think that, you know, any time that you have a summative assessment like STAAR get changed, you know, we need to acknowledge that all of our school districts are gonna have to adapt, respond, and ultimately understand what the change is and be successful.

I think that there are elements within the bill that are going to be helpful as we navigate a new, you know, version of the assessment and the accountability system.

I think that as an organization in Austin ISD, we believe strongly that our students are so much more than just a score.

But we also acknowledge that, you know, there is a system in place that helps us understand how our students perform, and where we have opportunities for growth and improvement.

And right now, that's the accountability system that the state has.

And for us, you know, we are very thoughtful and understanding what it is, being proactive, acknowledging that there's opportunities for growth, and being very clear about how we're gonna meet that expectation and meet that challenge.

But for us, I always want our families to know that our schools are doing incredible things.

There's so much love and support and an experience that I think many of our Austinites value.

And those two together, right, the accountability system plus all of that, should be what is used to determine, like, what's best for your student.

But yeah, there's a lot of change.

We'll be working, you know, with the agency to understand what these changes ultimately mean as they roll out over a period of years.

And we'll be ready, you know, that's all I can say, is we'll be ready.

- And regarding standardized testing, which is of course everyone's favorite, right?

What's the biggest concern though?

Like, the content of the test, or the emphasis on these test results in grading the school's overall performance?

- You know, I think there's a combination of things that create concern just from, whether it's legislators or families, or, you know, school districts.

I think one thing that school districts definitely struggle with is just having certainty in how we're going to be evaluated as the assessments are completed, and afterwards, right?

So understanding where the cut scores are gonna be, understanding how, like, the framework and guidelines for the test.

And so now, in the new law, we'll have that assurance before the actual school year starts, which is very, very helpful.

At the same time, we never want to create a culture that is so high stakes testing that some of the really great genuine things that come out of education get lost.

And that's on the responsibility of the school districts.

You know, it is my job to ensure that there's this balance that we're focusing on what we need to focus on, that students are getting what they need to be successful, we're making hard decisions when we need to make them, but at the same time, ensuring that our students have, you know, the ability to go on field trips, right?

Have project based learning experiences.

Can really lean into the things that, you know, make educating and education so fun.

I mean, I think both of those can be married together, and if we do it well, we can be successful.

If you lean into one too much or the other, then I think you get an imbalance, and that's what we're hoping to avoid as we move forward, for sure.

- Though let's switch gears and listen to TEA Commissioner Mike Morath, who points out the lack of progress in some Austin schools.

- These campuses that we're talking about in Austin, I think the last time that they met minimum academic standards was something like 2017, 2016.

It's been a long time since there were kids that were at those schools that could reach any reasonable level of proficiency.

And just to put that in perspective, if 36% of your students at a campus are meeting grade level, that is not a failing grade.

- We wanted to give you a chance to respond to that.

Some districts with similar socioeconomic challenges are doing better than Austin.

Houston is cited as an example.

Why do you think that is?

- Well, I would say that the one thing we don't wanna do is to begin to compare school districts just for the sake of comparing them.

We are unique.

And, you know, one of the things that I've acknowledged, and I told the commissioner of, I said responded, is that, you know, we do have work to do.

There is no doubt in my mind that we have work to do.

When you think about where we were as an organization in '23, '24, and '25, you know, we were coming out of a significant period of disruption.

You know, a lot of school districts around us had more stability than we did.

There was turnover of superintendents.

Well, when a superintendent turns over, what do you think happens next?

Well, there's leadership changes, the curriculum changes, there's focus, there's professional development.

All the things change.

And that rippling effect has an adverse impact on student learning.

And so as we've come together, this board and this administration, we've been very thoughtful about improving climate and culture, and making sure that we have systems in place, making sure we understand where all of our students are, you know, in their academic journey, so we can provide interventions or we can provide supports.

And so I am very clear about the fact that we have work to do, and so I'm certainly very responsive and understand those comments, and I own them from the commissioner, but I also want our community to know that we are doing all the work to ensure that we're doing it in a way that aligns with our values.

And there's real evidence that these systems are moving.

You know, 2025 accountability was improved from 2024.

You know, for the first time, you know, every secondary school moved up a letter grade or stayed the same.

That had not happened before.

We had schools move from F to C and break the accountability chain.

You know, our early literacy outcomes, which is indicative of a healthy system, are, like, moving to such a degree, it's very, very exciting.

And so, again, we want to have a healthy system.

It cannot just be, you know, making an adjustment, you know, at this year, and hoping that it works.

I want sustained growth so that it is here regardless if I'm here or anyone else, and that our community gets what they need out of public education and Austin ISD.

So, it is a balance, but we're taking the challenge head on, and I'm very confident we're gonna be successful.

- And also, the legislature increased state funding for public education.

Would you say, is this enough?

And where are the biggest gaps?

- No, it's not enough.

That's a quick response for me.

You know, we're certainly appreciative of any movement.

You know, I wanna be really clear.

It is hard, because there are so many different challenges the state has, right?

Whether it's water or infrastructure.

But public education is the biggest bill cost-wise, right?

And what we know is that the cost of education has continued to rise year over year, and that we have not been able to keep up as a state.

So my hope is that HB2, though it was helpful at the end of the day, you know, a lot of it were pass-through funds, right?

So we are ensuring that we're providing compensation to our teachers.

There are other funds that are flow-through.

At the end of the day, the net, you know, retained, you know, kind of value to AISD, was a little bit less than $10 million.

And so a significant amount, but when you think about our, you know, $1.6 billion budget or billion dollar operating budget, it doesn't quite move the needle, which is why we're still having to go through the difficult decision of right sizing our district or balancing enrollment as best we can, reducing costs.

We went through essential office reorg.

We're really trying to be intentional and not disrupt our classrooms.

But there are things in Austin ISD that we value.

We value planning time, we value librarians, we value these things, and for us, it's important that we talk about them.

And we know that if we're going to protect them through any process, it may mean that we have to go look at consolidations.

It may mean that we have to go down this other path.

And that's what the work is about now.

So, no, it wasn't enough, yes, we are grateful, but we're hopeful to have continued conversations with legislators as we think about what this looks like in the 90th legislature, 91st legislature, and so on.

- Now let's talk another big topic for legislators at the Capitol, school vouchers.

Very heated, this past session.

In Arizona, vouchers using tax dollars for private school tuition.

They're being blamed for the closing of some public schools, not to mention the costs, which created huge budget problems there.

What's your expectation for the impact here, and do you think it will drive enrollment down in the future?

- I think there'll be an impact, for sure.

And just to be, you know, so our viewers are aware, there's over 1,000 public school districts in the state of Texas, and each one of them is gonna have a different impact from vouchers.

You know, I often will tell, you know, our folks, and, you know, different community stakeholders, that if you're a suburban school district or a rural school district or an urban school district, your experience can be very, very different.

And so in Austin, there will be an impact.

One of the things that I tell anybody that'll listen to me is that we have high quality education occurring in Austin ISD, and we are a school district where those with means are still selecting Austin ISD.

And we are very proud of that.

And for me, I have no problem competing.

I just ask that the rules be the same on both sides.

And so as we move forward, you know, we understand that there are things that are happening around us and at the state level that we have little control over.

but I am gonna do my absolute best to make sure that we as a school district in Austin, this incredible city, do what we can to protect public education, and do it in a way that aligns with our values.

But yeah, there's gonna be an impact.

It is hard to determine kind of the scale of that impact.

You know, this is the first year that we're in now where, you know, these vouchers have taken place.

So, we're monitoring, but we're hopeful that if we do things well, families will choose Austin ISD.

- And, you know, you bring up a good point, mentioning rural districts.

It was really interesting to see this past session that rural Republicans deviated from party on this area issue because of the impact on rural schools, and that these days is a big deal.

So many issues to cover with you, but we promise we just have one more.

- There's a lot.

There's a lot, oh, yeah.

- I know there's a lot.

We said one more.

And it's only been a few weeks, but what has been the reaction so far to banning cell phones in the classroom?

I'm really curious about this one too.

- Yeah, you know, so before the state legislature approved this bill, I had already worked with my board and our principals to develop a cell phone ban policy.

One of the things that we were noticing was that some schools had already... We've had a policy, but it wasn't as rigid as what we're seeing now, but we've had a policy for years.

And we had some high schools that had implemented a fairly rigid policy where there were no cell phones at lunchtime or during the hallway in the transition period, and we had other high schools and middle schools that didn't do that.

And after spending lots of time at these schools, what I noticed is that when you go to a middle school and you don't have cell phones, kids are talking, right?

They're having fun.

Some of them are horsing around.

But they're doing what kids should be doing, right?

They're interacting with one another.

And I've also been to another high school in Austin ISD where that cell phone policy at that time was implemented in the same way, and there are students, you know, across the table, like you and I, across from one another, and we're both on our phone, like, texting one another.

And so for us, we've noticed an increase in some fights, we've noticed increase in different behavioral challenges, and so for us, in an effort to, you know, kind of eliminate that distraction, we are in favor of the cell phone policy.

For us, we wanna make sure that it's done in a way that works for Austin ISD.

We want our families to know that, you know, if your student needs access to their phone, they will have access.

Like, it's with them in the case of there's an emergency or something.

But all the times of the day, lunchtime, passing periods, they shouldn't have it out.

And so how is it going?

I think it's going really well.

You know, I've been talking to our high school principals, I've spent time with them.

You know, the first couple weeks, there was definitely a transition.

But we wanted to get ahead of it, because as TEA releases guidelines, some of it may be even more strict than what we're doing now.

But overall, I think it's gone really, really well.

And I'll tell you, one of the first things that I saw, I think it was on day two when I was visiting schools, was like the old notes.

Do you remember the notes?

Like, "Hey, do you want to hang out after school?"

- Oh my gosh, yeah.

- The notes are coming back.

- Wow.

- And so, you know, it's different, right?

And I think as long as students are talking to one another, having conversations, and things aren't escalating because of the cell phone environment, we're gonna be in favor of.

It's just, how do you do it in a way that doesn't introduce any risk or concerns from families?

And I think we've got a good balance, but we know that may change based on guidelines from the agency as we move forward.

- Next will be paper airplanes in the classroom.

- Oh, those are still going on.

- Still going on?

Okay, good.

We can't let the paper airplanes go anywhere.

And you brought up the concept of safety, and that is something we've heard specifically from parents, and they wanted us to ask on their behalf.

- Sure.

- You know, just to elaborate more, since students won't be able to necessarily immediately access their phones at all times, in the case of an emergency, we all see the headlines, far too common, tragically, of school shootings, especially even in the last few weeks as schools started back up in the Midwest.

So what is your message to parents who are concerned about their ability to readily access their phones in an emergency?

- Yeah, my direct comment, or, I guess, feedback to families, is we recognize that, which is why our policy leans into having the phone, like, in the backpack with the student.

Having it out is very different than having it, you know, far away, like, in a pouch, like at that front office, or wherever it may be.

And so that is an effort to kind of create balance between the risk of not being able to communicate with family in the event there's an emergency.

The other thing I would say is, you know, we have to lean into a culture of safety.

You know, there are lots of things happening in our schools when you serve over 70,000 students, and what we've found is that when students are engaged and having conversations and communicating with, you know, adults in a healthy way, we understand what we need to protect our students.

And so, you know, sometimes people will say, "Matias, why don't you do this," or, "Why don't you do that?"

And then what I tell 'em is, you know, a culture of safety, communicating, you know, the investment in the 2022 Bond Program, which is huge, right, with security vestibules and fencing, we are doing a lot to ensure, and really, all that we can at this point, to ensure that our schools are safe.

But we don't want our schools to be not welcoming, right?

We don't want our schools to be overly cold, right?

These are warm, loving environments.

And you can make the safest school in the world, but if you do it at the risk of a strong educational environment, then I think you're missing the point, right?

And so for us, it's this balance.

I think that we've been very proactive, myself coming out of a place, you know, my past, where I spent a lot of time thinking through these types of efforts at scale.

I feel confident we're approaching it with the right balance, and it's in alignment with our values as a community, for sure.

- Well, this has been an extremely informative, illuminating conversation, Superintendent Segura.

I know you're probably like, "Oh my gosh, all these topics," and there's still more we could talk about.

- Oh, there's more.

Oh, I've enjoyed it.

It's been fantastic.

- Well, it's quite a moment for AISD.

Thank you so much for coming on the show and sharing your insights with us.

- Of course.

Happy to be here.

(upbeat music)