- So I've been dabbling in your books- - [Matt] Mm-hmm.

- And looking at your illustrations and showing it to my nieces and nephews, - [Matt] Mm-hmm.

- And I realize that you have a heavy theme of like monsters and pirates- - Mm-hmm.

- And like weird little creatures.

- [Matt] Yeah.

- And I wanted to know, why that style with your illustrations for your children's books?

- I think there's a couple reasons.

One is because when you're creating an imaginary creature like a monster, you know, that monster doesn't have to have a gender or an age or a skin color, right?

- Mm-hmm.

- And that means that for a reader, they can connect with, they can see themselves in that character in a different way because it's less specific.

You know, I think this is why "Sesame Street" is full of muppets.

- Yeah.

(chuckles) - Right?

Kids can relate to an Ernie or a Bert, or an Oscar the Grouch or a Grover in a way that they might not be able to connect with a real person.

- Mm.

- The other advantage, of course, is that when you're drawing monsters, it's hard to draw them wrong.

So, you know, if you put the nose on the wrong side of the head or you draw too many eyeballs or whatever, it still works.

- So how do you choose your themes for your books, and what's your process look like?

- I get this question a lot about, you know, like where do ideas come from, where do themes come from?

You know, ideas can come from anywhere.

So it might be something I read or something I saw in a museum, or wherever.

It could be just something that someone said.

Like I did a book, I did a couple books about this hairy pirate named "Backbeard."

(Jade chuckles) The hairiest pirate who ever lived.

And that came about one day, I was out, it was a summer day, it was out swimming at a lake with some friends.

And my friend's dad was there and he was paddling around in the canoe, and he was pretending to be a pirate.

And he's a very, he's a magnificently hairy man.

(Jade chuckles) And someone shouted out, "Hey, black beard!"

I was in the water behind the canoe.

And what I heard was, "Hey, back beard!"

I looked up, I saw his hairy back.

I thought they said, "Hey, back beard!"

I thought it was the funniest, it's still the funniest joke I ever heard that no one ever said, and I thought this was so great.

I raced back to shore, I wrote it down, "Backbeard Hairiest Pirate," ever thought, "This has got to be a book."

And so I sat down and I came up with a story about this hairy pirate, imagining what kind of trouble a hairy pirate might get into.

But it wasn't until I was done with those books that I really realized what they were about.

- Mm.

- So it didn't start with a theme, it started with a dumb joke.

(Jade chuckles) Right?

And in the end, I realized that what the stories were about were about friendship, they were about identity, about feeling comfortable, expressing who you really are.

Those were not things I intended to do.

And I think a lot of writers will say the same thing.

We don't really know what it is we've written until it's done.

- Mm.

- And that can be a wonderful, great surprise.

- That is, and I love the joke (laughs) "Backbeard."

(Matt chuckles) And then creating such an amazing story behind just a silly little joke.

- Mm.

- I love that.

So why children's books?

- That's a good question.

You know, I think as an illustrator, children's books are a wonderful opportunity to draw the kinds of things that I love to draw.

But also I think, I don't know what this says about me, but the children's books, middle grade books, a lot of these are stories about the things that I want to read even as an adult.

- [Jade] Mm.

- I'm interested to know the story of a hairy pirate, or what would happen if Benjamin Franklin came back to life.

So I never think of it really as writing for children.

I think of it as writing stories that I would want read that just happened to be for kids.

- And do you think that's like the secret sauce to your success?

It's like not writing for children, not really dumbing it down, but truly writing for yourself and then in terms it just is attractive to young audiences?

- Yeah, I think that's the case with so many things.

I think the best children's books don't write down to kids.

You know, Maurice Sendak, "Where the Wild Things Are" is a book that we would call a children's book.

But the themes in that are very, very real.

And he was- - Yes.

- Never, never writing down.

You can tell when somebody is talking down to a child.

- You can.

- Kids can tell when adults are talking down to them, and it never works.

- Hmm, and that makes sense because some of my favorite books as a kid are like, "Amelia Bedelia", - Mm-hmm.

- "Stinky Cheese Man", - Yeah.

- "Where the Wild Things Are".

- Sure.

- And my mom loved reading those to me.

- [Matt] Mm-hmm.

- And as an adult, reading them to my nieces and nephews, it's having me understand like, "Oh, they're, it's like kind of like how Pixar does."

You know, it's like they write it- - Exactly.

- For adults.

- Yeah.

- But it also has, and they write it for children, but it also has some adult themes, you know, interwoven within it.

So therefore- - Mm-hmm.

- It's enjoyable for all audiences- - [Matt] Exactly.

- And not specifically written just for young audiences.

So I think that's awesome.

- So well said.

- Yeah.

- Yeah, yeah.

Mm.

- So have you ever dabbled in any more, I guess, serious or adult illustrations or books in your past or future or present?

- Well, I'm working on, I've got a middle grade novel that I've been working on- - Mm.

- That's with my agent right now.

And I'm very excited about that, 'cause that gives me a chance to do more character development and to explore some other themes that don't really fit in like a 32-page picture book.

- Mm.

- I've also really enjoyed.

Lately, I've been working on writing musicals with a couple of co-writers with my friend Larry and Michael, who's also a professor at Sage.

And that's been really, really interesting.

We've been taking some of these stories, "Backbeard" and Benjamin Franklinstein* and adapting them to the stage.

And that's a whole different way of writing and thinking about characters and thinking about how a plot moves along.

That's been very exciting to do.

- Well, that is really fun.

- Yeah.

- I know all artists, we love to expand our- - Oh, yeah.

- Surroundings and our horizons artistically.

So I'm super excited to even see that from you.

I know you work in education, - Mm-hmm.

- And I want to hear a little bit about that.

Like what do you do in education and why does it bring you joy?

- Mm.

I've been a professor at Russell Sage in the visual and performing arts department for...

It's over 25 years now.

- Wow.

(chuckles) - And I feel so blessed to have that job because not only do I get to work with a bunch of really interesting, inspiring artists and talk shop all day, but I also get to work with some amazing students.

And I think anybody who teaches will tell you that there's no better way to learn something than to try and teach it to someone else.

- Mm-hmm.

- And so I look at those 25 years as that's been an amazing education for me.

I've learned so much, sometimes directly from my students who give me feedback that had never occurred to me before.

Or even just the way that I have to clarify something in my mind- - Mm.

- In order to present it to the students.

- So what's coming up next for you?

What do you have on the books that you think the audience should know about new upcoming books?

I know you mentioned your plate.

- [Matt] Mm-hmm.

- Do you have conferences, panels, anything like that book as well?

- Well, the big one is I've got a couple proposals out with my agent for some new books that I'm very excited about.

One is a series and the other is this novel.

We're bringing "Benjamin Franklinstein" lives back to the Theater Institute at Sage.

That'll be this November.

And I'm very proud of that show.

I think the actors are amazing.

The music came out great, really excited about that.

And then we're working on a new musical that we're hoping will be done in time for next season, next year.

- Oh, I am excited for Russell Sage, right?

- Yeah, this will be at the Theater Institute at Sage.

- Awesome.

Well, I'm excited.

Well, thank you Matt, for coming to chat today.

And folks, check out his books- - Mm-hmm.

- And thank you.

- Thank you, Jade.

I really appreciate it.

- [Jade] Appreciate you, too.