[piano intro] - Hello, I'm Nido Qubein.

Welcome to Side by Side.

My guest today leads an organization whose goal is to improve the quality of life for all North Carolinians.

He's also led the third largest school system in the state as chief operating officer and as superintendent.

We're talking education, access and equality with the executive director of the Z. Smith Reynolds Foundation, Maurice Mo Green.

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[cheerful music] ♪ - Mo Green, welcome to Side by Side.

The old saying says you can't keep a good man down.

I mean, you were the chief operating officer of the Charlotte Mecklenburg School System.

You came to Guilford County in North Carolina, again, to be the superintendent.

Now you are executive director of a leading foundation in North Carolina, the Z. Smith Reynolds Foundation.

I'm so glad to talk with you.

Gotta ask you a question.

You were an undergraduate at Duke University.

You got your Juris Doctor at the Duke University.

Are you a Duke fan?

- I am a huge Duke fan.

- You are.

- And before I even go there, let me just say thank you so much for allowing me to be on the show with you.

But yes, I'm a huge Duke fan.

- Okay.

[laughs] We like it, it's good rivalry in North Carolina, right?

We're all North Carolinians at the end of the day.

Listen Mo, you are involved in very important work.

You are receiving applications, you and your staff, you're analyzing the needs of our state, you are awarding grants and monies to help people become better in North Carolina.

Tell me something about Z. Smith Reynolds Foundation.

For example, how many people are on your team, what do they do, what kind of grants do you make?

And how do you decide who gets money and who doesn't?

- Excellent, so the Z. Smith Reynolds Foundation, first of all, is a foundation that focuses solely on the state of North Carolina, but can do essentially anything within that.

The organizing documents essentially say that we're to accomplish charitable works for the state of North Carolina.

The foundation has been in existence for 85 or so years.

And over that time, has done many, many different things.

Currently, we have a new framework for grant making in learning the last three plus years that has three major strategies.

One is the state level systemic change strategy, where we're looking at issues at a statewide level, what can be changed to improve the lives of North Carolinians.

- Any specific sector or need?

- And so there are four priority areas on the state level strategy.

They are public education, the environment, social and economic justice issues, and then issues around democracy.

We have a second strategy that focuses on our community.

So we call it our community based strategy.

And we have a number of initiatives focused there.

And they're done without regard to any sort of priority area.

And then third and finally, we have a focus on what we call exploratory visionary ideas.

The foundation, in its DNA, is one that is really willing to get out on the edge, be a leader.

And so we wanted to be sure that we're continuing to do that in this new framework.

And so that is something that we do.

And again, without regard to focus area there as well.

We have 16 or so members on the team.

We have trustees, about a dozen trustees that actually makes the grant decisions for the most part.

We give out or award someone in the neighborhood of $20 million annually.

- So give me an example or two where funding from the foundation has been placed in appropriate areas in North Carolina.

And tell me how you monitor the success and sustainability of these projects?

- Excellent, so I'll start with something in our exploratory visionary ideas, and I'll lift up our inclusive public art initiative, which was the foundation's response to issues around race and monuments that were going on in 2018.

- That's a very touchy subject.

- It is, but I think an important one, and one that continues today.

And so the foundation wanted to say, what else should we be recognizing in North Carolina?

Who else, what storage should we be lifting up?

So art really, isn't something that the foundation does a lot of, but really felt like this was an appropriate and timely thing for the foundation to do.

And so we sent out requests for proposals to get letters of intent back from community members across the state.

We received 82, I believe.

- You mean someone saying to you, we would like to have such and such an art in the center of our city or at a high school or some public area?

- Exactly, and from there, we narrowed it down to semifinalists and ultimately awarded grants to 10 of the projects across the state.

And they... - Typically, what a project like that cost?

- Obviously our projects can run the gamut.

We wanted to, with this first round award grants around $50,000 for each project.

I will tell you, we're so excited that we have a second cohort starting.

We've combined our work with the Mellon Foundation, which is a national foundation that focuses on the arts that will enhance the amount of dollars we'll be able to give out per project.

- Do you hire the sculptor?

How do you monitor, how do you make sure that you are happy at the end of the day with what happened with the money?

- Sure, so the community actually is in charge of selecting the artists and oftentimes, selects artists from their community that knows that community, knows the story that's trying to be told.

Or sometimes a community will say, there's someone who's nationally or statewide known well that can really pick up the story that we're trying to tell in this particular case.

So it's the community that does the selection.

- So Mo, Rosa Parks is one of my heroes.

I've read a lot about her.

I like for young people to learn about the courage of this woman who stood tall in the face of adversity and punishment and pain, but somewhere I saw from your foundation that there's another woman in North Carolina who actually did what Rosa Parks did before Rosa Parks.

Am I right?

Am I wrong?

And if I'm right, who is that?

Tell us the story.

- Yeah, and this was the beauty of the inclusive public art project, because it allowed us to find stories of individuals who did amazing things in North Carolina.

And so Sarah Keys Evans, - Sarah Keys.

- [Maurice] Evans.

- Sarah Keys Evans.

- Yes, was an individual who was returning home from service and in that she stopped in Roanoke Rapids and got on a bus, sat down and was told, "No, you cannot sit there.

"It's for someone else to sit there," a white person to sit there.

She refused, she was ultimately arrested.

She got back home, decided that wasn't right.

And so filed a claim with the interstate commerce commission and a decision in her favor came down about a week or so before Rosa Parks sat down on a bus.

- How come this story is not told, how much of history is not revealed in an accurate manner like, this is an interesting story.

- Yeah, so my sense is even from this simple project that we're doing, it has revealed to me and I think to many others, there are many, many stories that have gone untold that need to be told to really sort of be sure that we as North Carolinians and as Americans understand our history.

There are many, many stories that are out there and that's really, what's driving us to say, we should do a second round of this initiative.

- Let's talk about that emphasis on public schools, you certainly have a very successful career in leading public school systems, chief operating officer in Charlotte Mecklenburg, a superintendent in Guilford County and you're a lawyer, you didn't necessarily go to a school of education to become a superintendent, but you brought relevant and new and fresh, innovative ideas with you as well.

What is the emphasis of the foundation in public schools and was that emphasis there before your time, or did you bring that emphasis?

- So the emphasis was there before I arrived.

The foundation really felt like this was a place where we could make substantial and substantive change and improvements for North Carolinians.

And it certainly then was attractive to me as I was considering a place to try to do some work.

And so we have continued that.

So the emphasis is certainly on trying to build public will to support public education.

It's around issues of equity and then certainly around trying to just improve outcomes in various manners within the public education system.

- Public schools have a lot of challenges, Mo.

I mean, it's equity is one of them, but my goodness, it's when we look at, first of all, the complexity of running a public school system with tens of thousands of students and therefore families, all of them have their own ideas and prejudices and measurements of what they believe is successful.

What do you think are one or two of the most difficult challenges to meet in our public school system in North Carolina?

- So, as you said, there are certainly a number of challenges, but I always like to start with this.

There are many success stories in our public school systems in North Carolina, and we should never forget the fact that we have got folk who are doing amazing work every day.

- [Nido] Of course.

- To educate our kids.

So now having recognized that that's the place to start... - But some of those very people are sometimes held back by the system itself, by societal differences, by economic conditions and so on.

- Absolutely, I do not wanna minimize them.

- Yes.

- But I also don't want us to not remember that they are, - They're heroes.

- They are amazing stories, everyday stories of folks doing amazing work in our public school system.

And we ought to really, I think, start from that vantage point and then say, okay, now what can we do better?

What are the things that we can focus on?

So one of the things I would certainly lift up is resources.

Certainly there's a need for additional resources within our public school systems.

That's why we have supported the Leandro school funding litigation for a number of years supported a consultant who came in to help the court identify the substantial financial needs for our public school system, so that's one.

Another issue that certainly exists is something, and I think you were sort of going towards, which is this sense of not everyone gets the same opportunities in our public school systems.

And so how do we ensure that those who... - Not just not everyone, Mo, but not every school based on what's located and who's enrolled in it and the budget it has and so on.

- Sure, and so being sure then that we provide the best educators in the places where they're needed the most, that we provide, again, the other resources that we raise a level of expectations for all in a building, in a community and a school district to support our public schools.

- What is the role of universities in aiding the school system to become even more relevant in ever changing such a competitive global environment in which we all reside?

- So it's my belief that universities and colleges certainly higher education.

- Yes.

- Has a significant role to play in educating all of our individuals in our community.

And that is, there are different types, so we ought to recognize and not every university or college has exactly the same mission, but it's my belief that every university should be about trying to develop the skills of individuals who come into those institutions.

Also develop the character of the folks who come into those institutions, such that folks can be about doing incredible things intellectually, but also be of service to their local communities, or their broader state communities or nationally, wherever they happen to land.

- Mo, you are educated and prepared to be a lawyer.

Did you ever practice law?

- I did.

- And how is your law school background helping you in your business now, your leadership now and how did it help you in school system?

In fact, you began in Charlotte Mecklenburg as the general council there, but then you evolved into the leader of chief operating officer down there and superintendent thereafter.

And now you're leading a foundation.

Tell me how law school contributes to ones solid leadership in these other disciplines.

- So from my vantage point, law school was a tremendous opportunity for me to learn how to think critically, to ask questions, to look around the corner and understand that there might be another answer to the questions that are being posed to the issues that we're trying to grapple with.

Certainly, law school also gave me the opportunity to learn about a number of different areas and some that I had a lot of interest in, some maybe I didn't have quite as much interest in, but really exposed me to the issues of the moment, put in context of history and then allows one to think about what tomorrow could look like that could be better for a particular community.

So how does that then relate to each of the jobs that I've had?

Well, each of the jobs that I've had from practicing law to being in institutions like public schools, or even with the foundation, is in so many instances, that's exactly the kind of person you want to be involved.

Someone who's gonna think critically, who's gonna look beyond what is presented and see if there is something different or better that we can do.

That's gonna listen.

Certainly, with public schools, you do a lot of, I think the effective leaders do a lot of listening to understand what's on people's minds, both the educators and staff members, as well as parents and community members.

And then try to put that into a program that can be effective for students.

- In fact, there are many, many students who go to law school and get a doctorate in law and go to work in business and corporations and nonprofits and so on, right?

I mean, it's not always, it doesn't follow, you get the degree and you actually practice law in the context that we understand practicing law, lay people understand.

- That is exactly right.

And I don't know that I had that sense as I was coming through.

I from very, very young age, wanted to be a lawyer.

And I thought everyone else who went to law school wanted to do the same.

So I was exposed then to the fact that there are so many folk who actually go to law school with the desires of maybe practicing for a moment, but mostly to do something else, but really feel like that education that you get, the skills that are developed really can serve... - Holistic education.

- Can serve you well.

- So Mo, what was your undergraduate major, political science?

- Yes, sir.

So I had two majors, one of which was political science, the other of which was economics.

- Did you have a scholarship to go to Duke?

- I did receive some support to go to Duke, yes, sir.

- You had to be a smart student, right?

And demonstrate that you're gonna be a leader someday.

You've received many honors, many of which I'm familiar with.

What is the most meaningful one to you?

- That's a great question.

I will tell you, first of all, people have really blessed me, with given me lots of awards and I appreciate them all, I do, but it's the awards that recognize others or recognize as something that the institution has done that really mean the most to me.

So for example, the awards that recognize Guilford County schools as a state, a national leader, with regards to the development of character education and service learning and all of our students, that meant as much as anything to me.

- It involves a lot of people, it's teamwork.

It takes a village to make something good.

- Absolutely, absolutely.

So I would go there before anything.

And that does not mean that I don't appreciate receiving the individual recognitions, I'm honored to receive them, but I'd rather see the institutions and the individuals and the institutions being.

- So you're sitting in the boardroom at Z. Smith Reynolds Foundation, you've got your staff with you, you're looking at applications, you say, these are the prerequisites for us to evaluate and therefore, estimate whether or not we wanna do, what are those two or three things?

- So it's gonna vary depending on the strategy that we're talking about.

- [Nido] Right.

- But let's take our state level systemic change strategy for example, they were looking for folks who number one, have identified their connection to that strategy.

What are they doing or planning to do with the resources that will advance that particular strategy?

Two, we are, and foundations are different, some will want a proven track record of success before first dollars or dollars are given.

We tend to be one that says that's wonderful, but we're also willing to support individuals and organizations that may not have that, but have some suggestion that they will get that with the resources that the foundation can give them.

We're certainly looking to see what other resources they have and how they've utilized those resources to the best... - Historic performance.

- Historic performance, or again, if there's not historic performance, then yeah, What have they done or planning to do even with the more limited resources that they have.

- So I guess what I'm trying to arrive at is how much of it is quantitative, how much is qualitative?

how much of it is measurable, how much of it is not guesswork, but hopeful?

- Sure, again, that's gonna vary among foundations.

I would say that for us, there's a lot of qualitative work done, and that's where a lot of our emphasis is placed on.

- So you're looking at the person and the process and the need and the vision and the capacity and ability to carry forth?

- That's correct.

- So Mo, is there a time when you sit with your trustees and you're voting on some grant awards you're planning on and you don't agree, the jury does not completely agree, what happens then?

- So in most instances, the trustees are actually making the decisions.

So what we as staff do is to try to give them the best information we can, help them think about what else they could be thinking about as they're making that decision.

So if as staff members, we would say, gosh, this is one that we really think they ought to consider, then we wanna be sure that as they're making that decision, have you thought about not only A and B but C and D as you're making that decision, but ultimately, the trustees make the decision.

- But you've got 12 of them.

And six of them believe wholeheartedly in this one and five of them don't and the other one just says, "I don't care either way."

How do you resolve an issue like that?

For more information, more discussion.

- Yeah, so it's gonna vary.

Ultimately, in our foundation, there are the ability for trustees to vote and the majority vote can rule the day.

But I think in most of those situations where there are that kind of division, sometimes trustees will say, "Let's continue to talk.

"Let's continue to see if there's more information "that we might be able to gather "to see if we might have a little bit more of a consensus "among us about which way to go forward."

But there's certainly times when at the end of the day, the majority... - What frustrates you the most in your job?

- I don't know that I have major frustrations.

- Oh, come on, Mo.

We all have frustrations.

When you go home and tell your wife, this was not the best of days, here's why.

- Yeah, I don't do that.

I am blessed beyond measure.

I am blessed beyond measure, so I don't have many frustrations.

The thing that maybe challenges me the most is have I done enough today to improve the lives of North Carolinians?

Have I done enough?

And so I remember for example, when I was superintendent and we'd get the information back on how many kids pass a particular standardized test and they would not meet our goal, what could I have done to increase the number of students who would have achieved on this particular exam?

Is there something else?

What lever could I have pulled?

Who could I have brought in to do something different?

That's the kind of issues that challenge me.

But as far as frustrations, I'm beyond blessed.

I don't worry about those kinds of frustrations.

- Great answer by the way, wonderful answer.

It speaks of your heart.

And that's why you've always gone along with people.

You are calm and collected human being who is measured in all of his decisions.

And I admire that quality in good leaders.

What's next for you?

- So very interesting question.

When I announced I was leaving the Guilford County schools to go to the Z. Smith Reynolds Foundation, I remember remarking that I'm on a path that is not my choosing because I thought I wanted to be a lawyer for my entire life and do law related activities.

And so I'm at a place where I'm enjoying what I'm doing.

I can see more things that we can do.

And so that's what I'm focused on as much as anything else.

And we'll see what comes about.

I'm always try to leave myself open, but this has been a remarkable place for this part of my life.

And I can see me continue to try to do additional things.

- Getting better and better every day at what you do.

Mo Green, thank you for being with me on Side by Side.

Your life has been most interesting and your work is most rewarding and we thank you and wish you blessings in all that you do.

Thank you, sir.

- Thank you, thanks so much for having me.

- [Announcer] Funding for Side by Side with Nido Qubein is made possible by.

- [Announcer] Heres to those that rise and shine, to friendly faces doing more than their part and to who still enjoy the little things.

You make it feel like home.

Ashley HomeStore, this is home.

- [Announcer] For over 60 years, the everyday leaders at the Budd Group have been committed to providing smart, customized facility solutions to our clients and caring for the communities we serve.

[soft music] - [Announcer] Coca-Cola consolidated is honored to make and serve 300 brands and flavors locally.

Thanks to our teammates.

We are Coca-Cola consolidating, your local bottler.