♪ ADAM: TONIGHT ON TALKING POLITICS, A LOOK AT THE MYSTERIOUS BOSTON POLICY INSTITUTE.

PLUS GRAD WORKERS ARE ON STRIKE.

SINCE PRO-PALESTINIAN ENCAMPMENTS STARTED GOING UP ON COLLEGE CAMPUSES ACROSS THE COUNTRY, MANY STUDENT PROTESTERS HAVE BEEN WARY OF THE MEDIA AND NOT WITHOUT REASON.

COVERAGE HAS TENDED TO BE MORE SENSATIONAL THAN COMPREHENSIVE AND NUANCED.

HOW ARE WE THE MEDIA DOING?

I’M JOINED BY DAN LOTHIAN AND LYLAH, FORMER MANAGING EDITOR OF U.S. NEWS & WORLD REPORT.

DO YOU THINK WHEN IT COMES TO THE VOLUME OF PROTEST COVERAGE THAT WE ARE GETTING IT RIGHT IN TERMS OF THE AMOUNT?

ARE WE COVERING IT APPROPRIATELY , ENOUGH OR MAYBE TOO MUCH?

>> THAT’S A TOUGH QUESTION.

IT DEPENDS ON WHERE YOU ARE LOOKING.

THE MEDIA IS NOT A MONOLITH.

THE WAY IT’S BEING TREATED DIGITALLY AND IN PRINT IS DIFFERENT FROM WHAT YOU ARE SEEING ON TV.

THE MEDIA IN GENERAL IS INHERENTLY REACTIVE IN SITUATIONS LIKE THIS.

IF IT’S BIG AND LOUD AND MESSY, IT’S GOING TO GET AIRTIME.

I THINK OVERALL WE ARE PAYING ATTENTION AND THAT’S THE MOST IMPORTANT PART.

IT’S VERY EASY FOR PEOPLE TO DISMISS ENCAMPMENTS BECAUSE THEY ARE TIRED OF WHAT’S GOING ON, THEY DON’T UNDERSTAND THE NUANCES OF THE TOPIC BEING PROTESTED.

THEY ARE CONFUSED SEEING WHO IS MAKING UP THESE PROTESTS.

OVERALL THE MEDIA NEEDS TO KEEP THEIR EYE ON WHAT’S GOING ON AND KEEP EXPLAINING THINGS.

ADAM: WHAT’S YOUR TAKE ON THE AMOUNT OF COVERAGE?

>> I AGREE WITH YOU THAT DEPENDING ON WHERE YOU CONSUME YOUR NEWS, YOU COULD ARGUE THAT IT’S BEING OVER COVERED OR UNDER COVERED.

IT IS IMPORTANT THAT THE STORY IS TOLD.

ANY TIME THAT YOU CAN SHINE THE LIGHT ON YOUNG PEOPLE GETTING ENGAGED IN NOT ONLY THE POLITICAL PROCESS BUT A GLOBAL STORY AND AN ISSUE, I THINK THAT’S A GOOD THING.

OR I DO THINK YOU MIGHT ARGUE THAT IT’S BEING OVER COVERED AND COVERED PERHAPS WITH THE WRONG VIEW IS ACROSS SOCIAL MEDIA.

AND THE REASON FOR THAT IS PEOPLE WANT TO SHARE THE PEOPLE GETTING SHOVED, CHASED AWAY, POLICE MOVING IN.

THOSE THINGS ARE OFTEN SHARED WITHOUT CONTEXT.

THERE IS ONE QUICK LINE, CAN YOU BELIEVE THIS HAPPENED.

DEPENDING ON WHAT SIDE YOU ARE TAKING ON THIS, THAT IS WHAT IS SHARED.

I FOLLOW A LOT OF DIFFERENT NEWS SITES AND PEOPLE ON INSTAGRAM AND THAT IS WHERE I NOTICED THAT YOU SEE A LOT OF COVERAGE THAT ISN’T PROVIDING THE KIND OF CONTEXT.

OR YOU HAVE TO GO DIGGING TO FIND THE CONTEXT.

ADAM: IF YOU WANT IT.

>> AND MOST PEOPLE DON’T.

SO THIS BECOMES THE NARRATIVE THAT IT’S NOT ABOUT THE MESSAGE BUT STUDENTS AGAINST THE UNIVERSITY OR STUDENTS AGAINST POLICE.

ADAM: DANIELLE BROWN ARGUES THAT COVERAGE OF PROTESTS TENDS TO FOCUS TOO MUCH ON SPECTACLE AND CONFRONTATION AND NOT ENOUGH SPECIFICALLY ON THE CAUSES AND GRIEVANCES THAT ARE ANIMATED THE PROTESTS THEMSELVES.

DO YOU THINK THAT’S A FAIR CRITIQUE?

>> I THINK THAT IS FAIR.

I AGREE WITH IT.

I WAS TEACHING A CLASS ON PROTESTS.

THE PROBLEM IS WE RUN INTO A PROTEST OR SOME ACTIVITY ON THE STREET.

WE WANT TO GET AS CLOSE TO THE ACTION.

THEN YOU START RUNNING FROM THAT ACTION BECAUSE TEARGAS IS BEING THROWN OR WHATEVER AND THEN YOU BECOME THE STORY.

I SAW IT RECENTLY THERE WAS AN ANCHOR SAYING, ARE YOU SAFE?

IF YOU FEEL AT ANY MOMENT YOU ARE NOT SAFE, RAISE YOUR HAND.

I’M NOT REALLY SURE WHAT THAT WOULD HAVE DONE.

ADAM: STRANGE THING TO SAY.

>> SO THEN YOU BECOME THE STORY.

YOU NEED TO BE COVERING A PROTEST BEFORE THE PROTEST HAPPENS.

YOU WANT TO TALK TO PEOPLE ABOUT THE ISSUES.

YOU WANT TO TALK TO MORE THAN JUST THE POLICE ABOUT WHAT IS EXPECTED TO HAPPEN THERE.

TO REALLY GET THE VOICES THAT UNDERSTAND WHAT’S HAPPENING, NOT JUST THE EMOTIONAL REACTION IN THAT MOMENT.

ADAM: THAT’S ANOTHER POINT THAT DANIELLE BROWN MADE.

THERE’S A LONG RUN UP IN WHICH YOU CAN BE DOING EXACTLY THAT KIND OF REPORTING.

TALKING TO PEOPLE ABOUT WHAT’S MOTIVATING THEM.

THE MEDIA QUANTITATIVELY SIMPLY WAITS UNTIL IT REACHES A CRISIS POINT.

THERE HAS BEEN CRITICISM OF THE PRESS FOR ACCEPTING THE NARRATIVE PUT FORWARD BY A LOT OF PEOPLE THAT THE PROTESTERS ARE BEING DRIVEN BY "OUTSIDE AGITATORS."

LET’S TAKE A LOOK AT A COUPLE EXAMPLES.

>> TELL US ABOUT THIS CHANGE.

-- SHANE -- CHAIN.

>> THIS IS NOT WHAT STUDENTS BRING TO SCHOOL.

THESE ARE HEAVY INDUSTRIAL CHAINS AND THIS IS WHAT WE ENCOUNTERED ON EVERY DOOR INSIDE OF HAMILTON HALL.

>> AT UCLA, THEY HAVE 48,000 STUDENTS.

WE ARE TALKING ABOUT A COUPLE HUNDRED.

SO LESS THAN 1%.

>> HOW MANY OF THEM ARE ACTUALLY STUDENTS?

>> A LOT OF THEM ARE NOT STUDENTS.

THEY CONCEAL THEIR FACES ENTIRELY SO YOU CAN’T TELL WHO’S AN OUTSIDE AGITATOR AND WHO IS ACTUAL STUDENT.

ADAM: IT WAS SUBSEQUENTLY NOTED ON TWITTER THAT THE CHAIN IS A BIKE LOCK THAT’S AVAILABLE AT A DISCOUNT.

>> YOU CAN ALSO BUY CHAIN AT ANY HARDWARE STORE AND BUY CLOCKS ARE ALSO EASILY AVAILABLE.

-- BIKE LOCKS ARE ALSO EASILY AVAILABLE.

ADAM: -- WHAT SHOULD WE CALL THEM?

>> I THINK IT DOES MATTER.

SOMETIMES WE FOCUS ON THAT BECAUSE IT’S EASY.

WE TEND TO THINK OF COLLEGE STUDENTS AS KIDS.

THEY ARE NOT.

THEY ARE ADULTS.

GRADUATE STUDENTS ARE EVEN OLDER THAN FRESHMEN AND SOPHOMORES.

THEY ARE FULLY CAPABLE OF DECIDING TO DO THINGS LIKE THIS AND EXECUTING ON THEIR PLANS.

FOCUSING ON OUTSIDE AGITATORS ALLOWS US AS PARENTS AND JOURNALISTS TO FEEL LIKE OUR GOOD KIDS WOULD NEVER DO SOMETHING LIKE THIS AND IT PUTS DISTANCE BETWEEN WHAT’S GOING ON AND MAKES IT EASIER TO IGNORE CONSEQUENCES.

I THINK IT’S IMPORTANT TO NOTE WHEN THERE ARE OUTSIDE AGITATORS BUT I ALSO THINK IT’S IMPORTANT TO NOTE THAT IN THE CLIP YOU JUST SHOWED, THEY ATTRIBUTED A LOT OF WHAT’S GOING ON OUTSIDE AGITATORS AND THEN ACKNOWLEDGE THAT THEY CAN’T TELL WHO’S WHO.

SO WHAT IS THERE PROOF?

SO I DO THINK IT’S IMPORTANT TO NOTE.

I THINK IT WOULD BE GOOD IF WE COULD FIGURE OUT WHAT ORGANIZATIONS ARE SUPPORTING THINGS.

MOST ORGANIZATIONS ON CAMPUSES ARE PART OF A NATIONAL ORGANIZATION OF SOME PART.

SO IT’S NOT UNUSUAL THAT OUTSIDERS, NONSTUDENTS WOULD BE INVOLVED.

I DON’T THINK IT’S RIGHT TO ASSIGN ALL OF THE RESPONSIBILITY FOR WHAT’S HAPPENING AND THEREFORE ALL OF THE CONSEQUENCE TO OUTSIDERS.

ADAM: IT IS SOMETHING MANY PROTESTERS TAKE ISSUE WITH BECAUSE IT SUGGESTS THEY DON’T HAVE AGENCY AND ARE NOT ACTUALLY PASSIONATE ABOUT THE CAUSE.

DO YOU HAVE A PROBLEM WITH THE TERM?

HISTORICALLY IT HAS BEEN USED TO DELEGITIMIZE PEOPLE WORKING FOR SOCIAL CHANGE.

MARTIN LUTHER KING WAS LABELED AN OUTSIDE AGITATOR.

>> I HAVE A PROBLEM WITH BROAD TERMS PERIOD.

ANY TIME WE FALL INTO COLLECTIVELY USING CERTAIN TERMS UNCOVERING CERTAIN KINDS OF STORIES OR WE FALL INTO PARROTING WHAT WE ARE TOLD BY LAW ENFORCEMENT AND OTHER OFFICIALS, THAT’S WHEN WE GET INTO TROUBLE.

I THINK THE BEST WAY TO AVOID ANY OF THESE ISSUES IS JUST CALL IT WHAT IT IS.

IF PEOPLE ARE PROTESTING, IT’S PROTESTERS.

IF HALF OF THEM ARE STUDENTS AND HALF OF THEM ARE OTHER PEOPLE, YOU SAY HALF OUR STUDENTS AND HALF ARE X. ADAM: AND PROVIDE AS MUCH INFORMATION AS YOU CAN ABOUT OTHER PEOPLE.

>> WE RUN INTO TROUBLE ANYTIME WE START ATTACHING LABELS BECAUSE PROTESTS ARE NEVER CLEAN.

YOU NEED TO BE VERY SPECIFIC WITH WHAT YOU ARE SEEING AND CALLING IT AS OPPOSED TO USING THE NAME LIKE OUTSIDE AGITATORS.

THE OTHER POINT I WOULD LIKE TO MAKE, I THINK ALL OF US HAVE BEEN COVERING PROTESTS SINCE DAY ONE.

I DON’T KNOW IF I HAVE EVER COVERED A PROTEST WHERE EVERYONE WAS WITH THE GROUP.

IF IT’S IN HIGH SCHOOL AND THEY ARE PROTESTING ABOUT TEACHERS, MAYBE IT’S JUST ALL HIGH SCHOOL STUDENTS ON CAMPUS.

BUT ANY MAJOR PROTEST THAT HAPPENS, YOU ALWAYS GET A LOT OF OTHER PEOPLE WHO JOIN.

SOMETIMES IT’S BECAUSE THEY BELIEVE IN WHAT YOU’RE DOING AND WANT TO SUPPORT IT AND OTHER TIMES THEY WANT TO USE THE SPOTLIGHT OF THAT MOMENT TO GET ATTENTION FOR SOMETHING ELSE.

I DON’T THINK THIS IS UNUSUAL.

THAT’S WHY NEWS ORGANIZATIONS NEED TO BE SMARTER IN THE LABELS THEY USE AROUND COVERAGE.

>> I THINK AGITATORS IS PARTICULARLY INFLAMMATORY BECAUSE IT IMPLIES THEY ARE JUST OUT THERE STIRRING THE POT.

THEY ARE JUST TRYING TO GET PEOPLE ANGRY.

ADAM: AS OPPOSED TO HAVING A GENUINE CONVICTION.

>> EXACTLY.

THE PEOPLE PROTESTING NOW, STUDENTS, COMMUNITY MEMBERS AND ORGANIZERS ALL HAVE REAL CONCERNS.

ADAM: I WANT TO ASK YOU ABOUT A POLL THAT CAME OUT THIS WEEK FROM AXIOS.

THEY ASKED COLLEGE STUDENTS ABOUT NINE DIFFERENT CONFLICTS.

THE ONE BETWEEN ISRAEL AND HAMAS RANKS AT THE BOTTOM.

THE POLL ALSO FOUND THAT JUST 8% OF COLLEGE STUDENTS HAD PARTICIPATED IN ANY TYPE OF PROTEST WHETHER IT WAS PRO-PALESTINIAN OR SOMETHING ELSE.

MIGHT THOSE NUMBERS SUGGEST THAT WE PULLED BACK A BIT MOVING FORWARD WHEN IT COMES TO COVERING THESE?

OR IS 8% SIGNIFICANT ENOUGH NUMBER.

IS THE ISSUE IMPORTANT ENOUGH THAT IN FACT WE SHOULD KEEP ON COVERING IT THE WAY WE HAVE BEEN.

>> WE SHOULDN’T DRIVE OUR COVERAGE BASED ON POLL NUMBERS.

I DO THINK IT’S GOOD TO PUT IT IN CONTEXT.

IF YOU ARE COVERING THIS AND GIVING EITHER THROUGH THE REPETITION OF THE COVERAGE OF SOMETHING OR THROUGH JUST THE PROMO MATERIAL THAT YOU USE AROUND IT, YOU HAVE TO MAKE SURE THAT YOU ARE GIVING THE FULL CONTEXT.

YES THERE ARE STUDENTS DOING THIS, BUT OTHER STUDENTS JUST WANT TO GRADUATE AND GO ON WITH THEIR LIVES.

THAT IS IMPORTANT TO KNOW.

I DON’T THINK WE SHOULD EVER LOOK AT THIS IS A SMALL THING THAT’S HAPPENING AND THEREFORE IT SHOULDN’T BE SOMETHING THAT WE STAY ON THE STORY.

I THINK A LOT OF BIG STORIES THAT WE COVER DON’T AFFECT THOUSANDS OF PEOPLE AND THEY ARE STILL IMPORTANT FOR US TO COVER.

WE SHOULDN’T BE GUIDED BY POLLS, BUT IT SHOULD BE SOMETHING THAT WE LOOK AT AND USE TO MAKE SURE WE ARE GIVING A BROADER SPECTRUM OF COVERAGE.

ADAM: DO YOU AGREE?

>> I SAY THIS ABOUT CLINICAL POLLS, POLLS ARE SNAPSHOTS IN TIME.

THEY ARE A SMALL RELATIVELY SPEAKING GROUP OF PEOPLE WHO RESPOND AND THAT RESPONSE IS EXTRAPOLATED TO APPLY TO A LARGE GROUP OF PEOPLE.

ADAM: GOOD REMINDER.

>> 8% OF RESPONDERS HAVE BEEN INVOLVED, IT DOESN’T MEAN 8% OF THE STUDENT BODY ACROSS AMERICA.

I ALSO THINK WE ARE FOCUSING A LOT ON ELITE INSTITUTIONS.

IN PLACES WHERE KIDS ARE RUSHING OFF -- I SAID KIDS AGAIN.

STUDENTS.

RUSHING OFF TO MAKE THIRD SHIFT BECAUSE THEY HAVE TO PAY THEIR MORTGAGE OR PICK THEIR KIDS UP FROM SCHOOL, THEY ARE NOT THE ONES IN THESE ENCAMPMENTS BY AND LARGE.

DOES THAT MEAN THEIR POINTS OF VIEW ON THIS DON’T EXIST?

NO.

I THINK THE PROTESTS COULD ALSO REPRESENT PEOPLE WHO ARE NOT ABLE OR PRIVILEGED ENOUGH TO BE SKIPPING CLASSES OR EXAMS OR STOPPING PROJECTS TO STOP AND AN ENCAMPMENT.

ADAM: THINK TANKS HAVE ALWAYS PLAYED A BIG ROLE IN MASSACHUSETTS POLITICS LIKE THE FISCALLY PROGRESSIVE MASS BUDGET AND POLICY CENTER.

BUT LATE LAST YEAR, A NEW THINK TANK ARRIVED ON THE SCENE, THE BOSTON POLICY INSTITUTE.

THEY MADE A BIG SPLASH WITH A REPORT SAYING DECLINE IN COMMERCIAL REAL ESTATE VALUES WILL POSE A PROBLEM FOR THE CITY.

THAT SPARKED A DEBATE WITH MORE ESTABLISHED PARTIES AND RAISED QUESTIONS ABOUT WHO IS FUNDING THE BOSTON POLICY INSTITUTE AND WHAT THE ORGANIZATIONS ULTIMATE GOALS ARE.

I’M JOINED BY A REPORTER WHO RECENTLY DUG INTO THOSE QUESTIONS ON THE SHADOWY THINK TANK FIGHTING BOSTON CITY HALL.

WHAT DO WE KNOW ABOUT THE BOSTON POLICY INSTITUTE AND WHAT DON’T WE KNOW?

>> A COUPLE OF THINGS.

THESE ARE TWO DEMOCRATIC POLITICAL CONSULTANTS WHO HAVE BEEN AROUND POLITICS FOR QUITE SOME TIME.

THEY HAVE WORKED IN LOCAL ELECTIONS IN UNDERGROUND BOSTON.

SHELDON WHITEHOUSE IN RHODE ISLAND.

THEY HAVE BOTH BEEN AROUND.

WHAT THEY HAVE SET UP AS A THINK TANK UNDER THE IRS DESIGNATION 501(C) FOUR WHICH ALLOWS THEM TO ESSENTIALLY NOT DISCLOSE WHO THEIR DONORS ARE.

I OBTAINED A COPY OF A PRESENTATION THEY WERE SHOPPING AROUND BEFORE THE 2023 ELECTIONS HOPING TO SET THIS UP AND BRING THAT KIND OF FRESH SCRUTINY TO CITY HALL.

AND THAT LACK OF DISCLOSURE OF DONORS WAS A KEY SELLING POINT IN THAT PRESENTATION.

ADAM: WHAT WAS THE ARGUMENT IN FAVOR OF LACK OF DISCLOSURE?

>> WHEN I TALKED TO MAYNARD BEFORE THE STORY, HE SAID THE BLOWBACK HE HAD SEEN FROM CITY HALL OVER THERE REPORT ABOUT OFFICE VALUES TO HIM THAT JUSTIFIED THE SECRECY.

HE ALSO TOUCHED ON SOMETHING THAT BOSTON CITY HALL HAS BEEN KNOWN FOR FOR DECADES GOING BACK TO A MAYOR SOMETIMES STRIKING OUT AT FOLKS WHO SPEAK UP.

SO THAT WAS HIS ARGUMENT.

ADAM: CAN YOU CHARACTERIZE THEIR POLITICS?

IF I RECALL CORRECTLY, THEY MIGHT HAVE MEANT WORKING ON ELIZABETH WARREN’S CAMPAIGN.

HOW WOULD YOU CHARACTERIZE THEIR POLITICS?

ARE THEY CENTRIST, LIBERAL, PROGRESSIVE?

>> I KIND OF LET PEOPLE LABELED THEMSELVES.

I DO THINK IT’S INTERESTING WE DID MEET MICHELLE WU ON THAT ELIZABETH WARREN 2012 CAMPAIGN WHICH IF YOU WERE WORKING IN DEMOCRATIC POLITICS IN 2012, YOU PROBABLY WERE WORKING ON THAT CAMPAIGN.

CERTAINLY THEY HAVE BEEN IN AND AROUND THE SAME ORBIT IN THE YEAR SINCE THE 2013 RACE THAT MARTY WALSH WON.

MAYNARD WORKED FOR BOTH DAN CONNOLLY AND JOHN CONNOLLY IN THE FINAL ELECTIONS.

IN TERMS OF THE POLITICS, YOU CAN TAKE A LOOK AT HOW THEY ARE HANDLING SOME OF THE ANALYSIS.

IN ONE CASE THEY DID ASK AN ANALYST FROM THE DEMOCRATS FOR EDUCATION REFORM TO TAKE A LOOK AT BOSTON PUBLIC SCHOOLS AND HOW IT’S HANDLING THE MEMORANDUM OF UNDERSTANDING WITH STATE EDUCATION OFFICIALS.

THAT MIGHT BE ONE INDICATION OF WHERE THEY’RE COMING FROM.

ADAM: WE WERE ON A PHONE CALL WHERE THEY TALKED ABOUT A NEW POLL THEY JUST STOOD LOOKING AT ISSUES FACING THE CITY.

THEY FOUND THAT PEOPLE REALLY LIKE THE QUALITY OF LIFE IN BOSTON BUT FEEL THAT ON CERTAIN ISSUES, THE CITY ISN’T DOING ENOUGH TO DO WORK THAT NEEDS TO BE DONE.

AFFORDABLE HOUSING, COST OF LIVING.

THE POLLSTER SHOWED SOME RATINGS THEY HAD OBTAINED FROM MICHELLE WU THAT SUGGESTED PEOPLE THOUGHT PRETTY HIGHLY OF THE JOB THAT SHE WAS DOING AS MAYOR.

IT TURNS OUT APPARENTLY BASED ON OUR INABILITY TO GET MORE DETAIL ON THOSE NUMBERS THAT THEY WERE RELEASED INADVERTENTLY.

WHY MIGHT AN ORGANIZATION PULL SOMETHING LIKE THAT BUT NOT PUT THOSE NUMBERS OUT THERE PUBLICLY ALONG WITH ALL THE OTHER DATA?

>> IT’S A VERY GOOD QUESTION.

WE SOUGHT THE DETAILS OF THOSE FAVORABLES WERE NOT THERE.

OVERALL, THE POLL WAS -- THERE WAS A LOT FOR THE MAYOR AND HER ADMINISTRATION TO LIKE IF THEY WERE GOING THROUGH ALL THE CROSSTABS AND EVERYTHING.

IT’S ONE OF THOSE THINGS OF DID THEY WANT TO FOCUS MORE ON POLICY VERSUS WHAT COULD BE DESCRIBED AS HORSERACE?

I’M NOT SURE.

COULD IT BE WITH THE DESIGNATION THROUGH THE IRS ABOUT WHERE THE LINE IS IN GETTING INVOLVED IN ELECTIONEERING.

THAT’S KIND OF A MYSTERY AT THIS POINT.

BUT IT DID COME OUT, IN RESPONSE TO A REPORTER’S QUESTION.

WE ALL STARTED SCRIBBLING VERY QUICKLY.

ADAM: WE BOTH THOUGHT THAT WAS THE MOST IMPORTANT THING.

I FOUND MYSELF WONDERING WHEN THEY WOULDN’T PUT THOSE NUMBERS OUT, LIKE THE FUNDING FOR BPI BECOMING FROM SOMEONE FUNDAMENTALLY ANTAGONISTIC TO THE MAYOR.

THE THERE HAS BEEN NO AD HOMINEM ATTACKS ON THE MAYOR LIKE YOU MIGHT GET WITH OTHER THINK TANKS THAT MIGHT GO AFTER PEOPLE IN A HIGHLY PERSONAL WAY.

THEY HAVEN’T BEEN DOING THAT WITH HER.

BUT IF THE INFORMATION IS RIGHT, DO YOU THINK IT MATTERS THAT THEY HAD MYSTERIOUS FUNDING OR A FUNDAMENTALLY CRITICAL SLANT?

IF THE DATE IS GOOD, IS IT ABLE TO STAND ON ITS OWN?

>> I’VE BEEN DOING THIS FOR 15 PLUS YEARS.

MORE INFORMATION IS A GOOD THING TO KNOW WHERE EVERYBODY IS COMING FROM.

CERTAINLY THE DATA ITSELF IS IMPORTANT BUT WHO IS PRESENTING THE DATA IS A FAIR QUESTION.

I’M NOT DISCLOSING THE DONOR CERTAINLY OPENS UP -- THEM NOT DISCLOSING A DONOR CERTAINLY OPENS THEM UP TO WHISPERS.

THERE HAS BEEN DISCUSSION OF EITHER POTENTIAL RIVALS HELPING THIS EFFORT.

CERTAINLY THERE’S QUESTIONS ABOUT WHETHER THERE ANY SORT OF GRUDGE MATCH BECAUSE GREG MAYNARD’S WIFE USED TO WORK FOR MICHELLE WU WHEN SHE WAS CITY COUNSELOR.

ADAM: WHEN THOSE NUMBERS WERE SHARED AND NOT FULLY SHARED, IT JUST ENHANCED THE QUESTIONS YOU JUST RAISED.

THANK YOU.

>> THANKS FOR HAVING ME.

ADAM: FINALLY TONIGHT.

GRADUATE WORKERS AT BOSTON UNIVERSITY ARE ON STRIKE DEMANDING BETTER PAY AFTER MONTHS OF FAILED NEGOTIATIONS WITH THE SCHOOL.

MORE THAN SIX WEEKS SINCE THEY FIRST WALKED OFF THE JOB.

A MEMBER OF THE BU GRAD WORKERS UNION JOINS US.

YOU ARE A FIFTH YEAR MECHANICAL ENGINEERING DOCTORAL STUDENT.

CAN YOU EXPLAIN WHAT THAT MEANS IN TERMS OF WORK YOU DO THAT IS NOT’S POKESTOPS -- THAT IS NOT FOCUSED SPECIFICALLY ON YOUR OWN STUDIES?

>> RESEARCH IN MY LAB, MANY OF MY COLLEAGUES ALSO COVER TEACHING.

THAT CAN INCLUDE TEACHING LECTURES, HOLDING LAB SESSIONS AND OFFICE HOURS FOR UNDERGRADS.

WE ALSO COVER COMMUNITY BUILDING EVENTS SUCH AS HOLDING CONFERENCES AND JOURNAL CLUBS AND OTHER ORGANIZATIONAL REQUESTS.

ANYTHING AND EVERYTHING IN BETWEEN THAT REALLY MAKES THE UNIVERSITY RUN, WE ARE THE COGS IN THE MACHINE.

ADAM: I WOULD GUESS IT VARIES FROM WEEK TO WEEK DEPENDING ON WHAT YOU ARE DOING.

COULD YOU OFFER AN ESTIMATE OF HOW MANY HOURS YOU SPEND ALTOGETHER WORKING?

>> THAT IS A GREAT QUESTION.

SOME PEOPLE WOULD PRESENT US AS PART-TIME WORKERS AND PART-TIME STUDENTS, BUT IN REALITY FOR MOST GRAD WORKERS, WE SPEND MORE THAN 40 HOURS A WEEK WORKING ON ANYTHING FROM RESEARCH TO EDUCATIONAL REQUIREMENTS TO TEACHING FOR THE UNIVERSITY.

ADAM: I KNOW THIS VARIES FROM STUDENT TO STUDENT, BUT WHAT ARE YOU PAID RIGHT NOW FOR THE WORK THAT YOU DO?

>> RIGHT NOW AS AN ENGINEER, I’M PAID $40,000 A YEAR AND THAT’S ON A 12 MONTH STIPEND.

A LOT OF MY COLLEAGUES ARE PAID ON NINE-MONTH STIPENDS.

ONLY ABOUT $28,000 A YEAR AND THERE CAN BE VARIATION IN BETWEEN 28000 AND 40,000.

LIVING IN BOSTON WHERE THE ANNUAL COST OF LIVING IS $62,000 A YEAR, FOR MANY OF US THAT IS UNSUSTAINABLE.

THAT HAS PLACED MANY OF US IN A POSITION WHERE WE ARE AT RISK OF BEING RENT BURDENED OR JUST NOT ABLE TO AFFORD BASIC GROCERIES OR MEDICAL REQUIREMENTS.

ADAM: TO THE EXTENT YOU CAN SUMMARIZE IT QUICKLY, WHAT ARE YOU SEEKING FROM THE ADMINISTRATION AND HOW CLOSE ARE THE UNION AND THE ADMINISTRATION TO FORMING SOME SORT OF DEAL?

>> WE ARE SEEKING SOME SORT OF CONTRACT, STIPEND OR LIVING WAGE THAT WILL ALLOW US TO LIVE AND WORK IN THE BOSTON AREA.

THAT INCLUDES A LIVING WAGE BASED OFF NUMBERS THAT CAN BE CALCULATED ON WHAT IT TAKES TO BE NOT RENT BURDENED IN BOSTON.

WE ARE ALSO SEEKING BASIC HEALTH CARE AND TRANSPORTATION BENEFITS.

AND A NUMBER OF OTHER COVERAGES AND BENEFITS THAT ARE ESSENTIAL TO OUR MEMBERSHIP.

SINCE WE STARTED THE STRIKE, THE PACE OF BARGAINING HAS PICKED UP.

PROPOSALS HAVEN’T COME CLOSE TO MEETING OUR DEMANDS.

WE ARE STILL VERY FAR FROM SUBSTANCE.

WE HAVE BEEN VERY DISAPPOINTED IN THE UNIVERSITY’S APPROACH.

THEY HAVE SPREAD CONFUSION AND CONFLICTING INFORMATION.

THEY HAVEN’T REALLY SOUGHT TO ADDRESS THE CORE DEMANDS IN OUR PROPOSAL.

ADAM: WE DID ASK THE ADMINISTRATION IF THEY COULD PROVIDE A GUEST.

THEY WERE NOT ABLE TO DO THAT, BUT THEY DID POINT US TO A PUBLIC STATEMENT BU HAD MADE.

ONE OF THE ASSERTIONS MADE IN THE PUBLIC STATEMENT IS THAT THE GRAD WORKERS UNION HAS BEEN SPREADING MISINFORMATION ABOUT THE IMPACT THE STRIKE HAS BEEN HAVING ON STUDENTS.

THE STATEMENT SAYS WE HAVE BY NECESSITY MADE CURRICULAR AND OTHER CHANGES IN SOME OF THESE CASES WHERE TEACHERS ASSISTANTS ARE STRIKING.

HOWEVER, CONTRARY TO THE UNION’S ASSERTIONS, WE WILL NOT HAVE PEOPLE WITHOUT APPROPRIATE TRAINING GRADE OUR STUDENTS.

UNION’S ASSERTION THAT WE WILL HAVE STUDENTS READ THEMSELVES IS A MISCHARACTERIZATION OF OUR RECOMMENDATION.

I GUESS THE QUESTION RAISED BY THAT IS HOW DISRUPTIVE WOULD YOU SAY THE STRIKE HAS BEEN TO STUDENTS?

>> WE HAVE MANY RESPONSIBILITIES SUCH AS RESEARCH AND TEACHING AND WE HAVE REALLY FOCUSED ON TEACHING ALTHOUGH SOME HAVE FOCUSED ON RESEARCH AS WELL.

THERE WERE STAGES OF THE STRIKE.

THERE WERE EMAILS SENT OUT BY ANOTHER DEAN SUGGESTING GENERATIVE AI COULD BE USED TO SUBSTITUTE GRADUATE LABOR.

FRANKLY, THAT’S INSULTING.

HAPHAZARD ATTEMPTS TO IMPLEMENT THINGS LIKE ASKING STUDENTS TO GRADE THEMSELVES OR THE IDEA OF UN GRADING WHICH I’M TOLD IS A COMPLEX PEDAGOGICAL INSTRUMENT, THAT TAKES TIME AND EFFORT.

AND THOUGHT.

TO IMPLEMENT ON A LEVEL THAT IS SATISFACTORY.

MANY OF MY PEERS AND COLLEAGUES HAVE SPENT A LONG TIME DEVELOPING ACTUAL PEDAGOGICAL INSTRUCTION FOR UNDERGRADS AND STUDENTS PAYING OVER $60,000 A YEAR IN TUITION DESERVE A REAL EDUCATION, NOT SOMETHING THEY COULD FIND ON CHATGPT.

ADAM: HE SAID THE TWO SIDES ARE VERY FAR APART IN THE UNION HAS BEEN DISMAYED AT WHAT WAS OFFERED.

WILL THIS STRIKE BE CONTINUING WHEN SCHOOL RESUMES NEXT FALL?

>> WE WILL CARRY OUT THE STRIKE AS LONG AS IT TAKES FOR US TO WIN A FAIR AND REASONABLE CONTRACT UNDER WHICH WE CAN LIVE AND WORK IN THE CITY OF BOSTON.

ADAM: THANK YOU FOR BEING HERE AND TALKING TO US.

I APPRECIATE IT.

THAT IS IT FOR TONIGHT.

COME BACK NEXT WEEK AND THANKS FOR WATCHING.

♪