>> Neisloss: TONIGHT ON "GREATER BOSTON," I'M LIZ NEISLOSS, IN FOR JIM BRAUDE, AND WITH THE WHITE HOUSE MARKING A MILLION COVID DEATHS, AND CASE NUMBERS ONCE AGAIN ON THE RISE-- WE'RE LOOKING AT WHERE THINGS STAND, AND WHAT WE CAN EXPECT IN THE DAYS, WEEKS AND MONTHS TO COME.

PLUS, A LOCAL DOCTOR ON HIS NEW BOOK, "SONG OF OUR SCARS," ABOUT WHY HE BELIEVES PAIN, ESPECIALLY CHRONIC PAIN, IS STILL SO MISUNDERSTOOD IN THE MEDICAL COMMUNITY.

THEN, LATER, 23 YEARS AGO, A WOMAN GAVE $100 TO TWO YOUNG REFUGEES SHE'D JUST MET ON A PLANE.

A FEW DAYS AGO, THEY WERE REUNITED AND JOIN US TO TALK ABOUT HOW THAT SINGLE ACT OF KINDNESS CHANGED ALL THEIR LIVES AHEAD.

♪ ♪ >> Neisloss: PRESIDENT BIDEN AND OTHER GLOBAL LEADERS GATHERED TOGETHER, VIRTUALLY, TODAY TO DISCUSS THE STATE OF COVID, MORE THAN TWO YEARS IN, AND HE MARKED A SOLEMN MOMENT FOR AMERICANS.

>> TODAY, WE MARK A TRAGIC MILESTONE HERE IN THE UNITED STATES.

1 MILLION COVID DEATHS.

1 MILLION EMPTY CHAIRS AROUND THE FAMILY DINNER TABLE.

>> Neisloss: IT'S A MILESTONE WE ONCE SAW AS UNIMAGINABLE, AND AS DR. ANTHONY FAUCI SAID ON "BOSTON PUBLIC RADIO" THIS WEEK, THE WHITE HOUSE IS HOPING TO STOP THE CONTINUING CLIMB.

>> HOPEFULLY, THE ENORMITY OF THAT NUMBER WOULD SPUR US ON TO DO WHATEVER WE CAN TO MAKE SURE THAT WE DON'T HAVE AS BAD A TIME IN THE COMING MONTHS AND YEARS.

>> Neisloss: BUT, THE CURRENT REALITY IS, CASE NUMBERS ARE RISING AGAIN NATIONALLY, AND HERE IN MASSACHUSETTS, WE'VE BEEN SEEING AN INCREASE IN BOTH CASES AND HOSPITALIZATIONS FOR WEEKS, LEADING SOME TO RECONSIDER THOSE MITIGATION EFFORTS WE'VE DROPPED IN RECENT MONTHS.

SO WHERE ARE WE NOW, WITH THE STATE OF COVID, AND WHAT'S LIKELY AHEAD?

I'M JOINED BY DR. SABRINA ASSOUMOU, ASSISTANT PROFESSOR OF MEDICINE AT BOSTON UNIVERSITY SCHOOL OF MEDICINE AND AN INFECTIOUS DISEASES ATTENDING PHYSICIAN AT BOSTON MEDICAL CENTER.

DR. ASSOUMOU, THANK YOU VERY MUCH FOR JOINING US.

A FEW WEEKS AGO YOU SAID WE WERE AT SOMEWHAT OF A PRECARIOUS MOMENT, STUDENTS WERE COMING BACK FROM BREAKS, AND NOW, THEY ARE IN SCHOOL, WE'RE SEEING CASES RISE, HOW DO YOU INTERPRET WHAT'S UNFOLDING RIGHT NOW?

>> THANK YOU FOR HAVING ME ON AGAIN.

UNFORTUNATELY, WE ARE BACK HERE AGAIN AT A TIME WHEN CASES ARE RISING.

AND, YOU KNOW, IF YOU LOOK AT ALL THE INDICES, IF YOU LOOK AT THE WASTE WATER, NUMBER OF CASES, THE TEST POT POT POSITIVITY, THE CASE RATE IS OVER 10%.

OTHER THAN 5% THERE IS A LOT OF COVID.

UNFORTUNATELY THERE ARE A LOT OF CASES OF COVID IN THE COMMUNITY.

>> Neisloss: WHAT SORT OF RELIABILITY ARE WE SUPPOSED TO TAKE FOR TESTING?

I PERSONALLY I HAVE FAMILY MEMBERS, FRIENDS NOT JUST IN MASSACHUSETTS BUT IN NEIGHBORING STATES WHO ARE HAVING, YOU KNOW, MULTIPLE BREAK THROUGH CASES.

SO EVEN ANECDOTALLY YOU HAVE THIS SENSE THAT THERE'S A LOT MORE GOING ON THAN IS BEING REPORTED.

SO HOW MUCH FAITH SHOULD WE EVEN PUT IN WHAT'S BEING REPORTED RIGHT NOW?

>> I KNOW THE POINT YOU ARE MAKING ABOUT TESTING IS ACTUALLY REALLY CORRECT IN THE SENSE THAT WE ARE MISSING A LOT OF CASES.

A LOT OF CASES ARE NOT BEING REPORTED BECAUSE THEY ARE BEING DONE AT HOME THROUGH RAPID TESTING.

THAT'S A GOOD NEWS, I WANT TO KNOW THEIR STATUS SO THEY WILL ISOLATE.

UNFORTUNATELY HE WE'RE NOT REPORTING THOSE CASES, BUT FORTUNATELY WE HAVE OTHER TOOLS.

WASTE WATER, DOESN'T DEPEND ON PEOPLE ACTUALLY GETTING TESTED.

AND SO AT A POINT WHERE WE COULD USE A LOT OF DIFFERENTIAL, YOU COULD USE WASTE WATER, WHAT ARE HOSPITALIZATIONS ARE DOING, WE COULD USE DEATHS TO KIND OF FIGURE OUT WHERE WE ARE GOING RIGHT NOW.

>> Neisloss: IN THE PAST SEVEN WEEKS WE HAVE HAD CASES RISE WITHIN STUDENTS AND TEACHERS, AND WE HAVE A MIXED PICTURE OF WEARING MASKS.

THERE ARE A L HALF DOZEN MUNICIPALITIES THAT SAY WEAR MASKS IN SCHOOLS ONCE AGAIN.

WHAT IS TO BE DONE?

IS IT TOO QUOOUCHG, SHOULD WE BE DOING THIS UNIFORMLY, IS IN SORT OF PATCH WORK APPROACH THE RIGHT WAY TO DO THINGS?

>> IT IS A GROUP TROUBLE, GETTING DIFFERENT MUNICIPALITIES DOING DIFFERENT THINGS.

WHERE ARE WE IN THIS PANDEMIC?

WE HAVE LEARNED A LOT.

WE HAVE A LOT OF TOOLS.

WE ACTUALLY HAVE VACCINES.

THERE WAS A POINT IF YOU TALKED TO ME IN NOVEMBER 2020 BEFORE WE HAD VACCINES I WOULD HAVE TOLD YOU EARLY ON WE WEREN'T EVEN SURE WE WOULD GET SOMETHING THAT WOULD WORK.

WE HAVE VACCINES THAT WORK, TESTING AS YOU MENTIONED EARLIER, WE KNOW THAT HIGH QUALITY MASKING THAT WORKS AND OUTPATIENT TREATMENTS THAT ALSO WORK.

THE WAY I LIKE TO THINK ABOUT IT IS YOU KNOW WHEN CASES START RISING LIKE RIGHT NOW IT IS EVEN MORE IMPORTANT TO USE THE LAYERED APPROACH.

WE CONTINUE TO RECOMMEND THAT PEOPLE GET VACCINATED.

WE ALSO RECOMMEND THAT PEOPLE WEAR HIGH QUALITY MASKING IN INDOOR SETTING.

I KNOW PEOPLE DON'T WANT TO HEAR THIS BUT AT A TIME WHEN CASES ARE RISING, IT IS REALLY KEY THAT WE USE ALL THE TOOLS IN OUR TOOL BOX INCLUDING MASKING IN INDOOR SETTINGS.

>> Neisloss: SPEAKING ABOUT VACCINATIONS WE HAVE NUMBERS OF TO PUT UP IN VACCINATIONS AND BOOSTERS.

IN THE UNITED STATES, PEOPLE ARE FULLY VACCINATED, IN MASSACHUSETTS A LITTLE BIT BETTER, 44%.

BUT ARE WE AT A POINT WHERE THE MESSAGING ABOUT BOOSTERS NEEDS TO BE MUCH STRONGER?

ILL FEELS LIKE IF IMMUNITY WANES AFTER THE BOOSTERS WE'RE JUST ON THE EDGE OF YET ANOTHER CLIFF IF THAT MESSAGE SORT OF DISAPPEARS.

>> YES, I KNOW THIS IS A VERY IMPORTANT POINT.

WHAT WE'VE LEARNED IS THAT ACTUALLY IF THAT BOOSTER, IF YOU ARE ELIGIBLE FOR THAT BOOSTER, THAT BOOSTER IS NOT LIKE AN EXTRA BOOST.

WHEN WE SAY THAT TWO DOSES ARE FULLY VACCINATED, WHAT WE HAVE LEARNED IS THAT BOOSTER DOSE IS ACTUALLY CURRICULUM TO PROVIDING HIGH LEVEL PROTECTION ESPECIALLY WITH OMICRON AND ESPECIALLY WHEN WE SEE IN WINNING IMMOOUNS.

WHEN IT'S TIME FOR REBOOT WE REALLY KNOW THAT BOOSTING IS CRITICAL TO GET US TO THE OTHER SIDE.

IF YOU ARE ELIGIBLE FOR BOOSTER PLEASE GET BOOSTED.

>> Neisloss: WHAT SHOULD WE BE FOCUSED ON NOW WHEN IT COMMENTS TO OUR ATTITUDES TOWARDS COVID?

IT IS UNDERSTANDABLE PEOPLE RELAX, YOU HAVE NICE WEATHER COMING, WE KNOW A LOT ABOUT THIS VIRUS NOW, IF I GET IT THE CASES SEEM TO BE MILDER, THE HOSPITALIZATIONS MAYBE NOT AS SEVERE, WHAT ARE WE REALLY RISKING IN THIS PICTURE?

IS IT REALLY WE SHOULD REALLY FOCUS AGAIN ON SUBVARIANTS, ON NEW VARIANTS, ON LONG COVID?

SHOULD WE STILL BE FOCUSED ON THOSE THINGS?

>> YEAH, I KNOW THERE'S STILL SO MUCH THAT WE DON'T KNOW.

AND IT IS TRUE THAT WHAT WE'RE FORTUNATE ABOUT IS THAT THE VACCINES HAVE ALLOWED US TO TURN SOMETHING THAT USED TO BE SO DEADLY.

AND IF YOU TALK TO ME IN THE SPRING OF 2020, WE HAD NOTHING AND WE DIDN'T HAVE VACCINES, WE DIDN'T HAVE APPROPRIATE TREATMENT.

SO ALL THE TECHNOLOGY THAT WE HAVE AS TRANSFORMED SOMETHING DEADLY INTO SOMETHING THAT WAS MANAGEABLE, IF SOMEBODY HAS A COVID INFECTION AFTER BEING VACCINATED OR BOOSTED AND THEY HAVE MILD SYMPTOMS, IT IS SORT OF A WIN.

VACCINES ACTUALLY WORK AND THE WAY TO GET OUT OF THIS PANDEMIC IS TO CONTINUING TO VACCINATE AND BOOST AS MANY PEOPLE AS POSSIBLE.

AND THE SECOND MESSAGE IS, WHEN CASES START GOING UP LIKE THEY ARE NOW, WE NEED TO EMPHASIZE THE APPROACH EVER USING A LAYERED APPROACH.

WE CAN'T JUST RELY ON VACCINES, WE HAVE TO RELY ON HIGH QUALITY MASKING IN INDOOR SETTINGS, TESTING AND USING PRETTY MUCH ALL THE TOOLS WE HAVE SO WE CAN GET OVER THIS TIME PERIOD WHEN THERE ARE A LOT OF CASES SO WE CAN TRY TO RELAX SOME OF THOSE MEASURES.

I GUESS MY OTHER MESSAGE IS PANDEMICS END.

THIS ONE WILL END TOO.

BUT THE WAY THAT IT ENDS IS IT WOULD ACTUALLY WILL END WHEN WE DECIDE THAT WE'RE GOING TO USE ALL THOSE TOOLS AND CONTINUE TO USE THEM SO WE CAN GET OUR CASES REALLY LOW SO THAT WE CAN GET NOT NEXT NORMAL.

>> Neisloss: I THINK WE HAVE A BATTLE RIGHT NOW WITH FATIGUE AS WE TALK ABOUT WHAT'S HAPPENING NOW, A BOOST, A SURGE THAT MAY HAPPEN AGAIN IN THE FALL.

RECENTLY, THERE WAS A FLURRY OF ATTENTION ON P-AXLOVID AS A TREATMENT.

A LOT OF PEOPLE WERE SAYING THIS SHOULD HAVE BEEN REALLY PUBLICIZED MUCH MORE BUT NOW WE'RE SEEING STORIES ABOUT THE TREATMENT AFTER THIS TREATMENT SEEING REBOUND CASES.

HOW SHOULD PEOPLE VIEW THIS TREATMENT RIGHT NOW?

SHOULD THEY WORRY ABOUT THAT?

>> SO I -- YOU KNOW AS SOMEONE WHO'S LOOKED AT THE DATA AND ACTUALLY AS SOMEONE WHO WAS A CLINICIAN IN THE BEGINNING WHEN WE HAD NOTHING, PAXLOVID IS A PHENOMENAL MEDICATION, TO HAVE A DRUG THAT YOU CAN GIVE TO SOMEONE WHO IS AT HIGH RISK AND DECREASE THEIR CHANCES OF NEEDING TO BE HOSPITALIZED BY NEITHER 90% THAT'S PHENOMENAL.

SO WE NEED TO USE IT AS MUCH AS POSSIBLE SO WE CAN PREVENT PEOPLE FROM NEEDING TO BE HOSPITALIZED.

WHAT WE'RE SEEING IS WHAT LOOKS RIGHT NOW LIKE THE RARE CASES.

AS LITTLE AS 2% OF PEOPLE WHO GET REGRESSIONS OF SYMPTOMS.

WE DON'T REALLY UNDERSTAND WHAT'S HAPPENING THERE, WE'RE TRYING TO UNDERSTAND IT.

BUT IT IS A VERY SAFE MEDICATION, AND IF YOU ARE ELIGIBLE, PLEASE DON'T HESITATE, TAKE IT, BECAUSE IT REALLY, IN THE CLINICAL TRIALS AND WHAT WE'RE SEEING IN THE FIELD IT IS REALLY A DRUG THAT WORKS VERY WELL.

>> Neisloss: DR. SABRINA ASSOUMOU, THANKS SO MUCH FOR PUTTING THAT INTO PERSPECTIVE.

>> THANK YOU FOR HAVING ME ON.

>> Neisloss: PAIN IS A BIG PART OF THE HUMAN EXPERIENCE.

BUT IT'S ALSO EXTREMELY COMPLEX, AND FOR AN ESTIMATED 50 MILLION ADULTS IN THE U.S.

LIVING WITH CHRONIC PAIN, IT'S CONSUMING, AS IS TOLD IN THE NEW BOOK, "THE SONG OF OUR SCARS: THE UNTOLD STORY OF PAIN."

THE AUTHOR IS DR. HAIDER WARRAICH, WHO JOINS ME NOW.

HE'S ALSO A PHYSICIAN AT THE V.A.

BOSTON HEALTHCARE SYSTEM AND BRIGHAM AND WOMEN'S HOSPITAL, AS WELL AS AN ASSISTANT PROFESSOR AT HARVARD MEDICAL SCHOOL.

DR. WARRAICH, THANK YOU SO MUCH.

YOU CAME TO WRITE THIS BOOK OUT OF YOUR OWNING PERSONAL EXPERIENCE.

YOU WERE EXERCISING WHILE YOU WERE IN MEDICAL SCHOOL AND WEIGHTS FELL ON YOU, AND YOU -- YOU I BELIEVE YOU INJURED A DISK, YOU RUPTURED A DISK IN YOUR SPINE AND THAT SENT YOU ON A PATH OF CHRONIC PAIN.

HAVE I SUMMARIZED THAT ACCURATELY?

>> VERY ACCURATELY.

AND I'LL TAKE IT FROM THERE.

I WAS A YOU KNOW YOUNG MEDICAL ANTENNASTUDENT WHO THOUGHT I WAS INVINCIBLE AND IMMORTAL?

WHO HAD GOTTEN HURT BEFORE LIKE SO MANY OF US HAVE.

BUT BEFORE THIS, EVERY TIME I'D GOTTEN HURT I'D GOTTEN BETTER.

EVEN IF I HAD PAIN, FOR DAYS OR WEEKS, IT WENT AWAY.

BUTTER THIS TIME WHEN I HURT MY BACK, THOSE DAYS BECAME WEEKS AND WEEKS BECAME YEARS.

AND MY ENTIRE LIFE CHANGED, IN A WAY THAT I COULD KNOW NEVER HAVE IMAGINED.

ALL THE DREAMS THAT I'D HAD OF EVEN BECOMING A PHYSICIAN SEEMED TO BE SLIPPING AWAY FROM MY GRASP.

AND EVENTUALLY THOUGH I GOT BETTER AFTER A WHILE I REALIZED THAT WHILE MY STORY WAS IMPORTANT, THERE WAS A MUCH BIGGER STORY TO BE TOLD AND THAT IS THE STORY OF PEOPLE IN PAIN AND OF PAIN ITSELF.

>> Neisloss: SO YOUR BOOK DIVES INTO THE HISTORY OF PAIN THE BIOLOGY OF PAIN THE MANAGEMENT OF PAIN.

WHY DO YOU SAY THE EXPERIENCE OF PAIN SAVED MY LIFE?

>> WELL, IN A WAY, IT SAVED MY LIFE BECAUSE I, BEFORE THAT, I HAD NO SENSE OF WHAT REAL SUFFERING CAN BE.

AND IN A WAY THAT IS SO CENTRAL TO KNOWING THAT, AS A PHYSICIAN, AS A PHYSICIAN WE ARE FACED WITH SUFFERING ALL THE TIME.

AND IT'S TOO OFTEN PHYSICIANS AND NURSES AND OTHER CLINICIANS HAVE NO EXPERIENCE OF THAT TYPE OF ILLNESS THAT THEY'RE TREATING THEMSELVES.

IT'S ALMOST LIKE THEY ARE CHEFS AT A RESTAURANT BUT THEY HAVE NEVER TASTED THE FOOD.

>> Neisloss: AND THAT IS ONE OF MY FAVORITE QUOTES IN THE BOOK I HAVE TO TELL YOU.

I SORT OF STOPPED AT THAT AND I DO WANT YOU TO DIVE MORE INTO THAT.

WHAT DOES THAT MEAN WE SHOULD BE DOING?

I MEAN THE ONCOLOGIST SHOULD HAVE CANCER OR MAYBE I'M TAKING IT TOO LITERALLY BUT -- >> IT IS UNFORTUNATE BUT SOMETIMES IT TAKES EXPERIENCING SOMETHING TO GET THE FULL DIMENSION OF IT.

I DON'T THINK THAT -- I'M A CARDIOLOGIST AND I DON'T NEED TO HAVE A HEART ATTACK TO BEST TREAT PATIENTS WHO COME IN WITH HEART ATTACKS.

IF YOU ARE AN ONCOLOGIST YOU DON'T HAVE TO HAVE THE EXPERIENCE TO PICK THE BEST TREATMENT FOR YOUR PATIENTS.

BUT I THINK FOR PAIN BECAUSE IT IS SO SUBJECTIVE BECAUSE IT IS SOMETHING THAT CAN BE SO ESSENTIALIZING AND BECAUSE IT IS A PHENOMENON THAT WE REALLY DON'T UNDERSTAND, AS WELL AS WE DO THINGS LIKE HEART DISEASE AND CANCER THAT I DO THINK THAT MY BRUSH WITH PAIN, MORE THAN A BRUSH WITH PAIN, DID CHANGE ME IN SOME WAYS FOR THE BETTER.

BECAUSE IT GAVE ME A WINDOW INTO THE SUFFERING OF OTHERS THAT I JUST DIDN'T HAVE BEFORE.

AND WHAT I WANT TO DO THROUGH THIS BOOK IS MAKE SURE THAT OTHERS DON'T HAVE TO UNDERGO SOMETHING THAT I DID, TO HAVE THE SIMILAR PERSPECTIVE AND TREAT SOMEONE WHO HAS PAIN.

>> Neisloss: SO YOU HAVE A PRETTY DAMNING VIEW OF THE WAY THIS COUNTRY TREATS PAIN.

YOU SAY THAT DRUGS ARE INEFFECTIVE FOR CHRONIC PAIN.

YOU SAY WE FOCUS TOO MUCH ON COMPLETELY ELIMINATING PAIN.

CAN YOU ELABORATE?

WHAT IS WRONG WITH THE SYSTEM?

>> WHERE DO I BEGIN?

I THINK ONE OF THE THINGS THAT IS -- BECAME VERY CLEAR TO ME, THAT I DIDN'T KNOW EVEN THOUGH I TREAT PATIENTS WITH PAIN ALL THE TIME AND I HAVE HAD PAIN MYSELF, WAS THAT CHRONIC PAIN WHICH IS ACTUALLY A VERY DIFFERENT THING FROM ACUTE PAIN.

ACUTE PAIN MAY BE SOMETHING YOU HAVE AFTER YOU BREAK YOUR ARM OR BRUISE YOUR RIBS.

BUT CHRONIC PAIN IS SOMETHING THAT ONE IN FIVE AMERICANS AND PEOPLE AROUND THE WORLD LIVE WITH, IS A VERY, VERY DIFFERENT PROCESS AND MANY THINGS THAT WORK FOR ACUTE PAIN QUITE WELL ARE NOT THAT EFFECTIVE FOR CHRONIC PAIN.

THE EXAMPLE THAT COMES TO MIND ARE FOR EXAMPLE OPIOIDS.

OPIOIDS ARE POWERFUL PAINKILLERS THAT ARE SOME OF THE BEST THERAPIES WE HAVE FOR ACUTE PAIN AND YET WHEN IT COMES TO CHRONIC PAIN EVEN THOUGH THEY HELP SOME PATIENTS THE BEST STUDIES SUGGEST AND ARE REAL THAT IN MOST CASES THEY ACTUALLY INCREASE HOW MUCH PAIN PEOPLE HAVE OVER TIME.

AND TO ME, THIS IS THE -- YOU KNOW, THERE HAS BEEN SO MUCH TALK ABOUT THE OPIOID EPIDEMIC.

BUT WHAT WE HAVEN'T TALKED ABOUT IS HOW WE GOT HERE AND WHAT IS NEXT ESPECIALLY FOR PEOPLE WHO LIVE WITH PAIN AND HOW BEST WE CAN TREAT THEM.

AND ONE OF THE OTHER ISSUES WITH OUR HEALTH SYSTEM IS THAT IT HAS BECOME UNFORTUNATELY SO FOCUSED ON PROFITS AND EFFICIENCY, THAT THE HUMAN ELEMENT WHICH IS SO CRITICAL FOR THE PERSON IN PAIN, HAS GONE ALTOGETHER MISSING.

AND I THINK FOR US TO BE ABLE TO TREAT THE PERSON IN PAIN BETTER, TO UNDERSTAND PAIN BETTER, WE REALLY NEED TO MAKE SURE THAT PATIENT CENTEREDNESS IS NOT SOMETHING WE CAN PUT ON A BILLBOARD BUT SOMETHING WE CAN INTEGRATE INTO OUR HEALTH SYSTEM.

>> Neisloss: IS THAT ABOUT TALKING ABOUT EMPATHY MORE IN MEDICAL SCHOOL, WHAT IS IT YOU ARE SUGGESTING?

TAKING POWER, MOVING IT FROM PHARMACEUTICAL COMPANIES, THAT'S A PRETTY BIG ASK.

>> WELL SO EMPATHY IS SOMETHING THAT HAS BEEN SHOWN IN FACT TO BE EXTREMELY EFFECTIVE AND IT COMES TO HELPING PEOPLE HEAL FROM PAIN.

IN FACT, EMPATHY IS THE REASON WHY PEOPLE EXPERIENCE THE FACTOR, THIS IDEA THAT SOMEONE CARES ABOUT THEM AND THE HOPE THAT THEY WILL FEEL BETTER IS REALLY CENTRAL TO OUR BODY'S OWN ABILITY TO PROVIDE ITS PAIN RELIEF.

BUT IT'S NOT -- BUT THE INTERPERSONAL EMPATHY IS NOT GOING TO BE ENOUGH.

OUR HEALTH SYSTEM BECAUSE IT PRIZES PROFITABLE PROCEDURES OR THINGS THAT WE CAN DO FAST LIKE PRESCRIPTIONS, ENSURES ESSENTIALLY THAT WE JUST NEVER GET TIME TO SPEND WITH PATIENTS IN THE CLINIC OR IN THE HOSPITAL.

THE FIRST THING PHYSICIANS NEED AND NURSES NEED IS MORE TIME TO SPEND WITH THEIR PATIENTS BECAUSE JUST THE ACT OF TELLING THEIR STORY CAN BE SOMETHING TO HEAL THE PERSON WHO SUFFERS.

BUT THE OTHER THING IS THAT WE ACTUALLY KNOW THAT THERE ARE SO MANY OTHER THERAPIES, THAT ARE EXTREMELY EFFECTIVE FOR PEOPLE IN CHRONIC PAIN AND THAT IS WHAT WE NEED TO DO IS THAT WE NEED TO INCREASE HOW MUCH ACCESS PATIENTS OF CHRONIC PAIN HAVE TO ALL THESE ALTERNATIVE THERAPIES THAT WE JUST HAVEN'T PROVIDED SO FAR.

>> Neisloss: I DO WANT TO ASK YOU ABOUT THOSE BECAUSE YOU TALK VERY SPECIFICALLY ABOUT CERTAIN THINGS.

YOU TALK ABOUT SOMETHING CALLED PAIN ACCEPTANCE THERAPY WHICH TO SOME PEOPLE MADE SOUND LIKE GIVING UP, COUNSELING YOU TO TURN AWAY FROM POTENTIAL OPTIONS.

CAN YOU EXPLAIN WHAT THAT MEANS, PAIN ACCEPTANCE THERAPY?

>> SURE.

ONE OF THE THINGS THAT PAIN DOES IS THAT PAIN HAS THE LOUDEST ALARM THAT CAN GO OFF IN OUR BODIES.

AS SOON AS WE EXPERIENCE PAIN WE WANT TO MAKE SURE WE CAN ELIMINATE IT AT ALL POINTS.

THAT'S WHAT I FELT WHEN I WAS IN PAIN.

MY MAIN FOCUS WAS TO ENSURE THAT I WAS NEVER IN PAIN.

WHEN MY FRIENDS WOULD GO OUT FOR BIRTHDAY PARTIES OR DINNERS, I WOULD RATHER STAY IN MY BED, IN MY DORM ROOM BECAUSE I JUST COULDN'T BEAR THE PAIN OF JUST GETTING IN THE CAR OR BEING AROUND OTHER PEOPLE WHO SEEMED TO BE DOING JUST FINE.

BUT WHAT PAIN ACCEPTANCE DOES AND IT'S NOT THE SAME AS RESIGNATION, WHAT PAIN ACCEPTANCE DOES IS IT SHIFTS THE PERSON'S FOCUS NOT SO MUCH FOR TRYING TO CONTROL THE PAIN AT ALL POINTS BUT TO MAXIMIZING HOW THEY LIVE THEIR LIFE.

SO WHAT THAT ESSENTIALLY WOULD MEAN FOR SOMEONE LIKE ME WHEN I WAS SUFFERING WAS SOMEONE WOULD TALK TO ME AND TELL ME THAT EVEN THOUGH IT MIGHT HURT TO BE IN THAT CAR, EVEN THOUGH IT MIGHT HURT TO BE AT THAT BIRTHDAY PARTY THAT I SHOULD NOT LIMIT MY LIFE JUST SO THAT I CAN STAY PAIN FREE.

BUT THE OTHER THING THAT EVEN NEWER FORMS OF THERAPY SUCH AS PAIN REPROCESSING THERAPY ARE DOING FOR PERSONS WITH CHRONIC PAIN IS THEY ARE TAKING THE FEAR AWAY FROM PEOPLE IN PAIN.

FOR MANY PEOPLE WITH CHRONIC PAIN THE STRONGEST EMOTION THAT PAIN EXPRESSES IS, WOULD I PARALYZE MYSELF, WOULD I SPLICE MY SPINE IN HALF?

>> Neisloss: RIGHT SO -- >> AND PAIN REPROCESSING TAKES THAT AWAY FROM PATIENTS.

>> Neisloss: OKAY UNFORTUNATELY WE HAVE TO WRAP IT UP BUT I DO WANT TO POINT OUT DOCTOR THAT YOU UNDERLINE THE ROLE OF EXERCISE AS SOMETHING WHICH NEEDS TO BE FOCUSED ON MORE TO RELIEVE PAIN, YOU TALK ABOUT SOMETHING FASCINATING CALLED THE OPEN LABEL PLACEBO EFFECT WHICH ESSENTIALLY A DOCTOR CAN GIVE YOU A PLACEBO, TELL YOU IT'S A PLACEBO IT STILL HAS A EFFECT.

THERE IS A LOT MORE IN YOUR BOOK.

DR.

HEARTH WARRAICH THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR BEING HERE.

>> THANK YOU FOR HAVING ME.

THE BOOK AGAIN IS "THE SONG OF OUR SCARS: THE UNTOLD STORY OF PAIN."

NEXT UP, 23 YEARS AGO, SISTERS AYDA ZUGAY AND VANJA CONTINO WERE ON A PLANE TO THE U.S., HAVING FLED THE FORMER YUGOSLAVIA AS REFUGEES.

THE WOMAN SITTING NEXT TO THEM, WHO THEY'D NEVER MET, TOOK NOTE OF HOW YOUNG AND FRIGHTENED THE GIRLS LOOKED, AND ENDED UP HANDING THEM A HANDWRITTEN NOTE WITH A $100 BILL INSIDE, WITH THE IDEA OF HELPING THEM TO START THEIR NEW LIFE IN A NEW COUNTRY.

ZUGAY HAS SINCE SETTLED IN BOSTON, BUT SHE NEVER FORGOT ABOUT THAT WOMAN AND HAS PERIODICALLY TRIED TO FIND HER-- MOST RECENTLY, A FEW WEEKS BACK.

AND THIS TIME, THE INTERNET ROSE TO THE CHALLENGE.

JUST A FEW DAYS AGO, ZUGAY REUNITED WITH TRACY PECK OVER ZOOM, AND THEY BOTH JOIN ME VIA ZOOM NOW.

AYDA, TRACY, VERY NICE TO SEE YOU BOTH.

>> THANK YOU.

>> THANK YOU FOR HAVING US.

>> Neisloss: TELL ME, WHAT WAS IT LIKE WHEN YOU SAW EACH OTHER GEG, AYDA CAN YOU TELL ME?

>> YES, OF COURSE FM I WAS SO OVERWHELMED AND ALSO REALLY TOUCHED BY THIS AMAZING PERSON THAT ALMOST IMMEDIATELY JUST SPOKE WITH JOY AND TRACY ENDED UP BEING SO FAR BEYOND WHAT I EVER IMAGINED.

AND I REMEMBER.

AND IT WAS JUST SO TOUCHING THAT SHE REMEMBERED, YOU KNOW, EVERY DETAIL.

AND JUST REMEMBERED US AND JUST FEELING HER WARMTH AND JOY WAS JUST REALLY OVERWHELMING AND REALLY TOUCHING.

>> Neisloss: TRACY WAS THIS SOMETHING THAT YOU THOUGHT ABOUT A LOT OVER THE YEARS?

>> NO.

ACTUALLY NOT.

I WAS RETURNING HAVE A TRIP TO PARIS.

I'M A TENNIS PLAYER.

AND WE HAD GONE THERE TO PLAY TENNIS AND ATTEND THE FRENCH OPEN AND WAS ON THE PLANE SITTING NEXT TO THESE LITTLE YOUNG GIRLS AND THEY WERE TEMG ME THEIR STORY OF HOW THEIR PARENTS HAD TO PUT THEM ON A PLANE TO GET OUT OF YUGOSLAVIA FOR THEIR SAFETY AND SENT THEM TO AMERICA.

AND THEY DIDN'T KNOW WHERE THEY WERE GOING AND THEY WERE FRIGHTENED AND MY HEART JUST WENT OUT TO THEM.

I WAS JUST SO OVERWHELMED ABOUT THEIR STORY.

I'M A MOTHER MYSELF OF FIVE CHILDREN AND SEVEN GRAND KIDS AND I WAS OVERWHELMED THAT THOSE POOR PARENTS HAD TO DO SOMETHING LIKE THAT.

AND SO I JUST OPENED MY PURSE WHEN IT GOT TIME TO LEAVE AND THOUGHT I HAVE TO HELP THEM IN SOME WAY.

SO -- >> Neisloss: AND IN SOME REPORTING I HEARD YOU DROPPED A PAIR OF DANGLY EARRINGS IN ALSO IS THAT ACCURATE?

>> THAT IS ACCURATE.

I WEAR A LOT OF DANGERRARY DANGLY EARRINGS AND I GAVE THEM THE EARRINGS AS WELL AS THE $100 BILL AND WROTE THE NOTE TO THEM.

RNS AYDA TELL ME WHAT WAS GOING ON FOR YOU AND YOUR ARE SISTER A LITTLE BIT OF THE HISTORY.

HOW DID YOU IMAGINE TO GET ON THAT PARTICULAR PLANE?

>> YES SO IT'S INTERESTING BECAUSE THE DAY BEFORE WE MET TRACY MY SISTER AND I LEFT OUR PARENTS WITH BOMBS FALLING ALL AROUND US.

AND IT WAS VERY DIFFICULT TO -- SORRY ABOUT THE NOISE -- IT WAS REALLY DIFFICULT TO EVEN IMAGINE THIS IDEA OF, YOU KNOW, THIS WRARMT AND KINDNESS COMING FROM A STRANGER IN MY COUNTRY AT THE TIME, FAMILY AND FRIENDS WERE NOT KIND AND WELCOMING.

AND SO -- >> Neisloss: AND YOU WERE FLEEING KOSOVO AT THE TIME IS THAT CORRECT?

>> I WAS FLEEING I CALL IT FORMER YUGOSLAVIA, MY FAMILY IS MEMORANDUM, WE HAVE LIVED IN SLOVAKIA SOME SLOVENIA, WE WERE FLEEING FROM THE FORMER YUGOSLAVIA.

WE WERE ACTUALLY FLEEING THE NATO BOMBING.

BUT THE NATO BOMBING DID HELP PEOPLE MOVE FORWARD AFTER EVERYTHING THAT'S HAPPENED.

SO IT'S NOT SOMETHING THAT I THINK IT IS A LOT OF -- IT IS VERY HARD FOR FOLKS KNOWING THAT IT TOOK THAT ACT IN ORDER TO STOP THE GENOCIDE THAT HAPPENED IN THE COUNTRY.

BUT YOU KNOW THERE WAS NO SAFETY TO BE FOUND AT ALL.

ANYWHERE.

AND SO MY PARENTS DECIDED TO PUT US ON THAT PLANE.

>> Neisloss: AND WHEN YOU GOT ON THAT PLANE DID YOU HAVE ANY IDEA WHAT WAS NEXT FOR YOU?

>> ABSOLUTELY NOT.

YOU KNOW, EVEN CROSSING OVER INTO HUNGARY AT THE TIME WHERE WE FLEW FROM, BECAUSE THERE WAS NO FLIGHTS LEAVING OUR COUNTRY AT THE TIME THAT WERE SAFE.

WE HAD NO IDEA.

WE DIDN'T HAVE ANY MONEY ON US ACTUALLY.

WE HAD JUST ENOUGH TO CROSS SAFELY ACROSS THE BORDER.

THERE'S FEES THAT YOU WOULD PAY TO CROSS EVERY BORDER.

JUST LIKE A VISA FEE THAT YOU NEED TO PAY.

AND WE HAD NO MONEY LEFT OVER.

AND SO WE HAD NO CLUE WHAT WE WERE GOING TO DO.

WE DIDN'T KNOW WHERE WE WERE GOING TO BE OR LIVE OR WHAT THE FUTURE WAS HOLDING FOR US.

AND SO BEING ABLE TO GET A CHANCE TO TALK TO TRACY THERE AND JUST, YOU KNOW, FEEL HER WELCOMING SPIRIT BUT ALSO THE HOPE THAT SHE HAD FOR US.

WITH THAT MESSAGE OF LIKE WISHING US SAFETY AND HAPPINESS.

I THINK IT REALLY CREATED KIND OF A GOAL FOR ME TO HAVE SAFETY AND HAPPINESS HERE IN THE U.S. >> Neisloss: SO TRACY WAS THIS THE KIND OF PERSON YOU WERE, YOU DESCRIBED IT LIKE SUCH A SPONTANEOUS ACT BUT IS THIS REALLY THE KIND OF PERSON YOU ALWAYS WERE, SOMEONE WHO REACHED OUT TO HELP OTHER PEOPLE?

>> WELL, YOU KNOW, I -- I GUESS.

I ALWAYS FELT THAT I AM, HOPED THAT I WOULD ALWAYS BE THAT KIND OF PERSON.

I ALWAYS TOLD MY CHILDREN YOU KNOW BE KIND THE EVERYONE.

BE KIND TO EVERYONE BECAUSE YOU NEVER KNOW WHO NEEDS HELP.

AND WE ALL WANT TO BE ACCEPTED AND LOVED IN LIFE.

THAT'S KIND OF THE GOAL, RIGHT?

OF BEING -- WE'RE ALL HUMAN BEINGS THAT WANT TO BE ACCEPTED AND LOVED.

AND SO I GUESS I JUST, AFTER HEARING THEIR STORY I JUST FELT LIKE THIS IS SOMETHING I HAD TO DO.

AND SO I JUST DID IT.

>> Neisloss: AND HOW HAVE YOU MOVED FORWARD IN LIFE?

I BELIEVE YOU'RE AN ACTIVIST NOW.

WHAT -- CAN YOU GIVE US A SENSE OF WHAT YOU'RE DOING?

>> YEAH, YOU KNOW IT'S INTERESTING YOU KNOW, MY THINKING THROUGH TRACY'S ACT OF KINDNESS I REALLY WANTED TO FOCUS MY ENTIRE CAREER ON SOCIAL IMPACT.

SO OVER THE LAST ALMOST EVERY YEAR SINCE, I'VE FOCUSED ON REALLY DOING THAT ADVOCATING FOR PEOPLE WHO ARE MOST MARGINALIZED, THOSE ALSO INCLUDE REFUGEES AND IMMIGRANTS IN THE U.S.

SO I'M AN ELECTED DELEGATE FOR REFUGEE CONGRESS WHICH IS AN AMAZING ORGANIZATION.

I'M ALSO A BUSINESS OWNER AND SO IT'S BEEN AMAZING TO BE ABLE TO LOOK THROUGH HOW TRACY'S INSPIRED US TO PAY IT FORWARD TO REALLY -- THE FIRST THING DID I THE MOMENT I HAD MY FOOT ON THE GROUND IS GO AND WORK AT A REFUGEE CAMP IN ZAMBIA WITH OTHER REFUGEES, TRACY HAS REALLY INSPIRED ME TO REALLY PAY IT FORWARD MY WHOLE LIFE SO I REALLY TOOK HARD HER MESSAGE OF BEING SAFE AND FINDING HAPPINESS AND IT'S AMAZING TO HAVE TOWND THAT.

>> Neisloss: IT SOUNDS LIKE IT.

>> IN THE U.S. AND IN BOSTON AND TRACY HAS BEEN WITH ME ALL THOSE YEARS.

>> Neisloss: IT IS A WONDERFUL STORY IT REALLY IS THE KIND OF STORY WE REALLY NEED TO HERE RIGHT NOW.

THANK YOU AYDA ZUGAY AND TRACY PECK THANK YOU SO MUCH.

>> THANK YOU SO MUCH.

THAT'S IT FOR TONIGHT, BUT COME BACK TOMORROW FOR "TALKING POLITICS."

ADAM REILLY AND HIS PANEL WILL DIG INTO THE NEW FEDERAL REVIEW OF THE MBTA, AFTER SEVERAL RECENT SAFETY INCIDENTS.

PLUS, MAYOR MICHELLE WU KICKS THE RACE FOR SUFFOLK COUNTY D.A.

INTO HIGH GEAR.

THAT AND MORE, TOMORROW AT 7:00.

THANKS FOR WATCHING.

GOOD NIGHT.