♪ >> TONIGHT ON GREATER BOSTON, PRESIDENT BIDEN HAS BEGUN STOPPING SOME WEAPON SHIPMENTS TO ISRAEL AS HE PUBLICLY PUSHES BACK AGAINST PRIME MINISTER NETANYAHU’S WAR PLANS.

STUDENT ACTIVISTS BEHIND THE CANVAS PROTEST HELP CONVINCE BIDENS PLANS?

MASSACHUSETTS IS SUING UBER AND LYFT TO CLASSIFY PLAYS AS -- RIDE-SHARE DRIVERS AS EMPLOYEES.

♪ THE BIDEN ADMINISTRATION IS MAKING ITS STAUNCHEST CONDEMNATION OF ISRAEL’S ATTACKS ON CIVILIANS IN GAZA AS ISRAELI FORCES MOUNT ATTACKS ON THE CITY OF RAFAH WERE MORE THAN A MILLION PALESTINIANS HAVE BEEN SEEKING REFUGE.

>> GOING INTO RAFAH TO DEAL WITH THESE REMAINING BATTALIONS ESPECIALLY ADDED ABSENCE OF A PLAN FOR CIVILIANS RISKS TO THINK TERRIBLE HARM TO CIVILIANS AND NOT SOLVING A PROBLEM WHICH IS MAKING SURE HAMAS CANNOT AGAIN GOVERN GAZA.

>> PRESIDENT BIDEN ALSO RECENTLY DECIDED TO POSE A SHIPMENT OF BOMBS HEADING TO ISRAEL.

ALL OF WHICH HAS COME AMIDST WEEKS OF PRO-PALESTINE PROTEST ON DOZENS OF COLLEGE CAMPUSES.

WHAT IS BEHIND THE ADMINISTRATION’S SHIFT AND WHAT MIGHT IT MEAN FOR THE MOVEMENT GOING FORWARD?

I’M JOINED BY THE ADJUNCT PROFESSOR OF AMERICAN STUDIES IN WASHINGTON, D.C. THOMAS WHALEN, A BOSTON UNIVERSITY PROFESSOR WITH FOCUSES ON MODERN FOREIGN POLICY IN AMERICAN POLITICS AND A FORMER ASSOCIATE COUNSEL TO GEORGE H W BUSH AND RONALD REAGAN.

THANK YOU FOR BEING HERE.

AM I RIGHT TO TAKE A WHAT THE BIDEN ADMINISTRATION HAS SAID IN RECENT DAYS IN TANDEM WITH THIS REPORT THAT CAME FROM THE STATE DEPARTMENT WHICH FOUND IT IS REASONABLE TO SUGGEST IS REAL MIGHT HAVE BEEN INCONSISTENT WITH INTERNATIONAL HUMANITARIAN LAW WHEN IT COMES TO ITS DEPLOYMENT OF WEAPONS?

IS IT FAIR TO TAKE THIS COLLECTIVELY AS THE BIGGEST SHIFT IN TONE FROM THE U.S.

SINCE THIS CONFLICT BEGAN?

>> I THINK THAT IS FAIR, THOUGH NOT SURPRISING BECAUSE PRESIDENT BIDEN IS LOSING A GOOD PART OF HIS POLITICAL BASE AMONG YOUNG VOTERS.

HE IS TRYING TO THREAD THE NEEDLE POLITICALLY BUT I DON’T THINK HE IS SUCCEEDING.

>> YOU SEE IT AS DRIVEN BY POLITICAL CONSIDERATIONS, THE SHIFT IN TONE.

>> IT IS HARD TO LOOK AT IT OTHERWISE.

HE DOES NOT WANT TO CRITICIZE ISRAEL BEFORE A GENERAL ELECTION IN NOVEMBER BUT THAT IS THE ISSUE HE FORCED HIMSELF IN GIVEN HIS COMMENTS AND GIVEN THE DOMESTIC SITUATION.

>> THAT ME ASK YOU THE SAME THING.

IS THIS THE BIGGEST SHIFT IN TONE WE HAVE SEEN AND IF SO WHAT DO YOU ATTRIBUTE IT TO?

>> IT IS PROBABLY THE BIGGEST SHIFT IN TONE VIS-A-VIS THE ISRAEL HAMAS WAR.

ALSO, BIDEN HAS HAD A DIFFICULT RELATIONSHIP WITH NETANYAHU OVER MANY YEARS.

MANY OF YOU WILL RECALL THAT THE JUDICIAL OVERHAUL PLAN THAT NETANYAHU’S GOVERNMENT WANTED IN ELICITED BIDENS CRITICISM AND THAT WAS ON AN ISRAELI DOMESTIC ISSUE.

THE WAR WHEN THE HAMAS ATTACKS OCCURRED, BIDEN WENT TO ISRAEL AND EMBRACED NETANYAHU, MET WITH THE FAMILIES, MET WITH THE WORK CABINETS SO THAT WAS A TIGHT EMBRACE BUT OVER THE PAST SEVERAL MONTHS, BIDEN HAS BECOME INCREASINGLY FRUSTRATED THAT SO MANY PALESTINIAN CIVILIANS HAVE BEEN KILLED AND THE ISRAELI GOVERNMENT IS NOT DOING ENOUGH TO PROTECT THOSE CIVILIANS.

>> DO YOU THINK THE PROTESTS HAVE SEEN ON A NUMBER OF COLLEGE CAMPUSES INCLUDING SEVERAL IN THE BOSTON AREA HAVE PLAYED A ROLE IN PUSHING THE BIDEN ADMINISTRATION TO THIS POINT?

ABSOLUTELY.

I THINK IT IS FRONT WITH DANGER FOR THE PRESIDENT.

ON THE ONE HAND, HE HAS PEOPLE FROM THE LEFT GETTING BEHIND THE MORE EXTREME ELEMENTS IN HIS PARTY PUT ON THE OTHER HAND, HE HAS A LOT OF INDEPENDENTS, SOME DEMOCRATS LOOKING AT THE WAY THE IVY LEAGUE HAS BEEN HANDLING THE PROTESTS, TYING IT TOGETHER WITH OTHER RESENTMENTS AGAINST WOKE CULTURE.

THERE IS A REACTION IN THE OTHER DIRECTION AS WELL.

THERE IS NO EASY WAY OUT FOR HIM.

I’M NOT SURE THIS IS GOING TO BE A NET POLITICAL WIN FOR HIM.

>> YOU WROTE A PIECE RECENTLY IN WHICH YOU TALKED ABOUT THE POTENTIAL DOMESTIC CONSEQUENCES OF THE WAR FOR PRESIDENT BIDEN AND FORMER PRESIDENT TRUMP SHOULD YOU MADE THE POINT IN THAT PIECE THERE HAS BEEN A SEACHANGE AMONG DEMOCRATS VENERATION ELLIE WHEN IT COMES TO VIEWS ON ISRAEL AND PALESTINE.

CAN USE AND UPSIZE WHAT THAT CHANGE HAS BEEN?

>> OLDER DEMOCRATS ARE STILL VERY MUCH IN SUPPORT OF ISRAEL BUT YOUNGER DEMOCRATS, THERE HAS BEEN A BIG SHIFT.

THERE WAS A QUINNIPIAC POLL OF LATE 2023 WHICH I HAVE THE STATISTIC HERE.

IT SAYS 69% OF DEMOCRATS, DEMOCRATIC LEANING VOTERS UNDER THE AGE OF 30 DISAPPROVE OF BIDENS HANDLING OF THE WAR.

THE ISRAEL HAMAS WAR.

WE SEE A BIG GENERATIONAL SHIFT WITHIN THE DEMOCRATIC PARTY.

BIDEN OF COURSE OF THIS IS AN ELECTION YEAR AND HE IS VERY CONCERNED HE IS GOING TO LOSE THE YOUNGER VOTE.

>> I WANT TO GET YOUR TAKE ON THE POSSIBLE DOMESTIC FALLOUT.

HOW THIS CAN PLAY OUT.

BEFORE YOU WAY IN AND OFFER ANY PROGNOSTICATION, LET’S TAKE A LOOK AT HEALTH FORMER PRESIDENT TRUMP IS FRAMING RECENT DEVELOPMENTS IN THE BIDEN ADMINISTRATION ON THE CAMPAIGN TRAIL.

>> THIS WEEK HE ANNOUNCED HE WILL WITHHOLD SHIPPING WEAPONS TO ISRAEL AS THEY FIGHT TO ERADICATE HAMAS TERRORISTS IN GAZA.

THAT WAS SHOCKING TO HEAR IT.

EVEN WHILE THERE ARE STILL AMERICAN HOSTAGES BEING HELD BY HAMAS.

CROOKED JOB’S ACTION IS ONE OF THE WORST BETRAYAL OF AN AMERICAN ALLY IN THE HISTORY OF OUR COUNTRY.

>> WITH THAT AS A PRELUDE, WHAT DO YOU SEE HAPPENING AS THE BIDEN ADMINISTRATION STAKES OUT THE RHETORICAL TERRITORY IT IS RIGHT NOW?

HOW DO YOU SEE IT AFFECTING POLITICS MOVING FORWARD FROM THE CAMPAIGN TO ACTIONS THAT MIGHT BE TAKEN BY CONGRESS INVOLVING FOREIGN AID TO ISRAEL AND OTHER PLACES?

>> I THINK FROM HENCEFORWARD, FOREIGN AND MILITARY AID TO ISRAEL IS GOING TO BE A HIGHLY DEBATED ISSUE IN CONGRESS AMONG REPUBLICANS AND DEMOCRATS.

THIS IS A NEW THING.

ISRAEL -- AID TO ISRAEL HAS ALWAYS BEEN A BIPARTISAN MOVE.

NOW IT IS GOING TO BE A MAJOR ISSUE.

AT THE SAME TIME YOU HEAR FROM PEOPLE LIKE LINDSEY GRAHAM AND THE REPUBLICAN PARTY AND EVEN SPEAKER OF THE HOUSE MIKE JOHNSON HAS HINTED OF IT THAT THIS IS A BETRAYAL OF ISRAEL AND THAT IN A WAY BIDEN HAS BETRAYED THE REPUBLICANS COME THE DEAL THEY CUT ON AID TO UKRAINE AND ISRAEL AND ALSO TO TAIWAN.

AND WHO KNOWS, GIVEN THE ANCHOR PARTISAN ATMOSPHERE, ANY REPUBLICANS I HAVE -- I CAN SEE ON THE EXTREME MIGHT MIGHT BE CALLING FOR JOE BIDEN’S IMPEACHMENT.

>> SPECIFICALLY OVER THIS.

>> OVER THIS ISSUE SAYING HE IS DEFYING THE WILL OF CONGRESS.

THIS IS A HIGH CRIME A MISDEMEANOR IN THEIR CRIMES AND THEY WANT TO PUNISH HIM FOR IT.

IF THEY DO OR NOT, BIDEN IS IN A TOUGH SPOT POLITICALLY.

>> BIO MEANS.

GO AHEAD, -- BY ALL MEANS, GO AHEAD GREGORY.

>> THE ATMOSPHERICS ARE LENDING ITSELF TO REPUBLICAN CRITICISM.

YOU HAVE TO REMEMBER THAT CONGRESS PASSED THIS HUGE SUPPLEMENTAL AID PACKAGE WHICH BIDEN COMPLETELY SUPPORTED WHICH WAS SOMETHING LIKE $14 BILLION IN ADDITIONAL MILITARY AID TO ISRAEL.

IT IS NOT LIKE BIDEN IS ABANDONING ISRAEL.

IT IS JUST THAT HE SET MARKERS SAYING THAT IF YOU GO INTO RAFAH IN A MAJOR WAY, WE ARE GOING TO HOLD UP OFFENSIVE LITERARY WEAPONS.

>> JUST TO BE CLEAR, CAN YOU TELL PEOPLE MORE ABOUT THE WEAPONS HE IS SAYING HE IS GOING TO HOLD BACK?

>> HE SAID HE IS GOING TO HOLD BACK BOMBS AND HE EVEN SAID IN DECEMBER OF LAST YEAR THAT ISRAEL HAS ENGAGED IN INDISCRIMINATE ON AND HE HAS SAID HE IS GOING TO HOLD BACK ARTILLERY SHELLS.

THIS IS WHAT HE SAID TO CNN JUST LAST WEEK.

>> WHAT DO YOU THINK ABOUT THE IMPEACHMENT SCENARIO TOM FLUTTERED A MOMENT AGO?

DO YOU THINK THAT IS REALISTIC?

>> REPUBLICANS HAVE BEEN CALLING FOR IMPEACHMENT ABOUT MANY THINGS.

I DON’T THINK IT MATTERS VERY MUCH.

I WOULD DISAGREE A LITTLE BIT BECAUSE I THINK THE REAL THREAT IS NOT FROM REPUBLICANS.

IT IS WITHIN THE DEMOCRATIC PARTY ITSELF.

HISTORICALLY, YOUR GUEST WOULD BE LIKE ABOUT -- WOULD BE RIGHT ABOUT THE LIKELY REACTION.

WE HAVE FLIPPED INTO A NUT SEE AREA IN POLITICS SHOULD I THINK A BIG RISK FOR BIDEN IS THE CONVENTION COMING UP.

YOU’RE GOING TO HAVE 10,000 UNSUPERVISED DEMOCRATS IN ONE PLACE WITH NOTHING PRODUCTIVE FOR THEM TO ACTUALLY DO.

I THINK THE LIKELIHOOD THAT BECOMES A FLASHPOINT FOR FRUSTRATION FOR DEMOCRATS THAT SUPPORT ISRAEL, DEMOCRATS THAT SUPPORT HAMAS AND DEMOCRATS LOOKING FOR TROUBLE, I THINK IT IS LIKELY TO BE A ZOO.

I THINK IN LESS THEY ARE VERY CAREFUL, THAT COULD BE THE BEGINNING OF THE END FOR PRESIDENT BIDEN.

I THINK IT IS GOING TO PLAY OUT MORE WITH OTHER THAN DEMOCRATIC PARTY -- MORE WITHIN THE DEMOCRAT A PARTY.

IT IS GOING TO BE NOT SOMETHING WE HAVE SEEN BEFORE.

>> SHADES OF 1968 YOU ARE SEEING?

>> A LITTLE BIT LIKE 68 I THINK IT IS GOING TO BE MORE OUT OF CONTROL SHARED IN 68 YOU STILL HAD PARTY BOSSES THAT COULD CONTROL DELEGATIONS.

AND THAT KIND OF THING.

I DON’T THINK EITHER PARTY YOU HAVE THAT KIND OF POLITICAL CONTROL OVER YOUR PEOPLE ANYMORE.

PEOPLE GET ELECTED AND PICKED BY PEOPLE OTHER THAN THE OLD PARTY BOSSES.

IF THE HEAD OF THE DELEGATION SAYS CUT THAT OUT, THEY ARE NOT GOING TO STOP.

I THINK THAT IS THE BIG RISK IN THE SHORT-TERM.

WE WILL KNOW WITHIN A COUPLE MONTHS.

>> IF I MIGHT ADD SOMETHING HERE, IT IS NOT THAT THERE ARE DEMOCRATS SUPPORTING HAMAS.

THERE ARE DEMOCRATS SUPPORTING THE LESSENING OF CIVILIAN CASUALTIES.

35,000 PALESTINIANS HAVE DIED AND TWO THIRDS OF WHICH ARE WOMEN AND CHILDREN.

I MEAN, AT A CERTAIN POINT, ONE HAS TO HAVE EMPATHY FOR THE NUMBER OF PALESTINIAN CIVILIANS WHO ARE REALLY IN DIRE SITUATION.

SO YOU DO HAVE A SPLIT WITHIN THE PARTY.

I AGREE YOU HAVE SOME STALWARTS WHO ARE GOING TO SAY YOU HAVE TO SUPPORT ISRAEL NO MATTER WHAT BUT YOU HAVE OTHER FACTIONS WHO WILL SAY WE STILL SUPPORT ISRAEL BUT WE DON’T WANT THEM TO ENGAGE IN MORE CIVILIAN DEATHS.

>> CLEARLY THERE ARE DEMOCRATS OF THAT PROFILE BUT IN MY OPINION IT IS JUST SIMPLY NOT TRUE TO SAY THAT THERE ARE NOT DEMOCRATS OUT THERE REALLY SUPPORTING HAMAS.

IF YOU LOOK AT THE COLLEGE CAMPUSES, THAT IS CLEARLY TRUE.

IF YOU LOOK AT THE FLANK THEY ARE FLYING.

THEY ARE FLYING THE HOMELESS FLAGS.

.

PARODYING THE RHETORIC OF HAMAS.

YOU HAVE AN ELEMENT IN CONGRESS IN THE QUOTE UNQUOTE SQUAD INCLUDING ONE OF OUR LOCAL MEMBERS OF CONGRESS WHO ARE IN MY OPINION RIGHT OUT THERE WITH THE WRONG SIDE.

>> BASED ON STATEMENTS I HAVE SEEN FROM CONGRESSWOMAN PRESLEY COME I THINK IF SHE WERE HERE SHE WOULD PUSH BACK AND SAY SHE IS NOT A HIM A SUPPORTER AND SHE HAS DENOUNCED THE OCTOBER 7 ATTACK.

>> CERTAINLY PRESIDENT TRUMP IS GOING TO FRAME IT IN THAT WAY.

>> HE WILL FRAME IT THAT WAY.

WE ONLY HAVE TWO MINUTES LEFT DEMETRA DID IN HEARING -- WE ARE TALKED ABOUT POTENTIAL DOMESTIC CONSEQUENCES.

GREGORY, DO YOU EXPECT THIS SHIFT OR SHARPENING ON THE PART OF THE BIDEN ADMINISTRATION TO HAVE ANY EFFECT ON WHAT IS REAL AND PRIME MINISTER NETANYAHU CHOOSE TO DO IN THE COMING WEEKS?

>> I ACTUALLY DON’T BECAUSE NETANYAHU IS HAS EVEN SAID -- NETANYAHU HAS SAID PUBLICLY WE CAN DO THINGS ON OUR OWN.

THEY PROBABLY DO HAVE ENOUGH WEAPONS ALREADY IN THEIR STOCK TO GO INTO RAFAH.

I THINK NETANYAHU HAS A DOMESTIC POLITICAL CONSIDERATION BECAUSE HE BELIEVES IF HE DOES NOT FINISH THE JOB IN RAFAH, HIS WHOLE POLITICAL LEGITIMACY IS AT STAKE.

SO I THINK HE IS GOING TO DEFY BIDEN AND HE KNOWS THAT REPUBLICANS IN CONGRESS WILL SUPPORT HIM.

THAT IS THE CALCULATION I THINK HE HAS MADE ALREADY.

>> I WOULD LOVE TO HAVE THE TWO OF YOU WEIGH IN.

YOU WILL END UP HAVING THE LAST WORD.

HOW DO YOU THINK THIS MIGHT AFFECT THE ISRAELI GOVERNMENT’S PROSECUTION OF THE WORK?

>> I THINK THEY ARE IN IT FOR A LONG TIME.

IT IS NOW IN THE PUT INTEREST OF NETANYAHU TO WRAP THIS UP QUICKLY TO HE WOULD LOSE SUPPORT OF THE RIGHT WING OF HIS COALITION AND THEY WOULD ABANDON HIM LIKE AT THE DROP OF A HAT.

>> HIS GOVERNMENT COULD COLLAPSE.

>> EXACTLY.

HAMAS IS NOT GOING TO RETREAT EITHER.

NEITHER OF THE MAIN ANTAGONISTS POLITICAL INTEREST AND THAT IS THE TRUE TRAGEDY HERE.

>> I AGREE WITH THAT.

HE IS NOT GOING TO STOP UNTIL HE GETS THE HOSTAGES AND WHETHER HE GETS THEM THROUGH A NEGOTIATED DEAL WHICH WOULD BE DIFFICULT AND TAKE A LONG TIME OR HE GETS THEM THROUGH MILITARY FORCE WHICH IS GOING TO BE DIFFICULT AND TAKE A LONG TIME, I THINK HE AND A SUBSTANTIAL NUMBER OF PEOPLE IN ISRAEL, THAT IS THE ONLY WAY THEY CAN GO.

>> THANK YOU ALL FOR BEING HERE TO TALK THIS THROUGH.

>> THANK YOU.

>> NEXT UP, HOW SHOULD RIDE-SHARE DRIVERS BE CLASSIFIED?

THAT IS THE QUESTION AT THE HEART OF MASSACHUSETTS LAWSUIT AGAINST UBER AND LIFT -- UBER AND LYFT WHICH KICKED OFF TODAY.

AN ATTORNEY ARGUES THE COMPANIES CLASSIFY THEIR DRIVERS AS INDEPENDENT CONTRACTORS RATHER THAN EMPLOYEES WHO ARE ENTITLED TO MORE BENEFITS.

LAWYERS FOR UBER AND LIFT ARGUE THEIR DRIVERS DO NOT FIT INTO A TRADITIONAL EMPLOYEE ROLE.

THEY ARE BEHIND THE STATE BALLOT QUESTION THAT WOULD ESTABLISH A LAW DECLARING THEIR DRIVERS INDEPENDENT CONTRACTORS.

KATIE LENNON WAS WATCHING THE PROCEEDINGS IN COURT.

SHE JOINS ME TO HELP BREAK ALL OF THIS DOWN.

GOOD TO SEE YOU AS ALWAYS.

THIS CASE WAS FILED IN 2020 WHEN THE ATTORNEY GENERAL WAS NOW GOVERNOR MAURA HEALEY.

FINALLY COMING TO TRIAL NOW.

WHAT ARE THE RESPECTIVE SIDES HAVE TO SAY IN THEIR OPENING ARGUMENTS?

>>’S ARE NOT NEW ARGUMENTS AT THIS POINT AND THEY ARE ONES THAT WE HAVE HEARD PLAY OUT IN THE STATEHOUSE AND IN CAMPAIGN COMMERCIALS AT THIS POINT THAT WHAT UBER AND LYFT ARE SAYING IS THEY OPERATE RATHER THAN A TRANSPORTATION COMPANY, THEY ARE NOT A TAXI COMPANY.

THEY SAY THE OPERATE MORE LIKE AIRBNB OR AT SEA.

>> DECENTRALIZED CLEARINGHOUSE FOR INDIVIDUALS WHO WANT TO DO THINGS.

>> THEY DESCRIBED THEIR DRIVERS AS ENTREPRENEURS WHO WANT TO BE ABLE TO SET THEIR OWN SCHEDULES, WHO MIGHT HAVE OTHER JOBS OR FAMILY OBLIGATIONS OR PERSONAL INTERESTS AND SCHEDULES TO WORK AROUND.

THEY SAY THAT FLEXIBILITY IS WHAT DRAWS PEOPLE TO THIS JOB AND IT IS A KEY COMPONENT OF THE TRUCK -- OF THE CONTRACTOR MODEL.

WHAT WE ARE HEARING FROM THE STATE, FROM THE ATTORNEY GENERAL’S OFFICE IS THAT UBER AND LYFT HAVE A LEVEL OF CONTROL OVER EACH RIDE, AND A LEVEL OF INVOLVEMENT THAT DOES NOT SQUARE WITH THE CONTRACT MODEL.

THE RIDE IS THE PRODUCT THAT THEY ARE MAKING THEIR MONEY OFF OF AND THAT THEY HAVE LOYALTY PROGRAMS, INITIAL INCENTIVES AND OTHER WAYS TO SHAPE DRIVER BEHAVIORS.

>> VERY HANDS-ON AS OPPOSED TO LAISSEZ-FAIRE.

THE STATES FAIR LABOR DIVISION, THIS IS THE ATTORNEY GENERAL’S OFFICE.

INTERESTING FOR PEOPLE TO PONDER.

THEY SAY THIS IS WHAT IT TAKES FOR WORKERS TO BE TREATED LIKE CONTRACTORS.

WORK HAS TO BE DONE WITHOUT THE DIRECTION AND CONTROL OF THE EMPLOYER.

WORK HAS TO BE PERFORMED OUTSIDE OF THE USUAL COURSE OF THE EMPLOYER’S BUSINESS AND THE WORK IS DONE BY SOMEONE WHO HAS THEIR OWN INDEPENDENT BUSINESS OR TRADE DOING THAT KIND OF WORK WHICH TIES INTO EVERYTHING YOU MENTIONED.

THERE IS ANOTHER BALLOT QUESTION.

I MENTIONED THE QUESTION OF TOP BACKED BY THE INDUSTRY.

THERE IS ANOTHER ONE OPPOSED TO THE INDUSTRY AND IS INTIMATELY CONNECTED TO THIS LAWSUIT WE ARE TALKING ABOUT.

WHAT IS THAT OTHER BALLOT QUESTION?

>> THIS IS WHERE IT GETS TO BE A LITTLE BIT OF A TANGLE.

BUT THE QUESTION YOU ARE REFERRING TO WHICH IS BACKED BY LABOR UNIONS WHO ALSO OPPOSE THE OTHER BALLOT QUESTION BUT WE WILL TALK ABOUT THAT LATER.

THIS BALLOT QUESTION WOULD LET UBER AND LYFT DRIVERS UNIONIZE UNDER THE STATE’S COLLECTIVE-BARGAINING WALLS.

ONE OF THE THINGS WE HAVE HEARD IN VARIOUS DISCUSSIONS ABOUT THIS IS THAT THIS BALLOT QUESTION, UNIONIZATION PUSH IS DESIGNED TO KIND OF STAND EITHER WAY.

WHETHER ULTIMATELY UNDERSTATE LAW DRIVERS ARE CONTRACTORS OR EMPLOYEES, THEY WOULD STILL BE GRANTED THIS COLLECTIVE-BARGAINING RIGHT IF THE VOTERS SIGN OFF.

>> IT WAS CRAFTED WITH THIS COURT FIGHT WE ARE TALKING ABOUT IN MIND AND IT COULD -- WHATEVER THE OUTCOME ENDS -- WHATEVER THE OUTCOME IS.

>> SINCE THIS COURT FIGHT HAS ITS ROOTS THREE YEARS AGO, IT IS AT THE HEART OF ALL THE DISCUSSION AND IT IS NEVER TOO FAR FROM THE FRONT OF ANYONE’S MIND.

>> THERE IS A PRECEDENT FOR THE RIDESHARE COMPANIES IF THINGS HAPPEN IN PARTICULAR JURISDICTION THEY DON’T LIKE, REGULATORY STEPS ARE TAKEN WHATEVER THEY MAY BE OF TAKING DRASTIC ACTION.

CAN YOU OFFER A SUPER BRIEF DESCRIPTION OF WHAT HAS HELP AND ELSEWHERE?

>> THERE IS AN INSTANCE A FEW YEARS AGO IN AUSTIN, TEXAS WHERE UBER AND LYFT PULLED OUT OF THAT CITY FOR ABOUT A YEAR OVER CONCERNS WITH FINGERPRINTING REQUIREMENT FOR DRIVERS.

THE ULTIMATELY ONLY CAME BACK WHEN STATE-LEVEL LEGISLATION WAS PASSED TO CHANGE THAT.

THEY HAVE ALSO SAID WE COULD SEE AS SOON THIS SUMMER THOSE TWO COMPANIES LEAVE MINNEAPOLIS OVER A WAGE ORDINANCE THERE.

THEY ARE WAITING TO SEE WHAT HAPPENS.

I JUST LAID OVERLY.

-- LEGISLATIVELY KID THE POSSIBILITY OF UBER AND LYFT PULLING OUT OF MASSACHUSETTS IS SOMEBODY -- IS SOMETHING LAWMAKERS HAVE ASKED ABOUT WHEN THEY HAVE HAD COMPANY EXECUTIVES IN TO TESTIFY.

THEY DID NOT GET A CLEAR ANSWER IN THEIR QUESTIONING.

IT DOES SEEM LIKE THAT IS SOMETHING ON THE TABLE EITHER AS A REALITY OR AS A BARGAINING CHIP.

>> I AM NO ATTORNEY AS YOU KNOW BUT I WONDER LYFT IF UBER AND LYFT’S -- UBER AND LYFT’S CERTAIN MARKETS MAY BE USED BY CERTAIN PEOPLE WHO DISAGREE WITH THE RIDESHARE COMPANIES OVER THIS QUESTION OF WHETHER THEIR WORKERS ARE EMPLOYEES OR CONTRACTORS BECAUSE IF THE ENTIRE COMPANY CAN PULL OUT, IF IT IS NOT LEFT UP TO INDIVIDUALS, PICKING OUT LOUD BUT THAT SEEMS LIKE AN ARGUMENT THAT SEEMS TO UNDERCUT THE CONTRACTOR CLAIM THE RIDESHARE COMPANIES MAKE.

JUST TO MAKE THINGS EVEN MORE CONSUMING CAP -- EVEN MORE CONFUSING, THERE IS ABOUT QUESTION BACKED BY THE INDUSTRY AND IT WOULD DO WHAT EXACTLY?

>> EVEN THE EXACTLY PART OF THAT QUESTION IS TRICKY TO ANSWER.

>>>> IT IS A TERRIBLE QUESTION TOO BECAUSE IT PUTS YOU ON THE SPOT.

>> THE REASON I CANNOT GIVE YOU AN EXACT ANSWER IS BECAUSE THERE ARE MULTIPLE VERSIONS IN PLAY.

THERE ARE -- THE QUESTION WAS KNOCKED OFF THE BALLOT, A SIMILAR QUESTION WAS KNOCKED OFF THE BALLOT IN THE PREVIOUS CYCLE.

DID NOT MEET THE QUALIFICATIONS SO THIS TIME AROUND, THE INDUSTRY BACKED GROUP AS PUTTING FORWARD MULTIPLE VERSIONS OF THE QUESTION.

I BELIEVE THERE ARE FIVE IN PLAY AND THEY RANGE FROM JUST DEFINING THE DRIVERS AS CONTRACTORS TO SOME ALTERNATIVE VERSIONS WOULD GRANT THEM NEW BENEFITS ALONG WITH CEMENTING THAT CONTRACTOR STATUS.

>> WHAT HAPPENS IF THE JUDGE IN THE CASE THAT JUST KICKED OFF TODAY, WHAT HAPPENS IF THAT JUDGE SAYS YES, THE DRIVERS ARE EMPLOYEES AND WHAT HAPPENS IF THEN LATER ON THIS YEAR, VOTERS PASSED A BALLOT QUESTION SAYING RIDE-SHARE DRIVERS ARE CONTRACTORS?

HOW WOULD THAT CONFLICT BE RESOLVED?

>> I THINK WE STILL CONTINUE TO HAVE TROUBLE TALKING ABOUT WHAT GOES ON IN THAT SITUATION.

MORE CONFUSION.

IT IS WORTH NOTING AND BEING CLEAR HERE THAT THE ONGOING TRIAL IS ABOUT CURRENT STATE LAW AND WHAT IS REQUIRED UNDER CURRENT STATE LOW.

THE BALLOT QUESTION WOULD CREATE A NEW LAW.

THAT WOULD BE FORWARD LOOKING.

THE ATTORNEY GENERAL’S OFFICE HAS SAID IF THAT SCENARIO PLAYS OUT, IF THE LAWSUIT SAYS THEY ARE EMPLOYEES AND VOTERS DECIDE THEY SHOULD BE CONTRACTORS, THERE WILL STILL BE A RETROACTIVE PERIOD OF BENEFITS THAT WERE DUE WHEN THE DRIVERS WERE EMPLOYEES BUT CLASSIFIED AS CONTRACTORS AND MADE.

THEY WOULD GO AFTER THOSE BENEFITS.

THEY WOULD SEEK TO HAVE THAT PAID.

>> I NEVER WOULD HAVE THOUGHT OF THAT AS BEING A POSSIBLE WRINKLE.

BOTH THESE QUESTIONS, BALLOT QUESTIONS HEADED IN THE GENERAL DIRECTION OF VOTERS LATER THIS FALL, THEY ARE BEING CHALLENGED AT THE SUPREME JUDICIAL COURT.

THE GROUNDS FOR THE CHALLENGE BEING BROUGHT BY PEOPLE WHO DON’T LIKE THE ANTI-INDUSTRY MEASURE AND WHO DON’T LIKE THE PRO INDUSTRY MEASURE?

>> THIS IS THE MOST COMMON REASON YOU SEE APPELLATE QUESTIONS CHALLENGED IN COURT.

THE IDEA WITH THE BALLOT QUESTION SYSTEM IS WHAT IS PRESENTED TO A VOTER IN THE BOOTH IS SOMETHING THAT SHOULD BE ONE COHERENT POLICY AND YOUR AVERAGE PERSON CAN LOOK AT IT AND SAY I WANT THAT OR I DON’T WANT THAT.

THE CHALLENGES FOR BOTH BALLOT QUESTIONS OR BOTH SETS OF BALLOT QUESTIONS ARGUES THEY DON’T DO THAT.

THEY MIX TOO MANY DIFFERENT PARTS AND IT WOULD BE A VOTER MIGHT WANT TO SECTION A BUT NOT WANT SECTION B AND NOT BE ABLE TO SQUARE THOSE TWO IDEAS.

WE WILL HEAR FROM THE COURT RELATIVELY SOON.

LONG BEFORE ELECTION DAY WHETHER THOSE ARE ELIGIBLE.

>> I KNOW THERE IS ANOTHER OF THE MANY BALLOT QUESTIONS THAT HAVE POPPED UP IN THIS CYCLE.

THERE IS ANOTHER ONE BEING CHALLENGED.

WHAT IS IT?

>> THAT ONE WOULD PHASE OUT THE LOWER SUBMINIMUM WAGE FOR TIPPED WORKERS AND REPLACE THAT WITH THE STATE’S FULL 15 MILLION -- FULL $15 MINIMUM WAGE.

THE ARGUMENT CRITICS OF THE QUESTION HAVE BROUGHT IS IT ALSO INCLUDES A SECTION ON TIP POOLING THAT WOULD ALLOW A RESTAURANT OWNER TO REQUIRE THAT TIPS BE SHARED BETWEEN ONLY THE WAIT STUFF WOULD ALSO THE DISHWASHERS, THE OTHER FOLKS IN THE BACK OF THE HOUSE.

>> DOES THAT BRING UP THE RELATEDNESS CHALLENGE?

>> WE ARE NOT SURE THE COURT WILL GO ALONG WITH THE.

AND ILLUSTRATES ARGUMENTS THERE WERE A FEW SENSES IN WHICH THE JUSTICES SEEMED TO SAY THIS IS ABOUT THE LAW ON TIPS AND HOW TIPPED WORKERS ARE PAID.

A VOTER COULD LOOK AT THAT AS ONE ISSUE.

WE WILL SEE WHAT THE COURT DECIDES.

>> I ALWAYS HAVE A HARD TIME WHEN I’M WATCHING THOSE ARGUMENTS FIGURING OUT WITH THE JUSTICES ARE THINKING.

JUST TO BE CLEAR ABOUT THIS, THIS MINIMUM WAGE FOR TIPPED WORKERS PROVISION WHICH WE MAY END UP VOTING ON THIS FALL, IT IS WORTH MENTIONING TO PEOPLE UNDER CURRENT LAW YOU ARE SUPPOSED TO GET PAID AT LEAST MINIMUM WAGE IF YOU ARE A WAITER OR A BARTENDER.

IF YOUR TIPS DON’T BRING YOU UP TO MMM WAGE LEVEL OF PAYMENT ON AN HOURLY BASIS, YOU’RE SUPPOSED TO BE COMPENSATED BY YOUR ESTABLISHMENT.

>> IT WOULD FALL TO THE EMPLOYER TO MAKE UP THE DIFFERENCE.

THE IDEA BEHIND THE BALLOT QUESTION IS NO MATTER WHAT YOU WOULD BE MAKING $15 ON ANY TIP YOU HAVE GOT WOULD NOT BRING YOU UP TO THAT BASELINE LEVEL.

THE TIP WOULD BE ON TOP AS A TRUE BONUS.

THE SUPPORTERS SAY THAT THAT WAY, IT IS THE EMPLOYER’S WHO ARE PAYING THE COST OF EMPLOYING THEIR WORKERS.

IT IS NOT ONTO THE CUSTOMER.

THEY ALSO SAY IT IS HARD IN THE RESTAURANT INDUSTRY TO KNOW IF YOU ARE BEING PAID CORRECTLY UNDER THIS MODEL AND THAT LEAVING WORKERS DEPENDENT ON THE CUSTOMERS FOR SO MUCH OF THEIR PAY CREATES A SYSTEM WHERE THEY ARE VULNERABLE TO BAD BEHAVIOR.

>> YOU HAVE TO TAKE ABUSE EFFECTIVELY.

>> RIGHT.

YOU HAVE OTHERS IN THE RESTAURANT INDUSTRY WHO LIKE THE WAY THEY ARE GETTING PAID, WHO ARE -- WHO FEEL AS THOUGH THERE ARE MAKING GOOD MONEY WITH THEIR TIPS AND ARE WARY ABOUT THE IDEA OF TIP POOLING OR JUST DON’T WANT TO CHANGE FROM THE CURRENT SYSTEM.

>>>> I GUESS IF YOU ARE A REALLY TERRIFIC WAITER, WAITRESS, BARTENDER AND THE SYSTEM IS WORKING FOR YOU, WHY BOTHER TO GET RID OF IT?

>> AND IT DEPENDS ON THE TYPE OF PLACE YOU WORK.

THE TYPICAL COST OF A BILL, OF A MEAL OUT VARIES DRAMATICALLY SO I’M SURE THERE ARE VARIATIONS IN WHAT PEOPLE RECEIVE ON ANY GIVEN NIGHT.

>> THANK YOU FOR HELPING ME AND HOPEFULLY SOME VIEWERS UNTANGLE THIS VERY COMPLICATED NOT OF STUFF.

THAT IS IT FOR TONIGHT BUT WE WILL BE BACK TOMORROW.

I’M ADAM REILLY.

THANKS FOR WATCHING AND GOOD NIGHT.

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