>> Braude: TONIGHT ON "GREATER BOSTON," "BOSTON GLOBE" COLUMNIST RENÉE GRAHAM AND GBH SENIOR INVESTIGATIVE REPORTER PHILLIP MARTIN JOIN ME ON THE SPREAD OF THE WHITE SUPREMACIST HATE THAT TOOK 10 MORE LIVES ON SATURDAY AT A BUFFALO NEW YORK GROCERY STORE.

LO GROCERY STORE AND THEN A DOCUMENTARY ODE TO THE BELOVED RESTAURANT CHAIN HORN AND HARDART, THE AUTOMAT FEATURES FAMILIAR US PEOPLE WHO SPENT MANY NICKEL THERE THEN FINALLY A FEW WORDS OF APPRECIATION FOR GRANT WILLIAMS FOR HIS WORK ON THE COURT AND OFF.

>> I'M SAD, I'M HURT, I'M MAD.

BECAUSE I NEVER WOULD HAVE THOUGHT IT WOULD HAVE HAPPENED HERE.

>> THE DIS BELIEF AND PAIN COMING FROM YET ANOTHER COMMUNITY THIS TIME, BUFFALO, WHERE AN 18 YEAR OLD WHITE MAN SHOT AND KILLED TEN PEOPLE AND HURT THREE OTHERS AT A GROCERY STORE IN A PREDOMINANTLY BLACK NEIGHBORHOOD IN THE CITY ON SATURDAY.

116 THE 13 PEOPLE SHOT WERE BLACKED AND POLICE ARE INVESTIGATING IT AS A HATE CRIME.

BEFORE WE GET FURTHER INTO THAT RACIST MASSACRE I WANT TO TAKE A MINUTE TO REMEMBER THE VICTIMS, THOSE WITH FULL LIVES STOLEEN FROM THEM THIS WEEKEND.

67 YEAR OLD HAYWARD PATERSON ITS CHURCH DEACON WHO VOLUNTEERED TO DRIVE PEOPLE WHO DIDN'T HAVE TRANSPORTATION TO THE GROCERY STORE.

77 YEAR OLD PEARL YOUNG A SUBSTITUTE TEACHER WHOSE FAMILY SAYS SHE WAS A PILLAR OF THE COMMUNITY.

>> 55 YEAR OLD AARON SALTER, A SECURITY GUARD AND RETIRED BUFFALO POLICE OFFICER WHO DIED EXCHANGING FIRE WITH THE SHOOTER.

72 YEAR OLD KATHARINE CAT MASSEY WHO WAS KNOWN FOR A CIVIL RIGHTS ADVOCACY AND HAD WRITTEN A LETTER TO A LOCAL NEWSPAPER JUST DAYS BEFORE URGING PASSAGE OF MORE GUN CONTROL.

86 YEAR OLD RUTH WHITFIELD WHO SANG IN HER CHOIR'S PARISH AND HAD BEEN CARING FOR HER HUSBAND WHO WAS IN A NURSING HOME.

32 YEAR OLD ROBERTA DRURY WHOSE FAMILY TOLD "THE NEW YORK TIMES" SHE WAS ALWAYS THE CENTER OF ATTENTION AND MADE THE WHOLE ROOM SMILE.

65 YEAR OLD CHENEY WHOSE FAMILY DESCRIBED HER AS A LOVING MOTHER AND GRANDMOTHER AND QUOTE PROBABLY THE SWEETEST PERSON YOU COULD MEET.

52 YEAR OLD MARRINGUS MOREISON WHO HELPED TAKE CARE OF HIS MOTHER WHO IS DISABLED.

5 APPROXIMATE YEAR OLD ANDRE MacNEIL WHOSE FAMILY CALLED HIM A LOVING GUY WHO WAS AT THE GROT REE STORE TO PICK UP TREATS TO SURPRISE HIS GRANDSON.

AND 26 YEAR OLD GERALDINE TALLY A DEVOTED MOTHER AND GRANDMOTHER WHOSE FAMILY SAYS SHE WAS THE BLEW THAT KEPT THEM ALL TOGETHER.

THE SHOOTER ADMITTED TO POLICE THAT HE SPECIFICALLY TARGETED BLACK SHOPPERS.

AND REPORTEDLY POSTED A MANIESTO JUST DAYS PRIOR FULL OF WHITE SUPREMACIST SICKNESS AND A RACIST CONSPIRACY THEORY KNOWN AS THE GREAT REPLACEMENT WHICH BASEILESSLY CLAIMS NONWHILE PEOPLE ARE BEING BROUGHT TO AMERICA TO QUOTE REPLACE WHITE VOTERS FUELED AT LEAST IN PART BY THE RACIST WORDS AND ACTIONS OF FORMER PRESIDENT DONALD TRUMP THROUGH TRAVEL BANS, IMMIGRATION POLICIES AND DOG WHISTLE AFTER DOG WHIZ THEAL HAVE HELPED NORMALIZE WHITE SUPREMACY TO THE POINT THAT LOCAL GOVERNMENT OFFICIALS RIGHT HERE SEEM TO THINK IT'S FINE TO JOKE ABOUT BRINGING QUOTE DARK FRIENDS TO EVENTS TO PROVE THEY AREN'T RACIST.

AS WE LEARNED LAST WEEK HAPPENED IN EF RED.

I'M JOINED BY RENEE GRAHAM AND GBH NEWS SENIOR INVESTIGATIVE REPORTER PHILIP MARTIN WHO HAS BEEN COVERING WHITES SUPREMACIST GROUPS NATIONALLY AND RIGHT HERE IN MASSACHUSETTS, THANKS FOR BEING HERE.

I APPRECIATE IT.

>> THANK, JIM.

>> RENEE, THIS IS NOT THE FIRST MASS MURDERER MOTIVATED BY THIS KIND OF SICKNESS.

THERE WAS WHAT, 23 PEOPLE KILLED IN THE WAL-MART AT EL PASO.

THE KILLER TALKED ABOUT HISPANIC INNOVATOR, THE SYNAGOGUE IN PITTSBURGH, IMMIGRANT INVADERS, 11 KILLED THERE.

IS THERE ANY REASON TO THINK THIS IS THE END OF THE LINE.

>> OH, NOT AT ALL.

IT IS JUST KEEPS CONTINUING AND CONTINUING.

AND I THINK SOMETHING, A LOT HAS TO CHANGE.

ONE THING WE HAVE TO START WITH IS TO CEASE LOOKING AT THESE AS LONE WOLF ATTACKS.

THEY ARE NOT.

I'M NOT SAYING THAT THEY ALL KNEW EACH OTHER BUT THEY CERTAINLY INFLUENCE EACH OTHER.

YOU CAN SEE IN THE MANIFESTO FROM THE ALLEGED BUFFALO SHOOTER THINGS THAT WERE IN A MANIFESTO WRITTEN BY A MAN IN NEW ZEALAND WHO ATTACKED TWO MOSQUES AND KILLED 50 PEOPLE.

THERE IS A THREAD THAT CONNECTS ALL OF THEM.

THIS IS A CONCERTED EFFORT TO PUSH THIS IDEA OF WHITE REPLACEMENT THEORY WHICH HAS GONE MAINSTREAM, WHICH IS ALWAYS BEEN ON THE FRINGES OF WHITE EXTREMISM BUT IS NOW VERY MUCH PART OF THE MAINSTREAM INCLUDING THE REPUBLICAN PARTY.

>> Braude: I WANT TO TALK ABOUT IT ENTERING THE MAINSTREAM BUT PHILIP, YOUR REPORTING IS SUGGESTING THIS KIND OF SENTIMENTS IS NOT ALIEN TO MASSACHUSETTS EITHER.

>> NOT AT ALL.

WE'RE SEEING IT HERE AND TO RENEE POINT ABOUT THE CONNECTING TISSUE IF YOU WILL OF WHAT THIS MOVEMENT IS, THESE INDIVIDUALS, THEY MAY ACT AS INDIVIDUALS BUT OF COURSE THEY ARE NOT ALONE.

IN OTHER WORDS, THEY'RE NOT LONE WOLVES, THEY'RE CONNECTED BY SOMETHING THAT IS ALSO CALLED WHITE LIVES MATTER WHICH IS A MOVEMENT OF DISPARATE INDIVIDUALS AND GROUPS INCLUDING SOME HERE IN MASSACHUSETTS.

NSC131, SOMETHING CALLED THE NATIONAL SOCIAL CLUB.

THEY ARE A PART OF THIS GROUPING OF WHITE SUPREMACISTS GROUPS THAT RELY ON MAINSTREAM MESSAGING, THAT WHICH HAS BECOME MAINSTREAM MESSAGING, INCLUDING THE GREAT REPLACEMENT THEORY.

NO MATTER WHAT YOU CALL IT.

THE COMMON, CAMUT, RENALL CAMU IN FRANCE COINED THIS THE GREAT REPLACEMENT THEORY AND IT'S TAKING HOLD IN THE UNITED STATES.

REVERBERATED ON FOX NEWS, AND HEARD BY HATE GROUPS, ECHOED BY HATE GROUPS HERE IN MASSACHUSETTS, AS I MENTIONED, NSC131 IS ONE SUCH GROUP.

THEY HAVE BEEN PARADING AROUND THE STATE FOR MORE THAN TWO YEARS NOW.

INCLUDING AT THE RECENT ST. PATRICK'S DAY PARADE.

TRYING TO SCARE PEOPLE.

AND TELLING WHITE PEOPLE THROUGH FLYERS ONLINE, PUBLICATION THROUGH SOCIAL MEDIA, THAT THEY ARE IN FACT IN DANGER OF LOSING THEIR PLACE IN AMERICAN SOCIETY.

A REFERENCE AGAINST THE GREAT REPLACEMENT THEORY THAT RENEE SAID REFLECTED IN REPUBLICAN PARTY TALKING POINTS THESE DAYS.

>> WELL, LET'S HEAR FROM A REPUBLICAN WHO ECHOES BOTH OF YOUR SENTIMENTSES.

THIS IS LIZ CHENEY ON TWITTER THIS MORNING.

THE HOUSE GOP LEADERSHIP HAS ENABLED WHITE NATIONALISM, WHITE SPREM CIVIL AND ANTI-SEMITISM, HISTORY TAUGHT US THAT WHAT BEGINS WITH WORDS ENDS IN FAR WORSE, GOP LEADERS MUST RENOUNCE AND REJECT THESE VIEWS AN THOSE WHO HOLD THEM.

YOU MENTIONED A MINUTE AGO, RENEE THAT THIS USED TO BE FRINGE, EXTREMIST STUFF NOW MAINSTREAM, LAURA INGRAM AND TUCKER CARLSON ON FOX NEWS, MEMBERS OF CONGRESS AS YOU AND LIZ CHENEY MENTIONED.

THE PRESIDENCY, AT LEAST A PRESIDENT.

WHEN DID IT MAKE THE JUMP AND WHY DID IT MAKE THE JUMP FL THE FRINGES TO AS YOU SAY RIGHT IN THE CENTER OF AMERICAN CULTURE?

>> WELL, I THINK THERE ARE TWO THINGS IMPORTANT TO NOTE, JIM, THAT THIS ISN'T NEW.

THAT THIS HAS BEEN GOING ON NOT DECADES BUT FOR CENTURIES.

YOU CAN GO BACK TO THE NEW YORK DRAFT RIOTS IN 1863 AND WHAT DROVE THOSE RIOTS WAS THE IDEA THAT WHITES FEARED THAT HE MANS PAITED BLACK PEOPLE WOULD THAIK THEIR JOBS, THAT THEY WOULD BE REPLACED BY EMANCIPATED BLACK PEOPLE, THAT SET OFF A RACE MASSACRE IN NEW YORK THAT KILLED 1,000 PEOPLE, MOST OF WHOM WERE BLACK WHO WERE EITHER BEATEN TO DEATH OR LYNCHED.

THIS ISN'T NEW.

WHERE THINGS CHANGED WAS 2015 WHEN DONALD TRUMP RAN FOR PRESIDENT AND HE KEPT STRESSING THIS POINT, WE ARE GOING TO TAKE BACK THE COUNTRY.

WHICH WAS THE IDEA THAT SOMETHING THAT BELONGED TO CERTAIN PEOPLE HAVE BEEN STOLEEN FROM THEM.

ONCE HE BECAME PRESIDENT HE DOUBLED DOWN AND TRIPLE DOWN ON THAT IDEA.

AND THAT GAVE IT CREEDENCE, THAT GAVE IT LEGITIMACY AND THAT ALLOWED A LOT OF PEOPLE WHO MIGHT HAVE THOUGHT THIS IN THE BACK OF THEIR MINDS TO SUDDENLY SAY IT OUT LOUD.

SO THE LINES FROM DONALD TRUMP TO HAVING, SITTING SENATORS AND REPRESENTATIVES SAYING THIS, TO HEARING IT IN PRIME TIME EVERY SINGLE NIGHT ON TELEVISION, YOU KNOW, ISN'T THAT HARD TO BELIEVE BUT THAT'S THE PROBLEM, YOU KNOW, ONCE A PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES IS SAYING IT, AND A LOT IN THE MEDIA DIDN'T WANT TO CONFRONT IT, THEY WERE TALKING ABOUT ECONOMIC ANXIETY AND NOT THE RACISM THAT WAS BEHIND IT, THAT LEGITIMIZED THIS MOVEMENT.

>> I WANT TO SAY STAY WITH YOU FOR A SECOND, RENEE, HE WASN'T TALKING ABOUT ECONOMIC ANXIETY TWO YEARS LATER AFTER CHARLOTTESVILLE, HERE IS WHAT WAS BEING SAID IN CHARLOTTESVILLE AND HERE IS THE INFAMOUS RESPONSE FROM TRUMP, HERE IT IS.

>> YOU WILL NOT REPLACE US, JEWS WILL NOT REPLACE US.

>> YOU ALSO HAD PEOPLE THAT WERE VERY FINE PEOPLE, ON BOTH SIDES.

>> Braude: THAT WAS ITS TIPPING POINT FOR PEOPLE WHO HAD BEEN DISCONNECTED TO THIS, RENEE.

WAS IT NOT?

THAT WAS THE INVITATION IN, WASN'T IT?

>> OKAY, ABSOLUTELY.

ABSOLUTELY.

YOU KNOW, I CAN REMEMBER AFTER-- TRUMP SPOKE AND HE SPOKE MEETLY AFTER WHAT -- IMMEDIATELY AFTER WHAT HAPPENED IN CHARLOTTESVILLE, DAVID DUKE CONGRATULATED HIM, HE WAS HAPPY TRUMP DID NOT CALL THEM OUT.

THAT WAS AFFIRMATION FOR THOSE PEOPLE.

AND THAT IS EXACTLY WHAT TRUMP DID.

AND EVERY TIME THE MEDIA REFUSED TO PUSH BACK, REFUSED TO CALL TRUMP OUT ON HIS RACISM, EVEN CALL HIM A RACIST, THEY ALSO GAVE A CREEDENCE AND GAVE IT POWER.

>> Braude: SPEAKING OF THE MED YARKS YOU MENTION FOX NEWS STILL UP.

I WANT TO PLAY A SECOND OF TUCKER CARLSON, IF PEOPLE HAVEN'T SEEN THIS "THE NEW YORK TIMES" ABOUT A WEEK AGO DID A BRILLIANT ANALYSIS OF ALL THE SHOWS THAT CARLSON HAS DONE.

AND THEY DOCUMENTED ON AT LEAST 400 SEGMENTS.

HE TALKED ABOUT THAT WHICH HE SAID HE NEVER ADVANCED WHICH IS THE GREAT REPLACEMENT THEORY, WHITE SUPREMACY, HERE IS JUST ONE EXAMPLE FROM EARLIER IN THE YEAR.

>> EVER WANTS TO MAKE A RACIAL ISSUE OUT OF IT, THE WHITE REPLACEMENT THEORY, NO, NO, NO.

THIS IS A VOTING RIGHTS QUESTION.

I HAVE LESS POLITICAL POWER BECAUSE THEY ARE IMPORTING A BRAND NEW ELECTORATE.

WHY SHOULD I SIT BACK AND TAKE THAT.

>> Braude: SOMEONE'S TEKSD US ON THE RADIO AND SAID YOU KNOW, HE SAY TOP RATED SHOW.

BUT ST ONLY SO MANY MILLION PEOPLE.

AND ANOTHER LISTENER DIRECTED US TO A GOOGLE, AN ANALYSIS GOOGLE HAD DONE THAT TALKED ABOUT THE THREE SPITES EVER IN SEARCHING FOR WHITE SUPREMACY, ONE OF THE THREE WAS AFTER PEOPLE HAD CALLED FOR TUCKER CARLSON TO BE FIRED BECAUSE OF THOSE KINDS OF STATEMENTS.

SO THERE IS A DIRECT LINE BETWEEN CARLSON'S MOUTH AND THIS INFECTING HAS AS BROAD A SPECTRUM IN CULTURE AS IT WHAT.

>> ABSOLUTELY, THESE THINGS ARE AMPLIFIED.

TUXER CARLSON MAY HAVE 3 MILLION VIEWERS ON ANY GIVEN NIGHT, FOR EXAMPLE.

THAT IS AMPLIFIED MANY TIMES OVER ON SOCIAL MEDIA.

WILL YOU SEE THAT ON TWITTER.

YOU WILL SEE THAT IN SOCIAL MEDIA, ON SOCIAL MEDIA PLATFORMS PREFERRED BY THE FAR RIGHT.

SUCH AS TELEGRAPH AND SO IT IS NOT A QUESTION OF WHETHER OR NOT IT IS SIMPLY CONFINED, IF YOU WILL, TO ONE SHOW.

BECAUSE IT ISN'T.

IT IS AMPLIFIED.

THE SAME THING IS TRUE WITH HATE GROUPS, FOR EXAMPLE, IN MASSACHUSETTS.

AND FOR THAT MATTER, RHODE ISLAND AND ACROSS NEW ENGLAND.

THEY MAY IN FACT REPRESENT ABOUT 20, 30 PEOPLE AT MOST.

AND HAVE A DEMONSTRATION 20, PO PEOPLE AT MOST.

BUT WHAT THEY ARE SAYING IS OFTEN AMPLIFIED.

THE PATRIOT FRONT, FOR EXAMPLE, ANOTHER GROUP, ANOTHER WHITE SUPREMACIST GROUP, RATHER, HERE IN MASSACHUSETTS, AND IN NEW ENGLAND.

THEY HAVE PUT A POSTERS AND BANNERS THROUGHOUT THE AREA, AGAIN TALKING ABOUT THE VICTIMIZATION OF WHITE PEOPLE BECAUSE OF POLICIES OF EQUITY AND DIVERSITY.

HAVE I SEEN THE COMMENTS IN NEWSPAPERS, LOCAL NEWSPAPERS DEFENDING THEM SAYING HOW YOU CAN IN FACT DESCRIBE THEM AS WHITE SUPREMACISTS BECAUSE THEY ARE IN FACT SAYING WHAT WE BELIEVE.

AND SO YOU HAVE COMMENTS THAT ARE ESSENTIALLY REVERBERATED WITHIN-- WITHIN-- BY THESE GROUPS.

AS RENEE SAID, AT ANY OTHER TIME IN THE PAST MIGHT HAVE SEEMED EXTREME POST CIVIL RIGHTS BUT HAVE NOW MADE THEIR WAY INTO THE MAINSTREAM WITHOUT QUESTION.

>> Braude: YOU KNOW RENEE, THERE HAS BEEN SOME CONVERSATION OF THE WEAPON THAT THIS GUY IS USING.

ONE OF THE PERVERSE PARTS OF THIS IS YOU KNOW, THE BS LINE FROM THE NRA ADS ALL THE TIME, THE WAY TO PREVENT THIS IS JUST ARM EVERYBODY.

AND OF COURSE A ROHR-- AARON SALTER, THE GUARD WAS ARMED, SHOT AT THIS KILLER, HE HAD BODY ARMOUR ON AND THEN THE KILLER ENDED THE LIFE OF AARON SALTER.

IT SEEMS TO ME EVEN IF GUN CONTROL WAS IN THE MIX WHICH IT SURELY IS NOT, IT DOESN'T CURE THE DISEASE THAT YOU ARE BOTH DESCRIBES, WHAT IMSH IMSH-- WHAT DOES?

>> YOU KNOW, I THINK A FEW THINGS.

I DO I THAT THIS IS YET ANOTHER TIME TO HAVE A CONVERSATION ABOUT GUN REFORM AND HOW IT IS THAT AN 18 YEAR OLD COULD NOT BUY A PACK OF CIGARETTES LEGALLY BUT COULD BUY A WEAPON OF WAR, NOT TO MENTION BODY ARMOUR.

BUT I ALSO THINK, AND I WAS-- THROUGHOUT THE WEEKEND, AT SOME POINT WHITE PEOPLE IN THIS COUNTRY NEED TO CARRY THIS LOAD.

IT IS TOO MUCH TO ASK OF BLACK PEOPLE AND BROWN PEOPLE AND JEWS TO HAVE TO CONSTANTLY DEAL WITH THIS WHILE BEING TARGETED AND BURYING THEIR DEAD.

PEOPLE NEED TO TALK TO THEIR FAMILIES.

PEOPLE NEED TO SEE WHAT IS GOING ON WITH THEIR KIDS BECAUSE A LOT OF THESE PEOPLE WHO ARE DOING THESE THINGS ARE QUITE YOUNG.

THIS GUY WAS 18.

ITS SHOOTER IN CHARLOTTESVILLE WAS-- THE SHOOTER IN.

>> CHARLESTON, SOUTH CAROLINA WAS IN HIS EARLY 20S.

THIS SAY PROBLEM.

AND IT CANNOT BE ONLY CARRIED BY THE PEOPLE WHO ARE TARGETED.

THIS IS NOT A BLACK PROBLEM.

THIS SAN AMERICAN PROBLEM.

AND I BELIEVE THAT ALL AMERICANS INCLUDING WHITE PEOPLE WHO MIGHT FEEL LIKE THEY CAN STITT ON THE SIDELINES BECAUSE THEY ARE NOT RACIST, THAT IS NOT GOOD ENOUGH ANY MORE BECAUSE WHAT IS HAPPENING IS GOING TO IMPACT THEM AS WELL.

>> Braude: I LITERALLY HAVE PO SECONDS, ILL IF, ST YOURS.

>> I WANT TO ADD TO THAT.

A PSYCHOLOGIST I SPOKE TO SAID IT IS A SLIPPERY SLOPE TO GO FROM, FOR EXAMPLE, FRANKLIN HIGH SCHOOL RECENTLY SHOUTING ANTISEMITIC RACIST COMMENTS AND TO DESCENDING INTO WHITE SUPREMACY, AND POSSIBLY EVEN JOINING THESE GROUPS.

AND SO FOLKS, PATIENTS,-- PARENTS, EVERYONE HAS TO WATCH WHAT YOUR KIDS ARE WATCHING AND SEEING ONLINE BECAUSE THAT IS ANOTHER SOURCE OF HATE.

>> Braude: AND WHEN YOU HAVE POLITICIANS LIKE WE HAVE IN EVERETT WHO USE THE "N" WORD AND TALK ABOUT INVITING THEIR DARK FRIEND TO SHOW THAT THEY ARE NOT RACIST.

>> EXACTLY.

>> Braude: YOU'VE GOT TO DEAL WITH THAT RIGHT IN YOUR OWN BACKYARD SWVMENT RENEE GRAHAM, PHILIP MARTIN AS ALWAYS, THANK YOU SO MUCH.

>> THANK YOU, JIM.

>> THANK YOU, JIM.

>> NEXT UP, IF YOU ARE A PERSON OF A CERTAIN AGE OR EVER SPENT SIGNIFICANT TIME IN NEW YORK CITY OR MY HOMETOWN OF PHILLIE, THE NEXT TWO WORDS WILL BRING A WAVE OF NOSTALGIA.

THE AUTO MAT.

FOR THE REST OF YOU.

A NEW DOCUMENTARY TELLS YOU ALL ABOUT WHAT YOU MISSED OUT ON, THE BELOVED RESTAURANT CHAIN BROUGHT TO US BY TWO MEN, HORN AND HARDART, YOU WALKED IN, SHOVED A NICKEL INTO A COIN SLOT OF YOUR CHOICE, TURNED A NOBODY AND OPENED A LITTLE DOOR TO RETRIEVE SOME OF THE BEST FOOD AND DRINKS ON THE PLANET AS COMEDIAN MEL BROOKS PAYS TRIBUTE TO IN THE FILM IN A SONG HE WROTE FOR THE FILM.

>> THERE WAS NOTHING LIKE THE COFFEE AT THE AUTOMAT.

ITS AROMA AND ITS FLAVOR WERE SUPREME.

♪ FROM A SILVER DOLPHIN SPOWT.

♪ THE COFFEE POURED RIGHT OUT.

♪ NOT TO MENTION.

♪ AT THE END A LITTLE SPURT OF CREAM.

♪.

>> THE DOCUMENTARY IS CALLED, WHAT ELSE "THE AUTOMAT AND THE FILMMAKER BEHIND IT IS LISA HURWITZ, CONGRATULATIONS, IT'S GREAT TO MEET YOU.

>> THANK YOU SO MUCH.

I'M SO EXCITED THE FILM JUST OPENED IN BOSTON.

>> Braude: WE'LL TELL PEOPLE WHERE THEY CAN GO CHECK IT OUT.

BY THE WAY, I WENT MAYBE 300 TIMES WHEN I WAS A KID, TRIED TO DO A CALCULATION LAST NIGHT.

I DIDN'T MAKE THE FILM, YOU NEVER WENT BUT YOU DID.

SO WHAT WAS THE MOTIVATION?

>> IT IS SO RANDOM BUT I LOVED EATING IN MY COLLEGE CAFETERIA.

IT WAS A REALLY WONDERFUL PLACE FOR ME.

AND I STARTED RESEARCHING CAFETERIAS IN MY SCHOOL LIBRARY AND THAT WAS WHERE I FOUND OUT ABOUT HORN AND HARDART AUTOMAT, MI FROM THE WEST COAST.

MY FOLKS ARE NOT EAST COAST PEOPLE.

WE DIDN'T KNOW ABOUT IT.

SO IT WAS JUST THIS INCREDIBLE DISCOVERY.

AND I WAS NEVER ABLE TO FORGET IT.

SO IT HAS BEEN QUITE AWHILE SINCE I FIRST LEARNED ABOUT THE AUTOMAT.

BUT IT STUCK WITH ME.

AND AT A CERTAIN POINT I STARTED WORKING ON THIS DOCUMENTARY, NOT KNOWING WHAT IT WAS GOING TO REALLY TURN INTO.

AND THE TYPES OF FOLKS THAT WERE GOING TO ULTIMATELY BECOME A PART OF IT.

>> Braude: WE'LL TALK ABOUT THOSE FOLKS IN A COUPLE OF SECONDS BUT FOR THOSE WHO NEVER HAD THE PLEASURE OR HAVEN'T SEEN THE FILM YET, COULD YOU JUST DESCRIBE THE BIG PICTURE, THIS IS NOT LIKE ANY CAFETERIA THAT SOMEBODY WATCHING THE SHOW EVER WENT TO DESCRIBE THE BIG SCENE AND THEN THE WALL.

>> ALL RIGHT.

>> SO WE'RE TALKING ABOUT THESE LARGE, BEAUTIFUL SPACES.

WHERE PEOPLE WOULD SPEND ACTUALLY A GOOD CHUNK OF THEIR LIVES.

WOULD YOU GO ALL THE TIME TO EAT AT THE AUTOMAT AND THEY WERE ALL OVER NEW YORK CITY.

THERE WERE HORN AND HARDARTS ALL OVER PHILADELPHIA.

nd YOU WOULD GO IN THERE, GIVE YOUR DOLLAR TO A CASHIER AND THE CASHIER WITHOUT EVEN LOOKING WOULD JUST CONVERT YOUR DOLLAR INTO 20 NICKELS AND THIS WAS THE VERY FAMOUS NICKEL THROWER.

YOU THEN WOULD PROCEED TO THESE WALLS LINED WITH BEAUTIFUL CARERA GLASS MARBLE VENDING MACHINES WHERE YOU WOULD PUT YOUR NICKEL INTO A SLOT AND TAKE YOUR FOOD OUT OF A LITTLE GLASS CUBBY.

AND SO THIS IS WHAT REALLY SET APART HORN AND HARDART'S CAFETERIA FROM ALL THE OTHERS.

IT WAS THE AUTOMAT.

>> WELL, ALSO HIGH CEILINGS MARBLE TABLES, CHROME AROUND THE LITTLE WINDOWS AND ON THE NOBODY.

IT WAS UNBELIEVABLE.

YOU MENTIONED THE FOLKS IN YOUR FILM.

HERE ARE JUST A COUPLE OF CONVERSATIONS YOU HAD WITH A FEW PEOPLE, WHO I'M GUESSING PEOPLE WILL RECOGNIZE, LEER IT IS.

>> IT WAS A GOOD PLACE TO EAT, THE FOOD WAS DELICIOUS.

THE PRICES WERE RIGHT.

THERE WERE ALL KINDS OF PEOPLE FROM POOR PEOPLE TO MAT RONES IN FURS.

>> THIS PHOTO WAS TAKEN WHEN I WAS ABOUT SEVEN YEARS OLD, LIVING IN THE SOUTH BRONX, IMMIGRANT FAMILY, NOT MAKING A GREAT DEAL OF MONEY.

SO YOU HAVE TO UNDERSTAND WE ALMOST NEVER WENT TO A RESTAURANT SO GOING TO AN AUTOMAT WAS NOT JUST THE EXPERIENCE OF SEEING THIS MEK ANIZED FOOD DELIVERY SYSTEM T WAS GOING TO A RESTAURANT.

>> IN THE '60S THERE WAS A GROUP THAT WE ORGANIZED, WE MET ON THE SECOND FLOOR OF HORN AND HARDARTS AT 159 AND MARKET WHERE THERE WERE IDEAS ABOUT WHAT COULD HAPPEN IF WE WORKED HARD ENOUGH IT WAS THE BIRTHS OF THE BLACK POLITICAL MOVEMENT IN PHILADELPHIA WHICH LEAD TO MY BEING ABLE TO RUN FOR MAYOR OF PHILADELPHIA.

>> I HAVE NEVER STOPPED THREADING EVERYTHING WE'VE DONE AT STARBUCKS WITH THAT INITIAL EXPERIENCE.

>> HOW DO YOU CREATE THAT LEVEL OF THEATRE, EXCITEMENT, SURPRISE AND DELIGHT?

>> YOU SHOULD TREAT THE PEOPLE OF STARBUCKS AS WELL AS HORN AND HARDARTS TREATED THEIR OTHER THAN EMPLOYEES.

ONE OF THE COMMENTS READ THROUGH THOSE INTERVIEWS PARTICULARLY WITH BADER GINSBURG AND KOL INPOWELL AND GOODE BUT OTHERS AS WELL, THIS IS LIKE THE GREAT LEVELER, RICH AND POOR, BLACK AND WHITE, ESSENTIALLY IT WAS DEMOCRACY AT ITS BEST S THAT A FAIR WAY TO DESCRIBE IT?

>> IT IS.

AND ONE OF THE GREATEST THINGS ABOUT THE AUTOMAT WAS HOW IT WAS JUST GOOD ENOUGH FOR EVERYONE.

COULD YOU FIND ALL KINDS OF PEOPLE THERE.

IT WAS THIS INCREDIBLE PRIVATE SPACE THAT REALLY ACTED LIKE A PUBLIC SPACE.

PEOPLE WOULD JUST GO THERE, THERE WAS NOTHING EM BAR RAISING ABOUT IT EVEN THOUGH IT WAS INCREDIBLY CHEAP IT WAS SUCH HIGH QUALITY IN EVERY WAY.

>> SO WOMEN WERE JUST STARTING TO ENTER THE WORKFORCE WHEN HORN AND HARDART, H & H AS I CALL IT AS A KIRKSD THE AUTO MAT EXPLODED.

WOMEN FELT SAFE THERE.

EXPLAIN THAT A LITTLE BIT.

>> SO WE ARE TALKK TURN OF THE CENTURY.

WOMEN DIDN'T USED TO GO OUT ON THEIR OWN TO EAT.

BUT WOMEN NEEDED A PLACE TO GO EAT BECAUSE THEY WERE STARTING TO WORK PARTICULARLY AS SECRETARIES, AS STENOGRAPHERS, AND SO THAT IS REALLY WHEN THE CAFETERIA BECAME A THING.

THEY WERE RESTAURANTS FOR WOMEN.

AND THERE WERE SO MANY CAFETERIAS BUT REALLY HORN AND HARDARTS OUTLIVED THE OTHERS AND STOOD OUT BECAUSE THEY HAD SOMETHING THAT THE OTHERS DIDN'T.

AND OF COURSE HORN AND HARDARTS APPEARED IN SO MANY FILMS AND TELEVISION SHOWS OVER THE COURSE OF ITS LIFE AND EVEN, YOU KNOW, TO THIS DAY IT CONTINUES TO MAKE APPEARANCES.

THERE REALLY WAS NOT ANOTHER CAFETERIA WITH THE CACHE OF THE AUTOMAT.

>> IT WASN'T JUST WOMEN, IMMIGRANTS AS YOU SAY IN YOUR FILM DIDN'T HAVE TO SPEAK THE LANGUAGE BECAUSE ALL YOU NEEDED TO DO WAS ASK FOR NICKELS AND POP THEM INTO THE SLOT.

AND I LOVE MEL BOOKS LINE.

THE OTHER REASON HE LOVED IT, NO TIP WHICH WAS A BIG DEAL AS WELL.

ALSO THEIR REPUTATION, THIS IS HORN AND HARDARTS, THE FOUNDERS OF THIS THING, OF TREATING THE WORKERS THERE, PARTICULARLY WELL.

YOU INTERVIEW THIS GUY, APACHE RAMOS WHO WORKED THERE A LONG PERIOD OF TIME.

IT IS PRETTY CLEAR THAT THERE WAS THIS INCREDIBLY LOYAL RELATIONSHIP IN BOTH DIRECTIONS, NO?

>> SCHEUTLY.

AND SOMETHING THAT THE-- ABSOLUTELY AND COMPANY THAT THE COMPANY HAD WHICH I LOVED WAS A 25 YEAR OLD CLUB.

AND THEY HAD A LOT OF EMPLOYEES WHO WERE A MEMBER OF THIS GROUP THAT WOULD DO ACTIVITIES TOGETHER THAT HAD BEEN WITH THE COMPANY FOR MORE THAN 25 YEARS.

>> Braude: WHY DID IT COME APART AT THE SEEMS WHEN IT FINALLY DID?

WE SHOULD SAY BY THE WAY EVEN THOUGH IT WAS ONLY IN TWO CITIES T WAS THE LARGEST RESTAURANT CHAIN IN AMERICA AT THE TIME.

EVEN THOUGH PHILLIE AND NEW YORK WERE ITS ONLY HOMES YVMENT DID IT COME APART WHEN IT DID?

>> WELL, IT IS TRUE, JUST BY SHEER VOLUME THE AMOUNT OF BUSINESS THEY WERE DOING IN THESE TWO CITIES PUT THEM AS NUMBER ONE IN THE COUNTRY, ONLY TO BE REPLACED BY MCDONALD'S.

THEY HAD A HUGE BATTLE, ITS WORLD COMPLETELY CHANGED AND THEY REALLY WERE NOT PREPARED FOR IT I THINK NOW ADAYS RESTAURANTS ARE FORECASTING INTO THE FUTURE, THE WHEN I INTERVIEWED HIM FROM STARBUCKS, SOMETHING THAT HE SAID TO ME THAT I WILL NEVER FORGET IS THAT HE DOESN'T TAKE HIS SUCCESS FOR GRANTED AND THAT EVERY DAY HE FEETS FOR IT AND THEY'RE PROJECTING VERY FAR INTO THE FUTURE IN TERMS OF ANTICIPATING HOW EVERYTHING IS GOING TO CHANGE AND HORN AND HARDARTS WAS JUST A VERY AT THE END OF THE DAY KIND OF A MOM AND POP, MEL BROOKS USED THE WORD NAIVE AND INNOCENT TO DESCRIBE THE AUTOMAT AND I THINK SO WERE THE EXECUTIVES OF THE COMPANY.

BECAUSE AFTER WORLD WAR II, AMERICANS CHANGED.

THEY LEFT THE CITIES.

THEY WANTED A DIFFERENT KIND OF DINING EXPERIENCE.

AND ALL OF A SUDDEN THEY WILL A SLEW OF COMPETITION.

>>Braude: BY THE WAY MEL BROOKS NOT ONLY SINGS THAT SONG, IS HE ALL OVER THE FILM, INCLUDING TELLING LISA HOW TO MAKE THE MOVIE IN THE MOVIE ITSELF.

ONE OF MY OTHER FAVORITE MOVIES, LISA, I THOUGHT YOU WERE JOKING WHEN THE LITTLE SCRIPTER UNDER THIS GUY'S NAME SAID AUTOMAT HISTORIAN.

THIS IS WHAT THIS GUY STUDIED AS AN ACADEMIC.

HERE SAY LITTLE BIT OF YOUR EXCHANGE WITH HIM.

>> HOW DID YOU PICK THAT FOR YOUR Ph.D DISSERTATION.

>> THAT IS NOT A-- SO THAT, I CHOSED THE AUTO MAT AS A TOPIC, I WAS STUDYING TO BECOME A HISTORIAN OF TECH NOLG, I NEEDED A TOPIC FOR MY DISSERTATION AND I WAS IN AMSTERDAM WHEN I STUMMABLED ACROSS THE AUTO MATIQUE, THAT TRIGGERED THIS VAGUE MEMORY BECAUSE MY PARENTS TOOK ME TO ONE OF THIS RESTAURANT THAT I THOUGHT HAD HAD THE SAME SORT OF MACHINE.

>> AND IT TURNS OUT HE SAID IT WAS HORN AND HARDART, SO LISA, HOW MUCH DO YOU REGRET YOU NEVER GOT TO PUT IN A NICKEL AND TAKE OUT A PUMPKIN PIE WHICH WAS MY SECOND FAVORITE, BAKED BEANS IN A CROCKPOT WHICH WAS MY NUMBER ONE FAVORITE.

HOW MUCH DO YOU REGRET THAT YOU WILL NEVER HAVE THAT EXPERIENCE EXCEPT ON FILM?

>> YOU KNOW, EVERY TIME I DO A Q & A IT ALWAYS COMES UP THAT I AM SO JEL US OF EVERYONE WHO HAS THESE MEMORIES.

I WOULD BE THERE EVERY DAY, I THINK IT WOULD BE A WONDERFUL THING TO HAVE IN MY LIFE.

>> BY ITS WAY, I WAS THERE EVERY DAY AND I'M REALLY SAD I'M NOT IN YOUR FILM BUT I'M SO GLAD TO SEE IT.

TERRIFIC FILM, EVERYBODY SHOULD SIGH IT, THANKS FOR YOUR TIME.

YOU CAN CATCH THE AUTOMAT PLAYING NOW AT COOLIDGE THEATER, TS ALSO AT THE WEST NEWTON CINEMA ON FRIDAY AND ON VIDEO ON DEMAND IN JULY.

FINALLY TONIGHT CONGRATULATION TOES CELTICS FORWARD GRANT WILLIAMS WHO LEAD THE TEAM TO I A GAME 7 WIN OVER THE BUCKS IN THE EASTERN CONFERENCE SEMIFINALS YESTERDAY.

IN THE PROCESS HE BROKE AN NBA RECORD FOR MOST THREE POINTERS ATTEMPTED IN A GAME 7 AND TIED THE RECORD FOR MOST 3S SCOORED MAKING SELF BE OUT OF 18 SHOTS THO WILLIAMS HASN'T JUST BEEN DOING BIG THINGS FOR BOSTON ON THE COULTER, AS WE LEARNED WHEN HE JOINED ME LAST SPRING, HE HAS BEEN DOING HIS PART OFF THE COURT AS WELL, WORKING TO CONVINCE PEOPLE TO GET THAT COVID-19 VACCINE.

I FELT LIKE IT WAS THE SAFEST ROUTE POSSIBLE FOR US TO GET BACK NOT ONLY INTO NORMAL BUT ALSO TO PROTECT THE PEOPLE WE CARE ABOUT.

BECAUSE COVID, I'VE SEEN IT AFFECT MANY OTHER-- MANY CLOSE TO MY HEART WHETHER IT WAS WITH ILLNESS, WITH DEATH OR EVEN WITH THE SYMPTOMS THAT DIDN'T SEEM LIKE THEY WERE NECESSARY OR WANTED BY ANY MEANS.

IT WAS JUST A NECESSARY THING THAT I FELT LIKE WOULD HELP NOT ONLY MY COMMUNITY THAT I'M PART OF, BUT ALSO THIS WORLD THAT WE'RE IN.

>> I DID MENTION HE'S 23?

WHAT AN IMPRESSIVE YOUNG LEADER IN MORE WAYS THAN ONE.

AND I JUST MIGHT KNOW WHERE HE GETS IT FROM.

YOU MENTIONED YOUR MOTHER GETTING THE VACCINE.

SHE WORKS AT NASA.

HE IS SHE AN ENGINEER AT NASA.

>> ELECTRICAL ENGINEER, CORRECT.

>> HOW EXCITED WAS SHE BY THE MARS LANDING OH, SHE WAS-- SHE'S BEEN SENDING ME EMAILS ABOUT EVERYTHING.

SHE TRIES TO KEEP ME INFORMED WHETHER IT IS NOT ONLY WITH NASA BUT ALSO SPACEX, IN TERMS OF ALL THE DIFFERENT THINGS THAT ARE GOING TO HAPPEN IN THE FUTURE I KNOW THEY'VE BEEN WORKING FOR COMMERCIAL TRAVELS TO SPACE FOR THE LONGEST.

SO THERE'S A LOT OF EXCITING THINGS TO COME AND I THINK THAT IT'S A BRIGHT FUTURE AHEAD.

>> AND A BRIGHT FUTURE FOR THEM BOTH.

THAT'S IT FOR TONIGHT.

WE'LL BE BACK TOMORROW, THANK YOU FOR WATCHING, PLEASE STAY SAFE.

Captioned by Media Access Group at WGBH access.wgbh.org