>> Haynes: TONIGHT ON "GREATER BOSTON," I'M CRYSTAL HAYNES, IN FOR JIM BRAUDE.

PRESIDENT BIDEN CALLED FOR WIDESPREAD STUDENT LOAN FORGIVENESS ON THE CAMPAIGN TRAIL, BUT HIS VOTERS ARE STILL WAITING.

WAITING.

SOME ARGUE HE NEEDS TO TAKE ACTION NOW, WHILE OTHERS HOPE HE DOESN'T FOLLOW THROUGH.

THE TWO SIDES DEBATE, AHEAD.

THEN LATER, THE GROUP BOSTON WHILE BLACK JUST HELD THEIR INAUGURAL SUMMIT.

ONE OF THE GROUP'S EARLIEST MEMBERS, BOSTON'S DIRECTOR OF COMMUNITY ENGAGEMENT AND COMMUNICATIONS, AYANNA POLK, AND SPARK FM FOUNDER DANIELLE JOHNSON JOIN ME.

♪ ♪ >> Haynes: IN 2020, THEN-PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE JOE BIDEN BEAT DONALD TRUMP IN MASSACHUSETTS BY MORE THAN 30 POINTS.

BUT A YEAR AND A HALF INTO HIS PRESIDENCY, PEOPLE IN THIS STATE SEEM TO BE PULLING BACK ON THEIR SUPPORT OF BIDEN.

THAT'S ACCORDING TO A NEW POLL OUT OF SUFFOLK UNIVERSITY, WHICH FOUND JUST 46% OF REGISTERED VOTERS HERE APPROVE OF THE JOB THE PRESIDENT IS DOING, AND CLOSE TO HALF ARE CONCERNED ABOUT THEIR PERSONAL FINANCIAL SITUATION OR EMPLOYMENT.

AND WHILE SKYROCKETING INFLATION CERTAINLY PLAYS A ROLE IN THAT, STUDENT LOANS IS A FACTOR FOR MANY, TOO.

IN 2020, PRESIDENT BIDEN DECLARED HIS SUPPORT FOR CANCELLING DEBT FOR MILLIONS OF FEDERAL STUDENT LOAN BORROWERS IN THE COUNTRY.

>> IMMEDIATE $10,000 FORGIVENESS OF STUDENT LOANS.

IT SHOULD BE DONE IMMEDIATELY.

>> Haynes: BUT SINCE THEN, HIS SENSE OF URGENCY AND INTENSITY SEEMS TO HAVE DIMINISHED.

>> I AM CONSIDERING DEALING WITH SOME DEBT REDUCTION.

>> Haynes: I'M JOINED BY MICHAEL D. COHEN, THE C.E.O.

OF COHEN RESEARCH GROUP, AND A LECTURER AT JOHNS HOPKINS UNIVERSITY.

ALSO WITH US IS ALANA SEMUELS, A SENIOR ECONOMICS CORRESPONDENT FOR "TIME" MAGAZINE.

THANK YOU BOTH FOR BEING WITH US TONIGHT.

>> THANK YOU.

CRFER IN A RECENT ARTICLE YOU WROTE FOR THE HILL, YOU ASKED AN IMPORTANT QUESTION HERE.

WHICH AS IF BIDEN CAN DO IT ON HIS OWN, WHY NOT DO IT?

I WONDER IF YOU COULD SPEAK A LITTLE BIT ABOUT THAT.

>> FIRST OF ALL THANKS FOR HAVING US ON.

THIS IS A GREAT DISCUSSION, IT'S FUN HAVING IT ON NPR, WE CAN TALK A COUPLE OF MINUTES AS OPPOSED TO A COUPLE OF SECONDS.

THERE ARE THREE BIG ISSUES WHEN IT COMES TO THE POLITICS OF THIS, THERE IS THE INFLATIONARY ISSUE, THERE IS COST AND THERE IS ALSO A SORT OF CULTURE/RESPONSIBILITY I WOULD SAY FOR THIS.

INFLATION RIGHT NOW, IF YOU GIVE MORE.PEOPLE MONEY INTO THE SYSTEM, IT IS OF COURSE GOING TO MAKE MORE PEOPLE HAPPY AND OF COURSE GIVE THEM MORE OPPORTUNITY TO GO AHEAD AND SPEND MONEY BUT IT'S GO AHEAD GOING TO GO AHEAD AND INCREASE INFLATION.

YOU AREN'T TAKING CARE OF THE REAL PROBLEM WITH THIS WHICH IS ACTUALLY THE TUITION COSTS.

YOU'RE NOT GOING TO REDUCE ANY OF THAT, IF ANYTHING YOU'RE GOING TO GIVE UNIVERSITIES ANOTHER INCENTIVES TO RAISE RATES, THINKING THAT STUDENTS WILL BE FOREVERREN AT SOME FOREVER -- FORGIVEN AT SOME POINT.

UNDERREPORTED/UNDERPOLLED ISSUE, KIDS WHO HAVE SAVED TO GO TO COLLEGE AND THE IDEA OF THEY DON'T WANT TO CARRY THE DEBT THAT THEY KNOW OTHER PEOPLE ARE BRINGING WITH THEM THEN ALL OF A SUDDEN THEY'RE TOLD THAT TENS OF THOUSANDS OF DOLLARS GOING TO BE FORGIVEN FOR THOSE PEOPLE WHO DIDN'T MAKE NOTICES CHOICES, THEN WHAT DO YOU SAY TO THOSE PEOPLE?

AND THAT REALLY IS SORT OF BREAKING THE LONG TERM CONTRACT THAT YOU HAVE WITH PEOPLE, WHICH IS IF YOU WORK HARD AND YOU PLAY BY THE RULES, EVERYTHING WILL BE FAIR IN THE END.

IF YOU ARE FOREGIVING DEBT FOR PEOPLE WHO DID NOT MAKE THE SAME CHOICES YOU MADE, THEN YOU'RE REALLY PUTTING THAT YOU KNOW IN A TOUGH SPOT.

NOW THE OTHER PIECE OF THIS IS A POLICY QUESTION.

I HOPE WE GET TO THAT.

BECAUSE THERE ARE SITUATIONS WHERE PEOPLE ARE NOT IN A POSITION TO GO AHEAD AND SAVE THAT KIND OF MONEY THROUGHOUT THEIR CAREERS.

>> Haynes: AS YOU SAID WE'LL GET TO THAT BUT I WANT TO JUMP IN AND ASK ALANA A QUESTION.

I READ YOUR ARTICLE WITH THESE BORROWERS, ESPECIALLY ONE WOMAN THAT HAD HER LOANS FOREGIVEN, THAT WAS EMOTIONAL, LIFE CHANGING WHEN SHE WAS TALKING TALKING ABOUT THIS.

WHETHER IT'S GOING TO AFFECT INFLATION, WHEN EVERYONE SHOULD BE FOREGIVEN, THIS IS LIFE CHANGING FOR SO MANY PEOPLE TO HAVE THIS DEBT LOAD FOREGIVEN.

>> ONE THING I WOULD ADD IS ABOUT FAIRNESS.

IF YOU THINK ABOUT FAIRNESS.

I SPOKE TO A WOMAN WHO RECENTLY BORROWED $22,000, SHE PAID BOWK 33,000 AND SHE STILL OWED $44,000.

LET'S GIVE PEOPLE BACK THE MONEY THEY BORROWED FOR TUITION, WAIVE THE TUITION AND FEES, ASK THEM TO TAKE BACK THE MONEY THEY PAID FOR TUITION, THAT WOULD BE ONE THING BUT PEOPLE RACKING UP TENS OF THOUSANDS OF DOLLARS FOR TUITION AND LAWSUITS THAT HAVE BEEN FOLLOWED AGAINST IF SERVICERS ARE WHO TOOK ON THESE LOANS, A LOT OF WAYS THE LOANS WERE ADMINISTERED AND THE PROGRAMS WERE ADMINISTERED WERE NOT FAIR.

YOU SAW LAWSUITS THAT TRIED TO WIPE OUT SOME OF THESE LOANS BUT THEY JUST REALLY HAVEN'T WORKED.

SO I THINK BACK TO THE LAST FINANCIAL CRISIS WHERE YOU HAD ALL THESE BANKS PEDDLING RISK 80 PRODUCTS, WHAT DID WE DO?

WE BAILED OUT THE BANKS.

YOU HAVE SERVICE PROVIDERS WHO ARE PEDDLING RISKY OR KIND OF UNFAIR LOAN PRODUCTS, AND YOU SHOULD SAY THE BORROWER SHOULD BE ON THE HOOK?

I DON'T THINK THAT'S QUITE FAIR.

>> Haynes: YES, THERE WAS A POLL THAT CAME OUT THAT SHOWED 19% JUST 19% OF FOLKS THAT BELIEVED THAT THE TOTAL DEBT THAT FOLKS OWE SHOULD BE FORGIVEN.

THAT'S ASTOUNDING TO ME.

THERE IT IS RIGHT NOW, THE MORNING CONSULT AND PLUL POLL RIGHT THERE -- AND POLITICAL POLL RIGHT THERE.

THAT IS INCREDIBLE TO MEAN YOU YOU WOULD THINK THAT PEOPLE COULD WANT TO THIS HAVE THIS BURDEN SHIFTED, ONLY 13% WANTED FOREGIVENESS FOR LOWER INCOME BUY IS.

MICHAEL, DOES THIS PLAY INTO WHAT YOU ARE SAYING ABOUT THE CULTURE OF DEBT FORGIVENESS?

>> SOME PEOPLE WHO HAVE DON'T THESE LOANS, SOME OF THE PROGRAMS THE WAY THEY'RE PUT TOGETHER, ARE PUTTING PEOPLE IN A SITUATION WHERE THEY'RE NOT GOING TO GET OUT OF THIS MID CAREER.

I KNOW PEOPLE WHO HAVE GOTTEN THEIR PH.D.S, AND IT TOOK THEM INTO THEIR 50s TO GET OUT OF THEM.

IT WASN'T BECAUSE THEY WERE LOANED THAT MUCH MONEY, IT WAS BECAUSE OF THE LOAN INTEREST.

THE WAY THEY ARE STRUCTURED IS VERY IMPORTANT TO UNDERSTAND.

BUT IT ALSO SORT OF SPEAKS TO THE IDEA HERE THAT THERE ARE LEVELS OF FORGIVENESS THAT PEOPLE ARE WILLING TO ACCEPT.

SO FOR EXAMPLE, JOE BIDEN'S CAMPAIGN PROMISES FOR $DEN,000, THERE'S ALSO BEEN SOME REPORTING THAT THERE ARE SEVERAL GROUPS THAT ARE TRYING TO PUSH FOR $50,000 AND EVEN MORE.

WHEN YOU LOOK AT ALL OF THOSE KIND OF MOVING PIECES OF THIS, PEOPLE ARE TRYING TO GET THEIR HEADS AROUND IT.

AND WHAT THAT POM SHOWS YOU AS SOMEONE WHO HAS BEEN A POLLSTER FOR 25 YEARS IS THAT THERE'S NO CONSENSUS OTHER THAN NOT ALL OF THAT SHOULD BE FORGIVEN.

BUT THERE'S CLEARLY SOME PEOPLE WHO HAVE BEEN PUT IN CERTAIN SITUATIONS THAT SHOULD GET MORE DEBT FORGIVENESS THAN OTHERS AND THAT IT SHOULD BE MUCH MORE TARGETED AS OPPOSED TO NOT.

WOULD I SAY THERE IS ONE PIECE OF THAT POLL THAT IS FAIRLY INTERESTING TO ME.

WHICH IS LIKE FOR LOWER INCOME PEOPLE, WELL TO BE FAIR, THERE ARE PEOPLE WHO ARE SAVING AT THE BEGINNING OF THEIR CAREERS FOR KIDS, BECAUSE THEY ARE HAVING KIDS YOUNG OR EVEN JUST AT THE BEGINNING OF THEIR CAREERS AND THEY MAY NOT HAVE MADE A LOT OF MONEY AT THAT POINT BUT NOW THEY MAKE A LOT OF MONEY.

SO WOULD YOU THEN CHARGE, PUT PEOPLE IN THAT KIND OF BRACKET AS OPPOSED TO THE BRACKET WHERE THEY WERE ACTUALLY SAVING FOR COLLEGE?

SO THERE'S SO MUCH GOING ON IN THIS.

IT'S VERY HARD FOR MOST PEOPLE TO GET THEIR HEADS AROUND IT, OTHER THAN NOT EVERYONE SHOULD GET IT AND IF WE'RE GOING TO NEED TO DO IT, WE SHOULD DO IT FOR PEOPLE WHO REALLY NEED IT AND ARE SQUARED BY THE SYSTEM.

>> Haynes: IN YOUR REPORT BEING YOU'RE TALKING TO BORROWERS BUT AS YOU HOLD OTHER INSTITUTIONS ACCOUNTABLE AS PART OF YOUR REPORTING.

>> ONE THING THAT'S INTERESTING TO ME, SPEAKING OF THAT POM, IF YOU THINK ABOUT WHY THERE WOULD HELP BORROWERS, I'M TALKING TO PEOPLE WHO THINK THEY CAN NEVER BUY A HOME OR CAN NEVER HAVE A KID OR HAVE ONLY ONE KID BECAUSE THEY ARE NEVER GOING TO REPAY THEIR LOANS UNTIL THEY'RE 60 OR 70.

THERE IS A MACROECONOMIC ISSUE HERE, YES, IF THESE PEOPLE HAVE MORE MONEY AND THEIR LOANS ARE FORGIVEN, THEIR LOANS WOULD GO UP, BUT YOU MIGHT SEE HIGHER BIRTH RATE AND MORE HOUSEHOLD FORMATION.

IT IS ALMOST HARD FOR ME TO UNDERSTATE THE NUMBER OF PEOPLE THAT I'VE TALKED TO THAT ARE COMPLETELY CRIPPLED BY STUDENT LOANLTS.

THEY ARE WORKING TO PAY OFF THEIR STUDENT LOANS AND THAT'S IT AND IT DOESN'T SEEM LIKE A GOOD PLACE FOR THE ECONOMY TO BE IN.

WITH THESE PEOPLE FEELING HOPELESS AND THEY CAN'T START A FAMILY OR DO ANYTHING ELSE BESIDES PAY OFF THEIR LOANS.

>> Haynes: TO FOLLOW UP, WE KNOW THAT IN 2020-2021 BIDEN SAID HE WANTED TO FOCUS ON PREEXISTING PROGRAMS TO START TO CHIP AWAY AT THIS LOAN DEBT FOR FOLKS.

I MEAN IT DOESN'T SEEM LIKE GIVEN WHAT WE'RE HEARING FROM BORROWERS THAT THAT'S GOING TO BE ENOUGH.

WOULD YOU SAY THAT THAT'S ENOUGH?

>> NO.

AND I THINK YOU HAVE A BIG PROBLEM HERE WHICH IS THAT THIS IS SO POLITICAL, THAT YOU HAD PROGRAMS THAT, DURING THE TRUMP ADMINISTRATION PEOPLE WERE SUPPOSED TO BE FORGIVEN OR THEIR DEBTS WERE FORGIVEN BUT IT'S JUST NOT GOING TO WORK.

I'M NOT SAYING THAT I HAVE A SOLUTION.

I DON'T KNOW IF THE MONEY AMOUNT IS THE SOLUTION.

BUT, YOU KNOW, THIS HAS BEEN A PROBLEM FOR SUCH A LONG TIME AND IT'S JUST GROWING AND GROWING AND IT'S SO POLITICAL THAT IT'S -- WE'RE REALLY NOT HELPING ANYONE OUT SO FAR I DON'T THINK.

>> Haynes: YEAH, MICHAEL SAME QUESTION, YOU KNOW, DOES LEANING ON THESE PREEXISTING PROGRAMS WORK OR WILL IT WORK AS PART OF THE SOLUTION HERE?

>> NO, AND IN FACT I'M REALLY HAPPY THAT WE GOT TO THIS PART OF THE CONVERSATION.

BECAUSE WE'RE NOT ACTUALLY TALKING ABOUT THE POLICY ISSUES HERE.

THE BIGGEST PROBLEM IS REALLY NOT THE DEBT SIDE.

IT'S REALLY WHAT IT COSTS TO GO TO COLLEGE.

IT SHOULDN'T COST WHAT IT COST FOTS GO TO COLLEGE AND INFLATION ON THE COST OF TUITION IS GOING -- HAS WELL OUTPACED BASIC INFLATION OVER THE PAST TWO DECADES.

AND SO TO UNDERSTAND, IF YOU ARE GOING TO MAKE ANY CHANGES IN THOUSAND DEBT PROGRAMS WORK, MEANS ALSO VERY CLEARLY SET SOME LIMITS AND SET SOME TARGETS ON THESE UNIVERSITIES WHO ARE CHARGING SO MUCH MONEY AND KEEP RAISING THEIR PRICES.

BECAUSE IF WE SOLVE THE PROBLEM NOW LET'S SAY WE JUST FOR WHATEVER REASON WIPED AWAY ALL THE DEBT, COLLEGE DEBT, WHAT ABOUT THE NEXT GENERATION THAT COMES UP?

WHAT DO YOU DO FOR THEM?

OKAY.

YOU'RE SAYING OKAY, IF YOU ARE LUCKY ENOUGH TO BE BORN WITHIN THIS GROUP OF TIME YOU'RE GOING TO BE FORGIVEN, YOU HAVE NOT SOLVED THE PROBLEM OF HIGHER ED COSTS.

YOU'RE SAYING YOU'RE LUCKY YOU GOT IT SOLVED HERE.

WHAT WE NEED TO DO IS FIGURE OUT HOW TO CONTAIN THOSE KINDS OF COSTS AND WHEN WE NEED TO DO THAT, WE NEED TO PUT MUCH BICKER FOOTPRINT HOW THESE UNIVERSITIES ARE RAISING THEIR PRICE EVERY YEAR AND ALSO FIND WAYS TO BUILT INTO THE SYSTEM, WAYS FOR PEOPLE TO GET FREE COLLEGE TUITION IF YOU ARE AT A LOWER SOCIOECONOMIC LEVEL, IF YOU HAVE OTHER ISSUES IN YOUR LIFE AND YOU WANT TO GO TO COLLEGE YOU SHOULD BE ABLE TO HAVE PROGRAMS THAT HELP YOU GET THERE WITHOUT A TON OF DEBT.

AND IF YOU HAVE TOY OUGHT DEBT THAT THIS -- THESE PROGRAMS DON'T ESSENTIALLY ASSIGN YOU TO BEING GERIATRIC BY THE TIME YOU GET YOUR DEBT GONE.

>> Haynes: YEAH, I WOULD ALSO SAY THAT WE SHOULD ALSO LOOK AT THE WAY THAT THESE LOAN SERVICERS OPERATE AS WELL AS PART OF THAT EQUATION.

BUT IN THE LAST COUPLE OF MINUTES THAT WE HAVE, I DO WARRANT TO ASK ABOUT THIS.

BECAUSE WE KNOW THAT THERE'S A DISPARATE IMPACT IN TERMS OF FOLKS OF COLOR WHO BORROW.

WE KNOW THAT THERE WAS A BRANDEIS REPORT IN 2019 THAT SHOWED THAT 20 YEARS AFTER GRADUATING, WHITE BORROWERS REDUCED THEIR DEBT BY 94%, WHILE BLACK BORROWERS ACTUALLY RESTAINED OR HELD THAT DEBT BY 95%.

AND SO, THERE'S THIS DISPARATE IMPACT.

AND SO DOES THAT COLOR THE WAY, PARDON THE PUN, DOES THAT COLOR THE WAY WE NEED TO APPROACH THIS LOAN FORGIVENESS SOLUTION DIFFERENT AND ALANA I ASK YOU -- >> I'M SORRY, GO AHEAD.

>> I WAS GOING TO SAY, I THINK THAT REALLY HIGHLIGHTS THE NEED TO DO SOMETHING ABOUT THIS.

I MEAN I THINK SINCE 2020, WE'VE REALLY HAD A CONVERSATION ABOUT RACIAL EQUITY IN THIS COUNTRY.

AND THIS IS SUCH A HUGE WAY THAT DISPARITIES ARE CREATED.

YOU KNOW, WITH PEOPLE RACKING UP MORE AND MORE MONEY AS THEY GET INTO THESE PROGRAMS, AND NOTHING REALLY HAPPENING.

AND SO I THINK, YOU KNOW, IF ANYTHING, THE AWARENESS OF THE RACIAL DISPARITY SHOULD REALLY MAKE US REALIZE THAT THIS IS NOT A TIME TO TALK ABOUT NEW POLICIES OR SETTING SOME SORT OF GUIDELINES GOING FORWARD, BT TO REALLY FIGURE OUT WHAT CAN WE CAN DO NOW SO THAT THESE DISPARITIES DON'T KEEP INCREASING.

>> Haynes: MICHAEL, FINAL WORD ON THIS.

>> YES, I DISAGREE.

I THINK ACTUALLY IT IS NOW TIME TO THINK BIG.

IT IS A BIG PROBLEM AND IT IS EVEN BIGGER FOR PEOPLE OF COLOR.

AND IN MOST CASES WHEN WE ADD FOR EXAMPLE THE HOUSING CRISIS AND AGAIN IT HIT THE FAMILIES OF COLOR WORSE, ANY KIND OF DEBT, ALWAYS SEEMS TO HIT THOSE GROUPS WORSE.

AND WE NEED TO FIGURE OUT NUMBER 1, ARE THERE CERTAIN LOAN PRACTICES THAT ARE PREDATORY, PARTICULARLY FOR THOSE GROUPS AND MAYBE START STRUCTURING CERTAIN EDUCATION PROGRAMS AROUND BEFORE YOU'RE ALLOWED TO TAKE OUT THAT KIND OF DEBT, WHAT YOU'RE REALLY GETTING YOURSELF INTO.

BECAUSE OTHERWISE YOU'RE JUST SIGNING OVER THAT PAPERWORK LIKE IT'S THE TERMS OF ENGAGEMENT WITH YOUR iPHONE HAD A YOU'VE DECIDED OKAY, I'M GOING TO PLAY WITH THIS APP.

YOU KNOW, WE NEED TO GET OUR HEADS AROUND OLOT MORE WHAT KIND OF A COMMITMENT YOU'RE MAKING AND WHAT KIND OF CHOICES YOU'RE MAKING.

ARE YOU CHOOSING TO GO TO A PRIVATE SCHOOL WHEN YOU CAN EASILY GO TO A PUBLIC SCHOOL?

ARE YOU CHOOSING TO, YOU KNOW COLLEGE WHEN ACTUALLY MAYBE A DIFFERENT PROGRAM IS BETTER FOR YOU?

SO ALL THESE THINGS NEED TO BE PUT INTO THE MIX OF MAKING THAT LIFE-LONG DECISION TO TAKE ON CERTAIN DEBT.

EITHER IT'S FOR YOUR HOUSE OR FOR COLLEGE OR FOR ANYTHING.

AND I THINK THAT WE NEED TO START THINKING BIG ABOUT HIGHER ED.

BECAUSE OTHERWISE WE'RE JUST GOING TO BE SOLVING THIS PROBLEM AGAIN TEN YEARS FROM NOW.

>> COULD I ADD REAL QUICKLY THAT PRIVATE LOANS JUST FOCUSING ON FEDERAL IF WE MAKE IT HARDER FOR PEOPLE TO GET FEDERAL LOANS A LOT WILL GO TO PRIVATE LOANS WHICH WILL GO TO STUDENTS OF COLOR AND PREDATORY.

I THINK THIS WHOLE SYSTEM WHERE THE SERVICES ARE PILING ON INTEREST AND LOANS WHETHER IT BE PRIVATE OR PUBLIC REALLY NEEDS A RETHINKING RIGHT NOW.

>> Haynes: OKAY, WE'RE GOING TO LEAVE THE CONVERSATION THERE.

THANK YOU SO MUCH, MICHAEL COHEN, THE CEO OF COHEN RESEARCH GROUP AND ALANA SEMUELS, THANK YOU SO MUCH.

>> THANKS FOR HAVING ME.

>> Haynes: WELL, IT'S NO SECRET.

BOSTON HAS LONG HAD A TOUGH REPUTATION WHEN IT COMES TO ISSUES OF RACE, BUT THERE ARE EFFORTS TO CHANGE THAT.

AMONG THEM: THE GROUP BOSTON WHILE BLACK, WHICH WAS CREATED TO BRING TOGETHER BLACK PEOPLE OF ALL BACKGROUNDS TO NETWORK AND FIND COMMUNITY WITH EACH OTHER.

A FEW DAYS AGO, THEY HELD THEIR FIRST INAUGURAL "HOW TO BOSTON WHILE BLACK SUMMIT"..

I'M JOINED NOW BY AYANNA POLK, SHE IS THE DIRECTOR OF COMMUNITY ENGAGEMENT AND COMMUNITY ARE COMMUNICATIONS FOR MAYOR MICHELLE WU, AND DANIEL JOHNSON, THE FOUNDER OF SPARK-FM, THE FIRST BLACK FEMALE-OWNED DIGITAL RADIO STATION IN BOSTON.

WRORCHG LADIES.

>> THANKS FOR HAVING US.

>> Haynes: ABSOLUTELY.

AYANNA, I WANT TO TALK TO YOU ABOUT THIS SUMMIT.

THIS IS A LOT OF WORK BY THIS FOUNDATION, YOU'RE ONE OF THE FOUNDERS HERE.

WHAT DOES IT MEAN TO TRANSITION FROM VIRTUAL TO IN PERSON AND TO HAVE A SUMMIT LIKE THIS IN THE CITY?

>> I THINK THIS IS A GREAT TESTAMENT TO WHAT COMMUNITY LOOKS LIKE.

I KNOW WITH MY TIME BEING IN BOSTON, THIS YEAR WILL BE THE FOURTH FOR ME, COMMUNITY IS VERY IMPORTANT WITH KIND OF MAKING MY EXPERIENCE THE MOST THAT I CAN -- THAT I CAN CORRESPOND TO.

AND I THINK THROUGH MY TIME OF CONNECTING WITH DIFFERENT FOLKS IN A NUMBER OF DIFFERENT INDUSTRIES, WHO ARE ALL LOOKING FOR THAT SAME SENSE OF COMMUNITY, I KNOW AT FIRST IT STARTED ONLINE WITH A LOT OF VICH EVENTS JUST SO MAKE SURE THAT WE COULD COMMUNE IN A SAFE MANNER BUT NOW THAT WE'RE ABLE TO COME TOGETHER AND HAVE THESE LARGE SUMMITS IT'S REALLY GREAT TO SEE THE POWER OF ALL THESE FOLKS COMING TOGETHER JUST TO SHARE IDEAS ON HOW WE CAN BUILD COMMUNITY AND CREATE SPACE FOR MORE PEOPLE AND REDEFINE THE STORY ABOUT WHAT IT IS TO BE BLACK IN BOSTON.

>> Haynes: DANIELLE, I KNOW YOU WENT TO THE CONFERENCE, YOU SAT ON A PANEL THERE.

WHAT WAS IT LIKE TO BE IN THE ROOM, IN THE BUILDING AS PART OF THIS HISTORIC EVENT FRANKLY FOR THE CITY?

>> IT WAS -- IT WAS AWESOME.

IT WAS HIGH ENERGY, IT WAS A VERY INTENTIONAL EVENT.

SITTING ON THE PANEL AND SEEING ALL OF THE BLACK PEOPLE THERE, JUST HAVING SUCH GREAT -- JUST HAVING HAD SUCH A GREAT TIME, THEY REALLY ENJOYED IT.

THERE WAS NO BORING PART TO IT.

AND I'M BORN AND RAISED IN BOSTON AND THIS IS THE FIRST SUMMIT THAT I'VE BEEN TO THAT I'VE LIKE LITERALLY ENJOYED SEMISELF FROM START TO FINISH.

I WAS ONLY ABILITY TO BE THERE ON THE LAST DAY BUT THE NETWORKING, THE CAMARADERIE, THE COMMUNITY, PEOPLE TOGETHER TO HAVE A GOOD TIME LEARN A LOT ABOUT THE CITY IN WHICH THEY EITHER TRANSPORTED FROM OR TRANSITIONED INTO, OR JUST BEEN HERE FOR ALL THEIR LIVES AND JUST WANTED TO SEE SOMETHING LIKE THIS, YOU KNOW, HAPPEN IN A VERY GREAT GRACE, GREAT ENVIRONMENT, AND WHAT'S REALLY, REALLY LIKE IN JOYOUS ENERGY.

>> Haynes: DANIELLE, WHAT DO YOU THINK IN AN ORGANIZATION LIKE THIS BOSTON WHILE BLACK, DOES TO BOLSTER BLACK ENTREPRENEURSHIP IN THE CITY?

>> IT GIVES A SENSE OF BELONGING.

LIKE NOW, WE KNOW THAT THERE'S ALL OF THESE BLACK PROFESSIONALS HERE, AND LIKE YOU KNOW, IT'S BEEN SAID BEFORE, BOSTON HAS A REALLY BAD WAY OF MARKETING THE BLACK ECONOMY AND BLACK COMMUNITY HERE.

AND BEING SOMEPLACE LIKE THAT, WHERE IT WAS A SPACE FOR PROFESSIONALS, STUDENTS, TRANSPLANTS, NATIVES, I THINK IT JUST KIND OF GAVE US MORE SENSE OF BELONGING.

AND KIND OF INVIGORATED US TO LIKE JUST CONTINUE TO PUSH FORWARD.

IT'S INCREMENTAL STEPS TO A BIGGER FIR THAT WE'VE BEEN WAITING FOR, FOR A LONG TIME AND I'M GLAD TO SEE SO MANY LEADERS TO TAKE THE INITIATIVE TO GET IT DONE.

>> Haynes: AYANNA, I KNOW IT WAS HARD WORK HELPING TO FOUND THE ORGANIZATION, PUTTING THIS TOGETHER, CONNECTING NETWORKS AND ALSO BUILDING TRUSTS IN COMMUNITIES OF COLOR AND IN THE BLACK COMMUNITY SPECIFICALLY THAT THIS ORGANIZATION WOULD BENEFIT FOR THEM.

HOW DID YOU BRIDGE THAT GAP IN ORDER TO GET COMMUNITIES TO TRUST THE WORK THAT YOU'RE DOING?

>> YES, SO WITH BOSTON WHILE BLACK I KNOW WHEN THEY OPENED UP THEIR MEMBERSHIP AND I BECAME ONE OF THE FOUNDING 100 MEMBERS, I WAS REALLY PASSIONATE ABOUT MAKING SURE THAT THROUGH THIS EXPERIENCE, IT WASN'T ONLY A PLACE FOR US TO MEET OR HAVE SOCIAL EVENTS.

BUT REALLY TRY TO FIND A WAY FOR US TO MAKE A LARGE IMPACT AS A LARGE GROUP.

SO I KNOW WITH MY TIME, OF MEETING DIFFERENT PEOPLE, IN DIFFERENT EVENTS, I MADE SURE THAT I WOULD TELL OTHER PEOPLE ABOUT THIS GREAT OPPORTUNITY FOR PEOPLE TO COMMENT TOGETHER.

THERE'S FOLKS THAT I'VE MET ON THE STREET, I FOUND OUT THAT I HAVE FAVORS THAT ARE IN THIS ORGANIZATION.

IT'S A GREAT WAY FOR US TO SAY WE'RE EXPANDING AND SEEING THE BREATH OF PEOPLE GETTING EXCITED AND COMING OUT TO DIFFERENT EVENTS LIKE LAST YEAR'S DAILY REUNION I KNOW IT'S COMING BACK THIS SUMMER.

I'M EXCITED TO SEE MORE AND MORE PEOPLE GET INVOLVED AND HAVE AN OPEN SPACE FOR THEM TO HAVE FUNNEL FOR THEIR ENTIRE FAMILY.

SEE THIS GROUP BOSTON WHILE BLACK IS AN OPPORTUNITY TO REALLY HAVE A BIG GATHERING LIKE DANIELLE SAID AND NOT ONLY SUPPORT BLACK BUSINESSES BUT FOR US TO COME TOGETHER AROUND BLACK ISSUES AND FIGURE OUT HOW WE CAN MAKE OUR VOICE, COME TOGETHER AND, YOU KNOW, MAKE OUR POINTS HEARD ABOUT WHAT THE BOSTON THAT WE WANT TO SEE.

>> Haynes: ABSOLUTELY.

AND, YOU KNOW, WHEN WE'RE TALKING ABOUT THE BOSTON THAT WE WANT TO SEE, I WANT TO TALK ABOUT THIS SURVEY HERE.

THERE WAS A 2017 SURVEY BY CHADWICK MARTIN BAILEY ORGANIZATION THAT SAID THAT 46% OF THE RESPONDENTS HERE FOUND BOSTON WELCOMING.

ATLANTA NUMBER 1 ON THIS LIST, WE KNOW ATLANTA ALWAYS NEAR NUMBER 1 ON THIS TYPE OF LIST.

WHAT DO YOU THINK MOVES ON THIS CITY AND HOW DO WE GET BOSTON HIGHER UP ON THAT RANKING?

>> I THINK JUST WHAT WE SAW THIS PAST WEEKEND.

WE SAW A CUMULATION OF BLACK PEOPLE GATHERING AND TELLING THEIR FRIENDS AND DOING THEIR PART LIKE AYANNA SAID, DOING YOUR PART TO SPREAD THE WORD.

LETTING PEOPLE KNOW THAT THIS IS HERE, THIS IS WHERE YOU CAN GO, THIS IS WHERE YOU CAN EAT, THIS IS WHERE YOU CAN SOCIALIZE, THIS IS HOW YOU CAN GET CIVICALLY ENGAGED LIKE ALL OF THESE THINGS COMING TOGETHER TO HELP PUSH THE MESSAGE AND TO HELP DO OUR OWN MARKETING AND TO REALLY BE INTENTIONAL AGAIN ABOUT GETTING PEOPLE IN THE KNOW.

LARGE GATHERINGS.

NETWORKING EVENTS JUST GOING OUT SOCIALIZING, WHETHER IT -- WHATEVER PLATFORM YOU IDENTIFY WITH THE MOST, WHETHER IT BE COMMUNITY ENGAGEMENT, MUSIC, WHATEVER IT IS.

THERE NEEDS TO BE MORE OF A PUSH TO SHARE THE INFORMATION, SHARE THEIR RESOURCES AND THEN YOU KNOW JUST BEING REALLY EXCITED ABOUT THESE PLACES AND THESE EVENTS THAT ARE HAPPENING AND SPREADING THE WORD.

THAT'S HOW WE'RE GOING TO CONTINUE TO GROW.

THAT'S HOW WE'RE GOING TO CONTINUE TO, YOU KNOW, LIKE BUST THROUGH THE DOORS AND, YOU KNOW, LIKE CONTINUE TO JUST GROW AS A COMMUNITY OF BLACK AND BROWN PEOPLE TOGETHER.

AROUND THE MORE WE DO THAT, THE BIGGER IT WILL GET.

WORD OF MOUTH IS STILL THE BEST WAY TO GET INFORMATION ACROSS.

>> Haynes: YES.

>> IF I COULD.

I DEFINITELY AGREE WITH DANIELLE.

I KNOW THAT THIS JUST REMINDED ME OF MY EXPERIENCE WHEN I FIRST MOVED TO BOSTON.

EVERYONE WAS QUITE NERVOUS FOR ME.

I'M SAYING I'M MOVING TO BOSTON.

THEY'RE LIKE IT'S COLD.

AND THEY'VE HEARD ALL THE THINGS ABOUT BOSTON, ARE YOU OKAY?

BUT I KNOW WITH ME FIRST COMING HERE I MOVED TO ROXBURY, RIGHT?

SO MY EXPERIENCE IN BOSTON HAS BEEN VERY BLACK SINCE THE BEGINNING.

SO I'VE CARRIED THAT WITH ME.

AND EVERY TIME THAT I SPEAK TO OTHERS I BRING UP THOSE HISTORICAL LANDMARKS SUCH AS MY CHILDHOOD HOME AND I BRING UP HOW RICH THE HISTORY IS HERE AND THAT THERE IS MORE OF AN OPPORTUNITY TO SHARE THAT WITH ESPECIALLY WITH THE NEW EMBRACE STATUTE THAT'S COMING AND I SHOW BOSTON SHOWING MORE EVER ITS BLACK HISTORY EVERY DAY.

THAT MAKES ME PLOWT AND I CAN SHARE THAT WITH MY FAMILIES AND THEY CAN COME VISIT AND SEE, THAT HELPS REDEFINE THE NARRATIVE HOW WE ARE MAKING MORE SPACE FOR THE PEOPLE.

>> Haynes: JUST IN THE LAST MINUTE, THE PITCH, THIS IS WHAT WE'RE WORKING ON AND BY THE TIME YOU GET HERE IT WILL BE DONE AND YOU CAN BE PART OF THIS.

>> YEAH, I MEAN THAT'S THE BIGGEST APPEAL TO IT.

LIKE YOU KNOW, LIKE THERE'S SO MANY THINGS, IT'S SO RICH IN HISTORY PERIOD BUT IT IS RICH IN HISTORY FOR BLACKS AS WELL.

LIKE WE'VE DONE A LOT OF WORK HERE.

I THINK HIGHLIGHTING IT YOU KNOW SITUATIONS LIKE THIS WHERE WE'RE ALLOWED TO SPEAK ABOUT WHAT IS GOING ON.

HOW FORTUNATE IT IS TO US, OPENS THE DOOR TO MANY MORE OPPORTUNITIES, AND I THINK THAT'S WHERE IT LIES, YOU KNOW, FINDING THE OPPORTUNITY, TAKING ADVANTAGE OF IT REALLY KIND OF -- TAKING ON A LEADERSHIP ROLE INSTEAD OF LETTING OTHER PEOPLE DO IT FOR YOU AND TELLING PEOPLE.

TELL EVERYBODY WHAT'S GOING ON.

ANYTHING NICE THAT YOU SEE, ANYTHING NICE THAT YOU DO, SHARE IT ON SOCIAL.

TELL A FRIEND TO TELL A FRIEND.

CALL SOMEBODY IN ANOTHER STATE AND INVITE THEM HERE TO COME SEE IT THEMSELVES.

YOU KNOW ALL OF THESE THINGS ESPECIALLY FOR TRANSPLANTS I THINK IT'S IMPORTANT YOU'RE MOVING IN HERE IT'S A NEW PLACE YOU REALLY WANT TO FIND YOUR TRIBE.

>> Haynes: ABSOLUTELY.

>> YOU REALLY WANT TO FIND YOUR COMMUNITY AND YOUR PEOPLE.

>> Haynes: WE'RE GOING TO LEAVE THE CONVERSATION THERE.

AYANNA POLK AND SPARK FM FOUNDER DANIELLE JOHNSON, THANK YOU LADIES SO MUCH.

ALL RIGHT EVERYBODY THAT'S IT FOR TONIGHT.

FOR NOW THANK YOU FOR WATCHING AND GOOD NIGHT.

♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ Captioned by Media Access Group at WGBH access.wgbh.org