>> Announcer: DONNYBROOK IS MADE POSSIBLE BY THE SUPPORT OF THE BETSY AND THOMAS PATTERSON FOUNDATION AND THE MEMBERS OF NINE PBS.

>> HEY, THANKS FOR JOINING US FOR ANOTHER EDITION OF DONNYBROOK.

GREAT TO HAVE YOU ABOARD.

WE HAVE A SPECIAL GUEST FOR NEXT UP, THE SECOND HALF OF THE PROGRAM ON THIS BEAUTIFUL MAY EVENING.

WE'RE GOING TO TALK TO DR. PETER RAVEN WHO 50 YEARS AGO CAME TO ST. LOUIS TO BECOME THE PRESIDENT OF THE MISSOURI BOTANICAL GARDEN.

HE JUST COMPLETED HIS MEMOIR AND HE'LL BE JOINING US AT ABOUT HALF PAST.

LET'S MEET THE PANELISTS AND DIVER INTO THE TOPICS.

WE HAVE SOME REAL DEUCE ZIS.

HERE'S OUR FIRST ONE, THE NEWS DIRECTOR OF THE BIG 550 KTRS AND THE COHOST THE JENNIFER AND WENDY SHOW, WENDY WIESE.

WE WELCOME BACK ST. LOUIS'S ONLY CUBS FAN.

THEY'RE IN TOWN THIS WEEKEND.

MR. BILL McCLELLAN WHO WAS GONE LAST WEEK.

WELCOME BACK, BILL.

AND, OF COURSE, HE'S WITH THE POST-DISPATCH.

RAY HARTMANN IS A CARDINALS FAN AND ALSO A BIG FAN OF RAWSTORY.COM, THE BIG 550 KTRS AND THE RIVERFRONT TIMES WHERE HE WORKS, AND FROM THE ST. LOUIS AMERICAN, MR. ALVIN REID.

WELL, FOR THE SECOND TIME IN A YEAR, CEO MICHAEL NEIDORFF OF CENTENE CORPORATION, WHICH RANKS NUMBER 42 ON THE FORTUNE 500, SAID HE HAS MISGIVINGS ABOUT THE LOCAL AREA.

LAST SUMMER HE TALKED ABOUT CRIME, SAID HE COULDN'T ATTRACT WORKERS TO OUR AREA BECAUSE OF FEAR OF CRIME AND NOW HE'S UPSET WITH THE GENERAL ASSEMBLY WHICH FINISHED ITS SESSION LAST FRIDAY WITHOUT FUNDING MEDICAID EXPANSION, EVEN THOUGH LAST AUGUST, MISSOURI VOTERS VOTED TO INCREASE MEDICAID FOR ABOUT 275,000 MEDICARE -- OR RATHER, POOR INDIVIDUALS IN MISSOURI.

OF COURSE, CENTENE IS A COMPANY ADMINISTERS MEDICAID PLANS FOR A LIG, SO NATURAL HE'S UPSET, BUT HE IS BUILDING A ONE BILLION DOLLAR COMPLEX IN NORTH CAROLINA.

YOU FEEL THIS IS IRRESPONSIBLE OF HIM TO SAY THAT HE MIGHT PULL UP STAKES.

WHY IS THAT?

>> FIRST OF ALL, HE'S RIGHT ABOUT MEDICAID EXPANSION.

HE'S GONE OF THE GREAT BUSINESS STORIES OF ALL TIME AND HE'S A GREAT PHILANTHROPIST, BUT HE'S NOT SO MUCH OF A CIVIC LEADER IF HE'S WILLING TO THREATEN TO LEAVE OVER THIS.

YOU MENTIONED NORTH CAROLINA.

THERE'S ONLY 12 STATES IN THE COUNTRY THAT HAVEN'T AGREED TO EXPAND MEDICAID AND ONE OF THEM IS NORTH CAROLINA.

SO IF IT WAS SUCH AN IMPORTANT LITMUS TEST FOR HIM, YOU KNOW, HE IS MOVING.

HE'S SETTING UP AN EAST COAST HEADQUARTERS AND HE HAS EVERY RIGHT TO DO, BUT I THINK IF HE -- YOU JUST GOT TO STOP THINKING THE GUY IS A CIVIC LEADER.

HE'S A GREAT BUSINESSMAN.

WE DON'T KNOW FOR SURE IF HE'S JUST TALKING OR WHETHER HE'S REALLY GOING TO DO SOMETHING.

SHOULD HE DO SOMETHING LIKE LEAVE ST. LOUIS, IT WOULD BE A HORRIBLE BLOW TO THIS ECONOMY AND I'M CURIOUS WHERE CLAYTON AND ST. LOUIS COUNTY GET ALL THEIR TAX GOODIES BACK.

MAYBE, I DON'T KNOW, THAT THEY GAVE HIM, ALL THE INCENTIVES HE'S GIVEN FOR HIS HEADQUARTERS IN CLAYTON.

>> WELL, I THINK HE'S GONE.

I'VE HAD FRIENDS WHO HAVE GONE THROUGH ROUGH DIVORCES, AND THIS SEEMS LIKE A DIVORCE.

I MEAN, HE'S NOW -- YOU KNOW, BEFORE HE WAS GOING TO LEAVE BECAUSE OF CRIME AND NOW HE'S UPSET ABOUT THIS.

JUST ANYTHING THAT THE OTHER PARTNER DOES, THE FIRST PARTNER IS UPSET WITH, AND HE'S GONE.

I MEAN, THAT'S -- IT'S A MENTAL THING.

I THINK WE JUST HAVE TO PLAN FOR OUR POST-CENTENE DAYS.

>> I DON'T.

I'M NOT ABSOLUTELY SURE HE'S GOING TO GO AND, I MEAN, WHAT WE'RE TALKING, HOWEVER LONG BEFORE THIS IS FINISHED, IF IT'S THREE YEARS, DOWN IN NORTH CAROLINA A LOT CAN CHANGE IN ST. LOUIS.

IN THE MEANTIME, WHY DON'T YOU FORCE THAT CHANGE?

LOOK, LET'S -- THE MEMBERS OF THE TOPNOTCH, PRIVATE COUNTRY CLUBS AND THEY DON'T HAVE ANY BLACK MEMBERS OR WOMEN MEMBERS OR BROWN MEMBERS, AND WHEN THEY COME TO THE WORLD AND SAY, LIKE, YES, WE RECOGNIZE THE PROBLEM, BUT WE'RE DISCUSSING IT WHERE WE'RE THINKING THAT, WHY DON'T YOU QUIT?

WHY DON'T YOU THREATEN TO QUIT?

HE'S THREATENING TO QUIT.

SO I CANNOT BE MAD AT HIM BECAUSE WE ALL WANT THESE CORPORATIONS TO STEP UP AND HELP THE PLACES THAT THEY'RE IN.

WELL, ONE WAY YOU CAN DO THAT IS BY BASICALLY ACTING A FOOL AND PUTTING A LITTLE PRESSURE ON PEOPLE.

I JUST CAN'T BE MAD AT HIM.

>> I DON'T AGREE, ALVIN, BECAUSE -- >> I DON'T THINK THAT'S ACTING A FOOL, ALVIN.

I KNOW WHAT YOU'RE SAYING -- >> YEAH, THAT WAS A GROSS GENERALIZATION.

>> NO, I TOTALLY, I TOTALLY GET IT, BUT I THINK THAT WHEN YOU TALK TO -- WHEN WE'RE TALKING ABOUT SOMEBODY WHO HAS BENEFITED FROM THIS REGION IN SO MANY WAYS, WHETHER HE WILL ADMIT TO IT OR NOT, YES, 6,000 TAXPAYERS, THIS THAT'S A GREAT BOON TO THIS REGION, BUT AFTER A DEADLY PANDEMIC, TO HAVE SOMEONE THAT WE LOOK TO AS A CIVIC LEADER AND CALLING OUR STATE AN EMBARRASSMENT, AT THIS PARTICULAR TIME, I JUST -- I THINK IT'S A VERY BAD -- IT'S AN UNFORTUNATE LOOK FOR MR. NEIDORFF WHO HAS DONE SO MUCH.

>> WENDY WIESE, DOESN'T ALVIN HAVE A POINT THAT WE ALWAYS ASK OUR CIVIC LEADERS TO BE HONEST AND GET AWAY FROM THE TALKING POINTS AND HERE'S A GUY WHO'S CANDID.

THE ONLY ISSUE I CAN FIGURE OUT IS NORTH CAROLINA HASN'T EXPANDED MEDICAID YET.

>> BUT THERE'S ANOTHER POINT YOU'RE LEAVING OUT.

IT'S ONE THING -- IT'S WHEN HE SPOKE OUT.

FEFS GOING TO SPEAK, AND PARTICULARLY PRIVATELY AND LET THE LEGISLATORS KNOW WHILE THIS WAS HAPPENING, IF YOU EVER WANT TO SEE ANOTHER DIME FROM CENTENE AND MAYBE GOTTEN TOGETHER WITH SOME OTHER BUSINESS LEADERS AND SAID YOU BOYS EVER WANT TO SEE ANOTHER PENNY FROM US, YOU BETTER GET YOUR ACT TOGETHER, THAT'S FINE.

HE WAITED UNTIL IT WAS TOO LATE.

THERE WAS A LAWSUIT FILED TODAY AND THERE'S GOING TO BE MORE.

THE POINT IS IT'S NOW TOO LATE AND IF MIKE PARSON WAS EVEN THINKING ABOUT CLANGING HIS MIND A SECOND TIME, HE TOOK AWAY THE ABILITY TO DO SO BY CALLING HIM OUT PUBLICLY.

SO MY POINT IS, ALVIN, YOU'RE RIGHT ABOUT HIM SPEAKING OUT, BUT IT'S TOO LATE.

IT WAS TIME TO SPEAK OUT MONTHS AGO IF HE WANTED TO.

>> HANG ON, HANG ON.

DOES NEIDORFF KNOW THAT WE HAVE A FREE ZOO?

OKAY.

LET'S MOVE ON TO YOU, WENDY WIESE.

I WANT TO ASK YOU ABOUT MARK McCLOSKEY WHO HAS THROWN HIS HAT IN THE RING FOR THE U.S. SENATE.

SO HE'S -- WHAT A RACE THERE IS GOING TO BE.

I HOPE I'M WORKING NEXT YEAR TO SEE THIS ONE.

HERE'S THE DEAL.

YOU GOT ERIC GREITENS, THE GOVERNOR AND WE ALL KNOW ABOUT HIM, ERIC SCHMITT, MARK McCLOSKEY DEFENDING HIS HOUSE AND HOME WITH A FIREARM A YEAR OR SO AGO.

OH MY GOODNESS.

WHAT DO YOU MAKE OF THIS ONE?

DOES HE HAVE A CHANCE, WENDY WIESE?

>> ACCORDING TO DR. KEN WARREN INTERVIEWED ON RAY'S PROGRAM THE OTHER NIGHT, YES, HE ACTUALLY DOES.

HE HAS AS MUCH OF A CHANCE -- IF DONALD TRUMP WAS ELECTED IN 2016, I BELIEVE THAT MARK McCLOSKEY IS THE SECOND AMENDMENT CANDIDATE, AND I THINKS THAT THERE'S GOING TO BE A LOT OF NATIONWIDE INTEREST IN THIS PARTICULAR RACE, SO WHO KNOWS.

MARK McCLOSKEY AND ERIC GREITENS ALMOST CANCEL EACH OTHER OUT IN TERMS OF THE FRINGE.

ERIC SCHMITT HAS TO BE SMILING RIGHT NOW.

>> I AGREE.

>> IT'S TOO EARLY TO SAY WHO'S GOING TO BE SMILING.

I THINK KEN -- I WOULDN'T HAVE THOUGHT BEFORE -- I HAD AN INITIAL REACTION THAT IT WAS KIND OF A JOKE.

I THOUGHT HE WAS GOING TO THROW HIS PINK POLO INTO THE RACE.

BUT, YOU KNOW, HE DID SIT ON HIS FIRST -- DID YOU SEE THAT?

HE WAS ON A FARM TO DO HIS ANNOUNCEMENT.

I THINK HIS FIRST TRACTOR RIDE.

BUT HE CANNOT -- YOU CAN'T UNDERESTIMATE THIS GUY'S NAME ID FROM THE REPUBLICAN CONVENTION AND ALL THE TRUMP STUFF, AND THE BIG THING ABOUT IT'S HARD FOR PEOPLE LIKE US TO TALK ABOUT IS YOU JUST DON'T KNOW WHO THE FIELD IS GOING TO BE.

THERE ARE NO FEWER THAN FOUR MEMBERS OF CONGRESS, ONE IS ANN WAGNER, ONE THE VICKY HARTSLER IN THE WESTERN PART OF THE STATE, JASON SMITH AND BILLY LONG, THE LAST TWO, JASON SMITH IN SOUTHEAST MISSOURI AND BILLY LONG IN SOUTHWEST, HAVE ALREADY HAD FUNDRAISERS AT MAR-A-LAGO AND YOU HAVE THE TWO ERICS, SO A LOT OF IT IS GOING TO BE MATH.

THEY REJECTED -- THE LEGISLATORS WERE THINKING ABOUT HAVING A RUNOFF THING THAT WOULD CHANGE IT, WHICH I THINK IS A BETTER WAY TO DO THINGS, BUT RIGHT NOW, SOMEBODY, IF IT'S A BIG ENOUGH FIELD -- NOW, ALL FOUR OF THOSE CONGRESS PEOPLE AREN'T GOING TO GET IN, BUT IF IT'S A THREE OR FOUR-WAY RACE, SOMEBODY MIGHT WIN IT BY 28%.

>> I THINK HE'S THE ONE CANDIDATE WITH ENOUGH BAGGAGE THAT WE GOING TO FIND OUT ABOUT, MAYBE WITH THE EXCEPTION OF GREITENS BECAUSE THAT'S SOME REALLY REALLY STUFF, BUT REMEMBER WHEN THIS ALL FIRST STARTED AND IT CAME OUT WHO HE HAD SUED, CHILDREN'S HOSPITAL AND OTHER VERY NICE THINGS, I GUARANTEE YOU -- >> HIS FATHER'S ESTATE.

>> YEAH, I GUARANTEE YOU HE'S REPRESENTED SOME PEOPLE THAT DO NOT STAND FOR THE SECOND AMENDMENT AND DO NOT WANT AMERICA FIRST.

I BET YOU, YOU KNOW, IN ALL THOSE CASES ARE GOING TO COME TO THE FOREFRONT LIKE, HEY, HE WAS REPRESENTING ANYBODY WHO WOULD PAY HIM AND I THINK THAT'S WHAT HE WILL HAVE TO OVERCOME.

NOT TO MENTION THE FACT, AS I SAID ABOUT THE PRESIDENT AFTER HE WAS PRESIDENT, BUT HE'S A BUFFOON AND, YOU KNOW, LIKE I JUST DON'T SEE HIM CARRYING NOTHING IN MISSOURI BECAUSE HE'LL BE HIS OWN BIGGEST ENEMY.

>> WELL, YOU KNOW, IT'S HARD TO PUT RATIONALITY INTO A RACE WHERE ERIC GREITENS, ERIC SCHMITT, AND MARK McCLOSKEY ARE THE LEADERS, BUT YOU REALLY CAN'T BLAME McCLOSKEY FOR THE CLIENTS HE REPRESENTS.

THAT'S WHAT A LAWYER DOES.

I MEAN, I DON'T THINK McCLOSKEY HAS MUCH OF A CHANCE AND I THINK HE HAS SO MUCH BAGGAGE AND, YOU KNOW -- >> BILL, BILL -- >> HE TALKS TO ERIC SCHMITT A LOT STWLEE COULDN'T HAVE MORE BAGGAGE THAN DONALD TRUMP HAD IN 2016.

I JUST DON'T THINK WE CAN UNDERESTIMATE ANYBODY ANYMORE.

>> I UNDERSTAND THAT.

I AGREE WITH YOU TO A POINT, BUT THIS IS -- THAT'S NATIONWIDE.

IN THE STATE OF MISSOURI WHEN YOU FIND OUT HE REPRESENTED SOMEBODY THAT SUED SOME -- YOU KNOW, AND WON AND THEN YOU FIND OUT THAT THIS -- >> ALVIN, ALVIN -- >> CASE IN POINT, THIS BLACK PERSON WON SOME LAWSUIT AGAINST SOME, YOU KNOW, OLDER, AFFLUENT, WHITE WOMAN SOMEWHERE BECAUSE SHE DID SOMETHING OR WHATEVER, ALL THAT STUFF AIN'T GONNA PLAY DOWN IN SOUTHWEST MISSOURI.

>> ALVIN, WHY DO YOU THINK SUING THE CHILDREN'S HOSPITAL WOULD BOTHER REPUBLICANS?

>> I WOULD SAY THIS.

TODAY, PEOPLE CONSUME THE NEWS THAT REFLECTS THEIR OWN OPINION, SO ALVIN, YOU MAY HAVE STORIES THAT REFLECT POORLY ON MARK McCLOSKEY BUT HIS FOLLOWERS WON'T READ IT BECAUSE THEY'RE GOING TO NEWS SOURCES THAT DON'T CARRY THAT.

THAT'S WHAT'S GOING ON.

>> AND THEY DON'T CARE.

>> I'M TALKING ABOUT IF I'M ERIC SCHMITT, ANN WAGNER HOPEFULLY, YOU KNOW, ANY OF THOSE, EVERY COMMERCIAL I'VE RUN IS, NO MATTER WHAT YOU THINK ABOUT ERIC GREITENS, FIRST OF ALL, LET'S ELIMINATE McCLOSKEY.

THIS IS LIKE THE RACE OF ST. LOUIS WHERE CARA SPENCER ATTACKED LEWIS REED LIKE, HEY, THIS IS BETWEEN US FIRST AND THEM LATER.

IT'S ALL COMING OUT, CHARLIE.

>> ALVIN, CHARLIE HAS A GREAT POINT.

WHAT'S HIS NAME, McCLOSKEY CAME OUT OF THE BLOCKS WITH AN APPEARANCE ON WHITE NATIONALIST TV WITH TUCKER CARLSON AND HE GOT THE FUR RODE BROW.

THAT'S WHERE THESE PEOPLE LIVE, WHERE THEY GET THEIR INFORMATION, AND IF HE CAN COMMAND THAT, IT'S SHOCKING, BUT -- >> RAY, YOU'RE RIGHT, BUT ALVIN IS RIGHT TOO.

THERE ARE TELEVISION COMMERCIALS WHEN PEOPLE ARE WATCHING TELEVISION WITH COMMERCIALS.

I HOPE NOT, I HOPE THEY'RE ON PBS, BUT PEOPLE ARE FOLLOWING WEBSITES THAT WE DON'T EVEN KNOW ABOUT AND THEY HAVE STORIES THAT WE NEVER EVEN HEAR ABOUT AND VICE VERSA.

>> NO, I AGREE, I AGREE.

>> HEY, BUT HOW ABOUT YOU, WENDY WIESE -- NO, I'M SORRY, BILL, WHEN IT COMES TO LIVELY CHARACTERS, ST. LOUIS ATTORNEY AL WATKINS WAS IN THE NEWS AGAIN.

WOW, HE'S HAD QUITE THE RECORD RECENTLY, BUT THIS TIME, HE WAS DESCRIBING THOSE WHO ATTACKED THE CAPITOL ON JANUARY 6th AS BLANKETY-BLANK SHORT-BUS PEOPLE.

I DIDN'T UNDERSTAND THE TERM SHORT-BUS, BUT IT REFERS TO ONE OF THOSE SMALL BUSES THAT GENERALLY TAKE DISABLED INDIVIDUALS TO SCHOOL.

I THOUGHT IT WAS BEYOND THE PALE.

HE SEEMS TO BE GETTING AWAY WITH IT, BUT IS THERE A METHOD TO THE MAN'S MADNESS?

DOES HE KNOW WHAT HE'S DOING?

HE TOLD KMOX HOST CAROL DANIEL, BO MATTHEWS AND RYAN RECORD THIS WEEK, HE PURPOSELY SAID THINGS THAT WERE CRAZY SO HE COULD GET ATTENTION.

WHAT DO YOU THINK?

>> A, YES, I THINK AL WATKINS WANTS ATTENTION AND THIS IS THE WAY TO GET IT AND THE CRAZIER THE WORLD GETS, THE MORE OUTLANDISH THINGS YOU HAVE TO SAY, AND I FIND HIS COMMENTS OFFENSIVE, BUT I FIND A STRONG GRAIN OF TRUTH IN IT.

I THINK HIS GUY, THE GUY WHO WORE THE HEAD DRESS AND THE BUFFALO SKIN ROBES, IS NOT QUITE ALL THERE, AND I THINK THE PEOPLE WE'VE JUST BEEN TALKING ABOUT, MARK McCLOSKEY, I DON'T THINK HE'S ALL THERE.

HE CAME BY IT HONESTLY.

HIS DAD WAS ONE OF THE LEADERS IN THE FIGHT AGAINST FLUORIDATION AND WE CONSIDERED THAT KIND OF BIZARRE BACK IN THE '50s, BUT HERE IT IS ALL THESE YEARS LATER, AND SUDDENLY THERE GETS YOU ON TUCKER CARLSON.

I THINK THERE'S TRUTH TO WHAT AL WATSON IS SAYING, THESE PEOPLE AREN'T ALL THERE.

>> I AGREE WITH BILL.

I MEAN, I THINK IT'S CLEARLY -- IT WAS -- MOST DEFINITELY THERE'S A METHOD TO HIS MADNESS AND CERTAINLY THE COMMENTS ARE OFFENSIVE AND I THINK HE WOULD BE THE FIRST ONE TO TELL YOU THEY'RE OFFENSIVE.

THE PROBLEM IS WE'RE LIVING IN A MEDIA WORLD WHERE IF YOUR GOAL IS TO, I GUESS -- OBVIOUSLY IT AIN'T GOING TO HELP IN COURT, BUT I'M GUESSING IF YOUR GOAL IS TO PUT ENOUGH PRESSURE ON DOJ TO BE WILLING TO NEGOTIATE PLEA DEALS, THIS IS GOING TO BE REALLY INTERESTING.

THERE'S 450-PLUS OF THESE CASES, AND I HAPPEN TO COVER THIS AREA, SO I'VE READ WELL OVER 100 OF THEM MYSELF, AND THEY'RE AMAZING.

I MEAN, I DON'T WANT TO CHARACTERIZE -- I JUST WON'T CHARACTERIZE THE PEOPLE, BUT THERE ARE SOME UNUSUAL STORIES IN PRACTICALLY EVERY CASE.

>> OH, RIGHT, AND WE SAW -- >> AND THESE PEOPLE ARE NOT -- IT'S REALLY A VERY FRIGHTENING AND UNFORTUNATE THING AND I DON'T THINK PEOPLE REALIZE HOW BAD IT CAN BE.

>> DIDN'T WE SEE THAT ALMOST IMMEDIATELY, RAY, AFTER JANUARY 6th?

WE STARTED READING SOME OF THE STORIES ABOUT THE PEOPLE WHO WERE INVOLVED.

THE PROBLEM, THOUGH, WITH BEING A FLAME THROWER LIKE AL WATKINS IS YOU HAVE TO KEEP OUTDOING YOURSELF AND PEOPLE LOSE INTEREST PRETTY QUICKLY.

>> HERE'S THE THING THOUGH, WENDY.

I DON'T THINK SO.

THIS GUY'S RECORD, LOOK AT IT -- REMEMBER HE REPRESENTED JACK CLARK AND THEN HE REPRESENTED THAT KOREAN FAMILY WHOSE SON TRAGICALLY JUMPED FROM THE TOP OF THE DORCHESTER APARTMENT BUILDING TO HIS DEATH AND AL WATKINS SUED WASH-U, LOST THAT ONE.

HE REPRESENTED THOSE WOMEN WHO CLAIMED THEIR BABIES WERE SWITCHED AT ST. LOUIS HOSPITAL IN THE LATE 1950s.

THAT WAS DISPROVEN AND HE GOT THE $120,000 FROM SCOTT FAUGHN DURING THE GREITENS THING.

HE SEEMS LIKE A VERY UNSERIOUS GUY AND I DON'T UNDERSTAND HOW HE'S ABLE STILL TO OPERATE IN THIS TOWN WITH PEOPLE NOT LAUGHING OUT LOUD.

>> WELL, BECAUSE HE HAS -- >> THEY'RE LAUGHING, BUT -- >> YOU TALK ABOUT HIM BEING OUTRAGEOUS AND HIS CLIENTS BEING A LITTLE BIT NOT NORMAL, PEOPLE LIKE US PROBABLY WOULD SAY I DON'T WANT ALVIN REPRESENTING ME, BUT THOSE PEOPLE WHO SEE HIM ON TV AND WHERE BUFFALO HORNS WHEN THEY INVADE THE CAPITOL, THEY GO, I LIKE THAT GUY.

>> THAT'S EXACTLY RIGHT.

>> AND I'LL SAY THIS, CHARLIE, AND AS SOMEBODY WHO IS SERIOUS ABOUT THE DISABILITY RIGHTS MOVEMENT, I'M NOT GOING TO MINIMIZE THOSE COMMENTS, BUT I KNOW A LOT OF ATTORNEYS WHO THINK THAT AL WATKINS IS NOT IN ANY WAY INCOMPETENT, THAT HE'S ACTUALLY A GOOD ATTORNEY AND THAT HE DEFINITELY LOST A LOT OF HIGH PROFILE CASES.

I'M GUESSING HE WOULD ARGUE HE LOST A LOT OF CASES NOBODY ELSE WOULD TAKE AND THAT HE HAS WON A LOT, I THINK.

>> AND HE IS MARK McCLOSKEY'S ATTORNEY, OR ONE OF THEM ANYWAY.

>> JUST REAL QUICK, CHARLIE, I GUESS THIS WEEK AN ACTIVE MEMBER OF THE UNITED STATES MARINE CORPS WAS IDENTIFIED AND WAS INVOLVED IN ALL THAT, SO EVERYBODY DOWN THERE I WANT DELUSIONAL.

I THINK YOU COULD BE DELUSIONAL AND BE A MARINE, BUT I THINK YOU LOSE THAT CASE BECAUSE NOW WE'RE SAYING THAT EVERYBODY IN THE ARMY AND THE NAVY AND THE MARINES IS CRAZY.

>> I'M NOT SAYING EVERYBODY, BUT -- >> NO, LET ME FINISH.

I'M SAYING THAT THAT ARGUMENT, IF YOU COME IN AND SAY EVERYBODY WHO STORMED THE CAPITOL WAS DELUDED, THEN YOU CAN COUNTER WITH, NO, NOT EVERYBODY WAS OUT OF THEIR MIND.

SO THAT ARGUMENT BY AL WATKINS I THINK IS OUT.

>> WELL, ALVIN, LET ME ASK YOU ABOUT REPRESENTATIVE CORI BUSH.

AS YOU MAY KNOW, SHE'S BEEN IN FAVOR OF A BOYCOTT DIVESTMENT AND SANCTIONS ON ISRAEL, AND ISRAEL HAS BEEN IN THE NEWS RECENTLY RESPONDING TO ROCKET ATTACKS FROM GAZA BY SHELLING GAZA, AND SHE ALSO SUPPORTS AN ATTEMPT TO STOP SELLING ARMS TO ISRAEL.

FAIR POLICY POSITIONS FOR AN ELECTED LEADER, BUT THE JEWISH LIGHT EDITORIALIZED, THE ST. LOUIS JEWISH LIGHT THAT THEY SHOULD SHE SHOULD BE GIVING THEM AN INTERVIEW.

THEY'VE REACHED OUT AGAIN AND AGAIN.

RAEPS BUSH WILL NOT -- REPRESENTATIVE BUSH WILL NOT GRANT AN INTERVIEW WITH THE JEWISH LIGHT EDITORIAL BOARD.

DO YOU THINK SHE OWES THEM AN INTERVIEW?

>> YES, I DO.

I WOULD INTERVIEW WITH EVERYBODY REGARDLESS, BUT I'M IN JOURNALISM SO MAYBE I HAVE A DIFFERENT TAKE ON IT.

THE FIRST PEOPLE YOU INTERVIEW WITH ARE THOSE THAT PROBABLY OPPOSE THE STANCE YOU'RE TAKING.

NOW, WOULD I GO ON FOX NEWS?

NO, I WOULDN'T BECAUSE I JUST DON'T THINK THAT ACCOMPLISHES ANYTHING AND I THINK IT REALLY IS SLANTED.

BUT HEY, THERE MAY BE QUESTIONS YOU WANT ME TO ANSWER AND I WILL ANSWER THEM VIA EMAIL AND RUN MY ANSWERS VERBATIM.

I THINK THAT -- DOESN'T THAT SOLVE WHATEVER THE PROBLEM IS?

BUT YES, I WOULD INTERVIEW WITH THEM AND I THINK THE CHICAGO MAYOR ANNOUNCED SHE'S JUST GOING TO DO ONE-ON-ONE INTERVIEWS WITH THE BLACK PUBLICATIONS IN THE CHICAGO REGION.

IF YOU'RE GOING TO DO IT FOR THEM, YOU GOT TO DO IT FOR EVERYBODY.

SO I -- YOU KNOW, I HEAR HER, BUT AT THE SAME TIME, JUST DO THE INTERVIEW.

AND IF YOU DON'T TRUST WHAT'S GOING TO COME OUT IN THE PAPER, RECORD THE INTERVIEW OR DO IT VIA EMAIL.

BUT, YOU KNOW, THAT STANCE, I'M JUST NOT DOWN WITH.

>> YEAH, AND I'M SORRY, AND PRIME MINISTER NETANYAHU JUST AN HOUR AND A HALF AGO ANNOUNCED A CEASE-FIRE.

>> YEAH, I MEANT TO SAY.

>> BUT I MEAN, THIS IS THE PARTY THAT STRESSES DIVERSITY, RIGHT?

JUST FOR CLARIFICATION.

>> MM-HMM.

>> JUST FOR CLARIFICATION, OKAY.

THEN TO SAY, I'M ONLY GOING TO SPEAK WITH PEOPLE WHO REPRESENT THIS SEGMENT OF THE AMERICAN SOCIETY, I DON'T UNDERSTAND THAT.

LIKE YOU, ALVIN, I TOTALLY AGREE.

>> I MEAN, IT'S -- FIRST OF ALL, AS A JEWISH PERSON, YOU KNOW, A LOT OF PEOPLE I KNOW ARE VERY TORN UP RIGHT NOW BECAUSE THERE'S A BIG DEBATE GOING ON WITHIN THE DEMOCRATIC PARTY ABOUT POLICY TOWARD ISRAEL AND SHE REPRESENTS, IT'S NOT SO MUCH, YOU KNOW, ETHNIC AS MUCH AS IT IS, IN THIS CASE, SHE REPRESENTS YOUNG PROGRESSIVES AND MANY OF THEM HAVE A VERY DIFFERENT VIEW TOWARD ISRAEL THAN MAYBE I WOULD HAVE OR THE OTHERS HAVE HAD.

SO THAT'S JUST REALITY.

AS FAR AS THE DIVERSITY THING, I MEAN, SHE DOESN'T -- I THINK -- I LIKE WHAT ALVIN SAID, BUT, YOU KNOW, I KNOW JOSH HAWLEY ISN'T GOING TO GIVE ME AN INTERVIEW, OKAY?

HE DOESN'T OWE IT TO ME.

SO I'M GUESSING THAT THERE'S A LOT OF PEOPLE MORE AND MORE GIVING -- >> DIVERSITY ISN'T ONE OF HIS TENT POLES, RIGHT?

>> YEAH, AND HE'D SAY IT IS AND MY POINT IS THIS.

NO, HE WOULD.

MY POINT IS THIS.

WHAT THIS IS EMBLEMATIC OF IS POLITICIANS MORE AND MORE STAY WITHIN THEIR SILO.

IF YOU HAVE THE POSITIONS SHE HAS ON ISRAEL, YOU'RE PROBABLY NOT THINKING THE JEWISH LIGHT IS WITHIN YOUR SILO.

IT DOESN'T MEAN SHE HAS HOSTILITY TOWARD THEM.

>> RAY, IT'S WRONG.

A CONGRESS PERSON SHOULD BE WILLING TO SPACE A NEWS PUBLICATION AND DEFEND HIS OR HER VIEWS AND -- I MEAN ANN WAGNER SHOULD HAVE TOWN HALLS.

CORI BUSH SHOULD GO TO THE JEWISH LIGHT AND ANSWER QUESTIONS.

A WHITE CANDIDATE SHOULD GO TO THE AMERICAN AND ANSWER QUESTIONS AND TRYING TO EXPLAIN IT AWAY AS WITHIN THEIR SILO, IT'S WRONG.

>> IT'S WHAT THEY DO, BILL, ON BOTH SIDES.

>> OKAY, I DIDN'T ASK -- >> SHE INSERTED HERSELF INTO THE PALESTINIAN SETTLES ISSUE.

SHE SAID I THO WHAT IT'S LIKE TO BE MISTREATED AND ABUSED AND THAT KIND OF THING, SO I THINK THERE IS, LIKE BILL SAID, THERE IS AN EXPLANATION.

THERE'S NOTHING WRONG AT ALL WITH THE JEWISH LIGHT ASKING FOR AN EXPLANATION OF HER POLICY.

>> BUT DOES ANN WAGNER OWE THE AMERICAN AN INTERVIEW?

SHE AIN'T GOING TO GIVE IT TO THEM, SO MY POINT IS I'M NOT SAYING IT'S RIGHT.

IT'S JUST THE WORLD WE LIVE IN.

>> LET ME ASK YOU, RAY, HOW ABOUT ANN WAGNER?

IS SHE IN A PROTECTED SILO WHEN SHE VOTES AGAINST A BIPARTISAN COMMISSION TO INVESTIGATE THE JANUARY 6th UPRISING ON CAPITOL HILL?

>> SHE'S SUPPORTING INSURRECTION AND OPPOSING AMERICAN DEMOCRACY AND I THINK IT'S A BIG DEAL, BUT THAT'S WHAT SHE'S CAST HER LOT AND IT'S -- YOU KNOW, I THINK IT'S NOT A VERY -- PERSONALLY, I THINK IT'S AN UNPATRIOTIC VOTE TO DO THAT.

I THINK WE SHOULD ALL BE WANTING A NONPARTISAN, BIPARTISAN LOOK AT THE WORST INSURRECTION IN OUR LIFE TIMES.

AGAIN, I HAPPEN TO HAVE READ ENOUGH OF THESE THINGS TO TELL YOU THIS WAS A LOT WORSE THAN -- THE IDEA THAT THEY'RE TRYING TO DRAW SOME KIND OF EQUIVALENT TO CIVIL RIGHTS PROTESTS, TO BLM, COULD NOT BE FURTHER FROM THE TRUTH.

THIS CAME VERY CLOSE TO BEING A LOT MORE TRAGIC THAN PEOPLE REALIZE AND THIS IS A REALLY TERRIBLE TIME IN OUR COUNTRY.

>> I'M GLAD YOU'RE WILLING TO CRITICIZE ANN WAGNER FOR THIS.

I WISH YOU WOULD CRITICIZE CORI BUSH.

I ALSO CRITICIZE ANN WAGNER ON THIS AND I USED TO BE FRIENDS WITH HER, BUT THESE HAVE BECOME HER PEOPLE, YOU KNOW, THE PROUD BOYS AND THE DAVID DUKES OF THE WORLD, AND IT'S A TERRIBLE THING.

BUT SHE'S CHANGED UNDER TRUMP.

>> BUT I THINK THAT'S A MISTAKE, BUT IT'S NOT PER PEOPLE, BUT IT'S THAT 10% THAT'S GOING TO MAKE THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN HER ACTUALLY HOLDING HER SEAT AND NOT.

IT'S LIKE YOU'RE KOWTOWING JUST TO THEM WHEN YOU SHOULD BE TRYING TO BUILD UP WHAT YOU ALREADY HAVE.

IT ALSO MAKES ME THINK THAT SHE'S GOING TO RUN FOR SENATE BECAUSE YOU -- YOU DIDN'T HAVE TO TAKE THIS STAND.

LOOK, THE PEOPLE IN HER DISTRICT DON'T -- COME ON, BE SERIOUS.

THEY REALLY DON'T CARE ABOUT THAT.

>> HEY, LOOK, OKAY, I THINK THAT THERE SHOULD BE A COMMISSION.

I THINK IT SHOULD BE LIKE THE WACO COMMISSION WHERE ONE WHO'S TRUSTED LIKE JOHN DANFORTH HAS TO INVESTIGATE AS HE DID THE BRANCH DAVIDIAN COMPLEX IN WACO, TEXAS, FOR THE FBI.

I PREFER THAT THAN THESE BIPARTISAN THINGS BECAUSE I DON'T THINK ANYONE ACTS BIPARTISAN ANYMORE.

>> THAT'S RIGHT.

>> AND ACCORDING TO RYAN GOODMAN, A PROFESSOR OF LAW AT NEW YORK UNIVERSITY, HE TOLD THE WASHINGTON POST THE WAY THE COMMISSION WOULD BE STRUCTURED, THE LEADERSHIP, WHICH WOULD BE DEMOCRATIC, WOULD STILL HAVE AN EDGE OVER THE REPUBLICANS.

SO LOOK, I THINK THERE SHOULD BE A COMMISSION LOOKING INTO IT, BUT I REALLY AM NOT SURE IF YOU HAVE FIVE REPUBLICANS AND FIVE DEMOCRATS, IT'S REALLY GOING TO FIND THE HOLY GRAIL.

>> DONALD TRUMP WOULD NOT ACCEPT A COMMISSION ON THIS.

WE MOVED PAST THE DAYS WHEN JOHN DANFORTH COULD INVESTIGATE WACO.

THE FORMER REPUBLICANS ARE NOW ALL TRUMPISTAS.

THEY LOOK TO MAR-A-LAGO AND IF DONALD SAYS NO, THEN THEY SAY NO.

>> WE'RE STILL A NATION OF 330 MILLION, THERE HAS TO BE ONE JOHN DANFORTH OUT THERE.

>> I DON'T THINK THE ISSUE HERE -- FIRST OF ALL, BACK TO -- >> YOU THOUGHT IT WAS GOING TO BE JOSH HAWLEY, REMEMBER?

>> AND TO ME, WHEN WE GOT TO TRY TO DO IS LOOK AT THIS AS AMERICANS.

I KNOW IT'S IMPOSSIBLE RIGHT NOW FOR SOME REASON.

YOU LOOK AT ALL THE STATEMENTS THAT REPUBLICANS, INCLUDING McCARTHY AND McCONNELL AND OTHERS MADE AT THE TIME, CALLING OUT DONALD TRUMP RIGHT AFTERWARDS.

WE SHOULD BE ABLE TO LOOK AT THIS, THE FACTS OF WHAT HAPPENED AND WHY AND HOW IT HAPPENED WITHOUT IT BEING PARTISAN.

IT SHOULD NOT BE PARTISAN.

>> WELL, I AGREE, BUT THERE ARE TWO CONGRESSIONAL COMMITTEE LOOKING INTO IT.

THE CAPITOL IS SPENDING $10 MILLION TO LOOK INTO IT AND THERE ARE, AS YOU POINT OUT, 435 ARRESTS, SO THERE'S GOING TO BE LIKE 400 TRIALS.

>> NO, I DON'T THINK THERE WILL BE 400 TRIALS.

I THINK THERE COULD BE CRIMINAL CHARGES AGAINST TRUMP WHICH WOULD BE ANOTHER VEHICLE, AND THAT TO ME -- DON'T EXPECT 400-SOME TRIALS.

THAT'S NOT GOING TO HAPPEN, BUT I THINK THERE COULD BE A LOT OF THEM AND I GO BACK, I DON'T THINK THAT -- >> GOT TO GO.

UNFORTUNATELY, I HAVE TO CUT YOU OFF THERE, RAY, MY FRIEND, BECAUSE THE UNFORGIVING CLOCK SAYS WE'RE AT THE END OF THE FIRST HALF, BUT IN JUST A MOMENT ON NEXT UP, WE'RE GOING TO TALK TO THE DIRECTOR EMERITUS OF THE MISSOURI BOTANICAL GARDEN, PETER RAVEN.

DR. RAVEN HAS JUST WRITTEN HIS MEMOIR, CALLED "DRIVEN BY NATURE."

THAT'S NEXT.

>> Announcer: DONNYBROOK IS MADE POSSIBLE BY THE SUPPORT OF THE BETSY AND THOMAS PATTERSON FOUNDATION AND THE MEMBERS OF NINE PBS.

>> WELL, THANK YOU VERY MUCH FOR JOINING US FOR THE SECOND HALF OF OUR PROGRAM WHICH WE CALL NEXT UP WHERE WE TALK TO COMMUNITY LEADERS AND IN THIS CASE, I CAN'T THINK OF ANYONE WHO'S BEEN LEADING MORE FROM OUR AREA THAN DR. PETER RAVEN.

NOW THE PRESIDENT EMERITUS OF THE MISSOURI BOTANICAL GARDEN.

HE CAME HERE IN 1971.

SO HE'S CELEBRATING 50 YEARS IN THE GATEWAY CITY.

WHEN HE STARTED HERE, THE GARDEN HAD ABOUT TWO OR THREE SCIENTISTS AND SINCE THEN, TIME MAGAZINE HAS CALLED HIM A HERO OF THE PLANET.

DR. RAVEN, THANK YOU VERY MUCH FOR JOINING US ON NINE PBS.

>> WHAT A PLEASURE TO BE WITH YOU.

>> I DIDN'T KNOW THIS, BUT YOU'RE ACTUALLY A DESCENDANT OF CONVICTS FROM A PENAL COLONY IN AUSTRALIA, IS THAT CORRECT?

>> YES, YES.

THEY WERE SET OUT THERE FROM ARMAGH AND IRELAND.

IT WAS A TYPICALLY STORY.

THE MOTHER DIED, PEOPLE GOT MARRIED OUT THERE, THE MOTHER DIED, THE MAN REMARRIED.

THE TEENAGE GIRL COULDN'T STAND HER STEP MOTHER, SO SHE GOT ON A STEAM BOAT AND WENT BACK TO CALIFORNIA IN 1855 TO BE WITH RELATIVES.

A VERY TYPICAL STORY, BUT WITH A LOT OF CONTINENTAL REFERENCES.

>> I'LL BET, I GUESS.

ALVIN REID.

>> YOU KNOW, SUCCESS, 50 YEARS, IT'S JUST A FANTASTIC THING.

BUT AS YOU LOOK BACK, YOU KNOW, LIKE ON THE BOTANICAL GARDEN, LIKE THE DAY YOU WALKED IN THE FIRST TIME AND THERE'S THE CLIMATRON AND WHAT ST. LOUIS HAD DEVELOPED, FROM THERE TO WHERE WE ARE NOW, EXPONENTIAL GROWTH, LIKE SOMETHING I COULD HAVE FORESAW OR IS IT JUST SOMETHING MAGICAL THAT HAPPENED WITH YOUR GUIDANCE?

>> WELL, IT WAS JUST TRYING TO GET BACK ON ITS FEET, I THINK, WHEN I CAME, WOULD BE THE FAIR THING TO SAY.

IT HAD BEEN SORT OF STUTTERING AND STOPPING AND STARTING AFTER WORLD WAR II, LIKE SO MANY THINGS IN ST. LOUIS, SORT OF RUNNING OUT OF MONEY.

A LOT OF GARDEN'S INCOME IN THOSE DAYS CAME FROM DOWNTOWN REAL ESTATE WHICH WAS ALL FINE FOR REVENUE, BUT LOSING ALL ITS VALUE AND BEING SOLD AND THE WHOLE THING WAS NOT GOOD.

BUT IT STARTED ABOUT FIVE OR SIX YEARS BEFORE I GOT THERE WITH DIRECTOR DAVID GATES AND SCIENTIST WALTER LEWIS.

WHEN I GOT THERE, I HAD LITTLE EXPERIENCE, BUT I THOUGHT IT WOULD BE GOOD.

ONE OF THE IMPORTANT THINGS TO KNOW ABOUT A BOTANICAL GARDEN WHICH MAKES IT DIFFERENT AS TO WHO YOU'D RECRUIT IS THEY'VE ALWAYS BEEN SCIENTIFIC ORGANIZATIONS IN ADDITION TO SHOW AND IN FACT, THEY STARTED 500 YEARS AGO AS BRANCHES OF MEDICAL SCHOOLS.

IN OTHER WORDS, IS THAT WHAT I'M GOING TO USE MAKE ME BETTER OR POISON ME TO DEATH?

THEY HAD TO LEARN THAT THROUGH HAVING GARDENS TO LOOK AT THEM AND SO FORTH, OR IF THEY MADE A MISTAKES, WELL, THAT WAS TOO BAD, BUT ANYWAY, THE GARDEN WHICH WAS OPENED BY HENRY SHAW IN 1859 HAD BEEN CLOSELY ASSOCIATED WITH WASHINGTON UNIVERSITY SINCE 1884 WHEN SCHOOL OF BOTANY WAS STARTED THERE.

AND THEY'VE HAD 100 GRADUATES AND ONE OF THE THINGS WE'RE PROUD OF IS THE FIRST PhD GRADUATE FROM WASHINGTON UNIVERSITY WAS A WOMAN, GRADUATED IN THE LATE 1880s, SO WE'VE BEEN ON THE BALL, BUT THERE HAVE BEEN HUNDREDS OF GRADUATES AND NOW, OF COURSE, WE'RE CLOSE TO ST. LOUIS U, UMSL, AND UNIVERSITIES AROUND THE COUNTRY.

NOW, I HAD NO EXPERIENCE IN SUPERVISING PEOPLE OR REALLY IN RAISING MONEY, SO I JUST HAD TO KIND OF LEARN IT AS I WENT, BUT ST. LOUIS IS A VERY FRIENDLY COMMUNITY AND WHEN YOU COME TO A TRADITIONAL INSTITUTION THAT PEOPLE LIKE LIKE THE GARDEN, THEN ALL THE MORE SO.

SO IT WENT WELL.

I WAS VERY PLEASED BY THE FRIENDSHIP AND WE WERE ABLE TO BUILD.

MOST SIGNIFICANT, I THINK, WAS THAT WE WERE ABLE TO CREATE A BRANCH OF THE ZOO MUSEUM DISTRICT TEN YEARS AFTER I GOT HERE, WHICH HELPED OUR FINANCIAL WOES WHICH WERE LIKE THOSE OF ANYTHING ELSE LOCATED IN THE CITY.

>> RAY.

>> DR. RAVEN, I BELIEVE YOU HAVE HAD AN ACTIVE INTEREST IN THE SCIENCE OF CLIMATE CHANGE LONGER THAN MOST.

WHAT IS YOUR PROGNOSIS FOR OUR SPECIES' ABILITY TO, WHAT DO YOU THINK -- WHAT'S THE OUTLOOK FOR CLIMATE CHANGE?

>> YEAH, WE'VE GOT TO DO A LOT BETTER THAN WE CAN NOW.

THE CLIMATE NOW, THE HEAT IS ABOUT TWO DEGREES WARMER THAN IT WAS BEFORE WE STARTED HAVING BIG LEAGUE INDUSTRY ALL OVER THE WORLD.

BY THE END OF THIS CENTURY, BY THE END THEREFOFEREFORE -- END OF THIS DECADE, I WISH IT WERE THIS CENTURY, BY THE END OF THIS CENTURY, IT WILL BE NEARLY OVER 3 DEGREES AND IN THE NEXT FEW DECADES, MUCH HOTTER.

NOW, A LOT OF PEOPLE CALL WHERE IT WILL GET AT THE END OF THIS DECADE THE POINT OF NO RETURN.

IT'S CLEAR ALREADY THAT IN ABOUT 20 YEARS, WE WON'T BE ABLE TO GROW CORN AND SOYBEANS WELL IN MISSOURI, FOR EXAMPLE.

THE COMPARABLE CLIMATE WILL BE IN NORTHERN GEORGIA.

CALIFORNIA, WHICH IS SUCH AN IMPORTANT SOURCE OF AGRICULTURE FOR THE COUNTRY, IS GOING TO BE OUT OF LUCK WITH MOST OF ITS CROP, AND SO FAR, EVEN THOUGH MOST PEOPLE IN THE WORLD THINK CLIMATE CHANGE IS A BIG PROBLEM, WE HADN'T REALLY BEEN WILLING TO WORK ON IT HARD ENOUGH TO MAKE IT EVEN HAPPEN.

BUT IT'S A LOT BETTER THAN PRETENDING IT'S NOT HAPPENING BECAUSE IT SURE IS.

>> BILL.

>> DOCTOR, YOU'RE IN CLIMATE CHANGE AND YOU'RE ALSO CONCERNED AND INVOLVED WITH THE EXTINCTION OF SPECIES WHICH IS HAPPENING AT AN INCREASING RATE.

THESE ARE SUCH DIRE THINGS.

CAN YOU OFFER US ANY OPTIMISM, ANY NOTE OF GOOD CHEER?

>> WELL, EACH ONE OF US IS GOING TO DIE IN DUE COURSE.

BUT IT WILL DEPEND ON LOT ON WHAT EACH OF US CONTRIBUTES TO MAKING IT BETTER ALONG THE WAY.

YOU KNOW, WHEN I WAS STARTING MY CAREER, LIKE WHEN I WAS AT STANFORD, A PROFESSOR IN THE 1960s, WE THOUGHT OF EXTINCTION, BUT WE THOUGHT OF IT MORE AS LIONS AND TIGERS AND BEARS DISAPPEARING AND WE DIDN'T THINK OF IT AS A BIG TIME CHANGE IN THE WELFARE OF THE EARTH AS A WHOLE.

NOW WE KNOW, WE REALIZE, WE FOCUS ON THE FACT THAT WE'RE ALL PART OF WHAT WE CALL A GLOBAL ECOSYSTEM.

ALL THE PLANTS AND ANIMALS IN THE WORLD INTERACTING WITH ONE ANOTHER TO FORM A SYSTEM THAT KEEPS GENERATING ENERGY.

UNFORTUNATELY, THE POPULATION HAS MORE THAN DOUBLED DURING MY LIFETIME.

IN FACT, IT'S MORE THAN TRIPLED DURING MY LIFETIME IN THE '30s AND THERE ARE FAR MORE PEOPLE IN THE WORLD THAN PEOPLE HAVE THOUGHT -- THAN SCIENTISTS THINK THE WORLD CAN REALLY SUSTAIN OVER THE LONG RUN.

A REALLY INTERESTING WEBSITE IS GLOBALFOOTPRINTNETWORK.

IF YOU LOOK THAT UP, YOU'LL SEE, YOU JUST ADD UP UM STATISTICS, BASICALLY WE'RE USING UP ALL OF THE PRODUCTIVE CAPACITY OF THE WORLD BY MIDDLE OF EACH YEAR, BY WELL -- YES, BY EARLY JULY.

AND THAT MEANS THAT THE SPECIES THAT ARE MAKING THE SYSTEMS WORK, THAT CAPTURE ENERGY FROM THE SUN, KEEP THE ATMOSPHERE WHERE IT IS SO WE CAN BREATHE IT, ABSORB POLLUTION, SET UP THE TOP SOIL, MAKE AGRICULTURE POSSIBLE, ALL OF THOSE THINGS ARE BEING DESTROYED IN A WAY WE DON'T WANT THEM TO BE AS SPECIES, ARE DISAPPEARING, AS THE PARTS OF THEM ARE DISAPPEARING.

WE ORIGINATED AS PART OF THAT GLOBAL ECOSYSTEM, YOU KNOW, ABOUT 11,000 YEARS AGO WHEN WE INVENTED -- I MEAN, WE BECAME A SERIOUSLY DESTRUCTIVE PART OF BIT 11,000 YEARS AGO WHEN WE INVENTED AGRICULTURE, BUT THAT'S WHAT ENABLED US TO BUILD CITIES AND TOWNS AND PLACES AND HAVE SPECIALTIES AND TV SHOWS AND ALL THE OTHER WONDERFUL THINGS THAT MAKE UP OUR CIVILIZATION, AND AS THAT HAPPENED, THE NUMBER OF PEOPLE SIMPLY GOT GREATER AND GREATER.

AT THE BEGINNING OF THE RENAISSANCE 500 YEARS AGO, IT WAS ABOUT 500 MILLION PEOPLE AND IT DIDN'T GET TO A BILLION UNTIL ABOUT THE 1920s AND NOW IT'S NEAR EIGHT BILLION, GOING TO TEN BILLION AT THE END OF THE CENTURY.

KILLING OFF SPECIES, THE LINKS THAT MAKE THE WORLD A PLACE WHERE WE CAN FOR ON LIVING AT A VERY FAST AND UNFORTUNATE RATE.

BUT THE IMMEDIATE -- BUT THERE ARE A LOT OF IMMEDIATE THINGS WE CAN DO.

IF THE WORLD IS GONNA BE IN A REAL PICKLE AS THE DECADES GO BY, THERE'S NO WAY WE'RE GOING TO JUST SIT THERE AND SAY IT'S ALL GOING SWELL, LET'S MAKE AMERICA GREAT, LET'S KEEP GATHERING MORE THAN WE REALLY DESERVE, AND WHAT WE DO INDIVIDUALLY -- AND I CAN LAY OUT SOME OF THOSE THINGS IF YOU ARE INTERESTED -- IF YOU'D BE INTERESTED, BUT WHAT WE DO INDIVIDUALLY IS GOING TO MAKE A BIG DIFFERENCE BETWEEN HOW BAD IT IS.

SO IF WE THINK WE ARE ALL GOING TO -- WE'RE EACH GOING TO DO WHAT WE CAN TO MAKE THINGS BETTER, THEN WE HAVE REASON TO BE SOMEWHAT OPTIMISTIC.

IF WE THINK WE DON'T CARE AND EVERYTHING'S SWELL, THEN WE HAVE REASON TO BE PUT IN THE LOONY BIN BECAUSE THERE'S NO EVIDENCE FOR THAT AT ALL.

THERE'S NO WAY IT CAN HAPPEN.

THE QUESTION IS HOW MUCH TO PEOPLE WANT TO INTERFERE WITH THEIR LIVES.

IF EVERYBODY IN THE WORLD LIVED AT THE LEVEL OF CONSUMPTION THAT WE DO IN THE UNITED STATES, IT WOULD TAKE FIVE COPIES OF THE PLANET EARTH TO SUPPORT US ALL.

AND, YOU KNOW, THAT JUST DOESN'T WORK AND ALL THE COUNTRIES THAT ARE IN AFRICA AND EVERYWHERE ELSE, WE MAY OR MAY NOT CARE ABOUT, BUT THEY HAVE NOWHERE TO GO BECAUSE THERE'S NOTHING LEFT FOR THEM.

WHAT THAT AMOUNTS TO IS THAT WE NEED VERY BADLY TO BE A WHOLE LOT MORE INTERNATIONAL THAN WE'VE EVER BEEN BEFORE, A WHOLE LESS SELFISH.

NOT ONLY DO WE NEED TO OVERCOME THE SHOCKING RACIAL DIVERSITY IN OUR COUNTRY, THE SHOCKING PREJUDICE AGAINST DIFFERENT PEOPLE, PEOPLE OF SHOCKING SEGREGATION BASED ON GREED TO HIGHER LEVEL, MORE WEALTHY PEOPLE AND REALLY POORER PEOPLE, WHICH IS SOMETHING THAT NO SOCIETY HAS EVER HAD A REALLY GOOD GO AT EXCEPT TEMPORARILY, NOT ONLY DO WE NEED TO DO THAT, BUT WE NEED TO DO IT WORLDWIDE.

AND IF YOU THINK ABOUT HOW MUCH THE AVERAGE PERSON IN THE UNITED STATES CARES ABOUT THE COUNTRIES IN WEST AFRICA, I THINK YOU'LL CONCLUDE IT'S NOT A LOT.

IT'S GOT TO BE A LOT MORE BECAUSE, GUESS WHAT?

THERE'S ONLY ONE PLANET.

>> THANK YOU.

>> AND BOY, THE PANDEMIC HAS REALLY BROUGHT THAT HOME, HASN'T IT, DR. RAVEN, IN TERMS OF HOW INTERCONNECTED WE ARE.

BUT I WANT TO FOCUS, SORT OF BACKTRACK A LITTLE BIT ON THE HOME FRONT, THE LAND THAT HENRY SHAW -- THE LAND THAT HENRY SHAW HAS THAT YOU'RE SITTING ON WAS ACTUALLY AT ONE TIME CONSIDERED THE SUBURBS, WAS IT NOT?

I MEAN, IT WAS SORT OF THE OUTER RING SUBURBS OF ST. LOUIS.

>> OH, WELL, WHEN HENRY SHAW -- HE OPEN THE GARDEN IN 1859, BEGAN DEVELOPING IT IN THE EARLY 1850s, AND IN THOSE DAYS, IT WAS WAY BEYOND SUBURBS.

THE BUILT-UP PART OF THE CITY WAS ALL DOWN IN THE AREA THAT WE SCRUBBED OFF TO MAKE THE BEAUTIFUL ABANDONED GRASSY AREA AROUND THE ARCH, AND THAT -- THAT'S WHERE THE CITY WAS.

AND THIS WAS -- TOOK HIM, WELL, IT WAS THREE MILES OUTSIDE OF THE EDGE OF THE CITY WHEN HE STARTED IT AND HE DIDN'T START IT ON THE PRESENT 79 ACRES.

HE STARTED A MUCH SMALLER AREA AND, IN FACT, HALF THE LAND WASN'T REALLY USED WHEN I GOT THERE IN 1971.

BUT YEAH, MORE THAN THE SUBURBS.

>> WELL, YOU HAVE BEEN ON JUST ABOUT EVERY BOARD IN THE CITY OF ST. LOUIS AND THE COUNTY AND SURROUNDING AREAS.

YOU KNOW SO MUCH ABOUT THE HISTORY.

YOU JUST BRIEFLY MENTIONED THE RACIAL DIVIDE.

WHAT IN YOUR ESTIMATION IS THE NUMBER ONE CHALLENGE FOR OUR REGION IN 2021, 50 YEARS AFTER YOU GOT HERE?

>> WELL, I THINK EVERYBODY AGREES THAT WE REALLY DO HAVE TO REBUILD THE DOWNTOWN SOMEHOW.

THE DUMB SEPARATION OF THE CITY FROM ALL THE SURROUNDING AREAS AND THE UNFORTUNATE -- WHAT IS THAT BIG RIVER THAT RUNS BETWEEN US?

A QUARTER OF THE PEOPLE IN THE AREA LIVING IN ILLINOIS.

WHEN IN THE 1970s, PEOPLE THOUGHT OF PUTTING THE AIRPORT OVER IN ILLINOIS, WHICH WOULD HAVE BEEN FABULOUS IN TERMS OF INTEGRATING THE AREA, EVERYBODY SHRIEKED AND SAID OH MY LORD NO.

BUT YOU CAN'T SEPARATE A CITY THAT'S FALLEN FROM 8 MILLION PEOPLE TO 3 MILLION AND THERE ARE PLENTY OF GOOD THINGS HANG, BUT IT'S NOT GROWING BACK AND I'M SURE IT WILL, BUT VERY SLOWLY.

BUT ALL THE REALLY SUCCESSFUL CITIES IN THE UNITED STATES NA ATTRACT BUSINESS AND KEEP THINGS GOING AND ALL, HAVE A CENTER, HAVE AN ACTIVE DOWNTOWN AREA, HAVE SOME KIND OF OVERALL GOVERNANCE AND BUILD AROUND THAT, AND THEN WE'VE ALREADY MENTIONED SEGREGATION.

ST. LOUIS IS IN A, MY VIEW, IN A VERY WEIRD SPOT FOR SEGREGATION.

I THINK WE HAVE ONE OF THE WORST SEGREGATED CITIES IN THE UNITED STATES, AND THE REASON IS NOT SO MUCH WHERE HOUSING IS.

HOUSING IS MORE SEGREGATED IN NEW YORK OR CHICAGO, BUT THE OPPORTUNITIES FOR AFRICAN AMERICAN PEOPLE THERE TO FIND JOBS AND BE RECOGNIZED AND BE ACCEPTED AND FIT INTO SOCIETY IS JUST MUCH GREATER THAN IT IS HERE.

WHY IS THAT, I DON'T KNOW.

IT'S STILL CRAMMED SHUT A BIT IN THE SOUTH, BUT EVEN THERE SEEMS LIKE PEOPLE ARE COPING WITH IT BETTER A LOT.

WE'VE GOT TO OVERCOME THAT ONE.

THEN, OF COURSE, LIKE ALL CITIES, WE'VE GOT TO LEARN HOW TO FIT NATURAL HABITAT, NATURAL VEGETATION-SUPPORTING PLACES INTO KIND OF A SCHEME FOR THE OVERALL AREA, METRO AREA, SO IT CAN ALL FIT TOGETHER.

THERE'S A VERY GOOD BOOK BY TONY HISS CALLED "RESCUING THE PLANET," WHICH IS ABOUT BUILDING UP NATURAL LAND AROUND CITIES IN THE UNITED STATES.

WE HAVE TO DO THAT.

WE HAVE TO PUT IT BACK TOGETHER.

WE HAVE TO RECOGNIZE AND EMPOWER WOMEN AND CHILDREN WORLDWIDE.

WE CAN SAY ABOUT A BILLION WOMEN AND CHILDREN HAVE NO RIGHTS OR NO ABILITY TO EFFECT THEIR LIVELIHOOD AT ALL AND -- IN THE WORLD, AND THAT JUST DOESN'T WORK.

ASIDE FROM THE IMMORALITY OF IT, THE RIDICULOUS NATURE OF IT, WE JUST DON'T GET THE ADVANTAGE OF THEIR BRAINS TO HELP US GET AHEAD.

AND THE STATUS OF WOMEN IN THE UNITED STATES IS FAR FROM WHAT IT OUGHT TO BE.

WE OUGHT TO BE EQUAL IN EVERY WAY.

WE'RE DOING THE SAME JOBS, THE SAME THINGS, THE SAME OPPORTUNITIES.

IT'S GETTING BETTER, BUT MAN, IS IT SLOW.

>> DR. RAVEN, WHAT WERE SOME OF THOSE SIMPLE STEPS THAT -- OR MAYBE NOT SIMPLE.

STEPS THAT EACH OF US CAN TAKE TO MAKE THE PLANET MORE SUSTAINABLE?

>> WELL, DO WHAT YOU CAN TO PROMOTE AN INTERNATIONAL ATTITUDE IN YOUR OWN FAMILY AND IN YOUR OWN LIVES.

BE VERY GOOD IF YOU'RE CHILDREN -- IF YOU CAN BE SURE THAT YOUR CHILDREN WILL LEARN THAT THERE'S A LOT OF WORLD BEYOND ST. LOUIS AND, YOU KNOW, THAT'S A LOT OF THE REASON THAT I WAS ANXIOUS TO GET THE JAPANESE GARDEN AND OTHER INTERNATIONALLY THEMED GARDENS IN THE GARDEN, BUT WE HAVE A TENDENCY, LIKE EVERYBODY DOES, TO BE VERY CLOSE TO OUR OWN CITY.

PROMOTING INTERNATIONALISM IN ANY WAY THAT WE CAN WILL BE EXTREMELY IMPORTANT.

THE WAY THE MISSOURI LEGISLATURE BLEW OFF THE LINK WITH CHINA WAS REALLY OBSCENE IN TERMS OF THE FUTURE THAT WE COULD HOPE FOR, AND WE JUST HAVE TO WORK HARDER ON THINGS LIKE THAT, BUT WE HAVE TO WORK HARDER ON KNOWING THEM AND LEARNING ABOUT THEM.

SECONDLY, WE HAVE TO LIVE AS SUSTAINABLY AS WE POSSIBLY CAN.

WE'RE LIVING ALREADY WAY BEYOND OUR OWN CAPACITY, WAY BEYOND THE OWN CAPACITY OUR PART OF THE GLOBE, THE PLANET, AND WE HAVE TO DO THINGS LIKE FIGURE OUT CITIES WHERE YOU CAN LIVE CLOSER TO WORK, WHERE YOU DON'T HAVE TO DRIVE 45 MINUTES OR AN HOUR IN ORDER TO BE ABLE ON GET AT GLOBAL WARMING.

TO EAT LOWER ON THE FOOD CHAIN, LESS MEAT, MORE VEGETABLES AND THINGS.

TO THINK ACTIVELY ABOUT IT.

TO THINK ACTIVELY ABOUT OUR WASTE.

TO THINK ACTIVELY ABOUT MOVING SOURCES OF ENERGY TO WAYS THAT THOSE SOURCES OF ENERGY WILL LAST AND MAINTAIN US OVER THE VERY LONG RUN.

AND THERE'S LOTS AND LOTS OF ANGLES TO THAT AND ALL OF IT NEEDS TO FIT INTO AN INTERNATIONAL CONTEXT.

BUT THERE ARE MANY, MANY THINGS WE CAN DO AND AS I SAID BEFORE, THE MORE WE DO, THE BETTER OFF WE'LL BE.

OVER THE LONGER RUN, WE HAVE TO FIGURE OUT HOW TO HAVE FEWER PEOPLE IN THE WORLD.

THE BUSINESS THAT THE PAPERS KEEP COMING UP WITH, AND THE "NEW YORK TIMES" IS A HUGE OFFENDER ON THAT, WOW, WE'RE FALLING IN POPULATION, YOU KNOW, BIRTHS DIDN'T RISE SO MUCH AND EVERYTHING.

WELL, WE'VE ALREADY GOT, ACCORDING TO MOST SCIENTISTS, ABOUT THREE TO FOUR TIMES AS MANY PEOPLE ON THE EARTH AS IT CAN STAND AND WHEN YOU SAY THE POPULATION HAS TO KEEP GROWING ACTIVELY FOR US TO BE WELL OFF, WHAT DO YOU MEAN?

THAT IT'S ALL GOING TO GROW UP TO THE FACT WHERE WE'RE ALL STANDING SHOULDER TO SHOULDER AND IT'S ALL GOING TO BE SWELL?

NO, WE NEED TO FIGURE OUT A RATIONAL PLAN FOR THE WORLD AND FIND WAYS TO IMPLEMENT IT THROUGH SENSIBLE MOVES IN OUR GOVERNMENT AND THEN AROUND THE WORLD.

THAT'S A VERY, VERY TALL ORDER, BUT WE CAN CERTAINLY DO BETTER AND BETTER, AND THE BETTER WE DO, THE BETTER OFF WE ARE.

>> ALVIN.

>> DR. RAVEN, THE ISSUE YOU MENTIONED THAT WE HAVE, ESPECIALLY IN THIS REGION, WERE THOSE THE SAME PROBLEMS THAT PEOPLE CAUTIONED YOU ABOUT, YOU KNOW, 50 YEARS AGO WHEN YOU WERE MOVING HERE FROM STANFORD OR HAVE THEY CHANGED?

>> WELL, ONE OF MY COLLEAGUES AT STANFORD WAS A NATIVE OF ST. LOUIS WHO WENT TO THE GARDEN IN WASHINGTON UNIVERSE AND WAS ON THE FACULTY AT STANFORD, AND HE SAID THE DAY THAT PEOPLE REALLY CELEBRATED IN ST. LOUIS WAS THE DAY OF THE MELTING OF THE ASPHALT.

SO THAT'S WHAT I REALLY WORRIED ABOUT.

>> YEAH, ACTUALLY, IT DOES HAPPEN.

>> AND I KNEW -- I'D BEEN HERE A NUMBER OF TIMES BEFORE, YOU KNOW, SEVERAL TIMES BEFORE PROFESSIONALLY, BUT I DIDN'T -- NO, I WASN'T PARTICULARLY AWARE WHAT THE PROBLEMS WOULD BE.

AS I SAID, I HAD BASICALLY NO EXPERIENCE IN SUPERVISION OR IN FUNDRAISING, AND I WAS HIRED REALLY LARGELY BECAUSE OF MY SCIENTIFIC ABILITY AND MY ABILITY TO FIT INTO THE PROGRAM AT WASHINGTON UNIVERSITY.

SO I DIDN'T HAVE ANY IDEA ABOUT SEGREGATION, I HAD VERY LITTLE IDEA ABOUT SEGREGATION ANYWAY.

I HAD VERY LITTLE IDEA ABOUT -- I MEAN, BEING FROM THE SAN FRANCISCO BAY AREA, I THOUGHT THAT CITIES HAD A NATURAL CENTER AND THEN THEY HAD SUBURBS AROUND IT AND IT ALL RELATED TO ONE ANOTHER.

I WAS HERE SEVERAL TIMES AND SAW THE ARCH IN VARIOUS STAGES OF COMPLETION, BUT I DIDN'T REALIZE THAT AT THE TIME WHAT A TERRIBLE MISTAKE IT WOULD BE, TO REAM OUT DOWNTOWN AND PUT TWO 44 AND 70 COMING OUT DIAGONALLY FROM THE MIDDLE OF THAT WHICH WOULD HAVE SUCH A NEGATIVE IMPACT ON THE CITY, ASIDE FROM THE FACT THAT IT WAS ALREADY SET OFF POLITICALLY FROM ALL THE REST OF THE AREA.

NO, I SAW A LOT OF THINGS GOING BY.

I CONCENTRATED MY EFFORT ON BUILDING ON A LONGTIME LOVE OF THE GARDEN THAT PEOPLE HAD.

OF COURSE, THE GARDEN WAS VERY TRADITIONALLY SEGREGATED.

I WORKED HARD ON THAT, BOTH IN EMPLOYMENT AND TRYING TO GET VISITORS UP, BUT I WORKED WITH A LONGTIME LOVE THAT PEOPLE HAD AND EVENTUALLY I WAS ABLE TO -- THE ZOO MUSEUM DISTRICT PASSED ABOUT EIGHT WEEKS BEFORE I GOT HERE TO ST. LOUIS FOR THE ART MUSEUM, THE ZOO, AND THE SCIENCE CENTER, AND AFTER TEN YEARS OF WORK, CELEBRATING THINGS GOING ON AT THE GARDEN, BUILDING A MASTER PLAN, PUTTING IT ALL TOGETHER AS BEST I COULD, WE WERE ABLE TO PERSUADE THE PEOPLE OF ST. LOUIS AND ST. LOUIS COUNTY TO PASS LEGISLATION WHICH WOULD ALLOW US TO RECEIVE FUNDING FROM BOTH THE CITY AND THE COUNTY, AND THAT MADE A HUGE DIFFERENCE IN WHERE THE GARDEN COULD GO.

WHEN I GOT HERE, THE INCOME OF THE GARDEN WAS ABOUT ONE MILLION DOLLARS.

NOW IT'S ABOUT 43 MILLION AND ABOUT 11 MILLION COMES FROM THE ZOO MUSEUM DISTRICT.

NOW, IF YOU LOOK AT EXPLORING ALL AROUND THE WORLD, LEARNING ABOUT PLANTS AND SAVING THEM, WE JUST HAD SEVERAL PEOPLE, AS SOMEBODY MENTIONED WHEN I GOT HERE, AND IT WAS FORTUNATELY A TIME WHEN THE NATIONAL SCIENCE FOUNDATION AND OTHER AGENCIES WERE BUILDING UP, AND I REALIZED THAT BECAUSE THE GARDEN, WITH ITS BIG PLANT COLLECTIONS, I MEAN, SPECIMENS OF PLANTS AND WORLD CLASS LIBRARY, WAS IN A POSITION TO WORK ALL AROUND THE WORLD, WHICH IS SOMETHING IT REALLY HADN'T DONE BEFORE.

SO I GOT FUNDS AND WE GOT FUNDS IN VARIOUS WAYS AND GOT PEOPLE BUSY IN PART OF LATIN AMERICA THAT WEREN'T BEING LOOKED AT SO MUCH OTHERWISE, GOT PEOPLE LIVING THERE TO ENCOURAGE THOSE PEOPLE, GOT GOING IN AFRICA AND ON THE ISLAND OF MADAGASCAR, WHICH IS ESPECIALLY INTERESTING, AND WORKED ON -- JOINTLY ON AN ACCOUNT OF ALL THE PLANTS IN CHINA, A 50-VOLUME WORK THAT I BOW EDITED AND -- COEDITED AND BECAME WORLDWIDE IN REPUTATION, SO FROM A SCIENTIFIC POINT OF VIEW, WE WERE ALWAYS THOUGHT OF REALLY HIGHLY SCIENTIFICALLY AND SOCIALLY, BUT IN A WORLD THAT WAS QUITE CLEARLY CONSTRUCT BLING AROUND UT -- CRUMBLING AROUND US, WE WERE ABLE TO BECOME VERY ACTIVE AND PLAY A MAJOR ROLE IN HELPING PEOPLE AROUND THE WORLD, IN WORKING WITH THEM AND LIVING IN THEIR COUNTRIES AND BUILDING THINGS UP AND LEARNING ABOUT PLANTS.

A LOT OF THOSE PLANTS WE WERE LOOKING AT ARE SIMPLY -- AND ANIMALS, ARE SIMPLY GOING TO BE GONE BY THE END OF THIS CENTURY AND WE'RE GOING TO HAVE TO DEAL WITH THAT.

I THINK THE IMPORTANT THING TO DO, MAYBE ONE OF THE MOST DIRECT THINGS TO DO, AND 70% THE PEOPLE REALLY ALREADY ACCEPT THE FACT, IS WORK VERY HARD ON CLIMATE CHANGE.

ANYBODY TRIES TO STOP THAT NOW IS BASICALLY TAKING CRIMINAL ACTION.

>> RAY.

>> YOU DESCRIBED HOW TRANSFORMATIONAL REALLY YOU'VE BEEN, AND YOU MAY NOT PUT IT IN TERMS THAT YOU HAVE, WITH REGARD TO THE GARDEN AND, OF COURSE, YOU'RE STILL PRESIDENT EMERITUS, RIGHT?

>> YEAH.

>> I THINK IT'S SO UNDERRATED, BUT I THINK A LOT OF PEOPLE THINK OF IT AS A PLACE THAT I DID PLAYS BEAUTIFUL PLANS AND STUFF.

HOW DO YOU WANT PEOPLE TO SEE THE MISSION THE GARDEN?

HOW HAS IT CHANGED MORE BROADLY FOR PEOPLE IN ST. LOUIS TO UNDERSTAND WHAT IT'S ALL ABOUT?

>> AS CONSERVATION HAS BECOME MORE AND MORE IMPERATIVE AND CONSERVATION OF PLANTS, AND PLANTS WHICH SUPPLY ALL OF OUR FOOD, MOST OF OUR MEDICINES, KEEP THE SOIL, ABSORB POLLUTION AND ALL THE REST, ARE SO IMPORTANT TO US, I'D LIKE TO SEE PEOPLE VIEW THE GARDEN AS A WORLDWIDE, INTERNATIONAL EFFORT THAT WE HAVE GOING IN ST. LOUIS, EVERY BIT MUCH SO AS THE DANFORTH CENTER, ALL THE BIOCHEMICAL WORK HERE WHICH THE GARDEN ITSELF MADE AND BE VERY PROUD OF IT IN THAT REGARD AND USE IT AS A WAY TO BUILD OUR INTERNATIONAL ACTIVITIES AND OUR PRIDE.

IT'S A WONDERFUL INSTITUTION, BASICALLY THE OLDESTING ABOUT IN THE UNITED STATES AND SOMETHING OF -- OLDEST BOTANICAL GARDEN IN THE UNITED STATES AND IT'S SOMETHING THAT EVERYBODY IS ALREADY PROUD AND CAN BUILD ON TO DO MORE AND MORE IN CONSERVATION, USE TO IT BUILD A BETTER AND BETTER INTERNATIONAL CLIMATE IN THE FUTURE, AND WE CAN USE IT TO HELP PEOPLE TO UNDERSTAND THE OPPORTUNITIES THAT THEY HAVE TO TRY TO REACH SUSTAINABILITY FOR US ALL.

>> WE ONLY HAVE 30 SECONDS TO GO, BILL.

>> WHEN I GO TO SCHNUCKS TO OVER OVERCONSUME, THEY WON'T LET ME TAKE MY CANVAS BAG, PAPER OR PLASTIC?

>> I MISSED THAT.

>> I CAN'T TAKE FLY CANVAS BAG TO SCHNUCKS.

WHAT SHOULD I ASK FOR, PAPER OR PLASTIC?

>> WELL, THE SIMPLEST THING IS LESS MEAT.

[ LAUGHTER ] >> AND CARRY IT IN YOUR ARMS OUT THE DOOR I WAS GOING TO SAY THAT.

>> I NOTICE YOUR INCISORS ARE PRETTY SHARP THOUGH.

>> THE BOOK IS "DRIVEN BY NATURE."

THERE YOU HAVE IT.

IT'S BRAND-NEW BY OUR GUEST, DR. PETER RAVEN, AND, OF COURSE, FATHER'S DAY, THE HOLIEST DAY ON THE CALENDAR, IS JUST AROUND THE CORNER, AND SO DR. RAVEN, A GREAT GIFT IDEA FOR DEAR OLD DAD.

THANK YOU VERY MUCH FOR JOINING US ON NINE PBS.

WE WISH YOU THE BEST AND HAPPY 50th ANNIVERSARY.

>> THANK YOU.

LOVE YOUR PROGRAM.

>> THANK YOU SO MUCH.

>> THANKS, EVERYBODY.

>> THANK YOU FOR THE LANTERN FESTIVAL AND GARDEN GLOW.

>> YOU'RE WELCOME.

>> AND THE IGUANAS RUNNING FREE.

>> Announcer: DONNYBROOK IS MADE POSSIBLE BY THE SUPPORT OF THE BETSY AND THOMAS PATTERSON FOUNDATION AND THE MEMBERS OF NINE PBS.