Captioned by Media Access Group at WGBH access.wgbh.org >> Braude: TONIGHT ON "GREATER BOSTON": WITH THE JANUARY 6 COMMISSION BILL LIKELY TO FAIL IN THE SENATE WITHOUT ENOUGH SUPPORT FROM REPUBLICANS, A FORMER REPUBLICAN MEMBER OF THAT BODY, SCOTT BROWN, JOINS ME ON WHY HE'D VOTE YES, CONGRESSWOMAN MARJORIE TAYLOR GREENE, AND THE FUTURE OF HIS PARTY.

THEN, LATER, AS PART OF THE STATE OF EMERGENCY, RESTAURANTS COULD SELL COCKTAILS TO GO DURING THE PANDEMIC.

BUT NOW THAT IT'S SET TO EXPIRE AS THE INDUSTRY IS STILL STRUGGLING, SOME ARE CALLING FOR THE PROGRAM TO CONTINUE, INCLUDING STATE SENATOR DIANA DIZOGLIO.

SHE AND ROBERT MELLION, HEAD OF THE MASSACHUSETTS PACKAGE STORES ASSOCIATION, WHICH OPPOSE THE EXTENSION, WILL DEBATE.

AND, FINALLY, GRANITE TELECOMMUNICATIONS C.E.O.

ROB HALE, WHO SHARED MORE THAN WORDS AS QUINCY COLLEGE'S COMMENCEMENT SPEAKER, HE ALSO GAVE GRADUATES 1,000 BUCKS EACH.

HE'LL TELL ME WHY.

>>> IN THE DAYS AFTER THE JANUARY 6th ATTACK ON THE CAPITOL, EVEN SOME OF DONALD TRUMP'S LONG-TIME REPUBLICAN ALLIES COULDN'T STOMACH HIS INSURRECTIONIST WAYS ANYMORE.

>> THERE IS NO QUESTION, NONE, THAT PRESIDENT TRUMP IS PRACTICALLY AND MORALLY RESPONSIBLE FOR PROVOKING THE EVENTS OF THE DAY.

>> ALL I CAN SAY IS COUNT ME OUT.

ENOUGH IS ENOUGH.

>> Braude: BUT, OF COURSE, THAT OUTRAGE QUICKLY DISSIPATED, WITH SENATOR LINDSEY GRAHAM HOPPING ON A PLANE WITH TRUMP LESS THAN A WEEK LATER.

AND DESPITE EFFORTS FROM DEMOCRATS, AND SOME REPUBLICANS IN THE HOUSE, TO DRAFT A BIPARTISAN PROPOSAL THAT THEY SAY MET EVERY DEMAND FROM G.O.P.

LEADERS IN CONGRESS, McCONNELL CAME OUT AGAINST THE DEAL LAST WEEK.

>> AFTER CAREFUL CONSIDERATION, I'VE MADE THE DECISION TO OPPOSE THE HOUSE DEMOCRATS' SLANTED AND UNBALANCED PROPOSAL FOR ANOTHER COMMISSION TO STUDY THE EVENTS OF JANUARY 6.

>> Braude: AN EQUAL NUMBER OF DEMOCRATS AND REPUBLICANS IS SLANTED AND UNBALANCED?

AND WHILE THE HOUSE DID PASS THE BILL LAST WEEK, WITH 35 REPUBLICANS BREAKING RANK TO SUPPORT IT, WITHOUT McCONNELL ON BOARD, GETTING THE NECESSARY 10 REPUBLICANS IN THE SENATE APPEARS DOUBTFUL.

BUT IN AN OP-ED IN "THE BOSTON GLOBE," MY NEXT GUEST ARGUES SUCH AN EFFORT IS THE ONLY WAY FOR THE COUNTRY AND THE REPUBLICAN PARTY TO MOVE FORWARD.

THAT WOULD BE FORMER REPUBLICAN U.S.

SENATOR FROM MASSACHUSETTS, THEN AMBASSADOR TO NEW ZEALAND AND SAMOA, NO THE PRESIDENT, C.E.O., AND DEAN OF NEW ENGLAND LAW BOSTON, SCOTT BROWN.

>> Braude: SENATOR, GOOD TO SEE YOU, THANKS SO MUCH FOR BEING HERE.

>> JIM, GREAT TO BE ON, AND GOOD EVENING TO YOU AND YOUR VIEWERS.

>> Braude: SO YOU WROTE THAT FOR THE G.O.P.

TO MAKE A COMPELLING ALTERNATIVE CASE TO THE DEMOCRATS' AGENDA, THEY'VE GOT TO CONFRONT THE DEADLY VIOLENCE OF JANUARY 6.

THE BEST WAY TO DO THAT IS THROUGH THE COMMISSION.

YOU SERVE WITH A LOT OF THESE REPUBLICAN SENATORS.

WHY ARE THEY NOT ON BOARD?

>> WELL, IT'S NOT OVER UNTIL IT IS OVER.

AND I AM HOPEFUL.

I KNOW THAT SUSAN COLLINS IS WORKING BEHIND THE SCENES TO TRY TO GET A VERY POSITIVE BIPARTISAN BILL.

HERE IS THE THING: DO YOU WANT TO HAVE A FOUR-YEAR SELECT COMMITTEE, VERY SIMILAR TO WHAT HAPPENED OVER THE LAST FOUR YEARS?

OR DO YOU WANT TO HAVE AN INDEPENDENT COMMISSION, TRULY INDEPENDENT, UNBIAS, TRANSPARENT, THAT WILL BE DONE BY THE END OF THIS YEAR SO YOU CAN MOVE ON?

I, FOR ONE, AM IN FAVOR OF THE COMMISSION.

YOU HAVE GOOD PEOPLE.

IF YOU DON'T WANT IT TO BE POLITICIANS, GET SOME GOOD PEOPLE.

HOW ABOUT GENERAL PATREAS.

TREAS?

THERE ARE SO MANY PEOPLE WHO WANT TO SERVE THEIR COUNTRY AND FIND OUT WHAT HAPPENED.

CAN YOU IMAGINE IF IT WAS A FOREIGN COUNTRY THAT CAME IN AND STORMED THE CAPITOL?

I WANT TO KNOW WHY IT HAPPENED.

WAS THEIR SECURITY?

THEY SHOULD HAVE KNOWN SOMETHING WAS HAPPENING.

IT SEEMS SILLY TO ME.

>> Braude: YOU SAID ON OUR RADIO SHOW AS FAR BACK AS FEBRUARY, THAT TRUMP BORE RESPONSIBILITY FOR THIS.

IT SEEMS TO ME THAT IS WHAT IS KEEPING THE REPUBLICANS AWAY FROM THIS, THEY'RE SCARED TO DEATH OF DONALD TRUMP EVEN WITHOUT A TWITTER ACCOUNT.

ISN'T THAT WHAT IT IS ALL ABOUT?

>> I'M NOT SURE.

BUT LET'S BE HONEST, LET'S FIND OUT.

THAT'S WHAT THE INDEPENDENT COMMISSION WILL DO.

>> Braude: YOU'RE ONE OF THOSE PEOPLE, BY THE WAY.

>> I DON'T KNOW.

LISTEN, I BELIEVE HE PLAYED A ROLE.

I'M ALREADY ON RECORD.

IT IS FAIRLY STRAIGHTFORWARD.

BUT THERE ARE OTHER BAD ACTORS, TOO.

AND NANCY PELOSI, AS YOU KNOW, IS IN CHARGE OF THE CAPITAL.

SHE IS IN CHARGE OF SECURITY.

WHAT WENT WRONG?

BECAUSE IT WAS VERY, VERY EASY TO GET THROUGH THERE.

>> Braude: YOU'RE NOT COMPARING THE ROLE OF PELOSI AND THE ROLE OF DONALD TRUMP ON JANUARY 6, ARE YOU?

>> NO, NO, OF COURSE NOT.

BUT WE NEED TO FIND OUT -- IT IS NOT JUST ABOUT PRESIDENT TRUMP'S ROLE.

I'M REALLY CONCERNED ABOUT THE LOGISTICAL PROBLEMS.

LIKE WHY WASN'T THE NATIONAL GUARD ON DUTY?

WHY WEREN'T THERE MORE POLICE OFFICERS?

WHERE IS EVERYBODY?

AND TO HAVE REALLY A MINOR FORCE OF POLICE OFFICERS THERE TO PROTECT THEM, THAT'S NOT REALLY THEIR JOB -- THAT'S WHAT I WANT TO FIND OUT SO IT DOESN'T HAPPEN AGAIN.

I WAS ON THE JOB FOR TWO DAYS AT THE SCHOOL, AND I'M SAYING, OKAY, AM I WATCHING AN ACTION MOVIE OR SOME -- >> Braude: A DEADLY ACTION MOVIE.

>> -- OR A BANANA REPUBLIC TYPE OF SITUATION?

I WAS ANGRY.

I WAS EMBARRASSED, AND I JUST DON'T WANT IT TO HAPPEN AGAIN, PERIOD.

>> Braude: SO LET'S ASSUME THAT YOU'RE OPTIMISM IS NOT WELL-FOUNDED, AND THERE ARE NOT 10 REPUBLICAN VOTES FOR THIS, SHOULD THE DEMOCRATS, IF THEY CAN'T GET 10 REPUBLICANS IN THE SENATE, BREAK THE FILIBUSTER FOR THIS ONE ISSUE SO THEY CAN GET THIS BIPARTISAN COMMISSION GOING?

>> I THINK ALL OPTIONS SHOULD BE ON THE TABLE.

I THINK IT IS SO IMPORTANT FOR US TO FIND OUT WHAT HAPPENED, MAKE SURE IT NEVER HAPPENS AGAIN, AND THEN MOVE ON.

I -- WE AT THE NEW ENGLAND SCHOOL OF LAW BOSTON, WE'RE TEACHING OUR STUDENTS THAT FACTS MATTER, AND THAT WE ARE AND DO HAVE RULE OF LAW, AND WE HAVE TO FIND A WAY TO STOP RELITIGATING PAST PROBLEMS AND ISSUES AND ACTUALLY FIND OUT WHAT IS HAPPENING RIGHT NOW AND FIGURE IT OUT, AND THEN MOVE FORWARD.

AND THAT'S WHAT WE'RE TEACHING.

I'M HOPEFUL THAT THEY LISTEN IN D.C. >> Braude: CAN WE TALK ABOUT THE FUTURE OF YOUR PARTY FOR A MINUTE, MORE BROADLY, BEYOND THIS JANUARY 6 THING.

G.O.P.

LEADERS IN CONGRESS HAVE BEEN SILENT IN RESPONSE TO CONGRESSWOMAN MARJORIE TAYLOR GREENE, TALKING ABOUT PELOSI AND THE HOUSE MASK MANDATE.

HERE SHE IS.

>> THIS WOMAN IS MENTALLY ILL. WE CAN LOOK BACK AT A TIME IN HISTORY WHERE PEOPLE WERE TOLD TO WEAR A GOLD STAR AND THEY WERE DEFINITELY TREATED LIKE SECOND-CLASS CITIZENS.

SO MUCH SO THAT THEY WERE PUT IN TRAINS AND TAKEN TO GAS CHAMBERS IN NAZI GERMANY, AND THIS IS EXACTLY THE TYPE OF ABUSE THAT NANCY PELOSI IS TALKING ABOUT.

>> Braude: SCOTT BROWN, THIS WOMAN COMPARES A HOUSE MASK MANDATE TO THE HOLOCAUST, AND NOT ONE SINGLE LEADING REPUBLICAN HAS SAID BOO ABOUT WHAT SHE HAD TO SAY.

HOW BANKRUPT IS YOUR PARTY?

>> JIM, FIRST OF ALL, I'LL SAY IT.

IT WAS ABHORRENT AND DISGUSTING AND COMPLETELY UNACCEPTABLE.

I DON'T EVEN KNOW REALLY HOW TO RESPOND.

IT IS SO DEMENTED.

ARE WE A BIG-TENT PARTY, RONALD REAGAN, BRING EVERYBODY IN, OR ARE WE GOING TO BE A NARROW, SMALL-TENT PARTY?

THAT'S WHY WE HAVE TO STOP RELITIGATING THE PAST, FOCUS ON THE FACTS OF TODAY, HAVE THIS COMMISSION AND START WORKING TOGETHER.

WHILE SHE IS TALKING ABOUT MASKS, CHINA IS TRYING TO EAT OUR LUNCH, CHANGING THE LAW OF THE AIR OF THE SEA, STEALING OUR INTELLECTUAL PROPERTY, YOU SEE WHAT IS HAPPENING IN ISRAEL AND RUSSIA.

THERE ARE SO MANY THINGS THAT ARE IMPORTANT: THE HIGH COST OF FUEL AND THE DEBT.

WHY DON'T WE FOCUS ON WHAT REALLY MATTERS TO PEOPLE AND NOT ON WHETHER NANCY PELOSI IS MANDATING A MASK IN CONGRESS.

DOES ANYONE REALLY CARE ABOUT THAT?

IT DOESN'T HAVE ANY BEARING ON OUR LIVES RIGHT NOW.

WE WANT THEM TO DO THE PEOPLE'S BUSINESS.

>> Braude: SCOTT BROWN, WHEN YOU SAY A BIG TENT, IN THE TRADITIONAL SENSE, I UNDERSTAND WHAT YOU MEAN.

BUT LET'S JUST WORK FROM JANUARY 6th.

WHAT IS THE REPUBLICAN PARTY WELL-KNOWN FOR?

ADVANCING VOTER SUPPRESSION LAWS IN STATE, APOLOGIZING FOR INSURRECTIONISTS, CALLING, AT LEAST IN ONE CASE, NORMAL TOURISTS.

VOTING AGAINST COVID RELIEF FOR THE AMERICAN PEOPLE.

WHAT IS THE TENT THAT REPUBLICANS ARE BUILDING?

I MEAN -- >> WELL, THAT'S A GREAT QUESTION.

>> Braude: WHAT'S THE FUTURE OF A PARTY LIKE THIS?

>> THAT'S A GREAT QUESTION.

AS LONG AS YOU HAVE GREAT PEOPLE LIKE ME AND OTHERS, AND THERE ARE MANY OUT THERE, NOT ONLY IN D.C., BUT AROUND THE COUNTRY, WHO BELIEVE THIS COUNTRY IS THE GREATEST COUNTRY IN THE WORLD.

AND WHILE WE HAVE SOME ISSUES WE'RE DEALING WITH, WE HAVE A VERY STRONG SOCIAL FABRIC, AND EVERY TIME WE'VE BEEN IN CONFLICT, WE HAVE ALWAYS COME TOGETHER AND MOVED FORWARD.

I BELIEVE THAT IN MY HEART.

THAT BEING SAID, YEAH, THERE ARE CERTAIN VOTES I CERTAINLY WOULD HAVE TAKEN.

I WOULDN'T HAVE SUPPORTED THEM.

AND THERE NEEDS TO BE SOME LEADERSHIP IN THE HOUSE AND SENATE.

I'M GLAD YOU HAD 35 REPUBLICANS IN THE HOUSE SUPPORT THIS INITIATIVE.

AND YOU LOOK AT THE WHOLE COMMENT ABOUT TOURISTS -- ARE YOU KIDDING ME?

THEY WEREN'T TOURISTS -- MAYBE THERE WERE A HANDFUL -- >> Braude: DO YOU HAVE CONFIDENCE IN THE REPUBLICAN PARTY, AS CONSTRUCTED, ADVANCING THE ISSUES THEY NOW ADVANCE, THAT THEY CAN SURVIVE AS A MAJOR PARTY IN THIS COUNTRY?

>> LISTEN, I'M NOT A FORTUNE-TELLER, AND I REPRESENT SUSAN COLLINS, AND SHE IS A PROBLEM-SOLVER, AND SHE IS INTIMATELY INVOLVED, AND I WISH HER WELL.

AND I HOPE SHE HAS SUCCESS BECAUSE IT WILL BENEFIT NOT ONLY THE PARTY -- QUITE FRANKLY, I THINK THIS ISSUE IS BIGGER THAN ANY PARTY -- MAKING SURE WE FIGURE OUT WHAT HAPPENED IS BIGGER THAN ANY PARTY.

I BELIEVE IN A VIBRANT, TWO-PARTY SYSTEM.

IN ORDER FOR OUR DEMOCRACY TO WORK, WE NEED A VIBRANT, TWO-PARTY SYSTEM.

I'M A GLASS HALF FULL GUY, I'M NOT THERE, BUT RIGHT NOW I'M SPEAKING OUT, AND I'M DOING WHAT I CAN TO TRY TO HELP AND PUSH THIS ALONG, AND I ENCOURAGE OTHERS TO DO THE SAME.

>> Braude: LAST THING FOR ME, SCOTT BROWN, ON CNN, AND A FAVORITE RADIO SHOW OF YOUR IN NEW ZEALAND, YOU WERE ASKED IF YOU COULD SUPPORT DONALD TRUMP IF HE WERE TO RUN AGAIN IN 2024, AND IT SEEMED TO ME YOU WERE LEAVING THE DOOR OPEN.

YOU SAID, I DON'T KNOW.

>> NO, I DIDN'T SAY THAT.

WHAT I SAID WAS -- >> Braude: WHAT DID YOU SAY?

>> I SAID I'M HAVING MY NO B.S.

BARBECUES, AND IT IS IN THREE AND A HALF YEARS, AND I DON'T THINK PEOPLE ARE REALLY THINKING ABOUT THAT.

WE'RE GOING TO BRING EVERY CANDIDATE THROUGH NEW HAMPSHIRE BECAUSE I'M AN UNDECIDED VOTER, AS THERE ARE PROBABLY 70% HERE IN NEW HAMPSHIRE.

>> Braude: CAN YOU IMAGINE A CIRCUMSTANCE IN WHICH YOU WOULD VOTE FOR DONALD TRUMP -- >> I THINK IT IS PROBABLY UNLIKELY.

IT'S UNLIKELY -- HE MAY RUN.

HE MAY GET THE NOMINATION, BUT I DON'T BELIEVE HE WILL WIN.

>> Braude: ARE YOU DONE WITH ELECTORAL POLITICS FOR YOURSELF?

>> RIGHT NOW I'M DONE.

AS I SAID ON YOUR SHOW, I'M PRETTY DISGUSTING.

AND THIS IS A PERFECT EXAMPLE.

THIS IS SOMETHING THAT TO BE A NO-BRAINER.

DO THE PEOPLE'S BUSINESS.

GET IT DONE AND MOVE ON.

UNTIL WE GRAPPLE WITH WHAT HAPPENED ON JANUARY 6, WE WILL JUST BE MUDDLING AROUND AND I FIND THAT UNACCEPTABLE.

>> Braude: GOOD LUCK WITH LAW SCHOOL.

BE WELL.

THANK YOU FOR YOUR TIME.

>> THANK YOU, EVERYBODY.

> IN LESS THAN A WEEK, VIRTUALLY ALL REMAINING COVID-19 RESTRICTIONS IN MASSACHUSETTS WILL BE LIFTED, AND BUSINESSES ACROSS THE STATE WILL BE ABLE TO REOPEN AT FULL CAPACITY.

AND A COUPLE WEEKS AFTER THAT, ON JUNE 15, GOVERNOR CHARLIE BAKER IS SET TO LIFT THE STATE OF EMERGENCY HE DECLARED LAST MARCH.

THE GOVERNOR TOLD US ON THE RADIO THE OTHER DAY THAT THE EXTRA TIME WAS FOR THE LEGISLATURE AND HIM TO DECIDE WHICH OF THESE EMERGENCY MEASURES SHOULD BE EXTENDED.

ONE THAT HAS THE BACKING OF THE RESTAURANT INDUSTRY?

TO-GO COCKTAILS.

RESTAURANTS AND BARS HAVE BEEN ABLE TO INCLUDE ALCOHOLIC BEVERAGES IN TAKEOUT AND DELIVERY ORDERS SINCE LAST SUMMER, BUT THAT'S GONE IN MID-JUNE.

SO THEY WANT LAWMAKERS TO DO SOMETHING ROUGHLY 20 OTHER STATES HAVE ALREADY DONE, SOME EVEN MAKING IT PERMANENT.

RIGHT NOW A BILL SPONSORED BY METHUEN STATE SENATOR DIANA DIZOGLIO WOULD EXTEND COCKTAILS TO GO FOR ANOTHER TWO YEARS, AND THE SENATOR'S ALSO OFFERED AMENDMENTS TO THE SENATE BUDGET, THAT'S UP FOR DEBATE THIS WEEK, WHICH WOULD DO THE SAME.

BUT THE PROPOSALS ARE GETTING A LOT OF PUSHBACK FROM LIQUOR STORES.

STATE SENATOR DIANA DIZOGLIO AND ROBERT MELLION, EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR AND GENERAL COUNSEL OF THE MASSACHUSETTS PACKAGE STORES ASSOCIATION, JOIN ME NOW TO DEBATE.

>> Braude: SENATOR AND ROB, THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR BEING HERE.

>> THANK YOU.

>> THANK YOU FOR HAVING ME ON.

>> Braude: SENATOR, WHY EXTEND COCKTAILS TO GO?

>> COCKTAILS TO GO IS SOMETHING THAT HAS PROVEN VERY SUCCESSFUL, FOX FOR OUR RESTAURANTS TO BE ABLE TO SURVIVE THE PANDEMIC.

IT ADDED MUCH-NEEDED REVENUE TO THEIR BOTTOM LINE, IT HAS ASSISTED THEM IN KEEPING THE LIGHTS ON, EMPLOYEES ON THE PAYROLL, AMONGST MANY OTHER THINGS.

AND IT IS VERY POPULAR WITH RESIDENTS, ESPECIALLY THOSE, JIM, WHO ARE STRUGGLING WITH THE IDEA OF GOING INTO RESTAURANTS FOR IN-PERSON DINING, WHICH WE KNOW HAS BEEN SOMETHING THAT ALMOST HALF OF THE RESIDENTS IN MASSACHUSETTS HAVE SAID THEY STILL HAVE CONCERNS WITH.

>> Braude: ROB, WHY IS THE SENATOR WRONG?

>> SO THE AMENDMENT PROCESS IS NOT THE WAY TO CHANGE DECADES-OLD ALCOHOL BEVERAGE LAWS THAT INTENTIONALLY SEGREGATE, SEPARATE SECTION 12 LICENSES, RESTAURANTS, AND SECTION 15 LICENSES.

THE WAY TO DO THIS, IF YOU'RE GOING TO MAKE CHANGES THAT ARE THIS MATERIAL, WHERE YOU'RE GOING TO ALLOW RESTAURANTS TO BE BOTH ON THE PREMISE AND THE OFF PREMISE RETAILERS, YOU HAVE TO HAVE OPEN HEARINGS ABOUT THIS.

YOU HAVE TO HAVE OPEN DIALOGUE.

YOU HAVE TO HAVE AN OPPORTUNITY FOR THE PUBLIC SAFETY TO WEIGH IN.

WE'RE NOT DOING THAT WITH THE CURRENT PROCESS.

>> Braude: ROB, WE'LL GET IN A MINUTE TO THE PROCESS.

BUT I WANT TO ASK YOU ON THE MERITS.

LIQUOR STORES, FROM WHAT I READ IN THE NEWSPAPER, HAD A PRETTY GOOD YEAR.

THEY WERE OPEN THROUGHOUT, PROFITS UP.

ACCORDING TO THE RESTAURANT ASSOCIATION, 23%, A QUARTER OF RESTAURANTS IN THIS STATE, CLOSED PERMANENTLY, AND THE OTHERS DIDN'T DO SO HOT.

AT LEAST AS A TRANSITION, IF NOT PERMANENTLY, DOESN'T SOMETHING THAT ALLOWS THEM TO RECOUP SOME OF THEIR LOUSES, ISN'T THAT EC EQUITABLE?

>> I'M GLAD YOU ASKED THIS QUESTION.

THIS MAKES THE ASSUMPTION -- THIS IS SOMETHING THAT THE MEDIA HAS MISCHARACTERIZED OUR INDUSTRY OVER.

IT HAPPIEST HASN'T BEEN SO GOOD FOR A LOT OF STORES ACROSS THE STATE.

RETAIL HAS TAKEN A BEATING LIKE EVERYBODY ELSE -- >> Braude: LIQUOR STORES AND PACKAGE STORES ARE NOT UP?

EVERY STORY I'VE READ IN THIS PAST YEAR -- >> A LOT OF -- >> Braude: -- SAID THAT BUSINESSES WERE UP.

>> A LOT OF THESE STORIES WERE PRINTED WITHOUT REACHING OUT TO US OR OUR MEMBERS.

THE FACT IS THAT A LOT OF STORES DID NOT SEE PROFITS.

I'LL GIVE YOU AN EXAMPLE.

THE STORES IN THE BOSTON AREA, THEY DID NOT SEE PROFITS BECAUSE THERE WAS NOBODY IN BOSTON TO GO TO THEIR STORES.

THEY DIDN'T GET THE BENEFIT OF NATIONAL BAILOUTS OR STATE BAILOUTS.

>> Braude: SO OVER ALL -- ROB, JUST SO I'M CLEAR, YOU'RE SAYING ACROSS THE BOARD THERE WAS NOT AN INCREASE IN REVENUES AND PROFITS FOR LIQUOR STORES IN THE STATE.

IS THAT WHAT YOU'RE SAYING?

>> I'M SAYING THAT THE REVENUES ARE NOT WHAT PEOPLE THINK.

DID SOME STORES MAKE PROFIT, YES.

THERE WERE SOME STORES THAT MADE ABOUT 3% PROFIT.

BECAUSE THE COST OF DOING BUSINESS IS A LOT HIGHER IN THIS ENVIRONMENT THAN WHAT IS BEING ACKNOWLEDGED HERE.

AND I'M NOT SAYING THAT RESTAURANTS -- >> Braude: I'VE GOT TO STOP YOU THERE.

SENATOR, HOW ABOUT THE PROCESS -- THIS MAY BORE PEOPLE AT HOME, BUT THIS IS A PRETTY MAJOR SHIFT.

AND THE REALITY IS IF YOU GET A TWO-YEAR EXTENSION, IT SHOULD BE EASIER TO MAKE IT PERMANENT.

WHY SHOULDN'T THERE BE HEARINGS?

ISN'T THAT WHAT SMALL DEMOCRACY IS ABOUT?

>> ABSOLUTELY.

I COMPLETELY SUPPORT THAT 100%.

I ACTUALLY HAD A ROBUST DEBATE WITH ROB, WHO IS HERE ON THIS CALL WITH US, DURING THE HEARING THAT THIS DID HAVE SEVERAL MONTHS AGO.

WE DID HAVE AN OPPORTUNITY TO DISCUSS THIS.

AND THIS WAS SOMETHING THAT WAS REPORTED OUT FAVORABLY AND TENT THROUGH THE PROCESS.

AND WE'VE BEEN DOING THIS.

THIS IS NOT A NEW PIECE OF LEGISLATION.

THIS IS SOMETHING THAT HAS ALREADY BEEN ENACTED IN THE STATE OF MASSACHUSETTS.

WHAT I'M ASKING FOR IS AN EXTENSION OF SOME OF THESE PROVISIONS THAT WE'VE ALREADY SEEN IMPLEMENTED TO ASSIST OUR LOCAL RESTAURANTS AS THEY CONTINUE ON THEIR PATH TO RECOVERY.

>> SO -- >> Braude: ROB, IF I MAY -- >> I HAVE TO CORRECT SOMETHING HERE, THOUGH.

THE DEBATE THAT WE HAD LAST YEAR IN JUNE WAS OVER WHAT WE HAVE IN PLACE RIGHT NOW.

WHICH WE WERE FOR.

WE SUPPORTED IT.

WE SUPPORTED IT WITH THE UNDERSTANDING THAT WHEN THE STATE OF EMERGENCY ENDED, SO WOULD THE EMERGENCY PROVISIONS.

BECAUSE -- >> Braude: RESPECTFULLY -- HEY, ROB, IF I MAY, I DON'T BELIEVE YOU DID SUPPORT IT.

MY READING TODAY IS YOU SUPPORTED THE BEER AND WINE TO GO.

YOU DID NOT SUPPORT COCKTAILS TO GO AT THE TIME.

I READ A QUOTE FROM YOU IN "THE BOSTON GLOBE" LAST YEAR SAYING YOU DIDN'T SUPPORT IT.

>> WE DIDN'T SUPPORT IT THE WAY IT WAS PUT IN THE BILL ITSELF.

LET'S BE CLEAR, 64 OUNCES IS TWO AND A HALF BOTTLES OF CANADIAN WHISKEY AND SOME WATER.

AND THEN AT THE SAME TIME -- >> Braude: ROB -- >> -- SIX LITERS IS A MINI KEG OF BEER.

AND IT IS TWO BOTTLES OF WINE, WHICH IS FAR MORE BROAD THAN OTHER STATES IN THE COUNTRY THAT HAVE ALLOWED COCKTAILS TO GO.

>> Braude: ROB, AN ARGUMENT I'VE SEEN YOU MADE IN WRITING, THAT I FIND PRETTY PERSUASIVE, IS YOUR CONCERN ABOUT THE IMPACT ON MINORS AND THEIR ABILITY TO GET ALCOHOL MORE SIMPLY.

IN 30 SECONDS, AND I DO MEAN 30 SECONDS, MAKE YOUR CASE.

>> THE POINT IS THAT WITH COCKTAILS TO GO, RIGHT NOW, UNDER THE SCHEME THAT WE HAVE, SECTION 12 LICENSES, WHO ARE DELIVERING RIGHT NOW, THEY'RE DOING SO WITH THIRD-PARTY DELIVERY SERVICES.

THESE DELIVERY SERVICES ARE NOT ADEQUATELY POLICED.

SO THE CONSEQUENCE IS SECOND-PARTY SALES ARE GOING ON.

THAT MEANS SOMEBODY CAN BUY OR IS BUYING FOR PEOPLE WHO SHOULDN'T BE ABLE TO BUY.

AND WE HAVE MINORS WHO ARE WEARING A MASK AND THEY'RE SPRAY PAINTING THEIR HAIR, AND POSTING IT ON INSTAGRAM.

THE POINT IS THAT MINORS ARE GETTING ACCESS TO ALCOHOL WITH THIS, AND WE NEED TO TIGHTEN THIS ALL UP.

>> Braude: GOT IT.

SENATOR, DOES THAT NOT CONCERN YOU?

>> THE RESTAURANTS ARE BEING PUNISHED BY THE PACKAGE STORE ASSOCIATION BY THE ACTIONS OF THE THIRD-PARTY DELIVERY SERVICES.

IF ROB'S POINT IS WE NEED TO REGULATE THIRD-PARTY DELIVERY SERVICES, I'M ALL FOR THAT.

AND THEN THEY CAN STOP PRICE GOUGING LOCAL RESTAURANTS.

I HOPE THE PACKAGE ASSOCIATION WOULD WORK WITH THE LEGISLATURE ON THIS.

BUT TO PUNISH THE RESTAURANTS BECAUSE YOU HAVE A PROBLEM WITH HOW SOME THIRD-PARTY DELIVERY SERVICE IS OPERATING UNDER IS NOT APPROPRIATE.

THE RESTAURANTS HAVE BEEN GOOD ACTORS IN THIS ENTIRE PROCESS.

>> BUT THIS BILL AND THESE AMENDMENTS EXCULPATE THEM.

AND THE STORES MUST BE LICENSED WITH THE STATE TO DELIVER OR THEY MUST USE A DELIVERY SERVICE THAT IS LICENSED TO THE STATE.

IT IS A COMPLETELY DIFFERENT SET-UP FOR SECTION 12 LICENSES.

>> HONESTLY, WHAT I'M HEARING RIGHT NOW, ROB, IS A BUNCH OF BOGUS EXCUSES.

THIS IS NOT REFLECTIVE OF WHAT THE AVERAGE PACKAGE STORE OWNER FEELS IN THE COMMONWEALTH.

THEY SUPPORT COCKTAILS TO GO, AND IT IS SUPPORTING OUR LOCAL RESTAURANTS.

I HOPE THAT THE LOBBYISTS THAT ARE REPRESENTING THEM ON BEACON HILL WILL NOT ACTING NOT JUST IN THEIR BEST INTERESTS, BUT IN THE BEST INTERESTS OF ALL OF THOSE IN OUR COMMUNITY WHO NEED SUPPORT DURING THIS TIME.

>> Braude: SENATOR -- ROBERT MELLION, WE'VE GOT TO GO.

>> THANK YOU, JIM.

THANK YOU, SENATOR.

>> THANK YOU SO MUCH.

> NEXT UP, GRANITE TELECOMMUNICATIONS C.E.O.

ROB HALE IS NO STRANGER TO PHILANTHROPY.

FOR THE PAST EIGHT YEARS, HE AND HIS COMPANY HAVE HELD THE "SAVING BY SHAVING" FUNDRAISER, DONATING 5,000 BUCKS AND UP FOR EVERYONE WHO SHAVES THEIR HEAD OR CUTS OFF AT LEAST EIGHT INCHES OF HAIR, INCLUDING YOURS TRULY -- THE SHAVE, NOT THE EIGHT INCHES -- OVER THE YEARS.

THOSE EVENTS ALONE HAVE RAISED MORE THAN $42 MILLION, ALL OF WHICH HAS GONE TOWARDS CANCER RESEARCH.

THIS YEAR ROB AND HIS MOTHER JUDITH PLEDGED TO GIVE AN ADDITIONAL $50 MILLION TO THE DANA FARBER CANCER INSTITUTE.

HE AND HIS WIFE KAREN GAVE $30 MILLION TO HIS ALMA MATER, CONNECTICUT COLLEGE, FOR, AMONG OTHER THINGS, FINANCIAL AID.

AND ON FRIDAY HE SHARED MORE THAN JUST A FEW WORDS AS THE COMMENCEMENT SPEAKER AT QUINCY COLLEGE.

HE ALSO GAVE EVERY GRADUATE $1,000 EACH: $500 FOR THEM TO KEEP AND $500 TO PAY IT FORWARD.

>> Braude: ROB HALE JOINS ME NOW.

ROB, IT IS.

>> Amy:GOOD TO SEEYOU.

>> I'M DELIGHTED TO BE HERE.

THANK YOU.

>> Braude: 400 PLUS GRADUATES, THAT'S A LOT OF MONEY.

WHY DID YOU DO IT?

>> I THINK THE GRADUATES HAVEN'T HAD A CHANCE TO CELEBRATE FOR 14, 15 MONTHS, AND THEY WORKED THEIR TAILS OFF TO BE HERE.

THEY DESIRE A CHANCE TO CELEBRATE, AND WE WANTED TO FOCUS PART OF THE GIFT TO THOSE KIDS.

THEY DESERVE IT.

SECONDLY, WE GAVE A PART OF THE GIFT TO THE KIDS TO SHARE, AND THE DWIFT GIFT OF SHARING TO ME, KAREN AND I ARE VERY FORTUNATE TO BE ABLE TO GIVE, AND EVERY TIME WE DO, IT FEELS LIKE THE PRIMARY RECIPIENT OF THE GIFT IS ME.

IT IS A GREAT FEELING.

IF WE CAN CHARACTERIZE GIVING AND SHARING AND THESE YOUNGSTERS' LIVES, ALL THE BETTER.

>> Braude: CAN YOU DESCRIBE THE MOMENT -- BECAUSE NOBODY KNEW THIS WAS HAPPENING, AT LEAST THE KIDS DIDN'T KNOW -- CAN YOU DESCRIBE THE MOMENT WHEN YOU ANNOUNCED IT?

>> I WOULDN'T SAY PANDIMONIUM, BUT NOT FAR FROM IT.

THERE WAS A EUPHORIA.

THERE WAS A LOT OF SCREAMING AND HOOTING AND HOLLERING AND A LOT OF CLAPPING.

FOR ME, A MOMENT OF JOY.

IT WAS A LOT OF POSITIVE ENERGY, AND IT WAS A DELIGHT TO BE THERE.

>> Braude: ANY OF THE KIDS TALK TO YOU AFTERWARDS?

>> MOST OF THEM.

>> Braude: AND WHAT DID THEY SAY TO YOU?

>> THERE WAS A MIX OF EMOTIONS.

SOME WERE TEARFUL.

SOME WERE JOYFUL.

MANY TOLD ME HOW THEY INTENDED TO GIVE THE $500 GIFT THAT WAS INTENDED TO BE SHARED.

A FEW WERE SHY, BUT FOR THE MOST PART IT WAS ALL POSITIVE AND AN AWFUL LOT OF THANKS.

>> Braude: COULD YOU SHARE A COUPLE OF THE EXAMPLES OF WHAT KIDS TOLD YOU THEY WERE GOING TO DO WITH THE $500 THAT YOU WANTED THEM TO GIFT TO OTHER PEOPLE?

>> SURE.

SOME OF THE ONES THAT WILL STICK OUT IN MY MIND FOREVER INCLUDED A SINGLE MOM OF FIVE.

SHE GAVE $100 TO EACH OF HER KIDS.

AND THEN WE EMBRACED AND HUGGED, AND IT WAS VERY EMOTIONAL FOR BOTH OF US.

ONE OF THE KIDS WHO HAD JUST GRADUATED FROM THE BIOTECH TRAINING PROGRAM, WANTS TO GIVE IT BACK TO THE SCHOOL ITSELF BECAUSE THE SCHOOL GAVE HIM A PLATFORM TO LEARN AND PROSPER.

ONE OF THE KIDS, AS I MENTIONED IN MY TALK, I WAS A BIG BROTHER/LITTLE BROTHER, AND HE SAID HE WAS PART OF BIG BROTHER AND WANTED TO GIVE IT TO THE BIG BROTHER PROGRAM.

ALL VERY WORTHY, AND I WAS SO HAPPY TO HELP FACILITATE.

>> Braude: ROB, WHAT DID YOU MEAN A MINUTE AGO WHEN YOU SAID SOMETHING LIKE IT DID AS MUCH FOR ME AS IT DID FOR THEM?

WHAT DOES IT DO FOR YOU AND YOUR WIFE AND YOUR MOTHER TO DO THESE KINDS OF THINGS?

>> I'D SAY IT GENUINELY, THAT WHEN WE ARE SHARE, TO ME MORE OFTEN THAN NOT IT FEELS LIKE THE FOREMOST RECIPIENT OF THE JOY IS US.

SO WHEN WE TALK ABOUT CANCER RESEARCH AT DANE DANA FARBER, OUR GOAL IS TO ERADICATE THIS DISEASE, CANCER, AND SO A FAMILY WON'T HAVE TO FEEL THE PAIN WE DID, AND WHEN WE DO, IT WILL BE A EUPHORIC FEELING.

OR WHEN KIDS GO TO CONNECTICUT COLLEGE ON FINANCIAL AID, AND THEY GRADUATE BETTER, BRIGHTER, MORE GIFTED STUDENTS, AND THEY MAY NOT HAVE BEEN ABLE TO DO THAT WITHOUT FINANCIAL AID, IT IS A PRETTY POSITIVE FEELING.

>> Braude: I WANT YOU AT MY COMMENCEMENT.

>> I HAVE TO ADMIT, I LOVED IT.

I LOVED IT.

>> Braude: GO AHEAD.

>> I'LL DO IT AGAIN.

I LOVED IT.

FOR THE RIGHT SCHOOL, TO BE HONEST.

>> Braude: BY THE WAY, TO BE CLEAR HERE, AND WE ONLY HAVE A MINUTE LEFT, I WAS RIGHT WHEN I SAID THE ADMINISTRATION, WHEN THEY INVITED YOU TO GIVE THE COMMENCEMENT ADDRESS, THEY DIDN'T KNOW THEY WERE GOING TO GIVE A GRAND TO EACH OF THE KIDS, RIGHT?

>> NO, NO.

THEY INVITED ME THREE OR FOUR MONTHS AGO.

AND I WAS PREPARING, ONE OF THE TENANTS TENANTS TENENTS OF MY DISCUSSION WAS SHARING AND GIVING.

AND SO I CALLED THE PRESIDENT OF THE COLLEGE AND SAID, IS IT OKAY IF WE DO THIS?

AND HE WAS PRETTY SUPPORTIVE.

>> Braude: THANKS FOR DOING IT, AND IT IS GOOD TO SEE YOU AGAIN.

>> THANKS FOR HAVING ME ON THE SHOW.

>>> THAT'S IT FOR TONIGHT, BUT COME BACK TOMORROW.

I'LL BE JOINED BY REBECCA OSTRIKER AND PATRICIA WEN, TWO OF THE JOURNALISTS BEHIND THE NEW "BOSTON GLOBE" SPOTLIGHT REPORT THAT LAYS OUT WHAT THEY CALL THE FAILURE OF COMMAND, FROM THE GOVERNOR ON DOWN, THAT LED TO THE COVID OUTBREAK THAT KILLED 76 VETERANS AT THE HOLYOKE SOLDIERS' HOME LAST YEAR.

PLUS, A LOOK AT THE MENTAL HEALTH TOLL THE LAST YEAR HAS AKEN ON BLACK AMERICANS, FROM THE MURDER OF GEORGE FLOYD TO THE DISPROPORTIONATE PAIN FROM THE PANDEMIC.

THAT AND MORE TOMORROW AT 7:00.

THANKS FOR WATCHING AND PLEASE STAY SAFE.

Captioned by Media Access Group at WGBH access.wgbh.org