>> O'Connell: TONIGHT ON "GREATER BOSTON," I'M SUE O'CONNELL, IN FOR JIM BRAUDE, AND I'M JOINED BY TO TWO CHILD MENTAL HEALTH SPECIALISTS, ON HOW TO TALK TO OUR CHILDREN ABOUT SCHOOL SHOOTINGS AND OTHER DANGERS THEY MAY WORRY ABOUT.

THEN, THE FIRST LADY OF ICELAND ON HER NEW BOOK: "SECRETS OF THE SPRAKKAR," ALL ABOUT HOW HER NATION PRIORITIZES WOMEN, AND WHAT LESSONS WE MIGHT BE ABLE TO LEARN FROM THEIR EXAMPLE.

>> O'Connell: WE'VE TALKED A LOT ABOUT THE PHYSICAL TOLL OF THE MASSACRE AT ROBB ELEMENTARY IN UVALDE, TEXAS.

THE HORRIFIC DEATHS OF 19 YOUNG KIDS, THE TWO TEACHERS WHO REPORTEDLY SACRIFICED THEMSELVES TRYING TO SAVE THEIR STUDENTS, AND THE MANY OTHERS WHO WERE PHYSICALLY INJURED.

BUT THERE IS ALSO THE EMOTIONAL TOLL, FOR THE KIDS WHO WITNESSED THE SHOOTING AND LOST FRIENDS AND CLASSMATES, AND THE MILLIONS OF OTHER KIDS ACROSS THE COUNTRY TRYING TO PROCESS WHAT'S HAPPENED ONCE AGAIN.

I'M JOINED BY DR. DAN DICKSTEIN, ASSOCIATE CHIEF AND DIRECTOR OF RESEARCH OF THE DIVISION OF CHILD AND ADOLESCENT PSYCHIATRY AT McLEAN HOSPITAL; AND DR. GENE BERESIN, EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR OF THE M.G.H.

CLAY CENTER FOR YOUNG HEALTHY MINDS.

WELCOME TO BOTH OF YOU, I WANT TO START WITH YOU FIRST.

AND JUST ASK WHAT SHOULD PARENTS NOW, PARENTS THAT WEREN'T DIRECTLY INVOLVED WITH THIS SHOOTING, HOW SHOULD THEY BE TALKING TO THEIR TEENS AND THEIR CHILDREN ABOUT THE SHOOTING NOW?

>> I THINK IT'S AN IMPORTANT QUESTION, AN EASY QUESTION, A QUESTION I ASKED MY OWN FAMILY, I HAVE A 13 AND A 15 YEAR OLD.

I THINK EXACTLY AS YOU SAID, THE BIGGEST DESIRE IN FOR MANY PEOPLE MAY BE TO NOT TALK ABOUT IT, BUT I THINK THAT'S REALLY NOT THE WAY TO GO.

A PARENT'S BIGGEST GIFT TO THEIR CHILD IS TO CREATE A SAFE SPACE WHERE KIDS CAN TALK ABOUT ANY OF THE THINGS THAT ARE ON THEIR MINDS, FROM GOOD STUFF, HORRIBLE STUFF.

AND TO ASK IT IN A WAY THAT'S NOT JUST A ONE WORD POSSIBILITY.

YOU KNOW, WHAT DO YOU THINK ABOUT THIS.

WHAT HAVE YOU HEARD ABOUT THIS.

TO REALLY GENERATE THE DISCUSSION.

ON THE OTHER HAND I THINK IT'S REALLY IMPORTANT THAT PARENTS AND KIDS DON'T JUST TOTALLY DWELL ON THIS AND THEY NEED TO TAKE BREAKS FROM THE MEDIA.

THEY NEED TO BE ABLE TO MOVE FORWARD WITH JOBS AND GOING TO SCHOOL.

>> DR. BERESIN, I OFTEN HAVE CONVERSATIONS, I'M A PARENT MYSELF, BUT HAVE CONVERSATIONS WITH OTHER PARENTS WHEN THERE IS A DIFFICULT TOPIC IN THE NEWS AND THERE ALWAYS IS, THIS IS PARTICULARLY HARD HITTING AND DEVASTATING AND IT ALSO INVOLVES CHILDREN IN SCHOOLS BUT WHETHER IT IS ABOUT MARRIAGE EQUALITY OR TRANSGENDER ISSUES OR THE POLITICAL LANDSCAPE AND PARENTS WILL SAY IT'S REALLY HARD TO HAVE THOSE CONVERSATIONS WITH MY KIDS.

AND I ALWAYS SAY WELL IF ARE YOU RELIGIOUS, YOU KNOW, YOU ARE TALKING ABOUT PASSOVER ON A REGULAR BASIS.

AND THAT'S A DIFFICULT CONVERSATION.

OR YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT THE CRUCIFIXION OF JESUS CHRIST IF YOU ARE CHRISTIAN, THAT IS A DIFFICULT CONVERSATION.

SO THERE ARE PATHS TO HAVE DIFFICULT CONVERSATIONS IN AN AGE APPROPRIATE WAY.

WHERE CAN PARENTS FIND RESOURCES TO BE ABLE TO DO THAT THOUGH.

BECAUSE WE OFTEN FEEL LIKE WE'RE WAY OUT OF OUR DEPTH.

>> WELL, THE PLAY CENTER HAS RESOURCES.

ONE OF THE THINGS THAT WE TRY TO FOCUS ON AND WE HAVE PLENTY OF BLOCS AND PODCASTS ABOUT THIS.

IN FACT WE HAVE A WHOLE PAGE DEVOTED TO RESOURCES FOR PARENTSES.

SADLY THERE HAVE BEEN TOO MANY MASS SHOOTINGS.

BUT ONE OF THE, SOME OF THE MAIN POINTS TO ECHO A LITTLE BIT ABOUT WHAT DAN SAID, NUMBER ONE, SOCIAL SUPPORTS ARE INCREDIBLY IMPORTANT.

SO I THINK IT'S SUPER IMPORTANT FOR PARENTS TO, AND CAREGIVERS OF ALL SORTS WHETHER YOU ARE A COACH OR TEACHER OR CLERGY TO BE TALKING WITH EACH OTHER.

WE'RE PACK ANIMALS, WE HUMANS.

WE NEED EACH OTHER AND WE NEED SOCIAL SUPPORT.

WE ALSO NEED TO HELP EACH OTHER CONTROL OUR OWN ANXIETY.

BECAUSE ALL THE RESEARCH SHOWS THAT PARENT KBS MOST EFFECTIVE TALKING WITH THEIR KIDS WHEN THEIR ANXIETY IS IN CHECK IT IS KIND OF LIKE WHEN THE FLIGHT ATTENDANT SAYS IF THE PRESSURE GOES DOWN, PUT THE OXYGEN MASK ON YOURSELF FIRST AND THEN HELP THE PERSON NEXT TO YOU.

SO HOW CAN WE HELP EACH OTHER CONTROL OUR ANXIETY AND THERE ARE PLENTY OF WAYS WHETHER ST MEDITATION OR YOGA OR LISTENING TO MUSIC.

TALKING WITH EACH OTHER IS A GREAT WAY OF DOING IT.

GETTING IDEAS FROM OTHER PARENTS ABOUT HOW TO TALK TO, YOU KNOW, THERE SAY DIFFERENCE, ANOTHER POINT THAT DAN MADE WHICH VL IMPORTANT, IS WE TALK TO SCHOOL AGED KIDS DIFFERENTLY THAN WE TALK TO ADOLESCENTS.

WE HAVE TO BE THINKING DEVELOPMENTALLY.

I MEAN I CAN GO INTO THE DETAILS, IF YOU WANT BUT I THINK THAT IT IS SUPER IMPORTANT TO KIND OF KNOW HOW KIDS AGE 6 THROUGH 12 THINK AND BEHAVE AND WHAT THEIR NEEDS ARE.

AND THE DIFFERENCES BETWEEN THOSE WHO ARE SAY 14 TO 18.

AND WE THE CONVERSATIONS, A DEVELOPMENTAL LEVEL OF THE CHILD.

>> DR. DICKSTEIN THE OTHER THING YOU POINTED OUT TOO IS ALSO JUST THE SAT RAISE OF THE NEWS STORIES IN THE MEDIA.

AND IT IS ALWAYS BEEN THE CASE BUT NOW WITH SOCIAL MEDIA, WITH KIDS SPENDING SO MUCH SCREEN TIME WHERE IT IS NOT JUST SCREEN TIME ANY MORE, ST ALSO THEIR SCHOOL BOOKS, THEIR CLASS WORK T IS HOW THEY STAY CONNECTED TO THEIR FRIENDS.

AND IT IS ALMOST IMPOSSIBLE FOR THEM TO AVOID IT.

HOW CAN PARENTS MANAGE WHAT THEIR KIDS ARE SEEING ONLINE WHEN IT COMES TO ESPECIALLY AROUND THIS HORRIFIC SHOOTING, BUT ALSO SOME OF THE OTHER NEWS THAT JUST NOW GETS DELIVERED TO THEM WHERE, YOU KNOW, I WOULD, WHEN I WAS A KID I WOULD HAVE TO TURN ON THE TV OR PICK UP A NEWSPAPER TO FIND IT BUT IT IS ACTUALLY BEING THRURS AT THEM.

>> THAT SAY GREAT QUESTION.

AGAIN I THINK WE HAVE NEVER HAD SO MUCH POWER AT OUR FINGER TIPS TO LEARN ABOUT PLACES, EVENTS ALL OVER THE WORLD.

HONESTLY, I THIF THE BIGGEST ADVICE IN MY HOUSE IS TAKE A BREAK.

SCREENS CAN BE TURNED OFF.

IT MAY SOUND STRANGE BUT PHONES CAN ACTUALLY BE PUT DOWN, THEY CAN BE PUT OUT OF YOUR POCKET.

IT DOESN'T MEAN YOU HAVE TO DOUBLE GENERATE CONVERSATIONS BUT AT LEAST NOT BE GLUED TO THE MEDIA.

I ALSO THINK INSTEAD OF FOCUSING ON THE CONTROL OF A PARENT, I THINK THE BIGGEST CONTROL IS A PARENTS CONTROLLING THEIR EMOTIONS AND PARENTS CONTROLLING SOME WAYS THE FLOW OF THINGS, THINKING ABOUT HOW DO I MAKE TIME TO TALK, TO SHARE WHAT IS GOING ON WITH ME, IN A DEVELOPPALLY ROLE APPROPRIATE WAY TO MOD THEAL FOR KIDS ABOUT SHARING WHAT IS APPROPRIATE.

I GUESS I WOULD ALSO SAY THAT THE DOCTOR SAID DEVELOPMENT IS-- THIS IS NOT A ONE AND DONE THING, THIS SAY CONVERSATION THAT MAY HAPPEN NOW OR IT MAY COME UP FOR A CHILD IN ANOTHER COUPLE OF WEEKS.

I WISH THIS WAS THE ONLY SORT OF TRAGEDY GOING ON BUT UNFORTUNATELY, YOU KNOW, A COUPLE OF DAYS BEFORE THIS THERE WAS ANOTHER SHOOTING.

A COUPLE OF DAYS BEFORE THIS, THERE ARE WAS ANOTHER SHOOTING.

THERE ARE ALL THESE EVENTS THAT HAPPEN, UNFORTUNATELY.

THE QUESTION IS CAN PARENTS MAKE REGULAR TIME TO CHECK IN WITH THEIR KIDS.

>> DR. BERESIN, I WANT TO PLAY OFF THAT POINT A BIT.

THIS IS A PARTICULAR AMERICAN TRAGEDY BUT THERE IS TRAGEDY ALL THE TIME.

AND I THINK EACH OF OUR PARENTS HAVE PROBABLY LIVED TH THINGS.

MY PARENTS WERE BORN, YOU KNOW N1918 AND 1920 AND LIVED THROUGH THE DEPRESSION AND ALL SORTS OF THINGS AND TELL STORIES AND I WOULD BE LIKE THAT IS FUNNY YOU HAD TO PICK UP COAL BECAUSE YOU DIDN'T HAVE ENOUGH HEAT.

AND WE OFTEN TALK ABOUT THE RESILIENCE OF KIDS AND RESILIENCE OF CHILDREN, WHICH I THINK SOMETIMES NOW WE LOOK AT THAT AND SAY WELL, IT WASN'T RESILIENCE T WAS VARYING HOW THEY VELT AND IT-- BURYING HOW THEY FELT AND IT WASN'T ALLOWING THEM SPACE TO BREATHE OR GROW.

I THINK SOME PARENTS NOW HAVEN'T HAD AS MUCH HARDSHIP OR BEEN AWARE OF THE TRAGEDY THAT MANY HAVE GONE THROUGH.

SO THEY'RE ALSO DEALING WITH THIS FOR THE FIRST TIME THEMSELVES.

HOW DO YOU MODERATE ALL THAT WITH YOUR KIDS.

HOW DO YOU TAKE THE ATTITUDE THAT BAD THINGS ARE GOING TO HAPPEN.

WE'RE GOING TO TRY AND KEEP YOU SAFE.

BUT HERE'S WHAT PE NEED TO DO WHEN THINGS GO WRONG.

>> TERRIFIC QUESTION.

SO ONE OF THE THINGS THAT I THINK WE DON'T DO THAT WE COULD BE DOING AND SHOULD BE DOING IS HAVING CONVERSATIONS STARTING WITH PRESCHOOL KIDS AND CONTINUING THE CONVERSATION BUT AS DAN WAS SAYING NOT HAVING FAMILY MEETINGS.

THE LAST THING A KID WANTS TO DO IS HAVE A FAMILY MEETING.

YOU GET THE EYE ROLL AND THEY WILL SHUT DOWN.

BUT HAVING FREQUENT CONVERSATIONS, IF YOU START PRESCHOOL AND IT BECOMES PART OF THE FABRIC OF YOUR FAMILY, TALK WITH EACH OTHER ABOUT HOW WE DOING?

HAVE YOU HEARD ABOUT X, Y AND Z.

YOU KNOW, IT'S SUPER IMPORTANT AND IT BECOME, AND THEN WE'RE LIKELY TO HAVE THE KIDS COME TO US OR THE TEENAGERS COME TO US AND ASK US, NOW THE SECOND THING YOU MENTIONED IS ADVERSITY, WE HAVE ALL BEEN THROUGH ADD MERES-- ADVERSITY OF ONE KIND OR ANOTHER.

MY MOM WAS BORN IN 1916.

AND KIDS LOVE FAMILY STORIES.

THEY LOVE NARRATIVES.

AND SO WHEN YOU HAVE A BAD TIME ONE OF THE THINGS THAT CAN BE PART OF A CONVERSATION IS HOW DO WE GET THROUGH THIS.

HOW CAN WE MANAGE THIS.

OF COURSE IT WILL BE DIFFERENT.

YOU ARE NOT GOING TO ASK A PRESCHOOLER BUT SCHOOL AGED KIDS AND THEY LOVE TO HEAR FAMILY STORIES.

SO MY KIDS USED TO LOVE TO HEAR MY MOM TALK ABOUT THE GREAT DEPRESSION, AND WHEN SHE PLAYED THE PIANO BECAUSE SHE WAS A CONCERT PIANIST IN THE DEPARTMENT STORES FOR PENNIES.

AND SHE LOVED ONE PARTICULAR DECKSTEIN, THEY SAY TELL US ABOUT THE PIANO, TELL US ABOUT THE DEPRESSION, SO FAMILY NARRATIVES.

AND YOU CAN SAY REMEMBER WHEN THE HURRICANE HIT AND THE HOUSE GOT FLOODED.

REMEMBER WHEN A TREE FELL ON THE HOUSE.

THERE ARE NUMEROUS NARRATIVES AND THEY ARE USED IN EVERY SPIRITUAL TRADITION.

IF YOU THINK ABOUT IT, WHETHER IT IS A TARA OR-- TORA OR KORAN OR THE BIBLE T IS THE NARRATIVES THAT ACTUALLY TELL THE STORY, AND TALKING ABOUT HOW YOU WOULD MANAGE THOSE SITUATIONS SO I WOULD APPLY THAT SAME KIND OF PRINCIPLE TO ALL OF OUR FAMILIES.

AND USE THE NARRATIVE AND HOW WE'VE GOTTEN THROUGH ADVERSITY IN THE PAST.

AND ASK FOR THEIR ADVICE.

WHAT WOULD YOU DO?

WHAT SHOULD WE DO?

LET THEM FEEL THAT THEY CAN MAKE A CONTRIBUTION TO THE CONVERSATION.

>> O'Connell: WE'RE ALSO TALKING ABOUT THE SUPPORTS, THE CONSTITUTIONAL SUPPORT THAT WE'RE JUST ASSUMING IS THERE AND WE'RE ALSO TALKING AT A TIME WHERE KIDS AND ADOLESCENTS AND TEENS ARE IN CRISIS MORE OFTEN AND IN GREATSER PROPORTIONS THAN THEY HAVE BEEN IN THE PAST T SEEMS.

WE DNTD HAVE THE SUPPORT NETWORKS AND INN MANY OF THE PUBLIC SCHOOL, THE GUIDANCE COUNSELORS, THE NURSES.

WE DON'T HAVE THEM, MANY KIDS HAVE NOT BEEN IN SCHOOL DUE TO COVID AND OTHER REASONS.

WE'VE GOT KIDS DEALING WITH GREAT LOSS FROM THE MILLION AMERICANS WHO HAVE DIED DUE TO COVID RELATED ILLNESS, OBVIOUSLY THE RAISE RECKONING, THE IMAGES GOING THROUGH, FINALLY DEALING WITH THOSE THINGS.

ITS SEA A LOT FOR THIS GENERATION COMING UP.

AND YOU KNOW, AS WE KNOW AND I KNOW THAT YOU KNOW BETTER THAN I, WE ARE URGING PEOPLE TO GET HELP IF THEY NEED IT FOR THEIR TEENS BUT I HAVE YOU KNOW FRIENDS WHO ARE, DON'T WANT TO GO TO THE EMERGENCY ROOM WITH THEIR KIDS BECAUSE THERE IS NO BEDS AND THEY DON'T WANT TO HAVE TO BOARD THERE FOR THREE TO FOUR WEEKS WAITING FOR A BED.

WHAT IS A PARENT TO DO REALLY TO NAVIGATE ALL THIS TO GET THE KIND OF SUPPORT THEY NEED FOR THEIR CHILD OR THEIR TEEN WHEN THEY ARE IN DISTRESS?

>> THAT IS A FABULOUS QUESTION.

UNDOUBTEDLY THIS IS A TOUGH TIME.

IN OACT THE AMERICAN ACADEMY OF-- AMERICAN ACADEMY OF PEDIATRICS AND CHILDREN HOSPITAL ASSOCIATION OF AMERICA ISSUED A JOINT STATEMENT, A RARE JOINT STATEMENT TALKING ABOUT THE CRISIS IN THE MENTAL HEALTH, THE SURGEON GENERAL ISSUED A REPORT IN DECEMBER TALKING ABOUT ISSUES OF YOUTH MENTAL HEALTH.

SO THE GOOD NEWS IS THAT TIMELY THERE IS A FOCUS ON YOUTH MENTAL HEALTH.

THE CHALLENGE IS TRYING TO FIGURE OUT WAYS TO GROW A SYSTEM, TO FIX A SYSTEM THAT REALLY IS AN ADD HOCH SYSTEM, DOESN'T HAPPEN OVERNIGHT.

I DO HOPE THAT THIS CONTINUED ATTENTION NOT JUST A ONE NEWS STORY THING AND THEN WE MOVE FORWARD.

I HOPE PEOPLE WILL BE CREATIVE, WILL USE SOME RESOURCES AND ADDRESS THINGS.

BUT I THINK THAT WHAT A PARENT IS TO DO NOW WHILE YOU ARE WAITING FOR THE SYSTEM, I THINK YOU KNOW, HELP IS NOT JUST NECESSARILY FROM A DOCTOR.

A PSYCHIATRIST, PSYCHOLOGIST OR SOCIAL WORKER.

HELP CAN BE FROM PEERS, HELP CAN BE FROM A COACH, HELP CAN BE FROM A SCHOOL, FROM ANOTHER PARENT, FROM A FAKE LEADER, IT CAN BE, THERE ARE DEFINITELY LOTS OF THINGS ON THE INTERNET OUT THERE.

SOME GOOD, SOME NOT SO GOOD.

I THINK PROBABLY THE BIGGEST THING THAT PEOPLE CAN DO IS TAKING CARE OF THEMSELVES, ROUTINE IS IMPORTANT.

SO THE ROUTINE OF TRYING TO GET RECOGNIZE SLEEP, TRYING TO GET REGULAR EXERCISE, TRYING TO GO TO SCHOOL OR DO SOCIAL THINGS IN A COVID SAFE WAY TO MAKE CONNECTION, ALL THOSE THINGS HAVE BEEN SHOWN TO IMPROVE MENTAL HEALTH AND THEN I THINK AS THE DOCTOR SAID THESE ARE THINGS THAT NEED TO BE HABITS.

WE'RE FOCUSING ON THE CRISIS BUT IN SOME WAYS PART OF THE WAY WE GET OUT OF A CRISIS IS FOCUS ON THE ROUTINE AND THE ROUTINE, FAMILY DISCUSSION, THE ROUTINE CHECKING IN.

INSTEAD OF JUST THINKING ABOUT THE HAWAIIS AND THE LOW LOWS.

IT IS A MATTER OF THINK BEING EACH DAY WHAT ARE WE DOING AS A FAMILY, AS A COMMUNITY, AS A SOCIETY, AS A NEIGHBORHOOD TO TRY TO HELP ONE ANOTHER.

>> AS WE WRAP UP HERE, I'M WONDERING ALSO THERE IS GOING TO BE A SET OF KIDS GOING TO SCHOOL WHO ARE NOT GOING TO BE SUPERANXIOUS BUT ARE GOING TO BE NERVOUS.

THERE'S ALWAYS BEEN THE KIDS DURING, WHEN WE WERE HIDING UNDER OUR DESK FROM RUSSIAN ATTACK THERE WERE A SUBSET THAT WERE REALLY NERVOUS ABOUT THAT.

AND THERE ARE GOING TO BE KIDS WHO ARE NERVOUS ABOUT THE DRILLS THEY GO THROUGH AT SCHOOL.

THEY ARE GOING TO BE NERVOUS NO MATTER WHAT THEIR PARENTS DO.

IS THE ADVICE FOR THOSE KIDS IN GENERAL TO GIVE THEM SOMETHING TO DO TO REINFORCE THE SAFETY THAT THEY ARE IN BUT THAT THESE TERRIBLE DRILL THES HAVE TO GO THROUGH ARE TO KEEP THEM SAFE, TO TRY AND ACCENT THE POSITIVE?

>> I THINK THAT IS SO IMPORTANT.

KIDS NEED REASSURANCE.

THEY ALSO NEED COORDINATION.

AND WHEN I SAY COORDINATION, IT IS SO IMPORTANT THAT PARENTSES AND CAREGIVERS ARE TALKING WITH EACH OTHER.

THAT THE PARENTS ARE IN TOUCH WITH THEIR TEACHERS AND THEIR COACHES AND THEIR SPIRITUAL LEADERS, THEIR COMMUNITY LEADERS, AND THAT TRYING TO CONVEY THE SAME MESSAGE OR A SIMILAR MESSAGE IS SUPER IMPORTANT.

AND WE DON'T DO ENOUGH OF THAT.

AND FOR EXAMPLE, I MEAN I AGREE THAT THE MEDIA NEEDS TO BE TURNED OFF AT TIMES OR TURNED DOWN.

TOO MUCH INFORMATION, ESPECIALLY FOR ITS SCHOOL AGED KIDS.

BUT YOU KNOW, IF THE KIDS ARE GETTING THE SAME MESSAGES AND ALLOWED TO TALK ABOUT THEIR FEELINGS AND ALLOWED TO EXPRESS THEMSELVES AND ARE VAL-- ARE LISTENED TO, THAT THEIR FEELINGS ARE VALIDATED, AND THAT THEY'RE GIVING REASSURANCE, AND ONCE WE KNOW WHAT THEY'RE WORRIED ABOUT, WE CAN ACTUALLY REASSURE THEM BETTER.

SO WHAT DR. DICKSTEIN WAS SAYING AT THE BEGINNING, ASK WHAT ARE YOUR CONCERNS WHAT ARE YOUR WORRIES IN AN OPEN-ENDED WAY.

THEY MAY BE WORRIED THAT THEIR BELOVED DOG IS GOING TO GET SHOT, YOU NEVER KNOW UNTIL YOU ASK.

AND SO ASK QUESTIONS.

VALIDATE, LISTEN, REASSURE THEM.

AND TRY TO COORDINATE WITH OTHERS IN THE COMMUNITY WHO CAN BE DOING THE SAME THING.

AND WHAT WE'VE LEARNED IS THAT WHEN KIDS HAVE PRETTY OF THE SAME KINDS OF ABILITY TO COMMUNICATE AND THE SAME MESSAGING IS GIVEN ACROSS THE DOMAINS WITHIN WHICH THEY ARE LIVING, THEY DO BETTER.

>> O'Connell: ALL RIGHT DOCTORS I APPRECIATE BOTH OF YOUR EXPERTISE AND JOINING US.

WE'LL ASSURE YOU THAT WE WILL CONTINUE HAVING THIS CONVERSATION, >> O'Connell: DR. DAN DICKSTEIN, DR. GENE BERESIN, THANKS.

THAT THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR JOIRNING ME.

>> THANKS FOR HAVING US.

>> THANK YOU.

NEXT UP, AS WOMEN'S RIGHTS IN AMERICA LOOK TO BE ON SOME SHAKY GROUND RIGHT NOW, WITH THE SUPREME COURT POISED TO OVERTURN ROE V. WADE, PERHAPS ICELAND MAY OFFER A LITTLE INSPIRATION.

THE NATION CONSISTENTLY TOPS WORLD RANKINGS IN TERMS OF THE BEST COUNTRIES TO LIVE AS A WOMAN, WHETHER YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT HEALTH, ECONOMICS OR POLITICS, AND ICELAND'S FIRST LADY HAS BEEN DIGGING DEEP INTO WHY.

HER NEW BOOK IS "SECRETS OF THE SPRAKKAR: ICELAND'S EXTRAORDINARY WOMEN AND HOW THEY ARE CHANGING THE WORLD," AND FIRST LADY ELIZA REID RECENTLY JOINED ME TO TALK ABOUT IT.

ELIZA REID ARE YOU THE FIRST LADY OF ICELAND, WE WELCOME YOU TO BOSTON, YOU HAVE A NEW BOOK OUT, THE SECRETS OF THE SPRAKKAR WHICH SAY PLURAL, I FOUND OUT, NOT A SINGULAR.

>> CORRECT.

>> THANKS TO YOU.

CAN YOU-- FIRST OF ALL FOR US, CAN YOU DEFINE WHAT A SPRAKKAR IS, AND I'M SO THRILLED YOU HAVE A WORD FOR THIS.

>> I LOVE THIS WORD TOO.

SO SPRAKKAR IS AN OLD AND VERY OBSCURE ICELANDIC WORD THAT MEANS OUTSTANDING OR EXTRAORDINARY WOMEN.

IT IS A WONDERFUL BOARD.

WE DON'T HAVE ANYTHING LIKE IT IN ENGLISH THAT DEFINES WOMEN EXCLUDELIFE-- EXCLUSIVELY IN POSITIVE TERMS.

>> O'Connell: TALK TO ME ABOUT THE BOOK ITSELF.

I FEEL LIKE I SOMETIMES NEED TO SAY THESE THINGS UP AT THE FRONT OF AN INTERVIEW.

ARE YOU NOT SAYING ICELAND IS PERFECT.

AND YOU'RE NOT SAYING ICELAND IS DONE AND EQUITY IS REACHED AND YOU COULD JUST PACK UP AND GO ENJOY EQUAL RIGHTS BETWEEN MEN, WOMEN AND EVERYONE ELSE IN ICELAND.

BUT YOU ARE SAYING THERE ARE SOME FUNDAMENTAL THINGSES THAT WE AND OTHERS MIGHT LEARN FROM ICELAND TO HELP BRING PARITY AND EQUITY TO OUR WORLD.

WHAT ARE SOME OF THOSE KEY POINT SPHS?

>> THAT'S RIGHT.

ONE OF THE KEY POINTS THAT WE HAVE DONE IN ICE LAND AS ARE YOU ABSOLUTELY RIGHT TO POINT OUT, WE'RE NOT THERE YET.

BUT AS A SOCIETY I THINK WE HAVE PASSED THE TIPPING POINT OF DEBATING WHETHER OR NOT WORKING TOWARDS GENDER EQUALITY IS SOMETHING, A WORTHY GOAL.

BUT HOW WE ARE GOING TO GET THERE.

AND OF COURSE WE DEBATE AND ARGUE THAT AND MOVE AT DIFFERENT PAITION BUT I THINK THAT FUNDAMENTAL SHIFT IS REALLY IMPORTANT.

AND THEN THERE ARE A NUMBER OF DISCOVER INITIATIVES FROM EXCELLENT PARENTAL LEAVE PROGRAMS TO SUBSIDIZED CHILD CARE BUT I'M ALSO HOPING THAT WITH THE BOOK AND WITH ALL KINDS OF INTERVIEWS I DO IN THE BOOK THAT I REALLY INSPIRE PEOPLE ON AN INDIVIDUAL LEVEL, TO SHOW THAT WE REALLY ALL CAN BE ROLE MOD ELEVATORS IN THIS.

AND IF WE KEEP ON, WHAT I CALL OUR GENDER EQUALITY OR REALLY OUR EQUITY ABILITY GLASSES OVERALL, WE CAN ALL MAKE A POSITIVE DIFFERENCE IN MAKING THIS WORLD A BETTER PLACE.

>> LET'S TALK A LITTLE BIT ABOUT YOUR JOURNEY TO FIRST LADY, YOUR JOURNEY FROM CANADA TO ICELAND.

BECAUSE IT ALSO INFORMS HOW YOU VIEW WHAT IS HAPPENING THERE AS AN IMMIGRANT, AS SOMEONE FROM THE OUTSIDE.

YOU'VE GOT SOME GREAT SAYINGS IN THE GROUP.

ICELANDIC SAYINGS ABOUT HOW YOU PERCEIVE THINGS.

AND WHAT IS IT THAT YOU NOTICE.

I LOVE THE STORY ABOUT THE BREASTFEEDING.

BECAUSE HERE IN BOSTON OUR CURRENT MAYOR, MAYOR MICHELLE WU WHEN SHE WAS A CITY COUNSELOR ACTUALLY BROUGHT HER KIDS TO A CITY COUNCIL MEETING AND WOULD YOU HAVE THOUGHT, THIS WAS YEARS AGO, EVERYTHING WAS ENDING, THAT IS THE END OF THE WORLD.

BUT YOU ALSO HAD A VERY HUMAN REACTION AT A MEETING WHEN YOU SAW SOMEONE BREASTFEEDING.

>> I DID, ABSOLUTE SLEE.

I GREW UP ON THIS SMALL TOWN JUST OUT OF ODD WA, THE CAPITOL OF CANADA.

NEVER EXPECTING WHEN I FELL IN LOVE WITH AN ICELANDER IN GRADUATED SCHOOL THAT HE WOULD ONE DAY BECOME ELECTED PRESIDENT OF THE COUNTRY.

BUT WHEN I FIRST MOVED TO THE COUNTRY ALMOST 20 YEARS AGO NOW AND I WORKED FOR A SMALL SOFTWARE STARTUP WITH A LOT OF MEN AND IN MY 20S.

AND THE WOMEN WHO CHAIRED THE BOARD ONE DAY, I WALKED PAST A MEETING AND SHE WAS THERE NURSING HER BABY WHILE SHE WAS CHAIRING THIS MEETING WITH ALL THESE GUYS IN THIS SOFTWARE INDUSTRY.

AND NOBODY CARED.

NOBODY WAS MAKING A JOKE.

OR LOOKING AWAY AWKWARDLY.

CERTAINLY NOT COMPLAINING.

AND THAT IMAGE STILL STAYS WITH ME 20 YEARS LATER, EVEN THOUGH I DIDN'T HAVE KIDS AT THE TIME AND THEY WEREN'T ON MY RADAR THAT I THOUGHT THIS IS A COMPLETELY NATURAL AND NORMAL PART OF A WORK DAY, THAN THAT IS A PRETTY GOOD THING.

>> O'Connell: ONE OF THE THINGS TOO YOU EXAMINE IS THAT, AND YOU ELUDED TO IT A LITTLE BIT IS THE SUPPORTS THAT THE GOVERNMENT HAS TO HELP FAMILIES AND ALSO THE CULTURE THAT ICELAND SORT OF HAS.

I LOVE THE PART ABOUT HOW TEENAGE PREGNANCIES DON'T HAPPEN AS OFTEN BUT IF IT HAPPENS IT IS NOT THE END OF THE WORLD.

WE'LL ALL HELP TAKE CARE OF THE BABY THERE IS JUST SORT OF THIS LET'S SUPPORT FAMILIES AND WOMEN IN EVERY WAY THAT WE POSSIBLY CAN.

BUT YOU KNOW WE'RE COMING OFF THE SORT OF ERA OF THE GIRL BOSS WHERE WE ALL KIND OF HAD TO GET TO WORK AND LEAN IN AND ACT LIKE THE GUYS AND THAT WAS OUR MODEL.

BUT IN THE BOOK YOU REALLY DO GIVE US SOME EXAMPLES OF PEOPLE, WOMEN WORKING AND DOING IN THEIR WORLD WITHOUT HAVING TO BE THE MASSIVE CORPORATE RAIDERS WHO HAVE IT ALL.

CAN YOU TELL US THE STORY OF ONE OF THEM?

>> I THINK THAT IS ONE OF THE IMPORTANT THINGS BECAUSE HOW MUCH MENTAL ENERGY AND TIME DO WE ALL SPEND THINKING ABOUT ALL THE THINGS WE ARE NOT MANAGING TO GET DONE.

BECAUSE NOBODY CAN HAVE IT ALL.

YOU KNOW, SO THAT SAY REALLY IMPORTANT MESSAGE THROUGHOUT THE BOOK AND I SPEAK FOR EXAMPLE TO A FORMER MEMBER OF PARLIAMENT WHO ALSO WAS BREASTFEEDING HER BABY IN PARLIAMENT AND WAS TALKING ABOUT THAT WORK LIFE BALANCE.

HAVE I AN ENTIRE CHAPTER ON WOMEN IN THE CORPORATE WORLD, ENTREPRENEURS WHO WORK IN VARIOUS INDUSTRIES, ALL THREE OF THOSE WOMEN THAT I SPOKE TO HAVE YOUNG CHILDREN.

ONE IS AN IMMIGRANT, SHE DOESN'T HAVE A FAMILY SUPPORT.

ONE IS A SINGLE MOTHER.

ONE HAS SPECIAL NEEDS CHILDREN AND NONE OF THEM MENTIONED THAT THEIR BIGGEST CHALLENGE IS SUCCEEDING PROFESSIONALLY WAS WITH BALANCING WORK AND HOME LIFE.

AND THAT TO ME WAS SOMETHING, YOU KNOW, REALLY REMARKABLE THAT THAT WAS NOT THE BIGGEST FACTOR FOR THEM.

>> THE CHALLENGE TOO IS YOU KNOW, IT DOESN'T SEEM TO ME THAT IT IS SUCH A HOT-BUTTON ISSUE.

THIS IDEA OF EQUITY.

AND HERE IN THE UNITED STATES OBVIOUSLY AS YOU POINT OUT, WE'RE STILL DISCUSSING IT.

WHAT WOULD BE YOUR ADVICE FOR US TO MOVE TO THAT POINT WHERE WE CAN TALK ABOUT REAL WORLD SOLUTIONS, TOOLS INSTEAD OF JUST TRYING TO ARGUE ABOUT WHETHER OR NOT IT'S WORTH HAVING.

I MEAN WE'RE STILL FIGHTING FOR EQUITABLE PAY, YOU KNOW, THE WOMEN SOCCER TEAM FINALLY WON THAT BATTLE.

AND THEY HAD TO BE THE BEST IN THE WORLD IN ORDER JUST TO GET PAID THE SAME WAY THE GUYS THAT ARE ALMOST THE WORST IN THE WORLD ARE GETTING PAID.

WHAT DO WE NEED TO DO HERE?

>> ALL RIGHT, THERE IS, IT CERTAINLY IS NOT MY PLACE TO TELL OTHER PEOPLE WHAT TO DO BUT I ABSOLUTELY WOULD ARGUE THAT WORKING TOWARDS GENDER EQUALITY AND ALL FURTHER EQUALITY IS A HUMAN RIGHTS ISSUE.

AND IF FOR SOME REASON THAT DOESN'T CONVINCE YOU, YOU CAN LOOK AT ALL OF THE STATISTICS OUT THERE THAT SHOI THAT SOCIETIES THAT ARE MORE GENDER EQUAL HAVE LONGER LIVING POPULATIONS, THEY ARE MORE PEACEFUL, THEIR PEOPLE ARE HAPPIER AND THIS IS BOTH WOMEN AND MEN BECAUSE THE ARGUMENT AS WELL IS THIS ISN'T ONE GROUCH AGAINST ANOTHER GROUP OR SOME GAIN THRAS TAKE THINGS AWAY FROM ONE GROUP, BENEFITING ANOTHER GROUP IT IS SOMETHING THAT EL GATE-- ELEVATES EVERYBODY IN SOAT.

AND LASTLY I WOULD ADD THAT EVEN IF YOU AGREE WITH ALL OF THIS AND EVEN IF YOU THINK IT IS IMPORTANT STVMENT NOT GOING TO HAPPEN BY ITSELF.

AS WE HAVE ALSO SEEN OR IT WILL HAPPEN AS AN AGONIZINGLY SLOW PACE SO THAT IS WHY WE REALLY NEED TO KEEP OUR EYES ON THE PRIZE AS IT WERE AND REALLY KEEP.

>> I WAS MOVED BY THE CHAPTER ON YOUR VISIT AS FIRST LADY OF ICELAND TO SYRIA AS PART OF THE U.N. GROUP AND THE EXCHANGES THAT YOU HAD IN THE REFUGEE CAMP IF I REMEMBER CORRECTLY.

WHAT DID THAT MEAN TO YOU AND WHAT DID YOU TAKE AWAY FROM THAT?

>> THANK YOU, YEAH T WAS ACTUALLY IN JORDAN AND SYRIAN REV GREE, IN 2017 WITH UN WOMEN AND ONE OF THE THINGS I TOOK AWAY OF COURSE, IN THE CONTEXT OF MY BOOK IS THAT THERE ARE OUTSTANDING WOMEN THROUGHOUT THE WORLD THAT WE DON'T HAVE A UNIQUE LICENSE TO THEM IN ICELAND BUT IT REMINDED ME OF HOW IMPORTANT IT WAS FOR WOMEN TO BE SEEKING-- STICKING TOGETHER, WOMEN TO BE SUPPORTING EACH OTHER AND USING EACH OTHER'S VOICES AND REALLY UNDERSTANDING THAT WE ALL HAVE SOMETHING TO SAY.

AND I BOUGHT AT THESE, IN THE REFUGEE CAMP THE WOMEN WERE SEWING ALL KINDS OF SOUVENIRS WITH THE SCRAPS OF THESE CLOTHING THAT THEY WERE MAKING FOR NEW BORN BABIES AND I BOUGHT THIS HUGE WALL HANGING THERE THAT IS THE SCALES OF JUSTICE AND IT SAYS EQUAL SIT MY RIGHT AND THAT HANGS ACTUALLY AT THE ENTRANCE TO THE PRIVATE PART OF THE RESIDENCE WHERE WE LIVE NOW TO ALWAYS REMIND ME THAT EQUALITY IS MY RIGHT AND THE RIGHT OF EVERYONE ELSE WHO LIVES HERE ON THIS EARTH.

>> O'Connell: I WANT TO MAKE A HARD TURN AND TALK ABOUT YOU WEARING GREEN.

BECAUSE I LOVE THE PART OF THE BOOK, YOU KNOW, THE-- THE SCREUTS NEE THAT YOU GET AS FIRST LADY OF ICELAND IS ONE THING, BUT AS A WOMAN, AS A PUBLIC FIGURE.

I KNOW IN TELEVISION WE GET A LOT MORE SCRUTINY THAN THE MEN DO.

THEY CAN WEAR THE SAME THING EVERY DAY AND NO ONE WILL NOTICE.

BUT IF I WEAR THE SAME JACKET THREE DAYS IN A ROW SOMEBODY WRITES ME FROM THEIR LIVING ROOM ASKING ME IF I HAVEN'T BRN TO THE DRY CLEANER, CAN YOU QUICKLY TELL THE STORY ABOUT WHY YOU NOW WEAR MORE GREEN.

>> YES, WE HAD A VISIT FROM THE PRESIDENT FIRST LADY OF INDIA AND I ALSO HAD A VERY KIND LETTER FROM A WOMAN IN ICELAND WHO SIGNED HER NAME A MASTER TAILOR.

VERY POLITE AND LOVELY LETTER THAT SAID SHE REALLY LIKED WHAT I WAS DOING BUT SHE HAD SEEN ALL THE PHOTOS AND SHE WANTED TO LET ME KNOW THAT GREEN WAS NOT MY COLOR.

IT WAS THE COLOR DRESS THAT I WORE WHEN THEY CAME IN.

SO OF COURSE A WEAR A LITTLE BIT MORE GREEN NOW AND I ALSO TRY TO WEAR A LOT OF SECOND HAND CLOTHES I BUY AT CHARITY CLOTHES TO GIVE A MESSAGE OF SUSTAINABILITY.

>> O'Connell: SO WHAT IS THE SINGULAR OF SPRAKKAR.

>> SPRAKKI.

>> YOU ARE INDEED A SPLAKKI, ALIZA REID, THE FIRST LADY OF ICELAND, WE APPRECIATE YOU JOINING US TO TALK ABOUT YOUR BOOK.

"SECRETS OF THE SPRAKKAR: ICELAND'S EXTRAORDINARY WOMEN AND HOW THEY ARE CHANGING THE WORLD."

THAT'S IT FOR TONIGHT.

COME BACK TOMORROW FOR "TALKING POLITICS."

THANKS FOR WATCHING, GOOD NIGHT.

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