>> Announcer: DONNYBROOK IS MADE POSSIBLE BY THE SUPPORT OF THE BETSY AND THOMAS PATTERSON FOUNDATION AND THE MEMBERS OF NINE PBS.

>>> WELL, THANKS FOR JOINING US FOR THIS EDITION OF DONNYBROOK.

WE HAVE A GREAT SHOW, LOTS OF TOPICS ON THIS LAST EDITION FOR THE MONTH OF MAY, AND AS A SPECIAL TREAT, ON THE SECOND HALF OF THE PROGRAM, WE'RE GOING TO TALK TO DAN ISOM, THE INTERIM PUBLIC SAFETY DIRECTOR FOR THE CITY OF ST. LOUIS, AND WE'LL BE TALKING ABOUT CRIME AND OTHER ISSUES WHEN CHIEF ICE SO MANY JOINS US.

FIRST LET'S MEET THE PANELISTS JOINING US FOR THIS DONNYBROOK, STARTING WITH THE NEWS DIRECTOR FOR THE BIG 550 KTRS AND THE COHOST OF THE JENNIFER AND WENDY SHOW.

WENDY WIESE.

ALONG WITH ONE OF OUR FOUNDERS, MR. BILL McCLELLAN FROM THE ST. LOUIS POST-DISPATCH.

ANOTHER FOUNDER FROM RAWSTORY.COM, THE RIVERFRONT TIMES, AND THE BIG 550, RAY HARTMANN.

AND FROM THE ST. LOUIS AMERICAN, ALVIN REID.

WE'RE GOING TO START WITH YOU, WENDY, AS THERE WAS VIDEO THE LIKES OF WHICH WE HAVEN'T SEEN BEFORE.

WASHINGTON AVENUE SATURDAY NIGHT, A LOT OF PEOPLE LEAVING A PARTY, AND THEY ENDED UP DANCING ON A SQUAD CAR, ST. LOUIS METROPOLITAN POLICE DEPARTMENT SQUAD CAR WITH AN OFFICER INSIDE IT.

FOR FOLKS WHO LIKE TWERKING, THIS WAS YOUR NIGHT AND IT WAS ALL CAPTURED ON VIDEO, CAME A -- IT WENT VIRAL, I GUESS YOU COULD SAY.

YOU KNOW, IT DOES SEEM KIND OF UNUSUAL WHEN YOU HAVE PEOPLE DANCING ON SQUAD CARS AND WE'LL PROBABLY POSE SOME OF THOSE QUESTIONS TO DAN ISOM WHEN HE JOINS US LATER IN THE HOUR, BUT OVERALL, YOU'RE THOUGHTS ON WHERE WE ARE IN THE CITY WHEN PEOPLE ARE DANCING ON A TOP OF POLICE CARS.

>> WELL, DANCING IS AN INTERESTING TERM BECAUSE YOU THINK OF -- I DON'T KNOW.

YOU THINK OF FUN.

YOU DON'T THINK OF PROPERTY DAMAGE, AND THE SQUAD CAR WAS CLEARLY DAMAGED.

SHERIFF VERNON BETTS SAID THAT THIS KIND OF THING WAS -- IT WAS BOUND TO HAPPEN WHEN YOU HAVE SHERIFF'S DEPUTIES PULLED OFF THE STREETS BECAUSE SOME AGREEMENT WITH FORMER MAYOR LYDA KREWSON HAD EXPIRED.

MAYOR TISHAURA JONES, IN LIGHT OF WHAT HAS HAPPENED, IS NOW PUTTING OUT SPECIAL DETAILS FROM 7:00 TO 3:00, CRIME DETAILS, AND THEN I THINK FROM 8:00 TO 4:00, THERE'S GOING TO BE A SPECIAL DETAIL.

BUT WE OBVIOUSLY NEED MORE POLICE PRESENCE.

IT'S SAD THAT THE SHERIFF SAID, YOU KNOW, THAT KIND OF THING WAS UNAVOIDABLE.

I DON'T THINK THAT DAMAGING A SQUAD CAR IS SOMETHING THAT SHOULD BE UNAVOIDABLE.

I MEAN, I THINK THAT -- JUST BECAUSE PEOPLE ARE LEAVING CLUBS ON WASHINGTON AVENUE DOESN'T MEAN THAT THEY SHOULD INCITE THIS KIND OF CHAOS.

>> AGREE, WENDY.

PEOPLE LEAVE CLUBS IN SOHO, MANHATTAN, SUNSET STRIPS AN ALL THIS DOESN'T GO, BUT ALL THIS HAS GOING ON ON WASHINGTON AVENUE FOR A LONG TIME.

MAKE IT LIKE BEALE STREET, YOU CAN'T WALK TEN YARDS WITHOUT SEEING NOT ONE POLICE OFFICER, BUT TWO OR THREE.

THE WHOLE IDEA THAT THIS IS SOMEHOW THE PRESENT ADMINISTRATION'S FAULT IS RIDICULOUS AND IT'S JUST -- YOU KNOW, TAKE CONTROL OF ST. LOUIS IN A LEGAL MANNER ON WASHINGTON AVENUE.

TO ME, THAT IS NOT THAT BIG AN ASSIGNMENT AND I JUST DON'T UNDERSTAND WHY NOW IT SEEMS LIKE PEOPLE HAVE AWOKE AND SORT OF LIKE, OH, WE'RE GOING TORE SPECIAL DETAILS AND THIS AND THAT, BUT THIS HAS BEEN GOING ON ON WASHINGTON AVENUE, THIS HAS BEEN LIKE SINCE IT BECAME AN ENTERTAINMENT DISTRICT.

SO -- >> I DON'T KNOW ABOUT THE DANCING ON THE POLICE CARS, ALVIN, BUT I THINK -- >> WAIT, CHARLIE.

NOT TO INTERRUPT YOU, BUT PEOPLE ARE DANCING ON POLICE CARS.

HOW MANY PEOPLE HAVE BEEN SHOT ON WASHINGTON AVENUE?

HOW MANY PEOPLE HAVE BEEN KILLED?

PEOPLE DRIVING UP AND DOWN THE STREET 85 MILES PER HOUR.

LAWLESSNESS HAS BEEN A PART OF WASHINGTON AVENUE FOR TWO DECADES, SO DON'T BRING ME THIS ALL CAME TO A HEAD BECAUSE SOME IDIOTS ARE DANCES ON TOP OF A POLICE CAR.

>> ACTUALLY, THE LAWLESSNESS AND THE VIOLENCE IS RELATIVELY RECENT IN DOWNTOWN ST. LOUIS, AND THIS IS FROM SOMEONE WHO HAS WORKED DOWN THERE SINCE 1988.

FIRST TWO DECADES I WORKED DOWN THERE, THERE WAS NO CRIME WHATSOEVER.

I MEAN LITERALLY, BUT RECENTLY, YOU'RE RIGHT.

IT'S BECOME KIND OF CRAZY.

>> WELL, THE PANDEMIC -- >> NOT JUST THE SHOOTINGS ON SATURDAY, BUT THERE'S ALWAYS LOT OF PEOPLE DRAG RACING AND RESIDENTS, INCLUDE LES STURMAN, SAID SOMETHING HAS TO HAPPEN-THEY HAVE TO TAKE A LOOK AT LIQUOR LICENSES, AND I DON'T BLAME THE MAYOR FOR PEOPLE TWERKING ON A POLICE CAR, BUT HER PLANS TO CUT BACK ON THE POLICE FORCE ARE NOT GOING TO HELP THE MATTER WHATSOEVER.

>> THAT'S A WHOLE OTHER ISSUE, CHARLIE.

WHAT HAPPENED DOWNTOWN, ALVIN IS RIGHT.

THIS THING HAS BEEN GOING ON FOR A WHILE AND THE POLICE JUST KIND OF SURRENDERING DOWNTOWN TO WHOEVER WANTS IT.

AND, YOU KNOW, I DON'T THINK THAT YOU CAN BLAME TISHAURA JONES AT ALL FOR THE LAWLESSNESS THAT'S BEEN GOING ON BEFORE SHE TOOK OVER.

>> OF COURSE NOT, BUT WE'RE REALLY -- >> GO AHEAD.

>> GO AHEAD, RAY.

>> I WAS JUST GOING TO SAY T I THINK IT'S INTERESTING THAT BECAUSE OF THE NATURE OF THE STORY AND THERE'S NO DOUBT THAT THE PEOPLE SHOULD HAVE BEEN PUNISHED FOR DOING IT AND STUFF, BUT TO KEEP THIS IN PERSPECTIVE, WE HAVE A CITY WITH NOT ONLY ALL THESE HOMICIDES, BUT KIDS BEING KILLED, ALL THESE THINGS THAT ARE SO MUCH SMOR INTENSE.

THIS IS BAD, THERE'S NO QUESTION ABOUT IT, AND YOU'RE RIGHT, CHARLIE, I CAN REMEMBER AS LONG AS YOU CAN, DOWNTOWN WAS SAFE.

BUT I WILL SAY THIS.

EVEN WHEN DOWNTOWN WAS THE SAFEST PART OF ST. LOUIS STATISTICALLY, NOBODY BELIEVED IT.

I REMEMBER FIGHTING THAT FIGHT IN THE EARLY YEARS OF THE RNC.

NOBODY BELIEVED IT.

BUT KEEP IN MIND, ENTERTAINMENT DISTRICTS IN GENERAL HAVE THIS KIND OF NONSENSE.

MAYBE NOT INVOLVING A POLICE CAR, BUT THIS ISN'T THE ONLY PLACE THAT PEOPLE COME OUT PARTYING AT THE END OF A NIGHT IN THE NIGHTCLUB DISTRICT ACT -- >> WELL, IT'S DIFFERENT.

I JUST CAME FROM MEMPHIS, TENNESSEE, AND I THOUGHT OF ALVIN WHEN I WAS THERE BECAUSE ALVIN TALKED ABOUT HOW THERE'S ALL THIS SECURITY THERE.

AND THERE WAS.

AND -- >> NO, I AGREE WITH THAT.

I'M NOT ARGUING -- >> PEOPLE WERE PARTYING, BUT IT WASN'T THE LAWLESSNESS, THE SPEEDING, YOU KNOW, THE SQUEALING AROUND IN YOUR CARS THAT WE HAVE LET DOWNTOWN ST. LOUIS BECOME.

>> I'M NOT -- >> I THINK IT HAS BEEN SUCCESSFUL FOR A VERY LONG TIME IN MEMPHIS, SO THEY CAN AFFORD THAT KIND OF SECURITY PROTECTION.

WE'RE NOT GOING TO GET THERE OVERNIGHT.

>> PROBABLY TRUE.

>> ALL I'M SAYING -- >> LET'S MOVE ON.

THANKS, EVERYBODY.

OUR NEXT TOPIC GOES TO BILL FOR THE FIRST COMMENT.

WE'RE GOING TO TALK ABOUT REALLY THE FOURTH MAJOR DEVELOPMENT IN ABOUT AS MANY WEEKS THAT HAS BEEN TOLD, HEY, YOU HAVE TO WAIT FOR YOUR TAX BREAKS.

WE TALKED EARLIER THIS YEAR ABOUT THE RENOVATION OF THE JESUIT LIVING QUARTERS AT GRAND AND LINDELL, AND THE TISHAURA JONES ADMINISTRATION HAS SAID, HOLD ON, YOU'RE NOT GOING TO GET YOUR TAX BREAKS IMMEDIATELY, WE'RE GOING TO NEGOTIATE.

THE SAME IS TRUE FOR A PROJECT IN THE 3600 BLOCK OF LOW CUSS AND ONE -- LOCUST, ONE CALLED THE FOUNDRY, I BELIEVE, BUT NOW THIS WEEK, THE CROWN JEWEL OF DEVELOPMENT, CORTEX IS ATTRACTING COMPANIES FROM ALL OVER THE WORLD.

MICROSOFT IS THERE, WASH-U, BOEING, FANCY RESTAURANTS.

THEY'VE ALREADY RECEIVED ABOUT $130 MILLION IN TAX BREAKS, THEY WANT MORE.

THE JONES ADMINISTRATION HAS SAID, RIGHTLY, I BELIEVE, HEY, WAIT A SECOND.

DO YOU REALLY NEED IT IF YOUR VACANCY RATE IS ONE PERCENT AND YOU'RE ALREADY DOING SO WELL?

BUT IT'S MAKING SOME PEOPLE NERVOUS THAT SHE MIGHT BE DENYING A TAX BREAK TO CORTEX.

ARE YOU NERVOUS?

>> YOU KNOW, I WANT TO GIVE THE NEW MAYOR PLENTY OF OPPORTUNITY TO SUCCEED AND I'M ROOTING FOR HER, BUT YEAH, IT DOES -- I THINK IT'S A CONCERNING THING WHEN PEOPLE HAVE MADE DEALS WITH THE CITY AND ALL OF A SUDDEN THE NEW MAYOR AND A NEW ALDERMAN ARE SAYING WAIT A MINUTE, THOSE DEALS ARE OFF.

YOU'RE GOING TO HAVE TO RENEGOTIATE.

IF I WERE AN OUT-OF-TOWN INVESTOR AND MY PEOPLE IN ST. LOUIS HAD MADE A DEAL AND SIGNED CONTRACTS AND ALL OF A SUDDEN I'M TOLD THAT, NOPE, THOSE DEALS AREN'T GOOD ANYMORE, WE'RE GOING TO HAVE TO RENEGOTIATE, I'D GO WHAT'S THE SENSE OF MAKING A DEAL?

>> WELL, BILL, I DON'T THINK THEY'RE VIOLATING ANY XAISING CONTRACTS.

IF I UNDERSTAND THIS CORRECTLY, IT'S ABOUT MORE CONTRACTS -- THEY WANT MORE TAX CREDITS ON TOP -- >> I THOUGHT THESE WERE DEALS THAT HAD ALREADY BEEN MADE THAT THE NEW ADMINISTRATION IS SAYING, NO, NO, WE'RE GOING TO RENEGOTIATE THIS.

>> FIRST OF ALL, IF THE DEALS ARE MADE AND THERE'S CONTRACTS, THE CITY IS NOT GOING TO WIN THAT ARGUMENT.

THEY'LL LOSE IMMEDIATELY IN COURT.

>> THEY'RE A WORK IN PROGRESS AS THEY SAY, NOT CONTRACTS.

>> THESE ARE DEALS THAT I THINK THAT THE POWERS THAT BE IN THE TOWN HAVE BEEN WORKING ON AN ASSUMPTION FOR DECADES, BECAUSE THEY'RE RIGHT IN THIS CASE ABOUT THE ASSUMPTIONS, WHICH IS THAT THEY CAN HAVE WHAT THEY WANT WHEN THEY WANT IT, SO THE OPTICS OF A MAYOR SAYING I'M GOING TO PUMP THE BRAKES HERE ON SOME THINGS, ABOUT FUTURE TAX INCREASES, FOLLOWING UP ON THE ONES WE'VE GOT, I THINK JUST THE FACT THAT WE'VE GOT AN ADMINISTRATION WILLING TO LOOK SOMEBODY ACROSS THE TABLE IN THE EYE AND SAY YOU DON'T JUST AUTOMATICALLY GET THIS.

>> I THOUGHT DEALS HAD ALREADY BEEN MADE, RAY.

>> WELL, I DON'T KNOW, BUT IF THEY ARE -- >> ALDERWOMAN -- WHAT?

>> THEY'VE BEEN LARGELY NEGOTIATED AND THEY HAVEN'T BEEN SIGNED, SEALED AND DELIVERED JUST YET.

>> ALDERWOMAN TEAL AND MAYOR TISHAURA JONES ARE BOTH TALKING ABOUT RENEGOTIATING.

SOUNDS LIKE THEY'RE GOING TO TRY TO INCENTIVIZE SOME DEVELOPMENT IN NORTH ST. LOUIS AND ELSEWHERE, PREVIOUSLY ECONOMIC, YOU KNOW, DETERIORATING AREAS IN OUR CITY.

THAT'S ALL THEY'RE GOING TO TRY TO DO.

YES, SHE IS -- I THINK THAT SHE IS A MASTERFUL POLITICIAN.

I THINK SHE'S JUST DOING WHAT SHE'S TRYING TO DO IN TERMS OF KEEPING HER PROMISES, HER CAMPAIGN PROMISES.

>> I THINK ULTIMATELY, ALL OF THESE -- I THINK ALL THESE PROJECTS WILL GO FORWARD.

IT MIGHT BE WITH A LITTLE LESS MONEY.

YOU KNOW, THE ADMINISTRATION CAN SAY, HEY, WE SAVED ST. LOUIS A MILLION DOLLARS.

YOU KNOW, SOMETHING LIKE THAT.

I THINK IT WILL ALL BE WORKED OUT AND I'M SURE THE MAYOR OF DENVER, IF HE COULD HAVE STEPPED IN AND TRIED TO RENEGOTIATE THE DEAL THAT SENT ARRONADO TO THE ST. LOUIS CARDINALS, HE OR SHE WOULD HAVE DONE SO AND THE PEOPLE OF DENVER WOULD HAVE APPLAUDED THAT.

I'M JOKING, BUT AT THE SAME TIME, IF YOU CAN KEEP ANOTHER MILLION DOLLARS MAYBE IN THE CITY COFFERS ON CORTEX AND 500,000 FROM THIS, 250,000 FROM THAT, IT ADDS UP.

SO I MEAN, THIS IS WHAT SHE'S SUPPOSED TO BE DOING AS THE MAYOR.

WE HAVE HAD ENOUGH RIBBON-CUTTING, SMILING MAYORS THE LAST TWO.

YOU CAN THROW HARMON IN THERE ALSO, THE LAST THREE, AND OKAY, SO I THOUGHT THIS IS WHAT A MAYOR OF A MAJOR METROPOLITAN CITY WAS SUPPOSED TO DO.

>> AND ONE OF THE THINGS -- BUT I -- >> CHARLIE, WENDY SAID THE WORDS THAT DON'T GET SAID ENOUGH HERE, THAT DO GET SAID IN CAMPAIGNS, WHICH IS NORTH ST. LOUIS.

THE IDEA, TISHAURA JONES, IT'S NOT JUST A CAMPAIGN PROMISE.

THEY'VE BEEN TALKING FOR DECADES ABOUT THE NEED TO STOP NEGLECTING NORTH ST. LOUIS AND THIS IS AT LEAST A -- >> OKAY, MAYBE -- >> SOMETHING THAT CAN HAPPEN.

>> WE GO BACK TO ALVIN REID AND NOW LET'S TALK ABOUT NEGLECTED CHESTERFIELD WHERE THE COUNTY COUNCIL HAS VOTED TO APPROVE TONS OF SUBSIDIES, PROPERTY TAX ABATEMENTS AND TAX EXCEPTIONS FOR A COMPANY CALLED GATEWAY STUDIOS.

DO YOU THINK A COMPANY MOVING TO CHESTERFIELD NEEDS TAXPAYER ASSISTANCE AND DO YOU SUPPORT THIS PROJECT?

>> OKAY, NOW, IN FULL TRANSPARENCY, THIS WILL COME BACK TO THE PLACE I LIVE, OKAY?

BUT HERE'S WHAT I'M SAYING.

THIS IS THE KIND OF INVESTMENT, OKAY -- AND I'M NOT A BIG TAX CREDIT STATEWIDE AND WE'RE GOING TO BE THE HOLLYWOOD OF THE MIDWEST.

THAT'S A PIPE DREAM.

BUT FOR CHESTERFIELD TO SAY, HEY, IF WE CAN SUBSIDIZE THIS AND IT COMES HERE, THE BENEFIT FROM THAT MIGHT BE REALLY, REALLY WAY MORE IN TAX MONEY IN THE LONG RUN THAN WHAT WE WOULD BE GETTING WITHOUT IT.

YOU KNOW, IF KIRKWOOD HAD DONE IT, I PROBABLY WOULD SUPPORT IT AND THEN WHEN SAMUEL L. JACKSON AND I ARE, YOU KNOW, GRILLING HORSE STEAKS IN THE BACKYARD, THAT'S GOOD FOR ALL OF US.

SO I CAN'T ESCHEW CHESTERFIELD FOR DOING THIS.

GRANTED, THEY AIN'T HURTING FOR MONEY, BUT I LIKE THIS KIND OF PLAY BECAUSE IT'S A BIG WIN INSTEAD OF A MARGINAL WIN AND I DON'T THINK IT WILL COST THEM ALL THAT MUCH.

>> WELL, I DON'T THINK THAT SAMUEL L. JACKSON IS COMING TO TOWN.

THIS IS MUSIC AND CONTENT PRODUCTION.

I'M NOT SURE THE STARS WILL BE HERE, BUT I'LL SAY IT'S CRAZY THAT CHESTERFIELD IS GIVING TAX INCENTIVES FOR COMPANIES TO DO BUSINESS THERE.

I THOUGHT WE WERE JUST TALKING ABOUT THE NEED FOR NORTH ST. LOUIS AND WHERE ARE THE WOKE MEMBERS OF THE COUNTY COUNCIL WHO SHOULD BE SAYING, HEY, WHY AREN'T YOU TAKING AND DIVERTING A CERTAIN PERCENTAGE OF YOUR TAX BREAKS TO PEOPLE IN NORTH COUNTY?

AND THAT'S WHAT ALDERMAN PEEL IN THE 17th WARD IS SUGGEST IS AS WELL AS THE MAYOR OF ST. LOUIS.

WE'LL GIVE YOU THE TAX BREAKS, JUST DIVERT SOME OF IT TO PEOPLE IN NORTH ST. LOUIS.

>> CHARLIE, THAT'S ALL IN THE CITY OF ST. LOUIS.

THERE IS A POOR PART OF CHESTERFIELD?

>> IN NORTH COUNTY.

IT HAS SOME VERY POOR AREAS AND -- >> I'M SORRY, I WAS POINTING MY FINGER AT CHESTERFIELD OR NOT POINTING MY FING ZPER AT CHESTERFIELD, BUT YOU'RE RIGHT, CHARLIE, THAT'S CORRECT.

>> I DON'T THINK, CHARLIE -- I DON'T THINK COMMUNITY, UNFORTUNATELY, IN A PERFECT WORLD THERE WOULD BE NO SUCH THING AS A TAX BREAKS FOR ANY COMPANY ANYTIME IN A PLACE LIKE CHESTERFIELD.

THAT'S NOT WHAT THEY WERE DESIGNED TO DO.

>> I'M SORRY TO INTERRUPT, RAY, JUST BRIEFLY.

WHEN WAS THE LAST TIME ANY OF YOU HAVE TRAVELED TO CHESTERFIELD VALLEY.

IT'S BEEN PRETTY HARD HIT BY THE PANDEMIC.

>> I GET IT.

MY POINT -- >> HONESTLY -- >> WHAT I WANT TO FINISH IS YOU CAN'T UNILATERALLY DISARM.

YOU ARE RIGHT ABOUT THE COUNTY MAYBE LOOKING AT THIS IN A DIFFERENT WAY.

YOU CAN'T BLAME CHESTERFIELD FOR NOT UNILATERALLY DISARMING IN A WAR THAT'S JUST -- CHESTERFIELD THROUGHOUT NOT ONLY MISSOURI, BUT OTHER STATES, YOU KNOW, THEY HAVE TAX -- >> THEY SEND ALL THE SCHOOL CHILDREN DOWN THE RIVER.

>> I GET IT, BUT YOU CAN'T JUST -- >> RAY, YOU CAN'T KEEP COMPLAINING ON THIS PROGRAM THAT THE SCHOOLS ARE UNDERFUNDED WHILE YOU APPROVE EVERY TAX BREAK FOR EVERY TOM, DICK AND HARRY WHO WANTS YOU.

>> CAN YOU HEAR ME?

I DON'T APPROVE OF THE CONCEPT THAT EVERY PROJECT CAN'T BE CONSIDERED AS LONG AS WEALTHY COMMUNITIES ALL OVER THIS REGION, AND MORE IMPORTANT, OTHERS, THIS IS THE PROBLEM WE'VE GOT.

>> WHAT DO YOU THINK, RAY, ABOUT RAISING THE GAS TAX?

THE GENERAL ASSEMBLY ALREADY APPROVED THAT, BUT THERE'S A GROUP THAT WANTS TO PUT IT ON THE BALLOT.

RECENTLY, YOU TALKED ABOUT THE SANCTITY OF THE VOTERS WHEN IT CAME TO EXPANDING MEDICAID IN THE STATE AND DO YOU THINK THAT IF THE VOTERS DECIDE TO PULL BACK THAT GAS TAX, AND THEY JUST MIGHT DO THAT ON THE BALLOT, THAT WE HAVE TO RESPECT THEIR OPINION?

>> NO, BECAUSE THIS ISN'T THE -- >> WELL, YES, BUT THE FACT IS, THIS ISN'T THE VOTERS DECIDING ANYTHING.

THIS IS AMERICANS FOR PROSPERITY, ONE OF THE ORIGINAL KOCH BROTHERS FUNDED -- THIS WAS THE BIG BOYS THAT PROBABLY DID MORE TO BRING ABOUT THE TEA PARTY MOVEMENT THAN ANY OTHER ORGANIZATION IN THE COUNTRY.

THIS ISN'T SOME LITTLE GROUP OF CITIZENS.

THIS IS -- THESE ARE THE FOLKS WHO FOUGHT SO HARD AGAINST MEDICAID EXPANSION, THEY WOULD HAVE DISMANTLED MEDICAID ALTOGETHER.

THESE ARE THE LIBERTARIAN -- THIS IS THE NATIONAL VERSION OF WHAT REX SINQUEFIELD DOES HERE AND IT'S A BIG, BIG GROUP WITH BIG MONEY AND IT'S TERRIBLE.

THE LEGISLATORS -- AND I'M TALKING ABOUT THE REPUBLICANS NOW -- FINALLY GOT THE GUTS TOGETHER TO PASS A REASONABLE TAX INCREASE WITHOUT A TAXPAYER MANDATE WELL WITHIN THE HANCOCK LIMITS.

THERE'S NOTHING -- AND AGAIN, IN THE PAPER, THEY GOT -- CHARLIE, ONE THING.

THE GUY WAS SAYING, WELL, YEAH, WE KNOW INFRASTRUCTURE AND ROADS -- THEY DON'T HAVE AN ANSWER.

AMERICANS FOR PROSPERITY HAVE NO ANSWER FOR HOW WE'RE GOING TO PAY FOR ROAD PROJECTS IF THIS DOESN'T HAPPEN.

>> IF I CAN JUMP IN, ALL I'M GOING TO SAY IS THAT, OKAY, IF THE PEOPLE OF THE STATE OF MISSOURI VOTED AND VOTED DOWN A GASOLINE TAX, OKAY?

I FIND IT IRONIC THAT THE LEGISLATURE -- NOW, WOULD THEY THEN STEP IN AND SAY, FORGET WHAT THE PEOPLE SAY, WE'RE DOING IT ANYWAY?

LIKE WITH MEDICAID.

>> THAT'S EXACTLY RIGHT.

>> SO I SAY LET THE PEOPLE VOTE AND LET'S SHOW THE HYPOCRISY.

>> WHAT DO YOU SAY, BILL?

>> I'M WITH ALVIN.

THE LEGISLATURE IGNORES THE WILL OF THE PEOPLE ALL THE TIME.

THEY DID IT ON PUPPY MILLS, THEY DID IT ON CONCEALED CARRY HAD BEEN A REFERENDUM, AND MEDICAID.

SO IF PEOPLE WANT TO -- IF SOMEBODY WANTS THE PEOPLE TO VOTE ON THIS, FINE, BUT THE LEGISLATURE IS NOT GOING TO NECESSARILY GO ALONG WITH THE WILL OF THE PEOPLE.

>> NOW, I WILL SAY, I'M NOT AGAINST THE GASOLINE TAX GOING UP 12.5 CENTS OVER FIVE YEARS.

IT'S ALREADY THE LOWEST IN THE NATION.

HOWEVER, THERE ARE THREE OTHER ASPECTS TO CONSIDER.

NUMBER ONE, THE STATE DOES HAVE A BILLION-DOLLAR SURPLUS.

THERE'S THAT.

THE TAX IS REGRESSIVE.

IT AFFECTS THE POOR PEOPLE WHICH WE ALL CARE ABOUT SO MUCH THE MOST.

AND WE DON'T KNOW IF THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT IS GOING TO BE SENDING US BILLION THROUGH THE INFRASTRUCTURE BILL.

I SAY, HEY, WHY NOT WAIT AND SEE.

IF THEY SEND US BILLIONS, WE MAY NOT NEED THAT 12.5 CENTS.

>> I THINK THE FACT THAT THIS CONSERVATIVE LEGISLATURE, FINALLY, A GROUNDBREAKING IDEA IN ALL THESE DECADES, THE LEGISLATURE IN CHARGE OF IMPOSING MONEY, COULD ACTUALLY PROPOSE A SMALL TAX INCREASE IS SO EARTH-MOVING SO I DON'T THINK THEY SHOULD BE PUNISHED.

AND AGAIN, THIS IS NOT SOME UPRISING THE PEOPLE.

IT'S THE -- >> BUT CHARLIE, THE WHOLE -- >> IT'S THE TEA PARTY THINK TANK DOING IT.

>> THE WHOLE IDEA OF WAITING ON THE INFRASTRUCTURE FOR, YOU KNOW, SOME KIND OF DEAL TO BE STRUCK BETWEEN PRESIDENT BIDEN AND CAPITOL HILL, IT'S LIKE WAITING TO PUT THE HOUSE FIRE OUT.

I'M JUST -- I'M NOT -- >> BUT WAIT, THEY'LL BE IN AGREEMENT AND LIKE I SAID, LET'S VOTE.

LET'S BE TRANSPARENT BECAUSE THEN THE LEGISLATURE IS GOING TO SAY WE DON'T WANT BIDEN'S MEDICAID MONEY, BUT WE'LL TAKE EVERY DOLLAR OF BIDEN'S INFRASTRUCTURE MONEY.

LET'S VOTE.

>> YOU THINK THE LEGISLATURE SHOULD NEVER PASS A TAX INCREASE FOR ANY REASON EVER?

>> I'M NOT SAYING THAT.

I'M SAYING HEY, PUT IT ON THERE.

THEN IT'S UP TO YOU, LEGISLATURE, TO NOW OVERRULE THE PEOPLE LIKE YOU HAVE SO MANY TIMES AND YOU CAN EXPLAIN WHY WE DON'T WANT THE MEDICD MONEY, BUT WE SURE WANT THE INFRASTRUCTURE MONEY.

>> I'LL GIVE YOU THAT POINT, ALVIN.

>> BILL McCLELLAN, I WANT TO ASK YOU ABOUT A REVISION THIS WEEK BY RICHARD CALLAHAN.

HE'S THE SPECIAL PROSECUTOR TO LOOK AT SPECIAL CHARGES AGAINST MARK AND PATRICIA McCLOSKEY, THE GUN WIELDING CENTRAL WEST END COUPLE.

WE KNOW ALL ABOUT THEM, DON'T WE?

HE'S DROPPED THE GUN TAMPERING CHARGE AND ADDED A SECOND DEGREE HARASSMENT CHARGE.

IT'S ALSO POSSIBLE THAT PATRICIA McCLOSKEY COULD GET CONVICTED ON AN EXHIBITING CHARGE.

BUT IT'S A LOT OF ATTENTION FOR TWO INDIVIDUALS WHO REALLY DIDN'T HURT ANYBODY AT THE END OF THE DAY AND YOU HAVE TO ADMIT, IN A CITY WITH THE CLEARANCE RATE -- WITH 262 MURDERS AND A CLEARANCE RATE OF 30%, DON'T YOU WONDER WHERE OUR PRIORITIES ARE HERE?

>> WELL, WE'RE TALKING ABOUT THE WILL OF THE PEOPLE AND I SUPPORT THAT, AND THE WILL OF THE PEOPLE IN THE CITY OF ST. LOUIS WAS TO RE-ELECT KIM GARDNER.

AND, YOU KNOW, THAT -- WHAT WE GET FOR THAT IS AN OCCASIONAL SHOW TRIAL.

YOU KNOW, WE GOT THE ERIC GREITENS SHOW TRIAL.

IT DIDN'T MAKE IT ALL THE WAY.

AND THIS.

WHEN YOU HAVE, LIKE YOU SAY, BODIES LITTERING THE CITY AND WE'RE GOING TO HAVE A BIG TRIAL AGAINST THE McCLOSKEYS, IT'S A SHOW TRIAL, IT'S ENTERTAINMENT.

I SUPPORT IT, IT SHOULD BE FUN.

I THINK CALLAHAN IS A MUCH MORE EXPERIENCED PROSECUTOR, CLEARLY, THAN KIM GARDNER OR ANYBODY KIM HAS -- MS. GARDNER HAS ON HER STAFF.

SO IF CALLAHAN THINKS THIS IS A BETTER CHARGE, YOU KNOW, DOLLARS TO DONUTS IT IS.

BUT IS THIS A SERIOUS THING?

NO.

>> IT IS A SERIOUS THING AND IT'S A TOTAL -- EVEN THOUGH KIM GARDNER PUT OUT A STATEMENT -- SHE DIDN'T SAY IT EXACTLY, BUT IT IMPLIED SHE WASN'T HAPPY -- >> OH, SHE SAID IT.

SHE SAID WE STUDIED THIS AND WE CAME UP WITH THE APPROPRIATE CHARGES.

SHE SAID THAT.

>> SHE SAID SHE CHARGED IT RIGHT, BUT THE FACT IS, THIS IS A HUGE VALIDATION FOR HER AND A HUGE REJECTION OF THE McCLOSKEY'S CENTRAL ARGUMENT, WHICH IS THIS IS SOME WITCH HUNT BY A GEORGE SOROS PROSECUTOR.

THIS IS RICHARD CALLAHAN.

COULD NOT BE MORE DIFFERENT THAN KIM GARDNER.

HE COULD HAVE COME IN AND SAID NOTHING TO SEE HERE, FOLKS.

HE ACTUALLY SAID WORKING OFF OF WHAT SHE DID, THAT THERE IS SOMETHING TO SEE HERE AND MOST DEFINITELY, HE'S A VERY SERIOUS PROSECUTOR -- >> IT'S A MISDEMEANOR CHARGE, RAY.

>> I DON'T THINK THIS IS A BIG VINDICATION OF -- IT'S A SHEE TRIAL.

>> NO, IT ISN'T.

>> DO YOU THINK THIS JUST MAKES THE WHOLE TISABY THING DISAPPEAR?

>> THIS IS NOT -- >> HE'S GOING TO COURT IN 2022.

>> YOU MAKE IT SOUND LIKE SHE'S EXONERATED FROM EVERY ACCUSATION.

>> I DIDN'T SAY ANYTHING ABOUT THIS CASE.

THIS CASE HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH TISABY.

YOU SAY NOBODY GOT HURT.

THIS IS ABOUT SOMEBODY MENACING INNOCENT BYSTANDERS.

>> LIKE THAT DOESN'T HAPPEN EVERY MINUTE OF THE DAY IN ST. LOUIS?

>> I CAN'T CHANGE MY TUNE, BUT THIS STARTED EVEN BEFORE CHARGES WERE DELIVERED, I SAID THERE'S NO -- JUST DONE EVEN CHARGE THESE YAHOOS WITH ANYTHING.

THIS IS LIKE SOME PITIFUL SOAP OPERA THAT ONLY COULD BE STAGED IN ST. LOUIS, MISSOURI.

OH MY GOSH.

>> BY THE WAY, I WILL SAY THIS -- [ ALL SPEAKING AT ONCE ] >> I WILL SAY McCLOSKEY PERSONALLY BENEFITS FROM IT.

>> OF COURSE, HE DOES.

>> BUT THAT DOESN'T MEAN THAT IT'S NOT VALID CHARGE BECAUSE IT IS.

>> WELL, ARE -- >> AND WE CAN'T HAVE PEOPLE THINKING POINT -- FIRST OF ALL, WE CAN'T PEOPLE ADDRESS THAT, BUT WE CAN'T PEOPLE SHAKING THEIR WEAPONS -- >> RAY, WE ALREADY HAVE PEOPLE DOING MORE THAN SHAKING THEIR WEAPONS.

WE HAVE PEOPLE USING THEIR WEAPONS, EVERY NIGHT, EVERY NIGHT.

>> I UNDERSTAND THAT.

I DIDN'T SAY THIS IS THE WORST CRIME IN ST. LOUIS.

OBVIOUS IT'S NOT.

>> DON'T FORGET, RAY, 30 KID KILLED IN 2019, 2020, NOT ONE PROSECUTION, AND YET WE GO AFTER THE McCLOSKEYS.

>> YOU CAN DO BOTH, ACTUALLY.

>> SHE LIKED SHE HAD NEVER EVEN HELD A GUN BEFORE.

>> EXACTLY.

LISTEN, ALL THAT OTHER STUFF IS VERY, VERY SERIOUS AND IT'S TERRIFYING AND IT'S HORRIBLE.

THE McCLOSKEYS ARE SILLY, AND ST. LOUIS HAS NO TIME FOR SILLINESS, OKAY?

THIS IS JUST SILLY.

>> THIS IS NOT A CHOICE BETWEEN PROSECUTING THEM AND PROSECUTORING MURDERERS, OKAY?

>> WELL, WE'RE PROSECUTING THEM, RAY, AND WE'RE NOT PROSECUTING A LOT OF MURDERERS.

>> THAT'S NOT TRUE.

>> IT IS TRUE.

>> 30% CLEARANCE RATE, RAY.

>> WHAT ABOUT THE CHILD WHO WAS SHOT AND THE GUY SAID IT WAS SELF-DEFENSE AND IN FEDERAL COURT, THEY HAD TO INCREASE THE TIME HE WAS GOING TO SERVE.

YOU KNOW THE CASE I'M TALKING ABOUT, RIGHT?

WHERE THE GUY SHOT THE CHILD IN THE BACKYARD.

HE WAS SHOOTING AT SOMEBODY ELSE AND THEN HE HAD TO -- HE TRIED TO ROB HIS EMPLOYER AND THE FEDS GOT HIM FOR THE ROBBERY AND ASKED FOR AN ENHANCED SENTENCE BECAUSE HE HAD ACTUALLY KILLED A CHILD.

I MEAN, THERE'S CRAZINESS GOING ON.

>> THERE'S TAKE A BREAK HERE AND COME BAB -- >> I'M JUST SAYING THE STORY HAS TO BE JUDGED ON ITS OWN MERIT.

>> THANKS FOR YOUR OPINIONS.

IN A MOMENT, WE'LL ASK FOR YOUR QUESTIONS WHEN WE TALK TO DAN ISOM, INTERIM PUBLIC SAFETY DIRECTOR FOR THE CITY OF ST. LOUIS.

THAT'S NEXT ON NEXT UP.

>> Announcer: DONNYBROOK IS MADE POSSIBLE BY THE SUPPORT OF THE BETSY AND THOMAS PATTERSON FOUNDATION AND THE MEMBERS OF NINE PBS.

>> WELL, THANK YOU VERY MUCH FOR JOINING US ON NEXT UP.

AND THIS IS WHERE WE TALK TO COMMUNITY LEADERS AND WE'RE SO GLAD THAT CHIEF DAN ISOM, ALTHOUGH NO LONGER POLICE CHIEF, I STILL CALL HIM CHIEF, NOW THE INTERIM PUBLIC SAFETY DIRECTOR FOR THE CITY OF ST. LOUIS, HAS KINDLY AGREED TO TAKE OUR QUESTIONS ON NINE PBS.

CHIEF ISOM, THANK YOU VERY MUCH FOR JOINING US.

>> THANK YOU.

GOOD TO BE HERE.

>> WELL, IN THE FIRST HALF OF THE PROGRAM, WE WERE TALKING ABOUT WASHINGTON AVENUE ON SATURDAY NIGHT AND THE DANCING ON A SQUAD CAR, AND BASICALLY IT LOOKED LIKE WE COULD USE A FEW MORE POLICE OFFICERS IN DOWNTOWN ST. LOUIS.

THE SHERIFF, VERNON BETTS, SAID HE'S GOING TO HAVE TEN GROUPS OF TWO OFFICERS PATROLLING WASHINGTON AVENUE, BUT THE MAYOR THAT IS INDICATED THAT SHE'S NOT GOING TO HIRE AS MANY POLICE OFFICERS AS HER PREDECESSOR HAD HOPED TO, AND SHE'S TAKEN ABOUT $4 MILLION FROM THE OVERTIME BUDGET TO OTHER WORTHY CAUSES.

ARE YOU CONCERNED THAT WE DON'T HAVE ENOUGH POLICE OFFICERS ON THE STREETS OF DOWNTOWN ST. LOUIS?

>> WELL, I THINK WE HAVE TO, YOU KNOW, LOOK AT WHAT'S HAPPENED IN THE PAST FOUR YEARS.

WE'VE MAINTAINED THE SAME LEVEL OF OFFICERS FOR THE LAST FOUR YEARS, SO WHAT WE HAVE NOW IS WHAT WE'VE HAD FOR THE LAST FOUR YEARS.

I THINK IN PARTICULAR FOR DOWNTOWN, CERTAINLY THE BEHAVIOR OF THE YOUNG PEOPLE IS NOT WHAT WE EXPECT WHEN YOU GO DOWNTOWN AND HAVE A GOOD TIME.

BUT UNDERSTANDING THE INCIDENT, THERE WAS A PARTY WHERE A PERFORMER WAS THERE.

THE PARTY ENDED AND LIKE WHAT HAPPENS WITH SO MANY OTHER PERFORMERS, THEY RENT OUT A SPACE TO HAVE THE AFTER-PARTY, AND SO THE AFTER-PARTY WENT INTO THIS SPACE, PROBABLY ABOUT 500 YOUNG PEOPLE IN THERE, AND THEN WHEN THE PARTY WAS SHUT DOWN, THEY ALL POURED OUT ON TO THE STREET.

UNFORTUNATELY, THEY DIDN'T JUST LEAVE, OF COURSE.

WHEN THE POLICE ARRIVED, ONE OFFICER TRIED TO CLEAR THE AREA AND, YOU KNOW, UNFORTUNATELY THERE WAS THAT BAD BEHAVIOR.

SO I THINK IF YOU TAKE THAT INCIDENT IN CONTEXT, YOU KNOW, WHETHER YOU THINK WE SHOULD HAVE MORE OR LESS POLICE, I DON'T THINK THAT WOULD HAVE CHANGED THAT PARTICULAR INCIDENT, RIGHT?

A LARGE PARTY LETS OUT, AN OFFICER HAPPENS TO BE THERE, HE TRIES TO MOVE PEOPLE OUT OF THE STREET AND, YOU KNOW, YOU GET SOME RAMBUNCTIOUS KIDS WHO DO SOMETHING THAT IS COMPLETELY INAPPROPRIATE.

I THOUGHT THE OFFICER SHOWED A LOT OF RESTRAINT IN HANDLING THE SITUATION, ESPECIALLY IN LIGHT OF CIRCUMSTANCES TODAY, BUT BACK TO YOUR PREVIOUS QUESTION, YOU KNOW, I THINK WE HAVE A LOT OF OFFICERS.

MY JOB IS TO TRY TO GET THEM TO WORK IN THE MOST EFFICIENT WAY AND I THINK THAT'S WHAT I'M TRYING TO DO IN THE FIRST, YOU KNOW, 35 DAYS THAT I'VE BEEN HERE.

>> RAY?

>> MR. ACTING COMMISSIONER, IS THAT IT?

I GUESS YOU WERE ON PUBLIC RADIO LAST WEEK, ST. LOUIS ON THE AIR, I GUESS SARAH'S SHOW, SUGGESTING THAT THE GOVERNOR SHOULD VETO THE SO-CALLED SECOND AMENDMENT PRESERVATION ACT, WHICH WOULD HAVE -- WHICH WOULD -- I DON'T KNOW IF HE'S EVEN SIGN IT YET, BUT THAT WOULD REALLY KEEP OFFICERS FROM ENFORCING GUN LAWS AND FEDERAL GUN LAWS.

WHAT DO YOU THINK THE STATE OF PLAY IS WITH REGARD TO GUNS AND ST. LOUIS AND OUR ABILITY TO HAVE CONTROL OF GUNS IN A WAY THAT MIGHT NOT BE APPROPRIATE OR ACCEPTABLE IN OTHER PARTS OF MISSOURI?

>> WELL, I THINK EVERYBODY'S WELL AWARE THAT OUR LAWS HAVE BECOME INCREASINGLY LAX IN TERMS OF GUN IN THE STATE OF MISSOURI, AND THERE'S CERTAINLY A DEBATE BETWEEN RURAL AND URBAN AREAS ON THIS ISSUE.

YOU KNOW, THE RURAL AREAS SEE CERTAINLY A BENEFIT OF HAVING FIREARMS FOR A NUMBER OF DIFFERENT REASONS, BUT IN THE URBAN AREAS, WE FEEL THAT WE NEED TO HAVE SOME MEASURE OF ACCOUNTABILITY FOR EITHER PURCHASING WEAPONS, CARRYING WEAPONS, EVEN TRAINING OF INDIVIDUALS WITH WEAPONS.

AND SO WE'RE TO A POINT NOW WHERE IT'S VERY DIFFICULT TO MANAGE WHETHER A PERSON SHOULD HAVE A GUN LEGALLY OR ILLEGALLY BECAUSE OUR LAWS IN MISSOURI ARE PRETTY LAX.

GOING EVEN FURTHER THAN THAT, THIS LEGISLATION IS SUGGESTING THAT LOCAL OFFICERS CAN'T EVEN WORK WITH FEDERAL OFFICERS WITH FEDERAL GUN CRIMES, FEDERAL GUN CHARGES.

AND GOING TO THE POINT WHERE THEY CAN EVEN BE PENALIZED FOR DOING SO.

AND SO IF YOU'RE PRO POLICE, WHICH I AM, THEN LET'S NOT TAKE TOOLS AWAY FROM OFFICERS AND PUT THEM IN A SITUATION WHERE THEY DON'T KNOW WHETHER THEY CAN ENFORCE SOMETHING OR NOT.

AND WE REALLY NEED THAT COOPERATION WITH FEDERAL LAW ENFORCEMENT, ALONG WITH OUR CIRCUIT ATTORNEY, TO MAKE SURE THAT VIOLENT CRIME GOES DOWN IN THE CITY OF ST. LOUIS.

>> ALVIN.

>> MORE SO THAN THE CURRENT MAYOR AND THE LAST MAYOR AND PROBABLY ALL 28 OF THE ALDERMEN AND THE, YOU KNOW, BOARD OF ESTIMATE AND APPORTION, YOU KNOW JEFF ROORDA BETTER THAN ANY OF THOSE PEOPLE.

DO YOU THINK YOU CAN FORGE SOME TYPE OF WORKING RELATIONSHIP WITH HIM AND HAVE YOU TALKED TO HIM SINCE YOU WERE APPOINTED TO THIS JOB?

>> NO, I HAVEN'T TALKED TO HIM SO FAR.

I'VE BEEN SO FOCUSED ON REALLY DIGGING INTO THE THREE PRIMARY ISSUES THAT I'M WORKING ON NOW, AND THAT'S CERTAINLY TRYING TO ADDRESS VIOLENT CRIME IN THE CITY OF ST. LOUIS, WHICH IN MY OPINION IS THE NUMBER ONE PRIORITY.

THE SECOND IS THE TRANSITION FROM THE MEDIUM SECURITY PRISON TO THE JAIL AND MAKING SURE THAT GOES OFF SMOOTHLY AS POSSIBLE, AND THEN TRYING TO DEAL WITH THE 911 SYSTEM THAT WE HAVE.

SO I HAVEN'T HAD EVEN TIME TO THINK ABOUT JEFF ROORDA, THE UNION K, OR ANYTHING ELSE.

I'M SO LASER FOCUSSED ON THOSE THREE THINGS, THAT HE HADN'T EVEN CROSSED MY MIND.

>> YOU HAVE ALWAYS HAD, CHIEF, AN INTEREST IN THE STRUCTURE OF POLITICAL AND OTHERWISE WHEN IT COMES TO POLICE DEPARTMENTS.

WHAT HAS BEEN HAPPENING TO THE ST. LOUIS METROPOLITAN POLICE DEPARTMENT IN TERMS -- IF YOU HAD YOUR PRIORITIES, LIKE A WISH LIST OF PRIORITIES, HOW WOULD YOU CHANGE THE STRUCTURE, THE ACTUAL STRUCTURE OF THE DEPARTMENT AND WHY?

TO WHAT END, HOPEFULLY?

>> WELL, I MEAN, I'VE ALWAYS BEEN AN ADVOCATE OF MAKING THE DEPARTMENT MORE NIMBLE IN TERMS OF THE LEADERSHIP STRUCTURE.

NOT HAVING SO MANY DIFFERENT LAYERS WITHIN THE POLICE DEPARTMENT.

I THINK IT AFFECTS COMMUNICATION AND, YOU KNOW, SINCE I'VE BEEN THERE, IT MAY SEEM SIMPLE, BUT THAT IS THE MAJOR THING THAT I'VE BEEN TRYING TO DO IS GET ALL THE CONNECTED PARTS COMMUNICATING TOGETHER ON A REGULAR BASIS, MOVING IN THE SAME DIRECTION.

STRUCTURE HAS A BIG DEAL TO DO WITH THAT.

IF YOU HAVE THE RIGHT STRUCTURE, THEN IT FACILITATES BETTER COMMUNICATION AND COOPERATION.

SO ONE OF THE THINGS THAT I'M DOING, WHICH WILL TAKE TIME, IS REALLY LOOKING AT EACH UNIT, THEIR PRODUCTIVITY, HOW THEY'RE WORKING, WHETHER OR NOT THE DATA THAT COMES OUT OF THAT ANALYSIS IS THAT THEY'RE WORKING IN THE DIRECTION THAT AT LEAST I FEEL THAT IT OUGHT TO BE GOING IN, AND SO -- AND THIS IS TO THE FIRST POINT THAT CHARLIE RAISED IS THAT I THINK WE CAN GET MORE EFFICIENCIES OUT OF OUR POLICE DEPARTMENT.

ARE WE DOING THE THINGS THAT REALLY CITIZENS WANT US TO DO WITH OUR POLICE OFFICERS?

RIGHT?

AND SO I'M DIGGING INTO THE CALLS FOR SERVICE, THE ARRESTS, THE TRAFFIC TICKETS, ALL THE THINGS THAT OFFICERS DO, TO SEE IF WE CAN RECOUP SOME OF THAT TIME TO DO WHAT I THINK IS THE MOST IMPORTANT, WHICH IS BE VISIBLE IN THE COMMUNITY.

I HEAR FROM PEOPLE TRAFFIC ENFORCEMENT IS A KEY, AND THEN, OF COURSE, VIOLENT CRIME.

NOW, THERE ARE OTHER THINGS THAT WE HAVE TO DO, I CERTAINLY DON'T MINIMIZE, YOU KNOW, PROPERTY CRIMES AND STUFF LIKE THAT, BUT I THINK VIOLENT CRIME, TRAFFIC, AND VISIBILITY ARE THE THINGS THAT I HEAR FROM CITIZENS ALL THE TIME.

SO YEAH, I'M REALLY DIGGING INTO THAT AND IT'S GOING TO TAKE SOME TIME.

>> BILL.

>> CHIEF, EVERY TIME WE HAVE A -- WE GET A NEW CHIEF, THERE'S A DEBATE ABOUT WHETHER WE SHOULD HAVE A NATIONAL SEARCH OR WHETHER WE SHOULD PROMOTE FROM WITHIN, AND WE HAVE ALWAYS PROMOTED FROM WITHIN.

I HAVE A TWO-PART QUESTION FOR YOU.

ONE IS PROBABLY A YES OR NO.

WOULD YOU RECOMMEND RETAINING CHIEF HAYDEN, AND THE SECOND IS IF WE WANTED -- IF WE WERE GOING TO GET A NEW CHIEF FOR WHATEVER REASON, DO YOU THINK THERE SHOULD BE A NATIONAL SEARCH OR PROMOTE FROM WITHIN?

>> RIGHT.

WELL, YOU KNOW K CHIEF HAYDEN IS STILL HERE, SO I DON'T THINK HE'S GOING ANYWHERE AT THIS MOMENT.

SO WE'RE WORKING WELL TOGETHER.

CHIEF HAYDEN, OF COURSE, WORKED FOR ME PREVIOUSLY WHEN I WAS CHIEF, SO WE'RE WORKING LOCKSTEP TO TRY TO GET THIS VIOLENT CRIME UNDER CONTROL AND ALL THE OTHER ISSUES THAT WE HAVE WITHIN THE POLICE DEPARTMENT.

SO WE'RE WORKING WELL AND THAT'S GOING TO CONTINUE UNTIL, YOU KNOW, THERE'S A TIME WHERE HE DECIDED THAT HE WANTS TO STEP AWAY.

SO THE SECOND QUESTION IS, IS THAT ALTHOUGH THERE ARE SOME QUALITY PEOPLE WITHIN THE POLICE DEPARTMENT, CERTAINLY SOME OF THEM PROBABLY COULD BE POLICE CHIEF, BUT I THINK IT'S IMPORTANT THAT WE HAVE A NATIONAL SEARCH, THAT WE LOOK FAR AND WIDE FOR THE BEST CANDIDATE AND, YOU KNOW, EVEN THOUGH I'VE BEEN HERE FOR A LONG TIME AND SOME PEOPLE BELIEVE THAT I CAN GET THE JOB DONE, THERE MAY BE SOMEONE OUT THERE, SOME YOUNG, ENERGETIC -- OR OLDER ENERGETIC -- PERSON WHO COULD BRING SOME FRESH NEW IDEAS TO ST. LOUIS AND, YOU KNOW, I DON'T THINK THAT'S A BAD THING, ESPECIALLY SINCE WE HAVE NEVER DONE IT BEFORE.

YOU KNOW, WHAT THE HECK, IT MIGHT WORK AND WE MIGHT GET SOME GOOD IDEAS THAT WILL REALLY TRANSFORM ST. LOUIS.

SO I THINK WE WOULD BE DOING A DISSERVICE IF WE DIDN'T DO A NATIONAL SEARCH FOR A POLICE CHIEF.

AND THAT'S NOT A KNOCK ON ANYBODY WHO'S CURRENTLY WITHIN THE ST. LOUIS POLICE DEPARTMENT.

>> MR. ISOM, THE MAYOR WOULD LIKE TO CLOSE THE MEDIUM SECURITY WORKHOUSE BY THE FIRST OF JULY.

THAT'S ONE OF HER GOALS.

SHE RAN ON THAT AND NOW SHE'S IN CHARGE AND SHE PLANS TO PROCEED.

AND YET, THERE ARE SOME MEMBERS THE BOARD OF ALDERMEN LIKE JOE VICAR RO AND BRANDON BOSLEY WHO SAY THE MEDIUM SECURITY WORKHOUSE IS NOT AS BAD AS SHE'S INDICATED.

SHERIFF VERNON BETTS HAS SAID THE SAME THING, SO HAVE CORRECTIONS OFFICIALS.

WOULD YOU ALLOW MEMBERS OF THE MEDIA TO TAKE A TOUR OF THE MEDIUM SECURITY WORKHOUSE?

>> WELL, YOU KNOW, THE RULES AND REGULATIONS REALLY ONLY ALLOW LIMITED ACCESS INTO CORRECTIONAL FACILITY.

RIGHT NOW THERE ARE A NUMBER OF DIFFERENT THINGS THAT WE HAVE TO DO, NOT THE LEAST OF WHICH GETTING, YOU KNOW, RELEASES HAVE EVERY DETAINEE IN THERE, NOT ALLOWING MEDIA TO BE IN CERTAIN LOCATIONS.

THAT ALL IS A PRETTY LOGISTICAL NIGHTMARE AT THIS POINT IN TIME, ESPECIALLY WHEN WE HAVE, YOU KNOW, TWO DIFFERENT FACILITIES.

WE'VE GOT REPAIRS GOING ON.

WE'RE TRYING TO FIGURE OUT A WAY THAT WE CAN MOVE ALL OF OUR DETAINEES FROM MSI INTO THE JUSTICE CENTER.

SO JUST -- LOGISTICALLY RIGHT NOW IS JUST A TERRIBLE TIME FOR US TO START HAVING TOURS.

NOW, WE DO -- HAVE LET POLITICIANS IN BECAUSE THEY ARE THE VOICE AND THE EYES AND EARS OF THE PEOPLE, AND SO I THINK IT'S IMPORTANT TO LET POLITICAL OFFICIALS IN, TO SEE THE CONDITIONS OF THE JAIL TO SHE CAN REPORT OUT TO THE COMMUNITY.

BUT AT THIS POINT IN TIME, WITH ALL THE THINGS THAT WE'RE DEALING WITH TRYING TO TRANSITION, AND EVEN THE LIMITED VIEWS THAT MEDIA WOULD BE ALLOWED TO BE IN THERE, IT'S JUST NOT REALLY FEASIBLE FOR US AT THIS TIME.

>> IF I COULD JUST JUMP IN BRIEFLY, YOUR PREDECESSOR, JUDGE JIMMIE EDWARDS DID ALLOW SOME MEMBERS OF THE MEDIA TO LOOK, MYSELF INCLUDED.

HAVE THE RULES REGARDING MEDIA ACCESS CHANGED?

>> NO, I MEAN, HE COULD -- WE COULD AUTHORIZE IT.

THAT'S CERTAINLY TRUE.

BUT, YOU KNOW, AS I SAID, THERE ARE A LOT OF THINGS THAT WE'RE TRYING TO DO RIGHT NOW AND, YOU KNOW, WE REALLY DON'T HAVE THE TIME AND WANT TO PUT THE ENERGY INTO GIVING TOURS OF THE JAIL.

>> YOU REFERRED TO THREE BIG AREAS THAT ARE SO BIG, THAT IT'S HARD TO KNOW HOW QUICKLY YOU CAN HAVE AN ANSWER TO THIS, BUT EITHER WITH REGARD TO VIOLENT CRIME, THE JAIL SITUATION WHICH WE JUST TALKED ABOUT, AND PARTICULARLY THE 911, DO YOU HAVE ANY PROGRESS TO REPORT AT THIS POINT?

ANY NEWS TO MAKE TONIGHT OR OTHERWISE IF NOT, CERTAINLY FOCUS ON THE 911 SYSTEM, THAT SEEMS SO EGREGIOUS THAT ANYONE SHOULD CALL 911 AND GET A BUSY SIGNAL OR GET PUT ON HOLD.

WHAT CAN YOU TELL US ABOUT FIXING THAT IN PARTICULAR?

>> YEAH, UNFORTUNATELY THE 911 SYSTEM IS REALLY MORE ABOUT PERSONNEL AND NUMBERS OF PEOPLE THAN ANYTHING ELSE, AND YOU KNOW, I CAME FROM THE POLICE SIDE AND WHEN I WAS WITH THE POLICE, WE WERE SEPARATE FROM THE CITY.

BUT WHAT I FOUND WITH THE CITY IS THE HIRING PROCESS FOR THE CITY OF ST. LOUIS IS, WOW, IT'S ONE OF THE MOST COMPLEX THINGS I'VE EVER SEEN IN MY LIFE, SO TRYING TO GET PEOPLE HIRED IS REALLY THE BIGGEST ISSUE.

YOU KNOW, LIKE I'VE DUG INTO IT AND TRIED TO LOOK AT THE DATA ON, YOU KNOW, WHERE WE'RE HAVING PROBLEMS AND IT'S REALLY ABOUT NUMBERS.

AND SO I'M TRYING TO WORK ON A TEMPORARY SOLUTION WHERE FIRE DISPATCHERS WORK WITH POLICE DISPATCHERS TO TAKE CALL.

THAT WOULD INCREASE OUR NUMBERS.

BUT I'M EVEN HAVING PROBLEMS GETTING THAT DONE BECAUSE TECHNICALLY, FIRE AND POLICE CAN'T WORK TOGETHER, WHICH I DON'T UNDERSTAND.

BUT I'M WORKING THROUGH THOSE ISSUES.

LONG-TERM TRYING TO GET THE POLICE AND FIRE ON THE SAME SYSTEM, BUT THE OTHER THING IS ABOUT COMMUNICATION.

I KNOW A LOT OF PEOPLE CALL AND SAY THEY CAN'T GET THE POLICE DEPARTMENT AND CERTAINLY THAT'S TRUE BECAUSE OUR NUMBERS ARE LOW, BUT THERE ARE CIRCUMSTANCES WHEN THAT HAPPENS WHERE -- AND THAT'S NOT ALL THE TIME, BUT WHEN 16 PEOPLE CALL AT ONE TIME FOR THE SAME INCIDENT, WE MIGHT PICK UP THE CALL WITHIN A MINUTE AND WE MIGHT EVEN ARRIVE ON THE CALL WITHIN THREE MINUTES, BUT THAT 16th PERSON WAS ON HOLD AND THEY SAY, WELL, THE POLICE DEPARTMENT DIDN'T GET THERE.

SO THERE WAS JUST A STORY ON CHANNEL 2 ABOUT THIS.

SO PART OF IT IS EDUCATION THAT WE HAVE TO DO, THAT I'D LIKE TO DO.

CERTAINLY WE NEED TO FIX IT BECAUSE THERE ARE PEOPLE WHO WAIT FOR A LONG TIMING BUT THERE'S ALSO A LARGE NUMBER OF PEOPLE WHO CALL 911 FOR THINGS THAT ARE NOT 911-RELATED AND THERE'S ALSO THIS SECOND TIER THAT THERE ARE A LOT OF CALLS THAT PEOPLE GO TO AND WE GET TO ON TIME THAT ACTUALLY SOMEBODY WHO WAS THE 16th CALLER HAD TO WAIT FOR A LONG PERIOD OF TIME.

SO IT'S THOSE THREE THINGS.

THERE ARE LEGITIMATELY PEOPLE WHO HANG ON FOR A LONG TIME, THAT IS A PROBLEM.

AND THEN WE HAVE THIS EDUCATION COMPONENT.

AND THEN SOME PEOPLE WHO ACTUALLY HANG ON BECAUSE WE JUST HAVE TOO MUCH PEOPLE CALL AT ONE TIME.

SO THAT'S THE 911 SYSTEM.

I THINK WE'RE ACTUALLY MAKING A LITTLE PROGRESS ON THE VIOLENCE.

I WANT TO KNOCK ON WOOD BECAUSE THE NUMBERS SEEM TO BE TRENDING IN A GOOD DIRECTION.

AT LEAST THIS MONTH SINCE WE STARTED OUR SUMMER VIOLENCE DETAIL.

WE'VE STARTED TO GET TRAFFIC OUT THERE A LITTLE BIT MORE, BUT THEY'VE BEEN WORKING ON THIS SORT OF VIOLENCE PROJECT WITH US, BUT I'VE GOT SOME IDEAS ON HOW WE CAN GET MORE TRAFFIC ENFORCEMENT IN THE NEIGHBORHOODS AND ON THE HIGHWAYS.

SO THAT WILL TAKE SOME TIME.

>> CHIEF, RIGHT NOW WE'VE GOT SOME OF OUR, YOU KNOW, CORPORATE LEADERS HAVE BEEN SINGLING OUT CRIME AND THREATENING TO MOVE THEIR INDIVIDUAL, YOU KNOW, BUSINESS -- MICHAEL NEIDORFF -- AND YOU MENTIONED THE PROBLEM WITH HIRING PEOPLE AND I'M GOING TO FOLLOW THIS UP.

DOES THAT INCLUDE POLICE OFFICERS AS WELL?

>> NO, YOU KNOW, CURIOUSLY, THE POLICE DEPARTMENT HAS BEEN ABLE TO HIRE ENOUGH OFFICERS EACH YEAR TO DEAL WITH ATTRITION, AND SO THE ATTRITION NUMBERS, YOU KNOW, I WOULD IMAGINE ARE PROBABLY AROUND 80, 90 OFFICERS ON YEAR.

SO THAT'S NOT REALLY SMALL POTATOES.

90 OFFICERS A YEAR, SO YOU'RE ACTUALLY GETTING APPLICANTS AND YOU WOULD HAVE TO IMAGINE OUT OF THAT 90, THERE WERE A WHOLE BUNCH OF OTHER ONES THAT WERE TURN AWAY FOR VARIOUS REASONS, SOME LEGITIMATE AND SOME JUST, THEY WERE THE BEST 90 THAT WE CAME UP WITH.

SO I DON'T KNOW IF THIS ISSUE OF PEOPLE NOT APPLYING FOR THE POLICE DEPARTMENT IS THAT SIGNIFICANT AS WE THINK IT IS, ESPECIALLY IF YOU CAN GET 90 PEOPLE A YEAR.

>> OKAY, SO WHAT -- SO MY NEXT QUESTION WAS, IF CORPORATE ST. LOUIS STEPPED UP AND SAID -- AND I DON'T KNOW HOW MUCH IT BENEFITS -- HOW MUCH IT COSTS FOR A POLICE OFFICER TO BE A POLICE OFFICER, LET'S SAY FOR TEN YEARS, BUT IF THE COMMUNITY CAME TOGETHER AND SAID, LIKE, YOU KNOW, CHIEF HAYDEN, DAN ISOM, HERE'S $30 MILLION, BUT IT HAS TO GO TO HIRING POLICE OFFICERS AND, YOU KNOW, THEIR BENEFITS.

THAT'S THE ONLY THING YOU CAN SPEND IT ON.

COULD YOU PUT THAT TO USE AND WOULD THAT BE HELPFUL IN REDUCING THE VIOLENT CRIME RATE, ESPECIALLY IN NORTH ST. LOUIS?

>> WELL, YOU KNOW, MORE MONEY, MORE RESOURCES, THAT USUALLY DOES HELP A SITUATION.

YOU KNOW, MORE SO THAN THAT, WHAT I'M WORKING TOWARDS IS CORPORATE COMMUNITY TAKING MORE OWNERSHIP AND RESPONSIBILITY IN PUBLIC SAFETY.

IF YOU LOOK AT THE CENTRAL CORRIDOR ALL THE WAY THROUGH, THERE ARE A LOT OF CORPORATE SECURITY DEPARTMENTS FROM KINGSHIGHWAY ALL THE WAY DOWN TO THE LANDING, AND SO, YOU KNOW, WHAT I HOPE TO DO IS WORK WITH THEM WHERE THEY WOULD HELP US TO MANAGE SOME OF THESE AREAS, PROVIDE BETTER VISIBILITY, PATROL IN AREAS THAT COULD HELP US TO MANAGE DOWNTOWN AND CENTRAL CORRIDOR, PUT MORE SECURITY RESOURCES IN THOSE TO HELP US WITH THOSE AREAS, AND THEREBY, WE WOULD STILL BE IN THOSE AREAS, BUT WE COULD HAVE MORE ATTENTION IN THE NEIGHBORHOODS.

SO I'M ASKING THEM TO BE MORE A PART OF THE SECURITY FOOTPRINT IN AREAS THAT THEY HAVE A LOT OF RESOURCES.

>> YOU ARE EMINENTLY QUALIFIED.

YOU ARE VERY AWARE OF ALL OF THE CHALLENGES THAT WE FACE IN TERMS OF ST. LOUIS AND VIOLENT CRIME, CHIEF ISOM.

BUT WE'VE HAD THE POST-PANDEMIC SORT OF REALIZATION THAT WE HAVE LOCKS THAT DON'T WORK AT THE JUSTICE CENTER.

WE HAVE THE AFOREMENTIONED PROBLEMS WITH THE 911 SYSTEM.

WHAT WAS IT THAT MADE YOU SAY YES WHEN MAYOR JONES TOOK YOUR CALL IN THIS MOMENT?

WHAT WERE THE PERSONAL REASONS THAT MOTIVATED YOU TO SAY, YES, IN 2021?

>> WELL, I MEAN, I THINK YOU CERTAINLY SIT BACK ON THE SIDELINES AND YOU LOOK AT WHAT'S HAPPENING AND YOU FEEL THAT YOU HAVE SOMETHING TO OFFER, THAT YOU HAVE SORT OF BACKGROUND, EXPERIENCE, THE RELATIONSHIP TO HOPEFULLY MAKE A DIFFERENCE.

AND THEN ALSO, I MEAN, WE'VE GOT OUR FIRST AFRICAN AMERICAN FEMALE MAYOR WHO IS PUT IN THE POSITION TO TRY TO TURN A CITY AROUND.

I THINK WE'RE ALL INSPIRED BY THAT, BY THIS BEING THE FIRST, RIGHT?

AND THAT IT COULD BE SOMETHING REALLY GOOD FOR THE CITY OF ST. LOUIS, AND SO WHEN THE PREVIOUS PUBLIC SAFETY DIRECTOR STEPPED DOWN, CERTAINLY CRIME, PUBLIC SAFETY IS AT THE TOP OF THE ISSUE.

I MEAN, FOR THIS REGION.

AND, YOU KNOW, I FELT I COULD COME IN AND PROVIDE SOME STABILITY, SOME DIRECTION, ON THAT FRONT FOR THIS NEW MAYOR TO GET HER ADMINISTRATION -- ONE PART OF HER ADMINISTRATION GOING IN THE DIRECTION SHE NEEDED TO GO IN.

SO IT REALLY WAS A COMBINATION OF ME FEELING A SENSE THAT I COULD GIVE BACK TO THE COMMUNITY AND A SENSE OF PRIDE WITH THE NEW FIRST AFRICAN AMERICAN FEMALE MAYOR AND WANTING TO BE A PART OF THAT.

>> CAN I ASK A QUICK FOLLOW-UP?

IF YOU DISAGREE WITH MAYOR JONES, CHIEF, DO YOU FEEL COMFORTABLE ENOUGH, PRIVATELY, OBVIOUSLY, TO HAVE THOSE DISCUSSIONS WITH HER?

>> WELL, THE MAYOR TOLD ME JUST RECENTLY, IF YOU HAVE A PROBLEM, DAN, JUST PUSH BACK, YOU KNOW, SO WE WANT YOUR HONEST FEEDBACK ON HOW YOU FEEL.

AND SO, YOU KNOW, I'M MOVING IN THE DIRECTION I THINK IS BEST FOR DEALING WITH CRIME IN THE CITY OF ST. LOUIS.

WE'RE TRYING TO DO THE BEST WE CAN WITH THE JAIL, AND SO YEAH, I FEEL VERY COMFORTABLE THAT I CAN BE OPEN AND HONEST WITH THIS MAYOR ABOUT HOW I FEEL, THE DIRECTION I THINK WE OUGHT TO GO.

>> CHIEF, THE MAYOR TALKS ABOUT SETTING THE APPROPRIATE PROFESSIONAL TO SITUATIONS AND NOT ALWAYS A POLICE OFFICER.

AND I INTERVIEWED THE OUTGOING CHIEF OF MAPLE WOOD, STEVE CRUZ, A FEW WEEKS AGO.

AND HE WAS SAYING THE PROBLEM -- HE SAYS WE WORK WITH BJC SOCIAL WORKERS ALL THE TIMING BUT YOU DON'T KNOW WHO THE APPROPRIATE PERSON IS WHEN YOU GET A CALL AND THE IDEA OF SENDING SOCIAL WORKERS OUT ON A LOT OF THESE CALLS IS PUTTING THEM IN TERRIBLE DANGER.

HOW DO YOU EXPLAIN THAT?

HOW WOULD YOU KNOW, WELL, THIS CALL WON'T REQUIRE A POLICE OFFICER, WE'LL SEND A SOCIAL WORKER?

>> WELL, I DON'T THINK, AT LEAST IN THE POLICE DEPARTMENT WITH THE CURRENT SYSTEM, IT'S NOT WORKING LIKE THAT.

THERE ARE CREWS WHERE THE SOCIAL WORKER WORKS WITH A POLICE OFFICER, SO THEY WOULD BE THE SECOND PERSON IN THE CAR.

OR AN OFFICER GETS TO A CALL AND THEY ASSESS IT AND THEY FIND OUT THAT THIS IS SOMETHING THAT THE SOCIAL WORKER COULD PROVIDE MORE SUPPORT FOR.

I MEAN, WE'RE IN THE PROCESS OF TRYING TO -- AND THIS IS BEFORE I EVEN CAME -- TO EVALUATE WHICH CALLS CAN A SOCIAL WORKER ACTUALLY GO TO BY HIS OR HERSELF.

>> RIGHT.

>> BUT YOU'RE RIGHT, THERE ARE A LOT THERE THAT NEED THAT INITIAL ASSESSMENT BY A POLICE OFFICER, BUT EITHER WAY, EVEN IF YOU GET TO A POINT WHERE YOU'RE ABLE TO DO THAT, THAT'S A LOT OF CALLS THAT COULD BE DIVERTED FROM A POLICE RESPONSE, WHICH ULTIMATELY IS BETTER FOR POLICE.

BECAUSE WHEN POLICE ARE INTERVENING IN PERSONAL CIRCUMSTANCES THAT DON'T REALLY INVOLVE THE POLICE, OFTENTIMES THE POLICE SOLUTION -- AND THIS IS NOT ANY KNOCK ON THE POLICE -- IS TO USE LEGAL MEANS TO RESOLVE THE SOLUTION, LIKE ARREST.

AND SO IF WE CAN MINIMIZE THAT IMPACT ON CITIZENS THROUGH ANOTHER MEANS, IT'S ALL GOOD FOR EVERYBODY, RIGHT?

AND SO I DO AGREE WITH YOU, THIS IS A WORK IN PROGRESS, THAT RIGHT NOW WE'RE NOT VERY COMFORTABLE WITH JUST SENDING SOCIAL WORKERS OUT.

IT'S MORE POLICE AND SOCIAL WORKERS, BUT WE'RE WORKING TO THAT POINT WHERE WE CAN IDENTIFY WHICH CALLS WOULD BE APPROPRIATE.

LIKE HOMELESS, YOU KNOW, WE GET A LOT OF CALLS FOR HOMELESSNESS.

>> RIGHT.

>> DO WE REALLY NEED TO GO TO THOSE?

>> CHIEF ISOM, WE'RE OUT OF TIME WITH JUST 20 SECONDS TO GO.

IS THERE THE POSSIBILITY WE'LL REMOVE INTERIM FROM YOUR TITLE AND YOU'LL BE THE PUBLIC SAFETY DIRECTOR FOR THE CITY OF ST. LOUIS?

>> WELL, I GAVE THE MAYOR TWO YEARS, SO RIGHT NOW I'M STICKING TO THAT.

>> OKAY.

WELL, THANK YOU VERY MUCH FOR JOINING US ON NEXT UP.

WE SURE APPRECIATE YOUR TIME AND THANKS FOR SHARING THE INFORMATION WHICH YOU DID.

>> THANK YOU.

>> THANK YOU VERY MUCH.

DAN ISOM, THE INTERIM PUBLIC SAFETY DIRECTOR FOR TWO YEARS WITH THE CITY OF ST. LOUIS.

THANKS, EVERYBODY.

WE'LL SEE YOU NEXT WEEK AT THIS TIME.

>> Announcer: DONNYBROOK IS MADE POSSIBLE BY THE SUPPORT OF THE BETSY AND THOMAS PATTERSON FOUNDATION AND THE MEMBERS OF NINE PBS.