♪ >> WELCOME BACK TO OTR GUEST THIS WEEK IS BRIAN CALLEY FORMER LIEUTENANT GOVERNOR AND NOW HEAD OF THE SMALL BUSINESS ASSOCIATION OF MICHIGAN.

OUR LEAD STORY, ANOTHER UNFORCED ERROR BY THE WHITMER ON THE OTR PANEL, STEPHEN HENDERSON, EMILY LAWLER, AND BILL BALLENGER.

SIT IN WITH US AS WE GET THE INSIDE OUT, OFF THE RECORD.

♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ PRODUCTION OFF THE RECORD IS MADE POSSIBLE IN BY PART BY THE FOLLOWING: BUSINESS LEADERS OF MICHIGAN HAS A PLAN TO MAKE MICHIGAN THE TOP TEN SAY IT IN THE NATION FOR JOBS, PERSONAL INCOME, THE HALT THINK ECONOMY.

LEARN MORE TO MICHIGAN'S ROAD TO TOP TEN.COM.

AND NOW, THIS EDITION OF OFF THE RECORD WITH TIM SKUBICK.

>> WELCOME BACK TO HOLIDAY EDITION OF OFF THE RECORD.

NICE TO HAVE YOU ONBOARD ON THIS HOLIDAY WEEKEND.

WE ALSO HAVE ONBOARD, WE HAVE BILL BALLENGER, STEPHEN HENDERSON AND EMILY LAWLER.

EMILY, LET'S START WITH YOU.

MIM, THE GOVERNOR WENT TO LAND SHARK LAST WEEKEND E WEEKEND.

WHY THAT IS A PROBLEM?

FOR YOU NON-EAST LANT ARE LANSING RESIDENTS IS A LOCAL PUB, RIGHT?

WHAT'S THE DEAL ON THE STORY?

>> LET'S START WITH SURPRISE.

THERE ARE A LOT OF GOOD BARS IN EAST LANSING.

I WOULD HAVE NEVER GUESSED I WOULD HAVE RUN INTO LAND SHARK BECAUSE I HAVE NOT BEEN TO LAND SHARK IN THE LAST DECADE, SINCE GRADUATING FROM MSU, I DID TALK TO CURRENT MSU STUDENTS WHO CONFIRMED TO ME, IT IS STILL PRIMARILY A BASEMENT DIVE COLLEGE BAR, AND THEY TOLD ME THEY WERE NOT EVEN AWARE THERE WAS FOOD SERVED AT THE LUNCH HOUR, SO RESTAURANT WAS THE MOST CURIOUS PART OF HER RESPONSE MY OPINION, BUT THEN IN ANY CASE, YES, THE GOVERNOR WAS PICTURED AT THE LAND SHARK WITH 12 OTHER PEOPLE AT A TABLE AND HER EXECUTIVE ORDERS DENIED LIMITED GATHERINGS TO SIX AT RESTAURANT TABLES SO SHOW WAS PICTURED IN VIOLATION OF HER OWN ORDERS DUE TO RECENT CONTROVERSY, ACTUALLY, I AM NOT SURE IF SHE LEARNED FROM THAT OR WHAT BUT SHE DID PROMPTLY APOLOGIZE, EXPLAIN WE'RE ALL VACCINATED AND PUSHED TABLES TOGETHER.

AND THAT IS HOW SHE EXPLAIN THE CIRCUMSTANCES.

MUCH TO DO ABOUT NOTHING.

WELL, I THINK NOT THE MOST CONSEQUENCE THING THAT EVER HAPPENED TO A GOVERNOR AND AT THE SAME TIME, THE QUESTIONS, IT MAKES YOU START ASKING, THE FIRST ONE, OF COURSE WHAT IS WAS SHE THINKING DOING IT IN THE FIRST PLACE, BUT THE SECOND ONE QUICKLY, YOU KNOW, YOU LOOK AT THAT PICTURE, IT NOT LIKE SOMEBODY SNUCK UP AND, YOU KNOW, SNAPPED A PHOTO SHE WAS UNAWARE OF.

YOU KNOW, LOOKING AT THE CAMERA.

EVERYONE IN THE PICTURE IS LOOKING AT THE CAMERA AND SMILING, SO YOU ARE WONDERING, WHAT IS GOING THROUGH HER HEAD AT THAT MOMENT.

SHE KNOWS, AT THAT MOMENT, SHE IS VIOLATING HER OWN ORDER, AND SHE KNOWS THERE IS RECORD BEING MADE OF THAT.

WHY IS SHE SMILING?

YOU KNOW?

THE BRAZENNESS OF THAT, OR THE ALOOFNESS IS BOTHERSOME.

THEN, YOU START TO ASK QUESTIONS BECAUSE THESE ARE NOW SERIAL ERRORS, YOU KNOW, YOU ALWAYS ASK, WHO IS AROUND THIS POLITICIAN?

WHAT ARE THEY SAYING TO THAT POLITICIAN ABOUT HOW TO HANDLE THESE KIND OF THINGS, THE ADVICE SHE IS GETTING, SEEMS TO BE OFF OR MAYBE NONEXISTENT AND YOU START TO ANSWER QUESTIONS WHO ARE THE COMMUNICATIONS PEOPLE AROUND HER.

WHO IS THE CHIEF OF STAFF, THE KINDS OF PEOPLE WHOLE ARE THERE TO PROTECT YOU FROM YOURSELF, AND RIGHT NOW, SHE IS NOT BOOING PROTECTED FROM HER OWN MISJUDGMENTS.

WELL, THE INTERESTING THING, A LOT OF PEOPLE AROUND THAT TABLE, WOULD YOU HAVE THOUGHT THAT SOMEBODY WOULD HAVE RAISED THEIR HAND AND SAID, YOU BE?

I DON'T THINK THIS IS A GOOD IDEA.

THEN, THEN, CORRECT ME IF I AM WRONG.

DIDN'T PROBLEM THE TEAM PUT THIS ON FACEBOOK?

WHICH MAY HAVE GENERATED.

WELL, GOODNESS GRACIOUS, BILL.

THIS IS DUMB FOUNDING, IT REALLY IS.

>> WELL, THIS PLAYS RIGHTING INTO THE ACCUSATION FROM HER CRITICS THAT SHE IS THE QUEEN OF HIP POCK RACY.

I HAVE RULES FOR THEE BUT NOT FOR ME.

SHE CAN DO WHATEVER SHE WANTS TO.

SHE SHOULD HAVE REALIZED WHEN GAVIN NEWSOM, THE GOVERNOR OF CALIFORNIA WAS CAUGHT DINING IN VIOLATION OF HIS OWN LOCKDOWN ORDERS LAST YEAR, THAT SET OFF A RECALL DRIVE AGAINST HIM.

HE IS NOW SUBJECT TO BE A RECALL.

SO THE PROBLEMS FOR GRETCHEN WHITMER SHE IS VIEWED AS BEING TOO PUNITIVE PER RULES AND LOCKDOWN ORDERS WERE TOO STRICK, SHE WOULDN'T LISTEN TO ANYONE ABOUT THEM, AND SHE HAD BEEN CAUGHT IN DIRECT VIOLATION OF HER OWN ORDER.

SO IT IS NOT A GOOD OPTIC FOR THE GOVERNOR AND SHE IS GOING TO HAVE TO OVERCOME AND NOT GOING TO HELP HER LAYER YEAR?

>> I DON'T THINK THERE IS ANY REPUBLICAN WHO WILL USE TISSUE AGAINST HER WHO BELIEVES THE NEXT RACE FOR GOVERNOR WILL CIRCLE AROUND SHE PICKED A LOUSY JOINT TO GO TO IN EAST LANSING?

THERE ARE BROADER ISSUES YOU COULD WRITE NARRATIVE IS THAT WHO IS CALLING THE SHOTS AND TO AD TO THAT STORY, IS NEW INFORMATION ON THE AIRPLANE STORY WHICH IS NOW IN ITS SECOND, EXCUSE ME, THE SECOND MONTH EMILY, WHAT IS THE LATEST REVELATION THERE?

YEAH.

IT IS JUST A STRING OF CHANGES AND OOPS REALLY IN RELATION TO THIS PLANE TRIP TO FLORIDA TO THE GOVERNOR AND TO SEE HER FATHER WHO SHE SAID WAS ILL.

BUT, YEAH, ACTUALLY, HER LAST WEEK, I BELIEVE, WE LEARNED THAT A NONPROFIT CONNECTED TO THE GOVERNOR AND FUNDED THAT TRIP, THEN, THAT APPARENTLY CREATED SOME PROBLEMS WITH THE FA SAUDI ARABIA, FOR THE COMPANY WHO OWNED THE PLANE, AND IN TERMS OF WHAT KIND OF COMPENSATION THEY ACCEPTED AND THE ATTEMPT OF DOING THAT WAS MAKING AN OFFICIAL CAMPAIGN EXPENSE WHICH SPURRED THE OWN COMPLAINT BECAUSE SOME PEOPLE ARE SAYING THIS IS NOT A VALID CAMPAIGN FOR EXPENSES AND WAS THERE FOR A PERSONAL REASON.

WELL, THE GOOD NEWS FOR THE GOVERNOR IF THERE IS ANY AND THE TRUE STORIES, THIS IS NOT HAPPENING IN MAY OF 2021 AND NOT MAY OF 2022 STEVEN.

DO YOU MAKE OF THE LATEST REVELATIONS NOW THEY TAKE SA CAMPAIGN CONTRIBUTION TO PAY ANOTHER PLANE AND THE REPUBLICANS CAN HARDLY WAIT TO CHARGE HER WITH SOMETHING WRONG ON THAT.

WILL THEY NOT?

>> I WOULD IMAGINE THEY WILL.

I WOULD IMAGINE THAT, YOU KNOW, AGAIN, HOW BIG OF A DEAL IS THIS OVERALL, PROBABLY NOT THE MOST SIGNIFICANT THING GOING ON, BUT AGAIN, THE WAY IT HAS BEEN HANDLED, KEEPS THE STORY ALIVE, RIGHT?

THERE IS A LITTLE DRIP OF INFORMATION, THAT COMES OUT, AND EACH STORY SEEMS TO FOLD BACK ON ITSELF OR FOLD BACK ON ANOTHER STORY, THAT YOU TOLD A DAY OR SO AGO OR A WEEK AGO AND, AGAIN, WHAT IS THE ADVICE, I MEAN, IF YOU COME OUT UPFRONT AND SAID, YOU KNOW, MY DAD IS SICK.

NEED TO SEE HIM, AND I KNOW THERE IS ORDER THAT SAYS SHOULDN'T BE DOING THIS SORT OF THING BUT IS EMERGENCY ABLE DON'T HAVE A CHOICE IN A WOULDN'T HOLD THAT AGAINST ANY OTHER CITIZEN WHO DID THE SAME THING, AND WOULD HAVE BEEN THE END OF THE STORY, I THINK, BUT DOING IT THE WAY THEY DID, AND BEING DISCOVERED, THE WAY THEY WERE AND THEN, TELLING ALL OF THESE SORT OF VERY SMALL BITS OF INFORMATION ABOUT WHAT IS GOING ON AND NOT COMING OUT AND SAYING, HERE IS ALL OF WHAT HAPPENED IS NOT A BIG DEAL, AND IS KEEPING THE STORY ALIVE.

THERE AGAIN,WHO ARE THE PEOPLE AROUND HER GIVING HER ADVICE, WHO IS TELLING HER THAT THIS IS THE WAY TO GET AWAY FROM THESE THINGS OR TO PUT THEM TO REST AND THAT IS A SERIOUS QUESTION, BECAUSE HERE IT IS INCONSEQUENCE BUT PRESUMABLY THE SAME PEOPLE ARE GIVING ADVICE ON MUCH MORE IMPORTANT SUBJECTS AND SO I THINK, THE INQUIRIES INTO THAT GROUP OF PEOPLE AND HOW THEY ARE COUNSELING OUR CHIEF EXECUTIVE IS REALLY SIGNIFICANT.

>> MR.BALLENGER, WEREN'T YOU TALK IF YOU WERE IN A BUNCH OF POLL TUGS THEN THINKING ABOUT DOING SOMETHING ARE YOU DON'T WANT THE PUBLIC TO KNOW ABOUT, YOU WOULD ASSUME THE PUBLIC WOULD KNOW ABOUT IT?

I MEAN, I DISAGREE STEVE TO THIS EXTENT.

I DON'T THINK WE EXPECT THE GOVERNOR TO BE PROTECTED FROM HERSELF BY HER OWN STAFF, I MEAN, LOOK, SHE IS THE GOVERNOR FOR HEAVEN'S SAKE.

SHE IS THE ONE WHO IS RESPONSIBLE FOR THE OWN ACTIONS ANIMATED THESE DECISION THE IDEA YOU HAVE TO HAVE SENSIBLE PRACTICAL PEOPLE AROUND TO WARN YOU OR TO TELL YOU GOVERNOR, FOR GOD'S SAKES, DO YOU REALIZE IF YOU DO THIS WHAT MAY HAPPEN?

SO I THINK THE PROBLEM WITH THE TRIP TO FLORIDA IS THAT IT EXPOSE TWOS SIDES OF HER.

NUMBER ONE, THE ARROGANCE ON THE ONE SIDE AND THE SECRECY ON THE OTHER AND TRIED TO COVER IT UP AND SHE NEVER CAME OUT AND MADE A FULL BLOWN STATEMENT RIGHT OFF THE BAT LAYING IT ALL OUT, GETTING IT BE HAN HER.

IT IS JUST LEAKED OUT AND THEN ALWAYS IS A PROBLEM TO KEEP THE STORY GOING AND AS STEVE SAID AND THIS IS A BIG BOX FOR THE GOVERNOR ALL THE WAY AROUND ITS NOT GOING TO HAPPEN ALL OVER AGAIN.

THEY WOULD BE RELENTLESS ON THAT AND THIS STORIES NOT ANYWHERE CLOSE TO GOING AWAY.

THE STORY THAT MAY BE GOING AWAY SOONER THAN EXPECTED.

STOVE STEPHEN HENDERSON WHAT DO YOU THINK OF CANDICE MILLER RUNNING MATE DOWN THERE IN DETROIT MR.JAMES GRAY.

>> , FOR STARTERS, THE TICKET SHOULD BE FLIPPED, RIGHT?

[LAUGHTER] FROM A REPUBLICAN PERSPECTIVE, LOOK, CANDICE MILLER AND I DISAGREE ON MOST THINGS BUT PREMEN DOUSE RESPECT FOR HER AND THE WAY SHE HANDLES THINGS AND HER TOUGHNESS AND HER DECISION PLAQUING AND SOMEBODY WITH IMPECCABLE INTEGRITY AND I WOULD THINK IF YOU ARE A REPUBLICAN YOU WANT TO SEE AT THE TOP OF THE TICKET AND SHE HAS SAID FOR A LONG TIME, SHE WAS NOT INTERESTED IN RUNNING FOR GOVERNOR, BUT THEN THE QUESTION WOULD BE, WOULD YOU RUN AS LIEUTENANT GOVERNOR AND FRANKLY, AS LIEUTENANT TO SOMEBODY WHO HAS GOT NO GOVERNING EXPERIENCE.

WHATEVER YOU LIKE ABOUT JAMES CRAIG AND NEVER HELD OFFICE BEFORE.

AGAIN, IT IS SO EARLY IN ALL OF THIS THAT YOU KNOW, I MEAN, ALL OF THESE ARE YOU KNOW VERY, VERY EARLY TRIAL MEANS TO SEE IF THEY GET SHOUT DOESN'T AND CONTINUE TO FLOW ABLE NOT SURE I WOULD, I WOULD WRITE OFF CANDICE MILLER'S NAME IN THE CONTEXT OF NEXT YEAR'S RACE ENTIRELY.

SHE IS WILLING TO CONSIDER SOMETHING LIKE THIS WHY WOULDN'T SHE CONSIDER AN ACTUAL RUN TO BE THE GOVERNOR, HERSELF?

>> TWO THINGS ABOUT CANDICE MILLER.

MACOMB COUNTY AND MACOMB COUNTY.

EMILY, THE QUESTION HERE IS, MY GUT TELLS ME SHE IS SIMPLY NOT GOING TO DO THIS?

>> YOU KNOW, OBVIOUSLY, SHE BRINGS A LOT OF TO THE TICKET, AND I THAT IS SOMETHING, YOU KNOW, ESPECIALLY SOME OF THESE UNTESTED CANDIDATES A USE, CERTAINLY.

BUT, YEAH, MAIN, IN TERMS OF ACTUAL DIFFERENTIAL OF HOW HARD IT IS TO RUN, RUN FOR LIEUTENANT GOVERNOR, COMPARED TO HOW HARD IT IS TO RUN FOR GOVERNOR, WOULD YOU STILL BE EXPECTED TO PULL OUT OF THE SAME ACTIVITIES AND CAMPAIGN LEVEL, I THINK, ONCE ARE IN OFFICE, LIEUTENANT GOVERNOR AND RESPONSIBILITIES CAN CERTAINLY FLUCTUATE TO GOVERNOR TO GOVERNOR, YEAH, YEAH, I MEAN, I DO HAVE A HARD TIME SEEING, YOU KNOW, HER TAKING THAT SORT OF SECOND ROLE AS STEPHEN SAID, I JUST THINK THAT, YOU KNOW, PART OF THE VALUE SHE BRINGS IS THAT SHE HAS BEEN SORT OF A TOP LEADER FOR SO LONG.

I DON'T KNOW.

MAYBE THAT IS INTERESTING FORM OF GOVERNANCE OR INTERESTING TICKET GOING FORWARD AND SURPRISED IF WE SEE IT.

>> MR.BALLENGER.

>> WELL, I AGREE WITH YOU AND STEVE AND EMILY.

NUMBER ONE,, IT OUGHT TO BE FLIPPED, IF IT IS.

AT LEAST SHE OUGHT TO BE AT THE TOP OF THE LIST.

>> NOT GOING TO HAPPEN.

>> FOR THE REPUBLICANS.

THEN I AGREE WITH YOU, TIM, I DON'T THINK SHE WILL DO IT.

WHY WOULD SHE DO IT.

PHYSICAL SHE IS GOING TO TURN DOWN RUNNING FOR THE TOP JOB, WOULD SHE TAKE THIS SECOND JOB, NOBODY IN MICHIGAN VOTES FOR GOVERNOR BASED ON WHO THE VICE, LIEUTENANT GOVERNOR NOMINEE IS.

SO I DON'T THINK IT IS GOING TO HAPPEN.

IT SHOWN HAPPEN.

SHE WOULD BE THE BEST NOMINEE REPUBLICANS CAN COME UP NEXT YEAR.

SO FAR, AS LEAST, SHE SAID SHE IS NOT RUNNING.

I BELIEVE HER.

I DON'T THINK SHE WILL.

PHYSICAL SO SHE IS CERTAINLY NOT GOING TO ACCEPT SECOND PLACE ON THE TICKET.

THE PARTY WILL GO TO HER AND I AM SURE THEY HAVE DONE THIS.

MISS MILLER YOU DONE CARE.

WE WON A ON THE TICK KETTLE TO BEAT GRETCHEN WHITMER, THANK YOU VERY MUCH.

THE ANSWER IS A FAT THANKS NOW WITH THANKS.

ALL RIGHT.

SAY GOOD MORNING TO BRIAN CALLEY LIEUTENANT GOVERNOR I CHECKED.

HOW ARE YOU DOING MR.CALLEY.

GOOD TO SEE YOU.

>> GREAT TO SEE YOU, TIM.

GREAT TO BE BACK ON THE SHOW.

GLAD YOU REMEMBER MY NAME.

>> HOW COULD WE FORGET, RAWING.

CONGRATS ON THE NEW GIG THE INCOMING CEO SO YOU GOT, MAYBE, THE WORK CUT OUT FOR YOU, RIGHT?

>> YEAH.

SO MUCH WORK TO DO WITH SMALL BUSINESS YET.

IT HAS BEEN AN AWESOME OPPORTUNITY, A GREAT MISSION, AWESOME TEAM THAT HAS BEEN BUILT OVER THE YEARS.

TAKING THE REIGNS AT THE END OF THIS YEAR FROM ROB FOWLER WHO BUILT THIS FROM 5,000 MEMBERS UP TO OVER TO 28,000 MEMBERS.

AND IT IS, IT IS JUST A WONDERFUL, WONDERFUL ORGANIZATION.

LOVE THE WORK.

FELT LIKE HOME AWAY, AND CAN SEE MYSELF REALLY MAKING CAREER HERE.

>> THIS BROADCAST TODAY.

THE PHONE RIDGES.

IT IS JAMES CRAIG ON THE OWNER OF THE LINE.

SHOULD I ACCEPT THE DONALD TRUMP ENDORSEMENT?

>> WELL, WHEN IT COMES TO ADVISING CANDIDATES, PARTICULARLY IN PARTISAN RACE, OUR ORGANIZATION GETS INVOLVED IN THESE RACES.

WE ARE EXPLICITLY AND DETERMINED TO BE BIPARTISAN, AND THIS MEANS THAT EVERYBODY HAS A CHANCE AT IT.

AM HAPPY TO GIVE PRIVATE ADVICE TO JAMES CRAIG OR GRETCHEN WHITMER OR ANYONE WHO GIVES ME A CALL AND FLATTERS THAT TYPE OF REQUEST.

IN TERMS OF TAKING PUBLIC POSITIONS AND GIVING THAT TYPE OF ADVICE, I WILL WAIT FOR MY ORGANIZATION WHO GETS INVOLVED IN THE SAME RACES TO GO THROUGH A PROCESS AND THEN, ONCE THAT PROCESS HAS CONCLUSION, THEN, WILL BE RIGHT OUT IN THERE FRONT SUPPORTING THAT CONCLUSION.

U WILL NOT ANSWER MY QUESTION, RIGHT?

I AM SORRY.

>> I AM GLAD YOU CAME TOLL THAT CONCLUSION STRAIGHTAWAY, TIM.

>> YEAH.

YES, IN THE BUSINESS WE CALL THAT A WASTED TWO MINUTES.

ALL RIGHT.

YOU GOT ONE.

SEE IF YOU CAN DO BETTER, OK. >> HE IS STILL IN THAT POLITICIAN MODE, RIGHT?

HE STILL KNOWS HOW TO DO THAT.

SO I AM CURIOUS WHAT YOUR ASSESSMENT IS WITH WHERE WE ARE WITH SMALL BUSINESS HERE IN ECONOMY AND ME WITH TAKEN IT A THEY HAVE TAKEN THE BIGGEST HITS IN COVID.

GIVE ME A LIST OF THINGS THAT YOU THINK NEED TO HAPPEN TO GET US BACK UP OFF OUR MEANS AND RUN TOGETHER.

>> WELL, WE ARE AT THAT POINT, NOW, FINALLY, WE HAVE A DATE CERTAIN.

WE KNOW CAPACITY RESTRICTIONS WILL BE LIFTED ON JULY FIRST AND BEING EXPANDED ON JUNE FIRST SO NO SUBSTITUTE FOR BEING ABLE TO OPERATE AT A SUSTAINABLE LEVEL AND CAPACITY.

THAT IS NUMBER ONE.

QUICKLY, THAT HAS SHIFTED OVER TO CONCERNS ABOUT WORK FORCE AND AVAILABILITY OF WORK FORCE, WE ARE HEARING AT A LEVEL AND BUY IN HIGHER THAN I EVER HEARD IN MY TIME AND PUBLIC OFFICE AND MY TIME AND WE CANNOT FIND PEOPLE TO FILL THE OPEN POSITIONS AND IN PLAYERS THEY ARE DOING THEIR PART AND RAISING RAGE AND BEING MORE FLEXIBLE AND DOING WHAT THEY HAVE TO DO AND THERE IS STILL A HUGE RELUCTANCE AND IDENTIFIED A LOT OF BARRIERS AS WELL, SO WE FIND OURSELVES GETTING INVOLVED IN AREAS LIKE CHILD CARE FOR EXAMPLE.

TRANSPORTATION ISSUES AND EDUCATION ISSUES AND TRYING TO FIND THE DIFFERENT BARRIERS THAT ARE PREVENTING PEOPLE FROM FILMING THE OPPORTUNITIES THAT ARE THROUGHOUT TODAY, SO THE WORK OF BUSINESS HAS CHANGED A LOT OVER THE COURSE OF THE LAST SEVERAL YEARS, IT OUTED TO BE REGULATIONS AND TAX AND IT STILL INCLUDES THOSE THINGS BUT NOW, AS WE MOVE INTO THIS NEXT PHASE OF THE PANDEMIC AND THE CONTROLS THAT WERE IN PLACE BEFORE AND IT REALLY IS GOING TO BE ABOUT REMOVING BARRIERS TO THE WORKFORCE AND ENCOURAGING PEOPLE TO GET BACK TO WORK.

>> MR.BALLENGER GO AHEAD, STEPHEN.

>> CAN YOU GIVE A SENSE OF HOW MUCH WE HAVE LOST IN A SMALL BUSINESS SENSE LIKE, LIKE EVEN AMONG THE MEMBERS?

HOW MANY PEOPLE DIDN'T SURVIVE THIS?

>> , WE DID SURVEYS.

THERE IS NO WAY TO KNOW FOR SURE ACROSS THE BOARD WHEN A SMALL BUSINESS GUESS OUT OF BUSINESS THEY DON'T DO PUBLIC ANNOUNCEMENT AND THEY QUIETLY CLOSE THEIR DOORS SO A LOOK BACK WHEN YOU DETERMINE WHAT THAT LOSSES WITH AND DID SURVEYS THROUGH THE PANDEMIC WE FOUND THAT ABOUT WIN SEVEN WERE EITHER OUT OF BUSINESS OR WERE NOT CONFIDENT THEY WERE GOING TO SURVIVE.

AND ENTREPRENEURS ARE POSITIVE MYSTIQUE PEOPLE.

SO, SO WE THAT I MAY BE EVEN UNDER COUNT WHEN THE DUST SETTLE BUS AT THE SAME TIME, THOUGH, WE HAVE SEEN JUST AN EXTRAORDINARY NUMBER OF NEW BUSINESS FILINGS HAPPENING AS WELL.

SO THERE IS A BIG A GREAT SHUFFLING HAPPENING OUT THERE IN THE COMING RIGHT NOW.

THEY LOOK GOOD.

IT IS JUST A MATTER OF UNDER NEATH THAT, YOU HAVE ARE WIDELY EXPERIENCES SO SIT DOWN RESTAURANTS COMING PAIRED TO DRIVE THROUGH FOR EXAMPLE.

ONE THE RECOVERY HAS NOT BEGUN THE OTHER ONE HAD A RECORD YEAR.

AREAS WHERE YOU HAVE OFFICE WORKERS WHICH FOR THE BASIS AND WHOLE ECOSYSTEM OF SMALL BUSINESSES THAT SERVE OFFICE WORKERS AND IS WOE, IN THE PLACE THEY USED TO BE, THEN, THERE IS NOT?

YOU CANNOT OUTSMART THAT.

THE MARKET MOVED TO A DIFFERENT PLACE AND DID SO VIRTUALLY OVERNIGHT.

THOSE TYPES OF, THAT IS WHERE THE LONG IS ON THIS PANDEMIC IN TERMS OF THE ECONOMIC IMPACT, ARE THE INDUSTRIES, THAT THAT WERE IMPACTED MOST BY THE CAPACITY LIMITS BUT ALSO, JUST THE CHANGE THE FLOW OF LIFE THAT, THAT, THAT ARE NOT NECESSARILY GOING TO CHANGE BACK IN THE SAME WAY.

EMILY, LET'S GO TO YOU.

>> I, WELL, SO ONE OF THE THINGS PEOPLE ARE UNDERSTANDING IS THAT YOU KNOW, YOU HEAR A LOT OF BUSINESSES TALKING ABOUT A TALENT SHORTAGE, YOU HEAR A LOT OF REGULAR PEOPLE TALKING ABOUT HOW THEY ARE NOT WILLING TO WORK FOR THE WAGES THAT ARE BEING OFFERED.

WHAT DO YOU MAKE OF THAT DISCUSSION?

>> WELL, WELL, I THINK EMPLOYERS ARE RESPONDING TO THAT AND THEY KNOW, THEY KNOW THAT YOU ARE ENTICING PEOPLE TO COME BACK IS DIFFICULT THERE IS A LOFT FACTORS THAT PLAY THERE AND WE HAD ONE OF THE MEMBERS FOR EXAMPLE RECENTLY THAT HAS BREWERY AND MACOMB COUNTY, AND TALKING ABOUT HER PACKAGE TODAY.

WHERE PEOPLE THAT COULD NOT HAVE BEEN THE RESTAURANT,$23-$24-$25 AN HOUR.

HEALTH INSURANCE.

TWO WEEKS OF PAID TIME OFF AND 401(k) AND CANNOT GET FOAM APPLY.

AND SO REALLY, WHEN YOU GET DOWN TO A LOT OF THE.

A LOT, WE ARE ALL REDUCED BUT WE HAVE$28,000.

THEY REALLY DO ADD UP.

WHAT WE'RE HEARING MORE AND MORE OFTEN THAT IS BUSINESSES ARE HAVING A HARD TIME COMPETING JUST WITH THE IDEA OF MORE TIME OFF.

RIGHT?

SO YOU CANNOT COMPETE WITH 100% TIME-OFF.

YEAH.

MAYBE I CAN PAY$10 MORE THAN UNEMPLOYMENT PAYS VERSUS$15-16AN HOUR.

MAYBE I CAN PAY YOU MORE.

I CANNOT GUFF YOU 20 WEEKS OFF THAT'S THE PART THAT IS MOST IMPORTANT TO PEOPLE AND EDUCATING KIDS AT HEM AND DOING ANY NUMBER OF THINGS THAT IS MORE IMPORTANT TO THEM THAN THAT PAY THEY CAN EARN I THINK THAT IS THE FACTOR THAT SMALL BUSINESSES CANNOT COME PETE WITH 2 WEEKS OFF AND THE NUMBER ONE THING TO A PERSON, THEN, THEN WE ARE GOING TO BE STRUGGLING FOR WORKERS FOR A LONG TIME.

>> MR.BALLENGER NOW.

>> MR.CALLEY, YOU SPENT A LOT OF TIME IN THE CITY OF FLINT DURING THE ADMINISTRATION GOVERNOR RICK SNYDER THE GOVERNOR DURING THE FLINT WATER CRISIS.

I AM JUST WONDERING FROM YOUR STANDPOINT, NOW, WITH THE SMALL BUSINESS ASSOCIATION, HOW DO YOU FEEL FLINT HAS FARED IN SMALL BUSINESS DURING THE PANDEMIC AND COMING OUT OF THE PANDEMIC COMPARED TO THE REST OF THE STATE?

>> WELL, YOU KNOW, AS YOU LOOK AT DOWNTOWN AREAS IN GENERAL THAT INCLUDE FLINT, CERTAINLY, INCLUDES DETROIT, CITIES LIKE GRAND RAPIDS, AS WELL.

THE DOWNTOWN AREAS ARE THE AREAS THAT HAVE BEEN IMPACTED PERHAPS MORE SUBSTANTIALLY THAN ANYWHERE ELSE.

BUS EVEN THE BUSINESSES THAT WERE NOT TECHNICALLY RESTRICTED, THEIR MARKETS CHANGED, RATING.

YOU HAD THOUSANDS OF PEOPLE HIT THAT TO CITIES EVERY DAY FOR WORK UNDER THE NORMAL CIRCUMSTANCES WHEN THEY NOT DO THAT IT MEANT THAT THE GAS STATIONS AND THE RESTAURANTS AND THE DRY CLEANERS AND THE JANITORIAL SERVICE COMPANIES AND YOU KNOW, JUST ANY NUMBER OF BUSINESS AND AN ENTIRE ECOSYSTEM AROUND THEM THEIR MARKET WENT AWAY.

SO I THINK THAT AREA, THAT AREA, THAT CITIES IN PARTICULAR HAVE BEEN HIT HARDER AND LIKELY TO IN BUSINESSES IN CITIES THAT HAVE BEEN HIT HARD EARN LIKELY TO HAVE ALONG, LONG EXPERIENCE IN TERMS OF BUILDING IT BACK.

AND I HEARD, THEY HAVE BEEN THE BUSINESS FOR 25 YEARS AND FEEL LIKE THEY ARE BACK IN START-UP MODE RECENT ARE INVESTIGATE HOW THEY APPROACH THE BUSINESS AND WHAT THEY DO EVEN TO MAKE FUNDAMENTAL PARTED OF WHAT THEY DO MAY HAVE TO CHANGE AND THEIR MARKET HAS MOVED SO MAYBE THEY HAVE TO MOVE, SO I AM REALLY VERY CONCERNED ABOUT AREAS THAT HAVE A LOT OF OFFICE BUILDINGS AND THE IDEA OF SOME OF THOSE BEING HOWLED OUT AND WHAT THE IMPACT WILL BE OVERTIME.

I THINK THAT A LOT OF THIS, A LOT OF THE WORK AT THE FEDERAL LEVEL AND TALK ABOUT INFRASTRUCTURE AND THE THINGS THAT NEED TO HAPPEN, WELL, I THINK, THE FOCUS LOOKING AT FOR EXAMPLE.

THE HISTORIC TAX CREDIT HOW THAT HAS WORKED IN THE PAST.

LOOKING WHAT WE CAN DO OFFICE CONVERSE TO CHANGE THE OFFICE CONVERSE TO DIFFERENT, YOU KNOW, ASSETS INTO DIFFERENT TYPES OF PURPOSES AND THERE ARE SOME MODELS OUT THERE THAT ARE TRANSFORMED OBSOLETE BUILDINGS IN THE PAST IN A THINK, IT IS GOING TO COME TOLL THAT.

AND THE TYPE OF VAC CASE SAY THAT I EXPECT IN OUR FUTURE IN THE NEXT FEW YEARS.

>> WHAT DO YOU THINK OF THE CHARGES FROM THE STATE ATTORNEY GENERAL'S OFFICE AGAINST GOVERNOR SNYDER AND THE RIGHT HAN MAN?

>> WELL, I, WHAT DO I THINK OF THEM?

THEY HAVE NOT MADE PUBLIC ANY OF THE INFORMATION ABOUT THEM?

I MEAN, I DON'T, I AM NOT REALLY, I CANNOT UNDERSTAND WHY THEY, THEY WENT THAT DIRECTION, OF GRAND JURY AND HAVE KEPT ALL THE INFORMATION AND THE BASIS THEIR CHARGES PRIVATE.

YOU KNOW?

I CITY THIS, I DON'T THINK ANYONE CAN MAKE A CREDIBLE ASSESSMENT OF THE PROCESS.

THIS THEY MAKE THAT INFORMATION PUBLIC.

IN TERMS OF THE ACTUAL CHARGES, I DON'T, I DON'T BELIEVE THAT.

KNOW BOTH OF THOSE MEN KNOW THEM TO BE VERY, VERY HIGH INTEGRITY INDIVIDUALS.

I DON'T BELIEVE IT.

THERE HAS NOT BEEN ANY EVIDENCE PRESENTED IN A WAIT COULD BE EVALUATED.

DO YOU THINK THE CHARGES ARE POLITICALLY MOTIVATED, SIR?

>> YEAH.

I THINK THE OFFICE OF ATTORNEY GENERAL HAS BECOME INCREASINGLY POLITICAL JUST CYCLE BYE-BYE CYCLE BY STILL CYCLE.

IF I WERE TO POINT BACKWARD TO SAY, YOU KNOW, I WISHED SOMEBODY WOULD DO IT LIKE THIS.

YOU KNOW, ATTORNEY GENERAL AND IT WOULD BE FRANK KELLEY, YOU KNOW.

NOT THAT FRANK KELLEY NOT KNOW POLITICS BUT HE, I DON'T THINK HE USED THE OFFICE IN A WAY THAT SEEMS SO POLITICAL AND LIKE WE HAVE SEEN IN THE STRING OF ATTORNEY GENERAL'S SINCE HIM.

>> SO USING HER OFFICE FOR POLITICAL GAIN?

>> I AM NOT USING YOUR QUOTE, TIM, BUT FEEL FREEZE TO USE THE WITHIN I JUST SAID.

I HAVE BEEN DISAVOW THE WITHIN I TRIED TO GET TO YOU SAY.

THAT IS CORE RICK?

WILL SIT MAY W MY WORDS.

YOU CAN STICK WITH YOUR WORDS.

THANKS, SIR.

PRACTICS THE PIANO AND DO OVERTIME SECT AFTER BE SAY GOOD-BYE TO MR.HENDERSON WHO HAS TO PLAY.

WE'LL SHOW YOU CLOSE CREDITS AFTER THIS MORE WITH BRIAN CALLEY RIGHT HERE AT OTR.

SEE YOU RIGHT THERE.

PRODUCTION OF OFF THE RECORD IS MADE POSSIBLE IN PART BY THE FOLLOWING: BUSINESS LEADERS FROM MICHIGAN HAS A PLAN TO MAKE MICHIGAN THE TOP TEN STATE IN THE NATION FOR JOBS AND HEALTHY ECONOMY.

LEARN MORE AT MICHIGAN'S ROAD TO TOP TEN.COM.

FOR MORE OFF THE RECORD VISIT WKAR.

ORG.

MICHIGAN TELEVISION STATIONS HAVE BEEN TRIBUTED TO OFF THE RECORD WITH TIM SKUBICK ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪