♪ ♪ ♪ >> O'Connell: TONIGHT ON "GREATER BOSTON," I'M SUE O'CONNELL IN FOR JIM BRAUDE AND AHEAD, I'LL BE JOINED BY TWO LEADERS AT A DORCHESTER NON-PROFIT WITH A UNIQUE MODEL FOR TACKLING COMMUNITY VIOLENCE, BY PROVIDING SUPPORT AND MENTAL HEALTH SERVICES FOR GANG-INVOLVED YOUTH.

THEN, THE RETIREMENT OF "MATTY IN THE MORNING'S," MATT SIEGEL FROM KISS 108, AFTER 41 YEARS BEHIND THE MIC, MARKS A MAJOR CHANGE IN THE BOSTON-AREA RADIO LANDSCAPE.

ANOTHER AREA RADIO STAR, THE GREAT OEDIPUS, JOINS ME ON THAT.

♪♪ >> O'Connell: WHILE HOMICIDES AND SHOOTINGS HAVE BEEN ON THE RISE THROUGHOUT MUCH OF THE COUNTRY SINCE THE PANDEMIC BEGAN, IN BOSTON, THOSE RATES HAVE BEEN FALLING.

BUT THERE'S STILL A LOT OF WORK TO BE DONE, BECAUSE EVEN ONE SHOOTING OR DEATH IS ONE TOO MANY, WITH EACH RIPPING APART FAMILIES AND COMMUNITIES.

THAT'S WHY FOR THE PAST SEVERAL YEARS THE DORCHESTER-BASED NORCH PROFIT, URCH CORNERED, HAS WORKED TO SYMPTOM THOSE CYCLES OF VIOLENCE, BY REACHING OUT DIRECTLY TO CURRENT AND FORMER GANG MEMBERS AND AT-RISK YOUTH, AMONG OTHERS, TO PROVIDE THEM MENTORSHIP AND OTHER SUPPORT.

AMONG THE SERVICES OFFERED MORE RECENTLY: MENTAL HEALTH.

IN THE FALL OF 2020, BOSTON UNCORNERED HIRED ITS FIRST DIRECTOR OF MENTAL HEALTH SUPPORT, ELEANOR FORBES, WHO JOINS ME NOW-- ALONG WITH MARK CULLITON, CO-FOUNDER AND C.E.O.

OF BOSTON UNCORNERED.

WELCOME TO BOTH OF YOU.

THANKS FOR JOINING ME.

MARK I WANTED TO START WITH YOU BECAUSE IT DOESN'T SEEM LIKE A BIG STRETCH TO ME TO MAKE A CONNECTION BETWEEN MENTAL HEALTH AND SOLID MENTAL HEALTH AND A SAFE COMMUNITY.

WHEN YOU ARE TALKING ABOUT MERGE HEALTH AND REDUCING VIOLENCE WHAT ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT?

>> WELL, THERE'S JUST SO MUCH TRAUMA THAT THEN LEADS TO ACTIONS, THAT CREATE CYCLES OF VIOLENCE IN OUR COMMUNITY.

AND WHEN YOU'RE ENGAGED WITH THIS SMALL PERCENTAGE OF THE POPULATION, THAT'S ENGAGED IN GANG VIOLENCE, IT'S 2% OF THE POPULATION RESPONSIBLE FOR 75% OF THAT CRIME, THERE'S A LOT OF TRAUMA, BOTH EXISTING, PREEXISTING TRAUMA AND NEW TRAUMA THAT COMES WITH THE VIOLENCE THAT'S SEEN IN OUR COMMUNITIES.

AND SO GETTING TO THE ROOT OF THAT AND HAVING A WAY TO SUPPORT OUR STAFF, TO THEN SUPPORT THE YOUNG PEOPLE WHO ARE ACTIVE IN GANGS, IS CRITICAL TO THEIR BEING ABLE TO THINK DIFFERENTLY ABOUT THEIR LIVES AND CHOICES AND FUTURE.

>> O'Connell: ELEANOR I THINK THAT PRIOR TO COVID, YOU KNOW MOST AMERICANS HAVE ALWAYS THOUGHT ABOUT MENTAL HEALTH AS SOMETHING ORE HERE.

OUR BODIES ARE OVER HERE AND MENTAL HEALTH IS OVER HERE.

AND OBVIOUSLY, MENTAL HEALTH ADVOCATES DON'T LIKE IT WHEN YOU DRAW A LINE BETWEEN MENTAL HEALTH AND VIOLENCE BUT THE REALITY IS WE ALL ARE STRUGGLING WITH MENTAL HEALTH IN ONE WAY OR ANOTHER, AND UNFORTUNATELY SOMETIMES VINYLS IS VIOLENCE IS AFTERNOON OUTCOME OF THAT.

CAN YOU TALK ABOUT THE FACTORS THAT IMPACT SOMEONE'S MENTAL HEALTH?

>> WELL, FOR THE POPULATION WE WORK WITH WITH BOSTON UNCOARNTD, I THINK THE VOIRNLS THAT STRAIKS THEM THE MOST ARE THE TRAUMA OF PARENTHOOD, SUBSTANCE ABUSE ISSUES, ACTUALLY MAKE A LOT OF OUR CHILDREN ACTUALLY TURN TOWARDS LOOKING FOR A SYSTEM, THE GANG VIOLENCE THAT ARE OPEN AND READY TO RECEIVE THEM, WE DON'T REALIZE THAT THERE'S KIDS WHO ARE -- DIDN'T EAT YOU KNOW, NEED A WAY TO BE ABLE TO FIGURE OUT HOW TO PROVIDE FOR THEMSELVES BECAUSE THEY DON'T HAVE, YOU KNOW, THE NECESSARY SKILLS TO DO SO.

BECAUSE THEY HAVEN'T BEEN TAUGHT.

AND SO THESE ARE A LOT OF THE THINGS THAT WE REALLY LEAD TO OUR CHILDREN, AND THE POPULATION WE HAVE IN UNCORNERED.

WE LOOK AT THEIR TRAUMA AND IT'S A HUGE TRAUMA HISTORY.

>> O'Connell: MARK BEFORE WE GET INTO SOME OF THE DETAILS OF WHAT YOU'RE DOING IN THE MENTAL HEALTH SPACE, TALK TO ME ABOUT WHAT BOSTON UNCORNERED DOES JUST IN GENERAL.

>> YES, IT'S PRETTY SIMPLE.

IT'S THE IDEA THAT WE CAN ONLY TRULY UNLOCK THE POTENTIAL OF BOSTON BY ENDING GANG VIOLENCE, ENDING STREET VIOLENCE AND ONLY DO THAT BY ACTIVELY ENGAGING ACTIVE GANG MEMBERS AND GETTING THEM TO THINK DIFFERENTLY AND ACT DIFFERENTLY.

AND WE DO THAT BY HIRING FORMERLY GANG INVOLVED INDIVIDUALS FROM PARTICULAR NEIGHBORHOODS AND CREWS TRUSTING THEM TO ENGAGE THE MOST ACTIVE AND INFLUENTIAL MEMBERS OF ANY PARTICULAR SET.

AND THEN MEETING THEM, EXPECTING GREATNESS OF THEM THROUGH THE PATH FROM CORNER TO COLLEGE AND PROVIDING THEM AN OPPORTUNITY TO MAKE DIFFERENT CHOICES THROUGH A DIRECT STIPEND.

ALL OF THESE EVIDENCE-BASED PRACTICES THAT WORK INCREDIBLY WELL, AND WE JUST PROVIDE THE SCAFFOLD, AND WHAT'S BECOME INCREASINGLY CLEAR TIME AFTER TIME, YOU CAN'T DO ANY OF THAT UNTIL YOU'VE DEALT WITH YOUR UNDERLYING MENTAL HEALTH ISSUES THAT GET IN THE WAY OF SO MANY -- SO MUCH OF THE ABILITY TO TAKE ADVANTAGE OF OPPORTUNITIES IN FRONT OF YOU.

>> O'Connell: ELEANOR TALK TO US A BIT ABOUT THE YOU WAYS THIS MENTAL HEALTH INTERVENTION WOULD WORK SPECIFICALLY WITH THIS COMMUNITY AND THIS CONSTITUENCY.

>> WELT WHAT WE'VE DONE AT UNCORNERED IS FOUND AN UNCONVENTIONAL WAY TO MENTAL HEALTH, EVERYONE WANTS TO SAY THERE'S NOTHING WRONG HOWEVER WE FIGURED THAT WE WOULD JUST TAKE EVERYONE'S DAILY LIFE SKILLS TO HELP THEM UNDERSTAND THAT.

THERE ARE MENTAL HEALTH ISSUES AND THERE ARE MENTAL HEALTH CHALLENGES BUT WE LOOK AT THE LAG IN SKILLS AND WE LOOK ALONG WITH THE TOOL CALLED COLLABORATIVE PROBLEM SOLVING WITH STEWART ALBALON FROM MASS GENERAL AND WE USE THIS TOOL TO REALLY LOOK AT ALL OF OUR EX-GANG MESHES THAT COME TO US -- MEMBERS AND THE ONES THAT ARE STILL INVOLVED, WE LOOK AT YOUR LAGGING SKILLS IN ATTENTION WORK AND MEMORY, COGNITIVE FLEXIBILITY, SOCIAL-EMOTIONAL SKILLS AND EVEN SOCIAL THINKING.

AND, YOU KNOW, WE JUST MAKEL-SCENARIOS THAT MAKE THEM LAUGH TO KIND OF FEEL LIKE OKAY, WHERE IS THIS LADY GOING?

AND SO I ALWAYS TELL PEOPLE THE PANCAKE JOKE.

AND THE PANCAKE JOKE IS THAT WHEN YOUR SPOUSE OR YOUR PARTNER MAKES PANCAKES AND YOU KNOW YOU LIKE THOSE ROUND FLUFFY PANCAKES IS IT EASY, MEDIUM OR HARD FOR YOU TO TELL THEM, THESE ARE NOT THE PANCAKE THAT I LIKE?

AND WHEN THE CRAs SAY OH NOT IN MY HOUSE IT'S HARD OR THE STUDENT SAY OH NO WE CAN'T HAVE THAT CONVERSATION, I SAY THAT'S HARD FOR YOU.

AS WE TALK ABOUT HOW THAT WILL GET EASIER HOW CAN YOU COMMUNICATE TO SAY HOW YOU FEEL ABOUT THOSE PANCAKES AND HOW CAN YOU HELP THE OTHER PERSON THAT YOU'RE TALKING TO UNDERSTAND YOUR FEELINGS AND DIFFERENT THINGS LIKE THAT.

AND WHEN WE DO THAT, THEY ALL SIGN UP.

THEY SAY I WANT TO DO THAT.

AND I'M LIKE YEAH YOU DIDN'T KNOW THIS WAS THERAPY?

THEY'RE LIKE NO.

SO THIS HAS BEEN THE BIG THING ABOUT OUR SUCCESS WITH THESE EX-GANG MEMBERS THAT WE HIRE AND THOSE THAT ARE EVEN COMING IN, THEY FEEL LIKE THIS IS A FUN WAY TO DO NATURE YOU -- TO DO THERAPY WITHOUT FEELING THERE IS SOMETHING WRONG.

>> O'Connell: IN MY OWN PERSONAL LIFE I KNOW YOU DON'T DO AN INTERVENTION WITH AN INDIVIDUAL, IT'S USUALLY THE FAMILY INVOLVED.

I WAS RECENTLY INFORMED THAT BEING SNARKY IS NOT A WAY TO COMMUNICATE PROPERLY WITH WHAT I NEED.

I CAN GO BACK TO THE PANCAKES AND SEE IF I CAN WORK ON THAT BECAUSE I'M NOT SURE I CAN CHANGE AT THIS POINT.

BUT HOW ARE YOU WORKING WITH THE FOLKS AROUND THE PEOPLE YOU'RE WORKING WITH WITH THE FAMILIES AND THE COMMUNITIES?

BECAUSE MANY OF THESE FOLKS HAVE LIVED HERE FOR GENERATIONS, THEY DON'T WANT TO MOVE, THEY DON'T WANT TO GET OUT OF THEIR NEIGHBORHOODS.

THEY WANT TO STAY IN THEIR COMMUNITIES.

HOW ARE YOU WORKING WITH THE WHOLE THING?

>> I ALL SAY UNCONDITIONAL POSITIVE REGARD, LIKE PAUL ROGERS.

YOU HAVE TO WALK INTO THESE SETTINGS WITH AUTHENTICITY.

I'M A CHILD OF TRAUMA, FAMILY HISTORY OF TRAUMA, ABSENT FATHER, MOM WITH SUBSTANCE ISSUES THAT WAS IN HER PAST, SEEING GANG VIOLENCE I CAME HERE FROM PHILADELPHIA, CAME HERE TO BOSTON AND GOT UNCORNERED, AND THE BEST THING WITH THIS IS WORKING WITH THIS EX-GANG POPULATION AND EVEN WITH MY HUSBAND BEING AN EX GANG MEMBER AND SERVING TIME IN PRISON IT'S SO CLOSE TO HOME.

IT'S BEEN EASY TO DO IT WITH MY FAMILY, TRANSITION AND NAVIGATE MY SKILLS TO BE ABLE TO WORK WITH THE OTHER FAMILIES AT UNCORNERED.

>> O'Connell: MARK, LOTS OF FOLKS IN THE CITY, WE HAVE BEEN CELEBRATING IN SOME WAYS OUR LOWER THAN OTHER CITIES VIOLENCE RATES OVER THE PAST COUPLE OF YEARS BUT AS I SAID IN THE OPEN YOU KNOW ANY VIOLENCE IS TOO MUCH.

AND WE ARE SEEING AN UNTIC IN CERTAIN NEIGHBORHOODS.

SOMETIMES WHEN WE REPORT THESE NUMBERS WE'RE REPORTING THE WHOLE CITY BUT NOT LOOKING AT NEIGHBORHOODS.

LIKE MY NEIGHBORHOOD IN ROMPLEBURY THAT HAS ISSUES GOING ON ON A REGULAR BASIS.

WHAT IS YOUR TAKE ON HOW THE POLICE IN BOSTON ARE RESPONDING AND THE COMMUNITY SERVICES RESPONDING TO WHAT FOLKS ARE AFRAID MIGHT BE A LONG HOLT AND DANGEROUS SUMMER?

>> I THINK FUNDAMENTALLY WE'RE DOING BETTER THAN A LOT OF BASES BUT WE'RE NOT DOING ENOUGH.

AND THE POLICE HAVE THEIR JOBS TO DO.

AND AS HAS BEEN SHOWN THROUGHOUT THE COUNTRY, THAT THE POLICE DOING ENFORCEMENT MATTERS, BUT WE NEED TO INVEST HEAVILY IN PREVENTION AND ENGAGEMENT.

WE SHOULD BE THE FIRST UNCORNERED CITY IN THIS COUNTRY.

BY THAT I MEAN WE SHOULD END GANG VIOLENCE, STREET VIOLENCE.

WE CAN.

IT'S 175 SHOOTINGS A YEAR ABOUT, 50 HOMICIDES.

IN THIS VERY SMALL GROUP.

WE KNOW WHO THEY ARE, WE KNOW HOW TO GET TO THEM.

AND THEY WANT TO DO SOMETHING DIFFERENT.

WE NEED A UNIVERSAL COMMITMENT TO GET CLOSE TO, TO LOVE, TO BELIEVE IN, THIS POPULATION.

AND WHEN YOU DO, THEY CHANGE.

AND IT'S REALLY THE CORE BELIEF IS WHEN THEY CHANGE, OUR COMMUNITIES THRIVE IN A WAY THAT THEY'VE NEVER BEEN ABLE TO.

SO IT'S A CALL TO ACTION TO LET'S GET IT DONE.

AND LET'S GET OVER THAT CLIFF.

WE'VE BEEN REALLY SUCCESSFUL.

BUT WE'RE STUCK.

AND THAT WILL EITHER GO UP OR WE CAN COLLECTIVELY DECIDE WE'RE COMMITTED TO THESE YOUNG MEN AND WOMEN, THESE FAMILIES, AND WE CAN GET TO ZERO.

>> O'Connell: ELEANOR DO YOU FEEL THERE'S BEEN A SHIFT?

I KNOW WE'VE TALKED A LOT ABOUT RACIAL INEQUITY AND RACIAL JUSTICE ISSUES WITH THE POLICE DEPARTMENT.

WHERE THE MONEY IS SPENT FOR POLICE DEPARTMENTS.

BUT I MEAN I'VE BEEN TALKING TO POLICE IN MY FAMILY AND IN MY WHOLE LIFE WHO ALWAYS SAY WE NEED MORE HELP DEALING WITH ISSUES THAT ARE BEYOND OUR SCOPE.

YOU KNOW, I DIDN'T DECIDE TO BECOME A POLICE OFFICER TO BECOME A SOCIAL WORKER.

WE NEED MORE HELP ON THAT FRONT.

AND, YOU KNOW, EVEN THOUGH IT'S STILL A HOT TOPIC, I PEOPLE LIKE WE'VE TURNED A CORNER AND PEOPLE ARE BEGINNING TO UNDERSTAND THAT AN INTERVENTION WITH A FAMILY IS A STEP TO MAKE SURE A CRIME DOESN'T BECOME COMMITTED OR THEY BECOME A VICTIM WITH A CRIME AND IT KEEPS POLICE FROM HAVING TO DEAL WITH THAT.

ARE YOU FEELGT THAT TOO OR IS IT MY CRAZY SPRING OPTIMISM THAT IS SEEMING IN?

-- SEEPING IN?

>> I'D SAY HALF AND HALF.

PEOPLE HAVE TO BE VULNERABLE TO BE ABLE TO ASK FOR HELP.

THEY HAVE TO BE VULNERABLE ENOUGH TO MAKE SURE THERE'S AN ISSUE AND RIGHT NOW AS THE ROLE THAT I PLAY, IT'S REALLY BUSY THAT PARENTS ARE UNDER A LOT OF STRESS, AND WITH THIS PANDEMIC, THEY'RE FEARFUL TO ASK FOR HELP.

AND EVEN NOW AS WE TALK ABOUT THE DISPARITIES, THERE IS NOT ENOUGH CLINICIANS OR HELP OUT THERE FOR THOSE INDIVIDUALS.

ESPECIALLY WHEN PEOPLE WANT SOMEONE WHO LOOKS LIKE THEM AND UNDERSTAND THEM.

THAT'S OBIG THING FOR US RIGHT NOW.

WE DON'T HAVE THE CAPACITY TO MEET THE NEED.

AND SO, YOU KNOW, I WOULD JUST SAY DEFINITELY IF PARENTS GET INVOLVED, IF PARENTS' EYES ARE OPEN AND THEY FEEL THAT CONFIDENCE TO BE ABLE TO MOVE BEYOND THE GUILT AND THE SHAME AND TO BE ABLE TO SAY, I WILL ASK SOMEBODY FOR HELP.

THAT'S THE BEGINNING STEP TO HELPING US OUT BUT IT WOULD DEFINITELY HAVE AN IMPACT AS MARK SAID, HAVE AN IMPACT ON US AND HELP THEM BECOME UNCORNERED AND KNOW THERE IS RESOURCES OUT THERE FOR THEM.

>> O'Connell: MENTOR TO MEN MENTEE, IF FOLKS WANT MORE INFORMATION ABOUT BOSTON UNCORNERED, WHERE DO THEY GO?

>> GO TO BOCHTUNCORNERED.ORG, COME SEE US, COME SEE THE GREAT WORK THAT'S BEING DONE AND AS ALWAYS, IF YOU WANT TO DONATE, WE'LL TAKE IT.

YOU KNOW, WE'RE EXCITED ABOUT THE WORK THAT'S DONE BUT WE KNOW THAT ANY MURDER IS TOO MUCH.

ONE TOO MANY.

>> O'Connell: THANK YOU BOTH FOR JOINING ME.

ELEANOR FOASHES, MARK CULLITON, THANKS.

>> THANKS SO MUCH FOR HAVING US.

>> O'Connell: WELL, APPARENTLY THERE IS ONLY ROOM FOR ONE SIEGEL IN THE BOSTON RADIO MARKET.

BECAUSE A FEW SHORT MONTHS AFTER PARIS ALSTON AND JEREMY SIEGEL LAUNCHED THE NEW "MORNING EDITION" HERE ON 89.7 GBH RADIO, MATT SIEGEL-- BETTER KNOWN AS "MATTY IN THE MORNING"--ANNOUNCED HIS RETIREMENT, AFTER 41 YEARS AT THE HELM OF KISS 108'S POPULAR MORNING SHOW.

SIEGEL SAYS HE PLANS TO FOCUS ON FAMILY, AND HIS NEW LIFE AS "MEDIOCRE GOLFER."

BUT LOOK, THAT'S A MAJOR CHANGE FOR THE BOSTON RADIO LANDSCAPE AND LISTENERS WHO'VE RELIABLY TUNED INTO THE SHOW FOR DECADES.

JOINING ME TO DISCUSS IS ANOTHER ICONIC BOSTON RADIO PERSONALITY, MASSACHUSETTS BROADCASTERS HALL OF FAMER, OEDIPUS, WHO HAD HIS OWN CULT-LIKE FOLLOWING FOR DECADES ON WBCN AND NOW HOSTS "THE OEDIPUS PROJECT" WEB SITE.

WHAT WAS YOUR REACTION WHEN MATTY FINALLY GAVE UP THE GHOST AND FINALLY RETIRED EARLIER THIS WEEK?

>> IT'S AN END OF AN ERA, AND NOT JUST MATTY SEGAL'S ERA, THE ERA OF A GREAT RADIO PERSONALIT IN THE MUSIC SCENE IN BOSTON, WE HAVE NO MORE.

HE CONTINUED FROM LAST CENTURY TO THIS CENTURY AND IT'S OVER.

THERE ARE NO MORE GREAT MUSIC RADIO PERSONALITIES, ON BOSTON RADIO.

WE HAVE RADIO PERSONALITIES BUT THEY'RE ON TALK.

LIKE JIM AND MARJORIE, FOR INSTANCE OR THEY'RE ON SPORTS.

BUT MUSIC IS ALL OVER.

>> O'Connell: IT'S AMAZING TO ME.

MY DAUGHTER IS 21 NOW AND SHE DIDN'T REALLY EVEN START LISTENING TO THE RADIO IN THE SHE WAS 16.

AND SHE WAS -- UNTIL SHE WAS 16 AND THAT'S WHILE WE WERE IN THE CAR, AND SHE WAS APPALLED HOW MUCH COMMERCIALS THERE WERE, AND SHE GETS TO FOR PERSONALITIES SHE GETS THEM FROM YOUTUBE OR INSTAGRAM OR TIKTOK.

AND IT SEEMS LIKE SUCH A SPARATION OF MUSIC AND PERSONALITY, AS YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT WHICH I NEVER THOUGHT WAS POSSIBLE.

WHAT DOES THIS MEAN?

IS THIS GOOD FOR MUSIC THAT IT'S KIND OF ON ITS OWN AND PERSONALITY OVER HERE OR DO YOU THINK WE'LL SEE A SWING BACK SOME DAY?

>> IT'S GREAT FOR MUSIC.

FOR RADIO IT'S NOT GOOD AT ALL.

MATTY WAS SUCCESSFUL BECAUSE HE WAS NOT ONLY AGREAT PERSONALITY.

HE WAS FUNNY, CHARMING, HE WAS YOUR BUDDY, YOU GOT TO KNOW MATTY.

YOU FOUND A KINSHIP WITH HIM.

WE DON'T CULTIVATE THAT ANYMORE IN RADIO, IT'S SIMPLY NOT DONE.

IN 1996 WHEN COMPANIES COULD OWN MORE THAN ONE STATION, THEY KEPT BUYING STATIONS AND BUYING STATIONS SO THEY DIDN'T CULTIVATE AND TRAIN THE TALENT FOR THE NEXT MORNING SHOW.

I WOULD IMAGINE IN THE FUTURE, KISS 108 WILL HAVE A SYNDICATED MORNING SHOW, PROBABLY OUT OF NEW YORK, MAYBE OUT OF L.A.

THEY JUST DON'T TRAIN PEOPLE ANY LONGER OVERNIGHTS TO BE GREAT DJ'S AND THEN TO TAKE OVER THE MORNINGS.

IT IS NO LONGER HAPPENING.

>> OConnell: IT'S HARD TO EXPLAIN TO FOLK WHO MAY NOT KNOW.

YOU WOULD START AS AN INTERN AS I DID AND THEN WOULD YOU WORK THE OVERNIGHT SHIFT OR WEEKEND SHIFT AROUND THEN IF YOU WERE ABLE TO DO THAT YOU MIGHT MOVE ON TO BE ABLE TO BE A PRODUCER AND WORK WITH A DAYTIME PERSONALITY AND MAYBE IF YOU WERE LUCKY YOU WOULD GET YOUR OWN SHIFT AND WOULD TAKE OFF OR NOT FROM THERE.

BUT EVERYBODY OF A CERTAIN GENERATION HAD THEIR FAVORITES THAT THEY LISTENED TO.

YOU KNOW THE OTHER CHALLENGE I'VE BEEN SAYING TO FOLKS WHO HAVE ASKED ME THAT MATTY HAS BEEN THE SAME SINCE I MET HIM IN 1982.

HE WASN'T A CRANKY OLD MAN, HE WAS A CRANKY YOUNG MAN AND THEN HE BECAME AN OLD MAN.

DO YOU THINK THE DYNAMIC OF WHERE WE ARE WITH IMMEDIATE RESPONSE, EVERYBODY HAS A BROADCAST STATION ON TWITTER RIGHT?

YOU HAVE AN OPINION CAN YOU BLAST IT OUT THERE.

DO YOU THINK IT MADE IT MORE DIFFICULT TO BE MATTY IN THE WAY HE WAS, OR DO YOU THINK HE MADE AN EFFORT, I KNOW HE WOULDN'T BE ABLE TO, TO CHANGE A LIGETY LITTLE BIT TO ADAPT TO THE CURRENT FLOW OF HOW PEOPLE REACT TO YOU?

>> MATTY WAS MATTY.

HE WAS AT DCN FOR A WHILE, THEN HE WENT OFF TO TRY TO MAKE IT IN TELEVISION, AND THEN HE FOUND HIS PERFECT PERFECT SPOT AT KISS 108 AND HE BECAME A LEGEND.

THOSE DAYS ARE OVER.

YOU CAN NO LONGER WORK AT A COLLEGE RADIO STATION AND HOPE TO BE HIRED LIKE YOU SAID OVERNIGHT OR PART TIME AT A RADIO STATION AND THEN DEVELOP YOUR TALENT AND THEN SUDDENLY SOMEONE WILL SAY HEY DO YOU WANT TO DO MORNING DRIVE?

IT'S NOT GOING TO HAPPEN ANYMORE, NOT ON MUSIC RADIO ANYMORE.

>> O'Connell: SO MATTY IS GOING TO GO ON AND CONTINUE TO GOLF, I IMAGINE WE'LL SEE A PODCAST FROM MATTY, HE LOVES TO DO WILBUR THEATER, HE IS A WORKHORSE AND DEDICATED TO IT.

ARE WE JUST GOING TO END UP WITH RADIO THAT ALL SOUNDS THE SAME, FROM MARKET TO MARKET, FROM PLACE TO PLACE?

AND WHAT'S THE IMPACT, HOW ARE AUDIENCES GOING TO -- HOW ARE WE GOING TO, REGIONS GOING TO HAVE THEIR OWN DISTINCT PERSONALITY IF RADIO SOUNDS THE SAME IN ATLANTA AS IT DOES IN BOSTON?

>> IT DOES.

YOU HEAR THE SAME RADIO PERSONALITIES AND SONGS ON MUSIC RADIO AS I MENTIONED, THE PERSONALITIES ARE ON TALK RADIO OR SPORTS RADIO.

YOU DON'T HEAR IT ON MUSIC RADIO ANYMORE.

I HEART OWNS OVER A THOUSAND RADIO STATIONS.

SO IT'S COST EFFECTIVE TO HAVE CERTAIN DJ'S JUST VOICE TRACK AND JUST PRETEND THAT THEY ARE IN ATLANTA OR BOSTON OR NEW YORK OR CHICAGO.

>> O'Connell: IS ANYBODY LIKE MATTY ACROSS THE COUNTRY?

I KNOW THERE'S BEEN SOME LONG RUNNING MUSIC DJ'S AND FERNLTS.

BUT HE IS A BIT OF A MAJOR LEGEND IN HIS LONGEVITY IN ONE RADIO STATION IN ONE MORNING SHOW.

>> THERE ARE SOME MAJOR PERSONALITIES ACROSS THE COUNTRY LIKE RYAN SEACREST FOR INSTANCE BUT WHAT'S GREAT ABOUT MATTY IS HE WAS BOSTON, HE WAS OURS, HE KNEW THE STREETS, KNEW HOW TO PRONOUNCE THE NAMES OF THE CITIES AND HE KNEW THE PLAYERS AND HAD THE PLAYERS ON HIS RADIO STATION.

HE WAS JUST A TERRIFIC, TERRIFIC BROADCASTER, HE WAS QUICK, HE WAS FUNNY AND HE'S GOING TO BE MISSED BUT AS I MENTIONED THIS IS IT, IT'S OVER, WE DON'T HAVE THAT ANYMORE AND IT'S NOT GOING TO HAPPEN.

THE ONLY HOPE THAT WE HAVE, YOU AND I SUE, IS THAT EVENTUALLY ONE OF THESE RADIO STATIONS WILL JUST NOT BE GENERATING THE REVENUE AND ONCE AGAIN THEY WILL LET THE INMATES TAKING OVER THE ASYLUM AND LIKE THE DAYS OF 1968 THESE PEOPLE HAD A PASSION FOR MUSIC.

THEY HAD A PACKS FOR THE CULTURE AND THEY CREATED A GREAT, GREAT RADIO STATION IN 1968 AND IT LASTED UNTIL 2009 WHEN ONCE AGAIN THE SUITS DECIDED AH, WE DON'T WANT TO DEAL WITH THIS ANYMORE.

AND MUSIC WE CAN JUST SWITCH IT ALL UP AND PUT A NICE SPORTS STAGE ON WHICH THEY DID.

IT'S A GREAT SPORTS STATION BUT WE DON'T HAVE THAT GREAT MUSIC STATION, THAT CULTURALLY ATTRACTIVE STATION THAT IS BOSTON.

NOW AS YOU MENTIONED IT'S ALL ON THE INTERNET.

YOU FIND IT ON THE INTERNET.

IT'S ALL, THERE'S ONLY NICHES HERE AND THERE.

>> O'Connell: DO YOU THINK THERE'S GOING TO BE A DEMAND FOR IT?

THIS IS THE THING I THINK ON A REGULAR BASIS IS HOW SMALL THE WORLD HAS BECOME IN THAT YOU CAN ACCESS ALMOST ANY TYPE OF CULTURE FROM YOUR COUCH.

RIGHT?

YOU CAN IF YOU WANT TO LISTEN TO MUSIC IN SWITS LARND SWITZERLAND YOU CAN HEAR THAT, IF YOU WANT A MUSIC STATION IN ETHIOPIA YOU CAN ACCESS THAT.

WONDERFUL FOR SHARING IDEAS BUT WHEN IT COMES TO CULTURAL IDENTITY WHICH HAS ITS GOOD AND BAD SIDES BUT WHEN IT'S PRIDE FROM BEING FROM SOMEWHERE, WHAT ARE OUR TOUCHSTONES THAT HELP US IDENTIFY?

YOU CAN GO ON A TRIP SOMEWHERE AND MENTION OEDIPUS OR MENTION MATTY SEGAL AND EVERYBODY KNOWS IMMEDIATELY YOU'RE IN BOSTON.

WHAT IS OUR CULTURAL OURSELVES NOW?

>> BESIDES THAT WE KNOW THE FLAIRS IN POLITICS.

ELIZABETH WARREN, SHE'S KNOWN AROUND THE COUNTRY, AROUND THE WORLD.

>> O'Connell: BUT IT'S NOT FUN.

FUN FOR ME GUT NOT A GREAT WAY TO OPEN THE CONVERSATION AT A TIKI BAR SOMEWHERE.

>> NOW THE MEANS OF DISTRIBUTION HAVE DISSOLVED.

YOU NO LONGER HAVE TO BE ON A MAJOR RECORD LABEL TO HAVE YOUR MUSIC HEARD.

SO THERE'S LOTS OF OPPORTUNITIES TO SHARE YOUR MUSIC ACROSS THE WORLD AND YOU CAN GENERATE A FAN BASE AND A FOLLOWING.

HOWEVER, THERE'S GOING TO BE VERY FEW SUPERSTARS ANYMORE.

VERY FEW PEOPLE THAT CAN SELL MILLIONS AND MILLIONS AND MILLIONS OF RECORDS OR HAVE BILLIONS OF STREAMS.

THERE ARE SOME.

THERE ARE SOME BUT, IT'S NOT LIKE IT USED TO BE WHERE THERE WAS AN ARTIST THAT YOU COULD NAME AND EVERYBODY KNEW THAT ARTIST.

I THINK THE LAST ARTIST EVERYBODY KNOWS WOULD BE ADELLE MOST PEOPLE KNOW WHO ADELLE IS.

BUT DOES EVERYBODY KNOW ADOJA CAT, WE ALL KNOW U-2, ALL KNOW ROLLING STONES BUT THINK OF THE NEW POPULAR ARTISTS THAT MANY PEOPLE HAVE NEVER HEARD OF AND THEY'RE TERRIFIC.

>> O'Connell: IS THIS A REALISTIC VIEW IS THIS A PESSIMISTIC VIEW, IS THIS AN OPTIMISTIC VIEW, ARE YOU SORT OF LOOKING OUT AND SAYING THIS IS HOW IT IS AND WE'RE GOING TO HAVE TO DEAL WITH IT OR ARE YOU HOPING THAT IT TURNS INTO SOMETHING A BIT MORE MAGICAL THAN IT FEELS LIKE RIGHT NOW?

>> THIS IS THE WAY IT IS.

AND IT'S NOT GOING TO CHANGE.

THERE ARE 60,000 SONGS UPLOADED ON SPOTIFY EVERY DAY.

THINK ABOUT IT.

WE'RE GOING TO HAVE MORE AND MORE MUSIC AND MORE AND MORE NICHES.

YOU CAN FIND THIS MUSIC EVERYWHERE AND THERE'S NO MORE REQUESTS.

AS SOON AS YOU HEAR A SONG ANYWHERE YOU CAN PULL IT RIGHT UP ON YOUR PHONE.

FURTHERMORE, PEOPLE'S ATTENTIONS, THEY MIGHT BE PLAYING VIDEO GAMES, THEY MIGHT BE WATCHING A MOVIE, THEY MIGHT BE ON THEIR PHONES, THEY COULD BE WATCHING A SERIES.

SO RADIO'S IN FOR A VERY DIFFICULT TIME BECAUSE THEY HAVE COMMERCIALS.

WE'RE TALKING COMMERCIAL RIGHT HERE OF COURSE BECAUSE PEOPLE AREN'T GOING TO SIT THROUGH THAT ANYMORE.

UNLESS THERE IS A MAJOR PERSONALITY AND THE STATION IS SO DYNAMIC, SO EXCITING THAT YOU DON'T MIND SITTING THROUGH IT AT ALL.

YOU DIDN'T MIND SITTING THROUGH IT BECAUSE YOU WANTED TO HEAR WHAT MATTY HAD TO SAY, WHAT CHARLES HAD TO SAY.

YOU WADED THROUGH COMMERCIALS AND SOMETIMES THEY WERE FUN.

>> O'Connell: MATTY AND CLARLS JUSTIFIED TO CALL EACH OTHER, WHEN THEY WERE ON TOGETHER.

IF WE COULD GO BACK IN TIME AS MATTY SEEINGAL STARTED HIS RADIO CAREER, WE SAID TO YOUNG MATT SEGAL, IN 40 YEARS YOU ARE GOING TO RETIRE AND IT'S GOING TO BE AN END OF A AN E EAR A, YOU ARE GOING TO ARE CARRYING PERSONALITY RADIO OFF INTO THE DISTANCE.

DO YOU THINK HE UNDERSTANDS?

>> I HAVEN'T SEEN MATTY FOR A LONG TIME.

I WISH HE WOULD CONTACT ME AND TAKE ME GOLFING.

SOAJ>> O'Connell: YOU HAVE BEEN GOLFING LONGER THAN HIM.

>> I KNOW I'M NOT GOING TO SHOW HIM.

>> O'Connell: DO YOU THINK THIS IS SHOCKING THAT PEOPLE ARE LOOKING AT THIS AS THE END OF AN ERA AND IT'S NOT MATT JUST RETIRING?

>> I THINK HE IS OVERWHELMED WITH THE OUTPOURING OF LOVE AND WHAT HE'S MEANT TO THE CITY, NO DOUBT ABOUT THAT.

I'M CERTAIN HE'S AFFECTED BY THAT BUT IT HAS TO END SOMETIME AND I'M GLAD HE WALKED AWAY INSTEAD OF JUST I'M GLAD THIS IS NOT A MEMORIAL.

>> O'Connell: AOL HE DID ASK ME TO GIVE HIS EULOGY OSO I DON'T KNOW IF HE REMEMBERS BUT MAYBE HE'LL MAKE THIS.

OEDIPUS I APPRECIATE SEEING YOU, I APPRECIATE YOUR WISDOM ON THIS AND I LOOK FORWARD TO SPENDING MORE TIME WITH YOU IN THE FUTURE SOMETIMES.

AND IRL AS THE KIDS SAY.

>> WE'VE HAD SOME GOOD TIMES SUE AND WE'RE GOING TO HAVE MORE.

>> O'Connell: I HOPE SO!

THAT WILL BE ANOTHER SHOW.

WE'LL DO ANOTHER EDDIE AND SUSIE TELL THE REAL TALES.

ALL RIGHT THANKS SO MUCH FOR JOINING ME OEDIPUS.

>> YOU'RE WELCOME.

>> O'Connell: THAT'S IT TONIGHT.

COME BACK TOMORROW FOR THE DEBATE OVER MEDICAL AID IN DYING, WITH A CASE BEFORE THE STATE'S HIGHEST COURT, MULTIPLE BILLS BEFORE THE LEGISLATURE, AND A LOT OF STRONG FEELINGS ON ALL SIDES OF THE ISSUE.

THAT'S TOMORROW AT 7:00.

FOR NOW, THANKS FOR WATCHING AND GOOD NIGHT.

♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ Captioned by Media Access Group at WGBH access.wgbh.org