>>> THE FINAL BUDGET NEGOTIATIONS UNDER WAY.

PAID FAMILY AND MEDICAL LEAVE IS OUT, AND A COMPROMISE EMERGES OVER ACT 250, AND SUDDENLY, IMPEACHMENT PROCEEDINGS AGAINST TWO LAW ENFORCEMENT OFFICERS TO CONSIDER AS WELL.

>> THERE WERE DOZENS OF INCIDENTS REPORTED.

>> I WONDER IF ANYONE THOUGHT TO ASK THESE EMPLOYEES WHO WERE SUPPOSEDLY SO UPSET WITH ME IF THEY WOULD LIKE ME TO LEAVE.

>> THE FRANKLIN COUNTY PROSECUTOR ACCUSED OF STUNNING MISCONDUCT, AND TRIES TO BLOW IT OFF.

YES, AN UNUSUAL WEEK AT THE STATE HOUSE ON THE ROAD TO ADJOURNMENT, ALL AHEAD ON "VERMONT THIS WEEK."

>> FROM THE VERMONT PUBLIC STUDIO IN WINOOSKI, THIS IS "VERMONT THIS WEEK" MADE POSSIBLE BY THE LINDOLAC FOUNDATION AND MILL TRAVEL.

HERE IS MODERATOR STEWART LEDBETTER.

>> WELCOME, EVERYONE.

I'M STEWART LEDBETTER.

THANK YOU FOR BEING HERE.

IT'S FRIDAY, MAY 5th, 2023, AND AROUND OUR TABLE, WE HAVE TIM McQUISTON, THE EDITOR OF "VERMONT BUSINESS MAGAZINE".

FROM MONTPELIER, PETER HIRSCHFIELD, STATE HOUSE REPORTER WITH "VERMONT PUBLIC" AND ALICIA FREESE IS BACK.

SHE'S THE DEPUTY MANAGING EDDER HAVE AT "VT DIGGER."

IT'S BEEN A FEW YEARS.

WELCOME BACK.

THANKS TO ALL OF YOU FOR BEING HERE ON WHAT MAI BE THE PENULTIMATE WEEK OF THE SESSION.

AS WE SET OFF THE BUDGET TALKS BETWEEN THE HOUSE AND SENATE ARE UNDER WAY.

THERE HAVE BEEN A NUMBER OF DEVELOPMENTS THROUGH THE COURSE OF THE WEEK, BUT THE GOVERNOR WAS TRYING AGAIN TO PUSH BACK AGAINST WHAT HE SEES AS OVERSPENDING AND NEEDLESS TAX INCREASES, AND HE DOES SO AGAINST SORT OF A BACKDROP OF REVENUES WHICH SUDDENLY MIGHT NOT BE AS ROSY AS WE'VE BEEN ACCUSTOMED TO.

PETE, GET US UP TO DATE FIRST.

WHERE DO YOU SENSE WE STAND ON THIS FRIDAY?

>> SO PAID LEAVE, A BIG ISSUE THROUGHOUT THE SESSION, THAT'S OFF THE TABLE NOW BECAUSE THE HOUSE HAS DECIDED IT IS NOT GOING TO TRY TO BARREL THROUGH THE SENATE'S RELUCTANCE TO MOVE THAT THIS YEAR.

THE BUDGET FROM WHAT I'M HEARING IS PRETTY WELL BUTTONED UP, STILL IN CONFERENCE COMMITTEE AND OF COURSE THEY WON'T VOTE THAT ITEM UNTIL NEXT WEEK BECAUSE THEY HOLD ONTO THE BUDGET UNTIL THE VERY LAST MOMENT.

ONE AREA WHERE A LOT OF ENERGY IS GOING INTO RIGHT NOW IS THE CHILD CARE BILL.

THERE IS CONSENSUS IN BOTH THE HOUSE AND THE SENATE THAT THEY WANT THIS TO BE A SIGNATURE PIECE OF LEGISLATION.

THEY'RE TALKING SPENDING IN EXCESS OF $150 MILLION A YEAR TO INCREASE CHILD CARE SUBSIDIES, BOOST WAGES FOR CHILD CARE WORKERS AND EARLY EDUCATION WORKERS BUT THEY REMAIN AT ODDS AT THIS MOMENT OVER HOW TO FINANCE THAT SPENDING PACKAGE.

THERE'S A LOT OF FOLKS -- WELL, ACTUALLY, THERE IS A SMALL NUMBER OF PEOPLE WORKING ON THAT RIGHT NOW ON BEHALF OF BOTH CHANGES.

THEIR SENSE IS THEY'LL NEED TO HAVE A COMPROMISE BY MONDAY IF THIS THING IS GOING TO MAKE IT OVER THE FINISH LINE BEFORE MAY 12th ADJOURNMENT SO SOMETHING TO KEEP YOUR EYES OUT FOR NEXT WEEK.

>> HOW DOES THE FIGURE THAT YOU JUST MENTIONED DIFFER FROM WHAT THE GOVERNOR HAS PROPOSED, THE $56 MILLION IN NEW CHILD CARE SPENDING?

>> WELL, PUT PLAINLY, IT'S MORE, STEWART, AND CONSIDERABLY MORE.

I THINK WHAT WE'RE SEEING AT ITS CORE IS A DISAGREEMENT BETWEEN THE GOVERNOR AND DEMOCRATIC L LAWMAKERS OF WHAT IT MEANS TO LIVE WITHIN YOUR MEANS.

GOVERNOR SCOTT HAS USED THAT AS HIS MANTRA, THE STATE NEEDS TO LIVE WITHIN HIS MEANS.

THE REVENUES ARRIVING TO STATE GOVERNMENT WITHIN THE CONTEXT OF THE CURRENT TAX AND FEE STRUCTURE THAT WE HAVE IN THIS STATE, LAWMAKERS SAY WE HAVE MEANS BEYOND THAT, THAT THERE ARE BUSINESSES, THERE ARE VERMONTERS WHO CAN AFFORD TO PAY MORE IN TAXES AND WHO IN FACT WOULD APPRECIATE THE TRADEOFF OF SPENDING MORE EITHER IN INCOME OR PAYROLL TAXES IF THEY KNEW THAT THAT MONEY WAS GOING TO FUND A ROBUST CHILD CARE SYSTEM THAT PROVIDED ACCESSIBLE, AFFORDABLE SLOTS TO EVERY FAMILY THAT NEEDS THEM.

THAT'S THE FUNDAMENTAL DISAGREEMENT BETWEEN THE TWO RIGHT NOW AND IT LOOKS LIKE THE HOUSE AND THE SENATE ARE CHARTING THEIR OWN COURSE ON THIS.

I DON'T GET THE SENSE THERE'S A LOT OF BACK-AND-FORTH AT THE EXECUTIVE BRANCH OF WHAT THE CHILD CARE PACKAGE SHOULD LOOK LIKE.

>> IT MIGHT HAVE BEEN YOU, PETE, WHO ASKED THE GOVERNOR IN HIS BRIEFING ON WEDNESDAY WHETHER HE WAS PART OF THE NEGOTIATIONS AND SPECIFICALLY WHY HE WAS SO ADAMANT AGAINST ANY NEW PAYROLL TAX.

HERE'S WHAT HE HAD TO SAY.

>> IT'S HARD TO COMMUNICATE TO VERMONTERS AS TO WHY WE'RE RAISING TAX AND FEES.

IT DOESN'T MAKE SENSE TO THEM AND IT DOESN'T MAKE SENSE TO ME EITHER.

SO I THINK THERE'S ANOTHER PATH FORWARD BUT WE'LL SEE HOW THE NEGOTIATIONS, IF THERE ARE NEGOTIATIONS, HOW WELL THEY GO.

>> AT THE SAME TIME, THE ADMINISTRATION SECRETARY HAS BEEN COMMUNICATING WITH THE HOUSE AND SENATE CONFERREES, THAT GROUP OF SIX THAT HAMMERS OUT A FINAL BUDGET PACKAGE AND SORT OF WARNS THEM ABOUT APRIL REVENUES, PARTICULARLY PERSONL INCOME TAX RECEIPTS.

ONE OF THE STRONGEST INDICATORS, SHE WROTE THE COMMITTEE, OF GENERAL ECONOMIC CONDITIONS FOR VERMONTERS AND YET P.I.

REVENUES COME IN OVER $43 MILLION BELOW THE APRIL FORECAST, AND IS WARNING THE ECONOMIC CONDITIONS IN VERMONT MAY ALREADY BE SLOWING DOWN.

HOW DOES THAT LOOK TO YOU, TIM?

IS THAT -- I MEAN, THIS IS -- IT'S A TIME OF YEAR IN WHICH PEOPLE ARE FILING AND TYPICALLY WE MIGHT WAIT A MONTH OR TWO BEFORE WE REALLY KNOW WHAT'S GOING ON.

>> WELL, HER COMMENTS SUGGESTS THAT SHE ALREADY KNOWS HOW THEY'RE COMING IN.

THIS WOULD BE IF APRIL CAME IN THAT LOW, IT WOULD BE THE THIRD MONTH IN A ROW, WHICH MEAN DURING THIS SORT OF FUNNY SEASON, WHEN PEOPLE HAVE RETURNS AND REFUNDS AND ALL THAT KIND OF STUFF, THIS WOULD BE VERY UNUSUAL FOR IT TO BE THIS BAD, EVEN AT THIS TIME OF YEAR.

USUALLY I TRY AND WAIT UNTIL WE GET THE MAY NUMBERS IN TO SEE HOW IT'S GOING, BUT THAT WOULD NOT BE GOOD.

RIGHT NOW, WE'RE RUNNING AHEAD OF COURSE THAN THE EXPECTATIONS IS TO INCREASE TWICE OVER THE LAST YEAR, BUT THAT WAS VERY CONCERNING.

IT'S A LITTLE DIFFERENT FROM WHAT THE GOVERNOR SAID.

PETE WAS AT THAT PRESS CONFERENCE AND HE SAID, WELL, WE HAVE $200 MILLION IN SURPLUS, SO WHY SHOULD WE BE RAISING TAXES AT THIS POINT?

IT'S LIKE WELL, WAIT A MINUTE.

YOUR ADMINISTRATION SECRETARY JUST SAID WE'RE ABOUT TO LOSE A QUARTER OF THAT MONEY.

THE OTHER THING THAT, YOU KNOW, PETE WAS REALLY PRESSING HIM ON THE CHILD CARE THING, AND I ASKED HIM, WELL, YOU KNOW, CHILD CARE IS ONE OF THE BIG THREE IMPEDIMENTS TO ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT, IF YOU ASK BUSINESSPEOPLE, IF YOU ASK DEVELOPMENT OFFICIALS AND ALONG WITH HOUSING AND WORKFORCE, AS WE ALL KNOW, WE'VE TALKED ABOUT HOUSING AND WORKFORCE A AAD N NAUSEAM.

THEY MIGHT SAY LET'S FIND A SOLUTION TO THIS CHILD CARE THING, EVEN IF IT DOES COST US MORE.

I THINK THAT'S WHAT THEY MIGHT SAY, BUT EVERYBODY KNOWS THE ECONOMY'S GETTING A LITTLE LOOSER.

THERE'S NO QUESTION ABOUT THAT.

THE ONE CURIOUS THING ABOUT THE PERSONAL INCOME TAX REVENUES IS, EMPLOYMENT IS STILL REALLY, REALLY HIGH.

HISTORICALLY HIGH BOTH IN VERMONT AND NATIONALLY, AND SO THAT WOULD SUGGEST PEOPLE ARE WORKING.

THE REVENUES SHOULD BE COMING IN ON THE P.I.

SO WE HAVE TO SEE HOW THIS PLAYS OUT BUT AS FAR AS THE CHILD CARE, PETE, AND MAYBE WHAT YOUR SENSE WAS FROM THE GOVERNOR'S REACTION WAS THIS WOULD BE A REALLY STRONG THING TO TAKE OFF THE TABLE AS FAR AS THE ECONOMY'S CONCERNED.

>> ALICIA, "DIGGER'S" REPORTING THURSDAY NIGHT ABOUT THE DECISION BY THE SPEAKER OF THE HOUSE TO ABANDON THE HOUSE'S BIG PRIORITY, PAID FAMILY MEDICAL LEAVE FOR ANOTHER YEAR IS, WE WERE SAYING LAST WEEK THAT THERE JUST WAS NOT THE SUPPORT IN THE SENATE.

THE SENATE JUST HAD NO APPETITE TO BRING THIS UP.

HOW BITTER A PILL IS THAT AND WHAT'S THE SENATE GIVING IN RETURN?

>> YEAH, I THINK IN SOME WAYS, THIS IS THE LEAST SURPRISING NEWS THAT WE COULD EXPECT, AND ALSO ON ANOTHER LEVEL, I PERSONALLY WAS A LITTLE SURPRISED THAT THE SPEAKER WAS SO FRANK ABOUT TAKING IT OFF THE TABLE IN PAST YEARS AND UNDER PREVIOUS LEADERSHIP, I THINK THERE WOULD HAVE BEEN MORE OF AN INCLINATION TO PERHAPS USE THE FACT THAT THE CHILD CARE LEGISLATION IS NOW ON THE HOUSE SIDE OF THINGS TO USE THAT AS LEVERAGE TO MAKE MORE OF A PUSH, BUT AS YOU SAID, THE SENATE HAS BEEN VERY CLEAR FROM THE GET-GO FROM EVEN BEFORE THE SESSION THAT THEY WERE PRIORITIZING CHILD CARE, AND THE PRO TEM TOLD "VERMONT PUBLIC" JUST LAST WEEK THAT THEY SIMPLY DID NOT HAVE THE VOTES.

SO I THINK THIS IS KROWINSKI BEING A REALIST AND SEEING THE WRITING ON THE WALL.

I'VE BEEN OUT OF THE STATE FOR A FEW YEARS.

IN FACT, WHEN I WAS IN THE STATE HOUSE THE TWO COMPETING PROGRESSIVE PRIORITIES WERE THE MINIMUM WAGE WHICH THE SENATE WAS PUSHING FOR AND PAID FAMILY LEAVE, WHICH THE HOUSE WAS PUSHING FOR.

IT WAS INTERESTING FOR ME TO COME BACK AND SEE THE VERY SAME DYNAMIC BUT THE SENATE HAS SLIPPED IN A DIFFERENT ISSUE.

I THINK ONE DIFFERENCE IN THIS CASE IS THAT CHILD CARE LEGITIMATE IS A TOP PRIORITY FOR THE HOUSE AS WELL AND THEY'RE BOTH VERY BIG TICKET ITEMS, SO I THINK THERE'S DEFINITELY TRUTH TO THE SENATE POSITION OF YOU CAN'T DO BOTH.

>> WELL, CAN WE DO AN EXTENSION OF THE EMERGENCY MOTEL PROGRAM?

ANOTHER QUESTION AND SOME PRESSURE BY HOUSING ADVOCATES AT THE CAPITOL THIS WEEK TO THINK HARD ABOUT WHO IS IN THOSE EXPENSIVE MOTEL ROOMS THAT TAXPAYERS ARE FUNDING, AND WHO'S GOING TO BE OUT ON THE STREET IN SX OR EIGHT WEEKS' TIME?

FIRST, LET'S LISTEN TO HOUSING ADVOCATE WHO YOU MAY REMEMBER MAKING THE POINT.

>> THESE EXITS WILL INCLUDE PEOPLE WITH DISABILITIES, PARENTS, CHILDREN, PEOPLE IN RECOVERY, PEOPLE WITH MENTAL ILLNESS AND PEOPLE WITH HEALTH CONDITIONS.

THESE PEOPLE DO NOT HAVE ANYWHERE TO GO.

THEY WILL BE EXITED TO OUR DOWNTOWNS WITH NO PLACE.

>> THEY ARE PUSHING THE NOW SENATE CONFERREES TO ADD A LOT MORE MONEY TO THE BUDGET TO EXTEND THIS PROGRAM BECAUSE OF THE STATE'S CONTINUING HOUSING CRISIS.

THE VISUAL, THE PICTURE THAT SHE PAINTS ABOUT PEOPLE IN WHEELCHAIRS BEING PUSHED TO THE STREET OR PEOPLE WHO RELY ON MEDICATION THAT HAS TO BE REFRIGERATED LITERALLY GOING OUT TO THE STREET, WELL, THE GOVERNOR AND HIS SECRETARY GOT A LOT OF QUESTIONS ABOUT THIS AT THE BRIEFING THIS WEEK.

HERE IS WHAT THE GOVERNOR HAD TO SAY.

>> THE PROGRAM'S ENDING.

THE PANDEMIC HAS ENDED.

THIS FEDERAL MONEY IS NOT COMING IN ANYMORE.

THE $TO MILLION A MONTH WE'RE SPENDING, $18 MILLION TO $20 MILLION WE'RE SPEND SOMETHING JUST NOT SUSTAINABLE FOR US.

WE KEEP EXTENDING THE INDICATE FOR THE PROGRAM AND MOST LEGISLATORS AND CERTAINLY I AGREE IT'S GOT TO END SOMETIME AND WHEN IS A GOOD TIME TO HAVE THIS END?

>> PETE, IS THE, ARE THE APPEALS HAVING ANY EFFECT?

>> THEY ARE HAVING AN EFFECT.

ONE OF THOSE EFFECTS IS JUST A LOT OF WEIGHT HANGING ON THE CONSCIENCES OF INDIVIDUAL LAWMAKERS.

I'M SURE SOME ADMINISTRATION OFFICIALS, YOU KNOW, WE DIDN'T HEAR THE GOVERNOR SAY THIS WEEK, "LOOK, EVERYTHING'S GOING TO BE FIN.

WE'RE GOING TO TAKE CARE OF THESE PEOPLE.

WE'RE GOING TO MAKE SURE THEY DON'T END IN THE STREET."

WE HEARD HIM SAY, "THIS IS GOING TO BE A ROUGH SITUATION, NOTHING ANY OF US WANT TO SEE, BUT REALITY IS WHAT IT IS, AND WE JUST CAN'T AFFORD TO KEEP THIS PROGRAM GOING."

HE SAYS IT WOULD COST $18 MILLION TO $20 MILLION A YEAR TO KEEP THIS PROGRAM GOING AS-IS.

THE JOINT FISCAL OFFICE HAS GIVEN CONSIDERABLY LOWER ESTIMATES THAN THAT, THOUGH SIGNIFICANT, IN THE RANGE OF $68 MILLION TO KEEP IT GOING AS-IS UNTIL NEXT MARCH.

THERE'S A COALITION OF LAWMAKERS IN BOTH THE HOUSE AND SENATE THAT ARE WORKING BEHIND THE SCENES RIGHT NOW TO BUILD THE CRITICAL MASS OF NUMBERS THAT WOULD BE NEEDED TO COMPEL SOME OF THE LEADERS IN BOTH CHAMBERS OF THE HOUSE AND SENATE TO ADD SOME MORE MONEY, BUT NOBODY'S TALKING ABOUT A SCALE OF FUNDING THAT WOULD BE REQUIRED TO KEEP THIS PROGRAM IN PLACE, ANYTHING TO THE EXTEND THAT IT IS RIGHT NOW.

SO YES, A LOT OF HAND-WRINGING BUT GENERAL CONSENSUS THAT, YES, THIS IS GOING TO BE A TERRIBLE THING, THAT THIS PROGRAM ENDS, BUT WE JUST DON'T HAVE THE MONEY TO DO ANYTHING ABOUT IT.

>> YES, BY THE 1st OF JULY, THE SECRETARY OF HUMAN SERVICES SAID THAT SOME NUMBER OF THESE COUPLE THOUSAND PEOPLE WILL SELF-RESOLVE WAS THE TERM OF ART, WHICH I GUESS MEANS GO BACK AND LIVE WITH FRIENDS OR FAMILY ONCE THEY CAN'T STAY IN A MOTEL ANY LONGER.

AND WHAT ABOUT THE S100, THE BIG HOUSING BILL?

THERE WAS NEWS THIS WEEK THAT SAY HOUSE COMMITTEE HAS FASHIONED SOME KIND OF A COMPROMISE OVER ACT 250 THAT THE GOVERNOR SEEMED TO SAY THAT HE COULD LIVE WITH.

DO YOU KNOW ABOUT THAT, TIM?

>> WELL, HE WAS -- I WAS SURPRISED AT HIS TONE, AT THE PRESS CONFERENCE ON WEDNESDAY, THAT YOU KNOW, IT WENT FROM, YOU KNOW, WE TALKED ABOUT THIS A MONTH AGO, STEWART, IT WAS LIKE THE END OF THE WORLD WAS COMING AS FAR AS YOU KNOW, NO MOVEMENT ON ACT 250, WHICH IS THE DEVELOPMENT CONTROL LAW, IT'S BEEN AROUND OVER 50 YEARS.

NOW IT SEEMS LIKE IT'S A DONE DEAL, THAT THEY FOUND A WAY TO MOVE FORWARD, MAKE SOME COMPROMISES, NOT ON THE BIG ITEMS, BUT TO MOVE FORWARD WITH THE HOUSING BILL -- IT'S SORT OF LIKE THE CHILD CARE WHERE EVERYONE AGREES THERE'S GOT TO BE SOMETHING DONE, RIGHT, SO IT SEEMED VERY CONCILIATORY.

HE DID MAKE THE CAVEAT, THOUGH, THAT IT'S NOT DONE-DONE IN THE LEGISLATURE, AND SOMETHING COULD POP UP IN THE LAST MOMENTS HERE.

>> THE GOVERNOR ON THURSDAY VETOED ANOTHER BIG BILL, VERY CONTENTIOUS.

IT'S SENATE BILL 5, THE SO-CALLED AFFORDABLE HEAT ACT AND IN HIS VETO MESSAGE HE REPEATED HIS CONCERN THAT THE LANGUAGE IN THIS BILL AS WRITTEN, HE SAID, IS CONFUSING, EASILY MISCONSTRUED, CONTRADICTORY TO MULTIPLE PORTIONS OF THE REST OF THE BILL.

AS I REPEATEDLY STATED, HE WROTE TO LAWMAKERS, "THIS VETO COULD HAVE BEEN AVOIDED HAD THE LEGISLATURE ELIMINATED THE CONFUSION AND SPELLED OUT IN PLAIN LANGUAGE THAT THE PROPOSED PLAN WOULD RETURN TO THE LEGISLATURE AND BE CONSIDERED FOR CODIFICATION AND VOTED ON IN BILL FORM."

SO HE'S ASKING THE LEGISLATURE KIN SEERL TO HAVE THE COURAGE TO PUT THEIR HEADS ABOVE PARTY POLITICS AND SUSTAIN THIS VETO.

THAT'S PRETTY STRONG.

IT WAS A SINGLE VOTE THAT SUSTAINED THE VETO LAST YEAR.

PETE, DO YOU HAVE ANY SENSE, ARE WE GOING TO BE THAT CLOSE ONCE AGAIN?

>> I HEAR DIFFERENT VOTE COUNTS AND TIMES.

DOESN'T SOUND LIKE IT WILL BE 150 AT LEAST BASED ON WHAT RANK-AND-FILE MEMBERS ARE TELLING LEADERSHIP RIGHT NOW.

LAST TIME AROUND, DEMOCRATS AND PROGRESSIVES DID NOT HAVE THEIR NUMBERS THAT THEY ENJOY RIGHT NOW, 109 MEMBERS IN THE HOUSE.

THEY COULD LOSE NINE AND STILL HAVE ENOUGH VOTES FOR AN OVERRIDE.

I DON'T THINK THE LEGISLATURE WOULD BE MOVING FORWARD WITH THIS VETO OVERRIDE IN SUCH SHORT ORDER.

I HEARD TUESDAY IS THE DAY FOR THIS.

I DON'T THINK THEY WOULD BE DOING THAT SO QUICKLY IF THEY HAD ANY DOUBTS IN THEIR MIND WHETHER THEY HAD THE NUMBERS SO PRESUMABLY THEY'RE FEELING CONFIDENT.

>> WHAT ABOUT THE SENATE, THOUGH?

THIS WAS RIGHT ON THE LINE WHEN IT WENT THROUGH INITIALLY.

>> YES, AND THERE ARE A LOT OF PEOPLE WORKING ON A COUPLE INDIVIDUAL SENATE LAWMAKERS.

THEY THINK THEY MAY BE ABLE TO MOVE, BUT SENATE PRESIDENT PRO TEM PHIL BARUTH WAS SOUNDING AND APPEARING SUPREMELY CONFIDENT WHEN OUR TEAM CHATTED WITH HIM THIS WEEK.

>> A COUPLE OF OTHER THINGS TO TELL YOU ABOUT, THE BILL THAT IS TITLED AND INTENDED TO REDUCE SUICIDE IN OUR STATE THROUGH A SERIES OF GUN RESTRICTIONS, INCLUDING A 72-HOUR WAITING PERIOD FOR GUN TRANSFERS PASSED THIS FRIDAY IN A HOUSE VOTE OF 106-34.

DO WE HAVE A CLEAR IDEA?

I MEAN, THERE'S SOME SAFE STORAGE PROVISIONS IN IT THAT THE GOVERNOR SEEMED TO LIKE.

IT CLARIFIES, AMENDS THE RED FLAG LAWS THAT THE GOVERNOR SIGNED A COUPLE YEARS AGO, BUT THAT 72-HOUR WAITING PERIOD COULD BE THE THING THAT STOPS US.

THE ADMINISTRATION I GUESS HAS NOT MADE IT -- THEY HAVEN'T SAID UNEQUIVOCALLY WHAT THEY'RE GOING TO DO.

>> THE GOVERNOR, AGAIN WAS -- SEEMED TO SUPPORT THE BILL AND VIRTUALLY ALL ITS ASPECTS, BUT BECAUSE OF THE RECENT U.S. SUPREME COURT DECISION, HE WAS, SAID IT WOULD BE, IT'S A MOOT ISSUE REALLY, WHETHER IT BECOMES LAW NOW BECAUSE WE'RE JUST GOING TO GET CHALLENGED IN COURT, AND WHETHER -- HE DIDN'T THINK, YOU KNOW, MY SENSE WAS HE DIDN'T THINK IT WOULD GO, IT WOULD PASS MUSTER CONSTITUTIONALLY.

SO WHAT'S THE POINT?

>> YES.

>> BUT IF YOU DO SUPPORT IT, YOU MIGHT AS WELL SIGN IT AND HAVE THE COURTS FLESH IT OUT, YOU KNOW, AND GO THAT DIRECTION.

SO I -- MY SENSE WAS HE WASN'T GOING TO VETO IT.

WHETHER HE LETS IT GO THROUGH WITHOUT A SIGNATURE OR NOT, I DON'T KNOW.

>> LOOKS LIKE UNIVERSAL SCHOOL MILLS IS GOING TO FLY THIS YEAR AGAIN.

pTHE GOVERNOR'S RAISED SOME CONCERNS ABOUT THAT.

ANYTHING ELSE, ALICIA, THAT WE SHOULD DISCUSS BEFORE WE MOVE ON TO THE OTHER SHOCKER OF THE WEEK?

>> I THINK WE SHOULD PROBABLY RESERVE A FAIR AMOUNT OF TIME TO DISCUSS THAT ONE.

I THINK PERHAPS THE ONLY THING YOU DIDN'T TOUCH ON WAS THE SPORTS BETTING LEGISLATION, LEGALIZING ONLINE SPORTS BETTING, WHICH SHOULD BE ON ITS WAY TO THE GOVERNOR'S DESK SHORTLY.

>> THAT'S RIGHT.

THAT'S RIGHT.

WELL, WE ARE OF COURSE TALKING ABOUT THE STUNNING REVELATIONS THAT CAME FROM INVESTIGATORS HIRED BY THE DEPARTMENT FOR STATES ATTORNEYS AND SHERIFFS IN RESPONSE TO COMPLAINTS FROM STAFF INSIDE THE OFFICE OF THE STATE'S ATTORNEY IN FRANKLIN COUNTY.

THE STATE'S ATTORNEY THERE IS JOHN LAVOIE.

HE WAS JUST ELECTED TO A TERM BACK IN NOVEMBER, BUT BOY, THIS IS SCOTT TONGUE'S WAGGING ALL OVER OUR STATE, WHEN YOU READ THE REPORT, IT IS JUST A LITANY OF OFFENSIVE COMMENTS, SOMETIMES UNWANTED PHYSICAL TOUCHING, BUT HARASSMENT OF EVERY STRIPE.

THIS WAS SOME OF WHAT FELLOW PROSECUTORS HAD TO SAY AT AN EXTRAORDINARY NEWS CONFERENCE AT THE CAPITOL THIS WEEK.

>> WE'VE TALKED TO THESE WOMEN INVOLVED, AND IT IS REALLY VERY DIFFICULT TO HEAR SOME OF THE SITUATIONS THAT OCCURRED KNOWING THAT THERE'S NOT MUCH THAT WE CAN DO TO PREVENT THE INDIVIDUAL TO BE IN THAT POSITION WHERE THEY CAN CONTINUE ACTING LIKE THEY HAVE.

>> DID YOU GET TOO COMFORTABLE MAYBE THINKING YOU COULD SAY WHATEVER YOU WANT?

>> ABSOLUTELY.

THESE ARE NOT PEOPLE THAT I MET TWO OR THREE MONTHS AGO.

THESE ARE PEOPLE I'VE BEEN WITH FOR 20 YEARS.

>> THAT'S JOHN LAVOIE AND JOHN CAMPBELL WHOSE DEPARTMENT RELEASED THIS REPORT.

ALICIA, WHEN YOU READ IT, WHAT'D YOU THINK?

>> I WAS PRETTY TAKEN ABACK, TO BE HONEST.

YOU KNOW, DURING THE PRESS CONFERENCE, THEY WERE PRETTY VAGUE IN TERMS OF THE ALLEGATIONS.

THEY SAID THAT THEY WERE DISCRIMINATORY, BUT READING THE ACTUAL REPORT, IT WAS QUITE SHOCKING, JUST THE NUMBER OF INCIDENTS.

IT'S QUITE CLEAR THAT THIS WAS NOT A ONE-OFF THING.

THIS WAS A PATTERN OF BEHAVIOR THAT'S BEEN GOING ON FOR QUITE A WHILE, AND YOU KNOW, A COUPLE OF THINGS THAT STOOD OUT TO ME, THE INSTANCES OF UNWANTED PHYSICAL TOUCHING.

THERE WAS A DESCRIPTION OF JOHN LAVOIE PULLING THE BADGE OFF OF, THE LANYARD AROUND THE WOMAN'S NECK AND STUFFING IT DOWN THE TOP OF HER DRESS, WELL JUST BEHAVIOR THAT I THINK WOULD BE SHOCKING TO SEE IN ANY NUMBER OF SETTINGS, AND TO HAVE IT BE OCCURRING IN A STATE ATTORNEY'S OFFICE PARTICULARLY DISTURBING.

>> YES, BY THE BOSS WHO HIRES ALL OF THESE PEOPLE.

>> I THINK -- >> THERE IS A -- FIRST OF ALL, JOHN LAVOIE HAS, TO THIS POINT, REFUSED A LITANY OF CALLS, A CHORUS OF VOICES, INCLUDING THE ATTORNEY GENERAL, THE GOVERNOR, MANY AT THE STATE HOUSE CALLING FOR HIM TO RESIGN.

OTHERS WANT TO WAIT AND SEE WHAT COMES OF WHAT I GATHER IS GOING TO BE AN IMPEACHMENT INVESTIGATION.

PETE, WE HAVEN'T BEEN DOWN THIS ROAD BEFORE.

>> WE HAVE BEEN DOWN THIS ROAD BEFORE, THOUGH IT HAS BEEN QUITE SOME YEARS.

THE LAST TIME THE LEGISLATURE TOOK UP IMPEACHMENT PROCEEDINGS IT WAS IN 1976, I BELIEVE.

>> RIGHT.

>> WHEN A WASHINGTON COUNTY STATE'S ATTORNEY, DON'T QUOTE ME ON THAT, WAS CHARGED WITH ASSAULT, BUT NO.

THIS IS IN MANY WAYS CHARTING SOME NEW GROUND.

WE'RE GOING TO SEE A COMMITTEE OF SEVEN LAWMAKERS BE STOOD UP BEFORE ADJOURNMENT AND THEN THIS GROUP OF FOLKS IS GOING TO BE CONDUCTING ITS OWN INVESTIGATION INTO THE ALLEGATIONS AGAINST BOTH FRANKLIN COUNTY STATES ATTORNEY JOHN LAVOIE AND FRANKLIN COUNTY SHERIFF JOHN GRISMORE, LOST WE FORGET WAS CAPTURED ON VIDEO CAMERA KICKING A HANDCUFFED MAN IN THE SHERIFF'S DEPARTMENT.

IT'S GOING TO BE A FASCINATING THING.

I KNOW A LOT OF PEOPLE IN THE MEDIA WORLD ARE LOOKING FORWARD TO WITNESSING THIS, JUST FROM A PROCEDURAL STANDPOINT, BECAUSE IT'S NOT SOMETHING THAT YOU SEE EVERY DAY, AS YOU MENTIONED.

>> NO, NOT IN MY TIME.

SO WE'RE TALKING NEXT WEEK COULD BE THE FINAL WEEK OF THE REGULAR SESSION AND IN ADDITION TO ALL THAT'S GOING ON, THE LEGISLATURE IS GOING TO APPOINT THIS GROUP, WHICH WOULD THEN MEET IN THE OFF-SESSION AND COME BACK DURING A SPECIAL SESSION, MAYBE DURING A VETO SESSION, AND REPORT WHAT THEY FIND?

>> THAT'S RIGHT.

WE DON'T KNOW, HOUSE SPEAKER JILL KOWINSKI HAS BEEN VERY CLEAR SHE CAN'T TELL ANYBODY HOW LONG THIS PROCESS IS GOING TO TAKE.

WE DON'T HAVE A GOOD SENSE WHAT THE TIMING IS GOING TO BE AT THIS POINT, BUT IF THIS COMMITTEE DECIDES THAT ARTICLES OF IMPEACHMENT ARE WARRANTED, THEN IT WILL ASK THE HOUSE TO DRAW THEM UP AND THE FULL HOUSE WILL COME BACK TO VOTE ON THEM.

IF A TWO-THIRDS MAJORITY OF THE HOUSE DECIDES THAT THESE ARE IMPEACHMENT-WORTHY OFFENSES, THEN IT HEADS OVER TO THE SENATE, WHICH FUNCTIONALLY HAS THE JOB OF DECIDING WHETHER TO CONVICT.

>> THIS WAS SPEAKER KROWINSKI AT AN EXTRAORDINARY BRIEFING AT THE CAPITOL THURSDAY.

>> I AM NOT MAKING A JUDGMENT.

I AM MOVING FORWARD THE PROCESS FOR THE INVESTIGATION TO HAPPEN.

>> AND SO THAT IS WHAT WE WILL SEE UNFOLD NEXT WEEK.

JOHN LAVOIE AND JOHN GRISMORE'S CAREERS PERHAPS IN THE BALANCE AND THAT'S WHERE WE'LL LEAVE THIS EDITION OF "VERMONT THIS WEEK."

THANKS, EVERYBODY.

TIM McQUISTON, EDITOR OF "VERMONT BUSINESS MAGAZINE", PETER HIRSCHFIELD, STATE HOUSE REPORTER WITH "VERMONT PUBLIC" AND ALICIA FREESE FROM "VT DIGGER."

THANKS AGAIN TO ALL OF YOU.

I'M STEWART LEDBETTER.

HAVE A WONDERFUL WEEKEND.

COME BACK AND SEE US, RIGHT BACK HERE, NEXT FRIDAY NIGHT.