Reilly: TONIGHT ON "GREATER BOSTON": I'M ADAM REILLY, IN FOR JIM BRAUDE.

WHILE THE U.S. STARTS GETTING BACK TO SOME KIND OF NORMAL, THE SITUATION I S ONLY GE TTING WORSEI IN INDIA, WHERE CASES AND INDIA, WHERE CASES AND DEATHS ARE AT ALL TIME HIGHS, AND VACCINATIONS ARE FALLING.

ARE WE DOING ENOUGH TO HELP?

THEN, LATER, TRANSPORTATION FOR TRANSPORTATION FOR MASSACHUSETTS: CHRIS DEMPSEY AND THE TRAIN CAMPAIGN'S KAREN CHRISTENSEN ON A BILL FROM SENATOR EDWARD MARKEY THAT COULD HELP FUND RAILWAYS TO CONNECT ALL CORNERS OF THIS STATE.

AND, FINALLY, REMEMBERING SOME OF THE MANY WE'VE LOST TO COVID.

>>> MUCH OF THE U.S. IS NOW STARTING TO RETURN TO SOME VERSION OF NORMAL LIFE, WITH TENS OF MILLIONS VACCINATED -- 40% OF ALL ADULTS -- AND MORE AND MORE RESTRICTIONS BEING LIFTED.

BUT HALF WAY AROUND THE WORLD, IN INDIA, A DEVASTATING COVID SURGE IS ONLY GETTING WORSE.

YESTERDAY THE COUNTRY BROKE ITS OWN WORLD RECORD WITH 412,000 NEW CASES AND NEARLY 4,000 DEATHS, AND MODELS PROJECT TOTAL CASE COUNT AND DEATHS ARE SET TO DOUBLE BY JUNE, UP TO 40 MILLION CASES AND 400,000 DEATHS OVERALL.

AND THOSE ARE JUST THE CONFIRMED STATISTICS, WHICH EXPERTS WARN MAY BE SIGNIFICANTLY UNDERCOUNTED.

MEANWHILE, JUST 3% OF INDIANS HAVE BEEN VACCINATED SO FAR, AND DAILY SHOTS HAVE FALLEN BY MORE THAN HALF IN RECENT WEEKS AMID A TROUBLED ROLLOUT OF VACCINES MANUFACTURED IN THE COUNTRY, WHICH IS ALSO STALLING EFFORTS IN OTHER COUNTRIES, TOO.

YESTERDAY PRESIDENT BIDEN CAME OUT IN FAVOR OF WAIVING INTELLECTUAL PROPERTY PROTECTIONS FOR U.S. COVID VACCINES SO OTHER COUNTRIES, INCLUDING INDIA, CAN START MAKING THOSE, TOO.

AND THE U.S. HAS ALREADY PARTIALLY LIFTED A BAN THAT LET'S THE BIDEN ADMINISTRATION SEND RAW VACCINE MATERIALS, VENTILATORS, P.P.E., AND OTHER ASSISTANCE TO HELP INDIA GET THE VIRUS UNDER CONTROL.

BUT WILL IT BE ENOUGH?

I'M JOINED BY DR. ABRAAR KARAN, A PHYSICIAN AT BRIGHAM AND WOMEN'S HOSPITAL AND HARVARD MEDICAL SCHOOL AND A PART OF THE HOSPITAL'S RESIDENCY IN GLOBAL HEALTH >> Reilly: ABRAAR, GOOD TO SEE YOU.

>> THANK YOU SO MUCH.

>> Reilly: WHAT IS HAPPENING IN INDIA IS THE PRODUCT OF DOMESTIC POLITICS OR A FLAWED INTERNATIONAL SYSTEM FOR VACCINE DEVELOPMENT AND DISTRIBUTION, OR MAYBE SOME OF BOTH?

>> ADAM, I THINK IT IS DEFINITELY MULTI-FAC MULTI-FACTORIAL.

WE SAW A WAVE OF 90 THAT IS CASES A DAY, WHICH WAS BROUGHT UNDER CONTROL.

AND THE REST OF THE WORLD WAS WONDERING HOW INDIA CONTROLLED IT SO WELL.

IT COULD BE THAT ONE IN FIVE INDIANS HAD BEEN EXPOSED TO THE VIRUS, AND COULD THERE BE AREAS THAT WERE DEVELOPING SO-CALLED HERD IMMUNITY, AND SO CASES CONTINUED TO COME DOWN, DESPITE LOW VACCINATION RATES.

WE SAW THAT WAS NOT TRUE.

WHEN YOU START TO PULL BACK ON MASKING AND DISTANCING, AND YOU HAVE A LARGE NUMBER OF SUSCEPTIBLE PEOPLE IN A VERY DENSE AREA, OR COUNTRY,COUNTRY LIKE INDIA, IT IS ONLY A MATTER OF TIME.

THERE IS A DELAY FROM WHEN YOU GET INFECTED TO WHEN YOU GET SICK AND END UP IN HOSPITAL.

IT IS A CON FRENS CONFERENCE OF MANY DIFFERENT FACTORS.

INDIA AND MANY PLACES AROUND THE WORLD ARE VERY, VERY SUSCEPTIBLE NOW.

>> Reilly: I WANT TO TEASE OUT THE TWO PIECES OF THAT QUESTION A LITTLE BIT MORE.

I THINK OF -- AND I DO NOT KNOW MUCH ABOUT INDIAN POLITICS, BUT I THINK OF PRIME MINISTER MODI VISIT TRUMPIAN TENDENCIES, AND IF I UNDERSTAND, HE URGED PEOPLE TO GATHER IN LARGE NUMBERS IN CLOSE SETTINGS AS THIS WAS GOING IN THEx WRONG DIRECTION.

IS THAT A FAIR CHARACTERIZATION?

>> BROADLY SPEAKING, THAT IS WHAT WE SAW HAPPEN.

AND I THINK THE LARGE POLITICAL RALLIES AND LARGE RELIGIOUS GATHERINGS WERE TAKING PLACE, AND MODI NOT WEARING A MASK IN PUBLIC SETTINGS, THESE THINGS REMINDED ME OF WHAT WE HAD BEEN DEALING WITH HERE WITH FORMER PRESIDENT TRUMP AND THE ELECTIONS HERE, THE RALLIES, THE GATHERINGS, THE SORT OF NATIONALISM, BUT TO THE POINT OF DETRIMENT.

AND IT'S UNFORTUNATE.

AND NOW WHEN I TALK TO PEOPLE ON THE GROUND, BECAUSE I HAVE A LOT OF FAMILY IN INDIA, I HAVE A LOT OF PEOPLE I HAVE WORKED WITH, AND I'VE WORKED IN THE COUNTRY IN RURAL AREAS AND IN CITIES, AND SO I HAVE A DECENT UNDERSTANDING OF HOW PUBLIC HEALTH OPERATES THERE, AND I'M HEARING THAT A LOT OF INDIANS ARE FEELING THAT THE GOVERNMENT IS NOT THERE TO SUPPORT THEM.

A LOT OF STATES ARE DEALING WITH IT ON THEIR OWN.

SO SOME STATES HAVE INSTITUTED THEIR OWN LOCKDOWNS, WHERE THERE IS NO FEDERAL OR NATIONAL LOCKDOWNS.

YOU GET REMINDED OF WHAT WAS GOING ON HERE IN THE U.S.

LARGELY THROUGHOUT 2020, WHERE STATES WERE TRYING TO DO THIS ON THEIR OWN.

I WORKED ON THE STATE RESPONSE FOR MASSACHUSETTS FOR A LOT OF LAST YEAR, AND IT CAME DOWN TO GETTING THINGS DONE AT A STATE LEVEL AND COMMUNITY LEVEL.

>> Reilly: BUT THEN, AS YOU POINTED OUT ON TWITTER AND OTHER VENUES -- AND I'VE LEARNED A TON OF WHAT I KNOW ABOUT THESE ISSUES FROM FOLLOWING YOU ON TWITTER -- THERE IS THIS QUESTION OF THE WAY THE INTERNATIONAL FRAMEWORK FOR MAKING RESOURCES FOR VACCINATION AVAILABLE WORKS OR DOESN'T WORK.

I HAD NOT EVEN REALIZED THAT THE U.S. WAS STANDING IN THE WAY OF GREATER DISTRIBUTION IN INDIA BY INSISTING, UNTIL VERY RECENTLY, ON MAINTAINING THESE INTELLECTUAL PROPERTY PROTECTIONS.

I SHOULD HAVE KNOWN THAT, BUT I DIDN'T.

CAN YOU, FOR ME AND FOR VIEWERS WHO MIGHT NOT KNOW THE WAY THIS SYSTEM WORKS INTERNATIONALLY AND THE WAY THIS VITAL PUBLIC GOOD FLOWS TO CERTAIN PLACES AND DOESN'T FLOW TO OTHERS, CAN YOU OFFER SORT OF A LAY PERSON-FRIENDLY SUMMARY OF HOW IT WORKS AND HOW IT DOESN'T?

>> YEAH.

GENERALLY YOU HAVE DIFFERENT FARM PHARMACEUTICAL COMPANIES THAT ARE INNOVATING, TRYING TO GET OUT LIFE-SAVING VACCINES IN A PANDEMIC LIKE THIS.

WHAT HAPPENS IS EVENTUALLY WHEN A PRODUCT IS MADE, THERE ARE CERTAIN PATENT PROTECTIONS -- AND THERE ARE NUMEROUS PATENTS -- OVER DIFFERENT COMPONENTS OF A VACCINE.

THEN YOU HAVE A LIMITED SUPPLY THAT IS AVAILABLE INITIALLY, AND THAT SUPPLY IS BOUGHT OUT BY THE HIGHEST BIDDER.

SO WEALTHY COUNTRIES AND COUNTRIES WITH CONNECTIONS TO VACCINE MANUFACTURERS WERE ABLE TO GET THEIR HANDS ON THE BEST VACCINES POSSIBLE.

AND THEN YOU HAVE A SLEW OF OTHER VACCINES THAT ARE COMING OUT AROUND THE WORLD THAT GO THROUGH DIFFERENT REGULATORY MECHANISMS TO APPROVE THEM.

THERE HAVE BEEN SOME ISSUES WITH SOME OF THOSE VACCINES.

AND SO NOW, AS WE COME TO A POINT WHERE WE KNOW THAT SOME OF THE M.N.R.A.

TECHNOLOGY, LIKE THE MODERNA AND PFIZER VACCINES HAVE THE HIGHEST IN VACCINE EFFICACY, AND THOSE EITHER HAVE NOT BEEN APPROVED OR NOT BEEN AVAILABLE OR AFFORDABLE TO MANY, MANY PLACES AROUND THE WORLD.

AND SO THE WORLD HEALTH ORGANIZATION CAME UP WITH, ALONG WITH SOME OTHER GROUPS, COVAX, BY WHICH THERE WERE BE LARGE NUMBERS OF DONATIONS OF VACCINES THAT WOULD BE EARMARKED TO COUNTRIES THAT COULD NOT AFFORD OR BE ABLE TO COMPETE FOR THE VACCINE.

SOME ARE SAY THERE SHOULD BE FAR MORE DONATIONS TO COVAX, AND THIS IS BEFORE THE TALK ABOUT THE TRIPS WAIVER.

EVEN WITH THE U.S. SAYING, OKAY, WE'LL SUPPORT A WAIVER IN THIS SETTING BECAUSE OF A GLOBAL EMERGENCY, MANY HAVE POINTED OUT THAT JUST PULLING BACK ON THE PATENT RESTRICTIONS ARE NOT ENOUGH BECAUSE THERE ARE TECHNOLOGY TRANSFERS, AND THEY'RE VERY COMPLICATED VACCINES TO MANUFACTURE, AND THERE ARE A LOT OF ESSENTIAL MATERIALS, THAT HAVE TO BE DONE JUST RIGHT TO GET THE VACCINE THAT YOU NEED.

YOU DON'T WANT TO MESS UP THIS PROCESS BECAUSE YOU CAN REALLY COME OUT WITH A PRODUCT THAT IS NOT SAFE.

AND YOU'RE GIVING THIS TO HEALTHY PEOPLE.

IT IS DIFFERENT THAN A MEDICATION THAT YOU WOULD BE GIVING TO PEOPLE WHO ARE SICK.

GENERALLY SPEAKING, THERE IS A LONG WAYS TO GO, EVEN IF THE PATENT RESTRICTIONS ARE PULLED BACK.

AND GIVEN THAT NOTHING WAS BEING DONE, AND THERE WAS VACCINE INEQUITY, THIS IS A STEP IN THE RIGHT DIRECTION.

IT IS NOT JUST THAT WE'RE GOING TO ALLOW FOR THE PATENT TO HAVE BROADER USE; IT IS ALSO THAT WE NEED TO GET VACCINES IN PEOPLE'S ARMS, WHICH IS A MUCH LONGER AND COMPLICATED PROCESS AS WE ARE EVEN SEEING IN THE U.S. AS THAT PLAYS OUT.

>> Reilly: AND IT SEEMS AS A LOT OF THE MORE INFURIATEING MOMENTS IN THE PANDEMIC ARE A TINY STEP IN THE RIGHT DIRECTION -- I DON'T MEAN TO DIM MIN NISH DIMINISH -- I ASK MYSELF THAT IS GREAT, BUT WHY WASN'T THIS DONE THE DAY THAT JOE BIDEN TOOK OFFICE, FOR EXAMPLE?

>> PREVENTION HAS NEVER BEEN POPULAR.

EVEN IF YOU JUST THINK OF YOUR DAY-TO-DAY LIFE, PREVENTION IS SOMETHING THAT IS VERY HARD TO SELL.

IT IS MUCH EASIER TO DAL WITH A PROBLEM ONCE IT IS IN YOUR FACE.

HARDER TO DEAL WITH IT EARLIER ON.

THE PROBLEM WITH PREVENTIONS IS IF YOU DO PREVENT SOMETHING, IT IS A NON-EVENT.

LIKE IN THE U.S., WHEN WE TOLD EVERYBODY TO WEAR A MASK, AND IF WE DID NOT SEE THE COVID SURGE, WE WOULD BE BLAMED AND THEY WOULD SAY IT NEVER CAME.

BUT IT PROBABLY NEVER CAME BECAUSE WE DID THE THINGS TO PREVENT IT.

SO WHEN WE TALK ABOUT VACCINATING THE REST OF THE WORLD, THERE IS A LOT OF HESITANCY UNTIL SOMETHING LIKE INDIA HAPPENS, ALTHOUGH WE'VE SEEN SURGES IN OTHER COUNTRIES, LIKE IRAN AND OTHER PLACES THAT DON'T HAVE GREAT ACCESS AS WELL.

SO NOW WE'RE SEEING THE NEIGHBORS OF INDIA, NEPAL, SRI LANKA, WE'RE SEEING CASES RISE IN THE WHOLE SOUTH ASIAN REGION.

WE'RE ALL WORRIED IT WILL GO TO SUBSAHARAN AFRICA, WHERE THERE IS VERY LITTLE RESOURCES.

JUST THREE YEARS AGO, WE RAN INTO THE SAME ISSUE, THERE WAS NO OXYGEN, OR VERY LITTLE OXYGEN, IN A RURAL HOSPITAL I WAS WORKING IN, AND SO THIS IS NOT A NEW PROBLEM, BUT IT IS CERTAINLY GOING TO BE A PROBLEM WHERE, NOT IF, THESE VARIANTS BEGIN TO SPREAD ELSEWHERE.

>> Reilly: THAT PICTURE THAT YOU PAINT WOULD BE ENOUGH FOR MOST OF OUR VIEWERS TO SAY, ALREADY, THIS IS A BIG PROBLEM THAT THE UNITED STATES AND THE REST OF THE WORLD NEEDS TO BE TACKLING AGGRESSIVELY.

BUT FOR PEOPLE WHO MIGHT NOT HAVE AN ULTRISTIC SIDE, THEY MAY SAY THAT'S A SHAME, BUT I'M NOT IN INDIA, AND IT'S NOT A PROBLEM FOR US HERE.

HOW COULD THIS BECOME A PROBLEM FOR US HERE?

I KNOW THERE ARE CONNECTIONS THAT SOME PEOPLE MIGHT NOT BE AWARE OF?

>> ABSOLUTELY.

THERE ARE MANY REASONS.

EVEN THOUGH WE'RE VACCINATING EFFICIENTLY HERE, AND WE'RE SEEING APPROVAL OF VACCINES FOR TEENAGERS AS WELL, THE REALITY IS THAT THE VACCINES ARE EXCELLENT, BUT THEY'RE UNLIKELY THAT THAT IMMUNITY IS GOING TO LAST FOREVER.

WE'VE ALSO SEEN BREAK TRUE BREAKTHROUGH INFECTIONS, ALTHOUGH QUITE RARE, BUT AS IT SPREADS, HAVE YOU MORE MUTATIONS.

HAVE YOU MUTATIONS FORM ALL OVER THE WORLD, AND THEY TRANSMIT BETTER, AND YOU'VE GOT ONES THAT ALSO CAN HELP THE VIRUS TO EVADE THE IMMUNE RESPONSE AS WELL.

WE EXPECT TO SEE THAT AND NEED BOOSTER SHOTS IN THE FUTURE.

BUT THE REALITY IS UNTIL WE VACCINATE THE WORLD AND CONTROL THIS GLOBALLY, THESE CATASTROPHIC SURGES ARE GOING TO EXPEDITE THE ISSUE FOR EVERYBODY ELSE, RIGHT?

SO A PROBLEM ELSEWHERE IS A PROBLEM HERE.

COVID IS A PERFECT EXAMPLE OF THIS.

IF WE ONLY THOUGHT OF COVID AS AFFECTING WUHAN, I THINK A LOT OF PEOPLE DID INITIALLY, WHO DON'T WORK IN GLOBAL HEALTH.

AND WE SAW WHAT THE EFFECTS OF THAT WERE.

SO YOU DO NOT UNDERESTIMATE VIRUS.

>> Braude: DR. ABRAAR KARAN, THANK YOU FOR JOINING ME.

>> THANKS, GOOD TO SEE YOU.

>> IF WE BUILD IT, THEY WILL COME.

>> Reilly: THAT WAS SENATOR EDWARD MARKEY YESTERDAY REINTRODUCING THE BRAIN TRAIN ACT WITH CONGRESSMAN JIM McGOVERN, A BILL THAT WOULD PUT $5 BILLION A YEAR, OR $25 BILLION OVER FIVE, TOWARDS RAIL SERVICES THAT CONNECT DIFFERENT CITIES ACROSS THE COUNTRY.

THE GOAL IS TO HELP DEVELOP LOCAL ECONOMIES BY CONNECTING THEM TO LARGER CITIES, AND TO CURB OUR CARBON FOOTPRINT WITH LESS NEED FOR DRIVING.

AND MARKEY AND McGOVERN ARE HOPING THIS STATE WOULD BENEFIT WITH SUPPORT FOR PROJECTS LIKE THE BOSTON-TO-PITTSFIELD EAST/WEST RAIL, THE SOUTH COAST RAIL, AND THE RAIL EXPANSION THAT WOULD CONNECT THE BERKSHIRES AND NEW YORK CITY.

BUT IF WE BUILD, WILL THEY COME?

AND, MORE IMPORTANTLY, IS THERE ENOUGH SUPPORT TO BUILD IT?

I'M JOINED BY CHRIS DEMPSEY, DIRECTOR OF TRANSPORTATION FOR MASSACHUSETTS, AND KAREN CHRISTENSEN, FOUNDER OF THE BARRINGTON INSTITUTE'S TRAIN CAMPAIGN, A MEMBER OF THE WESTERN MASS RAIL COALITION, AND C.E.O.

OF THE BERKSHIRE PUBLISHING GROUP, WHO WERE BOTH THERE YESTERDAY WHEN THE SENATOR AND CONGRESSMAN ANNOUNCED THE BILL.

>> Reilly: THANK YOU FOR BEING HERE, BOTH OF YOU.

KAREN, LET ME START WITH YOU.

RIGHT NOW, IF YOU WANTED TO TRAVEL FROM WHERE YOU'RE LOCATED, WHERE YOU'RE BASED, INTO EASTERN MASSACHUSETTS, WHAT WOULD YOU HAVE TO DO?

[LAUGHTER] >> YOU GET IN A CAR.

YOU REALLY HAVE NO CHOICE.

IN FACT, WHEN I GIVE TALKS OUT HERE, I SOMETIMES SAY TO PEOPLE, DO YOU KNOW THERE IS A TRAIN TO BOSTON?

AND A FEW PEOPLE MIGHT PUT UP THEIR HANDS.

AND THEN I'LL SAY, HAVE YOU EVER TAKEN IT?

MAYBE ONE PERSON, EVEN THOUGH THERE IS ONE TRAIN A DAY.

>> Reilly: SO I THINK YOU ANSWERED MY NEXT QUESTION THERE.

THE REASON YOU WOULD GET IN THE CAR IS BECAUSE YOU'RE DEPENDENT ON THAT ONE TRAIN SCHEDULE, RIGHT?

YOU MAY NOT BE ABLE TO GET BACK ON IT?

AM I RIGHT THERE?

>> YOU COULDN'T GET BACK ON IT FOR THE SAME DAY.

IT IS NOT DESIGNED FOR A ONE-DAY TRIP AT ALL.

IT IS OFTEN REFERRED TO AS THE "LATE FOR SURE LIMITED."

SO IT IS NOT RELIABLE, AND CERTAINLY FOR A BUSINESS TRAVELER, IT IS IMPOSSIBLE.

ACTUALLY, THE ONLY PEOPLE I KNOW WHO HAVE TAKEN IT ARE MY TEENAGED CHILDREN.

AND THEN I SENT SOME CHINESE GUESTS ON IT TO COME OUT TO THE BERKSHIRES.

AND I WAS TERRIFIED.

IT WAS ACTUALLY ON TIME, AND THEY THOUGHT IT WAS OKAY.

>> Reilly: REALLY?

INTERESTING.

>> IT WAS JUST THAT ONE.

>> Reilly: THAT ONE EXPERIENCE.

[LAUGHTER] >> Reilly: SO IF THE BRAIN TRAIN ACT WERE TO BECOME A REALITY -- AND WE'LL GET TO THAT HUGE QUESTION LATER ON -- WHAT WOULD YOU MEAN FOR WESTERN MASSACHUSETTS, AS YOU SEE IT?

>> IT WOULD TRANSFORM WESTERN MASSACHUSETTS.

IT WOULD GIVE US THE POTENTIAL TO APPLY FOR GRANTS FOR INTERCITY AND INTERSTATE PROJECT.

IT ACTUALLY ENCOURAGES THAT SO THAT THE BERKSHIRE LINE FROM NEW YORK CITY TO PITTSFIELD, MASSACHUSETTS, COULD BE RESTORED AFTER 50 YEARS, AND ON A MUCH BETTER MODERN SERVICE, AND WE COULD HAVE EAST/WEST SERVICE, GOING FROM BOSTON ALL THE WAY OUT TO PITTSFIELD AND ON TO ALBANY.

IT IS TRANSFORMATIVE FOR THIS PART OF THE WORLD.

>> Reilly: MAYBE MORE THAN ONE TRAIN A DAY, EVEN?

[LAUGHTER] >> YES.

>> Reilly: CHRIS DEMPSEY, I KNOW THAT KAREN IS FOCUSED ON WESTERN MASSACHUSETTS.

YOU HAVE A DIFFERENT VANTAGE POINT.

YOU THINK A LOT ABOUT TRANSPORTATION SYSTEMS IN THIS STATE AND HOW THEY WORK TOGETHER.

WHAT EXCITES YOU AS YOU LOOK AT WHAT SENATOR MARKEY AND HIS COLLEAGUES ARE PROPOSING HERE?

>> I THINK THIS BILL IS ARRIVING AT A REALLY GOOD TIME.

BECAUSE WE KNOW WE HAVE IN THE WHITE HOUSE A SUPPORTER OF RAIL.

AMTRAK JOE, WHO RODE AMTRAK INTO WASHINGTON, D.C. FOR MOST OF HIS CAREER AS A U.S.

SENATOR.

HE IS PROPOSING $80 BILLION FOR INTERCITY RAIL INFRASTRUCTURE ACROSS THE COUNTRY.

THE BRAIN TRAIN ACT COULD BE A PART OF THAT, OR COULD EVEN SIT ON TOP OF THAT, AND ENSURE THAT THE STATES HAVE DOLLARS TO ACTUALLY UPGRADE THIS INFRASTRUCTURE AND BRING THESE IDEAS INTO REALITY.

>> Reilly: HOW WOULD EXPANDING OUR RAIL NETWORK IN MASSACHUSETTS AFFECT THE OTHER MODALITIES THAT PEOPLE USE TO GET AROUND.

I LIVE ON THE NORTH SHORE, AND I TEND TO DRIVE INTO WORK AT WGBH BECAUSE COMMUTER RAIL SERVICE IS NOT ALWAYS THERE WHEN I NEED IT AND IS ALSO KIND OF EXPENSIVE.

SO FOR, LET'S SAY, AUTOMOTIVE COMMUTERS IN THE BOSTON AREA, WOULD THERE BE SORT OF A TRICKLE-DOWN EFFECT IF TRAIN TRAVEL IS EXPANDED STATEWIDE AND PEOPLE WERE ABLE TO LEAN ON THAT, AS OPPOSED TO, SAY, AUTOMATICALLY DRIVING AS KAREN MENTIONED EARLIER?

>> IT WAS INTERESTING TO BE AT THIS EVENT WITH SENATOR MARKEY BECAUSE HE IS ALSO A CHAMPION OF MORE EFFICIENT AUTOMOBILES.

BUT THERE IS A TRADEOFF THERE.

OUR CARS HAVE GOTTEN A LOT MORE EFFICIENT, BUT WE'RE DRIVING SO MUCH MORE.

WE DRIVE 50% MORE IN MASSACHUSETTS THAN WE DID IN 1990, AND THAT MEANS MORE CONGESTION AND ULTIMATELY MORE POLLUTION AND GREENHOUSE GAS EMISSIONS, EVEN THOUGH OUR VEHICLES ARE MORE EFFICIENT.

WE ARE NOT GOING TO BE ABLE TO SOLVE THOSE ENVIRONMENTAL PROBLEMS JUST BY MAKING CARS ELECTRIC.

WE HAVE TO GIVE PEOPLE ALTERNATIVES SO THEY CAN DRIVE LESS.

PRE-PANDEMIC, YOU HEARD ME TALK ABOUT THIS AD NAUSEAM, WE HAD THE MOST CONGESTED TRAGIC.

TRAFFIC.

I BELIEVE THAT TRAFFIC CONGESTION IS GOING TO COME BACK, AND WE WENT TO OFFER MORE CONNECTIVITY FOR PEOPLE IN MASSACHUSETTS.

>> Reilly: JUST AS AN ASIDE, AS I WAS DRIVING IN FROM HOME TO TAPE THIS EPISODE OF "GREATER BOSTON," THE TRAFFIC IN THE TED WILLIAMS TUNNEL ON A WEEKDAY WAS JUST LIKE I REMEMBER.

SO I THINK WE ARE COMING BACK.

KAREN, I WANT TO GO BACK TO A POINT THAT YOU MENTIONED A COUPLE OF MINUTES AGO: SOME OF THE EXPANSION THAT COULD OCCUR IN YOUR REGION WOULD BE THE RE-CREATION OF LINES THAT USED TO BE THERE AND ARE NOW GONE.

I THINK YOU MENTIONED, PITTSFIELD TO NEW YORK CITY?

>> YES.

THE BERKSHIRE LINE.

>> Reilly: AND DID YOU SAY -- I'M TESTING MY MEMORY -- THAT THAT HAS BEEN GONE FOR 50 YEARS?

>> 50 YEARS, SINCE 1971, LIKE SIMILAR LINES ACROSS THE COUNTRY.

STILL HAS FREIGHT, THOUGH, ON IT.

THERE ARE PROJECTS ACROSS THE COUNTRY, GROUPS LIKE MINE, TRYING TO HAVE PASSENGER RAIL RESTORED ON A LINE THAT STILL EXISTS.

>> Reilly: SO WHEN LINES LIKE THAT WERE ELIMINATED FOR PASSENGER PURPOSES, CAN YOU GIVE A MINI HISTORY LESSON, WHY DID WE GET RID OF LINES LIKE THAT WHEN NOW THE WISDOM OF HAVING THEM NOW SEEMS SO CLEAR?

>> BECAUSE THE CAR COMPANIES -- THE FOCUS WAS ON THE HIGHWAY SYSTEM.

THE FOCUS WAS ON CARS.

AND THERE WAS EVERY EFFORT TO DIVERT MONEY AND PUBLIC ATTENTION AND PROMOTIONS TO THE AUTOMOBILE.

I MEAN, YOU JUST SAW, THOSE WERE THE DAYS OF SPRAWL, OF SUBURBAN SPRAWL.

AND SO -- AND AS A TRAIN SYSTEM BECOMES LESS CONVENIENT, PEOPLE USE IT LESS.

BUT ONE OF THE THINGS ABOUT THAT 50 YEARS, AND IT WAS CONGRESSMAN SETH MULTAN WHO ALERTED ME TO THIS -- I HAD FORGOTTEN THAT MOST AMERICANS DON'T HAVE PASSPORTS.

MOST AMERICANS WILL NEVER HAVE RIDDEN A TRAIN.

THEY DON'T KNOW WHAT A TRAIN IS LIKE BECAUSE THEY DISAPPEARED 50 YEARS AGO.

AND UNLESS YOU'VE GONE TO ANOTHER COUNTRY, YOU MAY NEVER HAVE TAKEN A TRAIN TRIP.

>> Reilly: THAT'S A GOOD POINT WHICH ACTUALLY HAD NEVER OCCURRED TO ME.

SO LET'S TALK ABOUT THE ODDS OF THIS -- ACTUALLY, BEFORE WE DO THAT, I WANTED TO ASK ABOUT THE POLITICS HERE.

BUT THAT REMINDED ME OF SENATOR EDWARD MARKEY, AND BRAIN TRAIN, AS SOME OF OUR VIEWERS WILL KNOW, IS AN ACRONYM.

SENATOR MARKEY IS KNOWN FOR HIS LAVISH AND FLASHY USE OF ACRONYMS.

I THINK WE HAVE SOME VIDEO OF HIM BREAKING DOWN WHAT BRAIN TRAIN STANDS FOR.

SO LET'S TAKE A LOOK AT THAT.

>> A BILL, THE BUILDING RAIL ACROSS INTERCITY NETWORKS TO RIDE AROUND INTERIOR OF THE NATION ACT, OR THE BRAIN TRAIN ACT -- >> Reilly: THERE WE GO.

IT ROLLS RIGHT OFF THE TONGUE.

WHAT ARE THE CHANCES, AS YOU TWO SEE IT, AS PEOPLE LIKE TO SEE IT BECOME REALITY, HOW LIKELY DO YOU THINK IT ACTUALLY WILL?

>> I THINK THERE IS A CHANCE THAT THIS BECOMES PART OF THE BROADER INFRASTRUCTURE PACKAGE THAT PRESIDENT BIDEN HAS BEEN TALKING ABOUT.

NOW IT IS UP TO THE HOUSE AND THE SENATE TO CHANGE IT AS THEY SEE FIT AND TO CRAFT A BILL THEY THINK CAN GET THROUGH CONGRESS.

SENATOR MARKEY IS A POPULAR SENATOR.

AND CONGRESSMAN McGOVERN IS POPULAR.

AND TODAY, CONGRESSMAN NEIL, CHAIRMAN OF THE WAYS AND MEANS COMMITTEE, IS ALSO OUT THERE SUPPORTING PASSENGER RAIL AND THE PIONEER VALLEY.

SO WE HAVE SOME STRONG SUPPORTERS IN WASHINGTON, D.C., AND I'M HOPEFUL THIS CAN ULTIMATELY BECOME LAW.

>> Reilly: KAREN, WHAT DO YOU THINK?

>> THE THING ABOUT THE BRAIN TRAIN ACT IS THAT IT REALLY SPEAKS TO THE NEEDS AND DESIRES OF PEOPLE IN MANY PARTS OF THE COUNTRY.

I'VE SPOKEN ON OUR PODCAST TRAIN TIME TO SOMEONE IN MONTANA.

THERE IS A NEW AUTHORITY OUT THERE.

THEY'RE TRYING TO DO EXACTLY THIS KIND OF THING.

THERE ARE PROJECTS IN STATES, RED STATES, BLUE STATES, WHERE PEOPLE ARE LOOKING AT LINES.

THEY'RE SEEING FREIGHT TRAINS RATTLE ALONG EVERY DAY, AND THEY'RE THINKING, WHY CAN'T WE HAVE PASSENGER SERVICE?

AND IT'S THIS INTERCITY CONNECTION.

THAT'S WHAT THEY'RE ALL TALKING ABOUT.

I COULD GIVE YOU A LONG LIST OF THESE PROJECTS.

AND I THINK BECAUSE THIS SPEAKS TO A REAL AND PRESENT NEED.

AND THESE ARE ALL THE KIND OF PROJECTS THAT ARE RELATIVELY EASY BECAUSE THEY'RE ON EXISTING LINES.

NOT THAT ONE COULDN'T DO SOMETHING GRANDER, LIKE EAST/WEST RAIL, WHICH IS A MORE SUBSTANTIAL PROJECT, ALSO VERY IMPORTANT.

BUT I DO THINK IT HAS SPECIAL POTENTIAL TO GET SUPPORT BECAUSE IT REALLY DOES SPEAK TO THE WHOLE NATION.

>> Reilly: I'M GOING TO GIVE YOU THE LAST WORD HERE, KAREN.

I WANT TO ASK YOU WHAT MAY SOUND LIKE A REALLY IGNORANT EASTERN MASSACHUSETTS QUESTION, AND PROBABLY IS, BUT I'M GOING TO ASK IT ANYWAY: IS THERE ANYONE IN WESTERN MASSACHUSETTS WHO MAY NOT BE ENTHUSIASTIC ABOUT THIS INCREASED INNER CREATIVITY BECAUSE THEY LIKE BEING REMOVED FROM THE REST OF THE STATE AND DON'T WANT TO BECOME, YOU KNOW, A SUPERB OR SERIES OF SUPERBS.

>> I CALL IT THE PULL UP THE DRAW BRIDGE SYNDROME.

IT IS REALLY BEAUTIFUL OUT HERE.

SOMETIMES PEOPLE THINK THEY'LL E DELUGED WITH PEOPLE OR WITH HUGE HIGH RISES AND FACTORIES, AND I TRY -- WE REALLY NEED TO CREATE A VISION FOR WHAT THE VIBRANT SMALLTOWN CAN BE LIKE IN THE 21st CENTURY.

HAVE NOISE.

IT IS MORE PEOPLE AND YOUNGER PEOPLE.

WESTERN MASSACHUSETTS IS KNOWN FOR A VAST AMOUNT OF INNOVATION OVER ITS HISTORY.

AND THAT WE WANT -- WE CAN SHARE.

IT IS THE BEST OF BOTH WORLDS.

WE THINK THE PEOPLE OF WESTERN MASSACHUSETTS WILL BENEFIT BY BEING CONNECTED TO BOSTON AND NEW YORK, AND THE PEOPLE OF NEW YORK WILL BENEFIT BY BEING ABLE TO ACCESS THESE BEAUTIFUL, MORE RURAL PARTS OF THESE WORLD.

>> Reilly: WE'VE GOT TO LEAVE IT THERE.

THANK YOU BOTH FOR TALKING US THROUGH.

>> THANK YOU, ADAM.

>> THANK YOU.

> AND FINALLY TONIGHT, REMEMBERING SOME OF THE MANY LIVES LOST TO COVID-19, WITH THE HELP OF THE "FACES OF COVID TWITTER ACCOUNT, LIKE 86-YEAR-OLD FRANCESCA CARCIA OF MEDFORD, WHOSE FAMILY WROTE: "WE WILL MISS HER DEEPLY" AND THAT "SHE WAS A LOVING, CARING MOTHER, GRANDMOTHER, AND GREAT GRANDMOTHER."

CARCIA WAS BORN IN PALERMO, SICILY, AND "LOVED BEING WITH FAMILY AND FRIENDS.

SHE LOVED TO COOK AND COORDINATE GATHERINGS."

PATRICIA AND KENNETH OLSHAN OF REDDING, CONNECTICUT, WHOSE FAMILY SAID THEY'VE BEEN "HEARTBROKEN AND TRAUMATIZED BY THIS," AND THAT THE ANNIVERSARY OF THEIR DEATHS IS "TRIGGERING SO MANY FEELINGS.

THEY WERE SPECIAL, WONDERFUL PEOPLE.

THE PAIN IS STILL RAW."

AND,LASTLY, 80-YEAR-OLD ROSEMARIE GUERRIERO OF REVERE.

SHE WAS DESCRIBED AS "A WONDERFUL, TRULY LOVING, AND SELFLESS PERSON," WHO WAS "A CHILD OF ITALIAN IMMIGRANTS AND THE FIRST IN HER FAMILY TO GRADUATE COLLEGE."

HER FAMILY WROTE: "SHE INSPIRED MANY," AND THAT SHE WAS THEIR "GUIDING LIGHT," THEIR "ANGEL."

IF YOU LOST SOMEONE YOU LOVE TO THE PANDEMIC AND WOULD LIKE TO SHARE THEIR STORY, PLEASE VISIT www.twitter.com/faces of Covid.ñr THAT'S IT FOR TONIGHT, BUT DO COME BACK TOMORROW FOR "BEAT THE PRESS."

EMILY ROONEY AND HER PANEL WILL TAKE UP THE Facebook OVERSIGHT BOARD RULING THAT UPHELD THE BAN ON TRUMP, BUT SAYS THE SOCIAL MEDIA GIANT FELL SHORT ON ITS OBLIGATIONS, TOO.

PLUS, THE "WASHINGTON POST" GUIDELINES ON WHAT RALLIES, PROTESTORS, AND PARADES ITS REPORTERS CAN ATTEND.

THAT AND MORE, TOMORROW AT 7:00.

THANKS FOR WATCHING.

Captioned by Media Access Group at WGBH access.wgbh.org