>>> WELCOME BACK.

THE OTR GUEST THIS WEEK IS PRO-TRUMP REPUBLICAN REPRESENTATIVE MATLE HALL WHO ALSO WANTS TO BE SPEAKER OF THE MICHIGAN HOURS.

FROM THE PENDING U.S. SUPREME COURT DECISION ON ROEV.WADE.

GREG LOGGER, LAUREN GIBBONS, KYLE MOLIN, AND SITTING IN FOR YOURS TRULY, CHUCK STOKES.

SIT IN WITH THEM AS THEY GET THE INSIDE OUT, OFF THE RECORD.

>>> AND I'M CHUCK STOKES FILLING TO?

TIM.

AND WELCOME BACK-- FILLING IN FOR TIM.

WELCOME.

THANKS FOR JOINING US.

WHAT A WEEK!

I MEAN, WE WERE JUST BOMBARDED WITH ALL KIND OF NEWS.

AS TIM SAID, THE SUPREME COURT, THE LEAK TO POLITICO.

IF THIS ALL HOLDS UP AND INDEED THAT OPINION COMES OUT IN THE FALL, THE WAY EVERYONE SAYS IT'S GOING TO BE, THEN IT'S GOING TO CHANGE A WHOLE LOT OF THINGS, POTENTIALLY.

BUT LET'S LOOK AT THE IMPLICATIONS FOR HERE IN MICHIGAN.

LAUREN, LET'S LOOK AT THE LEGAL SIDE, FIRST OF ALL.

THIS HAS ONE SIDE OVER HERE, ONE SIDE OVER HERE.

AND EVERYBODY IS FADING IN BETWEEN.

>> YEAH.

I THINK THE IMPLICATIONS FOR MICHIGAN CAN'T BE OVERSTATED.

WE'RE GOING FROM THE FEDERAL PRECEDENT UNDER ROE TO HAVE A LEGAL ABORTION, TO ONE OF-- WHAT WOULD BE ONE OF THE STRICTEST LAWS IN THE COUNTRY, CRIMINALIZING ABORTION, MAKING IT A FELONY.

AND THERE ARE NOT REALLY THAT MANY EXCEPTIONS INCLUDED IN THE 1931 LAW.

THE EXCEPTION IS TO END-- TO END A LIFE-THREATENING PREGNANCY, BUT THERE'S-- IT'S PRETTY AMBIGUOUS IN TERMS OF WHO GETS TO DECIDE WHAT IS LIFE-THREATENING AND YOU KNOW, WHETHER THAT CAN BE CHALLENGED AFTER THE FACT OF WAS IT LIFE-THREATENING ENOUGH TO TERMINATE A PREGNANCY.

AND YOU KNOW, THERE'S NO EXCEPTIONS FOR RAPE OR INCEST OR SOME OF THE-- OR EARLY MATERIAL MAKES, WHAT WE SEE IN OTHER STATES.

SO IT WOULD BE A SEISMIC SHIFT IN HOW MICHIGAN HANDLES ABORTIONS.

AND I THINK REGARDLESS OF HOW EVERYTHING PANS OUT, THERE'S A LOT OF-- A LOT OF POLITICAL MOVES GOING ON RIGHT NOW.

THERE'S A BALLOT INITIATIVE OUT THERE.

THERE'S OBVIOUSLY A DEEP DIVIDE BETWEEN REPUBLICANS AND DEMOCRATS ON HOW TO HANDLE IT.

A LOT OF REPUBLICANS AND SUPPORTERS-- AND-- YOU KNOW, ANTIABORTION ACTIVISTS ARE-- ARE SUPPORTERS OF THE IN TEEN 31 LAW.

I WOULD LIKE TO SEE IT STAY AND THEN YOU'RE SEEING THE OTHER SIDE OBVIOUSLY, HOPING TO CODIFY SOME LEGAL PROTECTIONS FOR ABORTION IN THE STATE.

>> KYLE, GOVERNOR WHITMER SAID THAT SHE WILL FIGHT LIKE HELL TO MAKE SURE THAT WOMEN'S RIGHTS ARE PROTECTED.

ATTORNEY GENERAL DANA NESSEL SAID THAT SHE WON'T ENFORCE IT UNLESS A COURT OF LAW MAKES HER DO IT.

ARE THOSE GOOD RESOURCES?

GOVERNOR WHITMER HAS TAKEN HER CASE TO THE MICHIGAN SUPREME COURT.

WHAT ARE THE CHANCES THAT SHE'S GOING TO BE SUCCESSFUL THERE?

>> SEEMS LIKE A LONG SHOT, DOESN'T IT?

BUT SHE IS GIVING IT A GO.

SHE'S GOT ONLY ONE MECHANISM AND THAT IS TO ASK THE U.S. SUPREME COURT IN THAT 1931 LAW THAT BANS ABORTION EXCEPT IN THE CASE-- LIFE OR DEATH OF THE MOTHER IS THAT CONSTITUTIONAL.

IS THAT CONSTITUTIONAL, DOES THAT-- >> DOES SHE HAVE BROUGHT TO YOUR-- BROAD POWER TO TAKE HER CASE THERE.

>> SHE'S TAKING HER CASE THERE BECAUSE THERE'S A DECISION THAT SAYS IT IS LEGAL.

THAT'S WHY SHE'S GOT TO GO TO THE SUPREME COURT.

THE SUPREME COURT WOULD HAVE TO DECIDE IF IT IS INDEED LEGAL.

THAT'S THE BEST RECOURSE SHE HAS.

BUT YOU ALSO MENTIONED JUST FUNCTIONALLY HOW THIS WOULD WORK AND IF THE ATTORNEY GENERAL SAYS SHE'S NOT GOING TO ENFORCE IT.

AND YOU HAVE SOME OTHER SCOUT PROSECUTOR-- COUNTY PROSECUTORS WHO SAY THEY'RE NOT GOING TO ENFORCE IT.

ELIE, HE'S NOT GOING-- ELY.

HE'S NOT GOING TO DO IT.

YOU CAN'T IMAGINE IT'S GOING TO BE A HIGH PRIORITY IF IT IS AT ALL IN THE MOST POPULACE COUNTIES AND THE COUNTIES WHERE ABORTIONS ACTUALLY TAKE PLACE.

I THINK THE FOCUS, IF THAT DOES GO INTO EFFECT, IS GOING TO GO TO THOSE ABORTION CLINICS UNLESS-- IN KALAMAZOO OR OTHER PLACES OTHER THAN SOUTHEAST MICHIGAN AND WHETHER THEY WOULD ACTUALLY GO FORWARD AND DO THEM.

IN FACE OF THE LAW.

>> THIS ISN'T JUST A LEGAL SITUATION.

IT'S ALSO VERY POLITICAL.

AND BOTH SIDES ARE TAKING THEIR HARD POSITIONS ON THIS.

WE SEE THAT FUND-RAISING TO PLANNED PARENTHOOD HAS INCREASED JUST IN THIS LITTLE BRIEF PERIOD OF TIME.

WHO DOES THIS BENEFIT MORE?

THE DEMOCRATS OR THE REPUBLICANS IN TERMS OF POTENTIALLY BEING A WEDGE ISSUE IN THIS MID YEAR ELECTION IN GETTING THE VOTE OUT?

>> I THINK IN THIS SPECIFIC ELECTION, IT BENEFITS THE DEMOCRATS MORE OBJECTIVELY, BECAUSE REPUBLICANS WANT TO KEEP THE FOCUS ON THE ECONOMY.

THEY WANT TO KEEP THE FOCUS ON JOEBIDEN.

AND THIS IS GIVING AN ISSUE TO DEMOCRATS THAT IS GOING TO EXCITE THEIR BASE, AND GOING TO GIVE PEOPLE A REASON TO COME OUT AND VOTE THAT THEY MAY NOT OTHERWISE HAVE.

AND JUST LOOKING FORWARD TO NOVEMBER 2022, THIS IS TURNING INTO A BATTLE FOR CONTROL OF MICHIGAN THAT'S DECADES IN THE MAKING.

YOU'RE GOING TO HAVE A BATTLE OVER HOW OUR ELECTIONS ARE RUN.

A BATTLE OVERY PRODUCTIVE RIGHTS.

YOU'RE GOING TO HAVE FIGHTS OVER CONTROL OF THE STATE LEGISLATURE UNDER NEW DISTRICT LINES THAT ARE DIFFERENT THAN ANYTHING WE'VE SEEN BEFORE.

THE STATION IN NOVEMBER-- STAKES IN NOVEMBER ARE GOING TO BE HIGH FOR BOTH SIDES AND I THINK PEOPLE SHOULD BE READY TO SEE AN STREET AMOUNT OF TV ADS, MAILERS, AND ALL OF THAT STUFF THAT WE LOVE ABOUT A CAMPAIGN.

>> LAUREN, YOU REFERENCED THE FACT THAT THERE'S A PETITION DRIVE.

I THINK THEY HAVE TO COLLECT SOMETHING LIKE 425,000 SIGNATURES BY JULY.

HOW MUCH OF AN UPHILL BATTLE IS THAT?

>> I THINK ESPECIALLY WITH THE INTENSE FOCUS ON THIS, WE'VE SEEN THIS WEEK.

YOU KNOW, OVERTURNING ROEVS.

WADE IS A HUGE DEAL, RIGHT?

I THINK A LOT OF PEOPLE ARE SEEING THAT IN THE NATIONAL NEWS.

SO IT'S POSSIBLE THAT THAT REALLY ENERGIZES THEIR EFFORTS.

ONE THING THAT I THINK IS REALLY INTERESTING, WITHOUT HAVING A FEDERAL PRECEDENT, WE HAVE SEEN IN PAST ELECTION CYCLES, YOU KNOW, RIGHT TO LIFE AND OTHER ANTI-ABORTION GROUPS ARE PRETTY WELL, TO HAVE BALLOT DRIVES RELATED TO ABORTION AS WELL.

SO WE COULD BE IN A SITUATION WHERE IN FUTURE ELECTION CYCLES, THIS DOESN'T GO AWAY.

WE COULD BE SEEING ABORTION ON THE BALLOT PRETTY FREQUENTLY IN ADDITION TO WHAT WE'RE SEEING NOW, BECAUSE THESE-- THESE BATTLE LINES ARE NOT CHANGING ANYTIME SOON.

>> YOU KNOW, THAT POINT, CHUCK, SO I TALKED WITH ONE OF THE ORGANIZERS FOR THIS PRO-ABORTION GROUP THAT'S TRY TO PUT IT INTO THE CONSTITUTION THAT ABORTION WOULD BE A RIGHT.

REPRODUCTIVE FREEDOMS WOULD BE INTO THE CONSTITUTION.

BEFORE THE ROE LEAK HAPPENED, SHE HAD 1700 ORGANIZERS OUT IN THE FIELD TRYING TO COLLECT SIGNATURES.

24 HOURS AFTER THE DECISION WAS MADE KNOWN, SHE HAD 5500 NEW VOLUNTEERS.

SO MORE THAN DOUBLE, ALMOST TRIPLE THE NUMBER SHE ORIGINALLY HAD WERE NOW WILLING TO CARRY AROUND CLIPBOARDS AND GET SIGNATURES, WHICH SPEAKS TO CRAIG'S INITIAL POINT ABOUT THE NUMBER OF-- OR THE AMOUNT OF INTEREST AND THE AMOUNT OF BENEFIT THIS WILL BE TO DEMOCRATS.

FINALLY GIVES THEM SOMETHING TO GET EXCITED ABOUT, WHERE THEY WERE NOT EXCITED BEFORE.

INFLATION CRUSHING.

SO THIS PETITION DRIVE.

I THINK THE CHANCES OF IT GETTING ON THE BALLOT NOW GO UP A LOT.

AND ALSO, KEEP IN MIND, THAT OTHER PETITIONS ARE STILL KIND OF STRUGGLING RIGHT NOW BECAUSE THE COST OF GETTING A GOOD PETITION SIGNATURE ARE HIGH AND GETTING A PAD ONE IS HIGH, TOO.

THEY'RE CHARGING A LOT OF MONEY.

AND WE'RE SEEING WITH SOME OF THE CANDIDATES THAT-- GUBERNATORIAL CANDIDATE THAT IS THERE COULD BE SOME REAL PROBLEMS WHEN YOU HIRE OUT THIS KIND OF WORK.

>> THAT'S A GREAT POINT THAT YOU MAKE.

AND FOR REPUBLICANS AS WELL.

THIS IS NOT JUST A QUESTION OF ARE YOU PRO-LIFE OR PRO-CHOICE.

THIS 1931 LAW IS ONE OF THE MOST REVIECTIVE IN THE COUNTRY-- RESTRICTIVE IN THE COUNTRY IF IT TAKES EFFECT.

>> WOULD BE ONE OF 26 STATES WHERE THAT COULD GO INTO EFFECT.

>> AND OURS IS ESPECIALLY STRICT AND REPUBLICAN CANDIDATES ARE GONNA HAVE TO BE OUT THERE ON THE CAMPAIGN TRAIL ANSWERING QUESTIONS ABOUT THIS.

AND IT'S-- IT'S A LAW THAT IN PAST ELECTIONS CANDIDATES HAVE GONE DOWN IF THEY'VE TAKEN THIS STANCE.

AND CONSERVATIVE-- IN CONSERVATIVE STATES.

SO IT'S GOING TO BE REALLY INTERESTING TO SEE HOW IT PLAYS OUT.

>> LET'S SHIFT GEARS.

CAN HAVE A-- CANVASSERS ARE LOOKING AT 28 DIFFERENT PEOPLE RUNNING TO OFFICE-- FOR OFFICE, CHECKING THE SIGNATURES, TRYING TO MAKE SURE IF THEY'RE VALID.

THREE OF THEM ARE GUBERNATORIAL CANDIDATES.

I THINK ONE IS RUNNING FOR CONGRESS.

AND THEN IT GOES DOWN THE LINE HERE.

ALL THIS HAS TO BE DONE BY THE END OF MAY.

THAT'S NOT MUCH TIME THERE.

HOW DO YOU THINK THIS IS GOING TO SHAKE OUT?

>> I MEAN, AS FAR AS WE KNOW RIGHT NOW, THESE CANDIDATES HAVE ENOUGH SIGNATURES TO GET ON THE BALLOT.

IT'S GOING TO BE VERY DIFFICULT FOR THE DEMOCRATS WHO ARE CHALLENGING SOME OF THE GUBERNATORIAL CANDIDATES TO PROVE HERE ARE 7,000 FRAUDULENT SIGNATURES.

THEY MIGHT BE ABLE TO DO IT.

THERE ARE A TON OF QUESTIONS, BUT IT'S A PROCESS THAT IS SOMEWHAT NEW IN TERMS OF THIS INTO-- ALL THE CANDIDATES THAT THE STATE OFFICIALS HAVE TO GO THROUGH.

IT'S SO MUCH UNCERTAINTY, AND THAT'S A PROBLEM FOR THE REPUBLICANS AS WELL.

>> I THINK WE'VE SEEN IT IN THE PAST, WHEN YOU'VE HAD PETITION SIGNATURES WHERE THERE IS A TECHNICAL PROBLEM, THERE'S AN ADDRESS THAT'S WRONG, OR THERE'S A DATE THAT'S WRONG, THOSE GET THROWN OUT.

THERE ISN'T A LOT OF WIGGLE ROOM.

I REMEMBER MATT MORGAN, RAN FOR CONGRESS.

HE USED A P.O.

BOX AS HIS HOME ADDRESS, OUT THE WINDOW.

AND I MENTION THAT BECAUSE TUTOR DIXON PUT THE WRONG DATE ON HER PETITIONS.

SHE HAD THE TERM ENDING IN '26 WHEN THE TERM TECHNICALLY ENDS ON JANUARY 1, 20 DON'T WANT 7.

-- 2027.

IT'S TECHNICALLY INCORRECT.

THAT CREATES A REAL PROBLEM FOR HER.

AND THESE ARE THE TYPES OF THINGS THAT THE WORD WILL BE LOOKING AT.

TECHNICAL PROBLEMS, BUT THEN THERE'S MORE SUBJECTIVE PROBLEMS AND THAT GETS TO CRAIG 'POINT THAT WE DON'T REALLY KNOW WHAT'S GOING TO HAPPEN-- CAN YOU PROVE THAT THIS IS ROUND ROBIN ACTION?

LIKE LAUREN'S PUBLICATION PRINTED JUST TODAY I THINK, WHERE THE GROUND ROBIN THEORY HAS BEEN ADVANCED THAT THEY HAD FIVE PEOPLE WHO JUST WENT AROUND AND SIGNED EACH OTHER'S PETITION SIGNATURES AND TRIED TO USE DIFFERENT HANDWRITING BUT IT DIDN'T WORK.

THESE ARE THE TYPES OF SUBJECTIVE QUESTIONS THEY'LL BE CONFRONTED WITH.

>> LAUREN, KEVIN RINKE, ONE OF THE CANDIDATES FOR GOVERNOR, DID HIS ROAD TOUR.

HE'S BEEN CRISSCROSSING MICHIGAN, REMINISCENT OF WHAT GOVERNOR SNYDER DID SOME YEARS BACK AND GOT MOMENTUM AND BECAME GOVERNOR.

WHAT'S HE SAYING ON THE CAMPAIGN TRAIL AND DO PEOPLE SEEM TO BE RECEPTIVE?

>> YOU KNOW, HE'S GOING AROUND.

HE'S MAKING HIS CASE.

HE'S TRAVELING.

HE WENT UP TO NORTHERN MICHIGAN AS WELL AS OTHER REGIONS THROUGHOUT THE STATE.

HE'S TRYING TO DIFFERENTIATE HIMSELF FROM A VERY, VERY CROWDED FIELD OF REPUBLICAN CANDIDATES.

>> BOATLOAD.

>> YES.

JUST A VERY, VERY CROWDED FIELD.

AND SO HE'S OUT THERE.

HE'S TRYING TO MAKE HIS CASE TO VOTERS THAT HE'S THE RIGHT CHOICE AMONG THIS CROWDED FIELD, TRYING TO PRESENT HIMSELF AS AN OUTSIDER CANDIDATE, ALTHOUGH A LOT OF CANDIDATES COULD TECHNICALLY MAKE THAT CLAIM.

A LOT OF THEM ARE NOT CAREER POLITICIANS.

SO HE'S OUT THERE, HE'S TRYING TO DO IT.

I THINK THE QUESTION REMAINS, YOU KNOW, REPUBLICAN PRIMARY VOTERS HAVE A BIG CHOICE TO MAKE.

THEY HAVE A LOT OF CANDIDATES TO SIFT THROUGH.

SO I THINK THE JURY IS STILL OUT ON WHETHER THAT MESSAGE IS GOING TO RESONATE WITH REPUBLICAN VOTERS.

>> AND BRIEFLY, BEFORE WE BRING IN OUR GUEST, THE DEMOCRATIC PARTY HERE, MICHIGAN SAY THEY WANT TO HAVE THE 24 DEMOCRATIC PRESIDENTIAL PRIMARY MOVED UP IN THE CAMPAIGN PROCESS.

LIKELIHOOD OF THAT HAPPENING AND WOULD THAT BE GOOD?

THEY CITE THE FACT THAT MICHIGAN IS A VERY DIVERSE STATE AND THEY SAY WE SHOULD BE REPRESENTED EARLIER IN THE PROCESS.

>> MY TAKE ON THIS IS THAT IT'S UNLIKELY TO HAPPEN FOR A COUPLE OF REASONS.

WE HAVE THIS VOTING SYSTEM IN MICHIGAN WHERE YOU DON'T REGISTER WITH A PARTY.

SO IT'S GOING TO MAKE IT DIFFICULT FOR THEM TO HAVE AN EARLY STATE VOTE IN MICHIGAN FOR THE DEMOCRATS WHEN'S COULD CROSS OVER AND PARTICIPATE AND THERE ARE A COUPLE OF BATTLEGROUND CANDIDATES COMPETING AT THE DNC.

IT'S UNLIKELY, COULD IT HAPPEN?

THERE SEEMS TO BE A LOT OF SUPPORT FOR IT.

I GUESS SO IT'S STILL POSSIBLE.

>> ALL RIGHT.

WE'RE GOING TO BRING IN OUR GUESTS.

WE'LL SHIFT GEARS, SEE WHAT HE FEELS ABOUT THESISHES.

REPRESENTATIVE MATT HALL REPRESENTS DISTRICT 63.

I THINK THE HOME SEAT IS MARSHAL, MICHIGAN.

HE'S ALSO CHAIR OF THE HOUSE TAXATION COMMITTEE.

AND CHAIR OF THE MICHIGAN GOP CAUCUS.

AND WELCOME TO "OFF THE RECORD."

>> THANK YOU FOR HAVING ME.

>> IT'S GOOD HAVING YOU AS WELL.

ALL RIGHT.

HOW LONG DID IT TAKE TO YOU DRIVE OVER TODAY?

>> IT'S ABOUT AN HOUR AND A HALF AND THERE'S CONSTRUCTION THE ENTIRE WAY, WHICH IS A GOOD THING.

>> YOU'RE GOING TO SPEED LIMIT, RIGHT?

>> THAT'S RIGHT!

[LAUGHTER] >> EVEN IF YOU WEREN'T, DON'T SAY IT ON THIS PROGRAM.

ALL RIGHT.

WE'D LIKE THE FIRST QUESTION.

>> YOU MENTIONED IN THE INTRO THAT HE'S THE HEAD OF THE HOUSE REPUBLICAN CAUCUS.

YOUR CAUCUS MADE NEWS WITH MATT MATOX GETTING KICKED OUT.

WHAT HAPPENED THERE?

>> I THINK THAT SPEAKER WENTWORTH WAS CLEAR, THAT REPRESENTATIVE MADDOCK VIOLATED SOME OF THE CAUCUS RULES AND AS A RESULT, SPEAKER WENTWORTH REMOVED HIM.

>> IS IT FAIR TO SAY THAT HE WAS RECRUITING FOLKS THAT WERE GOING TO BE LOYAL TO HIM AND PRESIDENT DONALD TRUMP IN THE NEXT ELECTION AND THEY WAS BEING TOO AGGRESSIVE IN TAKING OUT CURRENT REMEMBERS AND USING INSIDE INFORMATION TO GET WHAT HE, WITH AD?

>> I THINK WHAT'S WEAR IS WHAT SPEAKER WENTWORTH SAID, WHICH IS THAT THIS WAS A VIOLATION OF CAUCUS RULES, INCLUDING BREAKING CONFIDENTIALITY.

SPEAKER WENTWORTH DIDN'T SHARE WITH ME EXACTLY WHAT THE REASON WAS, THAT MATT WAS REMOVED, BUT I WILL SAY HE DOES NOT HAVE A LOT OF SUPPORT WITHIN THE CAUCUS.

AND HE'S ALIENATED HIMSELF.

SO I THINK IT'S SOMETHING HE'S GOING TO HAVE TO WORK ON, IS BUILDING THOSE RELATIONSHIPS WITH MEMBERS SO THAT HE CAN BE AN EFFECTIVE LEGISLATOR IN THE FUTURE.

>> DOES THIS HAVE ANY IMPACT IN YOUR MIND ON THE 2022 RACES THAT OBVIOUSLY HE WAS SUPPORTING A LOT OF PRIMARY CHALLENGERS RUNNING TO THE RIGHT OR TRYING TO IF SOME MEMBERS OF YOUR CAUCUS?

HOW DO YOU FEEL THIS BODES FOR 2022, ESPECIALLY AS YOU'RE WORKING WITH A NEW POLITICAL MAP?

>> YEAH, I THINK THE IMPORTANT THING HERE TO MAKE CLEAR IS THESE THINGS ARE NOT TRUMP VERSUS NONTRIP CANDIDATES.

SO YOU HAVE TO LOOK AT THE RECORDS OF THE CANDIDATES IN THESE CASES, RIGHT?

AND I THINK YOU KNOW.

I BEAT AN INCUMBENT REPUBLICAN.

SO I CAME IN.

I WAS PRETTY UNPOPULAR WITH THE CAUCUS AND I HAD TO WORK HARD TO BUILD THOSE RELATIONSHIPS.

I'D TAKEN OUT ONE OF THEIR COLLEAGUE AND FRIENDS, RIGHT?

WHEN I RAN I BEAT A CANDIDATE BECAUSE HE VOTED AGAINST THE REPUBLICANS.

HE OPPOSED TRUMP.

HE VOTED NO ON CUTTING THE INCOME TAX.

HE OPPOSED ENGLISH AS OUR OFFICIAL LANGUAGE.

HE SUPPORTED TAXPAYER FUNDED ABORTION.

WHEN YOU LOOK AT CANDIDATES LIKE GREG AND ANDREW FINK, THEY VOTED FOR TAX CUTS.

THEY SUPPORT PRESIDENT TRUMP.

THEY HAVE CONSERVATIVE VOTING RECORDS.

AND SO I THINK THEY'LL BE FORMIDABLE CANDIDATES IN THESE PRIMARIES RUNNING AGAINST OTHER CANDIDATES THAT ARE ENDORSED BY TRUMP.

>> WE TALKED ABOUT THIS AT THE START OF THE SHOW, THIS LEAKED SUPREME COURT OPINION.

WE HAVE THIS IN TEEN 31 LAW ON THE-- 1931 LAW ON THE BOOKS, BANNING ABORTION-- WILL YOU ENCOURAGE YOUR CANDIDATES TO RUN ON ENFORCING THAT 1931 LAW IF THIS RULING COMES DOWN?

>> SO TO BE CLEAR HERE, I THINK THE FIRST THING IS THIS DRAFT OPINION IS A DRAFT OPINION.

AND WHILE CHIEF ROBERTS HAS CONFIRMED ITS AUTHENTICITY, HEATS ALSO CAUTIONED US THAT THIS ISN'T THE FINAL DECISION OF THE COURT.

AND I THINK HISTORICALLY, THERE ARE TWO ISSUES AT PLAY HERE.

WHEN IS A CHILD VIABLE AND WHO MAKES THE DECISION.

IS IT THE STATES OR IS IT SOME RIGHT ENSHRINED IN THE CONSTITUTION.

AND SO WE'RE GOING TO HAVE TO SEE WHAT THAT GUIDANCE WE GET FROM THE-- FROM THE SUPREME COURT IS.

ALL RIGHT?

AND THEN WE'LL FOLLOW THAT GIANTS.

I MEAN, JUST LIKE-- GUIDANCE.

JUST LIKE WE DO IN MICHIGAN.

>> ARE YOU CONVINCED THIS IS GOING TO BE A WEDGE ISSUE IN THIS CAMPAIGN AND MAY VERY WELL TIP THE SCALES ONE WAY OR THE OTHER TO DEMOCRATS OR TO THE REPUBLICAN?

>> WE'RE GOING TO HAVE TO SEE WHAT THE SUPREME COURT SAYS.

AGAIN, THIS WAS A DRAFT OPINION.

AND SO WE NEED TO SEE WHAT GUIDANCE THEY GIVE US, WHETHER THEY CHANGE THE NUMBER OF WEEKS OF VIABILITY, WHETHER THEY CHANGE WHO MAKES THE DECISION TO THE STATES, THOSE ARE THINGS WE'RE GOING TO HAVE TO DECIDE.

AND ULTIMATELY I THINK IT WILL DRIVE TURNOUT ON BOTH SIDES.

IF THERE WERE SOME SORT OF REVERSAL.

IT WOULD PROBABLY DRIVE TURNOUT ON BOTH SIDES.

IT CERTAINLY MADE THIS MORE OF AN ISSUE.

BUT IF THE SUPREME COURT RULING COMES OUT DIFFERENT THAN WHAT THE DRAFT WE SAW, IS THAT WILL CHANGE THE WAY VOTERS VIEW THIS BY NOVEMBER.

>> I FEAR THIS HAS BEEN-- FEAR HAS BEEN A PART OF THIS PROGRAM.

MR.TIMBER WAS ON LAST WEEK AND HE SAID A NUMBER OF THINGS IN REGARDS TO THE MICHIGAN REPUBLICAN PARTY.

HE SAID IT'S A CANCER ON THE STATE GOP.

THAT THE PARTY SHOULD BE IN HOSPICE AND ALLOWED TO DIE.

THAT THE HOUSE GOP MADE A MISTAKE BY TAKING DOWN REPRESENTATIVE MATT MADDOCKS.

THE CAUCUS OF WHICH YOU'RE CHAIR OF.

IS HE RIGHT?

HAVE YOU MADE MR.MADDOCKS MORE POPULAR?

HE WANTS TO BE SPEAKER AND YOU AND OTHERS DO AS WELL.

>> RIGHT.

SO THE FIRST THING IS, JEFF TIMBER AND I WORKED IN THESE CAMPAIGNS FOR MANY YEARS.

AND I REMEMBER JEFF SAY TIMMER SAYING VERY SIMILAR THINGS AS JOHN KASICH'S ADVISER IN MICHIGAN AFTER WE BEAT HIM, RIGHT?

WE WERE AT THE REPUBLICAN NATIONAL CONVENTION AND YOU KNOW I WAS THE ONE WHO FOUGHT THE NEVER TRUMPERS TO MAKE SURE WE DID NOT UNBIND THE DELEGATES AND I MADE THE MOST TO DELIVER IN THE-- MOTION TO DELIVER TO GET PRESIDENT TRUMP THE NOMINATION AND HONOR THE PRIMARY VOTES AND SAY TRUMP IS OUR NOMINEE.

JEFF WAS MAKING THE SAME ARGUMENTS AT THAT TIME.

HE SAID TRUMP COULD NOT WIN MICHIGAN IN 2016.

AND TRUMP DID.

AND SO I DON'T PUT A LOT OF STOCK IN THE THINGS HE SAYS ABOUT THIS ISSUE.

I THINK THAT WE'RE GONNA WIN IN MICHIGAN THIS YEAR.

THE VOTERS ARE VERY CONCERNED, AS YOU MENTIONED EARLIER, ABOUT INFLATION.

THEY'RE WORRIED ABOUT THE COST OF LIVING IN MICHIGAN.

AND THEY SEE REPUBLICANS LIKE ME CHAMPIONING BIG TAX CUTS AND GOVERNOR WHITMER VETOED THEM.

>> THERE IS A SPLIT IN THE REPUBLICAN PARTY, ISN'T THERE?

WE SAW THAT IN THE CONVENTION, WHERE WE HAD A GOP DIVISION WHERE FOLKS WHO SAID THAT THEY WERE LOYAL TO TRUMP AND HIS PHILOSOPHY THAT WIDE SPREAD VOTER FRAUD COST HIM THE ELECTION IN MICHIGAN IN 2020 AND THOSE WHO WANT TO MOVE ON AND THINK THAT'S HOG WASH. YOU'VE GOT TO ACKNOWLEDGE THAT EXISTS, RIGHT?

>> ONE THING-- ONE THING THAT I THINK IS GOOD, THE CHAIRMAN MOVED THIS CONVENTION EARLIER.

AND SO HISTORICALLY THIS CONVENTION HAS OCCURRED IN AUGUST.

AND THERE'S ALWAYS DIVISION.

I MEAN, WHEN BILL SCHUETTE BEAT BISH WERE ON A CLOSE VOTE, THERE WAS DIVISION.

AND BILL HAD THREE MONTHS TO PUT THE PIECES TOGETHER AND WIN THE GENERAL, ALL RIGHT?

MATT DIPERNO HAS A LOT MORE TIME.

THIS CONVENTION WAS MOVED EARLY.

HE'S OUR NOMINEE.

HE HAS MY SUPPORT.

AND I THINK HE'S GOING TO PUT ON THE RECORD DANA NESSEL WHO'S REALLY NOT ENFORCING LAWS.

YOU SEE VIOLENT CRIMES HAVE GONE UP UNDER HER WATCH.

YOU SEE HER NOT STANDING IN AND DEFENDING IN THESE PLACES WHERE PROSECUTORS WON'T-- YOU KNOW, THEY PULL SOMEONE OVER AND THEY WON'T ENFORCE DRAWING LAWS OR GUN LAWS.

SO I THINK YOU'LL SEE A CONTRAST HERE AND I THINK THAT MATT HAS THE TIME TO PUT THE PARTY TOGETHER AND WIN IN NOVEMBER.

>> I NEED TO-- >> GO AHEAD.

>> I'D LIKE TO GO BACK TO THE ABORTION ISSUE BECAUSE REGARDLESS OF WHAT THE SUPREME COURT ULTIMATELY DOES, THEY ARE GOING TO MAKE A DECISION AND IF IT COMES BACK TO THE STATES, MICHIGAN DOES HAVE A LAW ON THE BOOKS THAT IS ONE OF THE STRICTEST IN THE COUNTRY.

AND I THINK A LOT OF PEOPLE MENTION THE AM BIGGUALITY OF WHAT ?IEWTS A LIFE-THREATENING PREGNANCY.

SO A LOT OF PEOPLE ARE ASKING QUESTIONS ABOUT THIS.

AS A CAUCUS IN YOUR PERSONAL FUN, DOES THIS-- OPINION, DOES THIS LAW NEED TO BE CHANGED?

>> WELL, THE LAW IS ON THE BOOKS, RIGHT.

THE CURRENT LAW SAYS IT'S UNENFORCEABLE.

THAT'S WHAT THE ROEV.WADE DECISION SAYS.

SO WE'RE GOING TO HAVE TO SEE WHAT THE NEW SUPREME COURT DECISION SAYS.

I MEAN, THE LAST TIME IN THE 1990s, WHEN THEY HAD THE CASEY LAW, THERE WERE A LOT OF THESE SAME DEBATES GOING ON.

AND THAT DIDN'T CHANGE THINGS MUCH.

AND SO WE'LL SEE WHAT HAPPENS.

>> THERE WAS A SPECIAL ELECTION THIS WEEK AND IN THE GRAND RAPIDS AREA, HEAVILY REPUBLICAN STATEHOUSE DISTRICT.

YOUR CANDIDATE ON THE GOP SIDE LOST THIS ELECTION.

WHAT IS THE LESSON FOR REPUBLICANS IN MICHIGAN FROM THAT VOTE AND WHAT DO YOU TAKE AWAY FROM IT?

>> YEAH.

THIS GRAND RAPIDS SEAT, ROBERT REGAN WAS A VERY EXTREME CANDIDATE.

HE HAD VIEWS ON PUTIN THAT ARE NOT IN LINE WITH THE REPUBLICAN PARTY.

HE HAD LINES-- OR VIEWS ON SEXUAL ASSAULT THAT WERE NOT IN LINE WITH MAINSTREAM REPUBLICAN VIEWS.

AND HE LOST.

I SEE IT AS A ONE-OFF THING.

I'VE BEEN WORKING HARD, RECRUITING CANDIDATES ACROSS OUR STATE.

I'VE BEEN MEETING WITH THE CANDIDATES RUNNING FOR THE STATEHOUSE.

I DON'T SEE OTHER CANDIDATES LIKE HIM RUNNING.

AND I THINK WE'RE GOING TO WIN.

YOU LOOK AT THESE NEW MAPS.

THEY FAVOR HOUSE REPUBLICANS.

WE THINK THAT ULTIMATELY WHEN WE GET THERE, VOTING VOTERS WILL BE MAKING THEIR DECISION BASED ON THE ECONOMY AND THE FAILURE OF THE BIDEN ADMINISTRATION AND GOVERNOR WHITMER AND ALL THE THINGS SHE DID.

PEOPLE REMEMBER WHEN SHE STHUT DOWN OUR LIVELIHOODS-- SHUT DOWN OUR LIVELIHOODS A YEAR AGO.

>> REGAN IS RUNNING AGAIN THIS SUMMER FOR A SIMILAR SEAT.

ARE YOU CONCERNED AT ALL THAT YOUR CHANCE AT MAJORITY COULD BE IN DANGER IF CANDIDATES LIKE ROBERT REGAN WIN THESE NOMINATIONS?

>> I THINK ROBERT IS AN ISOLATED INCIDENT HERE OF A CANDIDATE.

AND HE LOST.

AND I THINK THE VOTERS OF HIS COMMUNITIES WHEN THEY'RE EVALUATING WHO TO NOMINATE FOR THE REPUBLICAN NOMINATION WILL SEE THAT HE LOST A SAFE REPUBLICAN SEAT.

AND THEY'LL PROBABLY LOOK TO ONE OF THE OTHER CANDIDATES IN THAT RACE.

>> REPRESENTATIVE, THERE ARE PROMINENT REPUBLICANS IN MICHIGAN RAISING MONEY AGAINST DONALD TRUMP-ENDORSED CANDIDATES.

HOW CONCERNED ARE YOU WITH THAT MOVE AFOOT AND THIS DIVISION WITHIN THE REPUBLICAN PARTY AND WILL THIS DIVISION ALONE PERHAPS DESTROY THE PARTY?

>> I'M CONCERNED ABOUT IT.

YOU KNOW, I THINK THAT SOME-- LIKE I SAID, I'VE BEEN MEETING WITH ALL OF THESE CANDIDATES THAT ARE RUNNING FOR THE STATEHOUSE.

AND THE FACT IS MANY OF THESE CANDIDATES THAT ARE ENDORSED BY TRUMP ARE VERY SIMILAR TO CANDIDATES THAT ARE NOT ENDORSED.

THEY'RE RUNNING ON THE ECONOMY.

AND THEY'RE RUNNING ON CUTTING SPENDING.

AND THEY'RE RUNNING ON PROTECTING PEOPLE'S CONSTITUTIONAL RIGHTS.

THEY'RE PRETTY MAINSTREAM CANDIDATES.

SO WE CAN'T GET PIGEON HOLED IN SOME KIND OF A TRUMP VERSUS ANTI-TRUMP SITUATION HERE BECAUSE THE TRUTH IS MOST REPUBLICANS SUPPORT PRESIDENT TRUMP.

THEY LOOK AT THE THINGS THAT BIDEN HAS DONE WITH OUR FOREIGN POLICY, WHAT HAPPENED IN AFGHANISTAN WITH HIS POLICIES THAT HAVE CREATED THAT MASSIVE COST OF LIVING PROBLEM.

AND A LOT OF PEOPLE THINK MORE POSITIVELY ABOUT PRESIDENT TRUMP THAN THEY DID JUST A COUPLE YEARS AGO.

SO TRUMP IS AN IMPORTANT PART OF OUR PARTY.

YOU KNOW, IF THERE'S A CANDIDATE LINE ROBERT REGAN WHO DOESN'T REPRESENT OUR VIEWS, THEN WE SHOULD WORK TO MAKE SURE WE GET SOMEONE WHO CAN WIN.

BUT IN MOST CASES, WHETHER TRUMP ENFORCES-- ENDORSES HIM OR NOT, WE NEED TO GET THEM THROUGH THE ELECTION AND WIN IN NOVEMBER.

>> YES OR NO.

IF REPRESENTATIVE MADDOCK BECOMES THE NEXT SPEAKER OF THE MICHIGAN HOUSE, ARE YOU WORRIED ABOUTRY TRI-- ABOUT RETRIBUTION?

>> I DON'T THINK HE HAS A CHANCE TO BECOME SNEAK OF THE NEXT HOUSE BECAUSE OF WHERE THE VOTES ARE AT.

>> WHAT DO YOU YOU THINK HE HAS ANY CHANCE?

>> BECAUSE I'VE LOOKED AT THE MATH AND I KNOW WHERE THE COMMITMENTS ARE AND IT'S NOT POSSIBLE.

>> ALL RIGHT.

VERY GOOD.

THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR JOINING US TODAY ON "OFF THE RECORD."

KYLE, LAUREN, CRAIG, THANK YOU FOR JOINING US.

AND WE WANT TO THANK YOU AT HOME FOR JOINING US HERE ON "OFF THE RECORD."

WE'LL BE BACK NEXT WEEK WITH ANOTHER ADDITION OF "OFF THE