♪ >> Welcome back.

Our guest this weeks justin WINSLOW.

Ceo with the MICHIGAN restaurant and lodging ASSOCIATION.

Did governor Whitmer miss an opportunities for bipartisan cooperation with the republican LEADERS.

Sit in with us as we get the inside out, off the record.

>> Production ofave the record is made possible by the following: Now, this edition of off the record with tim skubiCk.

>> Thank you for TAKING time out of your busy holbay weekend with mom's day to join us on oTR with a great panel, David, Kyle and laueren.

Kyle, there was supposed to be Aledgeedly a news conference inful voing the governor and two republican LEADERS over a grand bargain that didn't happen.

Go did the governor miss a chance to demstraight bipartisanship?

>> AccordING TO THE speaker of the house and Senate majority leader the answer is yes.

They could have all gotten together and Amountainsed a deal that -- Amountainsed a deal that in-- announced a deal INVOLVING the rolling back of RESTRICTIONs and vaccinations.

That was the plan.

The republicans also wanted to make as parts of this deal something INVOLVING a budget.

They wanted to have a budget agreement.

They also wanted to declare some type of ceasefire over the Senate cannon all her appointn 'ts they did in January.

There was an attempt to put it all together but they feel like the governor jumped the gun by going forward by announcing the restrictions, the easing back of restrictions due to covid and vaccinations.

And so they feel they have been left in the lurch.

>> We reached out to the executive office for an EXPLANATION on their side of the stories and still waiting for that.

David, what is your side of the story?

The governor has been saying for how long we have to work together.

Here is a chance to bring the three together.

If she did that would have that gotten your ASTPHEPBGZ.

>> Anyime there is compromise everybody sits up.

Republicans are UPSET about timing and you will hear there is push back on the specifics.

What is in the roll back.

Democrats will say republicans have wanted easing of restrictions tieED TO metrics for months and that's what they got.

And we also have sourcing telling us there a key part of this plan, the governor's plan that ties rolling back the restrictions to getting the force dose opposeED TO the second dose and that was an idea from republicans and she incorporated those.

IT is fair to ask why she didn't give republicans credit per that idea for how the three officerses could just -- offices couldn't just coordinate an appearance.

There are questions but democracies will say they got what THEY WANTed when it comes to metricS.

>> Laueren?

>> Yeah -- lauren?

>> There might be confusion on ON-GOING back lash.

There have been calls, as Dave mentioned, for metrics for quite sometime and now there are metricses.

I think it comes down to republican, UPSET the metrics don't include anything other than the first dose of vaccinations.

We are seeing a lot of interest in other metrics and a lot of concerns especially from republican leadership about vaccine hesitancy for the last bit of the population there.

They would like to see some hospitalization metric, a few other bench marks to get that reopening process going.

From a public stand point Tmight be CONFUSING for people to still be hearing about disagreements when at least from the front facing perspective there are metricses in place now.

That said, I do think this does continue to complicate budget negotiations, continues to complicate the ON-GOING relationship between the governor and the republican legislature.

>> Kyle, correct me if I'm wrong, did we not hear FROM the executive officers they said if these two guys wanted to show up all they had to do was call.

The question would be if you are the governor trying to promote bipartisanship, why don't you pick up the phone and call them?

>> You are exactly right.

The story that is going to be going on for the next couple of weeks and maybe the next couple of month system trying to get the last few people and I shouldn't use the word few, but getting the last bunch of people vaccinated.

Republicans said the best way to reach these people is have us come and join you and urge you to get vaccinations.

They represent a opinion caucus whose views are aligned with people who are hesitant about getting the vaccination if not just flat out opposed to it.

They have to try to crack the people.

The vaccination numbers have been going down since the beginning of April, like three or four weeks of numbers going down.

The ability to get at that 70% of the population vaccinated the governor says is needED TO go back to normal appears to be getting harder and harder.

There has to be an attempt to get these people and if the republicans want to join the governor that's one way they say they could have done it.

>> BY THE same token I did hear from an inside source from the republican house caucus the phone, ringing off the hook and people are calling republicans to say to get back to nowheral we have to get a shot?

Please.

You are right.

It aligns with what the republican leadership has wanted but be careful what you wish for.

What is the end game here, David?

Do they put Humpty Dumpty back together after this alleged miss opportunity?

>> They do.

There is plenty of need.

At the end of the day there are billions of dollars that could be distributed essentially NEXT week that help people not lose their home, put food on the table and help schools ensure they get kids back and try to eradicate any learning loss from the pandemic, help small businesses stay open.

That's what I hear about.

I hear from readers and other people why are they fighting in Lansing when there is billions of dollars sent not only by democratic president Joe biden and the Congress under PRESIDENT TRUMP.

And the republicans and the governor can't FIGURE that out.

And so, yeah, I think the pressure isn't going away to try to FIGURE out how to use that.

They will come together on that and other ISSUEs.

>> Lauren let's talk about covid passports that do not exist in MICHIGAN.

The administration says we are not going there.

You have a lot of republicans on the house over sight committee taking testimony yesterday on proposed legislation to ban something that doesn't exist.

>> Yeah, you saw it during yesterday's committee hearing, a lot of the vaccine hesitancy or anti-vaccination views being discussed.

It was, yes, it was a debate over a policy proposal that has not been proposed.

The governor's administration says they are not looking into it.

Democratic legislative LEADERS haved they are not thinking it is a priority to require vaccinations for various services or to be able to go to businesses.

But republicans have preemptively had this conversation and are saying that they don't want to see these requirements go in place.

And there was a lot of, you know, several people who came forward who brought forward basically debunked ideas about what vaccinations are and what they do.

There wasn't a ton of opportunity, I guess, for law makers to question the ideas.

We were seeing at the legislative level, you know, kind of just a lot OF AIRing of concerns about vaccines.

>> David, it was made clear in the committee this proposal would have nothing to do with businesses or the Detroit tigers of imposing their own restriction that says show me your card to have vaccinations and come in and watch the tigers lose.

That could still go on.

What this proposal say system government can ISSUE a document.

Square that for me.

What is the difference?

>> Yeah, I think there is a good point you raise.

A difference between a government ISSUing something that would be deemed a vaccine passport or poviding incentive to require a vaccine passport and preventing a business from doing it.

The committee yesterday had a different bill than the bill sponsor who was working on a substitute and so they were fighting over language that was different.

They were looking at a different piece of legislation.

Given as lauren said a slew of misinformation and lies about what vaccines do and don't do and the lawmakers WEREN'T LOOKING at the same bill as the lawmaker introducing it.

A ton of confusion.

Leer, Kyle mention -- earlier, Kyle mentioned house and Senate republicans say if we want the people to get vaccinated we need to come together on stage.

House republicans just give a massive platform to people spewing misinformation on vaccinations.

They are losing the high ground and getting people hesitant to get vaccine FIST they are bringing in people spewing CONSPIRACY theories.

It doesn't square.

>> Is there a discrimination here.

Some people that can't get the vaccine.

Do we need them to get a note from their mother to get into their favorite bar or restaurant or events like that?

>> That's an argument brought up in committee.

I think they have to be careful when they are putting something like this together.

When you get vaccinated you have a card.

I have a card that says I have been vaccinated for x, y and z.

You need a card to travel internationally.

It not like this is a novel concept.

For government to say government can't ISSUE maybe a different document or formal document is becoming a talking point.

I don't want to say a talking point, but an ISSUE republicans can drum up to try and capitalize on the fears and skepticism of people who are more likely to vote terror THEN.

You have seen this on other ISSUEs like common core.

They turn that into a huge BOOGEYMAN and was able to exploit it for basically political purposes.

I feel this political passport idea is the same thing.

When the government order ISSUEs something that shows you had one vaccine of the PFIZER shot and so now you have your second PFIZER shot and now you have proof of it if you want it.

There is should go Along the lines and maybe it's not formally called a passport, but it exists.

>> Let's call in our guests right now and pursue this ISSUE.

Welcome justin WINSLOW to our panel.

Thank you.

Good morning to you.

How are you DOING?

>> Great to be here.

Thank you.

>> Thank you for doing the broadcast.

We appreciate it.

If your phone rings after you do this show this morning and one your members say should I make it MANDITORY for somebody to come into my eatery to have a shot?

What are you telling them?

>> That's going to be an individual choice by the businesslike an individual choice to get the vaccine.

You know, we have been DOING everything we can to promote the vaccines are safe and EFFECTive and the clearest and best way to get this industry long-term backs on its feet back operating at 100%.

That is what this industry needs more than anything right now.

>> You have a problem here.

The governor said she will take away your curfew FIST you get more vaccinations.

FUtold your members stop them at the door if they don't have a card they don't come in, wouldn't you force people to get a shot?

>> I think we are more focused on incent vising people and providing the reasons why it's a good idea.

It is challenging and there are legal complications for that owner as well that they might run into that might make it more challenging than beneficial.

We are pushing and encouraging you not just all staff working had this industry to get the vaccine but guests as well.

We know people want to return to restaurants and the data shows it clearly.

There is a pent-up demand to get out there and a segment of the population that does not feel comfortable doing that yet especially indoors.

We want to get there.

I think the governor's plan creates metrics and bench marks to get there.

We need to do our best job to incent vise that to get there sooner.

We don't want to miss another summer season.

>> Vuyour fingers cross -- you have your fingers crossed.

>> I hope it is more effective and successful than that.

I have concerns we might not get on 70% in a time line meaningful for our event side of the industry, those who produce WEDDINGs and graduations and conferences.

Will they be able to do that this season?

That's a genuine concern.

>> Lauren?

>> StartED TO get into my first question for you, which is are you concerned that having a vaccination only goal post could continue to make it difficult for businesses to, you know, to continue operating at limited CAPACITY?

>> I think it's a worthy goal.

I think we are finding with each passing day as the numbers go down and I think Kyle mentioned at the beginning of the show will, we'll have a hard time being where we NEED TO number a realistic time TAKE that gets out of the 14-month morAs it has been in.

We had a plan in December that ties reopening more to test positivity numbers.

The legislature has added that concept to the CONaccept and created hospitalization numbers.

Those factors are realistic.

I enSR EUGZ the scenario where we are stuck at 63-64% vaccination rate but below 3% and have been for a couple weeks now of test positivity and case loads continuing to decrease.

Are we going to continue to stall at that point in I think we'll need a mechanism to move forward.

>> David?

>> It's been a lot of reporting about restaurants and other small businesses having a tough time filling the jobs they want to fill and getting people in to work.

What evidence have you seen that you know, any one factor is leading to that.

We hear people earning money off UNEMPLOYMENT but I don't see data that it's true.

Is it wageS?

Trouble getting seasonal workers into the state?

What evidence into you have to support businesses having a tough time filling jobs.

>> I'm glad you referenced that any one variable.

There are so many variables at play here right now.

I'm not going to -- the number of people that are taking supplemental UNEMPLOYMENT benefits is a factor but not a driving factor or leading factor.

I think uncertainty around industry right now and if it will remain open and when it will have the opportunity to return to 100% is a bigger force.

IF YOU ARE making good tipped income in this city before you can't do that -- in this industry before you can't do that in what we have right now.

Especially on the restaurant service side this is about a 70% female industry and child care is an ISSUE in all industries and you feel it acutely in the restaurant industry.

>> Kyle?

>> What is the word you are getting on the street as far as enforcement in is the state still enforcing the CAPACITY limitations as restaurants as vigilantly as they were earlier in the pandemic?

>> That's a good question.

My responsible could only beanec dotal.

I hear a lot less from member, FRUSTRATED members about the DEGREE of enforcement.

I think there has been a better understanding between local health departments and in some instances OSHA in what can happen and what can happen in any given area.

>> The reason I AND IS because it does seem like there is relaxations going on from state regulators and even restaurants for that matter.

I see personally and anecdoteally it doesn't look like it is 50% CAPACITY.

I wonder if naturally people are relaxing a little bit.

>> That's a good question.

I don't have any evidence to suggest one way or the other.

I think almost everyone is exhausted, even those who are charged with enforcing some of these regulations 14 months in.

You KNOW, we are still pushing a message of safety.

We produced a platform for the legislature and the governor to spend some of the American rescue plan dollars that points a lot and directs a lot of the resources at creating a safe environment for CUSTOMERs and workers Alike in this industry long-term.

>> Mr. WINSLOW did you see the group lobbying your members to sign on to a program where they would send them documents they could put on the tables beating up on governor Whitmer.

Does that help you in your relationship with the governor if they are putting that stuff on the table?

She will not be happy with that is she?

>> I would imagine not.

I learned about that ISSUE by reading about that ISSUE.

Not something we are engaged in or involved in.

It sets back the ability for us to have meaningful dialogue and by the way, I think we have had meaningful dialogue that has produced results in the last couple of months.

I think that should be noted.

>> Did you get in touch with this group after you read this?

What was your first reaction when you read it.

Be honest.

>> It was a heavy eye roll too much?

Legitimate frustration with how long this has gone on in the state of MICHIGAN.

I can appreciate that.

I just don't think a stunt like this is necessarily getting us where we all want to go, which is reengaging, reintegrating the economy and letting RESTAURANTs operate at 100% CAPACITY.

>> Have you sent out a memo to your members don't go there?

>> I have not heard directly from any members that are engaged or involved in it or seen them in their own restaurants.

Not to say it isn't happening but it hasn't bubbled up on our radar.

>> How about a preemptive strike saying knock it off.

>> It will fizzle and fade on its own.

It feels more like a one day or two-day publicity stunt and not something ear for the long-term.

>> Dave -- something not here for the long-term.

>> David.

>> Do you think there are RESTARAUNTs and other small businesses that got ppe loans and other funds and then closed.

Do you think there should be apparatus for the government to get that money back?

>> That's a good question.

And I think they knew this was a possibility with ppe loans and the mechanisms are there within the ppp whether they get all the dollars back is to be determined.

That's part of the risk-reward that went into the process.

A lot of restaurants were desperate and hoping and hoping the ppp would keep them afloat.

For a lot it did but not everyone and they were still forced to close their doors.

I'm sure the sba will continue to pursue those dollars.

We saw this week the restaurant revitalization launch.

President Biden spoke about it in a press conference this week.

186,000 applications came in in 36 hours for this 28 their billion that seems like a lot of money, but based on that demand may beently 15% of applicants will receive anything from that fund.

That demapped is still -- demand is still there.

The desire to get federal support to help bridge the time to when they can start operating at 100% exhil exists especially -- still exists especially in MICHIGAN.

>> Lauren.

>> Data is showing and this will pan out as restrictions that unvaccinated people will be FREQUENTing restaurants and traveling and using all of these options as the restrictions begin to lift and CAPACITY limits increase.

What can the industry do to convince staff or former people who are concerned about reentering the job market in the industry that they are going to be protected and kept safe?

>> Yeah, I imagine ppe is going to be a process that is going to stay within this industry for the next several months as we get closer to herd IMMUNITY.

I hope we get there.

But I all think that the state government has a role to play here as well.

It's why we put out this document with about a billion ideas how this industry could be helped and supported.

One is AUGMENTing and supporting a program the state government go put up about safer dining and it's tied to the hvac system and improving air quality for indoor establishments.

Not just restaurants but other places as well.

If the state could use the dollars to subsidize improving air quality it is a good use of dollars that will create support from the general public they know they can go indoors and eat safely and it will promote safety for the work force in the restaurants as well.

>> Justin, did you happen to see Robert gordon testify in front of the house over sight committee the other day?

>> I caught a little bit of it but missed most of it.

>> Did you catch the part where he basically CONfirmed what we suspected this his depreponderateeur was linkED TO him and the governor going to war over weather restaurant SH-S reopen and a quicker time frame.

If you did I was curious what you thought about that.

We suspected that the governor didn't want to be as strict as her health director and it ultimately resulted in him going out the door.

>> Yeah.

The department is in better hands now.

It is much more commune cative.

That doesn't mean the business COMMUNITY or arrest RAUPBTs necessarily get what we are LOOKING for every time.

The fact we can have a dialogue is a major improvement.

Things have got very insular for a long period of time from when in October dhhs was able to take over control of the orders until director gordon's DEPARTURE.

I think the balance is better now of understanding societally what the balance is for safety and opportunity here.

I, you know, I think the governor got it right.

I think the department is operating in a much more sustainable mechanism now than it was under the gordon era.

>> Could we report that you are in dialogue with this administration about adding those extra metric, the hospitalization and positivity stuff on getitous a number where you could reopen?

Are those talks going on?

>> Yeah, every day.

Every day.

>> What progress are you making?

>> I think a lot.

I think you will see some more in the COMING days of a partnership where we are enTKPWAEPBLGed in helping get the vaccination numbers up.

We can help and prioritize making sure as many people as possible, wooing in the hospitality -- working in the hospitality industry.

This is still the second largest private employer in the state of MICHIGAN.

Helping get those numbers up within the industry I think is going to help the industry get back on its feet sooner and help us reach the metrics, bench marks of 65-70% that will mean so much to the industry.

The partnership is FREQUENT and again, daily.

>> Sticky point.

What is the main thing in 15 seconds.

>> It's the timeliness.

I think we really need to find a way, a mechanism not to lose another WEDDING season and how do we do that safely?

IT'S a big conversation.

>> Thank you for for not rolling your eyes.

I appreciate it.

Good to see you.

Thank you to Kyle and David and lauren.

We'll be back next week with more off the record.

Hope to see you there.

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