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>> COMING UP NEXT ON "ARIZONA HORIZON."

THE RECENT MURDER OF UnitedHealthcare CEO SHINES A SPOTLIGHT ON PUBLIC ATTITUDES TOWARDS HEALTH INSURANCE.

>>> ALSO TONIGHT, A MAYO CLINIC SPECIALIST GOES BEYOND THE SCIENCE OF ADDICTION WITH THOSE STRUGGLING WITH OPIOIDS.

>>> AND ASU'S FOOTBALL TEAM GOES TO THE PLAYOFFS IN A REMARKABLE TURNAROUND.

THOSE STORIES AND MORE NEXT ON "ARIZONA HORIZON".

>> GOOD EVENING, AND WELCOME TO "ARIZONA HORIZON."

I'M TED SIMONS.

FALLOUT FROM THE MURDER OF UnitedHealthcare CEO INCLUDES A NUMBER OF CRITICS OF THE HEALTH CARE INDUSTRY CONDONING OR OTHERWISE JUSTIFYING THE SHOOTING, A RESPONSE THAT REFLECTS LONG SIMMERING DISSATISFACTION WITH HEALTH INSURANCE PRACTICES.

JOINING US IS WILL HUMBLE, DIRECTOR OF ARIZONA PUBLIC HEALTH ASSOCIATION.

GOOD TO HAVE YOU HERE.

>> THANK YOU, TED.

>> PUTS A SPOTLIGHT ON THE INDUSTRY, SPECIFICALLY THE CONTEMPT THAT SO MANY PEOPLE HAVE FOR THE INDUSTRY.

WHAT'S GOING ON HERE?

>> IF YOU THINK ABOUT WHAT THE SOURCE OF THAT CONTEMPT IS, IT'S REALLY PEOPLE'S LIVED EXPERIENCES.

FAMILIES LIVED EXPERIENCES, AND SO IF YOU THINK ABOUT, LIKE, WHAT'S THE MOST STRESSFUL TIME IN A PERSON'S LIFE, THERE'S EVENTS LIKE HAVING A KID AND GETTING MARRIED AND THINGS.

IF YOU GET A DIAGNOSIS AND SOMETHING COULD BE REALLY WRONG WITH YOU AND YOU WANT TO GET TREATMENT, AND YOUR INSURANCE COMPANY EITHER DOESN'T AUTHORIZE THE TREATMENT THAT YOUR DOCTOR WANTS TO GIVE YOU OR LATER DENIES A CLAIM AND YOU GET A BIG BILL, YOU START FORMING THESE REAL VISCERAL REACTIONS BECAUSE THESE DENIALS, THESE CLAIM DENIALS AND NOT APPROVING A CERTAIN MEDICATION FOR CANCER OR SOMETHING THAT HAPPENS AT THE MOST STRESSFUL TIME IN YOUR WHOLE LIFE.

>> SOMETIMES IT HAPPENS AS A SURPRISE AND SOMETIMES SO COMPLICATED, YOU DON'T KNOW WHAT'S HAPPENING?

>> THAT'S RIGHT.

SO MANY PEOPLE HAVE HAD SO MANY BAD EXPERIENCES, BY THE WAY, THEIR DOCTORS TOO, THEY HAVE TO EXPLAIN A LOT OF THE STUFF ON PATIENTS.

THEY'RE NOT DENYING THE TREATMENT OR CLAIMS.

THEY'RE THE ONES WHO HAVE TO EXPLAIN IT TO THE PATIENTS, SO THEY HAVE A REAL VISCERAL REACTION TO WHAT HAPPENED, TOO.

SO THERE'S REASONS BEHIND IT.

JARED: >> BUT DOES IT SURPRISE YOU THE EXTENT WHAT WE'RE SEEING ON SOCIAL MEDIA, ESPECIALLY?

>> YEAH, I WAS KIND OF SURPRISED.

IN RETROSPECT IT MAKES MORE SENSE, BUT I WAS SURPRISE.

>> LET'S GO THROUGH BASIC STUFF HERE.

WHY DO HEALTH INSURANCE COMPANIES EXIST?

>> BASICALLY GOES BACK TO WORLD WAR II.

PRIOR TO WORLD WAR II, THERE WAS NOT MUCH HEALTH INSURANCE, AND WASN'T A WHOLE LOT OF TREATMENT FOR THINGS ANYWAY.

THERE WAS BASIC STUFF, BUT AS WORLD WAR II WAS COMING TO AN END, THERE WAS AN INFLECTION POINT IN THE U.S.

IT WAS LIKE HOW ARE WE -- THERE WAS A MOVEMENT, THE LABOR MOVEMENT, A LOT OF MOVEMENT AND COMPANIES WANTING TO ATTRACT WORKERS.

THEY BEGAN OFFERING HEALTH INSURANCE AND THERE WAS THIS GROWING NO.

GET NATIONAL PROGRAM TOGETHER, LIKE THEY WERE DOING IN EUROPE.

SO AFTER THE WAR IN EUROPE, DURING RECONSTRUCTION, THEY FORMED BASICALLY UNIVERSAL HEALTH CARE ACROSS MOST OF THE EU.

IN THE U.S., IT BECAME AN EMPLOYER-BASED SYSTEM.

AND SO PRESIDENT TRUMAN TRIED TO GET SOMETHING CLOSE TO A UNIVERSAL HEALTH CARE SYSTEM IN PLACE, BUT THE AMERICAN MEDICAL ASSOCIATION KILLED IT, AND IT BECAME THIS EMPLOYER-BASED SYSTEM TO GET HEALTH INSURANCE FROM THEN ON, BASICALLY TO THIS DAY.

>> CORRECT ME IF I'M WRONG HERE.

MOST HEALTH INSURANCE COMPANIES, WERE THEY NONPROFITS TO BEGIN WITH?

>> ALWAYS BEEN A MIXTURE IN THE LAST 30 YEARS, BUT HONESTLY, TED, I THINK THERE'S PEOPLE WHO THINK THERE'S A HUGE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN A NONPROFIT AND A FOR-PROFIT HEALTH INSURANCE COMPANY.

I DON'T THINK THERE'S A LOT OF DIFFERENCE.

YES THERE ARE SHAREHOLDERS WITH THE PRIVATE ONES AND WANT A RETURN ON THEIR INVESTMENT AND SO FORTH BUT THE NONPROFITS PAY THEIR EXECUTIVES A TON OF MONEY AND HAVE TONS OF MIDDLE MANAGEMENT, AND THE BONUSES ARE TIED TO THE PROFITABILITY, I KNOW IT'S A NONPROFIT, BUT PUTTING MONEY IN RESERVES, BONUSES ARE TIED INTO THAT WHICH INCENTIVIZES NOT AUTHORIZING TREATMENT.

>> CRITICS SAY, HEALTH INSURANCE COMPANIES ARE AN UNNECESSARY MIDDLEMAN BETWEEN PATIENT AND PROVIDER.

DO THEY HAVE A POINT?

OVERREACHING?

WHAT DO YOU THINK?

>> IF YOU TAKE OUR EUROPEAN DEMOCRACIES AS THE COMPARISON COHORT, YOU CAN LOOK AT -- THEY HAVE -- SOME OF THOSE COUNTRIES HAVE SOME KINDS OF HEALTH INSURANCE, BUT IN GENERAL, MORE OF UNIVERSAL MEDICARE-TYPE SYSTEM AND THEY ONLY SPEND BETWEEN 9 AND 12% OF GDP, GROSS DOMESTIC PRODUCT, FOR HEALTH CARE.

IN THE U.S.

IT'S LESS THAN 16%.

BY GETTING RID OF THE MIDDLEMAN IN EUROPE, IT'S NOT ENTIRELY GONE.

THEY ARE ABLE TO SPEND LESS ON HEALTH CARE AND HAVE HIGHER LIFE EXPECTANCY AND THEY HAVE LESS OBESITY AND THAT STUFF.

>> WHAT GOES INTO THE DECISION BY THE HEALTH INSURANCE COMPANY IN TERMS OF PAYING FOR CARE OR NOT PAYING FOR CARE?

>> WELL, I MEAN, THERE'S TWO THINGS, THEY WANT TO MAKE SURE IF IT'S FOR PROFIT, THEY WANT A RETURN ON INVESTMENT FOR SHAREHOLDERS.

THE CEO WANTS TO MAKE A GOOD SALARY AND MAKE A GOOD BONUS, THERE IS INCENTIVES WITHIN THE SYSTEM TO NOT APPROVE -- GIVE YOU AN EXAMPLE.

IF YOU HAVE A CERTAIN KIND OF CANCER, THERE'S AN OLD DRUG AND A NEW DRUG, AND YOU GO IN, YOU'RE MOST LIKELY GOING TO -- THEY'RE GOING TO APPROVE YOU FOR THE CHEAP DRUG AND SAY IF THAT FAILS WE'LL CONSIDER THE NEXT ONE.

THERE IS THIS INCENTIVE IN THE SYSTEM TO PUSH INTO THE CHEAPER AREAS -- >> BUT, WILL, THAT SOUNDS SO OPTIMAL, THAT DOESN'T SOUND RIGHT?

>> THEY'RE GETTING A -- THERE'S BETTER PERFORMANCE IN EUROPE.

THEY HAVE A COMPLETELY DIFFERENT SYSTEM AND DON'T HAVE THE MIDDLEMEN IN PLACE, BUT THE INTERESTS ARE SO ENTRENCHED HERE NOW, THERE'S SO MANY STAKEHOLDERS WITH SO MUCH MONEY AT STAKE, I DON'T SEE IT EVER CHANGING.

>> ACA, MEDICARE, WHERE DO THEY FIT INTO ALL OF THIS 1234.

>> AFFORDABLE CARE ACT HELPED A LOT.

THEY WERE PEOPLE WHO JUST -- REMEMBER, BEFORE THE AFFORDABLE CARE ACT, IF YOU HAD A PREEXISTING CONDITION, YOU COULDN'T BUY THE INSURANCE.

SO THAT STOPPED.

AND THE OTHER THING THAT HAPPENED IS PEOPLE WERE NO LONGER CHAINED, HANDCUFFED TO THEIR JOBS.

BEFORE THE AFFORDABLE CARE ACT, IF YOU WANTED TO BE AN INDEPENDENT CONTRACTOR TO GO OUT AND DO SOMETHING ON YOUR OWN, YOU'D BE LIKE, I CAN'T, I GOT TO WORK AT ANARY, I NEED HEALTH INSURANCE.

NOW YOU CAN BUY A MARKETPLACED PLAN.

THE PATIENT ACCESSIBILITY IS AS IMPORTANT AS BUYING THE INSURANCE PART.

>> ARE YOU STILL THE TARGET FOR OPTIMAL TREATMENT?

>> SURE.

>> THAT'S GREAT.

THIS WHOLE THING, YOU TALK ABOUT HEALTH INSURANCE TO PEOPLE AND THE EYES GLAZE OVER IMMEDIATELY.

IS IT PURPOSELY SO -- WHY IS IT SO COMPLICATED?

>> I THINK A LOT OF IT IS COMPLICATED BECAUSE THE DECISIONS ARE SO NOT TRANSPAIN.

LIKE YOU DON'T KNOW WHY, WHY AM I NOT AUTHORIZED FOR THIS TREATMENT?

YOU DON'T KNOW WHY, AND YOU CAN'T FIND OUT WHY.

WHY WAS MY CLAIM DENIED?

YOU TRY AND YOU CALL AND YOU CAN'T GET AN ANSWER.

SO THERE'S THIS MYSTERY, LIKE THE WIZARD OF OZ, WHOSE MAKING THE DECISIONS, I CAN'T FIND SOMEONE MAKING THE DECISIONS AND THERE'S NOTHING MORE FRUSTRATING THAN NOT KNOWING WHO'S MAKING THE DECISIONS THAT'S MAKING YOUR LIFE MORE DIFFICULT.

>> IF YOU ARE DENIED TREATMENT OR PAYMENT IS NOT AUTHORIZED, WHERE DO YOU GO?

>> I DID A BLOG ON THIS LAST WEEK BECAUSE OF WHAT'S GOING ON.

IN ARIZONA, CAN YOU FILE A COMPLAINT, HOW MUCH THAT WILL DO FOR YOU IS QUESTIONABLE, BUT BEFORE YOU DO THAT IS BE A SQUEAKY WHEEL, BASICALLY, AND CALL THE INSURANCE COMPANY, GET PEOPLE ON THE PHONE, ASK THE QUESTIONS, WHY WAS THE CLAIM DENIED?

I WANT AN ANSWER NOW.

IF THERE'S AN OMISSION, A SIGNATURE THAT'S MISSING, WHAT IS THE SIGNATURE AND BE TENACIOUS, IT'S BEING A SQUEAKY WHEEL AT FIRST, AND IF IT STILL GOES ON AND YOU STILL CAN'T GET SOMETHING AUTHORIZED OR YOU LATER GET A HUGE BILL THAT YOU THOUGHT WAS IN AMERICA -- NETWORK AND ISN'T, YOU CAN FILE A COMPLAINT WITH FINANCIAL INSTITUTIONS AND INSURANCE AT THE STATE LEVEL.

ARIZONA SADLY DOES NOT PARTICIPATE IN A NATIONAL PROGRAM WHERE PEOPLE CAN COMPLAIN ABOUT OTHER PRIVATE HEALTH INSURANCE AND SO FORTH.

WE COULD WITH THE AFFORDABLE CARE ACT, BUT LEGISLATURE WOULD NEED TO AUTHORIZE THAT AND SO FORTH.

>> BUT EVERYTHING YOU MENTIONED, BE TENACIOUS, BE THE SQUEAKY WHEEL AND YOU'RE NOT FEELING ALL THAT WELL?

>> ALL OF THESE THINGS HAPPEN AT MOST STRESSFUL TIME IN YOUR WHOLE LIFE OR LOVED ONE'S LIFE.

SO THAT MAKES IT THAT MUCH MORE INTENSE.

>> WILL HUMBLE, GREAT INFORMATION, GOOD CONVERSATION, THANKS BEING HERE ARE.

>> STAY HEALTHY.

.

>>> AN ADDICTION SPECIALIST IS OUT WITH A NEW BOOK TO HELP THOSE STRUGGLING WITH OPIOIDS.

TITLED ENDING THE CRISIS, THERE IT IS.

HERE'S THE AUTHOR, SHE'S DR. HOLLY GEYER FROM MAYO CLINIC.

WELCOME BACK TO "ARIZONA HORIZON."

>>> ENDING THE CRISIS, MAYO CLINIC'S GUIDE TO SAFE OPIOID USE.

IT'S A LONG TITLE BUT TELL US ABOUT IT.

>> WE TRIED TO SHORTEN THE TITLE, BUT TO GET TO THE HEART OF THE MESSAGE, IT HAD TO BE THAT LONG IT.

HELPS PEOPLE UNDERSTAND WHEN, HOW, WHY WE USE OPIOIDS AND TO TAKE THEM ON THE JOURNEY AS PATIENTS, NOT NECESSARILY JUST AS INDIVIDUALS UNDERSTANDING THE NATIONAL CRISIS WE'RE STILL IN, BUT AS PATIENTS, WE RECEIVE THE DRUGS AT SOME POINT IN THEIR LIFETIME FOR PAINMENT IN.

A GOOD REASON TO USE THEM, WE DIFFERENTIATE WHEN AND WHY.

>> WHAT DO WE KNOW ABOUT OPIOIDS AND OPIOID ADDICTION?

>> WE UNDERSTAND OFF THE BAT WE FOR A NATIONAL CRISIS ON THIS TOPIC.

OPIOIDS DRIVE THE NUMBER ONE CAUSE OF DEATH IN ADULTS OVER 45.

IT'S A MESS OUT THERE.

ONE EVERY FIVE MINUTES IS DYING FROM THE DRUG CLASS.

SO IF I WERE THE FDA, IN ANOTHER FIELD OF MEDICINE, I'D SAY GET RID OF THEM, BUT THE PROBLEM IS THEY SERVE A PURPOSE.

THE MOST RELIABLE MEDICATION WE USE FOR PAIN CONTROL AND WHEN WE USE IT IN THE RIGHT PATIENT AT THE RIGHT DOSE VIA THE RIGHT ROUTE, THERE ARE MEDICAL CURES.

>> HAVE YOU POSITIVE RESULTS WITH OPIOIDS, NOT LIKE A STREET DRUG THAT NO ONE WANTS TO TOUCH, THEY SERVE A PURPOSE.

>> ABSOLUTELY.

WE NEED THEM, JUST HAVE TO DO IT SAFELY.

>> WHAT DO WE NOT KNOW ABOUT OPIOIDS AND OPIOID ADDICTION.

>> ANY OF US AND ALL OF US ARE SUSCEPTIBLE TO THE SECONDARY CONSEQUENCES.

BETWEEN 3 TO 19% OF PEOPLE THAT TOUCH THAT DRUG CLASS WILL DEVELOP LONG-TERM DEPENDENCY, SO SHORT-TERM PRESCRIPTIONS CAN CAUSE CONSEQUENCES.

THIS IS WHY WE SAY USE IT WHEN NEEDED ONLY IN BREAKTHROUGH AND SPECIFIC CIRCUMSTANCES UNDER A PRESCRIBER.

>> DO WE KNOW THEY CAUSE CONSEQUENCES FOR SOME FOLKS AND NOT NECESSARILY AS EASILY FOR OTHERS?

>> IF I HAD THAT ANSWER, I WOULDN'T HAVE A JOB, BUT THE REALITY IS WE DON'T KNOW.

WE'RE STILL INVESTIGATING.

WE THINK THERE IS PARTIAL GENETICS, PARTIAL MENTAL HEALTH COMPONENT.

PARTIAL SOCIETAL COMPONENTS THAT CREATE THE PERFECT STORM FOR A PERSON, BUT EVERYONE IS AT RISK THE MOMENT THEY ENCOUNTER THE DRUG CLASS.

>> THEY'RE AT RISK BECAUSE THEY GET CAUGHT UP IN IT.

HOW DO THEY GET CAUGHT UP IN IT?

IS IT BASICALLY IT JUST MAKES ME FEEL BETTER?

>> NOT NECESSARILY.

WE RECOGNIZE THREE MAJOR PATHWAYS TO THE DEVELOPMENT OF ADDICTION.

THE COMMON ONE YOU AND I ARE TALKING ABOUT, PAIN MANAGEMENT, WHERE RECURRENT EXPOSURE TO THE DRUG CLASS STARTS TO CAUSE CHANGES IN THE BRAIN.

THESE PEOPLE MAY NOT EXPERIENCE EUPHORIA OR THE HIGH, BUT WITH CHRONIC EXPOSURE OVERTIME, THE BRAIN CHANGE TAKES PLACE TO THE POINT OF ADDICTION AND THAT'S ONE ROUTE.

THE OTHER ONE IS A MORE COMMON ONE WITH KIDS, YOU WANT SOCIAL ACCEPTANCE, EUPHORIA, THOSE GROUPS ARE ANOTHER PATHWAY.

AND GROUPS MOSTLY THROUGH COVID WITH MENTAL HEALTH ISSUES, DEPRESSION, ANXIETY.

THESE DRUGS CURE ALL OF THAT TEMPORARILY UNTIL THEY'RE THE PROBLEM.

ALL ROADS LEAD TO PROBLEMS.

>> THEY CURE IT UNTIL THEY DON'T.

THE BOOK CONTAINS PRACTICAL TOOLS FOR RECOVERY.

THINGS LIKE INTERVENTIONS, WHAT DO WE TALK ABOUT?

PRACTICAL TOOLS FOR RECOVERY.

>> ABSOLUTELY.

THE MIND-SET CHANGE.

IF YOU LOOK AT THE OPIOID CRISIS, YOU GO TO THE LATE 90s UNTIL THE TEEN ERA.

OPIOIDS WERE THE DRUG CLASS WHEN YOU HAVE PAIN.

PRESCRIBERS OFFER THEM FROM HANG NAILS TO GENERAL SURGERY.

WE'VE LEARNED SO MUCH MORE.

THE POINT OF OPIOIDS IS NOT ELIMINATION OF PAIN.

IT'S SO YOU CAN PERFORM DAILY ACTIVITIES TO RECOVER.

>> THAT'S REALLY IMPORTANT BECAUSE YOU DON'T HEAR THAT ENOUGH.

I THINK PEOPLE TAKE PAIN MEDICATION TO GET RID OF THE PAIN, ZERO IT OUT AND YOU'RE SAYING NOT SO FAST.

>> ABSOLUTELY.

THERE'S ALWAYS A ROLE FOR ADJUNCTIVE MECHANISMS, NONPHARMACOLOGICAL TREATMENT FOR OPIOIDS.

>> WHEN I STARTED THE JOURNEY OF MEDICINE I LOOKED AT IT FROM THE SIDE AND GAVE IT AN AWKWARD STARE.

PHYSICAL THERAPY, OCCUPATIONAL THERAPY, TAI-CHI CAN REDUCE THE RESULTS OF OPIOIDS CONSUMED.

>> REGARDING FOLKS WHO HAD ISSUES, WHAT KIND OF RESPONSE HAVE YOU HAD FROM FOLKS WHO READ THE BOOK AND FROM FOLKS WHO MANAGED TO GET OUT FROM UNDER THIS?

>> FINALLY VALIDATION.

WHAT YOU SEE IN THE BOOK IS THE FIRST HALF IS REALLY MAKING ARGUMENTATIVE CASE AGAINST RELIABILITY OF OPIOIDS AND HELPING PEOPLE UNDERSTAND HOW CHRONIC PAIN IS A DIFFERENT BEAST AND WHY WE DON'T USE OPIOIDS IN GENERAL FOR THE GROUPING.

THE SECOND HALF OF THE BOOK IS ABOUT MANAGING CONSEQUENCES INCLUDING ADDICTION, AND THERE IS SUCH MISUNDERSTANDINGS ABOUT THE USE OF MEDICATIONS, WE TAKE THEM ON THE JOURNEY.

PEOPLE WHO READ THE BOOK FEEL THEY ARE UNDERSTOOD.

>> SOUNDS LIKE YOU ARE PASSIONATE ABOUT THIS.

WHY ARE YOU SO PASSIONATE ABOUT THIS?

>> I GREW UP IN THE ADDICTION TREATMENT FIELD.

ME PARENTS STARTED A GROUP AND IT GREW INTO A LARGE ONE.

I GREW UP HEARING THE STORIES AND NO ONE IS IMMUNE FROM THEM.

SENATORS' KIDS AND OTHER PEOPLE WHO WALKED THE LIFE OF ADDICTION.

IT'S A GREAT DESTROYER.

>> THE STORIES ARE ALL RELATIVELY SIMILAR.

>> ABSOLUTELY.

EVERY ONE OF THEM.

WHEN YOU UNDERSTAND THE BIOLOGY OF THE ADDICTION, IT'S A DISEASE, THAT'S WHERE EMPATHY AND FAMILY AND FRIENDS COME IN TO HELP PEOPLE THROUGH IT, NOT OSTRACIZE.

>> ENDING THE CRISIS, MAYO CLINIC'S GUIDE TO SAFE OPIOID USE.

THANK YOU FOR JOINING US.

>> THANK YOU.

.

>> ASU'S IMPROBABLE RUN TO THE COLLEGE FOOTBALL PLAYOFFS HAS SUN DEVIL SPORTS FANS NOT SURE IF IT'S ALL REALLY TRUE, AND FOOTBALL FANS AROUND THE COUNTRY NOT SURE HOW THE DEVILS DID IT.

MICHELLE GARDNER OF "THE ARIZONA REPUBLIC" COVERS SPORTS.

MICHELLE, WE USUALLY HAVE YOU ON WHEN THERE'S A PROBLEM, PROBATION, THIS IS A HUGE -- WHAT'S GOING ON?

HOW DID THIS HAPPEN?

>> THAT'S A COMPLICATED ANSWER.

I THINK THE NUMBER ONE THING THAT'S HAPPENED IS COACH KENNY DILLINGHAM.

THE MAN'S GOT -- OOZES PASSION AND ENTHUSIASM AND NOT A FAKE BONE IN HIS BODY.

WHAT YOU SEE IS WHAT YOU GET.

HE'S REALLY EASY FOR THE GUYS TO BUY IN, PLAY FOR, AND I THINK HE'S A GUY THAT RESONATES WITH THE WHOLE AREA.

HE'S FROM HERE, GOT A VESTED INTEREST IN MAKING THIS PROGRAM GREAT AGAIN, AND HE'S GOTTEN THE PUBLIC BEHIND THIS PROGRAM AGAIN, WHICH I DIDN'T THINK I'D SEE THIS FAST.

>> AND AGAIN, THE LAST TIME WE SPOKE, PROBATION WAS HANGING OVERHEAD, THE A.D. IS GONE, HEAD COACH IS GONE, IT'S A MESS.

IT'S A REAL MESS.

THIS IS AN -- CAN YOU THINK OF A TURNAROUND IN COLLEGE FOOTBALL QUITE THIS DRAMATIC?

>> NO.

NO.

ABSOLUTELY NOT.

AND WHEN YOU LOOK AT THIS YEAR, KENNY WAS DEALING WITH SANCTIONS AND SCHOLARSHIP REDUCTIONS THIS YEAR, SO HE'S DONE THIS EVEN THOUGH HE WAS HANDCUFFED GOING INTO THE SEASON.

>> THE IMPACT OF SO MANY LOCAL ELECTIONS, WENT TO HIGH SCHOOL HERE, COACHED AT HIGH SCHOOL HERE.

HE PRETTY MUCH KNOWS THE LAY OF THE LAND WHEN IT COMES TO HIGH SCHOOL FOOTBALL.

HOW BIG A DEAL IS THAT?

>> IT'S HUGE, THE ALUMNI TRUST HIM.

NOTHING AGAINST THE PREVIOUS REGIME, THAT REGIME DIDN'T KNOW THE LANDSCAPE OF SPORTS IN ARIZONA.

KENNY KIND OF KNOWS WHAT HE'S DEALING WITH, AND I THINK THAT'S HELPED HIM NAVIGATE THIS AND REALLY HAS HELPED HIM GET THIS TRAIN BACK ON TRACK.

>> IF HE'S THE CONDUCTOR THE GUY SHOVELING THE COAL IS CAM SKATTEBO.

HE'S LIKE A BOWLING BALL OUT THERE, NO ONE CAN SEEM TO CATCH HIM.

DID ASU SEE THIS COMING?

DID YOU SEE THIS COMING WITH HIM?

>> THEY HAD A BAD OFFENSIVE LINE LAST YEAR WITH A LOT OF INJURIES AND CAM WAS NOT IN SHAPE.

AND COACHES HAD A HEART TO HEART WITH HIM LAST YEAR AND HE SAID HE WANTED TO PLAY IN THE NFL, AND SAID HE IF YOU WANT TO PLAY IN THE NFL, YOU'RE NOT THERE, YOU NEED TO LOSE WEIGHT, YOU NEED TO GET IN SHAPE AND GAVE HIM A LIST OF THINGS HE NEEDED TO DO TO PUT HIMSELF ON THE MAP.

AND HE DID ALL OF THOSE THINGS.

HE LOST ABOUT 15 POUNDS, THE STRENGTH, YOU CAN SEE THE STRENGTH AND THE BALANCE HE HAS.

HE'S IMPOSSIBLE TO TACKLE.

HE WAS A GOOD PLAYER LAST YEAR BUT OBVIOUSLY TENANT NEXT STEP.

>> WHEN THE COACHES SAY TO A STAR PLAYER YOU NEED TO DO THIS OR ELSE, IN VARIOUS FORMS, AND HE DOES IT AND SUCCEEDS LIKE THIS, THAT ONLY HELPS THE COACHES.

>> ABSOLUTELY.

THE OTHER THING WITH CAM SKATTEBO IS, HE WAS ALWAYS TOLD HE WASN'T GOOD ENOUGH.

HE WENT TO SACRAMENTO STATE BECAUSE NOBODY OFFERED HIM OUT OF HIGH SCHOOL.

HE'S ALWAYS HAD THIS CHIP ON HIS SHOULDER.

WHEN YOU LOOK AT TEAM, THEY HAVE A LOT OF GUYS WITH A CHIP ON THEIR SHOULDER.

THEY'RE THE UNDERDOG, ALWAYS TOLD THEY'RE NOT GOOD ENOUGH.

>> HOW ABOUT THE NIL MONEY OR TRANSFER PORTA.

COULD ASU HAVE MADE THIS DRAMATIC TURNAROUND WITHOUT TRANSFERS, WITHOUT NIL?

>> NO.

THAT'S ONE OF THE REASONS THIS HAS TURNED AROUND.

THE TRANSFER PORTAL BASICALLY COLLEGE FREE AGENCY.

>> YES.

>> SO YOU KNOW, YOU CAN BRING IN WHOLE NEW CAST OF PLAYERS, NOT LIKE THE OLD DAYS WHERE YOU BROUGHT IN A FRESHMAN AND THE FRESHMAN HAD TO SIT THE BENCH OR DEVELOP AND TOOK TWO YEARS FOR HIM TO DEVELOP.

NOW YOU CAN BRING IN A PLAYER FROM ANOTHER NOTED PROGRAM THAT'S PLAYED TWO YEARS, BUT THE OTHER THING ABOUT THE PORTAL AND I THINK IT'S THE NUMBER ONE THING THAT'S TURNED THIS AROUND IS KENNY DILLINGHAM GOT THE RIGHT PLAYERS.

YOU CAN GET A FOUR STAR OR FIVE STAR ATHLETE BUT YOU GOT TO GET THE RIGHT PLAYERS THAT FIT YOUR SYSTEM THAT WILL BUY INTO WHAT YOU'RE DOING AND THAT ARE UNSELFISH.

>> AND HAVE SOMETHING TO PROVE, BECAUSE IF YOU'RE TRANSFERRING, YOU MAY NOT BE ALL THAT HAPPY WHERE YOU ARE OR SOMETHING ELSE COULD ATTRACT YOU SOMEWHERE ELSE.

IF YOU DON'T THINK YOU ARE RESPECTED OR GETTING A FAIR SHAKE, YOU COME TO ASU AND YOU MIGHT NOT BE A FIVE-STAR, IF YOU'RE A FOUR OR THREE, AND YOU HAVE PASSION, THAT MAKES A DIFFERENCE.

>> LOOK AT SAM LEAVITT WHO CAME FROM MICHIGAN STATE.

PLAYED A HANDFUL OF SNAPS LAST YEAR BUT THERE WAS A COACHING CHANGE AT MICHIGAN STATE.

THE COACH IS FROM OREGON STATE AND SAM IS FROM OREGON AND THAT COACH DIDN'T RECRUIT HIM.

HE DIDN'T WANT TO PLAY UNDER A COACH THAT NEVER RECRUITED HIM IN THE FIRST PLACE.

THE PROBLEM WITH THE NIL IS THE PREVIOUS REGIME WAS NOT NECESSARILY ON BOARD AND DIDN'T KNOW HOW TO NAVIGATE THAT, AND NOW THAT THERE'S A NEW COACH AND ATHLETIC DIRECTOR IN PLACE, THE TEAM'S HAD SUCCESS AND MORE DONORS WANT TO BUY IN.

BOOSTERS WANT TO BUY IN.

IT'S STEAM ROLLING AND PICKING UP SPEED NOW THAT THEY'VE SEEN SUCCESS.

>> AND ASU ON THE RECEIVING END OF GOOD PLAYERS, ARE THEY ABLE TO KEEP THESE GUYS AND KEEP KENNY DILLINGHAM?

>> KENNY IS LOCAL AND HE'S MADE THAT KNOWN.

THIS IS HIS DREAM SCHOOL.

THAT'S THE DIFFERENCE OF HAVING A COACH FROM HERE THAN ONE FROM OUT OF TOWN.

AND AS FAR AS THE PLAYERS, I THINK THE QUARTERBACK SAM LEAVITT IS GOING TO STAY.

OBVIOUSLY HE WOULD BE QUITE AN ATTRACTIVE PERSON ON THE OPEN MARKET, BUT ONE THING THIS YOUNG FRESHMAN QUARTERBACK DID IS TAKEN ALL OF THE MONEY HE'S EARNING THROUGH MERCHANDISE SALES AND PUTTING IT BACK INTO THE ASU COLLECTIVE FOR HIS TEAMMATES.

>> HOLY SMOKES.

>> SO THAT SHOWS HE'S ALL-IN AND WANTS TO BE HERE.

I UNDERSTAND THE FANS' CONCERN BUT I THINK THIS QUARTERBACK IS GOING TO BE HERE.

>> LAST QUESTION HERE.

SUCCESS STORIES LIKE THIS, ESPECIALLY WHEN IT COMES TO THE FOOTBALL PROGRAM, WHAT DOES IT MEAN TO THE SCHOOL AND THE SCHOOL'S ATHLETICS?

>> IT'S HUGE.

THE OTHER THING THAT YOU SEE IS BOBBY HURLEY THE BASKETBALL COACH AT FOOTBALL GAME IN DALLAS.

SO THE PROGRAMS ARE FEEDING OFF OF EACH OTHER AND DRAWING ENERGY FROM EACH OTHER.

I SEE MORE STUDENTS AT GAMES.

YOU SAW TWO GAMES WHERE FANS RUSHED THE FIELD.

>> YES.

>> THERE'S AN EXCITEMENT THAT HASN'T BEEN HERE FOR THIS PROGRAM IN A VERY LONG TIME.

>> MICHELLE GARDNER, EXCITEMENT FOR YOU, YOU GET TO COVER ALL THIS AND MORE TO COVER AS THEY GO OFF TO THE PLAYOFFS.

MICHELLE GARDNER, "ARIZONA REPUBLIC" COVERING THE ARIZONA SUN DEVILS.

>> DELIGHT TO TALK ABOUT THIS.

>> THAT'S IT FOR NOW.

I'M TED SIMONS.

THANK YOU FOR JOINING US.

YOU HAVE A GREAT EVENING.