A Cleveland mother was charged with aggravated murder in the deaths of her daughters, eight and ten.

It's a case that has drawn national attention and shocked the city.

Should Burke lakefront airport close?

The conversation took off this week.

And as Ohio Governor Mike DeWine works with less enthusiastic lawmakers to fund his signature water quality program, otters are spotted in the wild again, enjoying the healthier Cuyahoga River ideas.

Is next.

Hello and welcome to ideas.

I'm Mike McIntyre.

Thanks for joining us.

A 28 year old mother was charged with aggravated murder in the deaths of her daughters.

Eight and ten.

They were found stuffed in suitcases in a field near their home.

Should Burke Lakefront Airport closed, freeing the land for better access to the lake or should it be allowed to reach its full potential as a unique downtown asset?

All kinds of ideas were expressed at a Sound of Ideas community tour forum inside the airport terminal this week.

Data centers are drawing concern from potential neighbors and scrutiny from lawmakers.

Should they get tax breaks?

And otters are frolicking in Kent and they show the health of the Cuyahoga River there.

But will state leaders fund water quality measures?

Joining me to talk about these and other stories this week from Idea Stream public media environment reporter Zaria Johnson from news five Cleveland.

Reporter im Michele Jarboe and in Columbus Statehouse news bureau chief Karen Kasler.

Let's get ready to roundtable.

The deaths of two young girls and the arrest of their mother has made national headlines and shocked residents of Cleveland.

The girls were stuffed into suitcases and partially buried in a field near their home.

The 28 year old mother, Aliya Henderson, is being held on a $2 million bond.

And, Sara, let's get into some of the details to start.

Authorities have not confirmed that Henderson is the mother of the girls, but and this really just knocked me down.

There's a photo from 2019 that was taken by the great photographer Elisa de young from the plain Dealer, where they were doing a story.

And these kids are sitting there at a, wellness visit at Rainbow Babies and Children's Hospital with their mother.

So we presume based on that photograph that day that she's the mother.

Yeah, exactly.

Mike.

And it's, really just a heartbreaking case the more we learn about it.

I saw, I think it was Fox eight.

Spoke to Miller's father.

He wanted to stay anonymous, but he shared some stories about sort of, dealing with his relationship with, Alia Henderson.

Presumably their mother saying that he tried to get custody before, and she'd expressed that she might have been stressed out before, but she was giving, him.

And it seems like a moore's father as well.

A bit of a hard time in releasing custody, of the kids at that point.

And, you know, Mayor Justin Bibb has said that this is an unimaginable loss.

The county in a statement called it a tragedy for their families and our entire community.

So it just seems like one of those instances of how could this have happened right under our noses?

How could they have been in suitcases outside of a school and nobody had found them for however long?

And so it's just heartbreaking.

Case I saw this man who identified himself as the father, also on channel three, also on channel 19.

I think he'd, you know, they were going to the site and he was there, as well.

And yeah, he talked about, he's gone through Protective Services and he's gone through other things and she's and they weren't able to find the mom.

So that's part of that story, by the way, this is the whole conversation we had in that lobby on Tuesday was, how could this happen?

How could children be missing?

One question was, what about the schools and what I heard?

Mike, the councilman for that area, council member for that area, say was that he believe they were homeschooled.

But then there was also just speculation about where child services involved.

The county has already issued that.

We can't comment on anything.

There's a legal case, but there's just so many questions about how something like this can happen.

There was a third girl who was found when police went to this home right.

She's been put into county custody.

Yes, exactly.

Yeah.

It's, I believe not clear exactly how she might be related to Henderson or might be related to the other two girls, but, yeah, she's been removed from the home, and she's in county custody at this point.

While the investigation is ongoing, we don't know at this point how long their bodies were there.

We don't know.

At this point, really, any of the other facts, perhaps we'll find out a little bit more today.

As we said, the arraignment is happening now.

It really has struck home, Zaria, with the folks I was talking to.

And really with the reporters, I was just talking to Josh Bruce before you came on the air.

And, you know, reporters see a lot of things, and we cover a lot of stories.

This one seems to really be different.

And Josh was saying in his own case, it was like he was he was having trouble getting through these, these pieces.

And I just wonder some thoughts from you about, how this is hitting.

Yeah.

I mean, when I read and heard the first few stories, on Monday, it was, like, shocking.

It was surreal.

It didn't really.

I was having a hard time, like, understanding how something like this could happen.

And like I said, the more I learned about it, the more it nothing ever feels better, I guess.

Especially from a reporting standpoint, it's just this this is just one of those stories that just stick with you.

And when what you brought up, Ariel Castro and Anthony so.

Well, and growing up, I'd heard these names and I heard about these stories.

And so I think it's just, it feels a little bit like we're repeating history in that, in that way where these girls could be missing for so long and nobody knows and nobody reports it, and we're figuring out what shortcomings, you know, popped up along the way that led to it.

Yeah.

It was pretty, it seems, quick, police work.

I know that, Chief Andy Todd had talked about that, Michelle, that when they went to work on this, she said they used intelligence techniques, etc., but they pretty quickly zeroed in on this woman's house and had a search warrant.

Almost immediately.

Yes.

Actually, we had a news crew out on the street at the moment that this, team Swat team, essentially ascendant, descended on the house.

It was, a bizarre moment for my colleague who was out there waiting to do a live shot.

And and it it seems clear that the police, have put a tremendous amount of energy and time into into figuring this out, and, I don't know, I can't remember seeing something move quite this quickly.

Yeah.

From, you know, late Monday night when, an individual was walking his dog and found one of these suitcases, and that field two, you know, all the news that came out Wednesday evening about a person of interest and so on, right in this field is right, adjacent to, again, Academy.

It used to be a baseball field.

You can see it's kind of grown over and abandoned.

This man who, also was interviewed by a number of media outlets who found, the bodies.

What an experience for me.

He said he was walking his dog.

I think the dog goes off leash, and he just spent a little too much time sniffing over in that area.

Yeah, actually, I was working a late shift on Monday, and one of my colleagues, Scott Noel, ran, ran out when he saw a news release from police about the bodies found and ended up talking to that neighbor first.

And it was clear the man was just, that was not what he was expecting.

You know, he's watching his dog and he unzips the suitcase, and this is what he finds.

And then immediately called the police.

And then the police came out and found the second suitcase.

So just a horrible story.

If I mentioned earlier that there was an arraignment scheduled for nine, it has happened.

Lee Barr and I are.

Kathy, are our producers in the booth and monitoring it, letting me know.

And they said that, Judge Jeffrey Johnson issued a $2 million, bond.

And she did not speak, at, at that, arraignment.

So there is a bond.

She is, jailed and has been arraigned on those cases.

Yeah.

I think about the Ariel Castro case.

We were at the Plain Dealer at the time, and the civil case, it it's this is not a great way for Cleveland to get national headlines.

No.

And, you know, you were talking before about cases that really stick with journalists and whether or not you're directly covering the story there.

There are just these cases that for one reason or another, really strike you.

I mean, I remember in 2017 there was a case of a 14 year old girl, Iliana de Frise, who was kidnaped and brutalized and murdered at an abandoned house.

And, you know, I was on the periphery of that coverage at the time, but did do a story about these issues with abandoned houses in Cleveland.

And, just remember the heavy feeling of of covering those stories and knowing that, like, these were the things that Cleveland was getting attention for.

Cleveland is at a critical moment.

It can realize its potential as a world class, two waterfront city.

But to do that, Mayor Justin Bibb said Burke Lakefront Airport needs to close, and those 450 acres need to become a connection between the lakeshore and downtown.

But not everyone shared his opinion at a community forum hosted by Idea Stream this week.

The mayor wants to shut the airport by the end of his current term.

It was not a unanimous opinion at the forum.

Michele, you were there.

What about those?

And in fact, I think you were seated between two of these people.

Those folks who, who say that Burke needs to stay open because we we've heard people talk about Burke for decades here, and almost all the time, what I hear is, why the heck do we have an airport for rich people?

We need to have that as a, like Chicago.

We need some lakeshore and some beach and whatever it might be.

But at that forum, what we heard are the advocates, pilots and others who are saying we need an airport.

Well, certainly those folks know where Burke is and they know how to get it to come down for it.

Yeah.

So so, pilots and some aviation groups want Burke to stay open.

They say closing the airport is an irreversible decision that's going to force tenants out and put pressure on Hopkins and other airports in the region.

And they also believe that Burke has more potential, that the city hasn't properly managed or invested in, to its maximum potential.

Meanwhile, the proponents say, look, this is losing money.

It's being subsidized by the airlines at Hopkins, and it's 450 acres of lakefront real estate in a city where we have struggled to access our waterfront.

There's a higher and better use.

You know, they were saying two miles of the six between Edgewater and East 55th Marina is covered by airport.

So if imagine what could happen there.

One of the points that the pilot on the on the on the panel brought up net parks was that the land there is not the kind of thing you'd want to build anything on.

That's what he said.

And certainly you probably couldn't build skyscrapers there.

It used to be fill and, and now, it it's obviously land for airport.

Scott Skinner from the Waterfront Development Corporation said we know more about that property than pretty much any other property in the city of Cleveland.

What did he mean by that?

Well, it's publicly owned and it's been studied to death over time.

And, you know, unlike an industrial property down in the flats that a developer might be stepping in on and saying, okay, and we have to do all these environmental studies and figure out what the history is here.

You know, there is kind of a provenance on that, right?

There's a history there at City Hall.

The other thing I will say, about dirt is, you know, everything North of the Shore Way was the lake at one point.

So the Rock Hall is built on fell, right.

The the science center is built on fell, the existing football stadium that's going to be demolished come 2029 is built on felt.

So it is possible to build things on fell.

And in fact, by the Rock Hall.

There's also a small apartment building that was built on fill.

It's possible to build things like living space on that dirt.

It just, you know, you have to look at how stable it is and and then what you need to do in terms of foundations.

And you need to look at, you know, what the legacy uses were and whether there's cleanup that needs to happen.

So not tall buildings but buildings.

Yeah.

Which is what the city is talking about in the North Coast Waterfront Development Corporation.

We're talking about they're talking about low slung buildings and recreation space.

Yeah.

Zarrella they were talking about a lot of, walking trails and essentially a place for the public to go.

I know one of the big issues was, will it really be public?

Because a lot of the lakefront in many communities is for rich people and their homes and their backyards and their own docks or or yacht clubs, or in this case, an airport.

But that became one of the big issues was will we have access?

Yeah.

And that's been, a sticking point when it comes to this North Coast project since pretty much since I started reporting here at Idea Stream is the mayor has been pretty transparent about his own experience growing up in Cleveland and not really not knowing about the lake or not being able to access the lake growing up.

And he wants to make sure Lake Erie is more accessible for people across the board.

And that's what the goal of this North Coast project is.

So it sounds like, it's still top of mind for the city, and for its partners on this project is ensuring that whatever, whatever steps they take to expand access to the lakefront, it stays accessible to all people outside of income, race, things like that.

Okay.

You can join us at sorry at Ideo stream.org.

I know from that forum that a lot of people have a lot to say about Burke, so if you're one of them, feel free to send us an email.

So I at Ideo stream.org.

One of the points that the mayor brought up during that forum, mayor bib was also a part of that forum, was that Cleveland needs to become and embrace the idea of being a two waterfront city, and he really pointed to all of the activity that's happening on the Cuyahoga River, with Dan Gilbert and the Rock financial and the Cavaliers and all of that kind of stuff.

When he talked about that, there already is development planned for the lakefront.

But this is this is an extension of the runway.

What does he mean by two by two waterfront like this.

He's saying that this could be distinguishing us not just in the United States but in the world.

Yeah.

So he he's talking about this idea that we should make use of the riverfront and the lakefront, and that there should be opportunities for people to touch both of them and not have to pay a bunch of money to get there, and that it should be easier to get between the riverfront and the lakefront as well.

You know, that's that's one of the motivators for this land bridge and some other connectivity projects that are happening downtown.

Hey, as you alluded to this, the riverfront development being driven by, you know, Dan Gilbert's rock family companies, there's the Cavs practice facility under construction down there recently and announced plans for a new outdoor music venue.

But there's also going to be a lot of public space, and, and ways to step down and get to the river and even a kayak launch down there.

And the lakefront plans, though, they're still evolving, also include a significant amount of public space in the area north of where Brown Stadium is right now.

Okay.

We have an email from Larry.

He says the Burke, airport is an idea from the 50s.

It's past.

Its time.

We're not living in Cleveland of the 50s.

Most of the takeoffs and landings are from a flight school.

He says it's a waste of prime real estate.

The only people championing Burke are the people who use it, which isn't most of us.

And what's one of the things I made a point of when I did the introduction at that forum, which is that all of us knows where Burke is, but most people have never been there.

I mean, we don't have commercial flights anymore.

They used to be you get to fly to Cincinnati or Detroit or those type of things, but really it's if you're a pilot or a student or some of the other uses, or you're using it because you have a private jet.

Yeah.

It's also worth mentioning that it's used for medical transports like helicopters, organ donations.

I will say, if anybody's curious about the terminal there, you can just go down and walk in and there's the International Women's what is at the Air and Space Museum that's down there.

So cool.

There are a couple things to see.

But but yeah, if people are curious, you can just go walk around down there and see what it looks like and then see all of that land stretching out to the water.

I might have been in for my job once or twice there, but I do know one time I covered a story about helicopters over Cleveland.

The news helicopters and medical helicopters and the police helicopters.

And the one pilot allowed me to take the cyclic and try to control this helicopter, and it kept zipping to the right.

We're only like 30ft off the ground, but it kept zipping over the marginal and people stopped like it was the air show, like we meant it on purpose.

And this guy would pull it back from me because he had his own controller with the student pilot thing.

Anyway, I'm not a helicopter pilot.

I just don't ever get into a helicopter.

I just referenced the airshow.

What an amazing event that we have every year.

Yeah, and the person who runs the airshow, Kim Doyle, got up and said we need to have an airshow.

Yeah.

I'm glad you brought this up, cause my mom loves the airshow.

She said, Kim Dell said that closing park would be the kiss of death for the airshow is a big.

It's a big deal.

But, Bibb and Skinner and David Gilbert with Destination Cleveland, they all said that they're going to work to keep the airshow up and running, regardless of whether or not it closes.

So fingers crossed the airshow doesn't go anywhere.

I love the airshow, too.

Who does it?

Should data centers get a tax break?

Lawmakers are about to decide.

More than 200 data centers are located in Ohio.

There's a bunch more coming and a number of them to Northeast Ohio.

And Karen, let's start with the tariff.

Currently, AEP, imposes a tariff on data centers in its coverage area in central, southern and northwestern Ohio.

How does that work and what's the plan to extend it?

Well, it's basically, an order from the puco, the Public Utilities Commission of Ohio, that AEP has to kind of pay for the extra energy it's using.

And so, as we've all learned through the whole discussion of the Trump tariffs, a tariff is a tax essentially.

And so, this would kind of extend that to the entire state, because data centers are really using a lot of energy.

And the two sponsor of this bill, it's a bipartisan bill sponsored by David Thomas from Ashtabula, who is a Republican, and then Tristan Rader from the Lakewood area, who's a Democrat.

They say that this will actually make it so that communities will want data centers to come, because they won't be such a drain on energy in that area, because right now you've got communities that are passing moratoriums saying, we don't want more data centers.

We don't want any data centers because of what they do to the energy load that I use some initials and not say what they were American or American electric power.

Thank you.

I know somebody would catch that one before it got past the goalpost.

I appreciate that.

Now, House Republicans separately, Karen, are looking to end a sales tax exemption that they enjoy.

And there's some, some disagreement with, with the governor who says they should get the sales tax.

Let's talk about that.

This is complicated.

So what happened was that the, House and Senate Republicans put into the budget an elimination of a sales tax break.

The data centers get on construction materials to build those data centers.

Well, then governor Mike DeWine, when he vetoed 67 items in the budget, vetoed that.

So basically, the tax break stays.

Well, now you've got House Speaker Matt Huffman and Senate President Rob McCauley who want to override that veto.

So once again, eliminating that tax break for data centers with the construction materials that they buy, saying basically that data centers are already getting a lot of tax breaks with abatements and other things.

So there's no reason to treat data centers differently than you would treat another business coming into Ohio.

So this would be the second potential override.

Right after DeWine signed the budget, there was an override.

There were four items that were supposed to be, but only one got overridden.

This is potentially another one that we could see.

But what the data centers do is they they invest a lot of money and build a facility.

There's construction jobs.

But long term, for all the tax break that's given, they're literally a handful of jobs at these places.

Well, and that's been the whole issue with the question of how much money and revenue do they raise versus what the impact is in that area.

And they do have an impact on state revenue?

I'd have to I can't remember the number off the top of my head, but the Chamber of Commerce has looked into it saying it's like 95,000 jobs and more than $100 million in revenue that's coming in from these.

But you're right, after construction is done, there aren't that many jobs at data centers.

They're well-paying jobs, but they're not there that many jobs there.

Right.

And neighbors have been very vocal about not wanting data centers in a lot of places.

And sorry, I know you and Matt Richmond have been working on a story in Lorain County, a very vocal opposition to something, a new Russia township.

Yeah.

And that project's interesting because, it's not clear from developers, from the county commissioners that it'll officially be a data center, but that's what everybody's worried about, right?

That's what data centers are a hot topic right now.

And when you see this like thousand acre mega site popping up somewhere, the concern is that it's going to be a data center at the end of the day.

So things like, air pollution, light pollution, noise pollution and just like visual concerns of having this data center or potentially whatever right across the street, people are upset about that, they're concerned about that, and they want to protect their community from this development, regardless of what exactly it might be, especially if it's if it's a data center.

At the end of the day, Ohio House Speaker Matt Huffman does not like governor Mike DeWine's idea of funding H2 Ohio, the state's clean water initiative with state issued bonds.

So, Karen, the governor, this sounds almost like a legacy project for him.

He loves the work that's been done and the success that's happened.

He's going to deliver his final state of the state next week.

Is this a policy proposal that he's going to raise even though lawmakers are signaling no interest at this point?

Well, what's interesting is how we found out about this was, in the reporter gaggle with, Speaker Matt Hoffman after, a session in the house.

Somebody asked him, what do you expect to hear from DeWine in that last state of the state speech?

And Hoffman said, we've been talking about this possible bond issue to raise money for H2 Ohio, because DeWine had made a request for H2 Ohio, which is his multi-agency clean water initiative he started in 2019.

And lawmakers basically caught about 40% of it in the budget.

So we found out about this from the speaker who said he didn't want to do that.

I ask governor Mike DeWine, the next day, hey, what do you have to say about the speaker saying this?

And he said, well, he hasn't told me that.

And then he went on to kind of get a little bit more specific.

He really wants a bond issue on the November ballot.

This would be something voters would have to approve.

That would basically create a dedicated stream of money to H2 Ohio, because he said there has to be some consistency in building wetlands and things like that, or else all the progress that H2 Ohio is made in getting rid of those algal blooms.

And the phosphorus in the lake and in streams will be lost.

And there's already been a big cut to that.

So the question is where would further cuts even happen?

He wants there to be, as you said, a dedicated funding for that.

How did the those who are opposed to it say that they will steward the environment?

Well, that's a good question.

DeWine said he's talked to both of the leading candidates for governor, and he feels that they are supportive of H2 Ohio.

But he is concerned.

You're right.

When you said in the beginning that, this is kind of a legacy project for him.

It's one of the first projects he talked about in 2019 when he came into office.

And so I think he wants to make sure that there is some sort of funding and that there isn't this dependance on the legislature to fund this, because the legislature has shown with their cuts this last time that there are some other priorities that they would like to fund.

So, the Ohio Environmental Council, other environmental groups are very interested in this idea, and, they're they're on board.

All right.

We have to get to this because we have video and they're so cute.

Right?

But, Zaria, there were otters that were seen by the Cuyahoga River.

And it's not just the cuteness.

It turns out that this is a really good sign that the H2 Ohio, maybe it's H2 Ohio, maybe it's just the progress of time.

But the Cuyahoga River is doing well.

Yeah, the cute factor is a big part of it.

They were playing together.

It's really adorable.

But yeah.

Otters.

They need a healthy ecosystem in the Cuyahoga River in order to survive, let alone play and do all these cute, lovable, cute things.

So, Kent, representatives are basically saying that this is a sign that the Cuyahoga River is doing well ecologically, especially, thinking about sort of its troubled past with the river fire, the multiple river fires and infamous river fire.

In 1969, otters were reintroduced into the Cuyahoga River in 1986.

And so spotting them along the river is a good sign that the reintroduction is going well, that the ongoing remediation work along the river is working, and that, the quality of the Cuyahoga River is improving overall.

Good news it's Friday.

The weekend is almost here.

Bad news we lose an hour of that weekend as we spring ahead.

Sunday.

At least we'll have more light in the evenings.

Big Matt, here I come.

It's the time of year.

The fire department is also on the Red cross.

Recommend you change the batteries in your smoke and carbon monoxide detector.

So that's a warning for you now.

Or an admonition, please get that done.

But, time change.

Is it going to ruin the day for you?

Michelle, you're gonna be late everywhere on Monday.

I have a first grader, so any any time change messes everything up and my heart goes out to all of the parents of young children.

All right.

Fair.

What about you?

Sorry, I don't have any kids, but I run late regardless of what time it is.

So you run extra late.

You know, just expect that Monday morning, okay?

Our staff meeting is going to be at noon.

Thanks.

Appreciate.

Okay.

Not 11.

And, Karen, what about you?

Well, again, I have my own time zone, so, you know, I know I want time moves for you.

For sure.

Monday on the Sound of Ideas on 89 seven Wksu.

You can check out that community tour conversation focused on the future of Lakefront Airport.

I'm Mike McIntyre.

Thank you so much for watching and stay safe.