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♪ David: And Paterson, has the state already overstayed its welcome.

It is "Reporters Roundtable."

I am David Cruz.

Welcome back.

We hope you had a nice summer.

Or sun-kissed panel of journalists includes Colleen O'Dea, Senior writer and project editor at NJ Spotlight News.

Charlie style, communist -- colonist.

-- columnist.

We will say -- we will say hello to them formally in a few minutes.

We are asking the question, is it already time for them to get out?

We will pose that question to our next guest.

He is the mayor of Paterson.

It is a pleasure to welcome back the mayor.

Welcome.

>> Thank you, David.

I'm glad to be back.

David: Good to see you.

It has been almost a year and a half now, just after the death of Najee Seabrooks.

A real low point in police community relations in your city.

When it happened, the takeover, you were kind of muted in your response.

Can you first start by telling us how all that happens?

How much advance notice do you get when something like that occurs?

>> Actually, it was March 27, 2023, and I received a conversation -- a phone call around 8:00 in the morning, telling me he was in my Police Department and taking over.

At that point, I am saying to myself, I did not get advance notice and this is something as far as police relations with the public is concerned something we were working on.

If you would have given me the courtesy of a meeting or a phone call weeks prior to this stunning phone call, which I thought was entirely inappropriate and unprofessional, I would have been able to let him know what we were working on.

We were engaged in serious conversation with the Rucker Center on policing and I had already scheduled a trip to Omaha to learn more about Omaha 360, a proven program to help improve not only the relationship between the police and the public, but to reduce crime in urban centers like Paterson.

David: We will get to more of that in a couple seconds, but are you telling me you got a call on the day that these guys showed up in your Police Department?

>> Yes.

I received a phone call informing me he was taking over my Police Department.

The way we have been able to position Paterson for progress is their partnerships.

I believe in collaboration.

But he had no interest in being a partner, no interest in collaboration.

Many believe he was looking to further his own political ambitions.

Our city is not a steppingstone.

David: I did not know that is how that happened.

In the beginning, your response was kind of muted, and immediately they started saying how great a job was going on there.

What were you doing while all that was happening?

You really could not have a role.

>> As you know, being a mayor is multifaceted, so there were other items like economic development, a whole host of projects, improving our parks and focusing on recreation for our youth.

You keep alluding to the muted response.

I did not know what to make of it.

The Attorney General gives you a call and tells you he is taking over your department, this is almost unprecedented.

That is why we are challenging this.

We believe what he did was illegal, that it goes against Home rule come potentially violates the Faulkner act.

We believe what he did was undemocratic.

Let me elaborate on that one.

I have been duly elected by the voters of Paterson twice, by large margins.

And who better than the mayor to know the needs and wants of the residents?

Quite frankly, that flies in the face of that.

And our case has been solidified by the municipalities.

They joined us.

Now you're talking about all 564 towns and cities saying we don't agree with what Matt Platkin has done.

David: They released a statement to that effect.

But the department just had a bunch of promotions, they talked about major improvements to the relations with the community.

Is that not happening?

>> I am a resident of Paterson, so I will tell you, speaking from the perspective of someone who has lived in Paterson his entire life, what we noticed early on when they came in, in those first three months of that year, we saw a sharp reduction in shootings.

66% decline.

And 30% reduction in homicides.

I am not sure how they are measuring their trust factor.

I still feel there is an element of trust that does not exist between the police and public, and that is why I want to allude to the Omaha 360 initiative and the partnership I was looking to forge with the Rucker center on policing.

Then I think you would see some measurable results.

David: Let me get a question in here.

Ken, you had a question?

>> I did.

Hello, Mayor.

One of the things I'm going to name, I have perfect familiarity with it.

Baltimore, Ferguson, Missouri, Rankin County, Mississippi, and within the last year, Trenton, New Jersey.

These are cities that have had similar policing issues as far as police-community relations, only they had the federal Justice Department come in to investigate them for a pattern of practice.

You admitted there are some issues in Paterson.

My question is, what makes Paterson, New Jersey, different from any other state that has had police-community relations and somebody has had to step in to try to fix it?

>> What makes us different is the fact that two things I did when I first got in, because I realize this predates me.

You had corrupt cops, called the robbery squad, and it was our the -- it was our police to permit that turned them into the FBI and all of them were some -- summarily arrested.

I was elected, reelected, and one of the planks of my platform was to improve the relationship between the police and the public.

As I stated before, I went to Omaha to learn about their program on how to improve or restore trust between the police and the public, and also reduce violent crime in the city.

I was actively engaged in the conversations with John Farmer from the Rucker center on how we can form a partnership to address an area we needed to improve.

If I could also point to in 2019, I outlined my tools for trusts.

One of them was having a conference of audit of my Police Department to find out where are these areas for improvement?

And also, prior to taking office, not a single police officer in Paterson was wearing a body camera.

No every single police officer in Paterson wears a body camera.

So, we are determined to improve public safety and the way we protect and serve our residents in Paterson.

David: Mayor, what is the plan now in terms of starting to get the state to extricate itself from your city?

Are you going to file suit?

>> We have filed suit, and Tuesday is the showdown.

There will be oral arguments this Tuesday before the state appellate court and that is when we will have the opportunity to have our moment to point out that what we believe that Matt Platkin did was illegal and undemocratic.

David: Paterson Mayor André Sayegh, thank you for taking a few minutes with us.

Good to see you.

>> Thank you, David.

David: Alright, panel, welcome back.

Charles, Kenneth, Colleen, we hope you enjoyed your summers.

What is André Sayegh up to hear?

Is he seriously trying to get his town back or positioning himself or something in the future?

>> I take him at his word.

Certainly he would not be in politics if he was not planning for a future in office.

His name was thrown about as a possibility for a brief while for replacement of Bill Pascrell, or succeeding Bill Pascrell.

I think he is definitely serious about it.

I think the question really comes down to whether he is going to outside groups for reform ideas and concepts in Omaha and Rutgers and whether it will be sufficient enough to address the simmering problems there.

That is a fair debate.

I don't know.

It seemed after the Najee Seabrooks case, and it was a tipping point and something dramatic had to be done.

Whether it means showing up unannounced is the way to do it with the Army of the Attorney General's office is the way to do it -- but there was a sense of the time that things had careened out of control.

David: It is not like Paterson was doing that great for the state got there, right?

>> Yeah, and that is what I would like to point out, rightly or wrongly, in terms of the A.G. just showing up.

It seems like there was a swift action that needed to be taken.

The Najee Seabrooks case was similar to what we saw in Fort Lee earlier this year where there is someone in a mental health crisis, police are barging in when they are not wanted to barge in, and it is a terrible fatal consequence.

I can tell you that the reporting we did showed that between 2019 and March of 2023, there had been eight deaths related to police actions, six of them were shooting in the city of Paterson.

That was by far the most of any place in New Jersey.

And the use of force by police was also disproportionate against black and Hispanic residents, again compared with the rest of the state.

Clearly there were problems with the police in Paterson.

David: Switching gears here now, a judge approved settlements on the partyline lawsuits with a few municipalities.

Was there any doubt this was going to happen?

>> Not in my mind, to be honest.

When a federal judge says plaintiff's have a viable case that they will likely be successful at, you start making changes before it goes that far.

I have a feeling that come 2025, I would be surprised if any County in New Jersey uses the county line ballots.

David: Ding dong, the line is dead, right?

>> One would hope.

The fact that Middlesex County settled, and Middlesex County is a hugely powerful Democratic machine County I think is a big part of the deathknell.

David: Any evidence that organizations are finding a way to get around blocked ballots and that sort of thing?

Or is it too early, maybe?

>> I think it is a little too early.

Just as a footnote, I have heard complaints about foot dragging among the Mercer County Democratic committee, for some of the progressive wing, about moving into the new block ballot permanently.

I am not sure everybody is rushing to face the inevitable or surrender to the inevitable tide.

I think what you will probably see are the county parties readjust and readapt and flex their muscle in other ways that we didn't see in the last primary.

They have tremendous resources, they have personnel, and a lot of people tied to County jobs.

So, I think they are just going to adapt to the situation with the resources and enormous advantages they have.

I don't think you are going to see reform candidates right away topple machine candidates in the next couple cycles.

It is going to take a long while for those candidates, those challengers, to reach parity.

But at least now the doors open and they have access.

David: Continuing on politics, as we head into the fall races we should watch, does Bashar really have a shot?

>> Based on statistics, no.

But I am a political science major and somebody told me a long time we are bad fortunetellers.

It will be an exciting race.

I am looking at the district with Sue Altman.

That will be competitive for sure.

For my purposes, it will be interesting to see what happens in district 2 between Joe Salerno and Jeff Van Drew.

Jos Alanna -- Joe Salerno will be the first to get some kind of vengeance on Jeff Van Drew for flipping carnies.

David: Elon Musk in CD 7.

[laughter] >> Sue Altman maybe has a little bit of a disadvantage in her initial Sue Altman since the King campaign continues to put out emails saying Sue Altman loves taxes.

All the homeowners do not like the cap.

Other than the open Senate race, which makes it interesting, we still as of last night don't have a full throated endorsement from the governor of New Jersey saying a member of the party.

I think that is interesting, but I could not imagine the Republican winning that seat.

Then it is just the seventh.

I have already got -- they are up here if you want to see them.

Mailer after mailer.

David: [laughter] She comes with props.

>> The party is getting involved and helping him.

I am not sure he needs financial help right now.

Because the district does have more Republican voters or Republican registrants than Democratic registrants, and it is not the same district it was when Tom Malinowski flipped it in 2018.

I think it is going to be a hard fight for Sue Altman, but it really is the only game in town on the house side.

>> Recently, I asked on your local NPR station, the governor said Andy Kim did not ask him for an endorsement and he only does endorsements for people who ask him and checked in with a source close to the campaign.

They said Andy Kim did not ask the governor for an endorsement.

David: I asked the governor that very "Chat Box question on "Chat Box --I asked that very question on "Chat Box" this week.

Let me ask you your favorite political question.

It concerns the Senate race in New Jersey.

Let me ask it this way.

If Andy Kim asks for your endorsement, would you give it?

>> I don't see why I wouldn't.

It is no secret he was not my first choice.

Having said that, this is so important to get the right person in there voting for the Senate Majority Leader, so there is no question where I am going to vote.

He has said publicly he is not seeking endorsements from political leaders, including us.

Completely his prerogative.

I completely accept it.

But the fact of the matter is, this is an incredibly important election and it matters who you vote for.

David: He is the better candidate in your mind?

>> He is.

I know both guys as individuals.

They are both really good guys, but I am a Democrat through and through.

David: Democrats hate to hear your standardbearer say the other guy is a nice guy.

>> He is a nice guy.

I don't know what else to say.

What I heard he was running for the Senate, I said to my guys back whenever Curtis announced, I thought he was a Democrat all these years.

But listen, there is no question where I'm going to vote.

There is too much at stake to make sure we get the majority leader in the Senate, particularly in a year where the Senate is in the balance here.

We talk about the white house a lot.

We don't talk as much about the Senate as we should.

It is a tough map for Democrats this year, so let's take the ones we know we can get.

David: Anything jumping out at you in terms of races to watch, or are we covered?

>> I think CD 7 is the most interesting one.

I think Colleen explained that really well.

The challenges that Sue Altman is facing, also the fact that they, the Kim campaign, will use every opportunity they can to remind Sue Altman she was a leader of the New Jersey working families party, a progressive activist, and an aggressive progressive activist group.

The one thing, and there is some anxiety I see manifested in that investment coming from outside groups, is the Harris factor and the enthusiasm factor, and among women voters.

It is really sort of a big question mark whether there is this real quiet undetected revolt that is not being picked up on the radar.

I think that is what they are trying to hedge against right now.

>> If I can make just one other quick point.

We are not going to hear from Tom Kean because Tom Kean does not talk to the press and he does not talk to people unless he does it behind closed doors and the people were invited.

I think there may be one debate by the globe, but I think that is a real disservice to the voters in the district.

>> I totally agree.

It is a disservice to the debate and politics.

But from Kean's point of view, it has worked twice already, so I change it?

David: As Michael Aron would say, let's move on.

This is the first roundtable since the death of our founding editor and friend Michael Aron.

While we are all saddened by the news of his passing, I have to admit that I was more moved to remember his incredible contributions to this network and to journalism in New Jersey.

What a great run you had, my friend.

Thanks for everything.

Charlie, you want to add something to that?

>> No, I have expressed myself on this show, and I just want to say I really just miss him.

David: Colleen?

>> Absolutely agreed.

He just was so encouraging to me.

He was the first person who got me to feel confident enough to come on this show.

He was just the consummate professional journalist.

Totally miss him.

David: A nice tribute over your shoulder.

Do you want to add something real quick?

>> Everyone has said it for me, but I will just say, as someone who is from Maryland and watched his work from afar, it was inspiring work as a journalist, especially in politics.

David: That was a great part right there.

We were at the convention.

He was talking about all the badges people get.

Michael, we miss you, we love you, buddy.

Time for our only in Jersey moments, headlines and notes that are quintessentially New Jersey.

Colleen, you got one?

>> I just got back from vacation and we flew out of terminal A in Newark, and this is something that at least half the population will never see because it was in the ladies room.

They have really brought the whole Jersey thing to another level in the stalls in the ladies room, or at least on one level, painted a la Jersey shore.

I think it helps with the whole process, given where you are, to see these little waves there.

They are not moving, obviously.

But I thought it quite interesting.

I have not seen that in any other bathroom anywhere.

I do want to say, I enjoy the large NJ as well, which we found as we were leaving and came back into the states.

But I think there might have been a mistake in that everyone is taking selfies and there is no way you can see this giant NJ's.

So you might want to think about that, Port Authority.

David: Good point.

Kenny, do you got one?

>> I caught up with CJ Griffin the other day.

Two weeks into the new bill being in effect, agencies are denying requests for emails left and right because of the specific subject standard we now have.

The state has not fully implemented their online portal with the new requirements.

Keep in mind, when it comes to putting things online in New Jersey, the New Jersey State police have not updated their crime stats in more than 1200 days.

Only in New Jersey where the street -- the state treats public information for me, not for thee.

David: I hear a lot about that from a lot of towns.

Charlie, you wanted to say something?

>> Awesome point made by Kennedy.

-- awesome point made by Kenny.

I want to add it is time to end that Wow New Jersey tourism campaign.

It's a frankly awful.

[laughter] It is juvenile.

I don't understand what it is about.

David: Small state, big fun, right?

Did you ever think of New Jersey as a small state?

>> Just that wow voice going off in the background.

I don't know what that guy did before he started.

David: Certainly not perfect together.

>> We need to start recognizing my part of the state.

David: Yeah.

>> I have said my piece.

[laughter] David: Mine comes from my hometown, where I was honored to be asked to serve as the main stage emcee for the inaugural Jersey City Latin Jazz Festival.

It is no secret how much I love this music and how much I love this city, but organizers did a tremendous job of curating some amazing talent and fostering a vibe that was so fantastical it actually got some people high.

♪ David: Only in Jersey.

Latin Jazz Festival to kick off Hispanic heritage month.

Thanks to everyone at Riverview Jazz.

>> Was that you dancing?

David: No, that was not me.

[laughter] That is "Reporters Roundtable" for this week.

Thanks to Paterson Mayor André Sayegh.

Follow us on X.

If you like this content, share it and subscribe to our YouTube channel to find the work of other great journalists here.

For all the crew here at Gateway Center in downtown Newark, thanks for watching.

We will see you next week.

Announcer: Major funding for "Reporters Roundtable with David Cruz" is provided by RWJ Barnabas Health.

Let's be healthy together.

♪