>> Announcer: MAJOR FUNDING FOR "REPORTERS ROUNDTABLE" WITH DAVID CRUZ IS PROVIDED BY NEW JERSEY REALTORS, THE VOICE FOR REAL ESTATE IN NEW JERSEY.

MORE INFORMATION IS ONLINE AT NJREALTOR.COM.

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PROMOTIONAL SUPPORT IS PROVIDED BY "NEW JERSEY BUSINESS MAGAZINE," THE MAGAZINE OF THE NEW JERSEY BUSINESS AND INDUSTRY ASSOCIATION, REPORTING TO EXECUTIVE AND LEGISLATIVE LEADERS IN ALL 21 COUNTIES OF THE GARDEN STATE SINCE 1954.

AND BY POLITICO'S "NEW JERSEY PLAYBOOK," A TOPICAL NEWSLETTER ON GARDEN STATE POLITICS, ONLINE AT POLITICO.COM ♪♪ ♪♪ >>> A RED LINE RIGHT THROUGH OUR LEGISLATIVE MAPS.

HI, EVERYBODY, I'M DAVID CRUZ.

THIS IS "REPORTERS ROUNDTABLE."

JOINING US ARE THREE WISE CARTOGRAPHERS WHO COVER THE STATE AND THE STATE HOUSE, MATT FRIEDMAN IS AUTHOR OF THE NEW JERSEY PLAYBOOK AND A REPORTER FOR POLITICO.

SEAN SULLIVAN IS A REPORTER FOR NJ ADVANCED MEDIA, AND MICHAEL HILL IS THE HOST OF MORNING EDITION FOR WNYC.

WE'LL HEAR FROM THEM IN JUST A FEW MINUTES, BUT LET'S BEGIN TODAY WITH THE POLITICAL MACHINATIONS SURROUNDING LEGISLATIVE REDISTRICTING.

PARTICULARLY IN HUDSON COUNTY THIS WEEK, WHERE THERE WAS A BIG SHAKE-UP.

ONE OF THE PEOPLE CREDITED OR BLAMED FOR FORCING CHANGES IN THE MAP AND THE LAWMAKERS TIED TO IT IS THE MAYOR OF JERSEY CITY, DEMOCRAT STEVE FULHAM.

MAYOR, WELCOME.

>> GOOD TO SEE YOU, DAVID.

>> SO, YOU HAD TO GO TO COURT TO STOP THE MAP THAT THE COMMITTEE SEEMED READY TO PASS.

WHAT WAS IT ABOUT THE MAP THAT BOTHERED YOU SO MUCH?

>> WELL, LOOK, I THINK THERE WERE FEDERAL ISSUES AND STATE CONSTITUTION ISSUES WITH REGARDS TO DIVIDING JERSEY CITY UP INTO THREE DISTRICTS AND YOU KNOW, FROM MY STANDPOINT, IT WOULD HAVE JUST DILUTED THE INFLUENCE OF JERSEY CITY IN TRENTON ISSUES AND WE SENT THE LETTER TO THE JUDGE AND I GUESS HE THOUGHT THERE WAS SOME VALIDITY TO IT.

>> SO, YOU ENDED UP WITH A MAP THAT PUTS SENATORS NICK AND BRIAN STACK IN THE SAME DIRECT AND FOR A FEW DAYS, WE IN THE PRESS, ANYWAY, WERE LICKING OUR CHOPS IN ANTICIPATION OF A BARE-FISTED HUDSON COUNTY THROWDOWN.

WHAT ROLE, IF ANY, DID YOU PLAY IN ANY OF THE NEGOTIATIONS THAT GOT SAKO TO RETIRE, WHICH HE ANNOUNCED THIS WEEK.

>> I WANT TO SAY, DAVID, GO BACK TO THE DRAWING OF THE MAP, THAT THIS WAS NOT THE ONLY SOLUTION.

YOU COULD HAVE HAD BRIAN MOORE IN JERSEY CITY, SENATOR STACK, OR SENATOR SAKO MOVING MORE NORTH INTO BERGEN COUNTY, SO THERE WERE OTHER SOLUTIONS THAT WERE PROBLEMATIC, POLITICALLY, I SUPPOSE, BUT THEY ULTIMATELY RECOGNIZED THAT MAY POINTS WERE FROM A LEGAL STANDPOINT, AND SO THAT'S WHERE WE ENDED UP.

WITH REGARDS TO THE RESOLUTIONS THAT THEY'RE TALKING ABOUT ON THE COUNTY EXECUTIVE AND THE CHAIR, YOU KNOW, MOST OF THE MAYORS GET TOGETHER IN HUDSON COUNTY, HAVE CONVERSATIONS AROUND WHAT IS THE BEST WAY TO MOVE FORWARD TO TRY TO KEEP SOME TOGETHERNESS IN THE COUNTY.

YOU KNOW, I WOULDN'T SAY THAT I HAVE A DISPROPORTIONATE INFLUENCE ON THAT PROCESS, BUT WE'RE PART OF THE CONVERSATION, AND YOU GO FROM THERE.

>> WHEN WE TALKED A LITTLE BIT ABOUT THIS EARLIER IN THE WEEK, YOU HAD SUGGESTED THAT YOU THOUGHT THAT NICK MIGHT LOOK AT RETIREMENT ANYWAY.

I MEAN, THE MAN HAS FOUR JOBS.

>> LOOK, I'M NOT JUDGING ANYBODY'S NUMBER OF JOBS.

HE'S A HARD-WORKING GUY, AND I JUST THOUGHT, FROM CONVERSATIONS OVER THE LAST SIX OR EIGHT MONTHS WITH HIM, THAT HE WAS THINKING ABOUT RETIRING, SO THIS MAYBE JUST NUDGED HIM A LITTLE BIT TO CALL IT A LITTLE SOONER THAN HE WOULD HAVE LIKED TO, BUT MORE THAN LIKELY, HE WASN'T GOING TO RUN ANYWAY NEXT YEAR.

>> THE MAP ALSO SHIFTED THE DISTRICTS AROUND ENOUGH TO CREATE A VACANCY IN WHAT IS THE NEW 33rd DISTRICT, I THINK, WHICH YOUR FRIEND, ASSEMBLYMAN RAJ SAYS HE'LL RUN FOR AND FOR WHICH HE'S GOTTEN SEVERAL DOZEN ENDORSEMENTS ALREADY.

I ASSUME INCLUDING YOURS.

>> YEAH.

I WAS EARLY.

RAJ IS A TERRIFIC GUY, A SMART GUY, DYNAMIC, GETS ALONG WITH VIRTUALLY EVERYBODY AROUND NEW JERSEY.

HE'S DEFINITELY GOING TO ADD TO THE HUDSON DELEGATION FROM A QUALITY OF LEGISLATIVE STANDPOINT, AND I'M EXCITED.

I THINK IT'S A GREAT THING FOR JERSEY CITY.

SO, YOU KNOW, WHEN YOU LOOK AT THE CHANGES IN THE MAP, JERSEY CITY CERTAINLY BENEFITTED HAVING A RAJ OR ANY SENATOR REPRESENTING THE MAJORITY OF THE CITY HERE.

>> AND FOR YOU, JUST PLAYING POLITICS AND THE SERVICES FOR THE CITY, YOU GOT YOUR GUYS IN THERE.

YOU'RE PRETTY CLOSE WITH BRIAN STACK AND RAJ IS YOUR BUDDY.

YOU ENDORSED HIM.

ALL THESE OTHER PEOPLE ENDORSED HIM.

CAN YOU SEE WHY SOME PEOPLE THINK, WOW, THEY JUST CROWN THESE GUYS?

WHAT ABOUT COMPETITIVE PRIMARIES?

WHAT WOULD YOU SAY TO SOMEONE WHO SAID THE STEVE PHILLIP OF 2013 WOULD HAVE BEEN RAILING AGAINST THIS KING MAKING.

>> YOU COULD STILL RUN OUTSIDE OF THAT STRUCTURE.

I'VE DONE IT BEFORE.

WHEN I RAN AGAINST MAYOR HEALY, PRESIDENT OBAMA ENDORSED MAYOR HEALY.

IT WAS ONE OF TWO RACES IN THE COUNTRY THAT THE PRESIDENT ENGAGED IN.

AND I ENDED UP BEING SUCCESSFUL.

WE RAN A GOOD CAMPAIGN WITH A STRONG MESSAGE AND WE DIDN'T LOOK FOR SCAPEGOATS OR EXCUSES, WE JUST WORKED HARD AND ANYBODY CAN DO THAT.

SO I KNOW -- >> IS THAT YOU SAYING THAT YOU'RE OKAY WITH THE CURRENT SYSTEM THAT -- WHAT THEY CALL THE LINE?

YOU'RE OKAY WITH THAT SYSTEM?

>> I THINK THERE SHOULD BE SOME CHANGES TO THE PROCESS AROUND THE LINE.

I THINK THAT'S FAIR.

I THINK WHEN YOU LOOK AT THE HISTORY, THERE'S PROBABLY BEEN SOME ISSUES WITH REGARDS TO THE SENTIMENT THAT MAYBE WE'RE NOT INCLUSIVE AS MUCH AS WE CAN BE, AND THAT'S A FAIR CRITICISM AND THERE'S WAYS TO IMPROVE IT.

I THINK WITHOUT ABOLISHING THE LINE.

THE LINE TENDS TO LEAD TO MONEY AND CREDIBILITY, RIGHT?

BUT AS LONG AS PEOPLE ARE ALLOWED TO ASSOCIATE OR ENDORSE OTHER PEOPLE, WHICH IS ALLOWED ANYWHERE IN THE COUNTRY, THE LINE CAN MOVE FROM COLUMN A TO COLUMN C TO COLUMN D, SO JUST SAYING THAT BECAUSE YOU'RE IN COLUMN A OR B IS THE REASON THAT PEOPLE WIN IS REALLY NOT UNDERSTANDING THE POLITICAL PROCESS.

SO, I THINK YOU'RE ALWAYS GOING TO HAVE PEOPLE ASSOCIATING TOGETHER.

CAN YOU IMPROVE THE PROCESS?

YOU CAN.

BUT THE CONCEPT OF THE LINE STRICTLY DRIVING RESULTS IS NOT REALLY THE WAY IT WORKS.

>> YOU GET TEN DIFFERENT ARGUMENTS ON THAT, BUT WE DON'T HAVE TIME FOR IT.

>> I'M HAPPY TO HAVE THOSE ARGUMENTS.

>> SPECULATION IS ALREADY RESTARTED ABOUT YOU AND YOUR POLITICAL FUTURE.

I THINK YOU SAID THAT THIS WAS YOUR LAST TERM AS MAYOR.

WHAT ARE YOU THINKING ABOUT?

LET ME ASK YOU THIS INSTEAD.

YOU'VE BEEN A LEGISLATOR AND A CHIEF EXECUTIVE.

AS YOU LOOK FORWARD TO YOUR NEXT PHASE IN LIFE, WHICH ONE HAS BEEN MOST SATISFYING FOR YOU?

>> CHIEF EXECUTIVE, THERE'S NO QUESTION ABOUT THAT.

THE ABILITY TO HAVE THE OPPORTUNITY TO REALLY SET THE AGENDA IS MUCH MORE REWARDING, ABLE TO SEE MORE PROGRESS.

YOU KNOW, LOOK, I'M NOT RULING ANYTHING OUT AS IT RELATES TO WHAT MY POLITICAL FUTURE IS, INCLUDING JERSEY CITY.

I LOVE THIS JOB, DAVID.

I REALLY DO.

>> SO YOU WOULD RUN AGAIN?

>> I DON'T KNOW.

AFTER THREE TERMS, YOU TEND TO THINK THAT MAYBE IT'S TIME FOR OTHER PEOPLE WITH FRESH IDEAS.

>> OR GET OUT WHILE YOU CAN?

>> OR GET OUT WHILE YOU CAN.

I MEAN, I -- LOOK, WE'RE STILL DOING OKAY, AND I THINK THAT, YOU KNOW, PEOPLE ARE STILL GENERALLY SUPPORTIVE OF THE DECISIONS WE'VE MADE, BUT I'M REALISTIC THAT OVER TIME, PEOPLE LIKE TO SEE FRESH IDEAS.

SO -- AND I'M NOT IMMUNE TO THAT, SO YOU'RE NOT GOING TO SEE ME HERE FOR 25 YEARS, THAT I CAN ASSURE YOU.

>> AND YOU HAVEN'T RULED OUT GOVERNOR.

>> WELL, HAVEN'T -- WE HAVEN'T RULED IT OUT.

>> YOU HAVEN'T RULED IT IN OR OUT IS WHAT YOU'RE SAYING.

>> IT WOULD BE REALLY EARLY TO RULE IT IN.

I'VE BEEN DOWN THIS ROAD WITH EXPLORING IT IN 2014 AND '15 AND THEN I RECOGNIZED THAT IT JUST WOULDN'T WORK AT THAT TIME AND I LOVED THE JOB THAT I HAD SO I OPTED NOT TO RUN.

SO, IT WOULD BE HARD FOR ANYBODY AT THIS STAGE TO COMMIT TO SAYING THAT I'M DOING THIS OR NOT DOING THAT BUT I'M DEFINITELY NOT RULING IT OUT AND WE GOT A LOT OF RELATIONSHIPS AROUND NEW JERSEY AND I'M FORTUNATE TO HAVE BUILT A PRETTY GOOD TRACK RECORD HERE WITH A GOOD TEAM, SO YOU KNOW, WE'LL SEE WHERE THE KIND OF -- WHERE THE SHIFTS IN NEW JERSEY TAKE US OVER THE NEXT COUPLE YEARS.

AS YOU SAW LAST WEEK, THINGS CHANGE PRETTY QUICK IN NEW JERSEY.

>> YEAH.

LET ME GET A LOCAL QUESTION IN HERE.

YOU HAVE AN INTERIM SUPERINTENDENT OF SCHOOLS, NORMA FERNANDEZ, SHE'S IN THERE NOW.

YOUR PUBLIC SCHOOL SYSTEM IS LARGELY LATINO.

DR. FERNANDEZ SEEMS PRETTY QUALIFIED, FORMER VICE PRINCIPAL AND PRINCIPAL, BILINGUAL, YEARS IN THE SYSTEM, ALL OF THAT.

HOME GROWN.

WOULD YOU ENDORSE HER FOR FULL-TIME STATUS AS SUPERINTENDENT OF SCHOOLS?

>> YOU KNOW, I THINK IT'S A LITTLE PREMATURE FOR THAT.

I HAVE SOME ISSUES RIGHT NOW THAT WE'VE BROUGHT FORWARD TO THE BOARD OF EDUCATION THAT WE NEED SOME HELP WITH ON THE CITY SIDE.

RENOVATING A MASSIVE SPORTS COMPLEX THAT THE CITY WANTED TO TAKE OWNERSHIP FOR, FOR DRIVING THE RENOVATION FOR THE SCHOOLS, SOME OF THE SHIFTING OF POPULATIONS TO SOLVE SOME OF THE BUSSING ISSUES.

I'D LIKE TO SEE SOME RESULTS AROUND THOSE ISSUES AND REALLY HOW I ENGAGE IN THE SUPERINTENDENT SEARCH IS GOING TO BE BASED ON WHAT SHE DOES OVER THE NEXT COUPLE MONTHS.

I THINK SHE'S GREAT.

SHE'S EASY TO WORK WITH, BUT I JUST WANT TO SEE SOME TANGIBLE RESULTS ON THOSE SPECIFIC THINGS.

>> ALL RIGHT, LASTLY, AS YOU KNOW, THERE'S A SMALL BUT CLOSE-KNIT UKRAINIAN COMMUNITY AROUND THE CITY.

WHAT HAVE YOU BEEN HEARING FROM MEMBERS OF THAT COMMUNITY ABOUT THE SITUATION IN THE UKRAINE?

>> WELL, OBVIOUSLY, A LOT OF CONCERN.

WE HAVE A LARGER UKRAINIAN COMMUNITY THAN PEOPLE MIGHT THINK.

WE HAVE A VERY LARGE UKRAINIAN CENTER, AND THERE'S AN EVENT TONIGHT WHICH I WILL BE ATTENDING AROUND INCREASING AWARENESS FROM THE UKRAINIAN COMMUNITY HERE TO THE BROADER PUBLIC, AND THAT WILL BE THIS EVENING.

I BELIEVE AT 7:00 P.M.

DOWNTOWN HERE.

BUT YOU KNOW, THE REALITY IS THAT THEY'RE LOOKING FOR SUPPORT, BOTH ON THE LOCAL LEVEL AND TO ADVOCATE FOR MORE SUPPORT ON THE INTERNATIONAL LEVEL, AND WE'RE GOING TO DO OUR BEST TO BE SUPPORTIVE OF OUR RESIDENTS THAT HAVE FAMILY MEMBERS OVERSEAS.

>> ALL RIGHT, WE'RE ALL GOING TO BE WATCHING WHAT HAPPENS IN THE DAYS AHEAD.

MAYOR STEVE FULOP, THANKS, MAN, GOOD TO SEE YOU.

>> GOOD TO SEE YOU TOO.

>> OKAY, PANEL, MATT, SEAN, MICHAEL, GOOD TO SEE YOU GUYS.

LET'S TALK A FEW MINUTES IF WE CAN ABOUT WHAT'S HAPPENING IN THE UKRAINE.

MATT, OUR POLITICS SEEM IN THE MOST RECENT PAST TO HAVE BEEN SO DOMESTIC.

ARE WE GOING TO SEE MIDTERMS FOCUSING ON FOREIGN POLICY THIS TIME AROUND, AND IF THAT HAPPENS, DOES IT CHANGE THE PROSPECTS FOR EITHER PARTY?

>> YOU KNOW, IT'S REALLY HARD TO SAY AT THIS POINT.

HOW THIS PLAYS OUT RIGHT NOW.

I JUST THINK IT'S INTERESTING THAT FOR YEARS, IT'S BEEN PRETTY COMMON AND MAINSTREAM ON THE RIGHT TO PRAISE VLADIMIR PUTIN, DESPITE THE FACT THAT HE'S A DICTATOR WHO SCAPEGOATS GAY PEOPLE, WHO IS BULLYING HIS NEIGHBORS.

NOW, I MEAN, IT'S SOMEWHAT REFRESHING TO SEE THAT THERE'S AT LEAST A DECENT AMOUNT OF UNITY IN THE UNITED STATES TO SORT OF CONDEMN THIS ACTION.

I THINK, YOU KNOW, THERE'S ALMOST NO APPETITE, IT SEEMS, POLITICALLY IN THE U.S. FOR ANY ACTUAL ARMED INTERVENTION, BUT I THINK PEOPLE GENERALLY FEEL SYMPATHETIC TOWARDS THE UKRAINIAN CAUSE HERE.

I REALLY CAN'T SAY HOW THIS WILL PLAY OUT IN THE MIDTERM ELECTIONS.

IT'S EASY FOR PEOPLE TO GO AND THROW STONES AND SAY, LOOK, THIS IS HAPPENING UNDER BIDEN'S WATCH, AND IT WOULDN'T HAVE HAPPENED UNDER TRUMP, AND I DON'T KNOW HOW YOU KNOW THAT.

I MEAN, YOU CAN LOOK AT THE -- TRUMP'S APPROACH TO VLADIMIR PUTIN AND HIS PRAISE FOR HIM AND YOU CAN READ WHAT YOU WANT INTO THAT.

I DON'T KNOW HOW YOU CAN SAY IT WOULDN'T HAVE HAPPENED UNDER TRUMP.

SO, REALLY, I'M NOT GOING TO PREDICT HOW IT WILL PLAY IN THE MIDTERMS, BUT CERTAINLY, FOREIGN POLICY CAN HAVE AN EFFECT.

>> MICHAEL HILL, IS THIS DISTRACTION OR THE BEGINNING OF A BAD STRETCH INTERNATIONALLY HERE?

>> WELL, I THINK A LOT OF PEOPLE ARE GUARDING AGAINST RUSSIAN TANKS AND SO FORTH ROLLING INTO OTHER COUNTRIES, AND I THINK, YOU KNOW, THE PRESIDENT MAY BE ON TO SOMETHING THERE.

JUST THIS MORNING, PUTIN WAS ALREADY TALKING ABOUT GOING TO BELARUS TO MEET WITH THE LEADER OF UKRAINE, WHO'S COMMITTED TO HAVING A NONALIGNED STATUS FOR UKRAINE.

SO, MAYBE THIS CAN SETTLE PRETTY QUICKLY AS OPPOSED TO SOME PROTRACTED WARFARE, BUT DAVID, IT'S WEIRD TO ME, ALMOST SURREAL AT THIS TIME, TO HEAR HOW -- AND MATT TOUCHED ON THIS A LITTLE BIT, ABOUT HOW SOME IN ONE PARTY HAVE BEEN EMBRACING RUSSIA AND EMBRACING PUTIN WHO IS A DICTATOR, COMPARED TO -- I REMEMBER THE REPUBLICAN PARTY UNDER REAGAN AND HOW IT WAS ALMOST THE EXACT OPPOSITE OF WHAT REPUBLICANS -- SOME REPUBLICANS ARE SAYING NOW.

LIKE THE FORMER PRESIDENT, TRUMP, WHO'S BEEN PRAISING PUTIN OUT OF ONE SIDE OF HIS MOUTH AND THEN -- AND I COMPARE THAT TO WHAT RONALD REAGAN WAS SAYING SOME 40 YEARS AGO ABOUT RUSSIA.

>> SEAN, IT'S ALL EVERYBODY I KNOW IS TALKING ABOUT ALL OF A SUDDEN.

IS THAT HAPPENING IN YOUR CIRCLES?

>> YEAH, ABSOLUTELY.

I MEAN, THIS IS -- I MEAN, JUST THE TIMING ALONE, WE'RE JUST KIND OF STARTING TO SEE LIGHT AT THE END OF THE TUNNEL IN TERMS OF THE PANDEMIC, AND NOW WE'RE KIND OF HURTLING TOWARDS GLOBAL CONFLICT, AND YOU KNOW, I THINK THAT IT'S -- IT'S REALLY GOING TO BE SOMETHING TO WATCH GOING FORWARD, EXACTLY HOW THIS ADMINISTRATION HANDLES IT.

I MEAN, FRANKLY, WE HAVE IT -- THE BIDEN ADMINISTRATION HAS BEEN HAVING A ROUGH YEAR AND COULDN'T EVEN STRUGGLE TO EVEN MAIL COVID TESTS TO EVERY FAMILY THAT WANTED THEM.

I KNOW PEOPLE ARE STILL WAITING ON THOSE.

SO I THINK THAT THEIR RESPONSE TO THIS CRISIS IS GOING TO BE SOMETHING THAT PEOPLE ARE GOING TO BE PAYING CLOSE ATTENTION TO.

I THINK AFTER THE PAST FEW CONFLICTS WE'VE SEEN THE AMERICAN PEOPLE ARE VERY WARY OF ANOTHER FOREVER WAR.

>> IT HAS BEEN KIND OF REMARKABLE, GIVEN ALL THE PROBLEMS IN AMERICAN INTELLIGENCE OVER THE YEARS, AND YOU KNOW, WHAT HAPPENED IN THE LEAD-UP TO IRAQ, THAT WHAT THE BIDEN ADMINISTRATION HAS BEEN SAYING PUTIN IS GOING TO DO, HE HAS DONE EVERY STEP OF THE WAY.

I JUST THINK THAT'S AN INTERESTING DEVELOPMENT, THAT IT'S BEEN -- WHAT THEY'VE PUT OUT THERE PUBLICLY HAS BEEN ACCURATE TO THIS POINT.

>> I READ AN ANALYSIS PIECE IN THE ASSOCIATED PRESS ABOUT TWO OR THREE MONTHS AGO, AND WHAT IT LAID OUT, WHAT IT WAS SAYING ABOUT PUTIN AND WHAT HE THOUGHT OF UKRAINE, IT WAS JUST SO CLEAR TO ME THAT THIS MAN WAS GOING TO ORDER AN INVASION OF UKRAINE, SO I DON'T KNOW WHY ANYBODY WOULD HAVE BEEN SURPRISED, AND I HAVE HEARD SOME UKRAINIANS SAY, WE DIDN'T ANTICIPATE THIS.

HOW COULD YOU NOT?

BASED ON WHAT THIS MAN THOUGHT OF UKRAINE.

THIS WAS COMING.

AND NOBODY AMASSES 150,000 TROOPS ON THREE SIDES OF A COUNTRY IF YOU'RE NOT GOING TO INVADE.

>> YEAH.

ALL RIGHT.

GOING TO BE KEEPING EYES ON THIS AS WE GO FORWARD.

LET'S TALK SOME JERSEY RIGHT NOW.

STEVE FULOP, YOU HEARD HIM THERE SAY THAT HE MIGHT RUN FOR GOVERNOR.

HE MIGHT RUN FOR MAYOR.

MICHAEL HILL, I DON'T KNOW IF YOU AND THE MAYOR TALK AS MUCH SINCE YOU LEFT US FOR THE BIG CITY, BUT DOES STEVE FULOP LOOK LIKE A GUY WHO MAY WANT TO BE GOVERNOR?

>> WELL, I WOULD SAY, IF YOU HAVE BEEN MAYOR OF A CITY LIKE JERSEY CITY AND YOU CAN STAND ON YOUR ACCOMPLISHMENTS, I WOULD SAY, NOW WOULD PROBABLY BE THE RIGHT TIME FOR HIM TO RUN.

I MEAN, HE HAD THESE ASPIRATIONS SIX, SEVEN, EIGHT YEARS AGO, AND NOW, SINCE MURPHY'S GOING TO BE TERM LIMITED AND THAT MIGHT BE THE RIGHT TIME TO GO AHEAD AND RUN.

>> SEAN, HE GOT HIS HEAD HANDED TO HIM BEFORE HE COULD EVEN GET HIS CAMPAIGN STARTED LAST TIME.

DOES HE COME ACROSS AS GOVERNOR-Y?

GOVERNORISH?

GUBERNATORIAL?

>> YEAH, YOU KNOW, I WAS JUST THINKING THAT, IT'S ALMOST STARTING TO FEEL LIKE GROUNDHOG DAY.

WE HAVE -- WE'RE LEADING UP TO A POTENTIAL FULOP VS. STEVE SWEENEY SHOWDOWN AND I'M WONDERING WHETHER ANOTHER RICH GUY THAT NOBODY'S HEARD OF IS GOING TO COME IN AND CHARM ALL THE -- LIKE THE COUNTY BOSSES.

BUT YOU KNOW, I THINK THAT HAVING THE MANTLE OF THE MAYOR OF JERSEY CITY GIVES YOU A CERTAIN LEVEL OF VISIBILITY THAT A LOT OF POLITICIANS IN NEW JERSEY STRUGGLE WITH JUST BECAUSE OF THE NATURE OF OUR MEDIA MARKETS AND STUFF LIKE THAT, SO I THINK THAT HE'S -- STANDS AS GOOD A CHANCE AS ANY OTHER DEMOCRATIC CONTENDER RIGHT NOW.

>> I'M GOING TO TAKE THE EASY WAY OUT AND SAY IT'S RIDICULOUSLY EARLY TO TALK ABOUT GOVERNOR 2025, GIVEN PAST -- GIVEN WHAT'S HAPPENED LAST TIME.

>> WHAT WOULD YOU SAY, MATT?

>> I WILL SAY THAT I THINK THE SOUTH IS BEING MORE AND MORE ISOLATED.

I DON'T KNOW IF THAT WILL LAST.

THINGS CAN CHANGE.

BUT DEMOGRAPHICALLY, IN TERMS OF POLITICAL DEMOGRAPHICS, WHERE THEIR BASE HAS GONE AND WHERE VOTERS THEY'VE COUNTED HAVE GONE, THEY'RE HAVING A TOUGH TIME DOWN THERE SO SWEENEY IS MORE ISOLATED THAN HE LOOKED A YEAR AGO OR EVEN A FEW MONTHS AGO AND YOU CAN SEE THE NORTH JERSEY DEMOCRATS TURNING AGAINST HIM AND MAKING MOVES TO ISOLATE HIM, VERY CLEAR MOVES.

FULOP, HE'S DEFINITELY A CONTENDER BUT I WILL SAY THAT LETTER HE SENT TO THE REDISTRICTING COMMISSION, WHILE HE MADE VALID LEGAL POINT, NOT UNCONTESTED LEGAL POINTS, VALID ONES, I'M ALSO SKEPTICAL THAT THAT WAS PURELY THE REASON FOR THEM.

BUT THAT REALLY, REALLY ANGERED A LOT OF DEMOCRATS BECAUSE THEIR WHOLE STRATEGY WAS BASED ON JERSEY CITY BEING SPLIT THREE WAYS, AND THEY REALLY COULDN'T FIND A POLITICALLY PALATABLE MAP THAT DIDN'T DO THAT, THAT COULD GET MOST OF THEIR COMMISSIONERS ON BOARD WITH IT.

SO, THAT REALLY, REALLY ANGERED A LOT OF POLITICAL BOSSES WHEN HE DID THAT.

REGARDLESS OF ITS LEGAL MERITS, WHICH CAN BE DEBATED.

I JUST WANT TO RESPOND TO ONE THING ABOUT THE LINE THAT HE SAID.

I THINK IT'S INTERESTING, WHEN THEY TALK ABOUT THE LINE LIKE, HEY, LOOK, YOU KNOW, THE LINE DOESN'T DETERMINE EVERYTHING.

I THINK -- LOOK AT THEIR ACTIONS AND NOT THEIR WORDS.

AND ALSO, HE MENTIONED HIS OWN RACE IN 2013, WHICH OF COURSE, CORRECT ME IF I'M WRONG, BUT I BELIEVE THAT WAS NONPARTISAN.

THERE WAS NO LINE THERE.

>> RIGHT.

>> BUT AMY, THE HUDSON COUNTY DEMOCRATIC CHAIR, WHEN IT LOOKED LIKE WE WERE GOING TO HAVE THIS KNOCKDOWN, DRAGOUT SHOWDOWN BETWEEN BERNIE SANDERS ON THE LEFT AND MAYBE JOE BIDEN OR SOMEONE ELSE MORE MODERATE DEMOCRATIC PARTY, AMY WAS TALKING ABOUT HAVING NO LINE JUST FOR THE PRESIDENTIAL RACE, SO BASICALLY HAVING -- AMY, THE HUDSON COUNTY DEMOCRATIC CHAIR -- BASICALLY HAVING A LINE FOR THE LOWER DOWN OFFICES AND NOT THE PRESIDENTIAL RACE.

IF THE LINE DOESN'T MATTER, WHY DO YOU CARE WHETHER YOUR CANDIDATES ARE RUNNING ALONG WITH BERNIE SANDERS OR JOE BIDEN?

SHE'S LIKE, NO, IT DOESN'T.

HER ACTIONS SHOW THAT IT DOES MATTER OR THEY THINK IT MATTERS AND IF THE PERSON WHO AWARDS THE LINE OR AT LEAST HAS A LOT OF INFLUENCE OF AWARDING THE LINE THINKS IT MATTERS, THEN IT PROBABLY DOES.

I HEAR THIS ALL THE TIME.

YOU CAN WIN OFF THE LINE OCCASIONALLY.

IT HAPPENS.

USUALLY THROUGH A RIVAL POLITICAL MACHINE, BLAH, BLAH, BLAH.

BUT MOST PEOPLE, YOU COULD HAVE LEGITIMATE CANDIDATES, IT'S NOT SO MUCH PLAKS ON THE BALLOT, IT'S PLACEMENT WITH ALL THESE OTHER CANDIDATES SO EVEN A LEGITIMATE CANDIDATE WILL HAVE A HARD TIME FINDING AN ENTIRE SLATE TO RUN FOR GOVERNOR, SENATOR, CONGRESS, WHATEVER ON DOWN WHEN THEY MIGHT BE A TOTALLY VALID CANDIDATE FOR A SPECIFIC OFFICE BUT THE FACT THAT THEY CAN'T GET TOGETHER AN ENTIRE SLATE CAN RELEGATE THEM TO BALLOT SIBERIA.

I JUST THINK THAT WE NEED TO MAKE IT CLEAR THAT THESE POLITICIANS WHO SAY THE LINE DOESN'T MATTER, THEY THINK IT DOES, AND YOU CAN SEE THAT FROM THEIR OWN ACTIONS.

AMY DEGEES.

>> MICHAEL, I DON'T KNOW IF YOU EVER ATTENDED ONE OF THE GOVERNOR'S COVID BRIEFINGS, I'VE ONLY SEEN THEM ON TV AND STREAMING, BUT THEY ARE COMING TO AN END NEXT WEEK.

IS THAT A POWERFUL SIGNAL OF THE BEGINNING OF THE END OF COVID?

>> I THINK IT'S A REFLECTION OF THE NUMBERS THIS STATE HAS BEEN PUTTING OUT, WHAT'S TAKING PLACE IN THE REST OF THE COUNTRY IN TERMS OF COVID AND INFECTIONS AND SO FORTH, AND THE LIFTING OF DIFFERENT MANDATES AND SO FORTH, AND I THINK IT'S ALSO A REFLECTION OF TAKING ADVANTAGE OF, YOU KNOW, WE'VE BEEN FATIGUED WITH THIS THING FOR THE LAST SIX MONTHS TO A YEAR, AND THE BOTTOM LINE IS, NOW IS AN OPPORTUNITY ON SOME OF THE ANNIVERSARIES OF COVID FROM TWO YEARS AGO TO GO AHEAD AND RELAX SOME OF THESE THINGS AND THERE'S NO REASON TO HOLD THESE BRIEFINGS EVERY DAY OR EVEN EVERY WEEK.

>> YEAH.

SEAN, A LOT OF TIMES, THOSE BRIEFINGS FEATURED MULTIPLE QUESTIONS ON EVERYTHING, ON TOPIC AND OFF.

SHOULD WE WORRY NOW ABOUT ACCESS TO THE GOVERNOR WITHOUT THE BRIEFINGS TO BRING US ALL TOGETHER?

>> I DON'T NECESSARILY THINK THAT WE SHOULD BE WORRIED ABOUT ACCESS DIRECTLY TO THE GOVERNOR.

THIS ADMINISTRATION IN PARTICULAR HASN'T BEEN TOO BAD ABOUT MAKING THE GOVERNOR AVAILABLE TO THE PRESS.

WHERE MY CONCERN LIES, ACTUALLY, HAS TO DO WITH SOME OF THE FRANKLY ANTI-TRANSPARENCY EFFORTS THAT WENT THROUGH DURING THE PANDEMIC, A BILL THAT WAS PASSED THAT LOOSENS REQUIREMENTS FOR OPEN PUBLIC RECORDS ACT REQUESTS DURING A PUBLIC HEALTH EMERGENCY.

CORRECT ME IF I'M WRONG.

I THINK WE'RE STILL UNDER A PUBLIC HEALTH EMERGENCY.

SO I THINK IT'S -- MY CONCERN IS LESS ABOUT MAKING THE GOVERNOR AVAILABLE TO THE PRESS CORPS WHERE HE CAN SAY, OH, I DON'T HAVE ANY COLOR ON THAT, VERSUS REQUIRING HIS DEPARTMENT TO COUGH UP RECORDS TO BACK UP THE POSITIONS THAT THE ADMINISTRATION IS TAKING.

AND SO, YOU KNOW, CERTAINLY I'M SURE THAT THEY'RE GOING TO CONTINUE TO HOLD AVAILABILITIES AT OTHER EVENTS AND STUFF LIKE THAT, BUT REALLY, WHAT THEY NEED TO DO NOW IS KIND OF OPEN UP THE BOOKS A LITTLE BIT IF THEY'RE GOING -- IF WE'VE GOTTEN TO THE POINT WHERE THE GOVERNOR NO LONGER FEELS IT NECESSARY TO GET OUT IN FRONT OF THE PUBLIC EVERY COUPLE DAYS.

>> I DON'T REMEMBER IF WE DISCUSSED, MATT, PLATKIN ON THIS SHOW YET, BUT SEAN, I SAW YOU'VE BEEN COVERING THE EARLY DAYS OF THE PLATKIN ERA.

HAVE YOU GOTTEN ANY SENSE OF THE GUY?

>> THEY HAVE BEEN A LITTLE BIT STANDOFFISH, JUST BECAUSE TYPICALLY, BEFORE AN A.G. GETS CONFIRMED, THEY DON'T REALLY WANT TO GIVE TOO MUCH ACCESS BUT I WAS ABLE TO KIND OF, FRANKLY, STALK HIM AND TRIED -- AND TALK TO SOME FOLKS ABOUT GETTING A SENSE OF WHAT HIS PRIORITIES ARE, AND TYPICALLY, ATTORNEYS GENERAL PICK THREE OR FOUR POLICY PORTFOLIO THINGS AND WE HAVEN'T SEEN EXACTLY WHAT THAT'S GOING TO BE FROM PLATKIN YET BUT HE HAS ALLUDED TO THINGS ABOUT IMPROVING RELATIONSHIPS BETWEEN POLICE AND THE COMMUNITIES THEY SERVE.

HE'S ALREADY MET WITH COMMUNITY LEADERS OVER SOME ISSUES IN THAT REGARD.

BUT YOU KNOW, THIS IS A GUY THAT COMES FROM THE MURPHY ADMINISTRATION, WHO FRANKLY WERE VERY HAPPY TO LET THE ATTORNEY GENERAL'S OFFICE DRIVE THE BUS ON A LOT OF THE POLICE REFORM STUFF WE SAW OVER THE LAST FEW YEARS SO IT WILL BE INTERESTING TO SEE WHETHER THERE'S AN APPETITE TO PURSUE SOME OF THE STUFF THAT THE PROGRESSIVE WING OF THE DEMOCRATIC PARTY IN NEW JERSEY AND, YOU KNOW, FOLKS OUTSIDE THE PARTY HAVE BEEN CALLING FOR IN THE WAKE OF ALL THE UNREST OVER POLICE SHOOTINGS AND SO I THINK THAT THAT'S GOING TO BE KIND OF A FIRST MAJOR TEST FOR HIM.

>> ALL RIGHT, MATT, I GOT ABOUT TEN SECONDS FOR YOU ON PLATKIN.

IS HE GOING TO HAVE TO FACE SOME TOUGH QUESTIONS REGARDING ALVAREZ/KATIE BRENNAN.

>> YES AND HE WILL ALSO FACE QUESTIONS INVOLVING THE CHRISTOPHER NOOURT LAWSUIT, ABOUT HIS FIRING.

HE WAS WITH MURPHY ALMOST BEFORE ANYONE ELSE SO HE'S NOT EXACTLY GOING TO BE SEEN AS A TOTAL -- AS AN INDEPENDENT FORCE.

>> COULD IT DERAIL HIS CANDIDACY?

>> I MEAN, UNLIKELY AT THIS POINT.

>> ALL RIGHT.

>> UNLIKELY.

>> ALL RIGHT, MATT FRIEDMAN, SEAN SULLIVAN, MICHAEL HILL, THANK YOU FOR COMING ON WITH US TODAY.

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