And now the 419 with Gretchen De Backer.

Might kill.

And Kevin Mullin.

Welcome to the 419, powered by CTE and presented by Retro Wealth Management.

I'm Kevin mullen, Gretchen Debacker, Matt killam.

It is mayor Monday, and for the first time, we are visiting Toledo, Ohio, our very own city.

We're staying right here in Toledo with mayor Wade Capps of Cambridge.

And then we also have Brandon Horst, the chief growth officer for the city of Toledo.

Or as I like to refer to him, Midas.

There you go.

It feels like everything he touches turns to gold.

That's true.

He's very talented.

We had a cool, opportunity, last week where we got invited by the Lucas County Economic Development Corporation for the three of us to host an event which I pronounced lytic.

Yeah, that's exactly right.

Is that right?

Yeah.

That's exactly.

That's right.

The proper Ukrainian?

Yes.

They, But it was at a toll house.

A lot of fun.

Really cool event.

We recorded it.

And so we will have the interviews that we did.

We have Kyle Sword from Pilkington, Matthew Carrion from Newark, the northwestern Ohio Innovation Consortium.

And we'll have those on this show.

Coming up probably in a couple of weeks.

We'll, we'll get done editing.

That's they there is, a significant amount of editing that they need to do.

Yeah.

Because we had one rule coming into and what was the one, the one rule that I was told repeatedly because I was the one that was going to be accused of breaking it was no swearing.

No swearing.

That is not how that went down.

We had a host of meetings about this topic, and everyone would just looked at me the entire time.

Yeah.

And said that, I think.

I think that's all right.

I think you're both right.

Yeah.

Yeah.

So that's kind of everybody with was saying it was going to be you.

Yes.

You and I both knew 100% it was going to be.

That's right.

Yeah.

And I took the bullet.

Yeah.

Yeah.

That's right.

But then, we get out to toll House, let's.

You know, it was a long day for all of us.

So long.

And, at one point in time, somebody, called me to say, how do you think it went?

And I said, Matt called someone, a file name and then referred to someone else as having severed heads in their basement.

So all all told, it was a success.

Look, that none would shut up.

And that was somewhere out of place.

It needed to stop.

Yeah.

That's right.

I'm not from here.

Right, exactly.

I didn't tell your husband's.

We will have, those conversations coming up in a couple of weeks.

Hopefully less conversations about severed heads.

Yeah.

And speaking of severed heads, We're excited.

That's how the segue that there catch the caveat on on the show today.

Yeah.

And and you guys have known each other.

You guys have been friends for a long.

Yeah, we just been musicals together.

Cool.

Okay.

Who was better?

Obviously, neither was it, but neither is the answer to that either.

But we'll get his answer on that one.

Okay.

Because you guys are going to have a single.

Oh, I didn't realize that.

Yep.

Yeah.

Warm it up.

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More information at whetroadvisors.com The 419, powered by WGTE is made possible in part by supporters like you.

Thank you.

Welcome back into the 419.

It's mega Monday again ahead of you guys.

You know what?

It's let's do a tour of the city of Toledo.

And because it's the city where we all live, we're gonna do things a little bit different this time.

And we're going to start with the chief growth officer, Brandon Sell horse.

Brandon, thank you so much for joining us.

I Brandon.

Hi.

What does Chief Growth officer mean?

Well, it's a new title at the city, but what it really means is kind of aligning departments that are all focused on growth under one kind of position.

So under the chief growth officer, I oversee economic development, building inspection and planning commission that all three of those departments, every business or developer that wants to invest in our community, has to touch them.

So aligning under one strategy, we're going to be more efficient.

We're going to be business friendly.

We're going to be focused on growth.

I mean, the one of those roles is the most loathsome, is the most loathsome.

Yeah, I'm just kidding.

I won't answer that right.

Yeah.

It's you know, it's out there.

And as you work kind of into that role, obviously, I mean, I, I know you started with the city and economic development.

Yep.

Where you finding I don't mean this as a shot at the department, but finding barriers within the government to sure make that easy.

Yeah.

Yeah.

And economic development our our goal is to attract more businesses to the city.

Right.

And so we control that experience of attracting them or helping them, you know, expand.

But going through our process is something I can't always control because I didn't oversee those departments.

Right.

So aligning it under kind of one person or one strategy helps me kind of make sure that we can control that process, make it more efficient, you know, I mean, and just be more business friendly throughout.

So weren't you once wasn't it kind of happening anyway?

I mean, once you had the relationship with the developer that was coming?

Yes.

And then they ran into something.

Correct?

They would come back to you anyway.

Correct?

Right.

So it just kind of.

But it was more reactive.

Yeah.

Instead of being proactive and, and you know, anything about the city, it's like trying to change the system is where you're going to have the biggest impact.

Right.

And so changing how we approach these things and not just doing it on a one off basis when we get the phone call, is really what we're focused on with this new, this new organizational structure.

It is it I mean, it is so refreshing to hear sort of you acknowledge like it was an imperfect system, right?

Because I think so, so often, like when you talk to folks in the city, there's these somewhat rose colored glasses, like, no, everything's good.

Like it's working the way it's supposed to.

And it's like, but at the end of the day, if it isn't working for the citizen right, then it's not working right.

And many times, you know, our system is set up to handle the Jeep's of the world or the Amazons, like companies that have whole departments that are focused on putting site plans together and going through that process.

The majority of the businesses that we serve in this community, I think over 70%, are micro enterprises, their small businesses, businesses that have 1 to 5 employees, they don't have whole departments to put site plans together and go through the permitting process.

So you think about who we are, who we're serving, and we need to make sure our system kind of, accommodates that.

Let me ask you, is there an advantage to some degree?

And again, I'm not going to spin this to the positive.

But is there advantage to being an area our size to have this sort of, medium sized network of opportunity?

I think so, I mean, Toledo is a middle sized city.

And I think that there's, you know, the organizational structure is one in which I feel like we can make some tweaks and some changes and have a big impact.

Sure.

You know, this isn't a big bureaucracy.

You know, these aren't big departments that we're talking about.

So making small tweaks, changing the culture, which doesn't happen overnight.

But but I think we can have a bigger impact just because of the size.

Absolutely.

And what was little Brendan tell first like, I mean that what what was your ideal job?

How did you get to that stage?

Yeah.

No.

Great question.

You know, I'm a I'm unique in the sense that, like, I knew exactly what I wanted to do when I was a little kid.

I grew up not too far from here in the Arlington neighborhood.

And, during my time growing up, Toledo was very much in a in a transition period, Jeep was threatening to leave.

All the companies were moving out of downtown.

Southlake was closing.

Nortel was closing like it was just we had the foreclosure crisis.

It was just a heavy time in the city.

But, you know, I was attracted to like bright spots and things happening, like the hands moving downtown and building a new arena.

Larry Dylan bring in Levis Commons out of the ground and proposing something for Marina District.

And I got really attached to those things at a young age.

I can't explain it.

And my favorite video game growing up was SimCity.

So, you know, I'm the complete dork building cities at the age of, like, seven.

Sure.

But anyway, long story short, I, like, fell in love with the city at a very young age.

I realized that there was an opportunity, to kind of help that and the positions that I saw helping that word developers, real estate people and economic developers at the time.

So I kind of always looked ahead and said, sure, that's what I want to do when I grow up in you folks, are innovators, past masters.

How did they either foster this, or were they abusive to you?

Yea I think it's actually really a cool part of my story.

My parents are underdogs, and, my my folks had me at a very young age.

My mom was 16, my dad was 17.

And I feel like there was always this notion that they wouldn't succeed, that they wouldn't excel.

And like having me at such a young age, you know, there was always like just, oh, God, how is yeah, you know, how's that going to work out?

But my parents are they fight back, right?

Like they're they're like, yeah, we're the underdogs.

We're going to prove the world right.

They're still together to this day.

They raised me, you know what I mean?

I've been very successful.

My parents are divorced.

Thank you for holding that, and letting me relive that pain again.

Are you saying that I heard you say that you're only.

Yeah.

My parents are quitters.

Yeah, I have heard that story.

And I know that you're proud of them.

And I'm sure that's really proud of you.

For good reason.

Yeah, yeah, but I think it's it's like a part of, like, who I am, like the underdog.

Like trying to prove people wrong.

I feel like that's part of Toledo's story, is being an underdog and people telling us all day, every day what we can't be, what we can't do.

And man, that gets me excited because I want to prove people wrong.

So I grew up in Arlington neighborhood, went to Saint John's.

Correct.

And then where, went down to the University of Cincinnati.

So they had a great program down there called Urban Planning, which kind of combined all these things that I was interested in.

And me going down to Cincinnati when I did, they were just coming out of the race riots and over the Rhine, and they were over the Rhine neighborhood was ranked the number one most dangerous neighborhood in the entire United States.

At the same time, you have industry like titans down there Procter and Gamble, Western and Southern, Kroger, Macy's, all these corporations that got together and said, we got to fix this.

Like the image of Cincinnati right now is not good.

If we want to attract and retain talent, we've got to do something about it.

So they created an organization called three Ccdc, the Cincinnati Center, City Development Corporation, and they they channeled like billions of dollars, you guys, through this organization with the city in the county to buy up properties and redevelop strategic sites in downtown, the banks and over the Rhine.

Today, it's now kind of lifted up as one of the best examples of how to do urban redevelopment.

But being a student of that at the time was just incredible.

And I got to get some of my first co-op experiences working down there.

Fast forward to 2014.

ProMedica makes their big announcement.

We're moving downtown.

We're creating this thing called the 22nd Century Committee.

And I remember looking at my girlfriend at the time, wife now, and I said, this is it.

This is what it happens for Toledo like, because I saw what it did in Cincinnati.

And, you know, fast forward and it's exactly what happened and kind of sparked our urban renaissance.

Can you pinpoint a project that you've since worked on that is reminiscent of what you learned or or learned about in Cincinnati?

Yeah, I think, you know, one thing that I am working on currently that's just a really, really hard project.

And I think at the time when since it was just starting this, they had a lot of obstacles, you know, a lot of things against them now it's it's obviously much different.

But the Four Corners project is probably one of the biggest, challenges that we have from an urban redevelopment standpoint.

You know, construction costs being very high.

It starts the beginning for those that might be listening, you're watching, I don't know even where this is local.

No, that's a great, great question.

So in downtown Toledo, there's the intersection of Huron and Madison, where there's the only four buildings that still remain.

And we call this the Four Corners because of that significance.

Think about that.

We've lost so many buildings downtown that we only have one intersection where four buildings are still historic and remain, three of them are vacant and two of them are owned publicly.

They're vacant.

Historic skyscrapers.

Between all three of them, it's over 1,000,000ft.

That's almost the size of Franklin Park Mall.

Think about that.

Just being vacant on that intersection.

So the odds are against us, right?

Like converting those office buildings to residential is the focus.

And we believe we can get about 500 units between the three buildings there.

But but the the capital stack is really tough, right?

How we fund this effort is really tough.

So just to give you guys some context, you guys are familiar with the Marina Lofts projects and and Marina District.

You for sure, right I would hope tell me more.

360 units.

Okay.

It has old bag of nails restaurant.

It's got, clubhouse, parking for the residents.

Frank Castle built that for $50 million.

Okay.

To renovate the Spitzer and the Nicholas building in downtown Toledo.

Four corners, two of the four corners, 360 apartments.

No swimming pool, no anything like that.

It's $200 million.

So the lot that's way more, right?

Yeah.

Like three times more.

Yeah.

Why why?

This is a great question.

We think about, converting old office buildings to residential.

What do residential units have?

The offices don't.

Bathroom sinks, you know, a lot of interior walls and things like that.

We're literally taking a building built in the late 1800s and converting it to a modern day apartment complex, all within the envelope of a historic structure.

It is your plan, Brendan, to put data centers, on the top floor, every floor.

Is that correct?

No, no, no data set.

Right.

And that is.

Yeah.

Right.

So when you talk about like, yeah, I mean, how expensive it is to convert commercial and residential.

Yes.

Then I mean, I know the answer to this, but I'm gonna ask it why not keep it commercial.

Why make it residential?

That's a great question.

We are a weak office market.

We always have been in downtown Toledo.

You know, we've always had a significant amount of vacant office space in downtown.

These buildings, Kevin, they're, what we like to call functionally obsolete, are no longer office buildings.

Right.

If we are going to have an office user come downtown, we want to have them go to our class office space, have them go to one Seagate, you know, fill the vacant space there.

These buildings are vacant even to bring them back to office would cost a fortune because they've been vacant for over a decade.

I thought about that.

Yeah, yeah.

What is a day in the life of your work life look like?

What are you doing?

You come in.

I mean, I've seen your office.

We work across the hall from each other.

You're very organized.

You have.

I know you have your list on the wall, but, like, what's your what's your task?

Who are you talking to?

And how were you able to clean Gretchen's office after her departure?

I mean, that was a team of people.

Was the same thing.

It took a while.

It was true.

It took a lot.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

I mean, did it cost to renovate $50 million into a working office?

Yeah, we actually converted her big office into three smaller offices.

So just to give you some cuts that she's done on the ground, and we.

She was.

You did better.

Yeah.

My, my day to day.

It's it's it's wild and it's crazy.

I mean it's it's fun.

Predictable.

Do you can you can you control the like somewhat okay.

So what I mean, I'm organized like I live and die by my calendar.

Right.

And if you saw my calendar, you'd see it's like back to back, you know, early mornings to to late night.

So it's just fine.

I enjoy it like I love doing this work, but a lot of times it's putting out fires too, right?

It's the developer of the business calling or some internal thing.

It's like, hey, I've got an issue, can you fix this?

And that's that's the value that I think me and my team bring to the table, I agree, is having someone at City Hall to call from a business perspective and like, help me work through this.

At the risk of making you feel uncomfortable, I do think that is one of your superpowers.

There are people who are technicians, and have a clinical effectiveness that is, you know, desperately important.

But rarely are the people who bring the human component of it.

They're welcoming in.

And thank you.

You you certainly embody that.

And we're lucky to have I appreciate talk a little bit about your relationship with Merck and about, you know, your your office is down the hall.

You know, you access to him.

He has access to you, but you obviously have a good working relationship.

Absolutely.

And you come forward with some crazy ideas, potentially.

Yes.

You talk a little bit about his responsiveness or receptiveness to those.

And also, how much have you learned about the history of everything?

I've learned so much.

We've all learned so well, so much.

Every time I learn something new, that's for sure.

And I'm reminded of how young I am when I'm when I'm being told about the history.

Yeah, that's an interesting way to call him old.

Yeah, it's an interesting way to say remind your boss.

Definitely older than me.

Yeah.

Easy for him.

Yeah, yeah.

No, it's a good question.

You know, one of the things that, attracted me to come back to the city because I left for a hot second, I forgot, and then came back.

Is is the mayor's leadership and how he approaches things?

I mean, one thing that always stood out to me when he was on the campaign trail and even when he was giving speeches, is we're going to try some new things and they're not all going to work.

Yes, but that's okay.

And, you know, for a young person that you know, has their heart on fire for the city, we got to try some new things.

Like to have that at the at the top of the leadership saying that's okay, we're going to try it.

And if it doesn't work out like we'll we'll readjust.

That's important to me.

So that's what drew me back in.

And man, he has given me every opportunity to take chances and be bold and try new things.

And I just really appreciate that leadership style.

And we've got a close relationship.

I'm thankful for that because this work takes a strong mayor to to stay on the political side, both literally and metaphorically.

Can we talk about Westgate?

Sure.

What's going on at whiskey?

Well, when will you reveal the new retail stores that will be at Westgate?

Soon.

We're putting a shovel in the ground in March.

So this month, which is great.

The plan is to have a big groundbreaking ceremony in April where we announced that every single person, all the new and fun retailers that are coming to West Toledo, that's going to be mostly things coming back from port side.

Right.

It's the chocolate shop, fudge store, the fudge store and the cakes.

We have a northwest Ohio since 1985, so I'm pro.

I'm sorry.

I'm excited.

Yeah.

Me too.

You know, that's a really fun project to work on.

I mean, it's taken years, okay, to get this off the ground because both buildings that were there were old department stores that had over $2 million as quickly as they did.

Yeah, yeah, we're talking with Brandon Cell Haus, chief growth, chief growth officer for the city of Toledo.

Brandon, we're wrapping up the, our conversation, our topic day.

What what's a project that's coming, that you're most excited about, that you can talk about?

Yeah.

The biggest thing that, I'm most excited about is our $20 million shovel ready sites fund that we're getting ready to kick off here.

This is an absolute game changer.

One thing that I've learned working in the city is we have to be really intentional about what we want, and being intentional means we have to get in the real estate business again.

We've been successful buying and selling the Marina district, which is now the crown jewel of our riverfront city, bought that, redeveloped it Southwick, North Town textile, leather, overland industrial park.

I invest these all these sites over 500 acres brought almost 4000 new jobs to our city.

All because we as a community stepped up to buy it, redevelop it and go after what we wanted.

So this is round two of that.

I well, we wrap up here.

This is probably a complicated question, but one thing I also think would be excruciating for me based on my intellect, is your job is both immediate and also a long game.

Yeah, it's a long game.

How do you rectify that in your own head?

I mean, that has to be a challenge.

It's tough, especially in City Hall, where everything seems to be like reactive and putting out fires and dealing with like the issue of the day.

But man, I try really hard to go in every day and work on the proactive stuff because it's the stuff that matters in the long game.

Many times, yes, because of that it has.

And this $20 million shovel ready fund has taken, you know, over a year to kind of put together.

But but think about all of those projects that I just mentioned.

If we didn't do it where our community would be.

I mean, I feel like this is just a have to moment.

This is a no brainer idea.

It's a budget neutral opportunity for the city to set the next wave of sites for housing and economic development.

Brendan Horse, the chief growth officer for the City of Toledo, continuing our tour of Toledo here on Mayor Monday on the 419.

Thank you so much.

Thanks for having me, guys.

I appreciate it.

When you're ready to tell us, where Gretchen is going to spend all of her money in April.

In April?

Yeah, I'll be back, sir.

There is.

You got cool projects.

Please let us know.

Can I be back on?

Great.

Certainly.

Appreciate the time today.

Thank you guys.

All right, Brandon, sell hawks for the city of Toledo.

When we come back, we'll wrap up this Mayor Monday edition of the 490.

We'll be right back.

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Welcome back to the 419.

It's Mayor Monday here on the 419.

And we're taking a tour of the city of Toledo for the first time in the show.

We are, celebrating Mayor Monday with our mayor and Toledo.

Mayor Wade, thank you so much.

I Gretchen told me during the break, that I and I think maybe 90% of Toledo, frequently say your name wrong.

It's Wade.

Yeah.

It's Wade.

Yeah.

People have a hard time with my name, I get it.

Yeah, well, it's that silent e at the end that really throws things off.

If I were telling you.

Well.

Oh, my God, it is interesting.

I know you're talking about my last name.

And many times, when I need, you know, I'm going to be a speaker at an event.

I have to be introduced.

The person who's been assigned to introduce me will come and get me at the door and have these panic stricken practice sessions, you know, is I a capsule carrier?

And by the time it comes to announce me, they pronounce the last name perfectly, and they do manage to screw up before I get a first name.

So it's Wayne, Walt, my dad as well.

So I didn't know that was all right.

I think I should start going by Mark Wayne.

Caps have it.

Or.

My middle name is Patrick W Patrick caps a Kevin.

Yeah, a Daniel Patrick Moynihan.

I'll tell you when I think about content, this is what this is, right?

Yeah.

This is what's going through a guy's name.

Last name last.

We're talking about Daniel Patrick Moynihan.

Yeah.

It's what gets the views.

Last week, Pete Buttigieg was in town.

I made the joke that, both wade in the air.

Oh, for sure.

In the club of, former club of mayors that you can't pronounce their last name.

You know, is you guys know about that because you will, And that wasn't included.

So.

Yeah, it's a mid-sized Midwestern mayors with unpronounceable last names.

Yeah.

So I got a lot of tweets from all over the country a couple of years ago when he was running for president.

You know, someone tweeted out as Pete was, you know, getting a lot of attention.

You know, I have my my man for me, for, for president, you know, Midwestern, you know, midsize city, comeback town, you know, in the Midwest, you know, mayor with the, you know, sort of nerdy looking, but book smart, impossible to pronounce last name.

And then they would put me there and, someone from Seattle posted that something from my show.

It is, you know, that didn't translate into presidential votes, actually, for me or Pete.

Right.

But or not enough anyhow.

But it was fun.

Whatever happened to that Twitter?

That seemed like a good idea.

Twitter is still around.

I think it got, replaced, by, carrier pigeons.

Yeah, that's the thing.

Which didn't it.

True.

Yeah.

So, obviously you're in your third term as, the mayor of the city of Toledo.

What's your big goal?

The thing that you want to accomplish by the end of this term, the, I from a policy perspective, I think the most important thing for us to focus on is housing.

Now, why housing?

Because as, your previous guest, Brandon, sawhorse, our chief growth officer, is all about.

It's time for us to grow.

And I really do think that it's not a slogan.

It's not something that we want to happen.

You know, we've studied it.

And from a data perspective.

Look, Toledo, just like so many other cities in this part of the country, has seen a decline in population over 50 years, over 70 years.

That's not new to Toledo.

Everywhere from Buffalo to Milwaukee every time.

Heck, even Great Chicago has lost about a million people.

You know, over the last 50 years.

It's happened to the whole region, but some of those cities have started, have have stopped, the decline have started to to to grow again.

Buffalo has famously, Detroit has actually the city of Detroit last year grew for the first time since 1957.

Our studies indicate that Toledo would grow also if we had more housing.

I know people have opinions about all of the reasons that you might want to locate in the city prime quality of schools, those sorts of things.

People are going to have their opinion sometimes.

Doesn't matter what the facts are, they're going to have their opinions or the facts, though that's already whatever you think about that and the demand side that's already baked into the cake and yet still spitting out the other side of the equal sign is 10,000 more Toledo wins.

If there were 10,000 more units of housing, what we really have is a supply problem.

We don't have enough units of housing to support the people who are market studies say, want to be here.

So if Brandon's going to succeed in his job, and I know he will, if we're going to grow, we need to bring online more units of housing for, for the people who want to be here.

So that is that's not a quick fix.

That's like moving an aircraft carrier in the middle of the Pacific Ocean.

But we have some things in place that are going to start to bring those units on board.

And Brandon talked about some of the, Four Corners project.

When I think about that, it's I think about that from a perspective of housing.

He talked about the $20 million shovel ready, sites funding.

Now, yes.

Some of those sites will be for economic development jobs, but some of those sites will be declare land for new condos or market rate housing, etc.. That's in one word.

And it's rare that I would ever give a one word answer.

And even my one word answer actually was about 7000 words.

It's really housing, it's interest that sets us up to grow because of the other mayors that we've had on as part of this mayor Monday, including Theresa Smith, defiance, Mayor Finley, mayor, all of them have given that answer that housing, their housing stocks, investment in their housing, in their cities is exactly the same issue that's facing the city of Toledo.

What coordination happens with other cities or with the state or federal government to help cities like like ours finish this project?

Yeah.

It is, it's something that mayors are talking about really more than any other issue.

It's not that we don't talk about other issues, but in terms, it's really has become the number one issue among cities of America, especially as crime has, has become, has started.

It peaked all across the country in the middle of Covid, but now it's come down pretty substantially, not just in Toledo but across the country.

And so other issues have sort of emerged.

For, the brainpower of mayors, to focus on.

And there's a joke that I can't believe a special you didn't make when I talked about mayors and brain power.

I haven't been listening.

Yeah, that's right, that's right So, but so it was a lot of focus on it.

One of the things that makes this tough is that unlike some of the other things that mayors might work on, which, there's a more the deliverable is easier to see and quicker.

There's a pothole.

Let's fill it.

You know, we take so how bringing more housing online is a years long process.

That is.

So that involves acquiring the land and, you know, it takes a lot not only time, it takes a lot of money also.

So we work with the federal government trying to pass legislation that would, free up opportunities to access more money to make it more easier to borrow money to make the terms of borrowing more favorable.

But it's a struggle, and it's actually it's a struggle, you know, right now with, you know, some of the guys coming out of Washington is isn't as it seems.

The white House is focused on other things, other than, housing, where unless it's housing for, and I guess unless you want to refer to housing as a detention center.

Right.

The sort of housing we care about.

There's not a lot of focus coming out of Washington and Columbus.

You know, I think there are the actors are more sincere there.

But so many of the policies from Columbus are, focused on Columbus, you know, Columbus or maybe the bigger cities when really what we're trying to get them to understand is the pressures facing Toledo are just as real.

And Mansfield and Chillicothe and, you know, sort of smaller mid-sized towns where that these, senators and representatives represent.

We're making progress.

We're talking Wade caps, the cabbage, the mayor of the city of Toledo here on a mayor Monday on the 419.

Mr.

Mayor, I've got a question for you.

I mean, I can't imagine what your schedule is like.

But when you get up in the morning, or is there someplace you look to for looking to the future?

Is there a, a Rolodex of things that you look to in you're, you're benchmarking or looking for inspiration at my Rolodex next to my card catalog?

In my rotary phone?

Yes.

The, that that message was received, sir.

Yeah.

Yeah, yeah.

I'm sorry.

Oh, yeah.

Yeah.

I'm sorry.

Hyp.

Wade.

Yes.

No, no, no, I understand where you're coming from.

You know, I don't, I have I mean, I read a lot, and I, network a lot with, other mayors.

Actually, back to housing, I there are the US Conference of Mayors has 11 standing committees that focus the work of the mayors of America.

I chair the housing committee.

And so, having that opportunity, you know, puts me in rooms in Washington elsewhere that maybe otherwise wouldn't be.

So I have it, you know, just from the perspective of reading and networking, you know, we get a chance to bounce ideas off and as you say, benchmark.

But actually, I think what is as important and what is sometimes harder to find time to do is to is to dream of.

Sure, a little and to it's so easy to get in the hamster wheel of, just making the trains run on time.

And it's important to make the trains run on time.

But that fundamental of that is, doing.

If all you're doing is that, then you are just more efficiently executing the status quo.

What we want to do is to try to think outside the box a little bit.

And so I actually, I find myself, doing that part of it, you know, when I'm on my bike, I think everyone knows, that there's less of me than there used to be.

And exercise has become a big part of it.

And so, you know, the time I am on that, University, trail on the way to Wildwood, let's say, after work, when the weather's nice.

Now, what is my world?

And tell me everything about it.

Yeah, it is, it is.

Despite sketchy leadership.

It's a nice place.

Yeah, it's a nice place to spend time.

But it's on the journey, out there that sometimes, you know, I get my best ideas.

Others say it happens in the shower.

For me, it happens in a metro park.

So try that in your next slogan.

Sloganeering.

Yeah.

Let's start.

We get out of the shower and get to a metro park.

Yes.

Showering.

Not for mayor Wade.

Yeah, yeah.

We often talk with our mayor Monday again, guests about their history.

And even though you're the mayor of our city and we know you, let's talk a little bit about that.

You're from Toledo.

You were born in Toledo.

Tell us a little bit about your family and and your educational career.

Actually, I'm as Toledo as it gets.

Starting at the age of two and a half months.

I was actually born in San Diego.

Because my dad then you're Vito as a guest.

I mean, you could have been born here.

Fair enough.

Fair enough.

Okay, this is a gotcha program.

I don't look at your program.

Yeah, my dad was in the Navy and so, I was born in a naval base, in, in San Diego, which is a big, you know, naval community.

So something called the Balboa Naval Hospital is where I was born.

But we moved, to Toledo when I was, two and a half months.

As the story goes, you know, my dad gets, discharged, you know, young couple, they don't have, a lot of money.

So the Navy will pay for one move.

My dad's from Connecticut, new out, New England.

All his brothers and sisters are spread out New England.

My mom is from Toledo.

And as every tie vote in the history of marriage has gone, it's been broken 1 to 1 in favor of the wife.

As it should be.

So we moved, to my mom's hometown of Toledo and, you know, been here ever.

That was 52.5 years.

Did they need.

They met?

I guess on a blind date.

My dad again, in the Navy.

But he.

His training was at Great Lakes, which is the sort of naval training station just outside of Chicago.

And so, as the story goes, he was, you know, doing his training there and had sort of maybe a weekend pass or something.

Connecticut's pretty far away.

And, if you only have a weekend.

He had met a friend named Ron Rio.

Someone Ron.

Yeah, I mean Ronnie to me, but.

Yeah, sure.

Yeah, yeah.

But the sort of person that, as my life evolved, was so close to the family that would be.

He became uncle.

Uncle, right?

Yes.

He is the most uncle to me.

No, no, he just found a buddy from Toledo.

And his buddy Ron was going home to Toledo, for, the weekend pass to be with his girlfriend.

Someone I knew, his aunt Shelly.

You see where this is headed?

Yeah.

So, anyhow, so, Aunt Shelly's best friend, was a woman named Karen, and that turned out to be my my mom.

So they came home, you know, my dad came home with his friend from Toledo.

They met.

He met my mom on a blind date.

And as part of the charm offensive.

Well, you've met my dad, so there is no charm offensive?

It's more offensive.

Offensive.

But, anyhow, I know that's how it.

And I guess the story, as the story goes, someone had asked my mom to marry him the day before.

The day before she met my dad.

Was it wrong?

It was.

It wasn't right.

I've never trusted him.

Yeah, it wasn't wrong, but it must not have.

Because inevitably, for this story to make sense, my mom had to say, I'll get back to you on that.

So.

Right.

To the extent she didn't give an immediate answer, it was probably an indication that she would hope she wouldn't go on a blind date after accepting.

Yes.

Yeah.

That's right.

Yeah.

So anyhow, that's so that's how they met.

And, that's how we ended up in Toledo, essentially.

My mom, you know, mom's, hometown and my dad, was a Toledo police officer, and my mom was a, preschool teacher.

She's the artistic, one.

She also taught classes at the museum.

Art museum.

She's very, you know, kind of right brain, creative, artsy.

My dad is the, you know, kind of by the books.

You know, he's the one who would help me with calculus homework.

And, my mom would be the one and say, oh, Homer, it's not that important that, you know, go, you know, go.

You go saying, yeah, you know, and do art, you know, so but the most important.

Yeah, that's exactly right.

Different sides of the brain, I mean, so both both of your parents serving the community in, in different lanes.

I mean, did you always know that you wanted to do that?

Their influence really has been important.

I mean, the the, the notion of giving back to the community and serving the community somehow.

What was always something I knew I wanted to do.

I wasn't sure how, you know, the son of a cop and a teacher, the idea of, you know, kind of making your community a better place is you're just sort of born with it.

So now, I didn't know it was going to be, in, in government, in politics, actually, I really wasn't sure what I wanted to do.

I had a notion that I, wanted to be a reporter, actually.

And so when I went to Cal, I went to Saint Francis High School, and then I went up to, Marquette University, which is a Jesuit school up in Milwaukee as a journalism major, I suppose.

God forbid it had things not, changed, I'd be, writing for the Toledo Blade today, or what's left of the day to hit a play to a to little blade.com.

But I met as someone at Marquette, and I hardly ever talk about this, but it is an important part of the story.

And this is not an uncommon thing in a Catholic school like Marquette.

He was a Catholic priest, named father O'Brien, who taught a course in, I think it was in Intro to Intro to Political Science or American, something like that.

I had never taken political science in high school, to the extent the word science was in the course title, I was pretty sure I wasn't gonna like it.

But he was a really charismatic, inspiring person talking about, you know, and look, I didn't realize at the time, but looking back, you know, his age, he, you know, he would have been born.

And the father was always cryptic about how old he was.

But piecing it together, I want to say he was probably born in the early 40s.

Which would have meant he came of age in the mid 60s.

He's proudly Irish.

So that was a time where the Kennedys were on the ascent.

The Peace Corps.

Even from his faith perspective, Vatican two was happening.

It was just a time of activism and hope.

And so he would always talk about, you know, the good that can be done, by getting involved in public life, you know, probably inspired by the Kennedys.

And that's an inspiring message.

You know, when you're an 18 year old in the front row taking notes from Toledo, Ohio, and you talk about let's change the world, and there are people who can change the world, he said.

And they, you know, they're called congressmen and senator and mayor and school board member.

And wouldn't it be something that the people who were drawn to that work were, you know, good people?

And that is not to say everyone I've met in this line of work, fits that description.

But I've always said to myself that the, you know, day I start believing that is the day that, you know, I just give up and work for the Metroparks.

Yes.

Right.

So, teacher.

Yeah.

So I know he's still with us.

He's, he's pushing his mid 80s now, but he's someone I've kept in touch with.

He's a big part of your life.

Even today, next to my parents.

He's certainly the most important person in my life.

We, brought him back to Twitter to marry my wife and I, and we've brought him here when I've gotten, sworn in, to office.

So, father Tim O'Brien, we're talking with Wade Capps, the mayor of the city of Toledo, here on the mayor Monday on the 419.

When we come back, I do want to hear the story of how the mayor and Gretchen met.

And then we'll talk about the future of the city of Toledo.

We'll be right back on the 419.

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I want to talk about the story of.

Sorry, but, Mr.

Mayor, the story of Gretchen I'm meeting.

Are we back to talking about the Dick's experience?

With her?

Is that yours?

Right.

Is that how you been able to lose the weight, leaving that experience?

Yikes.

I know what I'm saying.

That the microphone emerges.

Yeah, right.

Yeah.

And we don't have to do this often.

How much I'm interested?

I've.

Ever since someone asked me to look down at my rescue something and keep an eye on a decision you made or something she would have handled differently.

Yeah, yeah, you can ask anything, I would, are you guys good?

You need anything for me?

And we're good.

Let me think about what it would be.

I don't.

We know.

Of course we get it.

I mean, this.

Yeah, yeah.

No, let me I it was like an opportunity.

I don't want to be like George W Bush.

I can't think of a single mistake, you know, because I know that's the one thing about him that, you know, actually, he's a great painter.

He is a great painter.

And now I would take him in a heartbeat.

He did the, you know, Diddy.

Yeah.

It's an original.

Yeah.

All right.

Is that fair to you?

Sure.

Sure, sure.

Yeah.

Kevin, I can leave back better after you.

Let's.

So let me ask the Gretchen question.

Got it.

And then we'll get back to serious stuff and can stay there.

Let's just do whatever you want, Kevin.

So I I'm at 9A7, six, five.

Welcome back into the 419.

It's mayor Monday and we're talking with the city of Toledo's own Wayne Capps a cabbage mayor, thank you so much.

I know you and Gretchen have known each other for a long time.

Mostly that's just because of how old Gretchen is.

Right?

But how did you guys.

How did you guys meet?

We met in high school.

We didn't attend the same high school since I went to Saint Francis.

And she went to Notre Dame.

But we met in high school because we were both in, we are both theatrically inclined, and we were both in musicals, together.

So I think we would have met the first time.

It would have been the, musical Bye Bye Birdie, which would have been my freshman year at Saint Francis.

And Gretchen's maybe junior.

I think Gretchen was two years ahead of me.

So, I was just a lowly cast member.

But Gretchen was in the rarefied air of having a lead, and she played Mrs.

Peterson.

McCarthy.

Mrs.

McCarthy.

Well, who's now Mrs.

Peterson?

It was Mrs.. I don't make me singer.

Sorry.

Oh, yeah.

Anyhow, so she, you know, so I just met her, through musicals.

And I want to say that, there might have been a cast party at your house when you lived in Old Orchard.

I remember that from the freshman or so.

And then.

Then, the next year, we were in Fiddler on the roof together, and I had a smaller apartment again.

Great.

Now Gretchen was Golda, right?

Right.

So she's again always have.

I think there's a theme emerging.

I am a peon.

Gretchen is, yes.

That status, the.

That's the theme of this show as well.

Yeah, yeah, the Gretchen's in charge and everyone else would just.

So.

No.

Now go.

That is a a returning Vietnam vet with PTSD is that I don't I'm not sure the story of that there yet.

Yes I thought did you guys get along right away.

But did you interact a tremendous amount.

Yeah.

You said I was so above him.

Yes.

Yeah.

That we now know.

But I think your sister, my my sister Jenny was your dance partner.

And and a couple of.

And.

Liz.

Liz.

More so Liz.

Because, they would match you up based on height and weight.

Tom came and did makeup, okay.

And so she did our makeup backstage.

And so it you know, our moms knew each other.

It was just one of those.

So ducking the question, did you get along or not?

Seems like.

Yeah.

Yes yes yes.

But remember how high school was.

When you are a lowly freshman you never interact with the juniors.

They are of higher status.

Okay.

So hey, you know, we I guess it would be fair to say you're right.

I was dance partners with her sister because we were of similar height.

I think it would be fair to say that because of being in those musicals in high school, we knew of each other.

And.

And then when Gretchen and her family started sufficient grounds.

Yes.

I was working, downtown, essentially right across the street from the downtown, sufficient grounds.

And it was, you know, one of those like, oh, I remember, yeah, the debacker girls from the musicals.

And, you know, we, you know, we'd go over there and hang out, and the rest is history.

Your dad, dad was supportive of, the theater part of your life or my dad?

Yeah, my dad is, he's he's a little more maybe theatrical than you would think when you would meet him, but, my mom is sort of the.

Again, like I said, the artsy one.

But my dad, I mean, both of them, for both me and my sister would be totally supportive of, you know, anything we want to do.

So I don't know that, you know, performing on stage or something that my dad would, be comfortable doing himself.

But when that was something that we wanted to do, he's like, hey, what can we do to help you fast forward all these years later and you guys have remained friends.

I know, Gretchen, you were active in, the mayor's campaigns to to be elected.

And I won despite that.

That's right, that's right, that's right.

And then.

And then you hired her.

That's right.

Yes.

Despite that?

Yes.

How how is he as a boss?

He's a very good boss.

He does tell a lot of historical stories that you just the first 20 minutes.

That's what's going to happen.

Yeah, but.

But everyone expects it.

How long did staff meetings last and how long could they have lasted?

One still going on.

No.

Yeah.

The it but I that's sort of a pessimistic way to look at the my approach because I just think of the tremendous benefit of being around someone who's able to helpfully explain, you know, stuff we got to do.

Sounds like victim blaming to me.

Yeah.

I don't know the definition of that, like I. Brandon, I, when he was on, I remember him talking about, oh, he always reminds me of how young I am.

Oh, that's because Brandon made the sin of, Or committed the sin of admitting that he had never heard of the Edmund Fitzgerald so that I think on November 15th, maybe one year, I said, this is it, this is the anniversary.

And, you know, someone like Brandon stared blankly back at me and I said, you know, the Edmund Fitzgerald.

What's that?

And so then, yeah, that and I just think now of how much richer and better a person Brandon is for knowing.

And that's exactly my story.

That's exactly my it's not just the story of the ship, but who Edmund Fitzgerald was.

Of course, he was the CEO of Northwestern Mutual in Milwaukee and friends of Bud Selig, who helped bring the Brewers from Seattle and the Seattle Pilots.

Because when I tell a story, we go deep into the future.

And now Brandon is better for it.

So he's a better welcome.

You know, you're a better person.

The thing that's interesting is also, it's not just historical facts.

We had to go when I when we were working on Wade's campaign for mayor, we had to go to a we had the opportunity.

There you go.

Do you go to a talent show?

Oh yeah.

That was at I don't remember.

It was it was a bar.

And so all these candidates had to show up and do a talent show.

And I won, and Wade won, and the talent that we picked was anyone in the audience can pick it, punched him in the face or arm wrestle.

Could pick the the Academy Award winning movie.

Who won the World Series or who won the Super Bowl?

It was.

Here's how the shtick went.

The other candidates were playing the piano or tap dance.

What a waste of time.

Yes, that's right, that's what I'm Karen was saying.

That's what I did say.

Yeah.

Before he died.

Nancy, my heart was so.

Yeah.

I'm pretty good at this, man.

You are pretty good.

So I thought I was going to get you.

Yeah.

No.

So my talent was to have members of the audience yell out a year and a year just to get here, and then I would be able, depending on the year, for every year, I tell you.

Which movie won the Academy Award for Best Picture?

Who won the Super Bowl?

When the World Series?

When the Heisman Trophy.

And there might have been one other so.

And I Heisman Trophy as well.

All right.

Yeah.

So let's do it.

You go ahead.

Matt.

What you were you born 1978, 1978 would be deer Hunter.

Okay.

Now some people say, oh, Annie Hall.

No, Annie Hall was never cared for those people.

Okay?

Annie Hall was the best picture in 77.

Now, yes, the ceremony is in February or March of 78 for the best picture for 78 was deer Hunter, which is where Meryl Streep, you know who?

John Jon Voight.

No, no, not Jon Voight.

The character, the man who played Fredo, in The Godfather.

John.

And his name is John Amaechi.

No.

John something.

John calzone.

Yes.

Right.

You're very close.

Anyhow, this man was in five movies in his life, all of them.

Dog day afternoon.

Yes.

He was in godfathers.

Godfather.

But godfather, this year you don't want to end the conversation.

And the conversation was in five movies.

They were all nominated for Best Picture.

Yeah.

And then he died.

But his wife was Meryl Streep, and they were in that movie.

That was his Meryl Streep.

It, he died while there.

Any who.

So it is the Deer hunters 1978 World Series would have been the, Yankees over the Dodgers and six games the Super Bowl, assuming.

Well, the answer in either case is the Steelers because they won Super Bowl 13.

Which well, it was Super Bowl 13 from the 78 season that even though was played in 79.

Or if you are going to insist on who won the Super Bowl played in 1970, that would be Super Bowl 12, where the Cowboys beat the Broncos.

Where do they play the Superdome in Super Bowl 12 and, the Orange Bowl in Super Bowl 13?

What else do we have?

Heisman Trophy would be, Earl Campbell from Texas.

And what else did I say?

We said World Series.

Stanley Cup would have been Montreal over Boston.

Okay.

Yeah, that's, basketball would have been the get ready for this, awkward name.

The Washington Bullets.

Yeah.

Before they were renamed the Washington Bullets.

But the Seattle SuperSonics, how do you when you read it?

So anyhow.

So I'm commission do you do you remember it forever or do you, do you work to memorize these things?

No.

I have this sort of thing where, whenever I read something that I find interesting, I never forget it and never have to practice, remembering it.

The problem is.

And people say, oh, you have a photographic memory.

No, no.

A photographic memory is when you remember everything you read.

There are plenty of things I read that I don't find interesting and don't commit to memory.

But if I find it interesting, I never forget it.

So I can tell you everything you need to know about, the 1932 World Series.

Meanwhile, you can't write weddings like this.

Yeah, I can't nothing about my wife.

You've met her.

Is it Sarah?

Sarah?

Or is it Cindy?

Sarah and I have.

How many kids I was gonna ask you.

You've also.

You've always told me.

Mark.

Yeah.

No, no, no.

And and actually, But you won that.

He won that town.

I bet doing that.

Yeah.

So.

So again, what year you're born, 1981.

You're younger.

You're.

I thought that you.

I thought we did, too.

Interesting.

Okay, I tell you, the secret to my youthful everything is a below 90 IQ.

Can I move that burden?

Go some other square.

How do you guys just, like, just skip right past the insult that just happened?

It was great.

81 Chariots of Fire.

Oh, boy.

Your favorite movie.

Words.

Okay, so the, Super Bowl would have been Super Bowl 16.

So that is 40 Niners over Bengals.

What else am I, the World Series?

The again Yankees and Dodgers.

But this time the Dodgers win in the strike shortened year.

So and Gretchen has won what 2000 2000 2000 okay.

So that would be what's the Mayan calendar?

There's, there's so there's got to be anybody who is based on the money.

Let's let's do this.

Let's let's switch it up.

No one won the Heisman Trophy.

In the meantime, I want to ask you one question.

Monster.

I do have a quick question.

What?

Gladiator won best picture of the year?

Gretchen was born in the year 2000 and.

And she's 26 now.

So I had the unplugging.

What is a guilty pleasure, a guilty pleasure?

Somebody might be surprised that you're into some dumb you watch Below Deck, or you play, Sega.

Well, you know, it's interesting the I mean, I don't have a tie sometimes at the end, it it's rare, but at the end of a day, sometimes I will kind of, veg out and just do a brain dump, playing Madden.

Okay.

But and actually, I thought that was, something unique to me until the American version of House of cards, came out and the evil demonic politician played by Kevin Spacey does the exact same thing.

I'm like, isn't it amazing that he can play that crazy of a person and be such a normal and sort of normal person?

Like, yeah.

And so then I said to myself simultaneously, oh, someone else does what I do, and the someone else who does what I do is like an evil murderer.

So for a politician, what does that mean?

All right.

If I ever have a chance to say that and in front of a mic, I'll tell him exactly that.

I do the same thing.

So it's now time for Gretchen's wacky quiz.

But, Papa, it's not that wacky for rapid fire questions for me, Gretchen is asking for your favorite thing in or about Toledo, and then you and Matt all work together to describe Toledo in exactly nine words.

All right.

What's the longest word that you know?

Well, that's an easy one for you.

Supercalifragilisticexpialidocio Does that count?

It does.

Okay.

What was the first thing woke up this morning?

Let me be an excuse.

Other texting Gretchen and telling her I was going to be ten minutes late to the studio.

If you turned into a ghost, who would you haunt first?

Oh, my God, that's a good.

Oh.

My wife.

Yeah, for sure.

I know she's the one.

The your life and hunter in life.

I just, I it's just practice.

Yeah.

I'll do what I already leave the cupboard doors open.

Yeah.

This would be fun.

How would you say your name if you were an alien?

Oh, boy.

I would still say Wade.

No, I think it would be a cabbage.

That's my alien voice.

Do you like that?

Yeah.

No, you got to clarify it.

I could you do the rest?

The interview with the the universe?

Certainly.

Yeah.

Such a good actor.

Who's your favorite Milwaukee buck of all time?

I can see why Gretchen always got that.

I was there.

Jack Sigma, I don't know.

What's your number?

You know, I used to work for the Milwaukee bar.

We've had this conversation nine times.

What's your number one?

Most.

Or what you consider to be the best thing about the city of Toledo.

I've said this before, and, it's.

I'll say it.

It continues to be the case.

I'm going to say it.

And it is.

Despite sketchy leadership, I'm a big fan of our Metroparks.

I there's a lot of great things about Toledo.

I mean, there really are, you know, the Metro, the museum two years in a row now, best in the country in Virginia.

She's got another U.S.

open.

We got a great zoo.

And I think the metro parks are the best thing that we do.

And I just think of how much better they could be if Matt didn't work.

Okay, but there is a campaign.

Okay.

Well, we are we've been made better by your leadership.

And, you know, I think that.

All right, you need, buddy, nine words to describe the CD into our region.

Jack.

Second, I already take those for to a very gritty and resilient place.

Full of love.

Nice.

Oh, man, is that good.

It's great.

Cats.

The cabbage.

The mayor of the city of Toledo.

The most interesting man in the world.

Yeah, I don't know.

He's, That's my dream.

He's.

Yeah.

Thank you so much for joining us here on a mayor Monday.

When we come back, we'll continue on the 418.

Thanks, Mr.

mayor.

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Welcome back in to the 419.

It's Mayer Monday.

And another exciting conversation and a tour of a city that we all live in.

Yeah.

So, the first time, having weighed on for mayor Monday, but not the first time that we've had him on this show.

All right.

If you missed any part of the show.

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on FM 91 in Toledo.

Brian Defiance and Lima, 6 p.m.. And connect channel 30.4 on the TV, of course.

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Thanks to Mayor Weight Caps, a brand sell horse for joining us on a bear Monday and thanks to you too.

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