- (female announcer) Production funding for Behind the Headlines is made possible in part by the WKNO Production Fund, the WKNO Endowment Fund, and by viewers like you, thank you.

- State House representative and candidate for mayor, Karen Camper, tonight on Behind The Headlines.

[intense orchestral music] I'm Eric Barnes with The Daily Memphian, thanks for joining us.

I am joined tonight by Karen Camper from the House of Representatives, as well as a candidate for mayor.

Thank you for being here again.

- Thank you, glad to be here.

- Along with Bill Dries, reporter with the Daily Memphian.

Before we get started, I should note that this is one of a series of interviews, one-on-one that we're doing with candidates for mayor.

We've reached out to what we've deemed the top eight candidates.

Recently, we had Frank Colvett, city councilman on, coming up, Michelle McKissack, JW Gibson, Van Turner.

We've also are in the midst of reaching out to Floyd Bonner, Paul Young, and Willie Herenton.

The criteria for that is a combination of the limited polling that's available, as well as financial success so far, both in terms of dollar amount and the number of donors, as well as past electoral success.

There's no particular magic, or scheme, or anything to the order in which candidates have been coming on.

It's just, it's as we've been able to line them up with their schedule and ours.

All of this leads up to a debate on WKNO, on August 15th at 7 PM.

All the eight candidates I just mentioned, including Representative Camper, have all been invited to that.

That will be a 90-minute debate here on WKNO.

More to come on that, as well.

All of this, I should say, is also a follow up to a forum we did, that we live streamed from the Orpheum, or actually from the Halloran Center, back in, I believe it was April, that was focused just on crime.

That's available if you go to Daily Memphian, you know, Google, or search on Daily Memphian for "mayor debate," or just go to our YouTube channel, and you can get that past 90-minute debate, as well.

All this leads up to, Election Day is October 5th, but early voting begins September 15th, and I think that's probably enough housekeeping for now.

Representative Camper, thank you very much for being here.

You have been in the House since, the State House since 2008.

- Yes.

- When you look back at that and what, that record is part of what you're running on as mayor?

- Absolutely.

- And why, what you want to bring to the mayor's office.

When you, we can talk about your successes, or I'll let you do that, but when you look back on that now almost 15 years, what would you have done differently?

- Wow, what would I have done differently?

I think I would have, I don't know, maybe ran for leadership sooner.

[laughs] - Yeah, 'cause you are minority leader now, the Democratic leader on the House side?

- I am, yes.

- You are, yes you are.

- House minority leader, yes.

- Yeah, yeah.

And, what has that brought to the experience?

- Well, what that does, is opens the door for you, the more with the administration.

So, you're able to have access to more conversation with commissioners, with the governor, you have a regular meeting with all of the House and Senate leadership.

So, it's give you an opportunity to really know, understand, and appreciate what state government does, and how it can affect and help your communities.

So, you get that personal touch with leadership, and you can influence leadership once you develop that rapport.

So yeah, I think I probably would've ran for leadership a lot sooner.

- It, well, one thing that is, again, both part of the mayor's race is crime and guns, and we've talked to candidates about that, we talked at the forum I mentioned earlier.

Coming up sometime in the next month or so, the governor is, has said he will be calling a special session of the legislature, focused on guns.

We talked last week, Brent Taylor, State Senator Brent Taylor, from the Memphis area was on talking about, he's a Republican, talking about his perspective of what a Republican super majority legislature can do, or should do.

But, in your world, ideally, what would the governor bring up, and what would come out of this upcoming special session?

- Well, let me just say that on the day that the Covenant shooting took place, that night, we had a shooting here at Club Privé, and at the end of the session, the Republican leader came to my desk and said, "Leader, I'm open to a conversation about what we can do with gun violence."

I didn't ask him that, he came to me.

So, that was a key moment to me that there's an opportunity to actually get something done.

Later that same evening as the speaker was leaving, he came to my desk and said, "Leader, I'm open."

So, to me, that's good.

So, we have an opportunity.

Now, I wanted to get it done while we were there.

We had the time, we could have went into delayed bills, you know, put something together, and actually put forth some legislation then.

We didn't do that.

So, I was a little dismayed, you know, behind that, because they were open.

But now, I feel like the governor, who also feels something needs to be done, is putting us in a position where we can actually get something done, and focus mainly just on gun violence in the state of Tennessee.

- Let me bring in Bill Dries.

- Some time has passed between the Covenant shooting and the shooting here in Memphis.

Do you think that that has changed the outlook of the Republican majority on the urgency of this situation, and the urgency of the legislature doing something on the gun issue?

- I would say "yes" to that.

I do still feel that you're gonna have your extreme wings on both sides.

You're gonna have those, that's the rightest of the right, and the leftest of the left, that are gonna be in their corners.

But, 70% of us are in the middle.

And so, the opportunity is before us.

And, it's not just those two incidents.

They just happened to be on the same day.

But, we had the Kroger shooting out in Collierville, and we've had other things that have impacted the state of Tennessee, and our citizens are telling us "do something."

So, I do feel like 70% of us, House, Senate, R and D, believes something needs to be done, and that something can be done, but it's up to us to actually have the courage to do it.

- In your campaign appearances, you have talked about a more comprehensive crime plan than we currently have, right?

- Yes.

- And, so, what is it that you want to see that plan accomplish?

And, what would that plan do that we're not, we've not been able to do, or areas that we've not been able to access, so far, in the discussion?

- I think that what we do, is we spend a lot of time not looking at public safety from a holistic perspective.

We spend a lot of time on crime reduction, which is important, but how do you get to that?

We have not spent enough resources in making it a priority to intervene and prevent, to shut off the pipeline.

I think there's an entire ecosystem from law enforcement, police, fire, the DA's Office, the courts, what do we do when they come back home to us?

How do we help with the nonprofits that's doing such great work, the churches, and get everybody together on the same sheet of music, on public safety, not just crime reduction, because it's an entire ecosystem that goes into that.

So, this year in the general assembly, there was funding in the budget to send more resources to law enforcement for crime reduction, I mean for intervention and prevention, which is a good thing, but we need more of it.

And, it needs to become a more of a priority, because if you have a long term public safety strategy, our police officers are not in this constant tactical fighting.

And, that's what's happening right now.

They're tactically engaged, you know, all the time, all the time.

We gotta free them up from that.

They have a family that they care about, their morale is low sometimes, it's a lot of stress and pressure on them.

So, we're able to reduce the amount of tactical fighting that they're doing, and we are thinking long-term strategic, then that'll free them up to do more community involvement, more community policing, take the pressure off.

Now, they're solve rate is great!

They gonna solve a crime here, but we gotta give them some relief with more intervention and prevention.

- And, we've featured some of the nonprofits that are working in the intervention area.

And, there are a lot of programs out there that look at different aspects of it.

Are they as coordinated as you think they should be?

Or is this a case of where we have people, and to use a very cliched word, in silos, who are, kind of, doing their own thing, and maybe duplicating each other in the process?

- I do feel some of that is taking place, which is why I said we have to look comprehensively, and have one public safety mission that everybody buys into.

So, regardless of what it is you're doing in your nonprofit it's feeding and it's supporting the overall mission.

And so there needs to be more coordination, 'cause everybody is doing the best that they can.

They are working in this arena because they want to make a difference.

But, man, if we just pull it all together on a collaborative basis, we can do so much more.

- What can be done with the, so many questions on this, but what can be done in terms of the offenses of, you know, say auto thefts and auto break-ins are way up, I mean, I think they've doubled, you know, or something like that, in the last year.

They are scary for people.

They're intrusive, they're angering.

They're costly and they, you know, people have to take a day off, or half a day off from work to get a window replaced.

It's hundreds of dollars.

I mean, there's a whole spiral of that.

Too often it seems like, I mean, and I say too often just, 'cause it makes me sad, it's young people, right?

It's teenagers doing this.

A lot of them, I mean, what are those interventions with that kind of crime that can be done to address, effectively, that young person?

Is it, you know, we've had people on the show say, "Look, they may gotta spend a couple nights in jail."

We've had people say, you know, they need to be out and back with their family.

What can work to change that kid's life?

- Well, I think there's a couple of things there.

Law enforcement would tell you, and this is from the chiefs of police across this state, the sheriffs across this state, the DA's conference across this state, would tell you that bill that was passed, that we fought vigorously against to allow guns to be stored in cars, as an extension of your home, is when you saw the incline of people breaking in cars, breaking in cars, breaking in trying to get those weapons.

That's one thing, we can repeal that, and I think that will be key to do, when we go back in this special session, to repeal that law.

Secondly, we've gotta be more innovative in thought in how we engage our young people.

Some of the things that we do in some of our community centers, and even in our churches, where they're really trying to help, has got to change.

We have got to be more innovative in thought.

These young people have been on cell phones, and Nintendo, and PlayStation since they've been in the world.

So, what I'm proposing is this vocational technical zone, which is a fun place to be, but they're learning a career at the same time.

It has about 22 different careers in it.

They can come in there for one thing, and learn something else.

One example I'll give you, and make it short, I had a nonprofit dealing with young folks that want to be in performing arts.

So, you come because you want to rap, and you wanna sing, and everything have to be on a positive note, but somebody's gotta do the lighting.

Somebody's gotta do the stage, somebody's gotta do the hair, somebody's gotta do the makeup, wardrobe, everything it takes to put that performance on, all of those careers will be there.

And so, you build a partnership with the schools to get the young people there to be exposed to it, but that emerging adult, that's 18 to 24-ish, and the college students, they're the ones that are being trained, that are being trained to train and teach the young folks as they come through.

Then, and there's several of these careers in there, you can have, you know, culinary arts, it's like "Chopped", then you have a production team to come over and film them.

So, it's innovative like that, but then that innovative zone in our community centers become extensions of that.

So now, not only do you have this one zone of activity, but you also have, in the community centers, where the young people that go through there, can take it to the younger people in the community.

We've gotta do more things like that, that's more interesting and engaging for them.

- One more, we talked before about police, and community policing.

Some, you know, in the way that politics gets so simplified, I think, maybe, folks who haven't heard you talk, would, "Well, she's a Democrat, she's a life-long, "long-time Democrat in leadership, "so she wants to defund the police, or reduce the number of police officers, or that."

That's really not what I think you've been saying.

- Oh, never.

- Do we need more police?

- I feel that there have been plenty of studies that show and demonstrate we need more police officers.

That's a true statement.

The question becomes, what do you do with the police?

How do you engage them in the community?

How do you decide that we're going to get out of this rapid, constant, you know, tactical fighting, and have a long-term plan where Ms. Jones in the community can trust Officer Mike, or whoever he is?

So, yeah, we may need more police, but what do we do when we have them?

- Real briefly before I go back to Bill.

Do do you have a number in mind, and how would you recruit them?

Police forces around the country, not just Memphis, are struggling to hire police.

Well, roughly how many, and how to recruit?

- You've got to have a vision that they all believe in, and fight for, and are invested in, and where they can see themself as a part of this world class force.

I wanna make Memphis number one in the country, to be honest with you, police force.

Now, pay is always the issue.

Here, with respect to all the competing law enforcement agency in our county and region.

And, I agree that we need to have more, I guess maybe, I think the number, the last study, was about 2,500.

I wouldn't argue that study.

The experts have looked at it.

I imagine they know what they're talking about.

So, yeah, we need to do that.

But, to keep them, we've got to do something to build a morale.

Pay is always an issue.

But, we've also got to get our police in a position where, number one, if we had this public safety plan that everybody buys into, and we're moving forward, that's gonna bring more people and resources back to the city of Memphis.

- Bill, about 10 minutes left.

- As you were talking about guns in cars, I can almost hear some of your Republican colleagues from rural counties who are saying, "Well, we haven't had a problem with car thefts here."

What do you think the odds are that when you go back in August, that there's some kind of quote, unquote, "carve out" for urban areas, like Memphis, to have different regulations on guns than other parts of the state?

- What I would say to you, is that there's already a precedent for something like that to happen.

We just have to have the courage to do it.

And, I think that what we're hearing from people who are affected by this, they're expecting us to do it.

They want us to do it.

Now, we've got to go there and make the compelling argument to our members across the aisle, to get it done.

And so, there's always something that the other side wants too, that they're experiencing in their district that's very different than mine, or very different than Memphis.

And, if there's a way to compromise, to ensure that they get what they need for their community, then there's a possibility that we can get what we need for our community.

It has been done before, it just takes courage to do it.

- As you mentioned, you came to the legislature in 2008, two years in, the Republicans become the majority, not a super majority, but become a majority in the House, and in the Senate.

What was that like, because two years goes fast in political service.

So, I would imagine you're still, kind of, learning the ropes, and what it is to be the majority party, when all of a sudden you're the minority party in the House.

What was that like?

- It was interesting because you gotta, as you say, when I got there, we were in the actual super majority.

It was 67 when I got there.

And, two years later we're at this minority position.

And so, if you think about all of the members who were used to being chairmans, used to, you know, running the House, running things, who are now not in those positions.

It's really, it's a grieving process that you have to go through, it's a loss.

It is a traumatic experience like anything else, and a loss.

So, our caucus had to go through this period of grief, to be honest with you.

And so, as we were moving through that, and working through it within our own ranks, two years after that, we had a big group who decided to retire, which is what got us in the super minority.

But, still, I'm an eternal optimist.

We are here representing people.

I still feel we can get things done.

We had to learn how to function in this new world we were in, but you still, in politics period, relationships mean something.

- And, so, in city government, this is a majority city.

This is the biggest blue spot in a very red state.

So, within city government, are there parallels that you feel like can do this?

I mean, the mayor's race is a nonpartisan race.

- It is.

- But, increasingly, we're so polarized in America today that everything seems to come down to, "Yeah, it's nonpartisan, but here are the Democrats, and here are the Republicans."

- I will say that is, I believe, a sign of the times.

Everything is hyperpolarized, hyperpartisan, you know, but there's still a way.

And, I think people can look at my history as a military officer, when we're just here to serve, we just have a mission to get done.

It didn't matter your background, we all had political stuff, it didn't come into play once you bought into the mission.

And so, here we are, in my public life as a legislator, I've demonstrated, credibly, that I can work across the aisles to get things done.

And, I know how important that's gonna be in this city.

And, I'm telling you, if we put that stuff, and check it at the door, we can move this city to greatness, like I know it can be, and I feel like I'm the only candidate can do it, to be honest with you.

- One of the most nonpartisan issues, and also one of the most technical issues, is solid waste.

The City Council has been having a lot of discussions, over a lot of years now, about solid waste, the problems with collection, the general appearance of the city.

What would you do, as mayor, to rectify that situation, or to fix what the city does, in terms of solid waste services?

- Well, the first thing I'd do is evaluate what we're doing, and where our priorities are, because generally that will determine a lot, in terms of where your direction will be.

But, I also have an entire plan, where I think we need to, that we can implement to clean our city up.

But, it's gonna take money to do it.

So, here again, we gotta develop an opportunity to bring resources, and a tax base, back to the city, 'cause part of it is that.

So, much of our resources and tax dollars go to public service workers and, you know, police, and fire and the things that we have to do for our city.

So, we need a bigger, larger tax base in order to address the issue that you're talking about.

So, I would obviously look at it and review what we're doing now, and see what we can do better.

But, I have a whole plan around how we can clean our city up, as well.

- When we talk about tax base, and building that tax base, a lot of what's been used over the past couple of decades, are tax incentives, be that PILOT, TIF, different types of incentives.

How would you do that differently?

Would you go more all-in on tax incentives?

What would your plan be?

- Well, I, tax incentives has its role, and it has its value.

But, I'm just telling you, when you look at our inner city, let's take Triggs, Lauderdale, over there.

If I can get an incentive to turn that around, then yes, I will support something like that.

Right there in the heart of that area, you have Boo Mitchell Studio, that needs to be an entertainment district!

So, if tax incentives can help turn that around, then yes.

But, I do feel we need to evaluate it, because we have citizens who believe we do too much of that.

And, we continue to pay, we continue to pay, as taxpayers.

- With just a couple minutes left here, I'm bouncing around.

Bill brought up some infrastructure.

I'll stay with that.

MLGW, it is, you know, it is independent of the city, but owned by the city.

It's effectively under the city.

Do you, you know, just again, we had a huge storm that hit Bartlett, which is outside the city, but nonetheless, big storms, power outages.

Do we need major change at MLGW?

- I think we need major investment in our infrastructure.

And, the opportunity is here with the infrastructure plan that President Biden did, and sent money down, directly to us, and through the city for infrastructure.

So, it's gonna cost a lot of money to do, if we had a higher tax base in our inner cities, and in our neighborhood, that would help, so that the same citizens are not bearing a burden, but the funding is there from the federal government for us to do something about it.

And, if we were to invest in that, in a way that, you know, replace some of those old rotten poles, you know, it's a lot of things that we can do, but it takes resources to do.

And, the funding is available for us to do it.

- Let's stay on infrastructure, and talk about roads.

The man you're trying to succeed, Jim Strickland, said, "Look, if I go to a community meeting, "if I meet with constituents, "one of the number one things they talk about is roads and potholes, and the state of the roads."

- Yes.

- One thing that he, his approach to, there are a lot of state roads separate from the highways.

- Yeah.

- State roads, Poplar, Many people don't realize is actually a state highway.

I think parts of Lamar, parts of Union, are other examples.

He has had the strategy of, "Look, that's the state's responsibility."

In the old days, the city would pave or improve, and then send a bill to the state.

The state would, by the city's estimation, repay it at a low late.

He said, "We're not doing that anymore.

"We're gonna just work them, and try to get them to pave those streets."

Well, how would you approach that, especially given your perspective with state government?

- I would say that I get those same calls, even though I'm the state representative, you know, [laughs] and it is a local issue.

So, I get the point because it is number one, people's, you know, cars are being torn up, and I'm sure you all have experienced the same thing.

We will, I feel like, we do need to leverage the state, the more, and I think that's, you know, as Karen Camper, House minority leader, have those relationships with the Department of Transportation, and in the Governor's Office to pave those roads, to go after, you know.

But, it has to be a strategy that we can buy into.

I'm telling you, you can't piecemeal it.

You have to have a strategy and a plan to achieve that.

And, I'm not saying that he doesn't, but I will have to look at what that plan is, and say, "How do we redirect our energy toward that to get things done?"

- All right, Karen Camper, thank you so much for being here.

We're really appreciate it.

As I noted at the beginning of the show, if you joining late, we're reaching out to the top eight candidates.

So, we recently had Frank Colvett on, coming up, JW Gibson, Michelle McKissack, Van Turner.

We're reaching out to Paul Young, Willie Herenton, and Floyd Bonner.

Hope to get them on in the coming weeks.

All that leading up to a debate here on WKNO on August 15th at 7 PM.

More to come on that.

And, early voting begins September 15th, not that far away.

Bill, thank you.

Again, Representative Camper, thank you.

Thank you all for joining us.

If you missed any of the show today, go to YouTube, go to WKNO, go to wherever you get your podcasts.

Thanks very much, and we'll see you next week.

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