- Just ahead on Black Issues Forum, a locally-based nonprofit that's been creating opportunities for communities in the South kicks off its 20th State of the South Tour in Durham.

Find out how MDC is continuing to create equity, and how you can get involved.

Stay with us.

[upbeat music] ♪ Welcome to Black Issues Forum.

I'm Deborah Holt Noel.

North Carolina is a southern state.

You probably knew that.

But how does our distinct geography also inform us about our challenges, opportunities, and as today's guests have studied, our possibilities?

This year, MDC sets off on a tour called The State of the South: Reclaiming Southern Heritage and History," a series of convenings to explore systems that govern voter engagement and access, gentrification and displacement, and equitable economic development.

Take a look around the triangle, the Triad, Charlotte, even areas once considered rural, and you will see that these issues figure prominently, and they greatly impact black, brown, and native communities.

I wanna welcome John Simpkins, President and CEO of MDC.

John is a scholar of constitutional law and former counsel to the Obama administration.

I also wanna welcome Dr. Adriane D. Lentz-Smith, Associate Professor of History at Duke University.

So excited to have both of you with us today.

John, MDC is a nonprofit based in Durham and established back in 1967 as part of Governor Terry Sanford's anti-poverty program.

Since then, you've brought together foundations, nonprofits, and leaders in government and private industry around a report that provides data to help them find solutions to some of the region's biggest problems.

And in a recent presentation, John, you talked about possibilities as opposed to opportunities.

Let's dig right in with that.

And mentioning at the top that we see North Carolina as one of the top areas to live in, and building is really off the charts.

Are opportunities here and possibilities reaching diverse communities in our state?

- Well, Deb, first, thank you for having me on the show.

And I'd wanna say that no, opportunities or possibilities are not truly available to the broadest range of our community.

And when I talk about possibility as opposed to opportunity, think of it like a menu.

You look at a menu and there are 15 items on the menu, but you can only afford two.

You have the opportunity to order anything on the menu, but it's not possible for you to have everything on the menu.

We want people to live choice-filled lives.

And we believe that there's a greater opportunity for more people in North Carolina and the 13 states that we serve to have lives of real possibility, where they can live into their true talents.

And that's what we're really focused on at MDC as we launch the State of the South effort, which is really a re-imagination.

It's no longer just a report.

It's an opportunity to engage with the public through the work that we do, as well as learn from the experts who live these conditions every day.

- So there are so many reports out there and conversations in groups.

What exactly is the effective work of MDC?

How does it actually work?

- MDC really focuses on three areas.

We do research and analysis to inform systems change, and we look at how systems operate and then seek to make those systems produce better outcomes by changing the way those systems work.

And then we prepare people to be leaders in those new systems and in those different systems.

So it's this combination of research and framing systems designed for systems change and equity-centered leadership, leaders who think differently, who work collaboratively, who approach their task humbly, and understand that they're constantly learning.

The way that manifests itself in reality, in North Carolina specifically, for example, is a program that we've engaged in in partnership with the United Way of Greater Greensboro, the Guilford Success Network.

That network is intended to connect individuals in the Greater Greensboro area to state and federal supports that will give them an opportunity to move out of their current conditions.

What we find across the south, not just in North Carolina, is that often, the supports that are available to individuals go unused or accessed, because people don't have the time to sit in an office and apply and ensure that they're eligible for everything.

We've eliminated that by taking what we call a no wrong door approach.

When you apply for one system of support, you're immediately introduced to everything that you're eligible for.

And you can apply to all of those opportunities at one time, so that you don't have to go back to another appointment, take time off of work.

We wanna streamline that process and then actually use those supports to give you an opportunity to save money to get a downpayment on a car, to get a deposit on an apartment, to take an extra course that's gonna allow you to move up the ladder at work.

We think that all of these are realistic opportunities.

They're actually budget neutral.

We're not asking for new money to do this.

We're really trying to take advantage of the money that we currently put into these systems that often goes unused.

- So in many ways, working behind the scenes, people probably don't even know that MDC is doing those things.

So thank you for sharing.

And you mentioned systems.

Adriane, it seems that we continue to be challenged by the existing systems that we're operating in, wineskins, if you will, that kind of neutralize well-intended high impact programs or solutions.

What are some of those systems and programs specifically perhaps in education, criminal justice, housing?

- Sure, so I think it's important to keep in mind that when we talk about, so I'm an African American historian.

I'm a historian of Jim Crow, right?

So pre-civil rights era, into the civil rights era.

And when we talk about Jim Crow, or what the architects of it actually called, loudly and proudly, white supremacy.

We are actually talking about a policy system.

It was about legislation.

It was about allocation of power and resources, and it was built by legislators and policy makers.

And so the things that we are working with now, the policies, the structures are inheritances from a previous time when the system was designed to hold resources and power in the hands of a very small few.

Not white people, broadly speaking, but a small subset of white people.

You see that then in the way that what was once a dual educational system in which the black side- in a segregated educational system the black side was poorly, poorly resourced.

When there were schools, they stopped at 11th grade, which then limited where people could go to school afterwards, and how they could be educated.

And sort of worse infrastructure for black students, teacher pay not at all equal, and we have sort of moved to rectify things like that in education a little bit, but without fully reckoning with the extent of the inequity to begin with.

Similarly we talk now, we know that we have a problem of mass incarceration.

We know that that is a combination of design and accident.

But I think it's important to remember that the forms of imprisonment and policing that were designed in the South after Emancipation were largely designed to be about controlling black labor.

And the language of black criminality that emerged in the South and elsewhere that was crafted, again by kind of white media, and white legislators was also kind of a byproduct of an attempt to make sure that African Americans stayed in their place.

We still traffic in the language of black criminality too often without thinking about its origin and the ideological and practical work that it's done.

We are still building on a system of incarceration that did not begin with rehabilitation or safety in mind so much as it did labor control.

And then finally, I'd say about housing that we... so I live in Durham, I love Durham.

I am excited in many ways for the ways that Durham is growing and developing.

It's also the case that Durham, as many places in the South, have a long history of cordoning off places where people of color could live and might live through restrictive covenants, through where folks could get loans, where we talk about redlining or things like that.

Also a newer history, but an ugly history of selling people houses that weren't going to build as much value.

So also shoving black homeowners into sort of questionable buys through loan practices and things like that.

We haven't quite talked and reckoned with, we haven't undone that history even as we now see these processes of gentrification when those same home owners who had tenuous holds through loaning practices on the houses that they've bought have been pushed out by real estate developers, either individuals or big companies who are figuring out who have the material resources to flip those houses and build their own well in these places that used to be kind of bedrocks of other folks' communities.

- Thank you so much for laying all that out.

It was so important just to hear that explanation because as we look around, John, indeed there is progress, there's development, and while many communities of color are focused on and need to focus on just getting the rights and access that we deserve, development continues.

The world continues to change, and we're talking about these systems that continue to be in place.

Is there anything that the MDC is doing to target specific systems and unravel them in order to create those possibilities that you talked about?

- Absolutely.

There's first, the example that I gave in in Greensboro.

That network will launch within the next month or so.

And, the hope is to pull 3000 families out of poverty.

If you think of an employer coming into a community saying we can provide 3000 jobs, that would be a monumental impact on that community.

And we hope to see the same kind of impact in Greensboro through this work, and then to take that model to other communities.

In addition, we think about where are the other levers that impact all of these conditions that Adrian laid out so well?

And one of those levers is philanthropy.

Philanthropy is a supplement, a complement to government but not a replacement for government.

And at the moment, I think too much is being asked of philanthropy and it's not clear that philanthropy is ready to meet those challenges in any case.

So we created something that we call the Passing Gear Philanthropy Institute.

And that's really an opportunity to engage with foundations across the country to help them think about how to infuse equity into their grant making practices, how they think about evaluating projects that they're engaged in, and what time means to them.

Not on a quarterly basis, but a longer time horizon for those investments.

The Passing Gear Philanthropy Institute will be repurposed as the Equity Centered Philanthropy Institute as we think about how do we place equity at the center of these practices as a way of shifting the systems that Adrian described.

So those are two of the ways in which we look to engage directly in these large, often intractable problems that have been playing us for decades.

- And the work that you're doing has got to be so important because even people who are in foundations who are supporting the work of non-profits that are trying to target some of these communities that are in despair, some of the individuals working in those foundations don't get it.

They don't have, they might have a skewed view about how resources need to be allocated.

So the work of kind of collaborating with them and educating folks at foundations and in philanthropy is very valuable.

And Adriane, I wanna bring you in on this question.

We only have about a minute and a half, I think.

But do you think that democracy in our nation is in fragile condition compared to where we were say, 50 years ago?

I mean we look around and we see that things are so desperate or we feel like they're desperate, but how does it compare, do you think?

- I do think that democracy is in fragile condition compared to 50 years ago.

I mean, think about it, 50 years ago, the Civil Rights Act and the Voting Rights Act were new and people were committed to bringing them to the ground so that they did their work, broadly speaking.

We've come to a moment or an era five plus decades later, where some folks decided that the Voting Rights Act didn't apply anymore in this very region where the disfranchisement of people of color and large swaths actually of white people who got caught up in the net, where that was the sort of foundation, disfranchisement was the foundation for all of the other inequities that we've talked about, which means that with the Voting Right Act divested of its power there is the possibility that such structures can get put back into place without people having the capacity to push back and stop them from happening.

So I worry about the anti-democratic trend that I see is kind of happening broadly.

- I'd love your thoughts on this too, John.

- As a constitutional scholar and a student of constitutional design, I think we're at a perilous point.

We have seen this before.

I call it the second redemption.

It's a version of what we saw in South Carolina and other states across the south after reconstruction when there was literally an overthrow of democratically elected governments.

And we've already seen attempts at the national level.

- Well, we know that the upcoming convenings kickoff in Durham on October the 27th.

And I hope that people will engage because it promises a great conversation and a great education.

John Simpkins, Dr. Adrian Lentz-Smith, thank you for your leadership and your scholarship.

- Thank you.

- Thank you.

- Artistic expression plays a strong role in moves towards social and economic equity and justice.

Maybe that's why the kickoff event for the true South State of the South tour in Durham is an evening performance and dialogue at Hayti Heritage Center.

Joining us now are two of the evening performers, choreographer and dance artist Alexandra Joye Warren, founder and artistic director at Joye Movement, grounded in history exploring the future.

She's also an assistant professor of performing arts at Elon University, and director choreographer for their music theater program.

And also we have Marcus Kiser, an artist and graphic designer.

So excited to have the two of you joining us as well.

I'm sure it's gonna be an outstanding performance.

Very exciting.

And Alexandra and Marc, starting with you first, Alexandra, tell us a little bit about your studio, your art, and how your work as an artist intersects with social justice work and equity.

- Well, thank you so much for having me.

I'm so honored to be here.

My company started in 2014 and we really explore the stories of folks from the African diaspora.

And inherently those stories often intersect with social justice.

Some of my dance works explore things like the consequences of the North Carolina Eugenics program, what does American patriotism look like for descendants of enslaved people, and just other topics that are relevant to me and my experience.

So oftentimes those things are somehow connected.

And so I'm really excited that I'm able to process and explore things through art that help me to understand things that are complicated and express myself and express emotions that are really complex through art.

- It's great to have that art form to be able to get some of that energy out, because there's a lot going on in our world and people are needing to de-stress.

But as an artist, I would imagine you're able to just kind of take that and really embrace it.

And that comes out in your dance and in your work.

- Yes.

Yes.

- So Marc, can you talk about your work as well, your art in your studio?

- Yeah, first off, thank you for having me on the platform this morning.

I'm a multimedia designer and illustrator, graphic designer.

And the way we spoke about how these systems are designed, I like to consider my work as I'm a visual storyteller that likes to connect community.

I have a history in design, but I like to use art to engage and connect and how do we tell the history of a lot of spaces of color, particularly black spaces.

And then how do we apply the marketing, from a standpoint of graphic design and marketing.

You know, we're always creating things to sell, to sell lifestyles, to sell images, but like how do we sell systematic change through visual languages?

And that's pretty much the cornerstone of my work.

So I take my design thinking and I use it to, help and build better futures or whatnot.

- Wow, you know, I think about the art that I see around me and Alexandra, where do you see the influence of art giving that voice that Marcus talked about to black communities in the south?

- Art allows us to, it gives us the space to process our present circumstances.

And it also allows me to be able to imagine a new future.

A future is not only where we exist, but we also thrive in.

And so I think that space and creating that, it's not only just for me and for my other artists that work with me, but it's also for everyone that experiences the art.

I'm often inspired by other forms like novels, films, visual art, so on and so forth.

And so those things really bring me into new spaces and give me imagination.

So my hope is that my work can do the same.

And I think that sometimes art pushes things forward faster than policy, or law, [chuckles] unfortunately.

- Wow, that's a really provocative proposition.

I'd love for you to think about any art forms that you think have pushed policy.

And while you think about that, Marcus, we have a poster that you worked on.

Sometimes you're able to partner with an organization and get a message out.

Can you talk a little bit about the economic development campaign that you worked on for the city of Charlotte government?

- Yeah, so actually I was working with Solid.

Solid is a PR agency here in Charlotte.

Shout out to Tracy Russ.

I'm great friends with him.

So he approached me and, you know, they were applying for, they were trying to lock down a new economic growth campaign for Charlotte.

And they had this idea of how do we reimagine Queen Charlotte?

And as Alexandra spoke, like, you know, talking about the future and reimagining these things but also understanding the history and the past of where these things come from.

I sort of took a wild stab at Queen Charlotte.

I made her a black woman.

We gave her a motorcycle.

It was really, you know, to me, that stuff's not radical, but I guess in corporate spaces that stuff seems kind of radical or whatnot.

But yeah, it was a cool campaign and I've redesigned it.

Actually, they didn't, the campaign didn't get used, so I want to say that too.

- Wow.

- But despite it not being used, you know, that's still one of my favorite projects.

And it's just this idea of like, how do we reimagine?

Like, I love the idea of reimagining and then turning that thing into a vintage movie poster style design.

That was one of my favorite projects.

- Yeah, it's pretty powerful.

Her on that motorcycle with that crown.

Very imaginative.

- Natural hair, too.

You know, I had to give her the natural hair, and just, you know, I loved it.

- Oh yeah.

It's a great poster.

Wish they had used it.

Alexandra, you know, sometimes, I know I'd asked you about other forms of art that we've seen that maybe pushed policy.

I think about the Black Lives Matter paintings and murals, the big one.

And I wonder, you know, where did we get with that though?

Sometimes people get satisfied by bringing in the art, the murals, and the street paintings, but then where's the policy effect?

- Yeah, I mean, I definitely agree that it is not enough, right?

It's a beginning, it's a conversation.

It depends on, you know, what the circumstances are.

But I know for me, when I'm creating things, I just, my hope is always to rearrange context.

And so when I'm making work, my hope is that audience members will be able to see things from a different perspective.

And one example is seeing how an audience member will come up to me and say, "Wow, you know, I really never thought about something that way.

And you really changed my perspective on how interactions with the police and black men might be."

And that really, you know, that one to one, I don't know what that person will take that information and where they will apply that.

But as long as I'm becoming healed, I think I'm important in terms of the process and as well as the artists with me.

You know, that one to one sometimes is a huge impact.

- And what do you think of the impact of the art, Marcus?

- I think art has a huge impact.

You know, there are many ways that we can, as artists, you know, some of us use art as a way to express ourselves.

It can help with mental health.

But I think people seeing visual things can really affect community.

And it's how you tie those things together.

And for me, I just wanna make a better world, visually.

- Marcus Kiser, Alexandra Joye Warren, thank you so much for your talents and your continued work for equity.

And we wanna thank you for joining us and invite you to engage with us on Twitter or Instagram using the hashtag Black Issues Forum.

You can also find our full episodes on pbsnc.org/blackissuesforum, or listen at any time on Apple iTunes, Spotify, or Google Podcasts.

For Black Issues Forum, I'm Deborah Holt Noel.

We'll see you next time.

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