>> ERIC: THIS WEEK, THE "MINNESOTA REFORMER" REVEALED "STAR TRIBUNE" CEO AND PUBLISHER STEVE GROVE KEPT IN CONTACT WITH THE WALZ ADMINISTRATION AFTER STARTING HIS ROLE LEADING THE PAPER.

THE FORMER D.E.E.D.

COMMISSIONER CONTINUED TO TEXT WALZ'S OFFICE FOR MONTHS AFTER LEAVING.

THIS HAS RAISED ETHICAL CONCERNS ABOUT THE RELATIONSHIP BETWEEN THE GOVERNOR'S OFFICE AND THE STATE'S LARGEST NEWSPAPER.

HERE WITH US NOW, MEDIA LAW AND ETHICS PROFESSOR AND DIRECTOR OF SILHA CENTER FOR THE STUDY OF MEDIA ETHICS AND LAW AT THE U OF M, JANE KIRTLEY.

WELL, PROFESSOR, DOES THIS ON THE FACE OF IT LOOK LIKE A VIOLATION OF SOME CONFLICT OF I WANT CODE?

>> I THINK IT'S A CONFLICT OF INTEREST.

YOU KNOW, IF YOU'RE THE PUBLISHER OF THE LARGEST NEWSPAPER IN THE STATE, YOU HAVE PLENTY OF PLATFORMS TO HAVE YOUR VIEWPOINT KNOWN.

IF YOU THINK THAT THERE IS A GREAT CANDIDATE OUT THERE TO BE YOUR SUCCESSOR ON THE D.E.E.D.

COMMISSION, YOU CAN WRITE AND OP ED, WRITE AN EDITORIAL, HAVE IT IN THE "STAR TRIBUNE" AND LET LEADERS DECIDE HOW THEY WANT TO DEAL WITH THAT, IF THEY WANT TO THINK THAT THAT REPRESENTS A CONFLICT OF I WANT FOR THE NEWSPAPER OR NOT.

BUILT TO DO THIS TEXTING KIND OF BEHIND THE SCENES, COVERTLY, I THINK IT'S PROBLEMATIC, AND I ALSO THINK IT PUTS THE REPORTERS IN A REALLY AWKWARD POSITION.

>> Eric: DIFFERENT RULES, THOUGH, FOR AN OWNER OR PUBLISHER OR -- >> WELL, YOU KNOW, THAT HAS BEEN THE CONVENTIONAL WISDOM.

I MEAN, MAYBE WE HAVE CITIZEN GROVE AS THE PUBLISHER OF THE "STAR TRIBUNE" WHO WANTS TO BE A KING-MAKER AND THAT'S A LONG TRADITION IN JOURNALISM BUT I THINK THE REALITY IS THAT YOUR PUBLISHER WHO'S THE HEAD OF THE PAPER SETS THE TONE FOR THE WHOLE NEWS ORGANIZATION AND IT'S PROBLEMATIC FOR THE REPORTERS, I THINK, WHO GO TO COVER GOVERNMENT SUPPOSEDLY WITH NO AGENDA OTHER THAN SERVING THE PUBLIC INTEREST, TO NOT KNOW THAT THEIR PUBLISHER ACTUALLY IS TRYING TO INFLUENCE WHAT'S GOING ON.

>> Mary: NOW, THE DEFENSE WE'VE HEARD IS THESE ARE FRIENDS FOR 20 YEARS AND TEXT MESSAGES, I WOULD SAY AS A REPORTER, ARE MORE CASUAL KIND OF OFF THE RECORD MEANS OF COMMUNICATION.

VERSUS FORMAL EMAILS, SO I THINK -- ISN'T THERE A COUPLE OF LAYERS HERE HAT MAKE THIS INTERESTING?

>> ONE OF THE THINGS I WOULD SAY IS THAT THE MINNESOTA GOVERNMENT DATA PRACTICES ACT, OUR OPEN MEETINGS LAW IS ACTUALLY QUITE PROTECTIVE OF LOTS OF PERSONAL COMMUNICATIONS BUT THE WAY THE MINNESOTA REPORT REFORMER GOT THIS BY TEXT WAS FILING FOR AN OPEN RECORDS REQUEST.

SO THEIR SUBJECT TO DISCLOSURE BY THE PUBLIC ND HONESTLY THINK STEVE GROVE SHOULD HAVE BEEN AWARE OF THAT.

>> Eric: ARE YOU THE JOURNALIST YOU'RE THE PUBLISHER?

>> I THINK YOU WOULD HAVE O ASK STEVE GROVE WHO HE THINKS OF HIMSELF IN THIS ROLE AS.

PEOPLE THAT ARE PUBLISHERS CAN CERTAINLY WRITE OP ED AND OTHER PIECES.

ARE THEY CONVENTIONAL REPORTERS IN THE WAY OF GOING OUT FOR NEWS, I THINK NOT BUT THEY'RE SETTING THE TONE.

>> WOULD A REPORTER HAVE BEEN TREATED DIFFERENTLY IN THIS BY MANAGE.

AT THE "STAR TRIBUNE"?

>> I CAN'T SAY WHAT THEIR RULES OF ETHICS ARE BUT I THINK MOST NEWS ORGANIZATIONS I KNOW, THEY WOULD SAY, THIS IS PROBLEMATIC, WE DON'T CARE HOW LONG YOU'VE BEEN FRIENDS WITH THIS PERSON.

IF YOU'RE REALLY THAT CLOSE O THEM AND WANT TO CONTINUES YOUR COMMUNICATIONS, MAYBE YOU NEED A DIFFERENT BEAT AT THIS NEWSPAPER.

>> Mary: WHAT ABOUT MEDIA TRUST IS AT AB ALL-TIME LOW OR AT LEAST IN MY CAREER HERE.

DOES THIS JUST FIT INTO WHAT PEOPLE MIGHT BELIEVABLE TO BE TRUE ANYWAY?

>> IN YOU LOOKED AT THE "STAR TRIBUNE" STORY ON THIS AND SAW THE RODER COMMENTS, IT WAS QUITE PREDICTABLE THAT MANY PEOPLE SAID THERE IS WHAT I ALWAYS KNEW, THAT THE "STAR TRIBUNE" IS JUST AN ARM OF THE DFL.

I DON'T THINK WE NEED TO BE DOING THINGS THAT REINFORCE THAT NARRATIVE ALSO OF COURSE IT HAPPENS TO BE TRUE BUT I THINK THE "STAR TRIBUNE" WOULD SAY THAT THEY ARE AN INDEPENDENT NEWS ORGANIZATION.

>> Eric: DOES A BETTER FIREWALL HIM -- JUST HELP R ARE YOU JUST COUNTING ON THE GOOD THOUGHTFULNESS OF FOLKS THAT ARE INVOLVED IN THE PUBLISHING AND REPORTING OF THE PAPER?

>> I THINK THIS IS A REALLY GOOD CAUTIONARY TALE BOUT HOW YOU'RE REALLY NEVER OFF DUTY IF YOU'RE A JOURNALIST AND THAT INCLUDES THE PUBLISHERS, TOO.

>> Mary: IS IT A GOOD IS SIGN THAT THE "STAR TRIBUNE" REPORTED ABOUT THIS?

>> I THOUGHT IT WAS TERRIFIC WHEN THE REPORTER THAT WAS ASSIGNED TO THIS, I ASKED HER, DID YOU DRAW THE SHORT STRAW BUT I THINK IT'S IMPORTANT IS THAT THE "STAR TRIBUNE" MEANT IT HEALED-ON AFTER THE MINNESOTA REFORMER MADE THE PUBLICATION AND SAID LET'S LOOK AT THIS AND SEE.

>> Eric: WHEN BEN BRADLEY PUBLISHER OF THE PROBLEMS ADVISES JFK BACK IN THE '60s, THAT WAS A DIFFERENT TIME OR IMPROPER?

>> I THINK THAT WAS A DIFFERENT TIME AND CERTAINLY WE KNOW BECAUSE OF REVELATION ATTENTION OF, YOU KNOW, MANY, MANY YEARS, THAT THIS KIND OF INTERACTION WITH PUBLISHERS WAS NOT UNCOMMON.

WASHINGTON OF COURSE IS A STRANGE PLACE WHERE SOURCES AND JOURNALISTS PLAY TENSION WITH EACH OTHER AND THEY OFTEN LOOK AT THESE THINGS IN A DIFFERENT WAY BUT I THINK WHAT THIS REMINDS US IS THAT YOU CAN NEVER BE TOO CAREFUL ABOUT MAINTAINING THAT ALL BECAUSE, AGAIN, YOUR GOAL OUGHT TO BE TO ADVANTAGES THE PUBLIC INTEREST, NOT YOUR OWN PERSONAL INTEREST.

>> Eric: REALLY