[ THEME MUSIC ] WELCOME TO THIS WEEK'S EDITION OF "NEW YORK NOW."

I'M DAN CLARK.

I'M RUNNING OUT OF WAYS TO TELL YOU THIS NEWS, SO I'M JUST GONNA GIVE IT TO YOU STRAIGHT.

AS OF FRIDAY MORNING, NEW YORK STILL DOESN'T HAVE A STATE BUDGET.

THREE WEEKS AFTER THE DEADLINE.

BUT THINGS SEEMED CLOSER AT LEAST THAN THEY HAD BEEN IN THE PAST FEW WEEKS.

AT THE START OF WEEK, THERE WERE RUMORS ABOUT A DEAL ON CHANGES TO BAIL REFORM, BUT JUST A DAY LATER, WE WERE TOLD THOSE RUMORS WERE FALSE AND BY WEDNESDAY, THE DOOR TO A FULL STATE BUDGET DEAL BEFORE NEXT WEEK WAS CLOSED.

SENATE MAJORITY LEADER, ANDREA STEWART-COUSINS.

YOU KNOW, I HOPE THAT WE ARE ABLE TO JUST, YOU KNOW, GET TO A POINT WHERE WE CAN-- I CAN COME IN AND TELL YOU THAT IT IS THE END OF THE END VERY, VERY SOON.

THIS WEEK?

UNFORTUNATELY, IT'S NOT THIS WEEK.

LAWMAKERS ENDED UP PASSING AN EXTENDER THROUGH MONDAY.

BUT THE MAJORITY LEADER DID HAVE A FEW UPDATES FOR US.

SHE SAID THEY WERE VERY CLOSE TO A DEAL ON BAIL.

AND ANY HOUSING PLAN WOULD HAVE TO INCLUDE NEW PROTECTIONS FOR TENANTS, WHICH GOVERNOR HOCHUL HAS BEEN RESISTANT TO.

STEWART-COUSINS AGAIN.

THIS IS A NATIONAL PROBLEM, QUITE HONESTLY, BUT I DON'T THINK WE CAN JUST TALK ABOUT BUILDING WITHOUT TALKING ABOUT AFFORDABILITY.

I WANT, YOU KNOW, YOU ALL, I WANT MY NEIGHBORS, MY CHILDREN TO BE ABLE TO AFFORD TO LIVE, YOU KNOW, HERE.

AND I THINK WE HAVE TO FIGURE OUT A WAY TO DO THAT.

MORE ON THE BUDGET IN JUST A FEW MINUTES.

BUT FIRST, SOME NEWS ON NEW YORK'S TOP COURT.

ROWAN WILSON WAS CONFIRMED THIS WEEK BY THE STATE SENATE TO BE NEW YORK'S NEW CHIEF JUDGE.

HE'S THE FIRST PERSON OF COLOR EVER TO SERVE IN THAT ROLE AND AS WE TOLD YOU, THAT JOB HAS TWO PARTS.

FOR ONE, THE CHIEF JUDGE MANAGES THE ENTIRE JUDICIAL BRANCH OF STATE GOVERNMENT.

THAT'S ALL THE WAY FROM YOUR LOCAL TOWN AND VILLAGE COURTS UP TO THE STATE'S HIGHEST COURT, THE COURT OF APPEALS, AND THAT IS THE OTHER JOB OF THE CHIEF JUDGE.

THEY LEAD AND MANAGE THE COURT OF APPEALS.

THAT HAS TO DO WITH THINGS LIKE WHAT KINDS OF CASES THE COURT HEARS AND HOW MANY ARE HEARD AT ANY GIVEN TIME.

IN THE PAST SEVEN OR SO YEARS, THE COURT HAS HEARD FAR FEWER CASES THAN THEY USED TO.

THAT WAS THE PURVIEW OF FORMER CHIEF JUDGE JANET DIFIORE.

BUT AT HIS CONFIRMATION HEARING, WILSON SAID UNDER HIM THAT WOULD CHANGE.

THE COURT'S ROLE AND LEGITIMACY IS PARTICULARLY IMPORTANT NOW IN THE FACE OF THE U.S. SUPREME COURT'S RETREAT FROM SEVERAL OF ITS POSITIONS.

IN THAT ENVIRONMENT, THE ACTIONS OF STATE GOVERNMENTS, WHETHER LEGISLATIVE, EXECUTIVE, OR JUDICIAL TAKE ON GREATER IMPORT.

OUR COURT IS NOW PRESENTED FOR AN OPPORTUNITY TO RE-ESTABLISH ITSELF AS THE CLEAR LEADER AMONG ITS PEERS.

AND JUST A LITTLE BACKGROUND ON WILSON.

HE'S A HARVARD GRAD WHO PRACTICED LAW FOR 30 YEARS AT ONE OF NEW YORK'S BIGGEST LAW FIRMS.

THAT WAS UNTIL SIX YEARS AGO WHEN HE WAS FIRST NOMINATED AND CONFIRMED TO THE COURT OF APPEALS.

HE'S CONSIDERED TO BE A RELATIVELY LIBERAL JUDGE WHO OFTEN SIDES WITH CRIMINAL DEFENDANTS OVER PROSECUTORS AND WRITES DECISIONS IN A WAY THAT THE PUBLIC CAN EASILY UNDERSTAND.

IT'S THAT EXPERIENCE AND STYLE THAT DEMOCRATS LIKED.

SENATE DEPUTY MAJORITY LEADER MIKE GIANARIS.

BECAUSE IF YOU READ HIS DECISIONS, YOU SEE AN UNDERSTANDING NOT JUST OF THE CASE BEFORE HIM, BUT OF WHAT IT MEANS IN THE CONTEXT OF THE BROADER COMMUNITY, AND THAT IS WHAT THE COURT OF APPEALS HAS HISTORICALLY BEEN IN NEW YORK, A PLACE WHERE OTHER STATES AND INDEED, THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT AND THE FEDERAL JUDICIARY CAN LOOK FOR GUIDANCE, FOR DIRECTION.

BUT SUPPORT FOR WILSON WAS SPLIT ALONG PARTY LINES.

REPUBLICANS TOOK ISSUE WITH THE DECISION HE WROTE IN MARCH THAT OVERTURNED A RAPE CONVICTION.

THEY SAID THAT RULING AND HIS FAVOR TOWARD DEFENDANTS SHOULD QUALIFY HIM, QUOTE, AS AN ACTIVIST JUDGE.

SENATE MINORITY LEADER ROB ORTT.

JUDGE WILSON, WE HAVE TO PRESUME OR I PRESUME IS A TIP OF THE CAP TO THE RADICAL LEFT, PEOPLE LIKE SENATOR HOYLMAN, PEOPLE LIKE SENATOR GIANARIS, AN ACTIVIST JUDGE THAT I THINK FITS THEIR IDEAL OF NOT ONLY A GOOD CHIEF JUDGE BUT AN IDEAL FOR THE COURT AS A WHOLE.

I WANT TO ALLOW THE WHOLE CONTEXT OF THAT CASE JUST SO YOU KNOW WHAT HAPPENED.

IT STARTED IN 2009 WHEN A WOMAN IN ST. LAWRENCE COUNTY WAS RAPED.

SHE REPORTED THE RAPE THAT SAME DAY, BUT IT WASN'T UNTIL ALMOST FOUR YEARS LATER THAT PROSECUTORS IN ST. LAWRENCE COUNTY COLLECTED THE DNA OF THE MAN WHO RAPED HER AND FINALLY CHARGE HIM WITH A AND IT WAS THAT DELAY THAT CAUSED THE CONVICTION TO BE THROWN OUT ON GROUNDS OF DUE PROCESS.

JUDGE WILSON DEFENDED THAT DECISION AT HIS CONFIRMATION HEARING.

IT'S NOT AS IF THE PROSECUTOR'S OFFICE CAME AND SAID, LISTEN, WE HAD SOME OTHER THINGS THAT MADE US BUSY.

WE HAD TWO PEOPLE WHO WERE OUT ON MATERNITY LEAVE.

THEY CAME AND SAID, WE HAVE NO EXPLANATION FOR THIS LENGTHY DELAY.

SO IN THAT CIRCUMSTANCE THINK THEN ABOUT WHAT THE ALTERNATIVE IS.

IT'S EITHER TO SAY THAT'S OKAY, WHAT MESSAGE DOES THAT THEN SEND TO VICTIMS OF RAPE OR VICTIMS OF CRIME ANYWHERE?

THAT WAS JUST ROUND ONE OF THIS WEEK'S JUDICIAL CONFIRMATIONS BECAUSE WILSON WAS CHOSEN FOR CHIEF JUDGE, HIS OLD SEAT ON THE COURT WAS LEFT OPEN AND THE SENATE CONFIRMED CAITLIN HALLIGAN THIS WEEK TO FILL THAT SPOT.

SHE'S THE STATE'S FORMER SOLICITOR GENERAL WHO HAS HAD A HUGE CAREER IN THE PRIVATE SECTOR AND WAS ONCE UP FOR A FEDERAL JUDGESHIP AND EVEN A HANDFUL OF REPUBLICANS CROSSED PARTY LINES TO SUPPORT HER.

I AM VERY GRATEFUL AND HONORED.

THANK YOU.

BUT DEMOCRATS AND GOVERNOR HOCHUL COULD BE FACING SOME LEGAL TROUBLE OVER HALLIGAN'S NOMINATION.

LET'S START THERE WITH THIS WEEK'S PANEL.

JOE SPECTOR IS FROM POLITICO, AND MIKE GORMLEY IS FROM NEWSDAY.

THANK YOU BOTH SO MUCH.

SO MIKE, ON THIS POTENTIAL LAWSUIT FROM THE GOP AS OF FRIDAY MORNING AS WE'RE TALKING, IT HAS NOT BEEN FILED YET.

WE DID HEAR SOME COMMENTS FROM SENATE MINORITY LEADER ROB ORTT AND SENATE JUDICIARY RANKER ANTHONY PALUMBO ON THE POTENTIAL FOR A LAWSUIT.

WHERE ARE WE HEADED HERE?

WHAT DO YOU THINK?

WELL, IT IS HARD TO TELL BECAUSE THERE'S A LOT OF LAWSUITS THREATENED IN ALBANY THAT DON'T HAPPEN.

BUT WITH THE REPUBLICANS' CONCERN IS THAT GOVERNOR HOCHUL AND THE DEMOCRATIC SENATE REALLY DIDN'T AN UNCONSTITUTIONAL MOVEMENT.

THEY HAD TWO CANDIDATES.

THEY ELEVATED ONE CANDIDATE TO CHIEF-- CHIEF OF THE COURT AND CAITLIN HALLIGAN, WHO IS AN ASSOCIATE, TO THAT POSITION.

THAT MIGHT BE UNCONSTITUTIONAL BECAUSE THEY USED THE SAME LIST OF CANDIDATES.

RIGHT.

THEY PASSED A LAW TO MAKE THIS POSSIBLE.

RIGHT.

I MEAN, WE'RE NOT LEGAL SCHOLARS SO WE DON'T KNOW FOR SURE.

SURE.

BUT THE OTHER SIDE OF THIS IS THAT THE REPUBLICANS MAY NOT PURSUE THIS.

EVEN THOUGH THEY MIGHT HAVE A GOOD CASE BECAUSE MAYBE THEY'D GET A WORSE CANDIDATE.

SO IN NEW YORK STATE, THERE'S VERY FEW THINGS THAT ARE MORE POLITICAL THAN PICKING JUDGES.

BOTH PARTIES DO THIS.

SO ONE SIDE CLAIMING THE OTHER AS BEING POLITICAL IS JUST THE WAY IT GOES.

YOU KNOW, IT'S POLITICAL, PICKING JUDGES FROM THE TOWN AND VILLAGE LEVEL ON UP SO WE'LL HAVE TO SEE WHAT THEY DO, BUT THEIR CALCULUS IS GOING TO BE WHETHER THEY THINK THEY COULD WIN.

MAYBE THEY COULD, AND WHETHER THEY WANT TO WIN.

AND I WONDER WHAT HAPPENS IF THEY DO WIN.

I WOULD HAVE NO IDEA.

I GUESS IT WOULD BE UP TO THE JUDGE.

WOULD IT BE THAT IF THEY DO WIN THAT LAWSUIT THAT CAITLIN HALLIGAN IS PULLED OFF THE COURT OF APPEALS AND THEY HAVE TO RESTART THAT PROCESS?

WE JUST DON'T KNOW YET.

AS YOU KNOW, THIS IS YOUR BACKGROUND, THERE COULD BE A STAY WHERE EVERYTHING WOULD CONTINUE IN THE STATUS QUO UNTIL THERE WAS ANOTHER LIST OF POTENTIAL CANDIDATES AND A CHOICE MADE, WHICH ASSUME THE GOVERNOR WOULD MAKE THE SAME CHOICE.

SO THAT'S THE OTHER THING, IS IT MOOT?

THAT'S WHAT THE REPUBLICANS HAVE TO CONSIDER.

SO LITTLE UP IN THE AIR ON THAT RIGHT NOW.

SO I DON'T WANT TO GET ANY MORE INTO THAT BECAUSE WE HAVE TO SEE WHAT HAPPENS.

THERE IS PLENTY TO TALK ABOUT WITH THE BUDGET.

JOE, ON THURSDAY EVENING POLITICO AND A COUPLE OUTLETS REPORTED THAT HOUSING IS JUST BEING TAKEN OUT OF THE BUDGET ALTOGETHER.

WE'RE TALKING ABOUT THE GOVERNOR'S HOUSING COMPACT, TENANT PROTECTION, GOOD CAUSE EVICTION THAT TYPE OF STUFF.

WHAT'S GOING ON THERE?

THEY JUST COULDN'T GET TO A PLACE WHERE IT MADE SENSE, I GUESS.

YEAH.

YOU KNOW, HERE WE ARE THREE WEEKS, APPROACHING A MONTH FOR A LATE BUDGET AND THERE WERE TWO BIG PRIORITIES FOR THE GOVERNOR, BAIL, MORE CHANGES TO THE BAIL LAW, AND THEN THE HOUSING PIECE.

SHE WANTED TO HAVE 800,000 NEW HOMES BUILT OVER A DECADE AND THE REAL CONTROVERSY IN THIS WAS TO MANDATE THE SUBURBS, OUTER BURROWS, UPSTATE, THE WHOLE STATE TO ADD NEW HOUSING EVERY SINGLE YEAR, MANDATED.

AND IF THEY DIDN'T DO IT, THE STATE WOULD HAVE THE ABILITY TO OVERRIDE LOCAL ZONING LAWS AND REALLY THAT IS LIKE ONE OF THE THIRD RAILS OF POLITICS, RIGHT, IS TO TRY TO OVERRIDE LOCAL GOVERNMENT CONTROL, AND YOU SAW IT, RIGHT FROM THE ONSET.

LAWMAKERS, SUBURBAN LAWMAKERS, AND IT WASN'T JUST SUBURBAN LAWMAKERS.

I THINK IT BECAME SUBURBS VERSUS CITY TYPE FIGHTS, BUT IF YOU TALK TO OUTER BURROW LAWMAKERS, BROOKLYN, QUEENS, THERE WAS A LOT OF OPPOSITION AMONG DEMOCRATS THERE, TOO, BECAUSE OBVIOUSLY THERE WAS A LOT OF RESIDENTIAL HOUSING THERE.

LONG AND SHORT OF IT IS HOCHUL PUSHED THIS PROPOSAL.

IT WAS MET WITH RESISTANCE RIGHT FROM THE BEGINNING.

SHE WOULDN'T MOVE OFF THE MANDATE PIECE, IT SEEMED, AND LAWMAKERS DID PUT FORTH THE DEMOCRAT-- THE DEMOCRATS IN ONE HOUSE BUDGET DID PUT FORTH A PROPOSAL WITH AN OPT-IN WITH INCENTIVES TO TRY TO BUILD NEW HOUSING AND THAT WASN'T ENOUGH AND SO LIKE YOU SAID, A LOT OF THE OTHER STUFF WITH IT, TENANT RIGHTS, SORT OF A RENT CONTROL PIECE, GOOD CAUSE, ALL THAT SEEMS TO BE OFF THE TABLE NOW.

SO DOES THAT MEAN IT'S ALL DEAD, OR WOULD THEY LIKE TO ADDRESS THAT, I GUESS, FOR THE REST OF SESSION?

, YEAH.

WELL, SURE THERE'S A COUPLE THINGS, RIGHT?

ONE, THERE'S STILL TALK OF SOME HOUSING PIECES.

MAYOR ERIC ADAMS HAS A LOT THAT HE WANTS FOR THE CITY.

MAYBE THAT IS SOMETHING THAT GETS INCLUDED.

THERE'S TALK ABOUT HOUSING VOUCHERS THAT WOULD HELP PEOPLE WHO WERE STRUGGLING TO PAY THE RENT.

NYCHA, NYCHA HAS A BIG DEFICIT AND THERE MIGHT BE SOME MONEY FOR THAT.

THERE ARE STILL SOME MONEY PIECES IN THERE, BUT HOCHUL'S BIG HOUSING PROPOSAL, YEAH, THAT SEEMS SCRAPPED.

WHAT DO YOU THINK THIS SAYS ABOUT POLITICS AND DYNAMICS AT THE CAPITOL RIGHT NOW?

THIS IS ANOTHER SITUATION WHERE THE GOVERNOR HAS A MAJOR PRIORITY THAT SHE CANNOT GET THROUGH WITH THE LEGISLATURE.

IS THAT TROUBLE?

THERE'S A LITTLE POLITICAL BACKGROUND HERE.

AS YOU KNOW, STATE LEGISLATORS HAVE THE SYNERGY WITH LOCAL OFFICIALS.

THEY ALL HELP EACH OTHER GET RE-ELECTED.

THERE'S A REAL RESPONSIVENESS IN ALBANY TO LOCAL GOVERNMENT.

BUT IT'S IMPORTANT TO NOTE THAT INDEPENDENT STUDIES AND OTHER STATES HAVE ALL FOUND THAT HOCHUL'S POSITION IS THE RIGHT ONE.

IN FACT, THE ONLY ONE THAT MAKES IT WORK.

YOU'RE NOT DEALING WITH COMMUNITIES THAT ARE NOT APPROVING HOUSING BECAUSE THEY DON'T HAVE ENOUGH MONEY FOR INFRASTRUCTURE WHICH IS WHAT THE INCENTIVE IS FROM THE LEGISLATURE.

MANY OF THESE ARE DOING IT BECAUSE THEY DON'T WANT TO CHANGE THE CHARACTER OF THEIR NEIGHBORHOODS AND UNFORTUNATELY THAT SOMETIMES MEANS THE RACIAL CHARACTER, MAKEUP OF A NEIGHBORHOOD, AND THAT'S WHY OTHER STATES IN INDEPENDENT STUDIES HAVE SAID HOCHUL'S WAY OF GOING ABOUT THIS TO HAVE AN ULTIMATE STATE BOARD THAT COULD OVERRULE LOCAL ZONING DECISIONS IS ESSENTIAL.

YEAH.

ESPECIALLY WHEN WE TALK ABOUT, I THINK, LONG ISLAND AND THE SUBURBS.

IT'S VERY MUCH NIMALENDRANBY, NOT IN MY BACKYARD, NEIGHBORHOODS, PEOPLE, AND WE SEE THAT ON OTHER ISSUES, TOO.

PEOPLE ON LONG ISLAND-- WELL, SOME PEOPLE, I SHOULDN'T SAY ALL.

REALLY DON'T LIKE THE CONCEPT OF WIND TURBINES OFF THE COAST TO PRODUCE WIND ENERGY THAT WAY.

DO YOU SEE THAT AS THE PART WHERE IT BROKE DOWN, JUST THE LOCAL CONTROL, OR WAS THERE OTHER STUFF, YOU KNOW?

I AGREE WITH JOE.

THIS HAS ALWAYS BEEN A THIRD RAIL TYPE OF THING.

IT WAS A VERY AMBITIOUS THING FOR THE GOVERNOR TO TAKE ON.

YOU CAN LOOK AT IT TWO WAYS.

ONE, THAT IT WAS THE KIND OF BOLD VISION THAT YOU WANT TO SEE FROM LEADERS, AND THE OTHER VIEW MIGHT BE THAT IT WAS A MISTAKE, A POLITICAL MISTAKE.

SHOULD HAVE SEEN THIS WAS GOING TO END UP THIS WAY.

I THINK THAT SHE'S HAD SOME TROUBLE WITH PRE-SELLING THINGS TO PEOPLE.

YOU KNOW, SHE COMES OUT WITH A LOT OF SURPRISES FOR RANK AND FILE LAWMAKERS, I DON'T KNOW HOW MUCH LEGISLATIVE LEADERS KNOW, BUT SHE HAS THIS TREND OF HAVING BIG THINGS AND PUTTING IT OUT THERE TO SELL IT TO PEOPLE BEFORE SHE GETS SUPPORT.

I THINK ANDREW CUOMO DID AN EFFECTIVE JOB AT WAS REALLY ALIGNING THINGS BEFORE HE PUT A MAJOR POLICY INITIATIVE OR A CHIEF NOMINEE, THINGS LIKE THAT SO THAT WHEN IT DID BECOME PUBLIC, THERE WAS MORE LIKELIHOOD FOR IT TO GET FORWARD.

WE DON'T REALLY SEE THAT WITH KATHIE HOCHUL, I THINK.

THERE WASN'T LIKE THIS READY-MADE.

YOU DIDN'T HAVE THE UNIONS BEHIND IT FOR EXAMPLE.

YEAH.

YOU DIDN'T HAVE THE REAL ESTATE INTERESTS BEHIND THIS.

THERE WAS NO RALLIES AT THE CAPITOL IN SUPPORT OF THE PROPOSAL TO THE POINTS THAT MIKE MADE WHY A MANDATE IS A BETTER WAY TO GO THAN AN OPT-IN BECAUSE OPT-IN MIGHT NOT LEAD TO ANY RESULTS.

AT THE SAME TIME, YOU FELT LIKE THERE MIGHT HAVE BEEN A COMPROMISE IN SOME WAY.

MAYBE YOU DO AN OPT-IN WITH A LOT OF MONEY TO ENCOURAGE MUNICIPALITIES AND HAVE A COMMISSION LIKE LAWMAKERS SAID WHERE YOU COME BACK IN A COUPLE OF YEARS AND SEE IF IT WORKED.

IF NOT, THEN YOU COULD MAYBE FORCE IT UPON LOCAL GOVERNMENTS A LITTLE MORE.

BUT YOU KNOW, LIKE MIKE WAS SAYING AND LIKE YOU WERE SAYING, DAN, THEN IT ADDED UP.

THEN YOU STARTED ADDING OTHER PIECES INTO IT, RIGHT?

421-A, REVISITING THAT OR SOME TENANT PROTECTIONS AND YOU START ADDING ALL THESE OTHER PIECES INTO IT AND IT JUST, YOU KNOW, IT ALL KIND OF CRUMBLED.

NOW IS THERE ANYTHING ELSE THAT SEEMS TO BE A MAJOR IMPASSE?

I THINK WE SAW SOME RUMORS ABOUT A DEAL ON BAIL THIS WEEK AND ANDREA STEWART-COUSINS, THE MAJORITY LEADER, SAID THEY WERE VERY, VERY CLOSE.

I THINK THAT PROBABLY MEANS THAT THERE IS A 99% DEAL AND MAYBE THEY WERE WAITING FOR HOUSING TO COME TOGETHER TO MAKE IT A FULL PACKAGE OR SOMETHING LIKE THAT.

BUT WHAT DO YOU THINK THERE, JOE?

ARE WE DONE WITH BAIL FINALLY?

YEAH.

IT DOES SEEM LIKE THEY HAD BEEN FOR A COUPLE OF WEEKS.

SO THEY MOVED ON TO HOUSING.

THAT PROVED PROBLEMATIC AND NOW THEY MOVE TO THE OTHER PIECES, WHICH WILL TAKE SOME TIME.

SO MAYBE THERE'S A DEAL NEXT WEEK, BUT YOU KNOW, YOU HEAR A LOT OF MAKES AROUND THE CAPITOL RATHER THAN REALITY.

YOU KNOW, THERE'S OTHER PIECES, RIGHT, CHARTER SCHOOLS, WHETHER THEY'RE GOING TO MOVE FORWARD WITH ALLOWING MORE CHARTER SCHOOLS IN NEW YORK CITY, RAISING THE MINIMUM WAGE, DEMOCRATS WANT TO RAISE TAXES ON THE RICH.

THERE'S A $500 MILLION TAB THAT THE GOVERNOR HAS FOR THE MTA FOR THE CITY TO PAY.

WHO IS GOING TO PAY FOR THAT?

CLEARLY THE CITY DOESN'T WANT TO BE HIT WITH THAT BABY.

THERE ARE STILL A LOT OF ISSUES.

STILL THE HOUSING, BAIL, THOSE WERE NO QUESTION THE TWO BIG ONES.

AND WATCH FOR A LOT OF THESE TO DROP OFF THAT WOULD SETTLE.

THAT WILL MAKE THE BUDGET POSSIBLE.

A LOT OF THESE BIG IDEAS THAT THE GOVERNOR HAD GO INTO THE LEGISLATIVE SESSION WHERE THE GOVERNOR HAS LESS LEVERAGE TO PUSH HER STUFF.

THAT'S WHY A LOT OF THIS IS IN THE STATE BUDGET.

I WAS ALSO THINKING OF WHAT'S LEFT OF THE SESSION.

WE HAVE ABOUT A MINUTE LEFT, MIKE.

GIVE US A PREVIEW OF WHAT WE SHOULD EXPECT OVER, I DON'T KNOW, IT JUST DEPENDS ON WHEN THE BUDGET PASSES, FOR FIVE WEEKS FOR THE END OF SESSION.

ARE WE EXPECTING ANYTHING?

I THINK YOU ARE DEFINITELY GOING TO SEE SOME PROGRESSIVE VICTORIES COME OUT OF THIS.

WHETHER THAT GETS THROUGH THE GOVERNOR'S VETOES LATER ON IS YET TO BE SEEN.

BUT THIS LAST PART OF THE LEGISLATIVE SESSION IS GOING TO BE FILLED WITH TRYING TO GET SOME HEADLINES.

PERHAPS IT'S THE INCREASE IN MILLIONAIRE'S TAX IF THAT DOESN'T GET INTO THE BUDGET.

THERE'S A LOT OF OTHER PROGRESSIVE IDEAS THAT COULD GET THROUGH, BUT ALSO THERE'S A WHOLE BUNCH OF LOCAL LAWS THAT HAVE TO BE PASSED.

AGAIN, GETTING BACK TO WHAT WE TALKED ABOUT BEFORE, THE SYNERGY, THAT LOCAL GOVERNMENTS NEED THE STATE TO SIGN OFF ON.

IT IS A LOT TO CONSIDER.

THE HOUSING PART AFTER THE BUDGET, I'M JUST FASCINATED TO SEE IF PARTS OF IT CAN BE IN IT, LIKE THE INCENTIVES BECAUSE IF YOU'RE GOING TO PUT MONEY TOWARDS IT, YOU SHOULD DO IT IN THE BUDGET LAWMAKERS WOULD SAY.

WE'RE OUT OF TIME UNFORTUNATELY.

JOE SPECTOR FROM POLITICO, MIKE GORMLEY FROM NEWSDAY, THANK YOU BOTH.

THANKS, DAN.

ANOTHER REMINDER THAT WE TAPE ON FRIDAY MORNINGS.

SO IF THERE'S ANY MAJOR NEWS OVER THE WEEKEND, WE'LL HAVE DETAILS ON OUR WEBSITE.

AS ALWAYS, THAT'S AT NYNOW.ORG.

IN THE MEANTIME, WE'RE GOING TO CIRCLE BACK TO NEW YORK'S NEW CHIEF JUDGE, ROWAN WILSON.

AS WE TOLD YOU, HE FIRST JOINED THE STATE'S HIGHEST COURT IN 2017 WHEN HE WAS NOMINATED BY THEN-GOVERNOR ANDREW CUOMO.

IN THOSE SIX YEARS, A LOT HAS HAPPENED SO TO LEARN MORE ABOUT WILSON AND HOW HE MIGHT OPERATE AS CHIEF JUDGE, WE SPOKE THIS WEEK WITH VIN BONVENTRE, AN EXPERT ON THE COURT OF APPEALS FROM ALBANY LAW SCHOOL.

[ THEME MUSIC ] VIN, THANK YOU FOR COMING BACK.

WE ALWAYS APPRECIATE IT.

LOVE TO BE WITH YOU, DAN.

THANK YOU.

SO JUDGE ROWAN WILSON HAS BEEN CHARACTERIZED AS A LIBERAL JUDGE.

HE'S THE NEW CHIEF JUDGE, THE FIRST BLACK CHIEF JUDGE IN NEW YORK STATE.

WHEN WE TALK ABOUT A LIBERAL JUDGE, WHAT ARE WE TALKING ABOUT THERE VERSUS WHAT IS A LIBERAL JUDGE AND WHAT IS A CONSERVATIVE JUDGE?

AND DO YOU AGREE WITH THE CHARACTERIZATION THAT HE IS A LIBERAL JUDGE?

WELL, CERTAINLY, HE'S LIBERAL IN THE SENSE THAT, YOU KNOW, YOU HAVE THESE VERY CLOSE CASES THE CASES AT THE COURT OF APPEALS ARE CLOSE.

BUT IN THOSE ESPECIALLY CLOSE CASES WHERE THE ARGUMENTS ARE BOTH SIDES ARE JUST SO STRONG, YOU KNOW, HE WOULD TILT, YOU KNOW, IN FAVOR OF THE RIGHTS OF THE ACCUSED, DUE PROCESS, FAIR TRIAL AS OPPOSED TO TILTING IN FAVOR OF CRIME CONTROL, LAW AND ORDER THAT KIND OF THING.

THAT'S WHAT WE MEAN IN CRIMINAL CASES.

IN CIVIL CASES, FOR EXAMPLE, THE SAME THING.

THE VERY CLOSE CASES, WORKER RIGHTS VERSUS BUSINESS, HE WOULD TILT IN FAVOR OF WORKERS' RIGHTS.

IN CASES INVOLVING SOMEBODY WHO WAS INJURED, SUING SOMEONE ELSE WHO CAUSED THE INJURY, HE IS MUCH MORE IN FAVOR MOST OF THE TIME OF THE INDIVIDUAL WHO IS INJURED AND WOULD BE ENTITLED TO COMPENSATION.

THAT'S WHAT WE MEAN.

WE DON'T MEAN THAT HE'S SOME KIND OF RADICAL LEFTIST.

WE KNOW WE'VE BEEN HEARING THAT.

NO, THIS MAN IS NOT A RADICAL LEFTIST.

HE'S A TRADITIONAL LIBERAL.

YOU KNOW, REPUBLICANS HAVE TRIED TO LABEL HIM AS AN ACTIVIST JUDGE.

HE'S BEEN ON THE COURT OF APPEALS FOR ABOUT SIX YEARS.

BEFORE THAT, HE WAS NOT A JUDGE.

HE WAS AT A VERY LARGE LAW FIRM FOR A VERY LONG TIME DOING A LOT OF WORK THERE.

WHAT DO YOU THINK ABOUT THAT CHARACTERIZATION OF HIM AS YOU LOOKED AT HIM OVER THE LAST SIX YEARS ON THE BENCH?

COULD YOU CHARACTERIZE HIM AS AN ACTIVIST JUDGE?

USUALLY WHEN POLITICIANS USE THE TERM ACTIVIST AS OPPOSED TO SO-CALLED RESTRAINTIST, THEY USUALLY HAVE NO IDEA WHAT THEY'RE TALKING ABOUT.

I MEAN, JUST BE BLUNT.

THEY HAVE NO IDEA.

WHEN YOU TALK ABOUT AN ACTIVIST, WHAT YOU MEAN IS SOMEONE WHO, FOR EXAMPLE, DOESN'T GIVE THE PROPER RESPECT TO PRECEDENT, DOESN'T GIVE THE PROPER RESPECT TO THE OTHER BRANCHES OF GOVERNMENT.

SO FOR EXAMPLE, AN ACTIVIST WOULD BE, SAY, SOMEONE TWO-- WELL, LIKE THE UNITED STATES SUPREME COURT IN THE DOBBS DECISION, RIGHT, OVERRULING A 50-YEAR-OLD PRECEDENT.

THAT'S ACTIVISM.

THAT DOESN'T NECESSARILY MEAN THAT THE JUDGES' DECISION OR VOTING IS RIGHT OR WRONG.

IT JUST MEANS THAT THERE HASN'T BEEN THAT DEGREE OF RESPECT FOR PRECEDENT OR DEGREE OF DEFERENCE TO THE OTHER BRANCHES OF GOVERNMENT.

WHETHER SOMEBODY'S AN ACTIVIST OR SOMEBODY IS A RESTRAINTIST DOES NOT HAVE ANYTHING MUCH TO DO WITH WHETHER THEY'RE A GOOD JUDGE OR A BAD JUDGE.

HAVE WE SEEN ROWAN WILSON ACT IN THAT WAY YOU THAT JUST DESCRIBED, IN WAYS THAT COULD APPEAR TO USURP OR CHALLENGE OTHER BRANCHES OF GOVERNMENT?

I CAN'T-- YOU KNOW, I REALLY CAN'T THINK OF ANY DECISION LIKE THAT WHERE YOU WOULD SAY HE'S AN ACTIVIST, BUT YOU KNOW, TO THE EXTENT THAT, YOU KNOW, MORE CONSERVATIVE POLITICIANS AND COMMENTATORS ARE SAYING THAT HE'S AN ACTIVIST, WHAT THEY MEAN IS HE'S A LIBERAL.

I MEAN, THAT'S BASICALLY WHAT THEY MEAN.

DOES THAT INFORM AT ALL HOW WE COULD SEE HIM AS CHIEF JUDGE ON THE COURT OF APPEALS?

JUDGE TAKING BACK THE SIDE OF HEARING CASES AND MAKING DECISIONS, THERE'S MORE TO THE COURT OF APPEALS.

YOU AND I HAVE TALKED BEFORE ABOUT HOW UNDER THE PREVIOUS CHIEF JUDGE THE DOCKET FOR THE COURT OF APPEALS, THE NUMBER OF CASES THAT THEY HEAR HAD GONE DOWN PRETTY SIGNIFICANTLY.

DO WE SEE ANY INDICATIONS THAT IT'S GOING TO TURN BACK AROUND UNDER ROWAN WILSON?

I THINK HE SAID THAT AT THE HEARING, BUT I MAY NOT BE REMEMBERING CORRECTLY.

RIGHT.

NO, YOU ARE RIGHT.

LOOK, I DON'T IMAGINE THAT SUDDENLY, YOU KNOW, JUDGE WILSON'S JURISPRUDENCE IS GOING TO BE TRANSFORMED AND SUDDENLY HE WILL BECOME A CONSERVATIVE.

OF COURSE, AS THE CHIEF JUDGE, RIGHT, AS THE LEADER, RIGHT, OF THAT SEVEN-MEMBER COURT, YOU MIGHT SEE HIM MODERATE A LITTLE, MUCH LIKE WE'VE SEEN CHIEF JUSTICE JOHN ROBERTS ON THE UNITED STATES SUPREME COURT BECAUSE NOW IT REALLY IS A MATTER OF INSTITUTIONAL INTEGRITY AND HE IS THE LEADER OF THAT INSTITUTION.

WITH REGARD TO THE DWINDLING CASELOAD DURING THE DIFIORE ERA, HE'S MADE IT ABSOLUTELY CLEAR, RIGHT, HE'S MADE IT CLEAR PUBLICLY.

HE MADE IT CLEAR TO MY STUDENTS.

HE MADE IT CLEAR THE OTHER DAY AT THE CONFIRMATION PROCEEDINGS.

YOU CANNOT BE A PRE-IMMINENT COURT IF YOU ARE NOT HEARING MANY CASES.

THE COURT OF APPEALS THE LAST SEVERAL OF YEARS HAS DWINDLED ITS CASELOADS FROM 240 TO 250 A YEAR DOWN TO 80 ONE YEAR, 90 ANOTHER YEAR.

WOW.

WHO KNOWS WHY.

I MEAN, THERE'S SEVEN JUDGES, THEY EACH GOT THREE CLERKS.

DON'T TELL ME THAT'S TOO MUCH WORK.

I MEAN, THEY CAN CERTAINLY HANDLE MANY, MANY MORE CASES THAN THEY HAD BEEN.

YOU KNOW WITH THESE NEW JUDGES JOINING THE COURT, ESPECIALLY JUDGE WILSON, THE TONE OF THE STATE COURT SYSTEM IS REALLY SET FROM THE TOP DOWN.

SO JUDGE WILSON'S VISION FOR WHATEVER THE COURT SYSTEM WOULD BE WILL PRESUMABLY BE IMPLEMENTED BY THE COURT SYSTEM.

HOW DO YOU SEE HIM CHANGING THE TONE OF NEW YORK'S COURTS, WHICH IS THESE COMPLEX WEB OF, YOU KNOW, LITIGATION?

IT'S JUST VERY MESSY.

WELL, THE DYNAMICS BOTH WITHIN THE COURT OF APPEALS, ITSELF, AND THROUGHOUT THE JUDICIAL BRANCH HAS NOT BEEN VERY GOOD.

RIGHT?

IT'S NOT BEEN VERY GOOD OVER THE LAST FEW YEARS.

I MEAN, I DON'T KNOW WHETHER THAT'S FORMER CHIEF JUDGE JANET DIFIORE'S FAULT OR WHAT IT IS.

MAYBE IT'S THE SELECTIONS THAT ANDREW CUOMO HAS MADE.

I MEAN, THIS IS A GOVERNOR WHO DIDN'T REALLY CARE TOO MUCH ABOUT THE COURT OF APPEALS UNLIKE HIS DAD, YOU KNOW.

I MEAN, HE BASICALLY WOULD HAVE HIS OFFICE SEND OUT A PRESS RELEASE, OH, I'M NOMINATING SO-AND-SO.

YOU KNOW, HIS DAD ALWAYS MADE A BIG DEAL OF IT BECAUSE HIS DAD UNDERSTOOD HOW IMPORTANT IT WAS.

ANDREW DIDN'T.

AGAIN, GETTING BACK TO WHAT I SAID BEFORE, YOU KNOW, IF YOU HAVE A LEADER, YOU KNOW, LIKE JUDGE WILSON, YOU KNOW, LIKE CHIEF JUDGE KAYE BEFORE, LIKE JONATHAN LIPPMAN, YOU KNOW, SOMEBODY WHO IS EXTRAORDINARILY BRIGHT, SOMEBODY WHO KNOWS HOW TO DEAL WITH PEOPLE, YOU KNOW, THEY COULD REALLY PRODUCE GREAT CHANGES AND IMPROVE THE JUDICIAL SYSTEM, BOTH IN THE COURT AND THROUGH THE JUDICIARY, ITSELF.

IT IS A REALLY INTERESTING TIME FOR STATE COURTS AS WE SEE ALL THESE CHANGES IN JUDGESHIPS AND COURT ADMINISTRATION OVER THE NEXT COUPLE OF YEARS AND WE'RE IN THE MIDDLE OF THE STATE BUDGET, TOO.

SO THANK YOU FOR ALL THAT, VIN VON BONVENTRE FROM ALBANY LAW SCHOOL.

THANKS SO MUCH FOR INVITING ME, DAN.

[ THEME MUSIC ] AND THE COURT OF APPEALS WITH NEW CHIEF JUDGE WILSON HAS THEIR NEXT SESSION IN MAY BUT TURNING NOW TO A NEW EDITION OF ON THE BILL WHERE WE TELL YOU ABOUT A BILL OUT OF ALBANY THAT YOU MIGHT NOT HEAR ABOUT OTHERWISE.

THIS WEEK, WE'RE TALKING ABOUT A-1709, WHICH DEALS WITH LEGAL PROTECTIONS FOR ABORTION MEDICATION PRESCRIBERS.

LAST WEEK, WE TOLD YOU HOW NEW YORK IS STARTING TO STOCK PILE MISOPROSTOL.

THAT'S A DRUG THAT CAN INTRODUCE AN ABORTION.

THAT'S AFTER A FEW COURT RULINGS CAUSED SOME UNCERTAINTY OVER WHETHER ANOTHER ABORTION PILL CALLED MIFEPRISTONE WOULD STILL BE AVAILABLE IN SEVERAL STATES.

THAT BRINGS US TO A-1709.

IT'S A BILL THAT WOULD GRANT NEW LEGAL PROTECTIONS FOR DOCTORS AND CLINICIANS TO PRESCRIBE ABORTION MEDICATION FOR PEOPLE IN OTHER STATES USING TELEHEALTH AND IT WOULD SPECIFICALLY PROTECT THOSE PEOPLE FROM EXTRADITION AND HAVING TO COOPERATE IF ANOTHER STATE PURSUES CRIMINAL CHARGES.

IT'S SPONSORED BY STATE SENATOR SHELLEY MAYER, A DEMOCRAT FROM WESTCHESTER.

WE OWE IT TO OUR SISTERS THROUGHOUT THIS COUNTRY TO DO WHAT NEW YORK DOES BEST, WHICH IS ENSURE THAT WE PROVIDE A LEGAL MEANS FOR THESE PRACTITIONERS WHO ARE WILLING TO ASSUME THIS RISK TO PROVIDE THE SERVICES SO THAT WOMEN CAN TERMINATE PREGNANCIES, OR CAN DEAL WITHINS CARRIAGE, OR CAN DEAL WITH ALL OF THE OTHER MEDICAL NEEDS THEY HAVE.

WE'LL LET YOU KNOW IF THAT BILL STARTS TO MOVE.

WE'RE OUT OF TIME.

THANKS FOR WATCHING THIS WEEK'S NEW YORK NOW.

HAVE A GREAT WEEK AND BE WELL.

[ THEME MUSIC ] ANNOUNCER: FUNDING FOR "NEW YORK NOW" IS PROVIDED BY WNET.