♪ DAVID: WHAT DOES "THE MOMENT OF LIFT" REFER TO?

MELINDA GATES: THAT IF WE CAN HELP LIFT UP ALL WOMEN, WE WILL CHANGE THE WORLD.

DAVID: DID YOU FIND SOMETIMES A WOMAN WOULD SAY, "TAKE MY CHILD"?

MELINDA: IT IS HEARTBREAKING, AND THAT'S THE STORY OF WOMEN, MANY, MANY WOMEN AND FAMILIES AROUND THE WORLD.

DAVID: WHEN SOMEBODY CALLED YOU AND SAID, "GUESS WHAT, I'M GIVING YOU $50 BILLION OR $60 BILLION" YOU DIDN'T EXPECT, WHAT DID YOU SAY?

MELINDA: BILL AND I TOOK A WALK AND WE BOTH CRIED.

DAVID: WHEN DID YOU FIRST MEET BILL?

MELINDA: HE SORT OF SAID, "A BUNCH OF US ARE GOING OUT DANCING TONIGHT.

WHY DON'T YOU COME?"

DAVID: IS HE A BIG DANCER?

MELINDA: HE LIKES TO.

[LAUGHS] DAVID: ALL RIGHT.

ALL RIGHT.

OK. WOMAN: WOULD YOU FIX YOUR TIE, PLEASE?

DAVID: WELL, PEOPLE WOULDN'T RECOGNIZE ME IF MY TIE WAS FIXED, BUT OK. [WOMAN CHUCKLES] WOMAN: THEN LEAVE IT.

DAVID: JUST LEAVE IT THIS WAY.

ALL RIGHT.

♪ I DON'T CONSIDER MYSELF A JOURNALIST, AND NOBODY ELSE WOULD CONSIDER MYSELF A JOURNALIST.

I BEGAN TO TAKE ON THE LIFE OF BEING AN INTERVIEWER, EVEN THOUGH I HAVE A DAY JOB OF RUNNING A PRIVATE EQUITY FIRM.

HOW DO YOU DEFINE LEADERSHIP?

WHAT IS IT THAT MAKES SOMEBODY TICK?

YOU HAVE A NEW BOOK CALLED "THE MOMENT OF LIFT."

WHAT DOES "THE MOMENT OF LIFT" REFER TO, THE PHRASE, "LIFT"?

MELINDA: WELL, SO, FOR ME, "MOMENT OF LIFT"-- I GREW UP IN A FAMILY IN DALLAS, TEXAS, AND MY DAD WAS AN APOLLO ENGINEER ON THE APOLLO MISSIONS.

AND IT WAS WHEN WE WOULD GO WATCH THAT ROCKET LAUNCHING, AND THE EARTH WOULD BE SHAKING AND THE ROCKET WAS RUMBLING, AND IT FINALLY PUSHED AGAINST THE FORCES OF GRAVITY AND WENT TO THE MOON.

TO ME, THAT'S THE SAME THING I'VE SEEN WITH 20 YEARS OF WORK THROUGH THE FOUNDATION FOR WOMEN, THAT IF WE CAN HELP LIFT UP ALL WOMEN, WE WILL CHANGE THE WORLD, BUT THERE'S A LOT OF FORCES PUSHING WOMEN DOWN TODAY.

DAVID: SO LET'S TALK ABOUT THE FOUNDATION FOR A MOMENT.

IT'S THE LARGEST FOUNDATION IN THE WORLD.

IT HAS ASSETS OF HOW MUCH NOW?

MELINDA: NOW, WE HAVE ASSETS OF ABOUT $50 BILLION.

DAVID: YOU CREATED THE FOUNDATION FROM THE WEALTH CREATED BY MICROSOFT, AND THEN ONE DAY, WARREN BUFFETT CALLED YOU AND BILL AND SAID, "GUESS WHAT, "I DON'T KNOW WHAT TO DO WITH MY WEALTH, BUT I WANT TO GIVE IT TO YOU BECAUSE I LIKE WHAT YOU'RE DOING."

IS THAT ESSENTIALLY IT?

MELINDA: THAT'S ESSENTIALLY IT.

WARREN'S PLAN WAS THAT HIS WIFE SUSIE WAS VERY INVOLVED IN PHILANTHROPY, AND HIS PLAN HAD BEEN TO GIVE IT AWAY THROUGH THE FOUNDATION THAT HE AND SHE HAD, BUT SHE PASSED AWAY EARLY, UNEXPECTEDLY, AND SO THEN, YES, HE CAME AND SURPRISED BILL AND I AND SAID THAT THE VAST MAJORITY WOULD GO THROUGH OUR FOUNDATION AND THEN THREE THAT HIS CHILDREN HAD AND THE SUSAN T. BUFFETT FOUNDATION.

DAVID: SO, WHEN SOMEBODY CALLED YOU AND SAID, "GUESS WHAT, I'M GIVING YOU $50 OR $60 BILLION" YOU DIDN'T EXPECT, WHAT DID YOU SAY?

"THANK YOU" OR "I CAN'T BELIEVE THIS" OR-- MELINDA: I CAN HONESTLY TELL YOU THAT BILL AND I TOOK A WALK AFTER THAT DISCUSSION, AND WE WERE ALONE AND WE BOTH CRIED.

AND I THINK WE CRIED, BOTH OF US, BECAUSE TO KNOW WARREN'S GENEROSITY AND THAT WE WOULD BE ABLE TO DO EVEN SO MUCH MORE THAN WE WERE ALREADY DOING FOR PEOPLE AROUND THE WORLD, IT WAS JUST--UNBELIEVABLY TOUCHING MOMENT AND TOUCHING MOMENT OF FRIENDSHIP.

DAVID: OK, SO, WHEN YOU'RE DOING THE WORK OF THE FOUNDATION, THE TWO OF YOU--YOU'RE GOING TO SUB-SAHARAN AFRICA, AMONG OTHER PLACES, A LOT OF TRAVEL-- EVENTUALLY YOU DECIDED THAT YOU WANTED TO FOCUS A LITTLE BIT MORE ON WOMEN'S ISSUES, AND ONE OF THE FIRST ONES YOU THOUGHT ABOUT WAS CONTRACEPTION.

MELINDA: MMM.

DAVID: NOW, YOU ARE A COMMITTED CATHOLIC.

MELINDA: MM-HMM.

DAVID: AND WAS IT DIFFICULT FOR YOU TO SAY, "WE SHOULD FOCUS MORE OF THE FOUNDATION'S EFFORTS ON CONTRACEPTION," WHAT WAS BILL'S VIEW, AND DID YOU GET A LOT OF FLAK FROM PEOPLE IN THE CATHOLIC HIERARCHY?

MELINDA: YEAH, SO BILL WAS 100% SUPPORTIVE OF THIS DECISION, AND HE KNEW THAT I HAD LEARNED SO MUCH IN THE DEVELOPING WORLD FROM TALKING TO WOMEN, HE KNEW I'D LOOKED AT THE DATA, I'D LOOKED AT WHERE WE DIDN'T HAVE DATA, AND I WAS ABLE TO TALK TO HIM ABOUT IT, AND HE KNEW THIS WAS THE GREATEST ANTIPOVERTY TOOL WE HAVE, THE GREATEST.

AND IF YOU MAKE SURE THAT WOMEN HAVE ACCESS ALL OVER THE WORLD-- 200 MILLION WOMEN WERE ASKING THE WORLD TO HAVE THIS TOOL, AND WE WEREN'T DELIVERING IT AS A WORLD.

SO I KNEW, WHEN I DECIDED TO TAKE THIS ON, THAT THE REASON WE WEREN'T DELIVERING IT WAS POLITICAL CONTROVERSY IN OUR OWN COUNTRY AND RELIGIOUS ISSUES, SO IT WAS A DIFFICULT DECISION FOR ME BECAUSE OF MY CATHOLIC ROOTS-- I AM STILL CATHOLIC--BUT WHEN I MET SO MANY WOMEN AROUND THE WORLD, AND THEY WOULD DISCUSS WITH ME THAT THIS WAS LITERALLY A LIFE-AND-DEATH CRISIS FOR THEM AS A MOM--THEY WOULD SAY, "IF I HAVE ANOTHER BABY TOO SOON, I'LL DIE IN CHILDBIRTH" OR "I HAVE FIVE CHILDREN.

"IT'S NOT FAIR TO MY LAST CHILD OR THE OTHERS TO HAVE ANOTHER ONE WHEN I CAN'T FEED THEM."

AND SO I HAD TO WRESTLE WITH MY CATHOLIC FAITH AND SAY, "WHAT DO I BELIEVE IN?"

I BELIEVE IN SAVING LIVES, AND SO THIS WAS THE RIGHT THING TO DO.

DAVID: AND DID YOU FIND SOMETIMES, A WOMAN WOULD SAY, "TAKE MY CHILD BECAUSE I CAN'T RAISE THIS CHILD"?

MELINDA: MORE THAN ONCE.

I'LL GIVE YOU AN EXAMPLE.

I WAS IN NORTHERN INDIA, AND I VISITED A HEALTH CLINIC, SO I WENT INTO A VILLAGE, TALKED TO A WOMAN, AND BY THE TIME I WAS FINISHED SPEAKING WITH HER, I ASKED HER--KIND OF HAD ONE LAST QUESTION--I SAID, "SO WHAT HOPE DO YOU HAVE?"

HER NAME WAS MINA.

"WHAT HOPE DO YOU HAVE?"

AND SHE LOOKED DOWN FOR A LONG TIME, SHE CAST HER EYES DOWN.

I THOUGHT, "OH, NO, I'VE ASKED SOMETHING INAPPROPRIATE."

AND SHE FINALLY LOOKED UP AT ME AND SHE SAID, "THE TRUTH IS, "I HAVE NO HOPE.

I HAVE NO HOPE "FOR FEEDING THIS CHILD OR THAT ONE OR EDUCATING THEM.

PLEASE, TAKE THEM HOME WITH YOU."

AND WHEN THAT HAPPENS-- IT WAS NOT THE FIRST TIME IT HAD HAPPENED TO ME-- IT IS HEARTBREAKING.

TO SEE A WOMAN WHO LOVES HER-- CLEARLY LOVES HER SONS THAT MUCH, BUT TO KNOW THEY WOULD BE BETTER OFF GOING HOME WITH A STRANGER, THAT'S HEARTBREAKING, AND THAT'S THE STORY OF WOMEN, MANY, MANY WOMEN AND FAMILIES AROUND THE WORLD.

DAVID: SO WHAT DID YOU DECIDE TO DO?

DID YOU DECIDE TO MAKE CONTRACEPTIONS AVAILABLE TO WOMEN IN THESE AREAS, AND THEN THE FOUNDATION FUNDED THAT?

MELINDA: WE AND OUR PARTNERS BUILT A GLOBAL COALITION IN 2012 AND FOR THE FIRST TIME, WE RAISED FOR WOMEN $2.6 BILLION TO PROVIDE ACCESS TO ALL TYPES OF CONTRACEPTIVES AROUND THE WORLD IN THE 69 POOREST NATIONS WHERE WOMEN DO NOT HAVE ACCESS TO CONTRACEPTIVES, AND WE ARE SYSTEMATICALLY WORKING TO EDUCATE WOMEN ABOUT THEM.

YOU'D BE AMAZED HOW MUCH WOMEN KNOW ABOUT THEM ALREADY, BUT TO EDUCATE ABOUT THEIR BODIES AND THEN TO MAKE SURE THEY HAVE ACCESS TO THE TOOLS THEY WANT TO HAVE.

DAVID: SO, ANNUALLY, YOU HAVE A LETTER THAT IS WRITTEN BY THE FOUNDATION HEADS, YOU AND BILL.

ORIGINALLY, IT WAS WRITTEN BY BILL.

MELINDA: MMM.

DAVID: AND THEN, WHEN YOU SAID, "BILL, I WANT TO GET SOME OF THE WOMEN'S ISSUES IN," WHAT DID HE SAY?

MELINDA: YEAH, SO FIRST OF ALL, THE IDEA FOR THE ANNUAL LETTER CAME FROM WARREN, AND BILL AND I BOTH THOUGHT THAT WAS A REALLY GOOD IDEA, HOWEVER, WE HAD THREE VERY YOUNG CHILDREN AT THE TIME, AND I WAS ON SEVERAL BOARDS AND WORKING AT THE FOUNDATION AS AN EXECUTIVE AND I SAID, "BILL, I DON'T HAVE TIME TO PUT PEN TO PAPER.

I JUST CAN'T DO IT."

AND BILL SAID, "THAT'S OK.

I'LL DO IT."

AND SO BILL STARTED WRITING IT AND HE DID A GREAT JOB, BUT HE GOT VERY USED TO WRITING IT ALONE, SO WHEN THIS CONTRACEPTIVE INITIATIVE THAT I WAS LEADING CAME OUT, I SAID, "BILL, I REALLY WANT TO WRITE ABOUT THIS IN THE ANNUAL LETTER."

AND HE FELT LIKE THE ANNUAL LETTER WAS GOING QUITE WELL FROM HIS PERSPECTIVE, AND SO WE HAD SOME DIFFICULT DISCUSSIONS AT HOME, AND I FINALLY WROTE A SIDEBAR IN THE ANNUAL LETTER.

THE NEXT YEAR, WE DISCUSSED IT AGAIN BEFORE PEN WAS PUT TO PAPER, AND I WROTE A PIECE OF THE ANNUAL LETTER, ABOUT A THIRD.

AND THE NEXT YEAR, WE HAD ANOTHER DISCUSSION AND I WROTE HALF, AND NOW I ALWAYS WRITE HALF OF THE ANNUAL LETTER.

DAVID: OK. MELINDA: AND I TELL THAT STORY IN THE BOOK BECAUSE I WANT WOMEN AND MEN TO KNOW THAT WE HAVE TO LOOK AT WHAT WE EXPECT IN OUR ROLES, AND SOMETIMES WE DO THINGS FOR GOOD REASON-- BILL AND I HAD A GOOD REASON THAT I DIDN'T START WRITING THE ANNUAL LETTER--BUT WE HAVE TO SOMETIMES HAVE THOSE UNCOMFORTABLE CONVERSATIONS.

BILL AND I BELIEVE IN EQUALITY, BUT DID WE REALLY HAVE IT IN OUR VOICE?

NOT YET, AND SO WE WORKED ON THAT SYSTEMATICALLY OVER TIME, AND NOW I CAN TELL YOU MY HUSBAND IS 100% COMMITTED TO MAKING SURE I HAVE MY VOICE FULLY IN THE WORLD.

DAVID: OK, SO, LIKE MOST MARRIED COUPLES, YOU HAVE DISAGREEMENTS FROM TIME TO TIME?

MELINDA: SURE.

SURE, I THINK EVERY MARRIAGE DOES, AND I THINK--I BELIEVE, IN MARRIAGE, YOU SHOULD HAVE A LITTLE BIT OF HEALTHY GRIST BECAUSE THAT'S HOW YOU MOVE FORWARD.

DAVID: OK. LET'S TALK ABOUT YOUR BEGINNING OF YOUR LIFE.

YOU GREW UP IN DALLAS.

MELINDA: I DID.

DAVID: AND YOUR FATHER WAS AN ENGINEER?

MELINDA: HE WAS AN AEROSPACE ENGINEER, RIGHT, WORKING ON THE APOLLO MISSIONS EARLY ON.

DAVID: AND YOUR MOTHER WAS NOT COLLEGE-EDUCATED, BUT SHE HELPED START A REAL-ESTATE BUSINESS THAT ENABLED YOUR FAMILY TO PAY FOR PRIVATE SCHOOLING?

MELINDA: ABSOLUTELY.

THERE WERE 4 KIDS IN OUR FAMILY, AND WE COULD SEE FROM MY DAD'S ENGINEERING SALARY, MY PARENTS HAD THIS GOAL THAT ALL FOUR OF US WOULD BE COLLEGE-GOING, WE WOULD GO ANYWHERE IN THE COUNTRY WE WANTED TO GO, AND THEY WERE GOING TO FIGURE OUT HOW TO PAY FOR IT.

SO MY PARENTS FOUNDED A SMALL REAL-ESTATE INVESTMENT BUSINESS, AND MY MOM RAN IT FULL-TIME DURING THE DAY, RAISING FOUR KIDS, AND THEN MY PARENTS AND WE WORKED ON IT AT NIGHT AND ON THE WEEKENDS.

DAVID: OK, YOU WENT TO DUKE.

WHERE ELSE DID YOU THINK OF GOING?

MELINDA: WELL, ACTUALLY, THE FIRST PLACE I THOUGHT I WANTED TO GO WAS NOTRE DAME BECAUSE MANY OF MY GIRLFRIENDS IN HIGH SCHOOL'S DADS HAD GONE THERE, BUT WHEN I WENT--MY DAD AND I WENT TO VISIT NOTRE DAME-- THEY WERE PHASING OUT COMPUTER SCIENCE.

THEY THOUGHT IT WAS A FAD, AND THEY WERE PUTTING IT BACK INTO THE DEPARTMENTS, AND I WANTED TO STUDY COMPUTER SCIENCE BECAUSE A TEACHER, MY MATH TEACHER IN HIGH SCHOOL, HAD GONE TO THE HEAD NUN AND ADVOCATED TO BRING COMPUTERS INTO THE SCHOOL WHEN ALMOST NOBODY HAD COMPUTERS, SO I WAS--I KNEW I WANTED TO STUDY COMPUTER SCIENCE IN COLLEGE, AND I WAS KIND OF DEVASTATED, ACTUALLY, 'CAUSE I--MY DREAM HAD BEEN TO GO TO NOTRE DAME.

BUT THEN I SAW DUKE, THEY JUST HAD A BIG GRANT FROM IBM-- TWO GREAT COMPUTER LABS--AND I SAID, "THIS IS WHERE I'M GOING."

DAVID: YOU WERE NOT ON THE BASKETBALL TEAM, RIGHT?

EVERYBODY AT DUKE DOESN'T PLAY BASKETBALL, RIGHT?

MELINDA: NOT EVERYBODY.

I WENT TO THE GAMES, THOUGH.

I LOVED THEM.

DAVID: OK, AND YOU POINTED OUT IN YOUR BOOK THAT, INTERESTINGLY, WOMEN WERE MORE INVOLVED IN COMPUTER SCIENCE YEARS AGO THAN MAYBE TODAY.

WHY WAS THAT?

MELINDA: YES, SO, AT THE TIME I WAS IN COLLEGE, THE LATE 1980s, WE HAD--ABOUT 37% OF COLLEGE UNDERGRADS IN COMPUTER SCIENCE WERE WOMEN, SO WE WERE ON OUR WAY UP, WE THOUGHT, LIKE LAW AND MEDICINE, AND THAT HAS SINCE DROPPED DOWN TO ABOUT 17% OR 18%.

NOW IT'S ON A SLIGHT UPTICK TO 19%.

WE DON'T ACTUALLY KNOW WHY WOMEN HAVE DROPPED OUT OF COMPUTER SCIENCE, BUT THERE ARE SOME THEORIES, LOOKING AT THE DATA WE DO HAVE, AND THAT IS THAT PERSONAL COMPUTERS WERE REALLY PROMOTED TO BOYS AS A HOME GAMING DEVICE, AND WOMEN AND GIRLS SAID, "I'M OUT," AND THEN IT BECAME THIS SELF-REFERENTIAL CIRCLE.

DAVID: OK. YOU WENT IN A SPECIAL PROGRAM.

IT WAS A FIVE-YEAR PROGRAM WHERE YOU GET AN UNDERGRADUATE DEGREE AND AN MBA.

MELINDA: RIGHT.

DAVID: SO, AFTER FIVE YEARS, YOU HAVE YOUR DEGREE, OR ABOUT TO HAVE YOUR DEGREE, SO YOU WERE INTERVIEWING AT COMPUTER COMPANIES.

THERE WAS A SMALL COMPANY THAT WAS INTERVIEWING, I GUESS, AT DUKE AS WELL CALLED MICROSOFT.

MELINDA: MM-HMM.

I WAS PART OF THE FIRST HIRING CLASS OF MBAs AT MICROSOFT, AND THERE WERE NINE MEN AND ME.

DAVID: SO YOU GO TO MICROSOFT, AND IS IT AS GOOD AS YOU THINK?

MELINDA: WELL, WE WERE CHANGING THE WORLD.

I LOVED THAT.

I LOVED THE INNOVATIVE NATURE.

I LOVED CREATING PRODUCTS.

I DID CONSIDER LEAVING MICROSOFT, THOUGH, WITHIN ABOUT TWO YEARS, BECAUSE I WAS, UM-- THE CULTURE WAS ABRASIVE, QUITE HONESTLY, AND, UM, I DIDN'T--AND I COULD PLAY THAT GAME.

I KNEW HOW TO DO THE DEBATE, I KNEW HOW TO STAND UP FOR MY IDEAS, STAND UP FOR MY TEAM'S IDEAS, BUT I DIDN'T LIKE MYSELF.

AND I DIDN'T LIKE HOW I WAS TREATING OTHER PEOPLE WHEN I'D GO TO THE GROCERY STORE OR OUT IN THE WORLD OR INTERACT WITH OTHER PEOPLE, AND SO I THOUGHT ABOUT LEAVING.

AND THEN I THOUGHT, "NO, I DON'T THINK THIS WILL WORK, "BUT I'LL TRY BEING MYSELF IN THIS CULTURE AND JUST SEE IF IT WORKS, AND IF NOT, I'LL GO TAKE SOME OTHER JOB."

AND I STARTED TO BE MYSELF, AND I STARTED TO BUILD TEAMS THAT WERE COLLABORATIVE AND THAT WORKED TOGETHER MORE AND WERE LESS ABRASIVE, AND IT TURNED OUT I COULD RECRUIT PEOPLE FROM ALL OVER THE COMPANY, TO MY SURPRISE, TO WORK ON THESE TEAMS.

DAVID: SO WHEN DID YOU FIRST MEET BILL?

MELINDA: SO I ACTUALLY FIRST MET BILL--SO, THREE WEEKS INTO MY JOB, I'D NEVER BEEN TO NEW YORK CITY.

I'D NEVER HAILED A CAB.

MICROSOFT SENT ME TO NEW YORK FOR A BUSINESS MEETING, AND SO MY FEMALE ROOMMATE-- MICROSOFT USED TO MAKE YOU HAVE ANOTHER ROOMMATE WHEN YOU WENT TRAVELING ON THE ROAD.

MY FEMALE ROOMMATE SAID, "HEY, WHEN YOU'RE DONE "WITH YOUR BUSINESS MEETING ACROSS TOWN, WHY DON'T YOU COME TO THIS DINNER?"

AND I SAID, "GREAT," CAME FROM ACROSS TOWN, SAT DOWN AT A DINNER.

THERE WERE TWO CHAIRS OPEN, 'CAUSE I CAME LATE FROM THIS MEETING THAT I WAS AT, AND I SAT DOWN.

THE NEXT CHAIR WAS EMPTY.

TEN MINUTES LATER, BILL CAME IN, SAT DOWN NEXT TO ME, AND SO THAT'S WHEN I FIRST MET BILL, ABOUT THREE WEEKS INTO THE JOB.

DAVID: AND HE SAID, "WOW, HOW ABOUT GETTING TO KNOW ME BETTER?"

HE DIDN'T SAY THAT THEN?

MELINDA: HE SORT OF SAID, "A BUNCH OF US ARE GOING OUT DANCING TONIGHT.

WHY DON'T YOU COME?"

AND I SAID, "WELL, I ACTUALLY HAVE SOME OTHER PLANS FROM SOMEBODY I KNEW FROM BUSINESS SCHOOL TONIGHT."

AND THEN, BACK AT MICROSOFT A FEW MONTHS LATER--EVERYBODY BACK THEN USED TO WORK LATE ON FRIDAY NIGHTS, QUITE LATE; ON SATURDAY, YOU'D WORK TILL ABOUT 3:00 OR 4:00, AND SO MY CAR WAS PARKED NEXT TO HIS IN A PARKING LOT, AND HE STRUCK UP A CONVERSATION, AND WE TALKED FOR A WHILE, THEN HE SAID--HE ASKED ME IF I WOULD GO OUT WITH HIM, EVENTUALLY, TWO--THIS WAS A SATURDAY-- "TWO WEEKS FROM FRIDAY NIGHT."

AND I SAID, "TWO WEEKS FROM FRIDAY NIGHT?"

LIKE, I WAS 22 YEARS OLD, YOU KNOW, I WAS, LIKE, "I HAVE NO IDEA WHAT I'M DOING TWO WEEKS FROM FRIDAY NIGHT."

I SAID, "THAT'S NOT QUITE SPONTANEOUS ENOUGH FOR ME."

AND HE SAID, "OK, WELL, WILL YOU GIVE ME--CAN I TAKE YOUR PHONE NUMBER?

SO HE DID, CALLED ME ABOUT AN HOUR LATER AT MY APARTMENT AND SAID, "WELL, IS THIS SPONTANEOUS ENOUGH FOR YOU?

HOW ABOUT TONIGHT?"

BUT THEN HE SAID, "BUT I HAVE "A USER GROUP MEETING AND A DINNER I HAVE TO GO TO, SO HOW ABOUT A GLASS OF WINE DOWNTOWN?"

AND I THOUGHT, "A USER GROUP MEETING ON A SATURDAY NIGHT?"

BUT I AGREED TO MEET HIM FOR A GLASS OF WINE, AND THAT WAS OUR FIRST DATE.

DAVID: OK, AND WAS IT HARD TO WORK AT THE COMPANY WHILE PEOPLE KNEW THAT YOU WERE DATING THE CEO/FOUNDER?

MELINDA: YEAH, SO I, UM-- SO THAT FIRST DATE WITH BILL, I THOUGHT I WOULD GO OUT WITH HIM ONCE, MAYBE TWICE, AND I JUST THOUGHT, "WELL, HE'LL "BE INTERESTING, OBVIOUSLY; HE'S RUNNING THIS COMPANY THAT'S DOING ALL THESE AMAZING THINGS IN THE WORLD."

THEN, WHEN I REALIZED WE WERE GOING TO START DATING MORE AFTER THE FIRST TWO DATES, I THOUGHT, "THIS IS TRICKY, AND I'M NOT SURE I WANT TO DO THIS," BECAUSE I'D WORKED REALLY HARD.

I MEAN, COMPUTER SCIENCE, TO GET MY MBA, I STUDIED ECONOMICS, AND I THOUGHT, "THIS--I'M NOT SURE THIS IS GOING TO GO WELL FOR ME," AND I REMEMBER TALKING TO MY PARENTS ON THE PHONE, PARTICULARLY MY MOM.

SHE WAS LIKE, "THIS IS NOT A GOOD IDEA."

AND I SAID, "YEAH, BUT HE'S REALLY INTERESTING, AND HE ACTUALLY HAS A BIG HEART THAT I THINK A LOT OF PEOPLE DON'T SEE" AND I DON'T KNOW WHY I'D SORT OF GOTTEN TO SEE THAT SIDE OF HIM.

AND SO WHAT I DECIDED TO DO WAS THAT I WOULD DATE HIM, BUT I MADE IT KNOWN IN THE COMPANY.

I DIDN'T TRY TO HIDE IT, AND I MADE IT INCREDIBLY CLEAR TO THE TEAMS THAT I WAS MANAGING THAT I HAD THESE VERY BRIGHT LINES AND THAT I DID NOT GO HOME FROM MICROSOFT AND TALK TO BILL ABOUT WORK BECAUSE I'M PREPARING TEAMS TO GO INTO MEETINGS WITH SENIOR LEADERSHIP, INCLUDING BILL, AND THEY'RE NERVOUS, RIGHT?

AND I'M HAVING TO PREPARE THEM, PREPARE MYSELF, AND THE LAST THING I COULD DO WAS GO HOME AND TALK TO HIM.

THEY HAD TO KNOW I HAD THEIR BACK IN THE MEETING, AND SO I JUST HAD TO HAVE VERY BRIGHT LINES AROUND THAT, AND WE MADE THAT WORK.

DAVID: WELL, IT WORKED OUT.

MELINDA: IT DID WORK OUT.

DAVID: IT'S HARD TO BELIEVE, THOUGH, ON THE FIRST NIGHT THAT YOU MET HIM THAT-- I CAN'T SEE BILL GOING OUT AND BEING A DANCER.

IS HE A BIG DANCER?

I WOULDN'T HAVE PICTURED HE'D BE GOING OUT DANCING AT NIGHT.

MELINDA: HE LIKES TO.

HA HA HA!

DAVID: OK, ALL RIGHT.

OK. YOU DECIDED, WHEN YOUR CHILDREN CAME, THAT YOU WANTED TO SPEND MORE TIME WITH THEM, AND YOU LEFT MICROSOFT.

MELINDA: I SURPRISED BILL AND TOLD HIM I WANTED TO LEAVE MICROSOFT, YES.

DAVID: AND HIS REACTION WAS?

MELINDA: "REALLY?"

'CAUSE HE KNEW I LOVED WORKING, AND I LOVED WORKING AT MICROSOFT.

AND HE ALSO KNEW I HAD THAT PIECE OF MY BRAIN THAT LOVED TO BE ON THE WORKING SIDE, SO HE WAS QUITE SURPRISED WHEN I TOLD HIM I WAS GOING TO LEAVE.

DAVID: DID YOU THEN GO TO THE FOUNDATION FULL-TIME AFTER YOUR CHILDREN WERE A LITTLE BIT OLDER?

MELINDA: MY WHOLE ISSUE ABOUT HOW MUCH I WAS GOING TO WORK AT THE FOUNDATION IS I HAD IT TIMED FOR WHEN OUR KIDS WOULD GET OLDER, SO I KNEW, UNTIL OUR LAST DAUGHTER WENT OFF TO PRESCHOOL, I WAS NOT GOING TO BE FULL-TIME.

ONCE I KNEW SHE WAS GOING TO BE IN PRESCHOOL, MY PLAN ALWAYS THEN WAS TO WORK FULL-TIME.

DAVID: LET'S TALK ABOUT THE ISSUES OF WOMEN IN SUB-SAHARAN AFRICA AND SOME OF THE OTHER THINGS YOU ADDRESS IN YOUR BOOK.

MELINDA: YEAH.

DAVID: YOU POINT OUT THAT IN SUB-SAHARAN AFRICA AND OTHER PLACES, THERE ARE CHILD MARRIAGES.

MELINDA: MM-HMM.

DAVID: WOMEN ARE FORCED TO MARRY AT 6, 7, 8 YEARS OLD.

WHY DOES THAT HAPPEN?

MELINDA: QUITE OFTEN, A FAMILY WILL MARRY THEIR DAUGHTER OFF BECAUSE, ONE, THEY THEN DON'T HAVE TO FEED HER, SO IT'S LESS RESOURCES FROM THEIR FAMILY, AND TWO, THEY ALSO WANT TO PROTECT THE FAMILY'S HONOR, SO THEY WILL MARRY HER EARLY INTO ANOTHER VILLAGE SO THAT THEY CAN PROTECT HER HONOR AND THE FAMILY'S HONOR.

AND THAT IS A CULTURAL BARRIER THAT IS HORRIBLE FOR GIRLS BECAUSE THEY THEN OFTEN DON'T GO TO SECONDARY SCHOOL, OR IF THEY'RE IN SECONDARY SCHOOL, THEY'RE PULLED OUT OF SCHOOL.

THEY'RE MOVED TO A VILLAGE, OFTEN WHERE THEY KNOW NO ONE.

IT'S NOT EVEN CLOSE TO THEIR HOME.

IT'S A HORRIFIC THING FOR A GIRL.

SHE BASICALLY BECOMES THE PROPERTY OF HER HUSBAND'S FAMILY OR HER MOTHER-IN-LAW.

DAVID: SO WHAT HAVE YOU TRIED TO DO TO PREVENT SOME OF THIS FROM OCCURRING?

MELINDA: THE ONLY WAY YOU CAN OVERCOME CULTURAL BARRIERS IS FIRST YOU GO IN IN VERY SENSITIVE WAYS WITH PARTNERS, BUT THEN THE COMMUNITY HAS TO COMMIT TO IT.

DAVID: ANOTHER AREA YOU TALK ABOUT IN THE BOOK IS A SITUATION WHERE YOU HAVE FEMALE CUTTING.

MELINDA: MMM.

MMM.

DAVID: GENITAL CUTTING.

WHAT IS THE PURPOSE OF THAT, AND HOW FREQUENT IS THAT DONE WITH YOUNG WOMEN AROUND THE WORLD?

MELINDA: THAT IS STILL A TRADITION, PARTICULARLY IN A LOT OF NORTHERN AFRICA, AND IT IS HORRIFIC FOR A YOUNG GIRL.

YOUNG GIRLS BLEED TO DEATH.

IT IS TRAUMA, A TRAUMATIC EVENT IN THEIR LIVES.

VILLAGERS DO IT FOR A DIFFERENT REASON.

THEY BELIEVE IT PROTECTS THE GIRL'S HONOR, THEY BELIEVE THAT THEY--IF THEY LOVE THEIR DAUGHTER, THEY WILL DO IT.

BUT WHAT I HAVE KNOWN IS THAT WHEN EDUCATION COMES IN-- I TALKED TO A VILLAGE LEADER, AN ELDER, AND A GROUP OF WOMEN WHO USED TO CUT THEIR DAUGHTERS AND NO LONGER DO, AND A GROUP OF WOMEN WHO ARE THE CUTTERS WHO NO LONGER DO IT, AND THEY SAID, "YOU KNOW, WHEN PEOPLE BRING IN EDUCATION FROM OUTSIDE, AND THEY "TALK TO US ABOUT THINGS, HOW PEOPLE VIEW THIS IN OTHER PLACES "IN THE WORLD, IT STARTS TO CHANGE OUR MIND, AND WE START TO QUESTION OUR PAST, AND THEN WE CREATE CHANGE."

DAVID: ANOTHER ONE YOU TALK ABOUT IS ABUSIVE RELATIONSHIPS, AND HUSBANDS ARE VERY ABUSIVE TO THEIR SPOUSES... MELINDA: MMM.

DAVID: IN MANY DIFFERENT WAYS.

AND YOU POINT OUT IN THE BOOK-- AND IT MUST HAVE BEEN DIFFICULT TO WRITE ABOUT THIS--THAT YOU HAD AN ABUSIVE RELATIONSHIP AS WELL BEFORE YOU WERE MARRIED.

MELINDA: YEAH, SO THE REASON I EVEN WRITE A PAGE IN THE BOOK ABOUT HAVING BEEN IN AN ABUSIVE RELATIONSHIP IS THAT I WANT PEOPLE TO KNOW IT CAN HAPPEN TO ANYONE, IT SILENCES YOUR VOICE, IT IS A WAY OF SILENCING A WOMAN'S VOICE IN A MARRIAGE OR IN HER WORKPLACE OR HER COMMUNITY AND, FOR ME, I LOST MY SELF-CONFIDENCE.

AND MILLIONS OF WOMEN ARE BEING EITHER HARASSED OR ABUSED IN ALL KINDS OF PLACES AND, AGAIN, IT SILENCES WOMEN.

AND SO WE HAVE TO TALK ABOUT THIS BARRIER AND WE HAVE TO LIFT IT UP, AND WHAT WE CAN DO IS COLLECT DATA ABOUT IT-- THE WORLD DOESN'T ACTUALLY COLLECT DATA ON ABUSE-- AND THEN WE CAN GO IN AND NAME IT AND RECOGNIZE IT AND ALL COMMIT TO CHANGING IT EVERYWHERE IN THE WORLD.

DAVID: RIGHT.

NOW, A FEW YEARS AGO, YOU, BILL, AND WARREN DECIDED TO LAUNCH THE GIVING PLEDGE.

MELINDA: MMM.

DAVID: NOW, WHAT WAS THE PURPOSE OF THE GIVING PLEDGE, AND HOW MANY PEOPLE HAVE NOW SIGNED IT?

MELINDA: YES, SO THE PURPOSE-- THIS WAS WARREN'S BIG IDEA, WHICH WAS THE GIVING PLEDGE WAS TO SAY, "IF YOU HAVE "GREAT WEALTH, IF YOU'RE A BILLIONAIRE IN OUR COUNTRY "OR ANYWHERE IN THE WORLD, YOU CAN AFFORD TO GIVE HALF AWAY, AND THAT IS THE RIGHT THING FOR SOCIETY."

BILL AND WARREN ARE REALLY CLEAR THAT THEY COULD NOT HAVE FOUNDED THEIR BUSINESSES IF IT HAD BEEN, SAY, IN MALAWI OR MOZAMBIQUE, AND SO WE BENEFIT FROM WHAT SOCIETY GIVES US, THE INFRASTRUCTURE, AND SO THOSE RESOURCES AT LEAST HAVE TO GO BACK TO SOCIETY.

YOU'VE BEEN A BIG HELP TO US IN THIS, DAVID.

WE NOW HAVE 190 FAMILIES WHO'VE COMMITTED TO THE GIVING PLEDGE IN 22 DIFFERENT COUNTRIES AROUND THE WORLD.

DAVID: THERE'S A BIT OF A REACTION AGAINST WEALTHY PEOPLE SAYING, "LET'S PUT OUR MONEY HERE, PUT OUR MONEY THERE."

HOW DO YOU RESPOND TO THAT?

MELINDA: I THINK--SO WHAT I KNOW TO BE TRUE IS THAT BILL AND WARREN AND I BELIEVE THAT WE SHOULD NOT HAVE THIS INEQUITY THAT EXISTS IN THE UNITED STATES.

WE NEED TO DO SOMETHING ABOUT THAT, BUT WE ARE LUCKY.

I MEET SO MANY PEOPLE AROUND THE WORLD WHO WOULD LIKE TO LIVE IN OUR COUNTRY, WHO WOULD LIKE TO LIVE IN OUR DEMOCRACY AND OUR CAPITALISTIC SYSTEM, BUT WE DO HAVE GAPS IN IT, AND WE NEED TO DO THINGS TO FIX THOSE GAPS.

THE THING THAT BILL AND I TRY TO BE MOST COGNIZANT OF IS WHAT'S THE ROLE OF PHILANTHROPY?

ALL PHILANTHROPY CAN BE IS THAT CATALYTIC WEDGE.

WE CAN TRY THINGS, WE CAN EXPERIMENT WITH OUR OWN MONEY, WHERE YOU WOULDN'T WANT A GOVERNMENT TO EXPERIMENT WITH TAXPAYER MONEY, BUT THEN WE HAVE TO PROVE IT OUT AND THEN IT'S UP TO GOVERNMENT TO SCALE UP, SO WE FEEL THAT PHILANTHROPY WITH GOVERNMENT, WITH A PRIVATE SECTOR, WITH A NONGOVERNMENTAL ORGANIZATION--THAT THAT SET OF PARTNERSHIPS AND THAT ECOSYSTEM CAN DO THE BEST FOR THE WORLD.

DAVID: NOW, SOMETIMES FOUNDATIONS ARE KNOWN AS PERPETUAL FOUNDATIONS.

MELINDA: MM-HMM.

DAVID: THE FORD FOUNDATION OR ROCKEFELLER, THEY CAN LIVE FOREVER, PRESUMABLY, IF THEY DON'T LOSE THEIR MONEY.

YOUR FOUNDATION IS NOT A PERPETUAL, AND WHY DID YOU DECIDE NOT TO HAVE IT BE PERPETUAL?

MELINDA: WELL, WARREN HAS HAD A FABULOUS, HUGE INFLUENCE ON US, AND WARREN SAID ABOUT HIS OWN WEALTH FROM BERKSHIRE HATHAWAY, HE SAID, "YOU KNOW, I'M GOING TO GIVE THIS AWAY DURING MY LIFETIME, AND WITHIN TEN YEARS OF MY ESTATE SETTLING."

AND AS BILL THOUGHT ABOUT THAT AND I THOUGHT ABOUT THAT IDEA, WE SAID, "YES, THAT'S RIGHT.

WE DON'T HAVE A CRYSTAL BALL.

"WE CAN'T PREDICT WHAT THE PROBLEMS ARE GOING TO BE A "HUNDRED YEARS FROM NOW, BUT WE WANT TO WORK ON TODAY'S ISSUES WHILE WE'RE ALIVE AND WHILE WE'RE ENERGETIC AND HEALTHY."

AND SO, WITHIN 20 YEARS OF THE LAST OF BILL OR I PASSING AWAY, ALL OF THE RESOURCES THAT WILL FLOW THROUGH THE FOUNDATION WILL BE GIVEN AWAY.

DAVID: SO MANY PEOPLE ARE PROBABLY WONDERING WHAT IT'S LIKE TO BE, FOR QUITE SOME TIME, THE RICHEST COUPLE IN THE WORLD.

MELINDA: MMM.

DAVID: DOES IT MAKE IT POSSIBLE FOR YOU TO GO TO A RESTAURANT?

CAN YOU GO TO A MOVIE?

MELINDA: WELL, FIRST OF ALL, WE ARE INCREDIBLY PRIVILEGED AND LUCKY TO HAVE THE RESOURCES WE HAVE FROM MICROSOFT.

THAT IS THAT, FULL STOP.

WE DO GIVE UP SOME PRIVACY BY HAVING THAT, BUT I HAVE TO SAY, MOST PEOPLE ARE INCREDIBLY RESPECTFUL.

SEATTLE IS A LOVELY PLACE TO LIVE.

BILL GREW UP THERE, AND SO THE PEOPLE WHO COME UP, IT'S MORE BECAUSE THEY'RE PROUD OF WHAT HE'S BUILT WITH MICROSOFT AND THAT'S BEING CARRIED ON OR WHAT WE'RE DOING WITH THE FOUNDATION, SO WE TRY TO LOOK AT THOSE--I TRY TO LOOK AT THOSE AS MOMENTS OF GRACE, AND WE TRY TO BE OUT IN THE WORLD.

BILL AND I STILL LOVE TO GO OUT TO MOVIES, WE LIKE TO GO OUT TO RESTAURANTS.

DAVID: SO YOU TOLD ME A COUPLE OF STORIES ABOUT YOUR LIFE TOGETHER, AND I MIGHT ASK YOU ABOUT THEM.

YOU TOLD ME ONCE WHEN YOU DROPPED YOUR FIRST-- YOUR OLDEST DAUGHTER OFF AT COLLEGE, LIKE ANYBODY THAT DROPS THEIR KIDS OFF IN SCHOOL, IN COLLEGE, THEY FIRST--THEY SAY, "WELL, YOU NEED THIS, YOU NEED THAT," SO YOU DECIDED YOU'D GO TO LOWE'S, I THINK IT WAS, TO GET SOME ADDITIONAL THINGS TO HELP YOUR DAUGHTER'S ROOM LOOK BETTER.

I CAN'T PICTURE BILL GATES GOING THROUGH LOWE'S, SHOPPING.

MELINDA: WELL, IT WAS ACTUALLY A REALLY SWEET MOMENT.

WE WERE LOOKING FOR AN EXTENSION CORD, WHICH WASN'T THE EASIEST THING TO FIND, IT TURNS OUT, AT LOWE'S.

BUT WHEN BILL GOES INTO A STORE LIKE THAT, IT'S LIKE HE'S IN A BIG LABORATORY; HE'S JUST CURIOUS ABOUT EVERYTHING.

AND SO JEN AND I KEPT HAVING TO DRAG HIM AND SAY, "COME ON, WE GOT TO FIND THE EXTENSION CORDS.

STAY FOCUSED."

AND HE MOSTLY WASN'T RECOGNIZED UNTIL WE GOT IN THE CASHIER'S LINE.

BUT, YOU KNOW, HE JUST PLAYS ALONG WITH IT, AND IT'S FINE.

DAVID: JACKIE KENNEDY ONCE FAMOUSLY SAID THAT "IF YOU "MESS UP RAISING YOUR CHILDREN, NOTHING ELSE IN LIFE REALLY MATTERS."

MELINDA: ABSOLUTELY.

DAVID: AND AS PARENTS, WE KNOW THAT THE HARDEST THING TO DO IS RAISE CHILDREN.

MELINDA: MM-HMM.

DAVID: SO YOU'VE HAD TO SHIELD THREE CHILDREN FROM THE ENORMOUS WEALTH AND PUBLICITY.

MELINDA: I HAVE TRIED WITH OUR CHILDREN TO ALWAYS-- TO FIRST HAVE THEM KNOW THAT THEY ARE LOVED-- MOST IMPORTANTLY, THEY ARE LOVED, NO MATTER WHAT-- AND THAT THEIR JOB IN LIFE IS TO FIND THEIR TALENTS, AND WHATEVER THOSE TALENTS ARE, WE WILL SUPPORT THAT AND WE-- AND IT'S UP TO THEM TO BRING THOSE TALENTS IN THE WORLD, NO MATTER WHAT THEY WANT TO BE.

I ALSO--WHEN THE CHILDREN WERE YOUNG, HAVE ALWAYS TAKEN THEM OUT, FIRST IN THE SEATTLE COMMUNITY, EVEN WHEN THEY WERE KINDERGARTEN AGE, AND THEN AT AGE-APPROPRIATE TIMES, WHEN THEY GOT TO BE ABOUT 10 OR 11, OUT INTO THE DEVELOPING WORLD, TO NOT ONLY DO A BEAUTIFUL SAFARI... DAVID: RIGHT.

MELINDA: BUT TO ACTUALLY SEE WHAT LIFE IS LIKE ON THE GROUND.

AND THE LAST THING I WILL SAY IS BECAUSE--WHEN YOU HAVE GREAT MEANS, YOU DON'T HAVE MONEY AS A BUFFER.

MY KIDS HAVE ALWAYS HAD AN ALLOWANCE, AND WE'VE ALWAYS HAD AN AGREEMENT: THEY'RE NOT ALLOWED TO TELL OTHER PEOPLE THEIR ALLOWANCE; NEITHER AM I BECAUSE SOME PEOPLE WOULD SAY, "THAT'S ALL THE GATES KIDS GET?"

ANOTHER PERSON WOULD SAY, "WHOA!

THAT'S TOO MUCH MONEY THAT THEY GET IN A WEEK."

BUT SINCE THEY WERE YOUNG, THEY'VE ALWAYS HAD AN ALLOWANCE THAT GREW OVER TIME, AND WHEN THEY WANTED SOMETHING, THEY EITHER HAD TO USE THEIR ALLOWANCE TO BUY IT OR PUT IT ON THEIR WISH LIST FOR CHRISTMAS AND HOPE THEIR GRANDPARENTS OR WE WOULD GIVE IT, AND I WOULD BE--AND I COULD SAY TO THEM, IF THEY HAD SOMETHING THEY SAW IN A STORE THEY JUST HAD TO HAVE, I'D SAY, "WELL, JUST BECAUSE I CAN DOESN'T MEAN THAT I SHOULD."

DAVID: SO WHAT WOULD YOU LIKE YOUR LEGACY TO BE ULTIMATELY, YOU AND BILL TOGETHER, FOR WHAT YOU'VE DONE ON THE FACE OF THE EARTH?

MELINDA: THAT WE HELPED OTHER PEOPLE LIFT THEMSELVES UP, TO HELP EVERYBODY ADVANCE AND SOCIETY TO ADVANCE.

AND I HOPE PEOPLE SAY ABOUT ME THAT I HELPED LIFT UP OTHER WOMEN.

DAVID: THANK YOU VERY MUCH.

AND AGAIN, IT'S A VERY GOOD BOOK AND I HIGHLY RECOMMEND IT-- "THE MOMENT OF LIFT."

THANK YOU VERY MUCH, MELINDA.

MELINDA: THANKS, DAVID.

GREAT CONVERSATION.

DAVID: THANK YOU.

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