♪ ♪ ♪ >> Lester Munson, national-security expert next on "The Chavis Chronicles."

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♪ ♪ >> We're very pleased, on this edition of "The Chavis Chronicles," to have one of our nation's foremost experts on national security.

Lester Munson, welcome to "The Chavis Chronicles."

>> Thank you, sir.

Real pleasure to be here with you.

>> So, tell us about your background.

You're originally from Chicago?

>> That's correct.

I'm originally from Chicago.

I came to Washington after college.

I worked in Congress for about 25 years.

I spent a lot of time with the House Foreign Affairs Committee, the Senate Foreign Relations Committee, various members of Congress.

I worked at the U.S. Agency for International Development.

I've spent a career in the national-security field.

I used to have a big clearance from the U.S. government, and so a lot of the stuff on the inside.

Now I'm on the outside, as a consultant, but I've spent a career in the national-security field.

>> That's great.

You have a lot of invaluable experience inside the government but now outside of the government because of your experience.

So let's talk about national security broadly.

How important to the future of the American economy, the future of our democracy, how important is national security?

>> Well, I think national security goes -- is directly related to our economy.

The United States is about 4% of the world's population, but we're about 22% of the world economy.

That means things that happen in other countries matter to our way of life.

So the U.S. needs to play a global leadership role.

We need to be working with other countries, with our allies, with our friends.

We need to worry about threats to our country because the things that happen in Ukraine, the things that happen in the Horn of Africa, the things that happen in Southeast Asia are going to impact our economy and Americans in their daily way of life.

We've seen that with the price of gas recently.

We've seen it in other ways.

The things that happen in the world matter to things -- to everyday Americans.

>> And so how does one monitor national security, and how do you interact with other governments who impinge upon the quality of life of Americans?

>> So, it's really important that our government be working diplomatically with other countries.

It's really important that our military cooperate with other countries where it's appropriate to do so.

It's important that we work with countries that are developing where their economy is maybe not as strong as ours, that we work on helping them develop their economies so they can trade with us and we can trade with them.

That's going to enhance everyone's way of life and help us all grow economically.

We've actually had terrific success on that for the past few decades.

Since the end of World War II, really, the global economy has grown.

The human living conditions have improved enormously.

We tend to forget that when we get a little focused on some of the issues in our communities and the stuff that we see in our families.

But overall, by any measure, the human condition has really improved in the last 70 or 80 years.

It's important that we focus on peace and security in the world to make sure that continues.

>> So, drama, war -- it's not good for business.

>> Correct.

>> But peace and security, international relations, cooperation between governments, it's good for business.

>> That's right.

And when it's good for business, it's good for consumers, it's good for workers.

We want to keep our prices low.

We want to make it so that our American citizens and the folks who live in our country can afford the things that they need to lead their lives, that they can pursue happiness and prosperity in a peaceful system.

And so that means the U.S. has to take a leadership role in the world.

There are other governments that are not so well-minded.

I would say, in Moscow, in Beijing, they have a different approach to governance, one that doesn't involve democracy and the rule of law.

And so we have -- we have adversaries out there.

That doesn't mean we should be at war with them, but we need to be cognizant of what their motives are in the world, and we need to be prepared to meet that -- that challenge.

>> We live in a digital age.

Some would say we live in a cyber age.

How important is cybersecurity to national security?

But also, I'm going to break it down for our listening audience.

How important is cybersecurity just for the average citizen?

But let's go to the larger question first.

How important is cybersecurity to national security?

>> Cybersecurity is very important to national security.

We have seen cyber activities, malign cyber activities, hostile activities from foreign powers.

They are measures short of war or measures that can accompany war.

Actors in Russia have attacked infrastructure here in the United States, in Ukraine, and in other places.

And by infrastructure, I mean our energy system, our energy grid, our wastewater treatment facilities, other water facilities that we have, the things that we need that are like the backbone of our economy to the extent they are connected to the Internet, and they are all connected to the Internet.

They are going to be vulnerable, possibly, to these cyber attacks from -- from actors like Russia and also China.

>> I'm not going to ask you to give away any national-security secrets of the United States, but I am going to ask you, in this cyber competition, cyber warfare, does the United States and those other countries, when they attack, are there cyber counterattacks?

>> Yeah, it is -- there's a lot of stuff going on kind of below the surface of things.

Some of it we'll see in the newspaper or on TV, but there's a lot of activity behind the scenes.

Much of it is classified.

I think Americans can be a little bit secure -- not totally secure, but a little bit secure in knowing that the U.S. government is actually fairly capable in this area.

In fact, we are the most capable country when it comes to cyber activities, particularly cyber defense.

We've got very sophisticated methods.

We've got a lot of smart people working on our behalf, and generally speaking, we're in pretty good shape.

That doesn't mean we don't have to worry about it every day, and this threat is increasing over time as we become a more connected economy and a country, and we're connected to the whole world.

Everyone's got a phone in their pocket now.

That means you're connected to the global network.

So really, everyone needs to focus on their own kind of personal information security, but the United States as a whole has to focus on securing the country, both the public sector and government and the private sector.

Our big companies need to defend themselves.

They have to take steps to make sure they're not vulnerable.

So this is -- it's really something that affects the government, companies, and individual Americans.

>> So, you mentioned that everyone -- most people -- have some kind of device, cellphone or some other device that they carry on their person.

How should the average citizen of the United States gain a greater knowledge, first, of what they need to do to protect their privacy, personal information, their own financial information.

But how do you protect oneself from a cybersecurity perspective?

>> I think there's two main things that people can do.

One is stay informed about the issues that are going on.

Check, you know, news sources, whether it's the newspaper or your local TV or Twitter -- the right parts of Twitter, not the bad parts -- and stay informed about the issues that are coming up in the security area.

So if there's a big hack of a bank or something, you should know about that.

And if you're -- if you have some relationship with that bank, take take the steps necessary to protect yourself, but stay informed, be involved in the community, be involved in news that affects your city, your state, and the country.

And the second thing is -- really kind of a practical thing is to keep your software updated.

If you've got a phone, it's got an operating system.

That operating system needs to be updated every few months or so.

Make sure you're staying on top of those updates.

>> You have to manually upgrade your software.

>> Most people have to actually take -- you know, hit the buttons themselves to update it.

You can switch that to automatic in your settings, and you can look up how to do that for your particular kind of phone.

But keeping your software updated is really important.

Most of those updates are related to cybersecurity.

Companies are constantly checking their software for vulnerabilities, and when they identify one, they send out a patch through these updates.

That fixes the problem.

But you have to update your operating software to be able to do that.

So it's really critically important that every single American who's got a phone, that they are paying attention to updating it.

And I have to remind people in my own family, "Hey, it's important that we update our phones.

You know, this new security patch just came out.

Just be aware of it."

It's just like your home.

You know, you don't leave the door unlocked when you leave.

You got to lock the door and make sure the stuff that you have that's valuable is secure.

It's the same thing with your phone -- keep it locked.

Do the right thing.

Be a good steward of the resources you have, and you're, in all likelihood, going to be just fine.

>> How often should one change their various passwords?

>> Well, I probably don't change mine as much as I should.

I think it is smart to keep it as unpredictable as possible.

Don't use words.

Don't use your birthday.

Don't use your kids' birthday.

Use something that people couldn't guess, and try to change it every so often.

Keep that information secure.

Really, almost as important as that -- maybe more important than that now -- is to use double-factor authentication when you can.

>> What is that?

>> Double-factor authentication means you're not only putting in a password, but you're working through a third party to verify that you are the person who should have access to this.

And so a lot of our financial institutions, whether it's your bank or your -- some other -- perhaps it's the company that has your mortgage, to make sure that you are who you are, they'll set up a double-factor authentication.

If they're doing that, that makes you more secure.

Don't argue with it.

Don't fight it.

It can be a little bit frustrating, and it takes a little bit longer to log in sometimes, but that double-factor authentication is very important.

>> How does one work to ensure that the citizens of each community have access to broadband, have access to digital information so that they can stay informed?

>> This is an excellent question.

There are governmental resources to -- to bridge that divide.

So, the U.S. federal government, a lot of state governments, are willing to spend money to bring broadband to people, whether they're in a rural area or in the cities or where have you or communities that are not generally having access to a lot of the prosperity that we see around us.

But people have to demand that from their rep-- from their representatives, whether it's their congressmen, their senators, their city council member.

You need to let your people know, "Hey, I know there are resources out there.

We can bring these utilities down to my community, and I want to see that here."

People need to demand that they have access to that.

There are resources out there that the U.S. government has spent plenty of money in the last couple of years because of COVID and other things, that there are resources there.

There are billions of dollars.

They need to demand that their elected representatives do the right thing for their communities and make sure that they have access to those resources.

>> What are the opportunities not only for employment but also for entrepreneurship?

>> So I think there's -- It's important people know we really have a big gap in our cyber defense capabilities.

We need more people working in the cyber defense field.

This is a growing concern.

As we discussed earlier, the threats in the cyber realm are only going to grow over time.

We can handle them.

We've got a little bit of an edge on the other actors in world.

>> But why is there a gap?

If this is so vital to the economy, so vital to the future of the nation, why -- why do we have a gap?

>> It's a great question.

There's a lot of steps that are being taken to improve our education in the STEM area, in engineering, in these places.

Frankly, a lot of the folks who are getting jobs in the United States are actually coming in from abroad.

We have immigration programs because the need is so great.

We're actually bringing in folks from outside the United States, which means there's an opportunity for folks inside the U.S. >> Because of the gap, we're bringing in people from outside the United States to get these jobs.

But wouldn't it make sense for us to invest in training people who are born here, who live here?

>> It absolutely would.

Yes, sir.

>> It seems to me to be a contradiction for something that's so vital to the future of the nation.

>> That's right.

And there is this -- this gap.

And so companies and governments have to fill that gap.

If there's not enough trained Americans, they're going to hire from elsewhere.

There's a huge opportunity for Americans to pursue that kind of education.

It can be at the community-college level.

It can be at the four-year-college level or beyond.

But jobs in the cybersecurity area are only going to grow.

This is a big sector of our economy.

It is potentially a great future for a lot of folks.

>> So you can go to a community college and get a foundation in cybersecurity.

It doesn't require a four-year-college degree.

>> Absolutely.

Absolutely.

Math.

Math matters.

Science classes matter.

Kids really should be -- You know, for the really young viewers of your show, if you're in junior high and high school, you think math doesn't matter in the real world.

It matters.

Math counts.

Math is directly related to all of these STEM programs we're talking about.

It's important you do well in geometry, algebra, on into pre-calculus and beyond.

Those are critically important skills in this economy.

And they're only going to become more valuable.

The more time you spend studying math and science, the more money you're going to make later.

>> It's my understanding studies show that young people, Generation Z, millennials, who are into gaming -- you have to think quick, make decisions.

It's my understanding they do better on the standardized tests in math and sciences area because of their competence in gaming.

From your perspective, is there an intersection between the gaming industry and cybersecurity?

>> Dr. Chavis, you know, it's a cliché to say our young people are the future, of course, but they are.

And I actually have great hope for this country.

Our kids are as wired into networks as anyone in the world.

They understand this stuff in a way that you and I don't understand it.

They've grown up with the technology.

They need to work a little bit harder in school, I would say, and focus on your math classes and your science classes and turn that instinctive understanding of technology into some practical, useful skills, knowledge, and abilities that are useful in the economy.

And really, the sky is the limit for our young people.

>> So this should be emphasized then from K through 12, not just waiting till you get to college.

>> Absolutely.

Like, the -- You can take A.P.

classes and advanced classes in high school.

Oftentimes there are joint programs between our public high schools and private schools with junior colleges and other things.

Pursuing those opportunities really make a huge difference.

You were asking about entrepreneurship.

Really, the younger you are, the more successful you're likely to be as an entrepreneur.

We're seeing kids who are 19, 20, 21 years old coming up with ideas that can make a lot of money in this environment.

So the sooner kids focus on this -- this technology and the science and math, the better they're going to do later.

I think it really does begin in high school and even earlier.

>> Most corporations today are at the national level and regional level, and they are focusing on diversity, equity, and inclusion.

From your perspective, does the cyber industry -- is the trend going in the right way?

Do you find more racial diversity, ethnic diversity by people who are getting into this field?

>> Well, I think we're making progress in the right way.

It could be faster, and it should be faster.

I think, broadly speaking, in the national-security space, I've seen a lot of steps taken to promote diversity, equity, and inclusion.

I think we can do more, and we've got to stay after it, and we've got to make sure that as folks from these communities are brought into the national-security space that they're brought along all the way through their careers, not just entry level.

You know, making sure folks have what they need, the resources they need to be effective at their jobs and get the promotions all the way up to senior management level is really critically important.

It's not just entry level.

You want to see that all the way through the career path.

I think we're starting to move in the right direction on that stuff.

In the tech sector in particular, it's been a struggle for women to break into that.

I think some of those barriers are coming down, but again, they're not coming down fast enough.

>> I was just going to ask you, I know that the tech field is seen as a white male dominated field, and for some perceptions that the door is relatively still closing rather than opening to get women and other people, particularly from people of color communities, into this very vital industry.

Are there programs to enhance the opportunities?

>> Yeah, there are increasingly government programs to promote people from different communities, and particularly women, to get into these sectors.

We're seeing a lot of the STEM focus in education and in the -- in the economy, in jobs, more focused on women.

I think we really are seeing barriers come down.

I have a daughter who's in STEM education in college right now, and she's -- she's seeing some terrific opportunities.

That gives me heart that we're moving in the right direction.

I do think, again, it's something that we need to stay after.

You can't just do it once because there's a big issue of the moment.

This needs to be sustained over years, over a generation or two, before we're really going to be probably where we want to be.

We've got to start now, and we got to keep after it.

>> We do some work and review what is going on in other parts of the world, particularly in Africa and the Caribbean.

And you mentioned China.

China is the major investor in Africa.

>> Yeah.

>> What happened to the United States?

Why aren't we, as a nation, investing in the transformation of the Caribbean economy, the African economy, the Brazilian economy?

You know, I think that, while China and Russia are seen as authoritarian, but in terms of investing in these, what was known as third-world countries, they seem to have a -- a distance ahead of the United States.

And it seems to me that's going to affect national security if the United States is not invested in these other places around the world.

What's your perspective on that?

>> Yeah, I really agree with you.

The United States, I think, actually has done a good job in a lot of places, including in sub-Saharan Africa, in promoting the rule of law, democracy, economic opportunities.

China has come in and spent its money in a different way.

And they're offering very -- >> Infrastructure, roads, housing.

>> By the way, infrastructure often built by Chinese workers.

>> Electrification.

>> And sometimes they're creating debt traps for these African governments and other governments.

Sri Lanka, you know, which is just off the coast of India, has had a real problem with Chinese investment in their country.

So some of this Chinese investment is kind of a fool's-gold approach.

And one of the things the United States has to do is offer a better alternative to African countries.

I think we need to work harder -- we probably need to devote some more resources -- and show that our way is actually going to lead to better long-term sustainable growth for these African countries.

I'm very worried about the Chinese influence in sub-Saharan Africa.

I think it's -- I think it's a bad influence.

And the money they're spending is not being spent in the right way.

We need to -- We need to do better and work more closely with our African allies and partners to make sure that they are with our approach.

>> The whole world is concerned about the continuing situation in Ukraine.

The impact on oil.

The impact on grain, on food supply for the world.

From a cybersecurity and national-security perspective, what's your take on the lessons we need to learn from Ukraine?

>> One of the lessons we learned from Ukraine is that vulnerability to foreign energy sources is not great in the long term for the United States.

While it's true we need to address climate change, we also need to address energy security at the same time.

So I think we need to have a little bit more balanced approach about reducing our carbon emissions but also being very sensible about making sure that we and our allies have access to energy resources, whether it's oil and gas or other resources, in a sensible way.

>> Renewable energy.

>> Renewable energy plays a huge role, and it should play an increasing role, but we do need to be realistic.

We're going to be relying on fossil fuels for a while.

Let's hope we do it in a way that doesn't expose us to risks in the global system.

Russia is a huge producer of energy in oil and gas.

We should not be relying on them.

Our allies in Europe should not be relying on them.

I think we're learning this the hard way.

We're seeing sky-high energy prices right now.

They may get even higher.

One of the real consequences of the Russian invasion of Ukraine, they're both food exporters.

Something like 1/3 of the global wheat supply comes out of Russia and Ukraine.

>> 1/3.

>> 1/3.

That is now at risk and that is rippling through the world agricultural and food economies.

So vulnerable nations, whether they're in the Horn of Africa or in Southeast Asia, are now seeing real problems in availability of food.

We're going to see folks more and more vulnerable.

Millions of people are going to be exposed to risk here.

The U.S. and other prospering nations are going to have to step up their contributions in food aid and in other kinds of assistance to make sure that we get through this crisis without losing too many folks.

>> But it seems to me that the issue of national security is not on the national radar, it's not on our consciousness, and that's one of the reasons why we wanted to have you on "The Chavis Chronicles," to stress how important this field of study, this field of research, and I would say this field of opportunity may be.

>> Yeah, I totally agree.

And I think it's important for folks to understand that even as we get a little focused on our own battles between different groups in our society over this, that, and the other thing, in the big picture, the U.S. role in the world is really -- is really critically important to everyone's prosperity.

Our economy depends on the U.S. being involved in Europe, in Asia, in Africa, on all of these things.

And we -- And folks need to know that, and they need to pay attention to it.

>> Lester Munson, national-security expert, thank you for joining "The Chavis Chronicles."

>> My pleasure, sir.

>> For more information about "The Chavis Chronicles" and our guests, please visit our website at TheChavisChronicles.com.

Also, follow us on Facebook, Twitter, LinkedIn, YouTube, Instagram, and TikTok.

Major funding for "The Chavis Chronicles" is provided by the following.

At Wells Fargo, we are committed to diversity and understand our responsibility in supporting and empowering diverse communities.

Diversity and inclusion is integral to the way we work.

Supporting the financial health of our diverse customers and employees is one of the many ways we remain invested in inclusion for all today, tomorrow, and in the future.

American Petroleum Institute -- through the core elements of API's Energy Excellence Program, our members are committed to accelerating safety, environmental and sustainability progress throughout the natural-gas and oil industry in the U.S. and around the world.

You can learn more at api.org/apiEnergyExcellence.

Reynolds American, dedicated to building a better tomorrow for our employees and communities.

Reynolds stands against racism and discrimination in all forms and is committed to building a more diverse and inclusive workplace.

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