- (female announcer) Production funding for Behind the Headlines is made possible in part by the WKNO Production Fund, the WKNO Endowment Fund, and by viewers, like you, thank you.

- The aquifer, the environment, and activism in Memphis, tonight on Behind the Headlines.

[intense orchestral music] I'm Eric Barnes with The Daily Memphian.

Thanks for joining us.

I am joined tonight by Sarah Houston, Executive Director of Protect Our Aquifer.

Thanks for being here again.

- Thanks for having me.

Glad to be back, and the show must go on despite the icy roads.

[chuckles] - Yes, absolutely.

Along with Bill Dries, reporter with The Daily Memphian.

To that end, Justin Pearson, from Memphis Community Against Pollution and also newly elected to the state House was gonna be here, but the ice, the roads, the weather.

But we will get Justin on in the future and talk about some of the work he's been doing on.

But we're very happy to have you here.

We were talking a little before the show.

You're not quite two years into the job as the first official executive director of Protect Our Aquifer, which was a grassroots organization, now a 501(c)(3), doing all kinds of things about the aquifer.

Most recently, we'll start with a wonky thing, but it's the important thing, you all were able to get... NASA did a big analysis, what in the fall?

Or the data came out in the fall, about where the aquifer is, it's use, recharge zones, all that.

But all that is against the backdrop of a bunch of things we'll talk to.

You know, the water crisis at Christmas.

Almost a year ago there was another water crisis during a big weather event.

The TVA decisions and all kinds of things going on with TVA.

But start with what you learned from that big analysis that NASA was involved in.

- Yeah, absolutely.

So we partnered with NASA for two phases of study.

And they have a bunch of satellites that are circulating that take in all kind of data relating to precipitation, evapotranspiration, runoff, all kinds of really cool things that we really only measure on the ground here in Memphis, in West Tennessee.

So this was a chance to see what these satellites really have to offer to get a bigger picture and not 1, 2, 3 points.

And so the big takeaways most recently, was looking at the recharge zone.

That's the area in West Tennessee.

Fayette County is closest to Shelby, where the sands in the Memphis Sand Aquifer come to the surface and rainfall directly recharges our aquifer.

And so that's really important to our long-term sustainability.

And so NASA was trying to understand you know, is recharge happening there?

Are we getting a good water balance?

Are we overdrafting the bank account?

And if you look at 2022 only, yes, we're overdrafting.

Remember, we didn't get any rain at all for the summer.

But if you look at 2019 through 2022, it looks to be about even.

And so what it really gave us is just a bunch of amazing baseline data.

But what does this area look like before development around the megasite happens and how do we keep that recharge intact and not pave over everything?

- We'll come to also to the Blue Oval, the huge facility that's one of the largest free-standing buildings, when it's done in the United States, and the impact those kinds of have.

And we'll talk about industry and all that.

But again, Protect Our Aquifer has been around as an organization or as a movement for now four or five years, something like that.

- Yeah, about six.

- About six.

What is the reception now versus when you got involved, not as a full-time person, I think you were on the board, and then as a full-time person.

Do people look at you as a kind of kooky you know, environmentalist who's just thinking about wants to protect all the water, or do you get buy-in from all the various people who are involved taking water from the aquifer in other ways, trying to manage what goes in the aquifer?

And I should also...

I am always reminded when we have these conversations, there is no one group or organization that manages the aquifer.

It is a whole lot of folks.

So what is the perception of Protect Our Aquifer now, these five, six years later?

- You know, ask anybody on the street it probably differs a little bit, you know.

But I think we really started off very grassroots in the sense of it was issue-based, you know?

First issue was you know, TVA drilling those wells across from the coal ash ponds.

And those kinda things where it's just like you know, Whack-A-Mole is what we call it.

You know, just what's coming out, what was a threat to the aquifer?

Now we're in a place where we're trying to think more proactively.

We have a patchwork of regulations, we have a patchwork of people in charge of the aquifer.

What does it really mean to be a steward of the aquifer and make sure this resource, this valuable asset to this community lasts for a long time?

So I think we have had a lot of buy-in from you know, different agencies.

We're working in West Tennessee in ways we haven't before.

You know, talking to Farm Bureau is very important to us because you know, that's gonna be a big part of what happens in West Tennessee.

MLGW, obviously.

So you know, I think if you ask different people, they probably have different perceptions of us, but.

[Sarah chuckles] - Yeah, yeah.

Bill.

- So is the goal here to eventually have some kind of regional or quasi-governmental body that does look over the water needs?

And it sounds like, "Oh, you just formed that."

It's more difficult than that because you're crossing numerous jurisdictional lines, county lines, state lines, in some case.

But is that a long-term goal to have an entity in place that does that?

- Yeah, I think long-term, absolutely.

You know, the aquifer actually touches parts of eight states.

Shelby County, we're the biggest users by far.

And that's where a lot of the problems with water quality are, right here at home.

And so it's kind of a triaging of needs.

[chuckles] And so we're really focused at home still.

Shelby County Health Department actually runs the groundwater management system here.

And as you can imagine, it's pretty small, underfunded, really not doing the whole scope of what the ordinance says.

So we really wanna see that beefed up and really taken on a whole new life that involves community and it involves people on the ground dealing with this pollution.

But on the other side of it you know, since this is a multi-county, multi-state resource you know, there are roadmaps for what other places have done.

You know, I'm from Texas, we have the Edwards Aquifer Authority.

It is a seven county, very heavily regulated aquifer.

In Texas, which you know, I think Tennessee and Texas, we've got some similarities there.

So, you know, there are roadmaps, there are frameworks out there for how to manage an aquifer of this size.

It's just about you know, doing that research and seeing what fits best here.

So short term you know, we're really looking at Shelby County and the counties surrounding us.

But in the longer term you know, I think we really do need to think big and what does this mean for the region sustainably managing the system?

- So the megasite, Blue Oval City, the Ford plant construction is about to begin.

I think they're prepping the land out there already.

How has Ford been to work with on this?

Are they accepting of the critical nature of this area in terms of the recharge area?

- Yeah, I would say you know, so far so good.

Definitely trust but verify is kind of where we're at right now.

You know, the megasite was a very bittersweet announcement for us 'cause it's like the green future, but we're not prepared for this level of growth.

Our natural resources aren't prepared for this level of growth.

But Ford is going above and beyond regulations.

You know, they're talking about green infrastructure, pervious pavers to make sure recharge can happen.

You know, they're talking about water recycling technologies, lots of air scrubbers, clean air, so I mean, they're going above and beyond.

And so we're very pleased with the tone that they have set so far.

And we've met with them multiple times.

We wanna continue to keep that conversation going.

You know, they're doing stream restorations, more credits than they have to do.

And so that's kinda the tone that we wanna see you know, industries here start to accept.

You know, what Ford's doing has been market driven, you know?

They're changing the way they're doing business because of the market and consumers, people power drive the market.

And that's something that has been so effective for us in Shelby County.

It's these people-riven movements, and industry, I think here, you know, a lot of our facilities were built '50s, '60s, '70s and old technology.

And we need to really think about water reuse and water technologies in a way we haven't here before.

And Ford is coming in and really leading by example.

- All of the data you have from NASA, all of the work that's been done in that way, do you now have everything that you need to know about what is underneath us in regards to water?

- I love that question.

No, we do not.

I think if we could wave our magic wand, I would like to have a critical aquifer recharge areas map.

Actually Washington State has a program called CARAS, and they map out where these critical recharge areas are and those are you know, incentivized for green infrastructure and land conservation.

I wish we had that.

We are just barely scratching the surface, if you will, on really what is the geology below the recharge zone because there is some clay, there's not clay in others.

You know, when you're up on a hill, water's gonna take a while to recharge.

When you're down in a valley or in a stream, water's gonna get directly in the system.

So, we got a long way to go.

And that's where University of Memphis CAESER really comes into play too because they've been studying points in the recharge zone.

And so how do we start to mesh together the information we do know to get to a point where we're protecting those sensitive areas.

- Right.

And I think the CAESER research was funded, at least in part, with a hike in the Light, Gas, and Water charges that was approved several years ago.

Is that work complete at this point or where is it in terms of progress?

- Yeah, absolutely.

So 2018 is when, or late '17, is when that water rate hike happened and it was going through June 2023.

So we are ending that five-year study soon.

There's a lot of really good information that's come out.

It's all in the form of student theses and dissertations so you gotta tease out the good stuff.

But we are learning a lot about where there are vulnerabilities in the aquifer system.

Now that study is really specific to Shelby County.

You know, since it is MLGW funded you know, it's staying in that footprint.

But we're expected to gain a lot of information and I'm hoping to get some recommendations from CAESER of how can we move some of this forward.

Especially when it comes to you know, our well field protection and making sure that our drinking water points of contact are well protected and contamination isn't getting deeper in the aquifer.

- One of the things that... You talk about contamination in the formation, I mean, the origination of Protect Our Aquifer was around TVA when they were building the new power plant down by the old Allen coal plant.

They built a new gas power plant.

Many you know, environmentalists wanted more renewables, more solar, but in general, gas cleaner than coal.

So that was good.

But now there's the remediation, there's coal ash, there are smokestacks that are coming down, maybe even have come down as this show airs 'cause we're taping Thursday morning.

What is your involvement with TVA, which it owns that old plant, and is taking it, it's shipping.

We're gonna talk to Justin about this and we will you know, eventually.

You know, what is it, a couple hundred truckloads a day of coal ash dust that's going through southwest Shelby County to a landfill?

Is TVA doing it right, are they doing it terribly, are they a partner?

I mean, where does that stand?

- Not a partner, [chuckles] I'll say that much.

Protect Our Aquifer has been involved you know, with TVA issues since our origin.

But with the coal ash move specifically, there's been multiple rounds of public comments on their environmental impact assessments, on remediation reports, on the record of decision, all these you know, big governmental reports.

You know, we've put in comments and tried to direct how they can better involve the community.

And most of those you know, concerns and requests have fallen flat.

We're not pleased with the fact that they are trucking this coal ash across Shelby County in a highly dense populated area that is predominantly black, that has already borne the brunt of burning of the coal and the air quality issues.

But we are happy that the coal ash is moving and they didn't try to cap it in place.

So you know, this is one of those extremely complex issues.

And so we've stood in solidarity with MCAP because this is their neighborhood, that they are just not happy that you know, this is a big impact.

- MCAP being Memphis Community Against Pollution.

- Yes, yes.

- Justin is a big part of, one of the founders, if not the founder.

Go ahead, sorry.

- Yes, no, absolutely.

So, that's definitely a concern on the move side of things.

But then there's the actual groundwater remediation.

So if you'll remember, below the coal ash ponds, there's the shallow aquifer, there's a breach in the clay layer and there's a direct pathway for it to get into the Memphis Sand Aquifer right by a drinking water well field.

And so there's arsenic 300 times the healthy level, there's lead, fluoride, there's all kinds of nasty stuff in there.

So TVA started a pump and treat system.

So they're, drilled some wells, pumping out the water, treating it, and discharging it.

I think it's to be seen really the extent of the plume of how much arsenic and how deep it's really gotten because they've only drilled monitoring wells around the perimeter of the coal ash ponds.

And so we really wanna make sure that they are fully characterizing how deep that contamination has traveled and ensuring that we are stopping it before it gets too deep.

- Staying with TVA, the new gas power plant that they formed, part of the, again, back to the origination story of Protect Our Aquifer is that TVA, which apparently was perfectly within their right, were just gonna drill some new wells into the aquifer and get the water for the water cooling of the new gas plant.

And side note, all kinds of businesses over the many years have done that.

There was at that time, and maybe not even now, a whole lot of regulation or limitations on businesses or individuals just drilling in their backyard or in the back of their organization.

You and others convinced them to take the water from MLGW, which gets its water from the aquifer.

But the principle was that there was more management of the water, more control, more just you know, how much water are they using.

But other people had other ideas about how they could get water not from the aquifer, even through MLGW.

And you all are advocating for that, is that correct?

- Yes, absolutely.

So, currently TVA's gas plant is fully reliant on MLGW to deliver it water.

So they're pumping from the aquifer, delivering aquifer water to TVA.

Originally, back in 2014, '15 TVA's original plan was actually to use treated wastewater from the wastewater plant that's right across the street.

And everybody thought that was a great idea.

It's water recycling, reuse technology, perfect.

But they found that that was gonna be economically infeasible and that that wasn't gonna be something that they wanted to spend money to do.

And so the cheapest and easiest thing to do is drill wells right on your property because one thing that needs to change here is that private wells in Memphis, there is no cost of that water.

You pay your $100 annual well fee and you can pump as much as you want.

So TVA was gonna be at about three to 5 million gallons a day, free water.

Now they're paying for the water from MLGW, but now we're in this really precarious situation.

And we saw this in this past Christmas water crisis where there comes a time where we have to choose energy generation, sending water to the power plant or sending water to human beings to drink.

And that was something we warned about during the power supply issue and why we wanted to advocate that TVA diversify their water source.

And so without getting too in the weeds, there's been some new regulations about wastewater discharge.

And so the wastewater is probably of higher quality than when TVA originally looked at it back in 2014.

So we're pushing MLGW you know, city of Memphis runs the wastewater treatment plan and TVA to really take a deeper look at that.

And they need to diversify their water source.

It just cannot be 100% reliant on MLGW.

- Bill.

- Is the improvement in the quality of the treated wastewater, is that because the city has basically revamped both of their treatment plants in the last few years?

- It's that coupled with a new ordinance where the industries have a higher level of pre-treatment they have to do before sending their dirty water to the wastewater plant so it's not coming to the city just full of nasty chemicals.

It's only a little bit full of nasty chemicals if they're following the ordinance.

[chuckles] - Okay.

And for someone like me who doesn't work in this every day, the tendency can be to think, "Okay, there's the water "on the surface and then there's the water below the surface, and they're really two separate things."

What happens with the Mississippi River that does affect the aquifer.

I mean there's a link between them, right?

- Yep, absolutely.

And I think that is one of the biggest travesties in our legal system is surface water is one law, groundwater is another.

And in reality, they mix and mingle all the time.

Especially when you're pumping the massive amounts of water that we pump from the aquifer, it creates a suction effect and it pulls surface water down faster.

And so that's you know, getting into the geology, we have that clay layer that separates the surface from the deeper aquifer.

And that clay layer has been our saving grace in Shelby County for 100 years of manufacturing history.

But we're getting to the point now where that pollution's been traveling deeper and deeper and it's finding these holes, these breaches in the clay layer.

And pumping at the volume we pump, is just exacerbating that and really pulling it down deeper.

And so conservation, while we're not gonna run outta water, becomes part of the conversation.

- For people you know, again, you mentioned MCAP, Memphis Community against Pollution and Justin Pearson and they really became prominent during the fight against the Plains All American and Valero Energy Corp proposed a high pressure crude oil 50-mile pipeline right over the aquifer and through neighborhoods and predominantly black Memphis.

That pipeline, excuse me, was stopped.

There's still probably lots of discussion about where that goes and what happens next.

You mentioned industry, you mentioned manufacturing.

There are people I'm sure, listening saying, "Well, what are we not supposed to..." We're still dependent on oil, we're still dependent on gas.

There's been lots of progress on solar and so on, wind.

But we are a country very dependent on that today.

Blue Oval is gonna bring jobs and economic development and tax revenue.

These other companies pay tax revenue, they employ people.

I mean, is it a choice of one or the other or not?

- I don't think it's a choice of one or the other.

I don't think that there's this intensive trade-off between you know, having a thriving economy and great businesses and good jobs and having clean water.

I think that there is a very close tie in-between the two.

You know, when I referenced Edwards Aquifer Authority in Texas you know, this is Texas we're talking about.

Like they've got a booming economy and they're regulating this aquifer to ensure that their drinking water stays clean and they have enough of it.

So I mean you know, speaking back to Ford, I mean they have gone above and beyond the technologies that they're using to ensure this very toxic process they're going to be starting is going to make sure it's not going to harm the aquifer.

Now, to be seen how it all plays out.

But I think it's really about, you know, investing in our facilities and bringing them up to 21st century and being a steward of a resource that they are so dependent on.

- Many different places I was gonna go.

I mean I was reading recently about the Colorado River.

- Oh, yeah.

- And not to go too far afield here, but it is a kinda poster child for, I am sure, at various points in time in American history, the Colorado River looked like a source of water that would never run out.

That you know, the mighty Colorado that you know, carved the Grand Canyon, all that sort of stuff.

And the fights, if people haven't followed it, the fights among the states out there who rely on that water are epic.

The water has gotten incredibly expensive and when you get to a point, a lot of the folks who analyze that issue will say they're so dependent on this water, they can't compromise, they can't find a way to compromise, you can't bring people to the table.

Is that, I mean again, back to the reception of Protect Our Aquifer now versus five, six years ago.

Is it about plan now, understand where we could be if we don't make decisions now?

- Yeah, absolutely.

You know, what's going on in the west United States and the Colorado River is very different from what we're dealing with now.

But the Colorado River Compact was formed in 1922 based on the science at the time.

So 100 years ago, this very binding legal document was drafted.

And that's what basis of all the sharing of water is on.

Here in Shelby County, West Tennessee, the greater aquifer area, we don't have any contract with nobody, we don't have any of that.

If we were to get to that point, we're dealing with brand-new level of science and information that they didn't have 100 years ago to make informed decisions on.

So you know, we're never gonna be like the west in the sense that we're gonna run out of water, we just have a very different climate than what they do and we are blessed with just water all around us.

But what we could do to better mitigate future issues in this time where we're not in crisis, come up with the best science, the best policy, the best method forward with all this new information that 100 years ago no one had access to.

- Bill, with three minutes left.

- And the state of Tennessee, Shelby County has been in court with the state of Mississippi over the very issue of who has control over the aquifer here.

And so far to date, I think we've had a pretty landmark ruling that said, "Memphis, Tennessee continues to control that source of water."

But in the future, could there be compacts like there are in Colorado, should there be compacts like that?

Because the Supreme Court ruling seemed to point toward that possibility.

It was just that the state of Mississippi wasn't interested in an agreement, they wanted the water.

- They wanted money from us, is really what they wanted.

They wanted damages.

And we're like, "You have water, you're fine."

But yes, so this was a precedent setting case in the sense that this was the first time it was over just groundwater.

And that goes back to a statement we made earlier about how laws pertain to surface water and then groundwater separately.

And so what that ruling said was that if you really wanted to talk about sharing this resource, you need to come up with a compact that's called Equitable Apportionment, which is pretty much a compact between the states.

And so that's now a Supreme Court decision that could be an option.

I don't think we are regionally at a place to really have those discussions in earnest.

But I think that's kind of where things will be headed into the future as water just becomes such a precious commodity across the world.

And I guarantee you, the west is gonna be looking towards us and saying, "They got a lot of water out there, can we pipe that out here?"

And that's when you'll really see me get involved.

[panel chuckles] That's when there might be some chains on some pipelines and things like that.

[laughs] - With just a couple minutes left, we had Doug McGowan the new, well, what 45 days, CEO of MLGW.

And has MLGW been a good partner of Protect Our Aquifer?

I mean MLGW gets a lot of that water out of there.

Doug talked at length about the amount of investment that's going into the water infrastructure to address some, if not all, of the issues of water mains and outdated equipment that broke during the recent storm.

So we had you know, water flooding, we're losing pressure, all those kinda choices that you articulated.

Is Doug specifically, and MLGW generally, been receptive to the goals that you all have?

- Yeah, I would say you know, so far so good right now.

It's an open line of communication.

It's definitely about having that dialogue, listening to each other.

You know, with the massive repairs we need, they've invested $50 million into our water system since the February 2021 storm.

So last December's storm wasn't as bad as it could have been even though we still had the boil water notice.

But we also are talking about lead line replacement, we're talking about human health too, because there are so many federal dollars coming down the pipeline.

And Memphis really needs to be coordinating with the city and the county on accessing those dollars to speed up replacement of pretty much the whole distribution system.

- And federal government.

I mean are they, should be, could be a partner in all this or what is the reception there?

With just 20 seconds.

- Yeah, really it comes down to what role we want them to play.

From us, we really want EPA more involved here on the remediation side.

We have legacy pollution that is going deeper and deeper down, we need resources here to clean that up.

- Alright.

Sarah Houston, thank you for being here.

Thank you, Bill.

And we'll get Justin Pearson back on, or on I should say, sometime in the future.

But that is all the time we have this week.

If you missed any of the show today, you can get the full video online at wkno.org or you can go to YouTube.

You can also get the full podcast of the show on The Daily Memphian site, the WKNO site, iTunes, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts.

Thanks very much and we'll see you next week.

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