- (female announcer) Production funding for Behind The Headlines is made possible in part by the WKNO Production Fund, the WKNO Endowment Fund, and by viewers like you, thank you.

- An update on the massive redesign of Tom Lee Park, tonight on Behind The Headlines.

[intense orchestral music] I'm Eric Barnes with The Daily Memphian.

Thanks for joining us.

I am joined tonight by Carol Coletta, CEO of Memphis River Park's Partnership.

How are you?

- I'm great.

- Thanks for being here again.

Along with Bill Dries, reporter with The Daily Memphian.

So, we thought it would good time to check in.

I think you're about the redesign and really kind of transformation of the park is about 40% of the way through, I think, with-- - Construction's 40% of the way.

- There we go.

- Yeah.

Target date of sometime next summer, which we'll talk about that, to get reopen.

And so let me give you just a quick 30-second thing of where we stand.

We also have some video and some, we'll orient people to this, but just give us the 30-second-plus snapshot of where things stand with the park.

- Yeah, well, we're building a magnificent civic asset on the Mississippi River.

Clearly, it will be the signature park on this magnificent river.

And it's 40% of the way through.

We're building it with almost 44% MWBE, minority- and women-owned business enterprises.

So I feel like it will be an equity, an environmental, an education, and an economic asset for Memphis.

- Yeah.

People saw some rendering and now we got some video here.

This is showing the new entrance at Vance Avenue coming down into the park, so I think that the drone is going north to south here along Riverside.

I toured it with one of your staff members recently, and as much as we have covered it and you and I have talked about this on the show, and again, the video here is going from south to north, so the back of the drone would be, I think probably right over the river, it was kinda mind blowing, actually, how elaborate it is and how much is going on.

As much as we've covered and talked about it, to be driving around and walking around in there, it is, after especially what is striking is the park prior to this was a big, very flat field.

And to have these sort of low hills and these various areas, and again, it's kinda sketched out.

I mean, right there you can see where it'll be a big civic plaza.

You can see maybe some fountains goin' in, I'm gonna mess this up, but the walks, the hills, a smattering of trees that have been put in it, it feels very much, even in this construction phase, like an entirely different place.

- You're not the only one to say that.

The two comments I think we've had most from the people who have toured the park are A: they can't believe the scope.

They say, "I didn't realize how big this was."

Even for people who've walked the park many times, "I can't believe the scope."

And the other thing that's interesting is, "I can't believe how much thought has been put into it."

So I think people don't recognize.

I mean, when they think of a park, they think, oh, it's going to be a playground, and maybe there'll be a walking path, and there'll be some new trees.

But when people see what's being built, they are so excited because they just had no idea of the number of assets, the number of opportunities there will be in the park to have a great time, to relate to others, to just experience community in a beautiful way.

- Let me bring in Bill.

- Just about every day, maybe every other day in some cases, I go to Butler Park, which is right around the corner from our offices, just to have a look at how this is all working.

And one of the things is that you can see trees now in a park that was once famous for having no trees in it.

Which is one of the reasons that it has worked so well for the Beale Street Music Festival, is just the flatness, the absence of trees.

So as the trees start to fill in, is there a person from Memphis in May standing right next to the crane where those trees are gonna go, worrying about the sightline?

How does the placement of the trees work in that regard?

- Good question.

If we had not had a mediation agreement that was negotiated by the mayor and Doug McGowan for the COO of the city with Memphis in May and Memphis River Parks Partnership, we could never have designed the park to meet the criteria for the two festivals that Memphis in May produces under its banner.

Not only Music Fest, but also Barbecue.

So we don't, they don't need to be standing there because we know what the requirements are.

We know what the lawn requirements are, the linear feet, we know where the backstage needs to be and how much pavement there needs to be, what electrical requirements are, how you get from Riverside Drive into the park with heavy equipment.

We know all of that.

And that was all specified in the mediation agreement.

That's why it took us so long to, I think, get to the mediation, to get that resolved.

If you remember, it was a six-month process after the park had been designed and then sort of redesigned at times to say, well, will this work, will this work?

So we've recognized in the end, it's not, we can't design the festival.

We're not festival designers.

They needed to provide specifications for their use, and then we could design around those specifications.

And that's, Bill, what happened.

- People have also said, "Oh, the basketball courts are going in," because they see the concrete slabs that are at the center of the park.

Those aren't basketball courts, although they could be used for that, right?

- Correct.

They are, though, basketball size.

Memphians love their basketball.

So there's the center of the civic canopy is the size of a full sized basketball court.

Then there are two ends to that that are each half sized basketball court sizes.

But you're right.

And we will have basketball goals, by the way, that are removable just as we've had in the past.

So the exciting thing is we can use it for basketball, but we can use it for a whole lot more.

And that's what, that's exactly what we expect to do.

It's going to be a phenomenal structure.

We've had the first pieces of the roof.

It's 20,000 square feet under roof, but open air.

And there'll be these beautiful swings at, you know, facing the river that are in the steel structures.

You'll have, it's all accessible, very exciting.

And it's right in the center of the park, which is the busiest part of the park.

That's where the food and beverage, the playground, the fitness area, the restrooms, you know, all the things you need.

There's a food truck plaza, so all of the things you need, you know, to have a lot of activity will be concentrated in that center area right off the Huling entrance.

And so I think that it will be a very active place, both for civic events, for recreation and also we hope, some rentals.

- Okay.

- And it may be possible, now that we talked through some of these things, we might be able to run through the renderings again, and the video again, as we just continue to talk, if not, that's fine.

With Memphis in May, the mediation, I mean, where are you in terms of the Beale Street Music Fest and Barbecue Fest were all done at the Fairgrounds this year.

They, I think, at least if on the concert on the Beale Street Music Fest, maybe it was the whole thing, they lost a lot of money.

It was a record loss for them.

I've heard lots of things about that.

Some was, "Well that's 'cause they weren't able to be in Tom Lee Park," other people, "That's 'cause we're coming off COVID," other people, "Because they just mismanaged."

I don't know and we don't necessarily have to debate that.

We can try to get Memphis in May folks on to talk about where they are.

But when will they get back in and how will that, I mean, the details, again, when I toured of how the place is set up and how trucks can in and out is, is really kind of remarkable actually.

I mean, it is just the detail about that, but when will they be back in and will the Barbecue Fest and Music Fest be in the park next year?

- Well, let me say this.

I think because the park has historically been so devoid of any features, any creature comforts, the only way Memphians could think about the park was in terms of Memphis in May, right?

Because otherwise it didn't feel much like a park.

Now, you know, what we have endeavored to do with the help of the mediation agreement is to develop a park that is a gorgeous park, that functions 365 days for Memphians and visitors, but also accommodates a festival like a Memphis in May and Memphis in May was helpful in providing those specs to do that.

In 2000--, I mean, all of our construction is outdoors.

So you know how rainy this past winter was, we lost a number of days to rain.

We don't know what will happen next year because we have another year of construction.

So essentially what will happen is we have said and the mayor has said, in 2023, we will make the park available to Memphis in May for its festival, its two weekend festivals.

We will also have a grand opening of the park in 2023.

It's just they won't be at the same time.

So, because we will not be fully complete with the park by the time Memphis in May needs the festival.

We have told, our board met with their board.

They've had that conversation.

We've been as transparent as we can be about what we can deliver.

So the good news I think is that both can happen.

Both will happen.

We will offer the park for the festival and we will have a grand opening in summer '23.

- And again, we'll bring the renderings up, I think now, and you can kind of see what, you know, it used to be a big flat field.

But you can see those three-ish, I think it's three green spaces.

Those are, in part, the three areas where if you've ever been to Music Fest, you would be in those.

Barbecue Fest would be in one or all of those three big green spaces.

I don't--?

- All three, all three is the anticipation.

But again, that's, that's not our move to make.

- Yeah, yeah, yeah.

But in the, that was the long term design just to orient people to the rendering.

Okay.

- Yep.

- Another thing, you know, there are people thrilled about the park and thrilled about the renderings.

And there are people who are worried about it and worried about the change.

One thing, and Bill brought up the trees, that I've heard, the trees and the hills, and I brought it up too, this kind of sculpting of the place.

So you've heard it, you've seen it.

People say, "Well, now you can't see the river when you ride or drive by down Riverside."

And then the other one is when all those trees goes in, it's hundreds, thousand trees, it's gonna start blocking the view of the river for neighbors, from the bluff walk, from anyone on the road.

Your response to that.

- That's a concern that is really, I understand the concern.

It shouldn't be a concern.

And I think it will be relieved once people see the trees go in.

The sculpture of the landscape, the hills, are there.

They serve a purpose.

They're not just for pretty design and, "Oh, here's another view of the river."

It does that.

But if you think about traffic on Riverside Drive, four lanes, very fast.

A lot of people trying to connect from I-55 to I-40.

What happens is you need the noise dampening.

Mostly you need the safety.

You look where the hills are, the playground.

You're not gonna have, you can't have kids playing on a playground right next to speeding traffic.

You can't do it.

It will be unsafe and miserable.

So, and the same, thing's true with art.

It occurs also at the artwork.

So the places where you want the park to ensure that it's quieter, it feels safer, will be, that's where the hills are.

And I think what they do when you.... And the view sheds, and we've looked at this in great detail.

In fact, we've checked the design team on this, the view sheds from the bluff, from the homes, from the bluff and from Riverside Drive are absolutely preserved, they're just framed.

It's not as if you have, I mean, you used to have a 180, right?

There was nothing in your way.

But framed views are actually, in many ways, as you know, more pleasant.

- Other than Memphis in May, how many, roughly, how many visitors a year to the park in the past?

- Well.

- In the 11 months of the year or 10 months?

- We don't know what, I will... What we do know though, is that once River Garden, the beautiful little park that was converted from Jeff Davis Park, which also is pretty much devoid of features except some great trees, when we converted it to what it is now, River Garden, we would have 15 and 20 times the number of people in that space than we would in Tom Lee Park.

- And do you expect that in the bulk of the park?

I mean, a 10 to 15 to 20 times increase?

- At least.

- Yeah, Bill.

- As we've talked about the park landscape and how it's changed, there's another change, another reorientation for people using the park who are used to mostly coming in from Beale Street, walk, crossing Riverside at Beale Street.

The whole goal here is that people will come in from the bluff top parks, Huling, Butler, and Vance, in those areas.

Do you think people are waking up to that or are kind of discovering that reorientation into the park from the top of the bluff?

- That's a really good question.

First of all, I don't believe that the north entrance to the park, you know, from Beale, because consider, we're also redoing the cobblestones right now and we have River Garden on the other end.

So I think what's going to happen is people will continue to come in from the north, but they will also have those, the beautiful cut bank bluff first accessible, ADA accessible way to get from the bluff to the banks.

- That rendering is up-side.

Sorry to interrupt you right there.

You can see, and that's pretty well done.

It's not all grown in, but you can see if you drive by, walk by.

- And the lights just went in this week, which we're really excited about.

In fact, some stone benches have gone in.

And this is going to all green up.

- Yeah.

- That is an important entrance because of the accessibility.

I live on Union Avenue and I, you know, I had some medical issues recently and I'd get halfway up my block and think, "I gotta stop and take a rest."

And so it's really nice to have the ADA accessible, And then there's parking all over downtown, especially nights and weekends when people are looking for it to go to the park.

Early morning, you know, and weekends.

So it's really important to be able to access the park from the parking that already exists all over downtown, use that parking, you know, heavily.

It makes everything work and it makes it a downtown.

I mean, it's funny when people talk about, "Oh, we don't have enough parking right at the door."

And you're thinking, "Well, if you have a lot, too much parking at the door."

We've had that, that was in '68, '70, '71, '72.

Downtown doesn't really feel like a downtown if you've got surface parking all over it.

Nobody says that's a good downtown.

So finding a way to use the existing parking and then get the connectivity.

We still though, Bill, have to work on the connectivity.

I mean, that is, and when I say that, what I mean is right off the bluff going east, you've gotta make sure the sidewalks exist, you know, the railroad crossings are good.

- Up above the bluff.

- Up above the bluff, yeah.

- That's not your control.

- It's not my control, but we're certainly advocating for it because that's one thing I think Memphis has frequently not gotten quite right, Eric, is the connectivity.

It's like, we get a lot of stranded assets that I think is one of the great things about, like the Green Line and all of the connectivity that's being built.

And, you know, we need to be joined up as a community.

- Well, and in fact, Doug McGowan, the city's Chief Operating Officer, was talking to Council members several weeks ago.

And as part of the discussion, he talked about the cobblestones, which that work is underway as we speak, too.

And he didn't dwell on this a lot, but are there, are there going to be some parking spaces at that area where the cobblestones meet Tom Lee Park at Beale Street Landing?

- Doug has told the Council there would be.

And, you know, that certainly is up to the city.

But, you know, it's interesting, again, as someone who lives downtown for 45 years, you have to be careful about how you provide parking and whether you charge for it, when you charge for it, how long people can stay, because you get, there are unintended consequences.

But parking is anticipated based on Chief McGowan's comments on the south end of the cobblestones.

And you're right, that's, directly adjacent to Beale Street Landing and Tom Lee Park.

- It sounds like there are still some details to be worked out on that.

- Well, those are details that Doug will work out.

- Okay, okay.

- A couple things, with this big park, the other thing, and just all the amenities we're talking about and the kind of complexity, and again, I talked about people can kind of see it in the video and the renderings, but also having gone through it, and it's everything you said, like it's so much bigger, it's so much more complicated, it's just, there's more to it.

So there's gonna be a huge amount of expense associated with that, right?

I mean, the upkeep of that, the upkeep of the park will go up, I would assume dramatically.

It's a free and open park, and I say this as someone who used to be on the board of the Overton Park Conservancy, it's always a challenge When your mission is to maintain a clean, inviting, safe, free, and open park.

It's really hard to pay for those things.

This is even more elaborate than, it may not be as big as Overton Park, but it's more elaborate it seems just to the person walking and riding through there.

How are you gonna pay for it all?

- Well, let me first say we take care of 250 acres of riverfront every day.

Some of which is flood plain, I mean, some of which is on bluffs that are tough to maintain.

So I say that in that unlike Overton Park Conservancy or Shelby Farms Conservancy, when they were first formed, we've been taking care of riverfront for 20-plus years, city-built assets that we then operate and manage.

There will be an increase in cost, but the good news is we have, you know, we also have a team.

We also have equipment.

We have a lot of things that will allow us to do that.

We've just brought on a landscape architect who will manage, help us manage the sustainable landscaping.

And, of course, the contractor, you know, takes care of it for the first two years.

So it also gives us a chance to understand how to operate it.

The good news is the revenues that we receive, for instance, from docking fees, continue to rise.

And with the mayor's plan to increase the size of the Beale Street Landing dock and add a more formal dock at Greenbelt, that will allow us to accommodate the increasing numbers.

So that's an earned revenue stream for us that will allow us to do that work.

- Over and above the maintenance of the docks and the work to get stuff on.

- Yes.

- Roughly how many boats are coming in now and what, it's gonna double over the next couple years, right?

- It will, and we've got one new cruise line coming in the summer, Viking.

- Okay, but it's about 10 a year now, or is it more than that?

- 10?

- How many is it?

I really don't know.

- It's about 64 for the last-- - Like I said, 64.

- No, no, the last six months.

- That's what I said.

- So yeah, right.

So I mean, they are significant and there's hardly a summer day-- - It's 64 overnight?

Boats?

- Yeah.

- I had no idea.

- And they're there all the time.

- Yeah, I shouldn't have said 10, but I really had no idea it was 64.

- Well, that's half a year.

- That's half a year?

- Yeah, so that's not an annualized figure.

So that's January to June.

- With a few minutes left, Mud Island, the city, we talked about, the city recently made some noise about it.

There's some money that's gonna go to possibly fix the monorail.

What's the future of Mud Island and is it staying with you?

Is it staying with Memphis River Parks Partnership or is, does it need to have a separate entity running it or what's the future of Mud Island?

- It doesn't need to have a separate entity.

In fact, that's the real reason this organization was created, but that's because the city didn't know what to do with it.

The city was out of options.

It's like, I was just reading an article from 2001, Eric, that said, you know, the problem is nobody goes to Mud Island, that's 2001.

These are not new problems, they are 40-year... Mud Island opened 40 years ago last week.

So, and for 40 years we haven't reinvested in it and the program got dated.

It was dated and it didn't attract people.

And people are very nostalgic about it.

But you also have to say, how do people behave today?

So the good news is Council and we really, and the administration working together have stepped up to provide $4 million from Accelerate Memphis and $5 million outta the CIP to do basic improvements in the deferred maintenance of Mud Island.

I mean, escalators.

elevators, the basic stuff.

None of it's sexy, but all of it's necessary.

And the Council provided, under the leadership of Councilwoman Michalyn Easter-Thomas, provided us with some money to do some visioning for Mud Island.

And we are choosing to do that visioning, not with a bunch of pretty pictures, but really looking at three or four alternative scenarios, words and numbers, that will allow us to say, how might Mud Island's future develop and what would that mean in terms of where the investment would come from, how much the public would be expected to put in, what are the public benefits, and then be able to have a starting point that is not just what Mud Island was 40 years ago.

- Two minutes, Bill.

- The expansion of the boat docks is not only at Beale Street Landing, it's also on the riverside of Mud Island on Greenbelt Park, which I believe is also part of the Partnership's responsibilities, as well.

Will that overnight cruise activity there, will that be a new source of activation for Mud Island as a whole?

Not just the river park?

- Oh, that's a good question, but the way cruise ships operate is they bring passengers on buses from hotels and load almost immediately.

I mean, they don't use the inside of Beal Street Landing, which I think was a surprise to everyone.

They load you on the boat.

When you get off the boat, they typically put you on a bus or you're getting on an Uber to go to a hotel.

So they're, and they're taking you around Memphis on the bus.

So you're going to Graceland, you're going to these features.

What we hope is that with Tom Lee Park, people will want to stay longer in the place and while they're waiting.

We think Tom Lee Park will become an attraction to the boats, which would be great.

But I don't really see that happening at Greenbelt for a lot of different reasons.

But we use, Greenbelt's very important because sometimes the water's too low to dock at Beale Street Landing, which is the reason you need that dock.

It's not preferred.

- We're out of time.

Thank you very much for being here.

You mentioned health issues.

We're glad to see you, glad you're here.

Glad you're on the right side of all that.

So thanks so much.

Thank you, Bill.

If you missed any of the show, you can get the full episode online at WKNO.org, or you can get the full podcast to the show at iTunes, Spotify, on The Daily Memphian site, wherever you get your podcasts.

Thanks very much, next week, Beverly Robertson, outgoing Chair or Head of the Chamber of Commerce.

Thanks, we'll see you then.

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