[bright upbeat music] - Hello, I'm Nido Qubein, welcome to "Side By Side."

My guest today is an award-winning author, a renowned business growth strategist, and a member of the National Speakers Association Hall of Fame.

She has helped audiences everywhere understand how the uncertainty of our economy can lead to success and significance in business and in life.

Today we'll meet Meredith Elliott Powell.

- [Announcer] Funding for "Side By Side" with Nido Qubein is made possible by... - [Narrator] We started small, just 30 people in a small town in Wisconsin.

75 years later, we employ more Americans than any other furniture brand.

But none of that would've been possible without you.

Ashley, this is home.

- [Announcer] For 60 years, The Budd Group has been a company of excellence, providing facilities services to customers, opportunities for employees, and support to our communities.

The Budd Group, great people, smart service.

- [Announcer] Coca-Cola Consolidated is honored to make and serve 300 brands and flavors locally.

Thanks to our teammates.

We are Coca-Cola Consolidated, your local bottler.

[bright rock music] [bright upbeat music] - Meredith Elliott Powell, welcome to "Side by Side."

- Thank you, I'm looking forward to being here.

- You are the president of the National Speakers Association.

What is that and what does it do?

- National Speakers Association is the premier association for speakers.

Those of us who've lived by the written word, we inspire people, and that association is designed to help people build a better business and be a better speaker.

- So how many members, where do they come from, where is it located?

- Yeah, so we're up to about 2,400 members right now, all over the world, it's an international association, most of whom are here in the United States of America.

But we just signed up a few new countries and have a big meeting coming up in Bali in about a few months.

- That's a nice place to go.

- Yes, exactly.

- And have a meeting.

And so these are professional speakers.

- These are professional speakers, people who understand how to use speaking to really inspire people, give them the information they need.

I tend to think it's a little bit of hope and inspiration.

Then truly forward thinking messaging that can really help people navigate the challenges of today's marketplace and the world in general.

- And they speak about various topics, the various organizations.

- Yeah, it's probably the most diverse organization I've ever belonged to.

I mean, you have people that are strictly motivational, people that are humorous, people more like me, who are business and content.

So everything that you can imagine that can be delivered from the stage, you will find at the National Speakers Association.

- So take us to the very beginning.

How did you get into this business?

- Yeah.

I got into this business because- - You were a banker, right?

- I was.

- Yes.

- I actually, I was involved in travel and tourism, then I was involved in healthcare, then I was involved in banking.

And what I realized was I actually got into industries when they were going through turmoil.

I got into travel and tourism after hurricane, healthcare when managed care showed up, and banking and regulation.

And I decided what I liked is when organizations were going through change.

I started out as a business strategist.

Had a lot of luck with the businesses I worked with.

Somebody tapped me on the shoulder and said, "You should become a speaker."

I didn't even know speaking was anything.

- You were more of a consultant.

- I was far more of a consultant really going in and saying, how do you blend the financial and the people side of business to make it successful?

Found the National Speakers Association and the rest was history.

- And now you're the president.

[Meredith chuckles] - That's right.

That's right.

- So Meredith, and you know, when we look at businesses today, with all the change, just in the last, what, 15 years?

- Yes.

- We've had a, the greatest recession we've had since 80 years ago.

We've had COVID, which came and disrupted our lives.

We've had supply chain issues, labor shortages.

- [Meredith] Yeah.

- Now we're dealing with some inflation and there's a lot of transformative change that's going on in our country.

So if you were to come into a company that has some of these challenges, where do you start?

What do you do?

And mostly how do you impact the outcome?

- Yeah, so I go, I get involved with organizations that, as you said, you know, we were going through COVID in places like that.

People wanted to know how to navigate change.

Now they're at a point with how do they deal with the overwhelm, because the change just seems to be getting more rampant.

And the way that I work with a company is helping them shift how they think about uncertainty.

We are programmed to think about uncertainty and change as a negative.

And I actually- - Is that because we are afraid?

- Yeah, I think it's because the unknown.

We don't know what's coming.

We worry about that.

We worry so much about it that we'll focus more on what we can't control rather than on what we can.

And I work first with mindset.

How do you begin to shift how you think, feel, and act as uncertainty if you could see it as opportunity?

Because if you study history, there's been so much innovation in the face of uncertainty, even when the uncertainty has been bad.

- Out of adversity can emerge abundance sometimes.

- Always.

Always.

And so then I go in, work on the mindset, and then we work on the strategies around that.

How do we put a strategy in place.

Convincing leadership that uncertainty is easy.

Helping every level of the organization embrace it and feel a level of control, that's where the power is for an organization.

- So you begin with some overview discussion and dialogue, and then what?

You actually do, training sessions and educational workshops to shift that?

You know, Carol Dweck.

- Yes.

- Is a professor, Stanford University.

She's been with me on this show.

And she's a delightful person.

- Yeah.

- Who's done some significant work, as you know, with growth mindset.

And she has her own opinions, pretty strong opinions about how does one shift a mindset, not just what a growth mindset versus a fixed mindset looks like, but how does one actually makes the journey from a fixed mindset to a growth mindset.

And it's scary at times.

- Yes.

- It is unpredictable at other times and with companies, what intrigues me is especially public companies.

- Yeah.

- Where the CEO or the top management are burdened by the notion that the marketplace is valuating what they're doing.

- Oh, absolutely.

- Opining about it.

It's affecting their performance, their EPS, their stock pricing and all of the rest.

How does one do that in a large company?

- Yeah, you know, it's so interesting because you're right, at a large company, they have to balance the short term and the long term growth, right?

I mean, you've got investors, you've got board members who expect results on a quarterly basis- - And regulators.

- Absolutely, you've got everybody involved.

Well, I think it's a couple of things.

I think that the most important part of a company is the middle management leadership development piece.

- Really?

Really?

- I really do.

- So it doesn't start at the top.

- Well, I think the top is there, but the people who are gonna influence the day-to-day habits are the mid-level leadership.

And it's often the part of an organization that's ignored.

I mean, you know the executive level leaders are gonna move the organization forward, but they're not involved with the people who actually have to deliver the results.

- In the front lines.

- And so much, especially in public companies as well as in government, what somebody at the top wants and what somebody at the front line needs to understand that they're going to deliver, that message can get lost if you're not developing your mid-level leaders.

You know, we talk so much about succession planning and everybody thinks of it as a C-suite level, you know, strategy.

I think it should be a culture throughout the organization that everybody should be developing the people coming behind them, much like the military do.

You know, you know that when you're in the military, you're gonna move on to the next position.

So you develop the person coming behind you because in the face of uncertainty, talent is probably the one thing you can control.

- In this day and age, talent is harder to find, easier to find?

Is it more complex, generationally speaking?

They demand more before they can command the fullness of respect or the fullness of performance.

- Yeah.

- Talk to us about how you believe generational differences affect and influence success in a business today.

- Yeah, well, you know, you talked about Carol Dweck having some pretty strong opinions around growth mindset.

I've got some pretty strong opinions around generational issues.

I don't think there are as many generational issues as we've been led to believe- - Really?

- No, I don't.

I think at the end of the day, people are people, and I think that people want to be heard.

I think they want to be listened to.

I think they want to be valued.

And I think the mistake we're making today is that we are think that we are trying to hire people for a job.

And in today's marketplace, people can find a job, that's not a problem.

Just much like I can find a college, right?

So you have to provide a different experience here at High Point.

Businesses need to provide a different experience.

And the only difference between the younger generation and my generation is the younger generation quits.

I stay and still get a paycheck, but I'm not engaged.

So as a leader, you have to create an environment that makes people feel like they're doing work that matters.

They wanna help you build that business.

So I think as leaders, again, I think we are so important in that strategy, and I think it's often a piece we leave out.

- That's a very optimistic point of view.

- Yes.

- I like hearing you say that.

And I believe that everybody has, to your comment, everybody has fears.

- Sure.

- Aspirations, goals, needs.

In that sense, we're all alike.

- [Meredith] Right.

- On the other hand though, Meredith, we are, I talk to a lot of business people who say, I'm struggling with all these people who don't work remotely.

- Right.

- They don't want to show up, they don't want to put the time in the office.

And so you see some companies now going back to outsourcing, offshoring.

- [Meredith] Right.

- And that worries me as an American.

I like to have the jobs here and the production here.

And I like for us to control our future to the extent that we can.

Where does all of that discussion with your consultation with companies about remote work, how does that affect what you believe is going on?

Especially, is it generational or is it across the board and is it a pendulum that you believe is gonna swing back or not?

- I do think it possibly is a pendulum that's going to swing back, because I think the hitch in it is I'm not sure how you develop leaders in a company when the people never come into the office.

They never have a chance to learn from their mentors and things.

So, but I think we're figuring it out.

You know, you look a lot at history.

I mean, I study history quite a bit because I think there's so much to be learned there.

And we went from the agricultural age to the industrial age.

I tend to believe we must have had these same feelings and confusion.

And it takes a few years to figure it out.

And that's where I think we are now, is figuring it out.

And certainly there are some generational issues.

I mean, you know, I grew up much like my parents would lock me outta the house at eight o'clock in the morning, have me come back at five.

And I learned things from that.

The kids don't have the advantage to learn today, because everything they do is supervised.

So some of the instruction and way you develop people needs to change.

But I think we've gone from remote working to we'll figure out what the right balance is.

I was just in Florida visiting with a client of mine who works for Chase.

And Jamie Dimon has insisted they come into the office three days a week, and she's still working in Florida, even though she lives in Chicago, she wants to be in Florida for the winter, but she's figured out how to go into the office in Florida and still have the remote advantages.

So I think we'll work our way through there, but at the end of the day, I think we're people and we're human beings and we need connection, and we need to learn from one another.

So I think that will come back.

- Well Maslow taught us that long time ago, sense of belonging.

I read a study the other day which suggested that COVID for high school students has caused such emotional disturbance.

That much of the mental health issue challenges that we see today, were a result of these years of, you know, isolation, if you will.

- Yes.

- Not interacting with people.

I wonder about little kids in kindergarten, in first grade who had to have these masks on all the time, who didn't learn how to see the teacher's face, or how to even smile and so on.

You don't know what the effects are.

It takes a long time.

- Yes.

- For us to assess the effects.

But there are areas of challenge and worry when one thinks about the evolution, the growth and nurture of future generations, of middle management, top management, and everybody else who wants to work in an enterprise.

You've worked in banking and healthcare and finance and you say people are people are people, right?

So it's the process and the product that may change.

What do you believe are the two or three drivers for people to become extraordinary?

- You know, it's interesting.

So all during COVID, I do some work for LinkedIn Learning.

And of all the courses I've done for LinkedIn Learning, the one that has sold- - What is LinkedIn Learning?

- LinkedIn Learning is an opportunity to go and do online learning.

You can do it from your desk anywhere in the world.

- It's not connected to LinkedIn.

- It is connected to LinkedIn.

It is their learning arm.

- I see.

- And they got into the area of developing courses, gosh, probably 10 to 15 years ago.

But of all the courses I've done for them, and I've done technical courses, all type of thing.

The bestselling course and the one that LinkedIn has promoted all over the world is the one for soft skills.

- Soft skills.

- So if you ask me- - I call 'em life skills.

- Yeah, very much so.

- Yeah.

- Yeah, because I do, I don't like the fact that they're called soft.

It has a connotation - They're not soft.

They're foundational.

- They're foundational.

- Yeah.

- And I think those are the skills that make somebody extraordinary.

Can you build a network and make connections?

How high is your emotional, you know, intelligence, do you have the ability to influence and impact people?

And those are the skills that I think during COVID, when we lost school, we lost- - Yes.

- Those skills.

- Yes.

- And that is the piece that I think has to come back.

- Yes.

- And that if I were going to invest in the next generation, that's where I invest in.

I think often when I go into companies, they can figure out the strategy.

They know how to put a sales process in place, but what they don't know how to do are those pieces that can't be solved with the technical.

And when I see somebody who is extraordinary, they have a high degree of those life skills.

I'll use your term.

- Yeah, almost always.

- Always.

- Almost always.

Because you can't, you can be the greatest mathematician.

- [Meredith] Yeah, absolutely.

- But if you don't know how to lead people, grow people, you will not make a good manager of other mathematicians or a leader of a company that does mathematics, et cetera.

- [Meredith] Yeah.

- You know, when I look at what drives a person in this context in business, in work, not just in for-profit business, but in any organization, what is it that drives a person?

I have my own opinions.

What do you believe drives us as human beings?

- You know, I think what drives us as human beings- - Besides the need of course for survival- - Right.

- Besides that.

- Right.

I think what drives us, I think what sparks motivation is a couple of things.

Number one is I do think it's being asked for our ideas and opinions and being in an environment that feels inclusive.

Like- - To be valued - Purpose, yes, like- - To be valued.

- You know, I'm attracted to what you're trying to do here.

That's the first piece.

I have to believe in the purpose.

But then the moment that you engage me in the process and you say, Meredith, what do you think?

What are your ideas?

I start to care.

But then I have something that I think is a little bit controversial that I think sparks, you know, drive.

And that is adversity.

I think adversity is very, very important.

And I think it is something we're removing from our society.

You know, everybody gets a trophy.

Everybody gets to graduate top of the class.

And I think in the work that I've done studying successful people, the most successful among us, you included, have pushed through adversity.

That builds confidence, that builds belief, that builds drive.

And I think it's something we need to put back in to education and in work too, all facets of life.

- You know, I'm a member of an organization called Horatio Alger Association for Distinguished Americans.

Every person is remarkable who's in their organization, has faced significant adversity, and who moved on to be an incredible human being.

Condoleezza Rice comes to mind.

- Yes.

- Grew up in Birmingham in the midst of segregated south, and became a worldwide leader on many platforms, including being the youngest ever, and the only woman and the only woman of color to be provost of Stanford University.

And I asked her that question.

What is it?

I mean, what makes you so special when there's seven and a half billion other people- - Right.

- In the world?

And almost always people will say, you know, the journey I traveled.

- [Meredith] Yes.

- Taught me some lessons that became very valuable to me as I dealt with challenges in life.

If you were engaging someone in an important position in business, one of your clients says, we want to hire some people.

Middle management, top management, doesn't matter.

What are the two or three characteristics you look for the most?

- Oh, number one is how well they communicate.

I'm really interested in how well they're able to articulate the strategy and get people to really engage and care about the strategy.

- And by communicate, you mean being eloquent, clear, concise.

What do you mean?

- Simple.

Simple, simple, simple.

Can they take the complex and make it simple?

And can they take the complex and make people care about it?

The other is, I'm really interested in how well they're versed in getting people around them that are smarter than they are.

Or at least as smart.

- Building a team.

- Building a team, and building a team that has their ego in the right place, that they want the best and the brightest, you know, the best and the brightest around them.

And then the other is that how transparent and open they're gonna be in helping people feel, definitely feel a part of the team and engaged in the process.

- Yeah.

I mean, I agree with you.

I look for three things.

I look for intelligence, energy, character.

Because if you have those, typically, you will learn the other specific skills that can guide you in life.

But as our world become more technologically founded and connected, it becomes harder, right?

- Yes.

- So if people work remotely, that creates a challenge.

Companies today are global.

That creates a challenge.

Generational difference is only one of many things.

- [Meredith] Right.

- The complexities of competition.

- Yes.

- That creates a challenge.

And yet there are more successful people today than perhaps ever in history.

So there is hope and there is optimism.

While at the same time we deal with all these, you know, not obstacles, but these challenges that we have to work our way through.

Meredith, it's a fascinating thing that you do.

You know, helping people grow and become better, impact the world in a better world.

Culture is a word you use often.

- Yes.

- And if someone says to you, I'd like to have the greatest culture in my organization, how do I do that, Meredith?

- Yeah, I really get it down to three things.

I mean, when it comes down to culture, I think you need to be very clear on your purpose, very clear on your vision, your values, what you're trying to accomplish.

I think we, I know early in my career we so undervalued how important those things are.

But in a world that is very cloudy, people want a reason to understand why they would work with you over the competition.

Why would I work here versus, you know, versus there.

So I think purpose is very important.

The second piece I do think is ownership.

How much do people get to help you build that purpose?

They get invited into it.

And then the third, you probably won't find surprising.

But I think it's accountability.

I think people want to be held accountable.

They wanna know when they're doing a good job, when they're not doing a job.

They want you to remove the people from the team who are not supporting what you're doing.

And be clear and very articulate about how you succeed in an organization.

Understanding that if I do these things, then there is a future for me in the organization.

- All makes sense?

- Yes.

- All real stuff.

So you work with companies that are mostly for profit organizations?

- [Meredith] Yes.

- And they are incented and inspected based on performance.

How is that different from being president of the National Speaker Association where you have 2,400 outspoken- - Yes.

- Communicators perhaps would rather speak more, listen less, I don't know.

They all feel like they are involved and have their own methodology for running the association.

- [Meredith] Yeah.

- How does president or chair, are you a chair or president?

- Chair, technically.

- You're a chair of the board.

The president is the employed- - Yes.

- Person.

So how do you do that?

How do you drive forth the philosophy and the objectives while at the same time making people feel like they belong?

'Cause they're paying you a membership fee as human- - Right.

- [Nido] And attending meetings and so on.

- Yeah.

You know, I think there's a couple of things.

I mean, number one, I do think you've gotta be very clear on your vision and your values and your purpose.

- But how do you get people to agree on that?

When it's a non-profit association, it's like a church, you know, it's not a business where the boss says, this is who we are, this is where we're headed.

- Right.

Well, I think it is far more difficult in the non-profit world than it is in the for-profit world.

I will give you that.

But I think if you are clear on what you're doing and what you're trying to accomplish, just like the National Speakers Association, you join to become a better speaker or to build a better business.

All the other things that people try to get you to care about or derail into, you have to say, no, this is the direction that we're headed.

And if you want to achieve these things, we're the right organization for you.

But, you know, the very first thing when you brought the question up, I was gonna say is it takes courage.

I mean, the courage to be okay if people get angry with you, that you can't fulfill a certain need that is outside of your scope.

Because the moment that the Speaker's Association tries to become too many things to too many people, we can't survive.

- Yeah.

You lose your vision, you lose your purpose, your direction gets all muddied up and all that.

It's like having children, sometimes you have to say no.

- Exactly.

And you get a little beaten up in the process.

But that's okay.

That's part of leadership.

- When you say communication is a very important ingredient for success, you don't mean just writing and speaking.

- [Meredith] No.

- What do you mean?

- I mean, you know, probably the easiest way to see it is in politicians.

Does the best politician win?

No.

It is the one who can make people feel that he or she understands them.

Whether you want to attract a customer, engage a board member, engage an employee, people need to feel that they are understood and they are heard.

And then you have the solution to their problem.

That is a gift of communication.

Now it can be taught, but that's really what I mean.

And that's why, I mean, it needs to be simple.

I mean, when you look at politicians that do that and do that well, whether you like them or not, you're gonna see their path to success.

- It's all about connecting with people, isn't it?

- [Meredith] All about connecting with people.

- Well, Meredith Elliott Powell, you certainly know how to connect and I'm delighted to have had you right here with me to learn from you and to hear your views on "Side by Side."

Thank you, and best wishes to you.

- Thank you.

- [Announcer] Funding for "Side by Side" with Nido Qubein is made possible by.

- [Narrator] We started small, just 30 people in a small town in Wisconsin.

75 years later, we employ more Americans than any other furniture brand.

But none of that would've been possible without you.

Ashley, this is home.

- [Announcer] For 60 years, The Budd Group has been a company of excellence, providing facility services to customers, opportunities for employees, and support to our communities.

The Budd Group, great people, smart service.

- [Announcer] Coca-Cola Consolidated is honored to make and serve 300 brands and flavors locally.

Thanks to our teammates.

We are Coca-Cola Consolidated.

Your local bottler.

[bright rock music]