>>> THIS IS "METROFOCUS" WITH RAFAEL P. ROMAN, JACK FORD AND JENNA FLANAGAN.

♪ >>"METROFOCUS" IS MADE POSSIBLE BY -- SUE AND EDGAR WACHENHEIM III, SYLVIA A.

AND SIMON B. POYTA PROGRAMING ENDOWMENT TO FIGHT ANTI-SEMITISM.

THE PETER G. PETERSON AND JOAN GANZ COONEY FUND.

BERNARD AND DENISE SCHWARTZ, BARBARA HOPE ZUCKERBERG, THE AMBROSE MONELL FOUNDATION AND BY -- JANET PRINDLE SEIDLER, JODY AND JOHN ARNHOLD, CHERYL AND PHILIP MILSTEIN FAMILY, JUDY AND JOSH WESTON, AND THE DR. ROBERT C. AND TINA SOHN FOUNDATION.

♪ >>> GOOD EVENING.

WELCOME TO THE "METROFOCUS."

FRONT PAGE FORECAST.

I'M JENNA FLANAGAN.

OUR WEEKLY LOOK AHEAD AT THE NATIONAL AND LOCAL HEADLINES AND THEIR POTENTIAL IMPACT ON THE TRI-STATE.

AS WE BEGIN IN MINNESOTA, WHERE ALL EYES ARE ON THE COURTROOM.

CLOSING ARGUMENTS WERE TODAY IN THE MURDER TRIAL OF DEREK CHAUVIN, THE FORMER POLICE OFFICER WHO WAS ACCUSED OF KILLING GEORGE FLOYD.

AND NOW A JURY WILL DECIDE HIS FATE.

AS THE CAOUNTRY AWAITS WORD ON THE FATE OF ANOTHER MINNESOTA POLICE OFFICER, KIM POTTER, ACCUSED IN THE SHOOTING DEATH OF 20-YEAR-OLD DAUNTE WRIGHT DURING A TRAFFIC STOP.

TONIGHT WE EXAMINE THESE TWO CASES OF POLICE FORCE THAT TURNED DEADLY, BOTH OF WHICH HAVE SPARKED NATIONAL PROTESTS AND HERE LOCALLY.

WE HAVE THE JOSEPH PINION.

WELCOME BACK TO THE SHOW.

>> THANKS SO MUCH FOR HAVING ME.

>> WE'RE ALSO JOINED BY JENNIFER RODGERS.

JENNIFER IS A FORMER FEDERAL PROSECUTOR AND ADJUNCT PROFESSOR OF LAW.

>> GOOD TO BE HERE.

>> OF COURSE, WE HAVE SANTITA JACKSON.

SHE'S THE MORNING DRIVE HOST AND PRODUCER OF THE SYNDICATED SANTITA JACKSON SHOW, WHICH AIRS ON THE LARGEST PROGRESS TALK RADIO STATION IN MINNESOTA.

WELCOME BACK TO "METROFOCUS."

>> WONDERFUL TO BE HERE.

>> FIRST OFF, JENNIFER, I WANT TO START WITH YOU, BECAUSE I WANT TO MAKE SURE THAT EVERYONE IS CLEAR ON WHAT THE CHARGES ARE THAT THE MINNESOTA JURY IS GOING TO BE WEIGHING HERE AND HOW THAT MIGHT DIFFER FROM NEW YORK STATE.

BECAUSE OF COURSE AS WE KNOW, LAWS DIFFERENT FROM STATE TO STATE.

SO WHAT MIGHT BE A CLEAR CHARGE IN NEW YORK STATE DOESN'T NECESSARILY HOLD IN MINNESOTA.

>> SO DEREK CHAUVIN IS CHARACTERED BY MINNESOTA PROSECUTORS WITH THREE DIFFERENT COUNTS, TWO MURDER COUNTS AND A MANSLAUGHTER COUNT.

MURDER IN THE SECOND DEGREE REQUIRES PROSECUTORS TO PROVE THAT DEREK CHAUVIN COMMITTED A FELONY AND A DEATH RESULTS.

THE FELONY IN THIS CASE IS ASSAULT.

IF DEREK CHAUVIN COMMITTED AN INTENS INTENTIONAL ASSAULT THAT RESULTED IN DEATH, HE WILL BE GUILTY OF MURDER TWO.

FINALLY, HE'S CHARGED WITH SECOND DEGREE MANSLAUGHTER WHICH IS CULPABLE NEGLIGENCE IN MINNESOTA.

IT REQUIRES A SHOWING OF GROSS NEGLIGENCE ON THE PART OF DEREK CHAUVIN, COMBINED WITH A KNOWN DISREGARD OF A SERIOUS RISK OF HARM OR DEATH.

THOSE ARE THE THREE CHARGES IN THE DEREK CHAUVIN TRIAL.

ONE INTERESTING THING ABOUT MINNESOTA IS IT DOESN'T HAVE A NEGLIGENT HOMICIDE STATUTE.

THAT WOULD BE THE LOWEST POSSIBLE WAY TO S SHOW MANSLAUGHTER.

NEW YORK HAS THAT KIND OF A STATUTE AND MANY STATES DO, BUT MINNESOTA DOES NOT.

THE SECOND DEGREE MANSLAUGHTER THAT DEREK CHAUVIN IS FACING IS REALLY THE LEAST CULPABLE LEVEL OF HOMICIDE THAT ANYONE CAN FACE IN MINNESOTA.

>> DO WE HAVE ANY UNDERSTANDING OF AT LEAST WHAT THE RECOMMENDED SENTENCING WOULD BE FOR THESE THREE DIFFERENT CHARGES?

>> WELL, THEY CARRY DIFFERENT MAXIMUM POSSIBLE SENTENCES.

THE MANSLAUGHTER IS A TEN-YEAR MAX.

MURDER THREE IS A 20-YEAR MAX, AND I BELIEVE MURDER TWO IS A 40-YEAR MAX, BUT IT MIGHT BE 30 YEARS.

THE JUDGE HAS DISCRETION TO SENTENCE AND WILL TAKE INTO ACCOUNT ALL OF THE FACTORS INCLUDING THE CRIME ITSELF AND THE DEFENDANT.

THE SENTENCE WON'T NECESSARILY BE THAT HIGH, BUT THAT'S WHAT THE DEFENDANT COULD POSSIBLY FACE.

>> I WANT TO MAKE SURE EVERYBODY UNDERSTOOD WHAT THE PLAYING GROUND IS IN MINNESOTA.

SANTITA, I WAS WONDERING IF YOU COULD GIVE A SENSE OF WHERE THE COMMUNITY TENSION LIES AROUND ALL OF THAT INFORMATION THAT JENNIFER JUST LAID OUT.

>> IT'S ALL AROUND, WHICH IS WHAT'S STRIKING TO ME.

I'VE HAD THE OPPORTUNITY, BEING THE MORNING DRIVE HOST OF THE LARGEST TALK RADIO STATION IN THE MINNEAPOLIS/ST.

PAUL IN THE STATE.

WHEN WE HEAR PRINCE AND TERRY LEWIS AND JIMMY JAM, IT'S BECAUSE OF HIM BECAUSE HE WOULD HOST THE TALENT SHOWS.

THAT'S WHERE JIMMY JAM AND TERRY LEWIS MET.

THERE'S A SENSE OF DESPAIR AND HOPELESSNESS ON THE GROUND.

THAT'S BEEN STRIKING.

IT'S STRIKING TO SEE THIS MINNESOTA SMILE THAT WE ARE SO ACCUSTOMED TO, THIS WONDERFUL WIDE-OPEN, MIDWESTERN COMMUNITY IS THE FOURTH WORST PLACE FOR BLACK PEOPLE TO LIVE ACCORDING TO THIS STUDY.

THE MEDIAN WHITE INCOME IS MORE THAN $80,000 A YEAR.

BLACK POVERTY IS FOUR TIMES THAT OF WHITE RESIDENTS OF MINNESOTA.

AND FOR INDIGENOUS PEOPLE IT'S WORSE.

THIS IS THE FIRST TIME THAT A POLICE OFFICER HAS BEEN INDICTED FOR ANYTHING LIKE THIS IN THE HISTORY OF THE STATE.

DEREK CHAUVIN, EVEN THOUGH WE DID NOT HEAR THIS DURING THE CASE, IT WAS KNOWN THROUGHOUT THE CITY THAT HE HAD A REALLY AWFUL RECORD WHEN IT CAME TO WORKING WITH THE COMMUNITY.

THERE WERE AT LEAST SIX INSTANCES IN WHICH HE HAD CHOKED SOMEONE THAT DIDN'T MAKE IT INTO THE TRIAL.

I GET IT, THEY WERE TRYING TO NARROW THE SCOPE.

OUR LEGAL EAGLE HERE CAN REALLY EXPLAIN THAT BETTER THAN I.

BUT THAT'S THE LEGAL SIDE.

I'M SPEAKING ABOUT GOING THROUGH THE SUITES AND INTO THE STREETS.

WHEN YOU TALK TO PEOPLE, THERE'S A LOT OF PAIN OUT THERE.

ONE GETS THE SENSE THAT NO MATTER WHAT THE VERDICT, THERE IS PAIN THAT IS THERE.

THERE IS A LIVED EXPERIENCE THAT COMPELLED A YOUNG DARNELLA FRAZIER TO PULL OUT HER PHONE, SEND HER 9-YEAR-OLD COUSIN INTO THE CUP FOODS TO GET HER OUT OF THE WAY, BECAUSE SHE SENSED SOME IMPENDING DOOM.

SHE'S THE FIRST PERSON WHO PULL OUT HER PHONE AND TURN IT INTO A CAMERA AND RECORD THE WHOLE INCIDENT, AT LEAST MORE THAN EIGHT MINUTES OF IT.

NOW WE FIND OUT IT'S 9 MINUTES, 29 SECONDS.

I HAVE TO PAINT THE PICTURE BECAUSE IT'S TALKING TO THE PEOPLE IN MINNEAPOLIS/ST.

PAUL, LISTENING ALSO TO SOME PEOPLE HOLDING OUT HOPE FOR REASONABLE DOUBT, WHICH IS VERY INTERESTING, PEOPLE WHO ARE UNWILLING TO BELIEVE THEIR EYES, THEY WANT TO BELIEVE WHAT WE HEAR.

WHAT WE SAW ON THE TAPE FROM A LOT OF DIFFERENT ANGLES, PAINFULLY, WAS GEORGE FLOYD.

FOR MANY PEOPLE WHAT WE SAW WAS AT LEAST DEREK CHAUVIN WAS RESPONSIBLE FOR HIS DEATH.

OTHER PEOPLE I'M HEARING ON THE RADIO ARE SAYING, WELL, MAYBE NOT.

THEN THERE'S SOMETHING ELSE GOING ON.

THE "NEW YORK TIMES" PUBLISHED AN ARTICLE IN WHICH THEY DID A STUDY IN WHICH THEY FOUND FROM MARCH 29th UNTIL AT LEAST SATURDAY THE 17th, ON AVERAGE THREE PERSONS A DAY HAVE DIED AT THE HANDS OF POLICE.

WE DON'T KNOW WHAT THE CULPABILITY IS, BUT WE DO KNOW THERE'S A PROBLEM.

I'M NOT SOMEONE PERSONALLY WHO'S ANTI-POLICE, BECAUSE I HAVE ENORMOUS RESPECT AND APPRECIATION FOR PEOPLE WHO RUN TOWARD TROUBLE AND NOT AWAY FROM TROUBLE.

BUT EVEN REVEREND PAT ROBERTSON HAS SAID THEY'RE LOSING CREDIBILITY IF THEY DO NOT HANDLE THEIR POWER RESPONSIBLY.

YOU RULE BY CONSENSUS TO GOVERN.

AT LEAST THAT'S WHAT HAPPENS IN THE UNITED STATES.

SO WHAT IS GOING TO HAPPEN IN THIS TRIAL AND WITH THE VERDICT IS SOMETHING THAT WE'RE ALL WONDERING.

BUT THE PEOPLE IN MINNEAPOLIS/ST.

PAUL AND BROOKLYN CENTER WHERE DAUNTE WRIGHT WAS KILLED AND THERE'S A LOT OF MISTRUST.

THAT'S WHAT'S UNSETTLING.

>> I SORT OF WANT TO BUILD ON THAT QUESTION OF MISTRUST.

JOSEPH, I'LL DIRECT THIS QUESTION TO YOU.

NOW, OF COURSE, UNFORTUNATELY, THE MURDER OF GEORGE FLOYD OR THE DEATH OF GEORGE FLOYD, I SHOULD SAY UNTIL IT IS OFFICIALLY DETERMINED TO BE MURDER, WAS FILMED.

SO EVERYONE GOT TO SEE WHAT A LOT OF AFRICAN-AMERICANS WERE TALKING ABOUT WHEN IT CAME TO TWO SEPARATE AMERICAS, TWO SEPARATE INTERACTIONS WITH THE POLICE.

AT THE SAME TIME, WHEN IT COMES TO THE JUSTICE SYSTEM, THERE CAN ALSO BE A SENSE THAT THERE'S TWO DIFFERENT JUSTICE SYSTEMS.

AND THAT WAS SORT OF HIGHLIGHTS IN EVEN A RECENT SNL SKETCH WHERE BLACK PEOPLE WERE TALKING ABOUT THE FACT THAT THEY JUST DON'T TRUST THIS WILL RESULT IN A GUILTY VERDICT.

I'M WONDERING IF YOU CAN SPEAK TO THE FACT THAT THERE IS SUCH A DEEP MISTRUST OF THE JUSTICE SYSTEM HOLDING A WHITE POLICE OFFICER ACCOUNTABLE FOR THE DEATH OF THE BLACK MAN.

>> WE TALKED ABOUT THIS A LITTLE BIT LAST WEEK, BUT I THINK WITH EACH PASSING WEEK I FEEL IT'S STRONGER, FIRMER THAT IN MANY WAYS, WHILE THE RACIAL COMPONENT OF THIS IS SO DEVASTATING, BECAUSE IT IS PART OF THAT LIVED EXPERIENCE FOR SO MANY PEOPLE OF COLOR IN THIS NATION, I THINK IT'S ALSO THE MORE IMPORTANT FOR US TO JUST TRY TO FOCUS ON THE FACTS PATTERN.

I THINK THAT THE HARD TRUTH IS THAT WHEN YOU'RE LISTENING TO SOMEBODY LIKE PAT ROBERTSON SITTING THERE TALKING ABOUT THE FACT, HOW IN THE WORLD CAN SOMEBODY MISTAKE A TASER FOR A GLOCK, SOMEBODY WHO HAS HAD THAT LEVEL OF EXPERIENCE?

ON SOME BASIC LEVEL, IT SHOULD NOT MATTER WHERETHER THE FEPOLI OFFICER WAS A WHITE FEMALE.

SOMEONE WE'VE SPENT UMPTEEN AMOUNTS OF DALOLLARS ON COULD ME THE CATASTROPHIC RESULT FOR THAT YOUNG MAN.

HIS FAMILY IS NEVER GOING TO BE ABLE TO ENJOY THE SMILE, THE MEMORIES.

WHAT COULD HAVE BEEN HAS BEEN ENDED.

IN MANY WAYS, WHEN YOU MAKE THE COMPARISON TO WHAT HAPPENED TO GEORGE FLOYD, WE KNOW HOW SHAKEN MANY PEOPLE ARE WATCHING THAT TAPE, HOW DIFFICULT IT IS TO EVEN ATTEMPT TO WATCH THAT TAPE BECAUSE WHAT HAPPENED TO GEORGE FLOYD SHOULD NOT HAPPEN TO ANYONE, ANYWHERE AT THE HANDS OF ANYONE, MUCH LESS SOMEBODY WHO IS ENDOWED WITH THE AUTHORITY OF LAW ENFORCEMENT.

LOOK, WE KNOW CONCRETELY AS THEY GO BACK AND WE SAW IN THE DAYS OF MEMPHIS, THAT YES, MORE ATTENTION GETS PAID TO THE BROKEN GLASS AND MEN STANDING AROUND WITH PLAQCARDS SAYING I M A MAN.

PEOPLE WILL DENIGRATE THE DEAD BEFORE THEY HOLD THOSE RESPONSIBLE ACCOUNTABLE FOR THE WRONG THEY HAVE DONE.

IF WE CAN GET TO THE POINT WHERE WE CAN LOOK AT WHAT DEREK CHAUVIN DID AND SAY THAT WAS A DEPRAVED INDIFFERENCE, THAT THAT WAS SOMEHOW SOMEBODY WHO ACTED IN A MANNER THAT WAS CALLOUS, THAT WAS OBVIOUSLY CRIMINAL.

IF WE CAN'T JUST SAY THAT NO PERSON WITH A BADGE SHOULD EVER BE ALLOWED TO DO THAT, MUCH LESS ANYBODY SHOULD BE ALLOWED TO DO THAT, IF WE CAN'T ESTABLISH THAT BASELINE, THEN IT REALLY SPEAKS TO A GREATER BROKENNESS IN THE HUMAN SPIRIT OF THIS NATION.

SO I THINK IN MANY WAYS PEOPLE ARE SO MAD BECAUSE OF THE LEGACY OF RACISM THAT WE'VE HAD IN THIS COUNTRY, BECAUSE OF THE CONTINUING AND ONGOING STRUGGLES WE'VE HAD TRYING TO GET THE MARGINALIZED PEOPLE THE RESPECT AND DIGNITY THAT THEY DESERVE.

I THINK IN THIS INSTANCE, IT IS AN OPPORTUNITY TO FOCUS ON DECENCY, HUMANITY AND SAY THAT IN THIS INSTANCE IF YOU STILL WANT TO EXCUSE THE INEXCUSABLE, IF YOU WANT TO LOOK AT WHAT DEREK CHAUVIN DID, IF YOU WANT TO LOOK AT SOMEBODY WHO PULLED OUT A GUN INSTEAD OF A TASER AND SAY THESE ARE EXAMPLES OF GOOD POLICE WORK, THAT THIS IS THE TYPE OF MISTAKE WE ARE WILLING TO ACCEPT FROM PEOPLE WE'VE ENDOWED WITH A GREAT AMOUNT OF TRUST BECAUSE WE KNOW HOW DIFFICULT THE JOB IS TO DO, THEN AGAIN, AS I'VE SAID BEFORE, WE ARE LOST AND THERE IS NO LAW AND ORDER.

WE JUST HAVE LAWLESSNESS AND PEOPLE ARE GOING TO START TAKING LAW AND ORDER INTO THEIR OWN HANDS.

IF THAT'S TERRIFYING TO PEOPLE, IT SHOULD BE.

>> THAT IS INDEED WHAT WE'RE SEEING.

THE PROBLEM FOR ME IS AND I CERTAINLY AGREE WITH YOU TO THAT EXTENT.

THE MISSION STATEMENT OF THE SOUTHERN LEADERSHIP MISSION COUNCIL WAS TO SAVE THE SOUL OF AMERICA.

DIDN'T SAY THE BLACK SOUL, THE SOULS OF BLACK FOLKS, DIDN'T SAY THE SOULS OF WHITE FOLKS AND BUSINESS PEOPLE ET CETERA, ET AL.

IT IS TO SAVE THE SOUL OF AMERICA.

I WISH WE COULD DERACIALIZE, BUT WE'RE NOT THAT MATURE.

THE FACT IS CLASSISM IN AMERICA HAS BEEN RACIALIZED IN PART.

IF YOU'RE MYANMAR, YOU DON'T SEE THAT.

IF YOU'RE NORTHERN IRELAND, YOU DON'T SEE THAT.

BUT IN THE UNITED STATES CLASSISM HAS A RACIALIZED COMPONENT.

LET'S DEAL WITH THE MISMANAGEMENT OF POWER.

ABSOLUTE POWER WAS CORRUPT ABSOLUTELY.

THE LOVE STAYS WHEN YOU DON'T ABUSE ME.

THE LOVE GOES WHEN YOU DO.

THE TRUST STAYS WHEN YOU TREAT ME WELL.

THE TRUST GOES WHEN YOU MISTREAT ME.

AND THAT IS WHAT WE'RE SEEING.

SO I THINK YOU'RE RIGHT.

WE ARE AT AN INFLECTION POINT.

WE ARE IN A CRISIS.

THERE'S NO QUESTION ABOUT THAT, BUT WE'VE GOT TO KEEP RACE -- MORE THAN THAT, RACE IS NOT THE PROBLEM.

RACISM IS THE PROBLEM AND PEOPLE ARE FEELING THE RACISM.

WE'RE ALL BEAUTIFUL HERE AND WE'RE ALL COMPOSED OF A LOT OF DIFFERENT RACES IF YOU JUST STEP BACK AND LOOK AT THE SCREEN.

THAT'S NOT THE PROBLEM.

I'M NOT A MISTAKE, YOU'RE NOT A MISTAKE.

WHITENESS, BLACKNESS AND EVERY COLOR IN BETWEEN SHOULD NOT BE APOLOGIZED FOR.

RACISM MUST BE FOUGHT, IT MUST BE ACKNOWLEDGED IN ORDER TO HAVE IT BE FOUGHT.

>> JENNIFER, I WANT TO GO BACK TO YOU AND JUST GET A SENSE OF -- BECAUSE BASED ON WHAT WE'VE JUST HEARD FROM SANTITA AND JOSEPH, IT'S INCREDIBLE POWERFUL.

BUT WHAT WERE YOU HEARING IN THE CLOSING ARGUMENTS, WHICH AS OF THIS TAPING ARE STILL CONTINUING, BUT WHAT ARE YOU HEARING THAT STOOD OUT TO YOU ABOUT HOW BOTH SIDES ARE ATTEMPTING TO REST THEIR CASE AND LEAVE IT WITH THE JURY?

>> I CERTAINLY WASN'T HEARING ANYTHING ABOUT RACIAL INJUSTICE, RIGHT?

WHICH IS THE WAY IT SHOULD BE IN COURT BECAUSE ANY DECISION GOING ON BASED ON RACISM AND POLITICS WOULD CERTAINLY RESULT IN A MISTRIAL RIGHT AWAY.

WE COULD TALK ON ANOTHER SHOW ABOUT SYSTEMIC RACISM WITHIN THE CRIMINAL JUSTICE SYSTEM, BUT IN TERMS OF WHAT'S HAPPENING IN THE COURTROOM HERE FOR THIS VERDICT TO STAND UP IN THE EVENT OF A CONVICTION, ALL OF THAT HAS TO BE PUT TO THE SIDE, RIGHT?

WHAT I'M HEARING IS A VERY, VERY STRONG CASE SET FORTH BY THE PROSECUTORS HERE.

THEY'VE DONE AN OUTSTANDING JOB THROUGHOUT.

THEY'RE RETURNING TO THE THEMES THEY STARTED BUILDING AT THE OUTSET OF THE TRIAL, WHICH IS THIS IS NOT A COMPLICATED CASE, BELIEVE WHAT YOU SAW ON THE VIDEOTAPE, BELIEVE YOUR OWN EYES, DON'T BE DISTRACTED BY THE ARGUMENTS, DON'T BE DISTRACTED BY WHAT THE PROSECUTOR THIS MORNING CALLED THE NONSENSE.

HE DREW A VERY EFFECTIVE ANALOGY BETWEEN COMMON SENSE AND NONSENSE.

COMMON SENSE IS WHAT THE JURORS NEED TO USE.

IT'S A SKILL THEY BRING INTO THE COURTROOM FROM THEIR DAY TO DAY LIVES.

WE ALL SAW WHAT HAPPENED TO GEORGE FLOYD.

USE YOUR COMMON SENSE.

IS IT REALLY FEASIBLE THAT HE DIED BECAUSE HE HAD SOME UNDERLYING HEART CONDITION THAT MAY HAVE KILLED HIM SOME DAY IN HIS 70s, BUT DID IT KILL HIM THAT MORNING?

IT DID NOT.

CONTINUING SOME OF THESE THEMES BETWEEN THE COMMON SENSE OF WHAT JURORS NEED TO DO BASED ON WHAT THEY'VE SEEN AND THE NONSENSE THE DEFENSE LAWYER IS USING TO TRY TO UNDERCUT THOSE ARGUMENTS HAS BEEN VERY EFFECTIVE.

>> TO THAT POINT, WE TALK ABOUT WHAT IS THE PURPOSE OF THE TRIAL.

THE PURPOSE OF THE TRIAL IS NOT TO GET RACIAL JUSTICE FOR GEORGE FLOYD.

THE PURPOSE OF THE TRIAL IS TO GET JUSTICE FOR GEORGE FLOYD.

THE PURPOSE OF THE TRIAL IS FOR US TO LAY DOWN A MARKER, TO SET A STANDARD THAT CAN BE REPLICATED TO SAY THIS TYPE OF BEHAVIOR IS UNACCEPTABLE.

SO I THINK, TO SANTITA'S POINT, YES, THE TRUST IS GONE.

IN ORDER TO COMBAT RACISM, TO DEAL WITH THE SYSTEMIC ISSUES THAT STILL PLAGUE SOCIETY, WE HAVE TO BE WILLING TO HAVE THOSE CONVERSATIONS, BUT WE ALSO HAVE TO RECOGNIZE THAT THEY ARE TWO CONVERSATIONS THAT MAY OVERLAP.

BUT THE PATHWAY, THE BLUEPRINT FOR ACHIEVING THE RACIAL JUSTICE THAT WE SEEK AND THE PATHWAY FOR ENSURING THAT WE HAVE A SYSTEM OF LAWS THAT PROTECTS PEOPLE OF ALL RACES IN MANY WAYS IS A CONVERSATION THAT WE HAVE TO UNWIND AND DISENTANGLE TO BE EFFECTIVE, BECAUSE I THINK THAT ULTIMATELY WE CAN SIT HERE AND WE CAN BECOME ANGRY OR WE CAN BE VINDICTIVE.

I THINK WE START TO LOSE THE THREAD FOR WHAT IS EFFECTIVE ADVOCACY TO ENSURE THE FACT THAT WE CAN RECOGNIZE THAT, YES, PEOPLE HAVE BEEN DEVALUED BUT ALSO AT THE SAME POINT TRYING TO RECOGNIZE THE FACT THAT THE PATHWAY TO ENSURING THAT THE LEGACY OF DEVALUATION IS ENDED STARTS WITH US BEING ABLE TO PAINT A STARK PICTURE FOR PEOPLE ABOUT WHAT IS ACCEPTABLE AND WHAT SHOULD NEVER BE ALLOWED TO HAPPEN EVER AGAIN.

>> I WANT TO GO BACK, JENNIFER, BECAUSE SOMETHING YOU SAID I THOUGHT WAS VERY INTERESTING.

THAT WAS THE PROSECUTOR'S ASSERTION THAT THIS WAS NOT A COMPLICATED CASE.

BUT FREQUENTLY WHEN THESE CASES GET BROUGHT TO TRIAL, IT IS THE JOB OF ESPECIALLY DEFENSE LAWYERS TO CREATE REASONABLE DOUBT, OF COURSE.

WE'LL BE, OF COURSE, WATCHING TO SEE WHAT HAPPENS WITH THE OTHER BROOKLYN CENTER, MINNESOTA, OFFICER, MS. POTTER TO SEE HOW THAT TRIAL PLAYS OUT IN TERMS OF THE DEATH OF DAUNTE WRIGHT.

I GUESS MY QUESTION IS IF THAT WASN'T A COMPLICATED CASE, HOW IS IT THAT THESE CASES SEEM TO END UP BEING ENTANGLED WITHIN THE LAW AND FEELING SOMEWHAT COMPLICATED WHEN SO MANY PEOPLE FREQUENTLY FEEL GOING IN THIS IS CLEAR CUT, IT'S SO OBVIOUS?

>> THAT'S WHY 90% OF CRIMINAL CASES IN THE COUNTRY PLEAD OUT, BECAUSE THEY'RE NOT THAT COMPLICATED, YOU DON'T NEED TO GO TO TRIAL.

BUT WHERE YOU HAVE A CASE LIKE THIS, APPARENTLY DEREK CHAUVIN AGREED TO PLEAD GUILTY TO A CHARGE AT THE OUTSET AND ULTIMATELY THE GOVERNMENT SAID NO, THAT THEY WANTED TO TAKE HIM TO TRIAL ON A HIGHER CHARGE.

SO THIS COULD HAVE PLEAD OUT TOO, BUT WHEN YOU'RE SOMEONE LIKE DEREK CHAUVIN, YOU'VE BEEN A POLICE OFFICER YOUR WHOLE CAREER, IT'S VERY HARD TO AGREE TO GO TO JAIL FOR A LONG TIME, SO HE'S ROLLING THE DICE AND TAKING HIS CHANCES.

WHEN THE MAJOR ISSUE IS CAUSATION, WHAT ACTUALLY CAUSED THE DEATH OF GEORGE FLOYD, THEN YOU'RE GOING TO HAVE EXPERT WITNESSES.

SO THE NEXT THING YOU KNOW, YOU'VE GOT A THREE-WEEK TRIAL WITH ALL SORTS OF EXPERTS ON THE STAND AND IT BECOMES MORE COMPLICATED THAN IT NEEDS TO BE.

THAT'S WHY PROSECUTORS WANT TO BRING IT BACK TO THE BASICS.

YOU SAW THE VIDEO, YOU SAW WHAT HAPPENED HERE, WE ALL KNOW USING OUR COMMON SENSE WHY GEORGE FLOYD DIED THAT DAY.

LET'S NOT MAKE IT MORE COMPLICATED THAN IT NEEDS TO BE.

THE DEFENSE SAYS THE OPPOSITE.

O LET'S TALK ABOUT REASONABLE DOUBT.

SO I THINK THE DEFENSE LAWYER IS DOING HIS JOB.

THAT IS WHAT HE IS TO DO, TO DEFEND HIS CLIENT WITHIN THE BOUNDS OF THE LAW.

THE PROSECUTORS HAVE DONE THEIR JOB.

NOW IT'S GOING TO BE UP TO THE JURY TO DO THEIR JOB.

IT'S SUCH A STRONG CASE FOR CONVICTION.

>> SANTITA, I WANT TO GET YOUR TAKE ON WHAT WILL BE THE CHARGES BROUGHT AGAINST KIM POTTER, THE MANSLAUGHTER CHARGE AND HOW THAT PLAYS OUT.

REGARDLESS OF WHAT HAPPENS IN THIS TRIAL, CAN THAT HAPPEN IN A FAIR ENVIRONMENT?

BECAUSE I JUST DON'T SEE HOW MINNESOTA CAN SO QUICKLY MOVE ON FROM ONE TRIAL TO ANOTHER AND HOW THAT DOESN'T FURTHER THE TENSION THAT YOU WERE TALKING ABOUT.

>> WELL, THAT PITH VOT WON'T BE EASY.

PEOPLE ARE LOOKING AT FORMER CAPTAIN POTTER'S HOME AND THEY SEE A STEEL FENCE.

THEY SEE CONCRETE BARRIERS.

THEY SEE A 24-HOUR POLICE GUARD.

THERE IS A LOT OF UPSET.

SHE'S GETTING MORE PROTECTION THAN DAUNTE GOT.

THAT'S THE PROBLEM.

THERE IS NO PIVOT, BECAUSE PEOPLE SEE THIS IN A CONTINUUM.

THEY SEE DAUNTE AND GEORGE FLOYD AND SO MANY OTHERS TO WHOM THIS HAS HAPPENED WHOSE CASE HAS NOT SEEN THE LIGHT OF DAY, NOT JUST IN MINNEAPOLIS/ST.

PAUL AND BROOKLYN CENTER, BUT ALL AROUND THE COUNTRY.

THERE IS A SENSE AS I'VE SPOKEN WITH DAUNTE WRIGHT'S BROTHER YESTERDAY ON ANOTHER SHOW, THE JESSE JACKSON SHOW.

HE SAID WE WANT JUSTICE, BUT MORE THAN THAT WE WANT ACCOUNTABILITY.

I THINK THAT'S SOMETHING WE COULD ALL LOOK AT.

I MADE JOSEPH JUMP UP, I MEAN IN A GOOD WAY.

I SAY THAT LOVINGLY TO JOSEPH AND TO OUR COUNSELOR HERE.

IT'S ONE THING TO GET JUSTICE.

CAN YOU REALLY GET IT?

THEIR EASTERS, THEIR THANKSGIVINGS, THEIR CHRISTMASES WILL NEVER BE THE SAME.

MORE THAN THAT, THEY WANT SOMEONE TO ANSWER FOR THE DEATH OF THEIR LOVED ONES.

IN THE CASE OF DAUNT WRE WRIGHTE WAS A FATHER.

HIS SON DAUNTE JUNIOR WILL NEVER GO TO A BASEBALL GAME WITH HIM.

HE'LL NEVER SHOOT THE BREEZE WITH HIM.

HIS PARENTS ARE DEVASTATED.

HIS PARENTS HAVE SAID, JUSTICE, YEAH, I WANT THAT.

BUT I WANT KIMBERLY POTTER AND PEOPLE LIKE HER TO BE ACCOUNTABLE.

I THINK THAT'S WHAT PEOPLE ARE LOOKING FOR.

JUSTICE, YOU KNOW, YOU CAN SETTLE OUT, YOU CAN GET A PAYMENT, I GET ALL OF THAT, BUT PEOPLE WANT ACCOUNTABILITY.

I THINK WHEN THERE'S ACCOUNTABILITY, WE CAN BEGIN TO SEE THESE THINGS HAPLPEN LESS AD LESS.

THERE'S GOT TO BE ACCOUNTABILITY.

THERE'S GOT TO BE A PATHWAY TO THAT.

>> WE HAVE ABOUT 30 SECONDS LEFT.

JOSEPH, I'LL GIVE YOU THE LAST WORD ON JUST YOUR CONCERNS OR HOPES OR FEARS, AGAIN, WITH KIM POTTER'S INEVITABLE TRIAL.

>> THIS WILL CONTINUE UNTIL THERE IS ACCOUNTABILITY AND PEOPLE HAVE SKIN IN THE GAME.

THE MINUTE OFFICERS ARE FEARFUL THEY WON'T BE ABLE TO SEND THEIR KIDS TO COLLEGE BECAUSE OF SOMETHING THEIR COLLEAGUE DID THAT COMPROMISED THEIR FINANCIAL WELL-BEING, WE WOULDN'T SEE THESE ANYMORE, BECAUSE WE KNOW WHAT DEREK CHAUVIN DID TO GEORGE FLOYD WAS NOT THE FIRST TIME HE WAS OUT OF LINE.

WE'VE SEEN IN STUDIES THAT 10% OF LAW ENFORCEMENT ARE RESPONSIBLE FOR UPWARDS OF 98% OF MANY OF THE BAD APPLES.

WE HAVE TO BE WILLING TO HOLD THE BAD APPLES ACCOUNTABLE OR THE ENTIRE SYSTEM IS BANKRUPT AND DEVOID OF WHAT'S REQUIRED.

>> I WANT TO THANK ALL OF MY PANEL MEMBERS.

JOSEPH PINION, JENNIFER RODGERS AND, OF COURSE, SANTITA JACKSON.

THANK YOU SO MUCH.

WE WILL BE WATCHING TO SEE WHAT COMES NEXT IN THE MURDER TRIAL OF DEREK CHAUVIN.

SO THANK YOU.

♪ >>"METROFOCUS" IS MADE POSSIBLE BY -- SUE AND EDGAR WACHENHEIM III, SYLVIA A.

AND SIMON B. POYTA PROGRAMING ENDOWMENT TO FIGHT ANTI-SEMITISM.

THE PETER G. PETERSON AND JOAN GANZ COONEY FUND.

BERNARD AND DENISE SCHWARTZ, BARBARA HOPE ZUCKERBERG, THE AMBROSE MONELL FOUNDATION AND BY -- JANET PRINDLE SEIDLER, JODY AND JOHN ARNHOLD, CHERYL AND PHILIP MILSTEIN FAMILY, JUDY AND JOSH WESTON, AND THE DR. ROBERT C. AND TINA SOHN FOUNDATION.

♪