>>> THIS IS "METROFOCUS" WITH RAFAEL PI ROMAN, JACK FORD, AND JENNA FLANAGAN.

"METROFOCUS" IS MADE POSSIBLE BY -- SUE AND EDGAR WACHENHEIM III, SYLVIA A.

AND SIMON B. POYTA PROGRAMING ENDOWMENT TO FIGHT ANTI-SEMITISM.

THE PETER G. PETERSON AND JOAN GANZ COONEY FUND.

BERNARD AND DENISE SCHWARTZ, BARBARA HOPE ZUCKERBERG, THE AMBROSE MONELL FOUNDATION, AND BY -- JANET PRINDLE SEIDLER, JODY AND JOHN ARNHOLD, CHERYL AND PHILIP MILSTEIN FAMILY, JUDY AND JOSH WESTON, DR. ROBERT C. AND TINA SOHN FOUNDATION.

>>> GOOD EVENING AND WELCOME TO "METROFOCUS."

I'M JENNA FLANAGAN.

IT WAS A BOMBSHELL ANNOUNCEMENT THAT SHOOK NEW YORK POLITICS TO ITS VERY CORE.

GOVERNOR ANDREW CUOMO ANNOUNCED HE WAS RESIGNING FROM OFFICE IN THE WAKE OF SEXUAL ASSAULT ALLEGATIONS BROUGHT AGAINST HIM BY MULTIPLE WOMEN.

HIS RESIGNATION BECOMES EFFECTIVE IN TWO WEEKS.

WHEN HE DOES STEP DOWN, IT'S LIEUTENANT GOVERNOR KATHY HOCHUL WHO WILL SUCCEED HIM, BECOMING NEW YORK'S 57th GOVERNOR AND THE FIRST WOMAN TO EVER HOLD THAT OFFICE.

SO HERE TO DISCUSS THE FALLOUT OF THIS MONUMENTAL SCANDAL, HOW THE SHAKEUP MIGHT AFFECT STATE GOVERNMENT, AND WHAT TYPE OF GOVERNOR KATHY HOCHUL MIGHT BE, IS DAN CLARK.

DAN IS THE HOST AND MANAGING EDITOR OF WMHT'S "NEW YORK NOW."

DAN, IT'S SO GREAT TO HAVE YOU ON "METROFOCUS."

>> THANK YOU FOR HAVING ME.

GREAT TO BE HERE.

>> SO THE BIG THING THAT SEEMS TO HAVE LEFT A LOT OF PEOPLE'S HEADS SCRATCHING, ASIDE FROM THE FACT THAT I THINK JUST ABOUT EVERYONE SEEMS SHOCKED, LOGICALLY THEY UNDERSTOOD WHY THE RESIGNATION HAPPENED, BUT SHOCKED THAT IT DID.

WHAT'S UP WITH THE TWO WEEKS?

WHY IS THERE -- WHY DID HE EFFECTIVELY GIVE THE PEOPLE OF NEW YORK A TWO WEEKS' NOTICE WHEN THESE NOT NECESSARILY NEEDED, REQUIRED, OR DEMANDED AT ALL?

>> SO WE DON'T REALLY KNOW.

HE HASN'T EXPLAINED THIS.

HIS AIDES HAVEN'T EXPLAINED WHY THEY NEEDED TWO WEEKS.

THE RUNNING THEORY IS THAT GOVERNOR ANDREW CUOMO IS GOING TO TRY TO WRAP UP LOOSE ENDS IN THESE NEXT TWO WEEKS.

WHETHER THAT'S WITH STAFFING, WHETHER IT'S WITH CERTAIN PRIORITIES, EXECUTIVE ORDERS, THINGS LIKE THAT.

I THINK PART OF THAT IS HE LIVES IN THE EXECUTIVE MANSION.

SO OBVIOUSLY HE HAS TO MOVE OUT, FIND A PLACE TO LIVE.

I THINK HE DIDN'T WANT IT TO END ON SUCH A BLUNT NOTE OF THE DAY OF, RESIGNING, LEAVING OFFICE, LEAVING THE MANSION, EFFECTIVELY BECOMING A PRIVATE CITIZEN WITHIN HOURS.

>> OF COURSE.

NOW, SPEAKING OF STAFFING, WE UNDERSTAND THAT LIEUTENANT GOVERNOR, SOON TO BE GOVERNOR, OR ACTING GOVERNOR?

WE CAN DISCUSS WHAT EXACTLY HER TITLE WILL BE WHEN SHE TAKES OVER.

BUT SHE HAS BEEN ACTUALLY IN TALKS ABOUT STAFFING AND WHAT CHANGES SHE MAY OR MAY NOT HAVE TO MAKE.

DO WE HAVE ANY IDEA OF HOW READY SHE WOULD BE TO HIT THE GROUND RUNNING IN THESE TWO WEEKS?

>> IT SOUNDS LIKE SHE'S VERY READY.

SHE'S BEEN HAVING CONVERSATIONS ALREADY IN THE PAST FEW WEEKS ABOUT HOW SHE WOULD CHANGE STAFFING, BOTH IN THE EXECUTIVE CHAMBER AND AT THE AGENCY LEVEL AS WELL.

IN THE EXECUTIVE CHAMBER WE DO KNOW SHE PLANS TO REPLACE AT LEAST A COUPLE OF HER COMMUNICATIONS AIDES, GIVEN THEY WERE INVOLVED IN THE RESPONSE TO THE SEXUAL HARASSMENT ALLEGATIONS.

WE DON'T KNOW WHERE SHE'S GOING TO END UP ON THE OTHER STAFFERS.

WE HAVE DFS, DEPARTMENT OF FINANCIAL SERVICES, SUPERINTENDENT LINDA LACEWELL IS STILL LEADING THAT AGENCY.

SO YOU KNOW SHE WAS REALLY DEEPLY INVOLVED IN RESPONDING TO THESE CLAIMS EVEN THOUGH SHE'S NOT REALLY A PART OF CUOMO'S TOP STAFF IN THE EXECUTIVE CHAMBER ANYMORE.

SHE REALLY HAS HER OWN JOB NOW.

IT WILL BE INTERESTING TO SEE IF KATHY HOCHUL REPLACES HER AS THE HEAD OF DFS, GIVEN SHE HAS BEEN EXTREMELY SUCCESSFUL IN THAT JOB.

SHE'S RAKED IN A LOT OF MONEY FOR THE STATE FOR VIOLATIONS.

IN TERMS OF OTHER STAFFING, WE DO HAVE STEPHANIE BENTON, ONE OF THE GOVERNOR'S TOP AIDES, ALSO INVOLVED IN TRYING TO DISTRACT PEOPLE FROM THOSE SEXUAL HARASSMENT ALLEGATIONS.

I WOULD ASSUME SHE'S GOING TO GO SINCE SHE'S A CLOSE CUOMO CONFIDANT BUT WE DON'T KNOW YET.

THAT'S SOMETHING I THINK REPORTERS ARE READY TO ASK HER AS SOON AS WE CAN TALK TO HER.

>> OF COURSE, OF COURSE.

NOW I ALSO WANT TO GET INTO I GUESS THE STATE LINE OF SUCCESSION.

THERE WAS A LITTLE BIT OF CONFUSION AS TO ONCE SHE BECOMES GOVERNOR, WHO IMMEDIATELY -- DOES SOMEBODY IMMEDIATELY BECOME LIEUTENANT GOVERNOR?

WE OF COURSE REMEMBER WITH GOVERNOR PATERSON, HIS ATTEMPTS TO CHOOSE THE LIEUTENANT GOVERNOR HE THOUGHT HE WANTED, BECAME A BIG THING.

WHAT DO WE KNOW ABOUT THE LINE OF SUCCESSION FOR STATE GOVERNMENT?

>> THIS IS INTERESTING BECAUSE IT'S NOT SOMETHING I HAD REALLY DELVED INTO BEFORE THIS WEEK.

OBVIOUSLY THE LIEUTENANT GOVERNOR WILL BECOME THE ACTING GOVERNOR.

THAT WILL BE ACTING GOVERNOR KATHY HOCHUL.

THAT LEAVES OPEN AN OPENING FOR LIEUTENANT GOVERNOR.

OF COURSE, WE DON'T KNOW WHO SHE'S GOING TO PICK.

IN THE MEANTIME, SENATE MAJORITY LEADER ANDREA STEWART COUSINS WILL ATMOSPHERE BECOME ESSENTIALLY ACTING LIEUTENANT GOVERNOR.

THE TRICK THAT IS SHE DOESN'T GAIN THAT TITLE, ALL SHE DOES IS GAIN SOME OF THE LG'S DUTIES.

WHICH WON'T BE SUCH A HEAVY LIFT BECAUSE THE SENATE MAJORITY LEADER ALREADY DOES A LOT OF WHAT THE LG DOES IN TERMS OF LAWSUITS.

IN THE SENATE SHE PROPRESIDES OVER THE SENATE AS SENATE PRESIDENT.

THE SENATE MAJORITY LEADER DOES THE SAME THING WHEN SHE'S NOT THERE.

SO I DON'T THINK IT WILL BE A HEAVY LIFT FOR HER TO STEP INTO THAT ROLE.

SHE DOES NOT TAKE AWAY HER SENATE MAJORITY LEADER TITLE, SHE STAYS AS SENATE MAJORITY LEADER.

THE ONLY INSTANCE WHERE THAT WOULD MATTER IN TERMS OF SUCCESSION WOULD BE IF KATHY HOCHUL, FOR WHATEVER REASON, HAS TO LEAVE OFFICE BEFORE SHE APPOINTS HER OWN LIEUTENANT GOVERNOR.

I MEAN, IT'S VERY UNLIKELY THAT WOULD HAPPEN.

BUT IN THE CASE OF THAT HAPPENING, THEN SENATE MAJORITY LEADER ANDREA STEWART COUSINS WOULD BECOME GOVERNOR.

AND THAT'S WHERE THE LINE OF SUCCESSION GOES.

IT GOES DOWN FROM THERE.

IT'S VERY, VERY INTERESTING.

AND THEN KATHY HOCHUL, IF SHE DOESN'T ALREADY, WILL BE ABLE TO APPOINT HER OWN LIEUTENANT GOVERNOR, WHICH WE HAVE NO IDEA WHO THAT IS.

BUT GIVEN THAT SHE'S PROBUFFALO, WE DO EXPECT IT TO BE SOMEBODY FROM THE CITY.

OR AT LEAST THE DOWNSTATE AREA.

>> OKAY.

SO WITH ALL OF THAT IN MIND, ONE OF THE OTHER QUESTIONS MIGHT BE, WHAT WOULD ALL OF THIS TRANSITION DO TO STATE GOVERNMENT?

AGAIN, AS I MENTIONED, THIS IS NOT THE FIRST TIME THAT NEW YORK HAS BEEN THROUGH THIS, IN VERY RECENT MEMORY WE HAD ANOTHER GOVERNOR RESIGN, LIEUTENANT GOVERNOR STEP UP TO THE PLATE.

I GUESS MY BIG QUESTION IS, WHAT ARE THE BIG PIECES OF STATE BUSINESS THAT MIGHT NOT HAVE BEEN GETTING THE ATTENTION THAT THEY DESERVE THAT STILL NEED TO BE ADDRESSED?

>> YEAH, KATHY HOCHUL IS WALKING INTO THIS AT A NOT SO GREAT TIME TO BE THE GOVERNOR OF THE STATE OF NEW YORK.

WE DO HAVE THE DELTA VARIANT, OF COURSE, OF THE CORONAVIRUS.

THAT'S TICKING THESE NUMBERS UP AND UP AND UP.

THE MAJORITY OF COUNTIES IN NEW YORK STATE RIGHT NOW DO FALL INTO THAT CDC GUIDELINES FOR WEARING A MASK INDOORS.

SO THAT'S NOT GOING GREAT.

THE GOVERNOR CUOMO SAID HE REALLY DOESN'T HAVE CONTROL OVER THAT ANYMORE SINCE THE LEGISLATURE TOOK AWAY HIS EMERGENCY POWERS.

HOCHUL ALSO WILL NOT HAVE THOSE POWERS, OF COURSE.

IT WILL BE INTERESTING TO SEE HOW SHE EMPLOYS THE DEPARTMENT OF HEALTH, INTERNATIONAL HEALTH EXPERTS, TO REALLY GET TO THE BOTTOM OF THAT.

IF THERE'S ANY WAY TO DECREASE THOSE NUMBERS.

THE OTHER BIG ISSUE THAT NEW YORK IS FACING RIGHT NOW, AND WE WERE TALKING ABOUT JUST A FEW WEEKS AGO, CRIME.

CRIME RATES ARE SOARING IN NEW YORK CITY AND ACROSS THE METRO AREAS OF NEW YORK STATE.

IF SHE DOES REMAIN THE ACTING GOVERNOR UNTIL THE END OF THE CURRENT TERM, WHICH IS NEXT YEAR, IT WILL BE ABSOLUTELY PIVOTAL FOR HER TO ADDRESS CRIME.

AND WHETHER HER STRATEGY IS GOING TO BE THE SAME AS GOVERNOR CUOMO'S WILL BE THE REALLY INTERESTING PART OF THIS.

GOVERNOR CUOMO A FEW WEEKS AGO WAS ANNOUNCING INITIATIVES LIKE JOBS PROGRAMS IN CITIES LIKE ALBANY, NEW YORK CITY, ROCHESTER, BUFFALO.

I DON'T KNOW IF LIEUTENANT GOVERNOR KATHY HOCHUL IS GOING TO TAKE THE SAME APPROACH.

THAT WILL BE WHAT IS GOING TO COME DOWN TO HER RESPONSE ON CRIME.

THERE ARE OBVIOUSLY A NUMBER OF OTHER ISSUES THAT ARE MULLING AROUND IN NEW YORK.

INFRASTRUCTURE.

CRIME WE MENTIONED.

THOSE ARE KIND OF SMALLER ISSUES RIGHT NOW.

WE HAVE THE INFRASTRUCTURE BILL THAT PASSED IN THE SENATE THIS WEEK, THE U.S. SENATE, THAT COULD HAVE A BIG IMPACT FOR NEW YORK STATE.

BUT AT THE TIME RIGHT NOW, I THINK SHE REALLY WILL BE FOCUSING ON THE DELTA VARIANT AND THOSE CRIME RATES.

>> OF COURSE.

NOW, I DO WANT TO ASK, BECAUSE THE STATE ASSEMBLY WAS PLANNING TO GO FORWARD WITH THE IMPEACHMENT OF GOVERNOR CUOMO.

AND HE, OF COURSE, RESIGNED.

AND THAT WILL SAVE HIM FROM A TRIAL IN THE SENATE, I BELIEVE.

BUT MIGHT THEY STILL ABOUT FORWARD WITH THIS?

BECAUSE IMPEACHMENT HAS OTHER POWERS OTHER THAN JUST FORCING SOMEONE OUT OF OFFICE.

>> RIGHT.

LEGAL EXPERTS ARE MIXED ON THIS.

WHAT WE'VE HEARD IN RECENT DAYS IS THAT THE ASSEMBLY CAN, IN FACT, GO FORWARD WITH IMPEACHMENT AND MAY ACTUALLY BE ABLE TO STILL HOLD THAT TRIAL.

WE JUST DON'T KNOW.

I'VE READ THE STATE CONSTITUTION, STATE LAWS IN THE LAST FEW DAYS.

AND IT LEAVES IT VERY VAGUE IN TERMS OF HOW THE LEGISLATURE WOULD HANDLE THIS.

OF COURSE, THE LAST IMPEACHMENT OF A GOVERNOR IN NEW YORK WAS 1913, WILLIAM SOLTZER.

WE DON'T HAVE A LOT OF PREPTS DENT SO THE LEGISLATURE IS TRYING TO BUILD ITS OWN PATH IN THEY'RE GOING TO GO FORWARD.

NOW THAT THE GOVERNOR HAS RESIGNED, WE DON'T KNOW IF ENOUGH MEMBERS ON THE JUDICIARY CAN BE WILL BE MOVING FORWARD, IT WILL COST A LOT OF MONEY FOR THE STATE, IT WILL COST EVEN MORE NOW.

THE OTHER SIDE OF THAT IS, IF THEY DROP THE IMPEACHMENT INVESTIGATION, THEY'VE ALREADY SPENT MILLIONS OF DOLLARS ON THIS.

SOME WOULD SAY THAT'S A TOTAL WASTE.

WE DON'T KNOW.

WE WILL FIND OUT THE FOLLOWING MONDAY, AUGUST 16th, I BELIEVE IT IS, WHAT THE JUDICIARY COMMITTEE DECIDES.

THEY'LL BE MEETING BEHIND CLOSED DOORS, TALK ABOUT ALL THAT.

SO HOPEFULLY WE'LL HAVE AN ANSWER THEN.

>> OF COURSE ALL OF THIS COULDN'T HAVE BETTER TIMING, GIVEN THE FACT THAT WE ARE GOING INTO A GUBERNATORIAL ELECTION YEAR IN NEW YORK STATE.

AND SO WHAT DO YOU, AT LEAST, SEE IN TERMS OF READING THE POLITICAL TEA LEAVES?

WHERE DOES THIS LEAVE NEW YORK'S DEMOCRATIC PARTY?

IS IT -- SOME PEOPLE HAVE SAID, OF COURSE THIS WOULD BE WHERE LIEUTENANT GOVERNOR JAMES MIGHT STEP IN AND RUN HERSELF, OTHER PEOPLE HAVE SAID THIS WOULD POSITION KATHY HOCHUL TO DO THE SAME.

WHAT DO WE KNOW OF WHERE THE PARTY STANDS?

>> THE PARTY HAS BEEN TALKING BEHIND CLOSED DOORS FOR AT LEAST THE LAST FEW WEEKS ABOUT WHO WOULD SUCCEED THE GOVERNOR ON THE TICKET.

AND THERE'S NO CONSENSUS RIGHT NOW AS TO WHO THAT MIGHT BE.

YOU MENTIONED TISCH JAMES, IS REALLY READY TO STEP IN IT APPEARS, SHE'S DONE A LOT OVER THE PAST YEAR IN TERMS OF DONALD TRUMP WHICH IS POLITICALLY POPULAR WITH DEMOCRATS, SHE'S GONE AFTER CRIME IN TERMS OF BUSTING UP GANGS IN CITIES, DRUGS, TRYING TO POSITION HERSELF POSSIBLY FOR A RUN FOR GOVERNOR.

OF COURSE, SHE HASN'T MENTIONED DEFINITIVELY SHE WILL RUN.

OTHER NAME, CONTROLLER DENAPOLI, WHICH I DON'T SEE AS A LIKELY CANDIDATE.

NOTHING FAILS TO SURPRISE ME IN ALBANY.

OTHER PEOPLE BEING DISCUSSED ARE LIEUTENANT GOVERNOR KATHY HOCHUL, OBVIOUSLY, IF SHE ASCENDS, AND MAY RUN AGAIN.

LONG ISLAND, PEOPLE ARE TALKING ABOUT CONGRESSMAN TOM SWAYZE AS A REPLACEMENT NOR GOVERNOR CUOMO.

HE HOLDS A LOT OF THE SAME POLITICAL VIEWS, A LOT OF THE SAME POSITIONS, BUT HE AS LITTLE FURTHER TO THE LEFT THAN THE GOVERNOR.

WE'LL SEE IF THE PARTY WOULD ACTUALLY SUPPORT HIM IN A PRIMARY PROCESS.

>> ALL RIGHT.

LISTEN, I WANT TO THANK MY GUEST TONIGHT.

DAN CLARK, WHO IS THE -- I WANT TO GET THIS TITLE CORRECT -- HOST AND MANAGING EDITOR OF "NEW YORK NOW."

YOU CAN SEE EVERY WEEK ON WMHT, AND OF COURSE YOU CAN STREAM ONLINE AS WELL.

DAN, THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR JOINING US AND GIVING US YOUR UNIQUE INSIGHT ON AT LEAST WHAT HAS HAPPENED IN ALBANY, AND WHAT WE CAN HOPEFULLY EXPECT GOING FORWARD.

>> OF COURSE.

ANY TIME.

HAPPY TO DO IT.

>> THANK YOU.

>>> HI, I'M JENNA FLANAGAN OF "METROFOCUS."

WHEN EPIX PREMIERED THE DRAMA SERIES "THE GODFATHER OF HARLEM," IT TOLD THE STORY OF ELLIS WORTH BUMPY JOHNSON, IT ALSO PORTRAYED A COMMUNITY PUSHING FOR SOCIAL CHANGE.

MORK'S MOST FAMOUS BLACK NEIGHBORHOOD IS KNOWN FOR ITS INNOVATIVE, SOMETIMES PROVOCATIVE, AND CONSISTENTLY GROUND-BREAKING SOCIAL SCENE.

AND IT'S FRONT AND CENTER IN A NEW DOCUMENTARY SERIES ON EPIX, TAKE A LOOK.

>> IN HARLEM, AND IN THAT TIME, THINGS WERE COMING TO A HEAD.

>> MUSIC BECAME A GUIDING FORCE.

>> IT GAVE A SENSE OF COMMUNITY.

>> WE STARTED A REVOLUTION.

>> THERE WAS A TRANSITION HAPPENING.

>> WHEN YOU LOOK AT HARLEM, THE PEOPLE, THEY WERE TRYING TO BE TREATED WITH RESPECT.

THE ONLY THING EVERYONE AGREED ON?

IT WAS TIME FOR REAL CHANGE.

>> THAT WAS JUST A CLIP OF SOME OF THE FOUR-PART DOCUSERIES "BY WHATEVER MEANS NECESSARY: THE TIMES OF THE GODFATHER OF HARLEM."

I'D LIKE TO WELCOME THE SERIES DIRECTOR AND EXECUTIVE PRODUCER, KEITH MCQUARTER, WELCOME TO THE PROGRAM.

>> THANK YOU FOR HAVING ME.

>> MUSICIAN AND VOCALIST ROBIN CLARK, FEATURED IN THE SERIES.

ROBIN, WELCOME.

>> THANK YOU.

IT'S A PLEASURE BEING HERE.

>> I'M GLAD TO HAVE YOU BOTH ON.

KEITH, I WANT TO START WITH YOU AND ASK, HOW DID THIS DOCUMENTARY COME TOGETHER?

"THE GODFATHER OF HARLEM" IS AN IMPRESSIVE SERIES ALL ON ITS OWN, BUT WHAT WAS THE INSPIRATION FOR THIS DOCUMENTARY SERIES?

>> WELL, I HAD A CONVERSATION WITH PRODUCERS OF THE SCRIPTED SERIES.

AND THEY HAD CREATED A REALLY EXCITED FAN BASE FOR THE SERIES.

AND THEY WERE GOING TO THEIR SECOND SEASON.

AND THEY WANTED TO KEEP THE FANS IN THE WORLD OF HARLEM.

AND SO I PITCHED THE IDEA OF DOING A DOCUMENTARY SERIES.

AND EXPLORING THE CULTURE AND THE POLITICS THROUGH MUSIC AS WAY TO TAKE A DEEP DIVE INTO THAT TIME PERIOD IN HARLEM.

THAT'S KIND OF HOW IT ALL CAME TOGETHER AND CAME ABOUT.

>> OKAY.

AND WHAT STRUCK ME THE MOST WAS THE FRONT AND CENTER LINK BETWEEN MUSIC AND, IF YOU WILL, POPULAR OR POP CULTURE, WHICH CAN SOMETIMES BE DISMISSED AS FRIVOLOUS.

AND THE ROLE THAT THAT PLAYED IN CREATING THE SPACE FOR SOCIAL CHANGE.

WHY WAS THAT PLACED SO FRONT AND CENTER IN THIS DOCUSERIES?

>> BECAUSE THERE IS SO MUCH TO LOOK AT WHEN IT COMES TO POPULAR MUSIC AND POLITICS.

NOT ONLY IN THE 1960s BUT TODAY.

WHAT'S GOING ON TODAY.

AND SO 2020 HAS BEEN A YEAR OF CHANGE, A YEAR -- EYE-OPENING YEAR FOR SO MANY PEOPLE ACROSS THE COUNTRY AND THE WORLD.

AND SO, YOU KNOW, TAKING A LOOK AT 1960s AS A PARALLEL WAS AN AWESOME OPPORTUNITY.

AND SO WHAT WE FOUND WAS, FOR INSTANCE, LIKE, YOU KNOW, "THE TWIST" BY CHUBBY CHECKERS IS AN INNOCENT POP SONG FOR MOST PEOPLE THAT YOU CAN DANCE TO AND IT'S FUN.

BUT THERE WAS A REAL MESSAGE IN THAT SONG.

YOU KNOW.

IT BROUGHT BLOCK CULTURE INTO WHITE HOUSE HOLDS FOR THE FIRST TIME.

AND THE WHITE TEENAGERS WERE -- TOOK ON THIS DANCE CRAZE.

AND IT WAS UNSTOPPABLE.

AND SO JAMAL JOSEPH, WHO WE INTERVIEW IN OUR SERIES, WHO IS PROFESSOR CLUNDEBUTT, BLACK PANTHER IN THE '60s, QUOTED CLEAVER, SAID THE TWIST DID MORE FOR PUSHING INTEGRATION AND CULTURE FORWARD THAN LAW, POLITICS, AND RELIGION COULD EVER DO.

THAT'S ONE EXAMPLE OF HOW POP CULTURE IS SO INTEGRATED INTO, YOU KNOW, OUR EVERYDAY LIVES THAT WE TAKE FOR GRANTED, OFTENTIMES.

>> AND AGAIN, THAT'S WHAT I FOUND TO BE SO UNIQUELY INTERESTING ABOUT THIS, THAT DOESN'T SEEM TO BE A NARRATIVE THAT WE REALLY FULLY EXPLORE.

BUT ROBIN, I WANT TO TURN TO YOU AND ASK, FIRST OFF, HOW DID YOU GET INVOLVED WITH THIS PROJECT?

>> WE GOT A PHONE CALL FROM ONE OF THE PRODUCERS OF THE SHOW.

AND I WAS ASKED TO DO IT.

MY HUSBAND WAS ACTUALLY ASKED TO DO IT.

AND I STARTED TALKING IN THE BACKGROUND.

AND THE PERSON SAID, CAN I SPEAK WITH YOUR WIFE AS WELL?

THAT'S WHY I'M HERE, THAT'S HOW I GOT HERE.

>> WELL, THEN, GIVEN YOUR PERSPECTIVE, I'M WONDERING IF, THROUGH YOUR PARTICIPATION IN THIS AND EVEN SOME OF THE POINTS THAT KEITH WAS MAKING, DID IT CHANGE THE WAY THAT YOU LOOKED AT THE ROLE YOUR CAREER PLAYED IN A LARGER MOVEMENT?

OR DID IT SORT OF REINFORCE SOMETHING THAT YOU ALREADY KNEW BUT WAS BEING BETTER EXPLAINED TO A LARGER AUDIENCE?

>> I THINK IT REINFORCED SOMETHING I ALREADY KNEW.

I STARTED IN A GROUP NAMED "LISTEN, MY BROTHER" WITH LUTHER VANDROSS AT THE APOLLO THEATER.

WE WERE TEENAGERS IN HIGH SCHOOL.

AND IT WAS A REPERTORY COMPANY THAT TALKED ABOUT THE TIME.

WE SANG SONGS ABOUT THE TIME WE WERE LIVING IN.

SO THEY WERE SONGS OF EMPOWERMENT.

SO WE WERE EMPOWERED AT AN EARLY AGE.

THE MOVEMENT WAS STARTING TO HAPPEN.

WE WERE TERRIFIED, BUT WE WERE ENGAGED AT THE SAME TIME.

AND BECAUSE OF THAT, APOLLO THEATER AND THE SONGS AND THE REPERTORY THAT WE DID, IT REALLY GOT US IN TOUCH WITH OURSELVES AND OUR CULTURE.

OUR BLACKNESS.

FOR THE FIRST TIME IN OUR LIVES, NOT BE AFRAID TO SAY, I AM BLACK AND I AM PROUD.

UP TILL THEN, YOU DIDN'T HEAR A LOT OF, I'M BLACK AND I'M PROUD.

SO WE WERE REINFORCED, I WAS REINFORCED, AS A TEENAGER IN THE UNDERSTANDING THAT, I COULD DO SOMETHING FOR MY CULTURE, AND I COULD PROBABLY DO IT THROUGH MUSIC BECAUSE THAT'S WHERE I WAS GOING.

BUT WE HAD BEEN EMPOWERED AT THAT POINT IN TIME IN OUR LIVES.

I WOULD SAY 17, 16, 18 YEARS OLD.

>> WOW.

>> WHAT IT DID WAS JUST REINFORCE WHERE I STARTED AND WHAT I KNEW.

>> ABSOLUTELY.

AND THE NOTION, I THINK, OF BEING THAT KID SOMETIMES CAN AGAIN BE SOMETHING THAT'S EASILY DISMISSED.

BUT IF YOU LOOK THROUGHOUT HISTORY, IT'S FREQUENTLY YOUNG PEOPLE WHERE THESE LARGE SOCIAL MOVEMENTS GERMINATE.

KEITH, I WAS WONDERING IF YOU COULD TALK ALSO ABOUT JUST THE PERSPECTIVE, I GUESS, OF THE DOCUMENTARY.

BECAUSE THE SERIES, OF COURSE, IS TOLD FROM VERY MUCH BUMPY'S POINT OF VIEW.

WITHOUT GIVING AWAY TOO MUCH.

COMING OUT OF JAIL FROM BEING LOCKED UP FOR ABOUT TEN YEARS INTO A TRANSFORMED HARLEM IN THE 1960s.

AND SO MANY GANGSTER MOVIES, FOR LACK OF A BETTER DESCRIPTION, OR SERIES, ARE OFTEN MARKED BY THEIR SOUNDTRACKS.

AND I'M WONDERING IF THE SOUNDTRACK OF THE MOVEMENT WAS AS IMPORTANT IN TELLING THE STORY.

>> 100%.

I THINK WHEN YOU LOOK AT "THE GODFATHER OF HARLEM" AND WHEN YOU -- BUMPY JOHNSON'S STORY, LIKE YOU SAID, IT'S ABOUT THE CRIMINAL UNDERWORLD OF THAT TIME PERIOD.

BUT THE MESSAGE IN THAT STORY IS A CIVIL RIGHTS STORY TOO.

BUMPY JOHNSON WAS SEEKING ECONOMIC EMPOWERMENT THROUGH THE CRIME WORLD, WHERE A BLACK MAN IN THAT TIME IN THE LEGITIMATE WORLD AND THE CRIME WORLD HAD LIMITED OPPORTUNITIES.

WE SEE HIM PLOWING THROUGH BARRIERS.

AND SO THE DOCUMENTARY SERIES TAKES A LOOK AT A DIFFERENT P PALETTE.

THE CONNECTING TISSUE IS THE TIME PERIOD, HARLEM, A LOT OF KEY PLAYERS IN THE SCRIPTED SERIES LIKE MALCOLM X, CLAYTON POWELL, BUMPY JOHNSON, SO MANY OTHERS.

WE REALLY WANTED TO TAKE A COMPREHENSIVE LOOK OF HOW MUSIC WAS ENGAGING THE COUNTRY THROUGH THE POV OF HARLEM.

AND SO, YOU KNOW, WE LOOK AT 1960 TO 1969.

WE SEE THE EARLY PART OF THE DECADE.

WE LOOK AT GOSPEL MUSIC, WHICH WAS, YOU KNOW, UNIVERSAL AS FAR AS BLACK AMERICANS ARE CONCERNED, YOU KNOW, IN THE CHURCH, HOW THE CHURCH WAS SO MUCH OF A CENTER OF OUR COMMUNITY, HOW THESE GOSPEL SONGS TRANSITIONED TO FREEDOM SONGS DURING THE CIVIL RIGHTS MOVEMENT AND INCORPORATED INTO THE MARCH ON WASHINGTON AND SO MANY OTHER MARCHES.

THOSE ARE THE SONGS YOU'RE HEARING.

WE GO FROM THERE TO JAZZ AND LOOK AT HOW JAZZ WAS IMPACTFUL, HOW JAZZ TOOK ON ITS ROLE.

FOR INSTANCE, JOHN COLTRANE, WHEN THE FOUR LITTLE GIRLS ARE MURDERED IN THE CHURCH BOMBING IN BIRMINGHAM, JOHN COLTRANE CREATED THE SONG "ALABAMA" WHICH FOLLOWED THE SAME CADENCES AND MARTIN LUTHER KING'S EULOGY OF THOSE FOUR LITTLE GIRLS.

THE END OF THE DECADE, WE LOOK AT BLACK POWER, BROWN AND BLACK, ALSO THE EMERGENCE OF THE LAST POETS.

WE SEE CURTIS MAYFIELD, WHO HAS A COMPLETE TRAJECTORY FROM EARLY PARTS OF THE DECADE TO THE END PART OF THE DECADE WHERE HE WAS MORE POP AND FEEL-GOOD, BY THE END OF THE DECADE HE WAS MORE -- HE MADE A SONG, THERE'S A HELL BELOW, WE'RE ALL GOING TO GO, WHICH TALKS ABOUT THE CORRUPTION AND THE INJUSTICES AND THE POLLUTION.

HE'S SAYING, LISTEN, WE HAVE A LOT OF PROBLEMS, WE'RE NOT GOING TO FIX ANY OF THEM, WE'RE ALL GOING TO GO TO HELL, TALKING ABOUT EVERYONE ACROSS THE BOARD.

YOU HAVE THIS BOW OF MUSIC THAT TELLS A STORY OF HOW BLACK PEOPLE WERE STARTING TO BECOME EMPOWERED THROUGH THAT DECADE.

SO THIS IS WHAT OUR SERIES REALLY TAKES A LOOK AT.

>> WELL, BUILDING ON THAT, BECAUSE EARLIER YOU DID MENTION THAT A LOT OF THE THINGS THAT HAPPENED IN THE '60s IN TERMS OF CULTURE AND MUSIC HELPED CHANGE THINGS AND THAT'S STILL TRUE FOR TODAY.

AND EVEN JUST IN YOUR DESCRIPTION OF BUMPY JOHNSON, A BLACK MAN COMING OUT OF JAIL WITH NOT A LOT OF OPPORTUNITIES, HONESTLY SOUNDS LIKE THE BIO OF SOME POPULAR RAPPERS TODAY.

SO I'M WONDERING IF YOU SEE ANY SIMILARITIES AT ALL OR ANY COMMON THREADS BETWEEN THE MUSIC AND THE CULTURE AND THE SOCIAL MOVEMENT THAT SORT OF FUELED THEM OR VICE VERSA, AS OPPOSED TO TODAY, THE '60s VERSUS NOW?

>> YOU KNOW, HIP-HOP HAS ALWAYS BEEN FRONT AND CENTER WHEN IT CAME TO ACTIVISM.

AND SPEAKING TRUTH TO POWER AND SPEAKING PLAINLY ONE'S EXPERIENCES FROM THEIR NEIGHBORHOOD.

SO IT WASN'T ALWAYS AN INCLUSIVE ART FORM.

IT'S VERY SPECIFIC TO A POPULATION.

AND THAT'S WHAT MAKES IT SO STRONG AND SO GREAT.

BUT NOW I THINK, YOU KNOW, BEYOND HIP-HOP, REMOVING -- WE'RE SEEING LIKE AN EMERGENCE OUT OF POP CULTURE WHERE PEOPLE ARE NOT -- NO LONGER PLAYING THE BUSINESS CARD AND SAYING, I WANT TO BE KIND OF FREE OF THE POLITICS.

YOU'RE DIVING RIGHT IN.

YOU LOOK AT BEYONCE, FOR INSTANCE, ONE OF THE BIGGEST POP STARS WE HAVE, HER MUSIC HAS ITS OWN ARC, RIGHT?

WHERE SHE'S NOW UNAFRAID TO SPEAK TO POWER.

HER PERFORMANCE AT THE SUPER BOWL A FEW YEARS BACK WAS VERY MUCH AN EMPOWERMENT PERFORMANCE.

IF YOU LOOK AT J.

LO, THE SAME THING.

HER PERFORMANCE AT THE SUPER BOWL THIS YEAR WAS A DIRECT -- WAS SPEAKING DIRECTLY TO THE ISSUES HAPPENING AT THE BORDER THIS YEAR AND HOW IMMIGRANTS ARE UNDER ATTACK AND UNDER THIS CURRENT CLIMATE.

AND SO THE LIST IS LONG.

WE'VE SEEN A PROLIFERATION OF ARTISTS, KNOWN AND UNKNOWN, WHO ARE MAKING MUSIC IN HIGH NUMBERS LIKE WE'VE NEVER SEEN BEFORE.

IN THE '60s, IT'S JUST ONE OF THE -- IT WAS ONE MAJOR STEPPING STONE FOR ARTISTS TODAY -- THAT ARTISTS TODAY CAME FROM.

IN THE '60s THEY'RE DOING IT IN WAYS THAT WE HADN'T SEEN BEFORE, BEFORE THAT TIME.

>> ACTUALLY, ROBIN, I WANT TO BRING YOU IN AND JUST ASK, AS A MUSICIAN, ARE THERE ANY ASPECTS OF THE RHYTHMS AND THE BEATS OF THAT TIME THAT YOU STILL HEAR CARRYING THROUGH TODAY, JUST MUSICALLY?

>> ABSOLUTELY.

MARVIN GAYE IS THE SOUNDTRACK OF THIS GENERATION AS WELL AS MY GENERATION.

MARVIN GAYE, HIS SOND TRACKS.

ARETHA FRANKLIN.

THE IMPRESSIONS.

AGAIN, JAMES BROWN.

HUGE INFLUENCE IN HIP-HOP.

SAMPLED OVER AND OVER AND OVER AGAIN.

THAT MUSIC FROM THE '60s TOTALLY INSPIRED HIP-HOP IN THIS MUSIC.

THIS GENERATION NOW.

>> THE LAST POETS -- >> I WAS GOING TO SAY, THE LAST POETS.

YOU KNOW, THE LAST POETS WERE -- >> ALWAYS OF HIP-HOP, RIGHT?

>> I CAN'T EVEN BE -- THE FOUNDERS.

THE FOUNDING FATHERS OF HIP-HOP.

ALONG WITH, BELIEVE IT OR NOT, CAB CALLAWAY.

>> OF COURSE.

>> WE GO BACK THAT FAR.

YOU KNOW, THIS MUSIC THAT'S HAPPENING NOW, THE NEW GENERATION OF MUSIC, THE HIP-HOP, THE R&B THAT'S HAPPENING NOW, IT'S ALL RECYCLED.

A LOT OF RECYCLING GOING ON.

YES, NEW LYRICS ABOUT THE TIME WE'RE LIVING IN.

BUT I'VE BEEN IN THE MUSIC BUSINESS FOR 51 YEARS.

I'VE SUNG FOR A LOT OF PEOPLE.

I'VE HEARD THE SAME THEMES RUNNING THROUGH THE MUSIC FOR THE DECADES.

>> UNFORTUNATELY, WE ARE GOING TO HAVE TO LEAVE IT THERE, ALTHOUGH I COULD ABSOLUTELY CONTINUE WITH THIS CONVERSATION.

BUT KEITH, VERY QUICKLY, FOR PEOPLE WHO WANT TO BE ABLE TO SEE THIS DOCUSERIES BY ANY MEANS NECESSARY, "THE LIFE AND TIMES OF THE GODFATHER OF HARLEM," WHERE CAN THEY FIND IT?

>> GO TO EPIX.COM, STREAM IT THROUGH THEIR APPS.

YOU CAN GO TO AMAZON PRIME AS WELL.

YOU CAN STREAM IT THROUGH AMAZON PRIME.

>> ALL RIGHT.

WELL, LISTEN.

KEITH MCQUARTER, THANK YOU FOR BRINGING US THIS DOCUSERIES.

ROBIN CLARK, YOUR CONTRIBUTIONS TO THE DOCUSERIES AND TO MUSIC ARE IMMEASURABLE.

THANK YOU BOTH FOR JOINING ME.

>>> "METROFOCUS" IS MADE POSSIBLE BY -- SUE AND EDGAR WACHENHEIM III, SYLVIA A.

AND SIMON B. POYTA PROGRAMING ENDOWMENT TO FIGHT ANTI-SEMITISM.

THE PETER G. PETERSON AND JOAN GANZ COONEY FUND.

BERNARD AND DENISE SCHWARTZ, BARBARA HOPE ZUCKERBERG, THE AMBROSE MONELL FOUNDATION, AND BY -- JANET PRINDLE SEIDLER, JODY AND JOHN ARNHOLD, CHERYL AND PHILIP MILSTEIN FAMILY, JUDY AND JOSH WESTON, DR. ROBERT C. AND TINA SOHN FOUNDATION.