♪ >>> THIS IS "METROFOCUS" WITH RAFAEL PI ROMAN, JACK FORD, AND JENNA FLANAGAN.

>>> "METROFOCUS" IS MADE POSSIBLE BY -- SUE AND EDGAR WACHENHEIM III.

SYLVIA A.

AND SIMON B. POYTA PROGRAMING ENDOWMENT TO FIGHT ANTI-SEMITISM.

THE PETER G. PETERSON AND JOAN GANZ COONEY FUND.

BERNARD AND DENISE SCHWARTZ.

BARBARA HOPE ZUCKERBERG.

THE AMBROSE MONELL FOUNDATION.

AND BY -- JANET PRINDLE SEIDLER.

JODY AND JOHN ARNHOLD.

CHERYL AND PHILIP MILSTEIN FAMILY.

JUDY AND JOSH WESTON.

DR. ROBERT C. AND TINA SOHN FOUNDATION.

THE JPB FOUNDATION.

>>> WELCOME TO "METROFOCUS."

I AM JACK FORD.

FOR SO MANY NEW YORKERS, CONCERNS OVER HOUSING AND WHERE THEY WILL LIVE NEXT HAVE COME TO DEFINE THIS PANDEMIC.

AROUND HALF A MILLION HOUSEHOLDS IN NEW YORK CITY ARE BEHIND RIGHT NOW ON THEIR RENT.

MANY OF THOSE RENTERS SURELY FELT RELIEVED LAST WEEK WHEN THE BIDEN ADMINISTRATION REINSTATED A TEMPORARY BAN ON EVICTIONS BECAUSE OF THE PANDEMIC.

BUT THERE IS STILL LINGERING QUESTIONS ABOUT WHAT HAPPENS NEXT, INCLUDING WHETHER THE NEW MORATORIUM, THE EXTENSION OF THAT MORATORIUM HOLDS UP IN COURT.

THIS UNCERTAINTY COMES AS MAYOR de BLASIO PUSHES AHEAD WITH A CONTROVERSIAL HOUSING PROGRAM OF HIS OWN.

A DECISION THAT'S ALSO BEING MET WITH LEGAL RESISTANCE.

TONIGHT WE'RE EXAMINING THESE CRITICAL HOUSING ISSUES, INCLUDING HOW TO NAVIGATE THE RENT RELEASED PROCESS AS PART OF OUR CHASING THE DREAM INITIATIVE ON POVERTY, JUSTICE AND ECONOMIC OPPORTUNITY IN AMERICA.

TO HELP US DO THAT, WE'RE DELIGHTED TO WELCOME A SENIOR REPORTER AND EDITOR FOR "CITY LIMITS."

HE ALSO COHOSTS A PUBLIC AFFAIRS PROGRAM.

DAVID, WELCOME.

GOOD TO SEE YOU.

>> THANKS FOR HAVING ME.

>> SO LET'S START OFF WITH WHAT I STARTED OFF WITH IN OUR INTRODUCTION HERE.

AND THAT IS THE EXTENSION OF THE FEDERAL MORATORIUM ON EVICTIONS.

AND AS THOSE WHO HAVE BEEN FOLLOWING IT KNOW, IT LOOKED AS IF IT WAS ABOUT TO EXPIRE.

THERE HAD BEEN A SUPREME COURT DECISION THAT ALSO SUGGESTED, THIS IS GOING TO BE THE END OF IT UNLESS CONGRESS JUMPED IN.

WELL, CONGRESS DID NOT JUMP IN, BUT THE BIDEN ADMINISTRATION DID.

GIVE US A SENSE OF HOW THEY DID THIS.

WHAT WERE THE MECHANICS INVOLVED WITH THIS EXTENSION?

>> WELL, THERE IS A REAL PROGRESSIVE GROUND SWELL TO EXTEND THESE EXPIRING EVICTION PROTECTIONS THAT WOULD HAVE EXPIRED JULY 31st.

AND, SO, YOU HAD ESPECIALLY LEFT WING LAWMAKERS LEADING THAT CHARGE AND CONGRESS MEMBER COREY BUSH SLEPT OUT ON THE STEPS OF THE CAPITAL TO TRY TO RAISE MORE ATTENTION TO THIS ISSUE.

AT FIRST PEOPLE WERE SAYING, OH, THIS IS A PUBLICITY STUNT BUT IT DID GALVANIZE MORE SUPPORT.

SO THE CURRENT BAN ON EVICTIONS IS NOT A BLANKET BAN.

IT APPLIES TO ABOUT 90% OF AMERICANS, AND IT TAKES HOLD IN COUNTIES WITH HIGH RATES OF COVID TRANSMISSION THAT FOR NOW INCLUDES ALL OF NEW YORK CITY COUNTIES.

AND, SO, AS YOU MENTION IN THE INTRODUCTION, THIS IS BEING CHALLENGED.

IT VERY WELL MAY FACE SOME TYPE OF LEGAL SETBACK.

THERE ARE A LOT OF LAWSUITS CHALLENGING THIS, INCLUDING LANDLORD GROUPS RIGHT HERE IN NEW YORK THAT ARE CHALLENGING THESE EVICTION PROTECTIONS.

AND, SO, RIGHT NOW WE HAVE ONE IN NEW YORK STATE THAT LASTS UNTIL AUGUST 31st.

THE FEDERAL EVICTION BAN WOULD EXTEND UNTIL OCTOBER 3rd.

IF IT IS -- IF IT IS ALLOWED TO STAY IN PLACE.

>> LET'S TALK ABOUT THAT BECAUSE, AGAIN, I MENTIONED THAT -- THAT THIS HAD WORKED ITS WAY UP.

A SUGGESTION BY ORGANIZATION WHO SAID ONCE THIS WAS PUT INTO PLACE THAT IT JUST WAS NOT LEGAL.

WORKED ITS WAY ALL THE WAY UP TO THE U.S. SUPREME COURT.

WHAT ESSENTIALLY DID THE SUPREME COURT SAY ABOUT THIS?

>> WELL, I MEAN, THEY DID NOT OVERTURN IT.

AND, SO, IT'S -- IT CAN STAY IN PLACE, BUT NOW THIS NEW BAN IS FACING ANOTHER ROUND OF CHALLENGES.

>> WERE YOU SURPRISED AS SOMEBODY WHO HAS BEEN FOLLOWING THIS THAT PRESIDENT BIDEN BEFORE THE DECISION TO EXTEND THIS HAD MENTIONED THAT THEY BELIEVE, BASED UPON WHAT THE SUPREME COURT HAD SAID, NOW IT WASN'T THE SUPREME COURT'S DECISION, BUT IT WAS AN OPINION IN THE CONCURRENCE.

THAT SIMPLY MEANS IT IS PERSUASIVE, BUT IT'S NOT BINDING RIGHT NOW.

AND IN THAT CONCURRENCE, JUSTICE BRETT KAVANAUGH HAD SAID, WELL, IF THIS IS GOING TO BE EXTENDED, IT HAS TO BE DONE BY CONGRESS.

YOU HEARD THAT REITERATED BY THE PRESIDENT.

LOOKS LIKE CONGRESS WILL HAVE TO DO IT.

THE PRESIDENT SAID I DON'T HAVE THE POWER TO DO IT.

THE CONGRESS DIDN'T DO IT.

THE PRESIDENT SAID, WELL, I'M GOING TO FIGURE OUT A WAY TO GET THIS DONE.

AS YOU MENTIONED, THE GROUPS THAT HAD CONTESTED THIS IN THE BEGINNING AREN'T CONTINUING TO CONTEST THIS IN THE FEDERAL COURTS.

WE'RE GOING TO HAVE TO SEE WHAT HAPPENS WITH THAT.

AND WE DON'T KNOW.

>> YEAH.

>> YOU MENTIONED ALBANY, HOWEVER.

IS THERE ANYTHING BEING DONE?

YOU TALKED ABOUT WHAT THE EXPIRATION DATE IS NOW FOR ALBANY.

IS THERE ANYTHING BEING DONE IN ALBANY THAT MIGHT EXTEND THIS?

>> TWO LAWMAKERS AND ASSEMBLY MEMBER NEW HAVE INTRODUCED LEGISLATION THAT WOULD EXTEND NEW YORK STATE'S EVICTION BAN UNTIL THE END OF OCTOBER.

SO GIVING IT ANOTHER TWO MONTHS.

THE REASONING THERE IS THAT THERE IS THE EMERGENCY RENTAL ASSISTANCE PROGRAM THAT WAS PUT IN PLACE IN THE LAST STATE BUDGET.

IT IS ALLOCATING FUNDS TO LANDLORDS WHOSE TENANTS HAVE BEEN UNABLE TO PAY RENT BECAUSE OF THE COVID-19 PAB NDEMIC.

THEY FUNDED THAT MOSTLY FROM THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT.

IT'S BEEN A SLOW PROCESS.

IT'S BEEN SLOW TO GET OFF THE GROUND.

THEY HAVE, WITHIN THE PAST COUPLE WEEKS, BEGAN TO ADMINISTER SOME OF THAT MONEY.

AND I JUST LOOKED RIGHT BEFORE I INTERVIEWED.

THEY HAVE ALLOCATED ABOUT $98 MILLION.

ABOUT A WEEK AGO THEY HAD DONE JUST ABOUT $20 MILLION.

SO IT'S STARTING TO PICK UP.

AND, YET, THAT $100 MILLION, MORE OR LESS, IS STILL JUST LIKE ONE-TWENTY OF THE TOTAL EVICTION MORATORIUM HERE IN NEW YORK IS ENDING IN JUST ABOUT THREE WEEKS.

SO A LOT OF PEOPLE ARE ANXIOUS TO GET THIS MONEY OUT THE DOOR AS SOON AS POSSIBLE TO MAKE LANDLORDS WHOLE, ESPECIALLY TENANTS AFFECTED BY THE PANDEMIC IN THEIR HOMES AND, YOU KNOW, RIGHT NOW WE SEE THE PANDEMIC AS RESURGING.

AND, SO, EVICTIONS COULD MAKE THAT WORSE.

>> LET'S TALK ABOUT THAT DELAY.

BECAUSE, AS YOU MENTION, THERE IS A LOT OF MONEY THERE THAT'S AVAILABLE TO HELP.

WE HAVE TO KEEP IN MIND, YOU KNOW, LANDLORDS OFTENTIMES THEY GET PAINTED WITH THE BAD GUY BRUSH, IF YOU WILL.

LANDLORDS HAVE MORTGAGES THAT THEY HAVE TO PAY AND TAXES THAT THEY HAVE TO PAY, AND THEY RELY UPON THE RENTAL INCOME TO DO THAT.

SO BOTH SIDES HERE ARE SUFFERING.

THERE WAS AN ENORMOUS POT OF MONEY THERE THAT WAS AVAILABLE.

WHY HAS IT TAKEN SO LONG FOR THIS DISTRIBUTION TO ROLL OUT?

>> WELL, I THINK THAT'S THE BIG QUESTION THAT IT'S NOT JUST YOU AND I ARE ASKING, THAT A LOT OF PEOPLE UP IN ALBANY ARE ASKING.

AND THIS WEEK, THERE ARE -- THERE IS A HEARING GOING ON ABOUT WHAT EXACTLY THE DELAY IS, WHAT IS GOING ON WITH THIS CONTRACTOR THAT THE STATE GAVE ABOUT $130 MILLION TO TO HAVE THIS PROGRAM RUN SMOOTHLY TWO AND A HALF MONTHS AFTER THE FIRST APPLICATIONS WENT OUT, FOUR AND A HALF MONTHS AFTER THE STATE INCLUDED THIS IN THE BUDGET THERE IS STILL SUCH SLOW GOING.

THERE ARE STILL A LOT OF QUESTIONS ABOUT WHY THIS IS TAKING SO LONG.

GOVERNOR CUOMO SAID EARLIER THIS MONTH THAT THE STATE WILL FUND -- WILL GIVE MONEY TO EVERY LANDLORD WHO HAS APPLIED AND THEIR TENANTS HAVE APPLIED AND THEY HAVE A COMPLETED APPLICATION OUT BY THE END OF AUGUST.

NOW, THAT'S A BIG LIFT.

WE'RE JUST LOOKING.

THERE HAS BEEN MORE THAN 160,000 APPLICATIONS.

SOME ARE DUPLICATES.

SOME ARE UNDOUBTEDLY INCORRECT APPLICATIONS THAT WILL HAVE TO BE RESUBMITTED.

TO MAKE LOND LORDS WHO HAVE APPLIED AND TENANTS WHO APPLIED WHOLE IN THE NEXT THREE WEEK WILLS BE A REAL CHALLENGE, I THINK.

>> THAT'S THE FRUSTRATING ELEMENT, AS YOU MENTIONED, THAT BOTH OF THE RENTERS AND LARD LORDS KNOW THAT THERE IS AN ENORMOUS FUND OF MONEY THERE FOR THEM, BUT THEY CAN'T GET THEIR HANDS ON THEM.

AS SOMEBODY WHO HAS COVERED THIS, WHAT KIND OF ADVICE WOULD YOU OFFER FOR RENTERS AND LANDLORDS AS TO WHAT THEY SHOULD BE DOING HERE TO MAKE SURE THEY WILL GET A PIECE OF THAT.

>> FIRST OFF, YOU HIT THE NAIL ON THE HEAD SAYING THERE IS A LOT OF FRUSTRATION BECAUSE LANDLORDS AND TENANTS KNOW THE MONEY IS OUT THERE AND, YET, IT IS NOT COMING THROUGH FOR THE MOST PART.

I WOULD SAY IF YOU ARE A LANDLORD OR IF YOU ARE A TENANT WHO HAS APPLIED, CONTINUE FOLLOWING UP.

AND IF YOU ARE A LANDLORD WHO IS WAITING FOR THIS MONEY TO COME THROUGH BECAUSE YOU HAVE A LOW-INCOME, MIDDLE-INCOME TENANT WHO HAS BEEN UNABLE TO MAKE THE PAYMENTS, JUST BECAUSE THE EVICTION MORATORIUM HERE IN NEW YORK STATE ENDS ON AUGUST 31st DOESN'T MEAN THAT'S THE DEADLINE TO GET THE MONEY.

IF, IN FACT, THERE IS A DELAY IN MONEY GETTING ALLOCATED FROM THE STATE, IT COULD COME IN SEPTEMBER.

IT COULD COME IN EARLY OCTOBER.

AND, SO, I MENTIONED THAT BECAUSE I TALKED TO TENANTS AND LANDLORDS WHO ARE UNDER THE IMPRESSION THAT'S THE DEADLINE.

A TENANT HAS A LANDLORD WHO IS COOPERATING WITH THEM, THEY'RE WORKING TOGETHER TO AT LEAST GET SOME OF THAT MONEY, BUT THE LANDLORD TOLD THE TENANT RECENTLY THAT HE WILL HAVE NO CHOICE BUT TO START EVICTION PROCEEDINGS IF HE DOESN'T GET THAT RENTAL ASSISTANCE MONEY.

THAT'S NOT TRUE BECAUSE IF YOU PROCEED WITH EVICTIONS AND YOU START EVICTION PROCEEDINGS, YOU KICK YOUR TENANT OUT, YOU WILL NEVER GET THAT MONEY.

THERE GOES 17 MONTHS OR SO OF MISSED RENT PAYMENTS THAT YOU WILL NEVER BE ABLE TO RECOUP.

MUST BE VERY CHALLENGING, BUT I WOULD SAY REMAIN PATIENT.

BUT REMAIN PATIENT AND ALSO FOLLOW UP.

KEEP MAKING CALLS.

KEEP TRYING TO FIND OUT WHAT THE STATUS OF THAT APPLICATION IS.

AND IF, INDEED, YOU NEED TO SUBMIT EXTRA INFORMATION.

I THINK A BIG CHALLENGE FOR THIS WHOLE PROGRAM HAS BEEN THAT IT'S ENTIRELY ONLINE.

AND, SO, THERE IS A LOT OF CONCERN THAT IT'S LOCKING OUT THE VERY PEOPLE IT'S SUPPOSED TO BENEFIT THE MOST, AND THAT'S LOWER INCOME PEOPLE, OLDER ADULTS WHO MIGHT NOT HAVE CONSISTENT ACCESS TO THE INTERNET OR TO COMPUTERS OR BE THAT TEXT SAVVY THAT IT'S TAKING MORE THAN AN HOUR TO COMPLETE THE APPLICATION BECAUSE YOU HAVE TO COMPLETE THE APPLICATION ALL IN ONE SETTING AND THERE IS NO SAVE FUNCTION.

SO I WOULD RECOMMEND TO PEOPLE WHO STILL NEED TO APPLY OR WHO APPLIED AND ARE HAVING PROBLEMS TO FIND OUT THE NONPROFIT ORGANIZATIONS IN YOUR AREA THAT ARE CONTRACTING WITH THE CITY AND WITH THE STATE TO HELP PEOPLE SPECIFICALLY WITH THESE APPLICATIONS.

AND IN EACH BUREAU, THERE IS ONE THAT'S DESIGNATED, AT LEAST ONE, THAT'S DESIGNATED TO DO THAT WORK.

AND NOW MANY DIFFERENT LEGAL SERVICES, ORGANIZATIONS ARE HELPING.

BUT THEY MAY ALSO DIRECT YOU.

IF YOU ARE IN THE BRONX, THERE IS BRONX WORKS, TO HELP PEOPLE COMPLETE THESE APPLICATIONS AND GET THEM IN.

IN CHAR CHARITIES.

IF YOU HAVE ANY ISSUES OR ANY QUESTIONS, CONNECT WITH THEM.

>> THAT'S ALL GREAT ADVICE BECAUSE YOU HATE FOR PEOPLE TO LOSE OUT ON THIS SIMPLY BECAUSE THEY DIDN'T FULLY UNDERSTAND.

>> YEAH.

>> OR, AS YOU SAID, DIDN'T HAVE THE TECHNICAL CAPACITY TO GO AHEAD AND DO THIS.

SO GREAT ADVICE FOR THEM.

SAW AN INTERESTING AND TROUBLING STATISTIC.

TALKING ABOUT DURING THE PANDEMIC, THE EVICTION CASES THAT HAD BEEN FILED, THAT IT SEEMED TO BE THAT BLACK AND LATINO RENTERS PARTICULARLY FEMALE ARE DISPROPORTIONATELY AT RISK OF HAVING EVICTION PROCEED BEGUN.

WHY ARE WE SEEING THAT?

>> WELL, WE'RE SEEING THE EVICTIONS BEGUN AGAINST LOWER-INCOME PEOPLE, BLACK AND LATINO PEOPLE MAKE A DISPROPORTIONATE AMOUNT OF THE LOW-INCOME POPULATION.

YOU MENTIONED WOMEN RENTERS, SINGLE FAMILY HEADS OF HOUSEHOLD, THOSE ARE THE MOST LIKELY TO BECOME HOMELESS WELL BEFORE THE PANDEMIC.

THE VAST MAJORITY OF HOMELESS FAMILIES IN NEW YORK CITY ARE HOUSEHOLDS HEADED BY A SINGLE MOTHER.

AND, SO, JUST LIKE SO MANY OTHER ISSUES WE SEE DURING THE COVID PANDEMIC, IT'S REALLY EXPOSED THESE PROBLEMS, AMPLIFIED THESE PROBLEMS AND SO REVEALING THAT BLACK AND LATINO RENTERS, HOUSEHOLDS LED BY SINGLE MOTHERS ARE REALLY BEARING THE BRUNT OF THE PROBLEM AND CONTINUING TO BE THE MOST VULNERABLE TO EVICTION.

>> ONCE AGAIN, WE'RE TALKING WITH THE SENIOR REPORTER AND EDITOR FOR CITY LIMITS ABOUT ALL OF THESE ISSUES SURROUNDING THE EXTENSION, FEDERAL EXTENSION OF THE MORATORIUM ON EVICTION AND WHAT'S BEING DONE HERE IN NEW YORK STATE AND ADVICE THAT'S BEEN OFFERED TO THOSE OF YOU RENTERS AND LANDLORDS TO TRY TO GET ACCESS TO THE RELIEF PROGRAM HERE.

HOW CONCERNED DO YOU THINK PUBLIC OFFICIALS ARE ABOUT THE IMPACT THAT THE END, IF IT HAPPENS, OF THIS MORATORIUM MIGHT HAVE ON THE HOMELESS NUMBERS IN THE NEW YORK AREA?

>> I THINK THEY'RE VERY CONCERNED.

AND, SO, I THINK AT A FEDERAL LEVEL, YOU SEE SENATOR CHUCK SCHUMER IS REALLY PRESSING THE STATE TO GET THIS MONEY OUT BECAUSE THERE IS KIND OF A TIME LIMIT FOR HOW LONG THE STATE CAN ALLOCATE THIS MONEY.

SO HE'S SAYING, LET'S GO.

LET'S GO.

HE SENSES THERE IS A LOT OF PEOPLE IN NEED, THAT IT WILL FUEL THE HOMELESSNESS CRISIS.

ON A STATE LEVEL, THAT'S WHY YOU SEE STATE LAWMAKERS MOVING TO EXTEND THE EVICTION MORATORIUM.

THERE IS ONE BILL THAT'S BEEN INTRODUCED, A COUPLE OTHER LAWMAKERS ARE CONSIDERING ANOTHER BILL TO EXTEND EVICTION PROTECTIONS AT LEAST FOR THE MOST VULNERABLE INDIVIDUALS.

AND THEN ON A CITY LEVEL, I THINK IT'S SCARY BECAUSE WE HAVE BEEN IN THE MIDST OF A HOMELESS CRISIS HERE IN NEW YORK CITY FOR OVER A DECADE.

THE NUMBER OF ADULTS EXPERIENCING HOMELESSNESS HAS BASICALLY DOUBLED IN THE PAST TEN YEARS.

BUT AT THE SAME TIME, THE NUMBER OF FAMILIES HAS DECREASED.

AND THE CITY THROUGH PROTECTIONS, WHETHER THAT'S RIGHT TO AN ATTORNEY AND HOUSING FOR IT, FOR JUST MORE DEDICATED OUTREACH TO FAMILIES AT RISK OF HOMELESSNESS HAS REALLY PREVENTED HOMELESSNESS, ALSO ASSISTED BY THE MORATORIUM BUT ALSO DRIVEN DOWN THE NUMBER OF FAMILIES THROUGH HOUSING VOUCHERS AND THROUGH LARGER INITIATIVES LIKE RECENTLY PURCHASING A PORTFOLIO OF BUILDINGS CALLED CLUSTER SITES THAT HAVE BEEN USED TO HOUSE FAMILIES, TURNING THOSE BUILDINGS INTO PUBLIC HOUSING AND IN ONE FELL SWOOP CREATING PERMANENT UNITS FOR ABOUT 760 FAMILIES.

SO THAT'S A SUCCESS, BUT I THINK YOU'RE RIGHT.

PEOPLE ARE VERY WORRIED THAT AS SOON AS EVICTIONS RESUME, THE HOMELESS CRISIS WILL ONLY WORSEN.

YOU HEAR A LOT OF DIRE WARNINGS ABOUT A POTENTIAL WAVE OF EVICTIONS REALLY DRIVING THAT HOMELESS POPULATION UP.

>> IT IS GOOD TO NOTE THERE HAVE BEEN SUCCESSES HERE IN THIS BATTLE.

I TALKED IN THE INTRODUCTION ABOUT THE DECISION BY THE de BLASIO ADMINISTRATION TO NOW SHIFT CERTAIN HOMELESS PEOPLE FROM HOTELS BACK INTO SHELTERS.

WHAT'S DRIVING THAT DECISION?

>> WELL, de BLASIO HAD SAID FOR MANY MONTHS THAT HE WANTED TO END THIS PROGRAM OF KEEPING -- HOUSING PEOPLE IN HOTEL ROOMS TO LIMIT THE SPREAD OF COVID-19.

SO TO TAKE A STEP BACK, BACK IN APRIL OF 2020, PEAK OF THE COVID PANDEMIC, THE CITY RENTED HOTEL ROOMS FOR ABOUT 10,000 PEOPLE WHO HAD BEEN LIVING IN SHELTERS, HOMELESS NEW YORKERS, SINGLE ADULTS.

IT HAD TWO FUNCTIONS, STOP THE SPREAD OF COVID-19 AMONG SOME OF THE MOST VULNERABLE PEOPLE IN THE CITY, STOP THE SPREAD OF COVID JUST IN COMMUNITY BECAUSE PEOPLE ARE LIVING IN RELATIVE PRIVACY, EITHER ONE OR TWO BED HOTEL ROOMS.

AND IT ALSO PROPPED UP THE HOTEL INDUSTRY, TO BE HONEST BECAUSE TOURISM HAD GOTTEN DOWN SO MUCH THAT THE CITY RENTING OUT THESE ROOMS WAS ABLE TO KEEP A LOT OF THESE HOTELS STILL IN BUSINESS.

MEANWHILE, THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT WAS REIMBURSING THE CITY FOR THE HOTEL ROOMS.

SO NO SUITE OFF NEW YORK CITY'S BACK.

THEY'RE GETTING 100% REIMBURSEMENT.

BUT STARTING IN FEBRUARY, MARCH, de BLASIO SAID HE WANTED TO PHASE OUT THIS PROGRAM, MOVING PEOPLE OUT OF THE HOTEL ROOMS AS COVID GOT UNDER CONTROL AND MORE PEOPLE GOT VACCINATED, POSITIVE CASES WENT DOWN.

AND HE MADE GOOD ON THAT IN MID-JUNE, CALLED ON THE STATE TO CHANGE THEIR RULES TO ALLOW THE CITY TO SEND PEOPLE FROM HOTELS BACK TO SHELTERS.

RIGHT AROUND JUNE 16th STARTED REALLY PUSHING THESE MOVES OF PEOPLE FROM ESPECIALLY MIDTOWN MANHATTAN SAYING THIS WAS NECESSARY FOR THE CITY'S RECOVERY, THAT WE NEEDED TO ATTRACT MORE TOURISTS TO THE CITY AND HOUSE THEM IN THESE HOTELS.

THERE IS ALSO PRETTY BIASSED BACKLASH AGAINST HOMELESS NEW YORKERS THROUGHOUT THIS PANDEMIC.

YOU SAW IT A LOT DURING THE MA MAYORAL RACE.

SAYING THEY'RE RESPONSIBLE FOR A RISING CRIME OR QUALITY OF LIFE ISSUES.

A LOT OF THAT NOT BASED IN REALITY.

A LOT OF THAT KIND OF PAINTING PEOPLE EXPERIENCING HOMELESSNESS WITH A BROAD BRUSH.

BUT THAT'S THE CONTEXT IN WHICH THEY STARTED RUSHING THESE MOVES.

ATTORNEYS FOR PEOPLE EXPERIENCING HOMELESSNESS CHALLENGED THE MOVES AFTER A FEW THOUSAND PEOPLE HAD ALREADY BEEN RUSHED OUT INTO SHELTERS.

THEY GOT TEMPORARY STOPS BECAUSE A JUDGE RULED THAT NEW YORK CITY WAS NOT TAKING INTO ACCOUNT THE DISABILITY NEEDS OF MANY PEOPLE, EITHER MENTAL HEALTH, DISABILITIES OR PHYSICAL DISABILITIES.

SO, FOR EXAMPLE, PEOPLE BEING MOVED INTO CONGREGATE SHELTERS WHERE 20 PEOPLE SLEEP IN A ROOM AND DOESN'T HAVE AN ACCESSIBLE BATHROOM OR MOVING SOMEONE FROM ONE HOTEL TO ANOTHER.

THAT HOTEL DOESN'T HAVE AN ELEVATOR AND MEANWHILE THEY HAVE A MOTOR SCOOTER.

AND, SO, A LOT OF THESE, THERE WERE A LOT OF EXAMPLES OF THIS.

THE JUDGE PUMPED THE BRAKES.

THE CITY HAS GRADUALLY RESUMED MAKING THESE MOVES.

RIGHT NOW WE'RE ON A TEMPORARY HOLD.

BUT OF 8,000 PEOPLE WHO ARE STILL IN HOTELS IN JUNE, ABOUT 6,000 HAVE BEEN MOVED OUT.

>> HAS THE ADMINISTRATION INDICATED WHAT THEY WOULD DO IF THEY SEE A SPIKE IN POSITIVE CASES IN THE SHELTERS ONCE THESE PEOPLE ARE MOVED BACK?

MIGHT THEY REVERSE BACK INTO THE HOTELS?

HAVE THEY SAID ANYTHING ABOUT IT?

>> I THINK THAT'S A REALLY IMPORTANT QUESTION.

THAT'S ONE I HAVE BEEN TRYING TO GET ANSWERED, TOO.

I HAVE ASKED THE MAYOR.

I HAVE ASKED THE HEALTH COMMISSIONER IF THERE IS A THRESHOLD.

SAY IF WE REMEMBER BACK IN 2020 WHEN THE MAYOR SAID IF COVID CASES REACH 3% WE'RE GOING TO CLOSE SCHOOLS.

AND WE BECAME ACCUSTOMED TO THOSE KINDS OF THRESHOLDS.

NOW IS THERE GOING TO BE SOMETHING LIKE THAT FOR THE SHELTER SYSTEM?

IF WE ARE SEEING A LOT OF COVID CASES IN THESE LARGE GROUP SHELTERS, IS THE CITY GOING TO REVERSE COURSE AND SEND PEOPLE BACK INTO WHAT THEY CALL DEDENSIFICATION HOTELS AND THOSE ARE THE SINGLE OR DOUBLE ROOM, DOUBLE BED HOTELS TO LIMIT THE SPREAD.

LAST WEEK I ASKED THE DEPARTMENT OF HOMELESS SERVICES COMMISSIONER, STEVE BANKS, THE SAME QUESTION.

I SAW HIM AT AN EVENT AND HE KIND OF JUST REVERTED TO TALKING ABOUT THE CITY IS FOLLOWING STATE GUIDANCE.

THE STATE SAID THAT THE STAY -- THAT ALL MUNICIPALITIES CAN RETURN PEOPLE TO CONGREGATE SHELTERS.

SO HARD TO GET AN ANSWER ON THAT.

I WOULD FIND IT HARD TO BELIEVE THERE ARE NOT SOME TYPES OF CONVERSATIONS GOING ON ABOUT THAT, SOME TYPE OF CONTINGENCY BECAUSE THIS IS WHAT A LOT OF HOMELESS NEW YORKERS AND ADVOCATES ARE FLAGGING, THAT THE DELTA VARIANT IS VERY CON CONTAGIOUS.

IT'S SCARY.

HOMELESS CASES ARE GOING UP AND THE ADULT SHELTER POPULATION IS LARGELY UNVACCINATED.

AND, SO, EXPOSING MORE PEOPLE TO COVID.

>> YOU MENTIONED A NUMBER OF THINGS THAT THE ADMINISTRATION HAS BEEN DOING TO DEAL WITH THESE ISSUES.

ONE OF THE THINGS WE SAW RECENTLY IS THAT THE MAYOR OKAYED INCREASING THE VALUE OF CITY RENTAL VOUCHERS.

EXPLAIN WHAT THAT PROCESS IS AND HOW THAT MIGHT BE HELPFUL.

>> SO I THINK MANY OF US PROBABLY FAMILIAR WITH THE FEDERAL HOUSING VOUCHER SECTION 8 WHICH WILL COVER A YEAR'S RENT FOR LOWER INCOME AMERICANS, LOWER INCOME NEW YORKERS.

THE CITY HAS THEIR OWN RENTAL ASSISTANCE PROGRAM CALLED CITY FAST.

AND THAT WILL DO THE SAME THING.

IT WILL COVER A YEAR OF RENT, ESPECIALLY FOR FAMILIES MOVING OUT OF SHELTER INTO PERMANENT HOUSING.

AND, SO, PREVIOUSLY, THE RATE OF CITY WAS LOWER THAN SECTION 8.

SECTION 8 COULD COVER A $2,000 APARTMENT FOR A FAMILY OF THREE, WHICH IS MARKET RATE, MORE OR LESS, IN A LOT OF NEIGHBORHOODS IN NEW YORK CITY.

THIS WOULD COVER $1,300.

SO WHAT SO MANY VOUCHER HOLDERS WOULD SAY, I HAVE THIS VOUCHER BUT IT IS WORTHLESS BECAUSE I CAN'T FIND AN IMPORTANT PRICED LOW ENOUGH TO AFFORD.

AND SO A LOT OF THEM WERE GOING UNUSED.

THE CITY POINTS OUT MANY OF THEM WERE USED, AND THAT'S NO DOUBT TRUE, BUT THERE ARE STILL THOUSANDS OF PEOPLE THAT HAD THESE VOUCHERS UNABLE TO FIND A LANDLORD ABLE TO TAKE THEM.

A LOT OF PRESSURE FROM ADVOCATES, SOME LAWMAKERS AND OF COURSE HOMELESS NEW YORKERS PUSHING THE CITY TO RAISE THAT VALUE.

CITY COUNCIL PASSED LEGISLATION IN JUNE THAT WOULD MATCH THE CITY'S RATE TO SECTION 8, OPEN UP THOUSANDS OF ADDITIONAL APARTMENTS THROUGHOUT THE CITY FOR PEOPLE TO AFFORD.

AFTER A LOT OF PRESSURE, ESPECIALLY BY HOMELESS NEW YORKERS DURING AN INITIATIVE CALLED HOMELESS RIGHTS MONTH, TOOK PLACE THROUGHOUT JULY, MAYOR de BLASIO AGREED TO SIGN THAT BILL AND TO IMPLEMENT IT STARTING SEPTEMBER 1st.

SO PEOPLE ARE HOPING THAT THIS WILL UNLOCK A LOT OF NEW APARTMENTS FOR FAMILIES AND INDIVIDUALS EXPERIENCING HOMELESSNESS.

>> ONE OF THE ADVOCATES SAID THAT IT JUST MADE NO SENSE TO HAVE THAT GAP, IF YOU WILL.

THAT THE PROGRAM WASN'T DOING WHAT IT SHOULD BE DOING.

WHY DID IT TAKE SO LONG TO GET THAT REMEDIED, DO YOU THINK?

>> I THINK THERE WAS A LITTLE BIT MORE OF A FOCUS ON SOME OTHER INITIATIVES THAT KIND OF DISTRACTED FROM THIS ONE, LIKE THERE WAS A PUSH TO GET A SUBSIDY AT THE STATE LEVEL CALLED A HOME STABILITY SUPPORT THAT WOULD KIND OF LIKE AGGREGATE ALL RENTAL ASSISTANCE PROGRAMS.

THAT NEVER REALLY GOT OFF THE GROUND.

BUT I THINK IT DISTRACTED AWAY FROM THIS FIGHT AMONG A LOT OF ADVOCATES.

SO ONCE THEY STARTED PRESSING FOR THIS, THEY WERE GETTING A LOT OF OTHER COUNCIL MEMBERS TO SIGN ON AND FINALLY THEY HAD A SUPER MAJORITY TO PASS IT.

NOW, THE CITY PUSHES BACK, WAS PUSHING BACK AND SAYING WE DON'T WANT TO RAISE THE VALUE OF THE CITY'S VOUCHER, WHILE THE STATE WHICH ALSO HAS A RENTAL ASSISTANCE PROGRAM IS NOT GOING TO RAISE THE VALUE OF THEIRS.

AND ADVOCATES WOULD SAY THAT THEY ARE SEPARATE CRITERIA FOR THE TWO PROGRAMS, SO IT IS NOT REALLY COMPARING APELES AND APPLES, BUT THE CITY'S POINT IS THAT OVER THE PAST DECADE OR SO THE STATE HAS REALLY ADDY KATED THEIR RESPONSIBILITY ON HOMELESS SERVICES AND HAS SLASHED FUNDING FOR HOMELESS SERVICES PROGRAMMING LEAVING NEW YORK CITY HOLDING THE BAG.

SO THEY DIDN'T WANT TO CONTINUE THAT TREND OF THE PAST DECADE OR SO.

NOW STATE LAWMAKERS AT THE END OF THE LAST LEGISLATIVE SESSION DID ACTUALLY PASS A MEASURE TO RAISE THE VOUCHER VALUE ALSO TO SECTION 8 LEVELS.

THAT SURPRISED A LOT OF ADVOCATES WHO DIDN'T SEE THAT COMING.

NOW IT IS UP TO CUOMO TO SIGN IT, BUT I THINK HE HAS OTHER STUFF GOING ON RIGHT NOW.

>> THAT'S THE BIG QUESTION.

LAST QUESTION, WE HAVE ABOUT A MINUTE FOR YOU HERE.

BUT YOU TOUCHED BASE ON IT BEFORE WITH SOME POSITIVE STATISTICS, IF YOU WILL.

THAT WAS, AS YOU MENTION, THAT THE NUMBER OF FAMILIES WITH CHILDREN IN SHELTERS IS THE LOWEST IT'S BEEN IN A DECADE.

WHY DO YOU THINK THAT IS?

>> I THINK THERE'S BEEN A HUGE, CONCERTED EFFORT TO GET FAMILIES OUT OF SHELTERS AND INTO PERMANENT HOMES.

TO TRY TO KEEP PEOPLE HOUSED.

WE'RE WORKING IN CONTEXT OVER THE PAST YEAR PLUS OF THE EVICTION FREEZE.

SO THERE IS NOT AS MANY NEW FAMILIES ENTERING THE SYSTEM.

BUT AT THE SAME TIME, THE FAMILIES WHO ARE IN SHELTER, ARE -- A GOOD PORTION OF THEM ARE GETTING HOUSED.

THAT'S THROUGH PROGRAMS I MENTIONED.

THE CITY BUYING A PORTFOLIO, BUILDING CLUSTER SITE SHELTERS, TURNING THOSE INTO PERMANENT HOUSING.

SO ONE FELL SWOOP GIVING FAMILIES PERMANENT HOUSING.

I THINK RAISING THE VOUCHER VALUE IS GOING TO FURTHER HELP FAMILIES.

AND THEN JUST KIND OF LIKE WRAP AROUND SERVICES AFTER PEOPLE GET HOUSING TO ENSURE THAT THEY'RE KEEPING IT, THEY'RE PAYING THEIR RENT, THEY'RE KEEPING THEIR SUBSIDIES.

STILL A LOT OF WORK TO BE DONE.

THERE IS STILL 8,000 FAMILIES OR SO EXPERIENCING HOMELESSNESS, BUT IT IS A MAJOR CHANGE.

>> DAVID, THANK YOU SO MUCH.

>> THANKS FOR HAVING ME.

>> VERY HELPFUL.

VERY INFORMATIVE.

WE'LL TALK TO YOU AGAIN SOON.

>> TAKE CARE.

>>> "METROFOCUS" IS MADE POSSIBLE BY -- SUE AND EDGAR WACHENHEIM III.

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BARBARA HOPE ZUCKERBERG.

THE AMBROSE MONELL FOUNDATION.

AND BY -- JANET PRINDLE SEIDLER.

JODY AND JOHN ARNHOLD.

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