♪ >>> THIS IS "METROFOCUS" WITH RAFAEL PI ROMAN, JACK FORD, AND JENNA FLANAGAN.

>>> "METROFOCUS" IS MADE POSSIBLE BY -- SUE AND EDGAR WACHENHEIM III.

SYLVIA A.

AND SIMON B. POYTA PROGRAMING ENDOWMENT TO FIGHT ANTI-SEMITISM.

THE PETER G. PETERSON AND JOAN GANZ COONEY FUND.

BERNARD AND DENISE SCHWARTZ.

BARBARA HOPE ZUCKERBERG.

THE AMBROSE MONELL FOUNDATION.

AND BY -- JANET PRINDLE SEIDLER.

JODY AND JOHN ARNHOLD.

CHERYL AND PHILIP MILSTEIN FAMILY.

JUDY AND JOSH WESTON.

DR. ROBERT C. AND TINA SOHN FOUNDATION.

>>> GOOD EVENING, AND WELCOME TO "METROFOCUS."

THIS IS OUR WEEKLY FRONT PAGE FORECAST.

EVERY MONDAY NIGHT, WE WILL TAKE A LOOK AT THE LOCAL MAKING NEWS MAKING HEADLINES AND THE POTENTIAL IMPACT ON THE TRI-STATE AREA.

TONIGHT WE HAVE A LOT TO COVER.

FIRST TALIBAN TAKEOVER.

ALMOST EXACTLY 20 YEARS AFTER 9/11, AMERICANS ARE SCRAMBLING TO GET OUT OF AFGHANISTAN.

AND A DECADES LONG WAR IS COMING TO A SHOCKING END.

DEVASTATION IN HAITI.

NEARLY 1,300 SO FAR HAVE BEEN DECLARED DEAD AS THE COUNTRY BREACHES FOR A TROPICAL DEPRESSION STORM.

AND THE CUOMO INVESTIGATION.

FIRST IT WAS ON.

THEN IT WAS OFF.

NOW PERHAPS IT'S ON AGAIN.

WHERE DOES THE GOVERNOR STAND?

WE HAVE THE LATEST.

AND THE VACCINE MANDATE.

WE'LL TALK ABOUT THE MAJOR CHANGE COMING TO NEW YORK CITY STARTING TODAY.

SO LET'S GET STARTED.

AND HERE WITH ME ON THE "METROFOCUS" PANEL TONIGHT IS DR. GREER.

SHE IS A PROFESSIONAL OF POLITICAL SCIENCE AND CO-HOST OF A PODCAST.

IT IS ALWAYS GREAT TO HAVE YOU ON THE SHOW.

>> THANKS SO MUCH FOR HAVING US, JENNA.

>> WE'RE ALSO JOINED TONIGHT BY BEN MAX.

BEN IS THE EXECUTIVE EDITOR AND HOST OF A PODCAST.

BEN, IT'S GREAT TO HAVE YOU ON.

>> THANKS, JENNA.

>>> AND WE'RE JOINED TONIGHT BY JOSEPH, A REPUBLICAN STRATEGIST, FORMER STATE ASSEMBLY CANDIDATE AND CHAIR OF THE CONSERVATIVE COLOR COALITION, WHICH PROMOTES POLITICAL ENGAGEMENT AMONG MINORITY GROUPS AS WELL AS ALLIES.

JOSEPH, WELCOME BACK TO "METR "METROFOCUS."

JOSEPH, I WILL START WITH YOU FIRST AND JUST GET YOUR TAKE ON THE END OF THE SO-CALLED FOREVER WAR.

A LOT HAS BEEN MADE ABOUT EXACTLY WHO IS RESPONSIBLE FOR WHAT APPEARS TO BE A DEBACLE OF AN EXIT.

BUT FROM YOUR TAKE, WHAT ARE YOU SEEING?

>> LOOK, IT'S A SAD DAY IN GEOPOLITICS.

IT IS A SAD DAY CERTAINLY FOR AMERICA.

WHEN YOU LOOK AT THOSE HARROWING IMAGES OF THE AFGHAN PEOPLE TRYING TO CLING TO AN AMERICAN PLANE LITERALLY ROLLING DOWN THE RUNWAY AS WE FLY AWAY FROM THEIR PAIN AND SUFFERING, THE PICTURE SPEAKS VOLUMES.

BUT IF YOU LOOK AT THIS IN A WHOLISTIC STANDPOINT, WE LOST OVER 2,400 AMERICAN HEROES IN THE NAME OF THIS WAR, OVER 20,000 WOUNDED WARRIORS RETURNED TO THESE SHORES, THEIR LIVES FOREVER ALTERED BECAUSE AMERICA DREW A LINE IN THE DIRT THAT WE WOULD NEVER ALLOW TERRORISM TO GAIN A FOOTHOLD AGAIN TO BE USED AS THE BASE TO ATTACK THE WESTERN WORLD.

AND NOW WE SEE THE INEVITABLE OUTCOME OF TRYING TO FORCE A CENTRALIZED GOVERNMENT ON A DECENTRALIZED PEOPLE WHO HAVE A DISTRUST OF GOVERNMENT.

AND THE HARD TRUTH IS THAT, YES, PERHAPS MAYBE THE NOTION THAT THE TALIBAN WOULD TAKE BACK SOME OF THE TERRITORY WAS INEVITABLE.

BUT THE MOTION THAT WE WOULD LEAVE IN THIS MANNER, WHILE IT APPEARS THIS ADMINISTRATION IS ASLEEP AT THE WHEEL UNFORTUNATELY IS A DAY I DON'T CARE WHAT YOUR POLITICS ARE, WE THOUGHT WE WOULD NEVER HAVE TO BEHOLD.

>> BEN, A LOT OF PEOPLE HAVE BEEN COMPARING THIS TO THE FALL OF SAIGON AND THE FACT THAT WHILE HISTORY DOESN'T NECESSARILY REPEAT ITSELF, IT RHYMES.

I'M WONDERING FROM YOUR PERSPECTIVE, AND, AGAIN, REALIZING THAT THIS ISN'T NECESSARILY OUR LOCAL POLITICS, BUT THIS DOES TIE INTO THIS 9/11 ANNIVERSARY THAT WE'VE GOT COMING UP.

ARE THERE LESSONS THAT WE SHOULD BE TAKING THAT PERHAPS WERE MISSED FROM THE LAST EXIT FROM A COUNTRY THAT WE WERE IN?

>> WELL, ALL OF THE LIVES LOST AND THE MONEY SPENT AND THE HORRIFIC NATURE OF WHAT'S UNFOLDED OVER 20 YEARS ALL NEEDS TO BE RETHOUGHT AND DISCUSSED AND ANALYZED FOR A LONG TIME TO COME.

THIS IS ALL STILL UNFOLDING RIGHT NOW, OBVIOUSLY, BUT THERE ARE VERY SERIOUS QUESTIONS THAT NEED TO BE ASKED ABOUT THE DURATION OF THE U.S.

PRESENCE IN AFGHANISTAN AND WHAT THE MISSION WAS, WHAT THE GOALS WERE AND WHAT HAS AND HASN'T BEEN ACCOMPLISHED.

THERE IS A VERY TRAGIC IRONY TO THE FACT THAT THE TALIBAN LOOKS LIKE IT WILL BE IN CONTROL OF AFGHANISTAN ON THE 20th ANNIVERSARY OF SEPTEMBER 11th, 2001, AND THERE ARE SOME VERY REAL QUESTIONS THAT NEED TO BE ASKED ABOUT THE WITHDRAWAL THAT WAS PUT IN MOTION UNDER PRESIDENT OBAMA, ACCELERATED UNDER PRESIDENT TRUMP AND NOW HAPPENING UNDER PRESIDENT BIDEN.

AND I THINK THERE ARE VERY REAL QUESTIONS AROUND THE EXIT STRATEGY AND AROUND WHAT IS AND ISN'T BEING DONE FOR PEOPLE THAT NEED TO LEAVE THE COUNTRY AND THE RUSHED NATURE OF THIS, THE TRAGIC NATURE OF WHO IS BEING LEFT BEHIND.

THERE IS SOME REAL PROBLEMS AND CONSEQUENCES HERE, BUT THIS IS ANOTHER IN A LONG LIST OF PROBLEMATIC OCCUPATIONS OF SORTS BY THE UNITED STATES ABROAD.

>> OF COURSE.

DR. GREER, A SIMILAR QUESTION TO YOU.

WHAT ARE THE LESSONS THAT SEEM, AGAIN, UNDERSTANDING THIS IS 2020, BUT THERE WERE PEOPLE ALONG THE WAY DURING THIS TWO DEM SAIDS LONG SO-CALLED FOREVER WAR WHO ARE SAYING WE WEREN'T FULLY UNDERSTANDING THE CULTURE AND THE COUNTRY THAT WE WERE GOING INTO TO ATTEMPT TO SET UP A GOVERNMENT AND DO NATION BUILDING.

>> ABSOLUTELY.

WE SAW THE BRITISH FAIL, THE SOVIETS FAIL.

THIS IS WHERE DEMOCRACIES GO TO FAIL IN MANY WAYS, AND, SO, THIS WAS THE CAUTIONARY TALE MANY AMERICANS HAD IN 2001 AND 2002 WHEN GEORGE BUSH AND HIS CABINET WERE SO EAGER TO GO IN WITHOUT A FULL EXPLANATION.

I THINK, YOU KNOW, TO ECHO WHAT JOE AND BEN HAVE SAID, WE'RE TRYING TO KEEP THE AFGHAN PEOPLE IN OUR MINDS AND HEARTS, BUT WE RECOGNIZE THAT DEMOCRATIC AND REPUBLICAN POLITICS IN MANY WAYS CONTRIBUTE TO INTERNATIONAL RELATIONSHIPS.

THERE IS A SLIVER OF DAYLIGHT.

THERE IS QUITE A SIMILAR APPROACH, A HAWKISH APPROACH IS HOW WE MOVE ABROAD AND HOW WE GO IN AND HOW WE SADLY EXIT, LEAVING PEOPLE AND JOURNALISTS BEHIND AND THOSE WHO HAVE HELPED US IN SOME WAYS.

WE RECOGNIZE THAT AFGHANISTAN IS PROBABLY THE SAME AS WE LEFT IT, LARGELY WORSE, BECAUSE OF OUR INTERVENTIONS AND OVER THE PAST TWO DECADES.

SO AS WE KEEP, I WOULD ARGUE, AFGHANISTAN, LEBANON, HAITI IN MIND, WE HAVE YET TO EVER HAVE A REAL REFLECTION ON HOW WE SPREAD DEMOCRACY ABROAD, HOW WE FAIL TO DO IT AT HOME AND HOW WE INTERJECT OURSELVES IN OTHER PEOPLE'S GOVERNMENTAL STRUCTURES.

AND WHEN IT SUITS US, WE ABSCOND AND LEAVE DESTRUCTION BEHIND, WHICH MAKES OUR AMERICAN SOIL A LOT LESS SAFE.

>> WELL, DR. GREER, SEEING AS YOU JUST MENTIONED KEEPING PEOPLE IN OUR HEARTS AND MINDS, AND YOU DID MENTION THE PEOPLE OF HAITI.

THAT IS THE NEXT SUBJECT I WANT TO ADDRESS AND THE FACT THERE HAS BEEN THIS MAGNITUDE 7.2 EARTHQUAKE IN AN INCREDIBLY IMPOVERISHED POOR COUNTRY THAT IS STILL RECOVERING FROM THE LAST EARTHQUAKE.

DO YOU THINK OR ARE THERE ANY CONCERNS ABOUT THE U.S.

RESPONSE TO THIS IN THE SENSE THAT THERE SHOULD BE HELP BEING SENT OR PERHAPS, YOU KNOW, OPENING OUR BORDERS FOR REFUGEES TO COME IN.

WHAT ARE YOUR THOUGHTS ON DOES AMERICA PLAY ANY IMPORTANT ROLE IN HELPING HAITI RECOVER YET AGAIN FROM TERRIBLE DEVASTATION?

>> I MEAN, IT SHOULD.

WE'RE PART OF THE REASON WHY HAITI IS SO DESTABILIZED.

JUST LAST MONTH WE WERE SENDING FOLKS BACK TO HAITI IN THE MIDDLE OF A GLOBAL PANDEMIC.

THEIR PRESIDENT WAS JUST ASSASSINATED.

IT'S HURRICANE SEASON.

IT SEEMS AS THOUGH THAT COUNTRY CAN'T CATCH A BREAK.

THERE ARE MANY WAYS THAT HAITI IS DESTABILIZED, LARGELY BECAUSE OF U.S.

INTERVENTIONS OR LACK THEREOF.

HAITIAN REFUGEES ARE SEEN AS ECONOMIC, NOT POLITICAL REFUGEES.

AND ALSO HAITIANS WHO MOVE HERE AND TRY AND START A LIFE AND BUILD A FAMILY AND WORK IN THIS NATION.

AND, SO, AS WE MOVE FORWARD, WE NEED TO REALLY ASK OURSELVES IF OUR REAL SUBSTANTIVE AID IS GETTING THERE.

AND WE DON'T HAVE REAL ANSWERS TO THAT AS THE UNITED STATES.

MANY SCHOLARS AND HISTORIANS HAVE INTERESTING PROPOSALS.

BUT SADLY, IT DOESN'T SEEM AS THOUGH IT'S GETTING TO THE PEOPLE IN POSITIONS OF POWER TO ENACT THOSE POLICIES.

IT IS MY SINCERE HOPE THAT AS HAITI TRIES TO REBUILD, WHICH WILL PROBABLY BE ONE OF MANY MORE TO COME, AS THEY DEAL WITH HURRICANE SEASON, AS THEY DEAL WITH COVID, AS THEY DEAL WITH THE POLITICAL FALL-OUT FROM THE A ASSASSINATION OF THEIR LEADER, WE CAN SEE A REAL CONVERSATION OF HOW HAITI MOVES FORWARD IN THE 20th CENTURY AND NOT LIVE IN THE SHADOW OF THE UNITED STATES AND FRANCE STILL.

>> YOUR THOUGHTS ON WHETHER OR NOT THIS COUNTRY AS A MORAL OBLIGATION TO STEP IN AND HELP HAITI.

>> LOOK, I THINK WE HAVE A MORAL OBLIGATION TO STEP IN AND HELP HAITI IF FOR NO OTHER REASON THAT THE AMERICAN INFRASTRUCTURE THAT WE HAVE HERE IS IN LARGE PART DUE TO WHAT HAS HAPPENED IN HAITI AND ALSO THE DESTRUCTION WE HAVE SEEN IN HAITI IN MANY WAYS BY EXTENSION HAS HAPPENED BECAUSE OF AMERICANS DECIDING TO EITHER STEP IN OR STEP OUT.

SO, LOOK, I THINK THAT WE HAVE, IN MANY WAYS, BEEN PENNY-WISE AND DOLLAR FOOLISH WHEN IT COMES TO THE PEOPLE OF HAITI.

YOU SEE THESE NATURAL DISASTERS THAT COME THROUGH.

WE SEND AID.

THAT AID IS NOT DISSEMINATED IN A SAFE MANNER OR RATHER IN A DISCERNING MANNER.

WE REBUILD INFRASTRUCTURE IN A MANNER THAT IS NOT BUILT FOR THE LONG TERM BUT BUILT FOR THE SHORT TERM.

SO WE END UP HAVING TO GO BACK AND REBUILD AND REBUILD TIME AND TIME AGAIN BECAUSE WE HAVE NOT SET THE SAME STANDARDS FOR THAT BUILDING THAT WE WOULD FOR HERE AT HOME.

SO I THINK, AGAIN, TO THE PROFESSOR'S POINT, IF YOU LOOK AT THE HISTORY OF AMERICA, HOW DO WE GET SOMETHING LIKE THE LOUISIANA PURCHASE?

IT IS BECAUSE, BY EXTENSION, THE PEOPLE OF HAITI THAT RISE UP AND SAY THAT THEY DON'T WANT TO LIVE WITH SLAVERY ANYMORE AND YOU HAVE THE FRENCH PEOPLE BEING SO BANKRUPT, WE END UP HAVING THE LARGEST TRANSFER OF LAND THROUGH A PEACEFUL TRANSFER OF LAND AS A DIRECT RESULT OF OUR TIES TO THE HAITIAN PEOPLE.

WE FORGET ABOUT THOSE LINKS THAT GO ACROSS OCEANS BETWEEN THE HAITIAN PEOPLE AND AMERICA.

THEY'RE NOT THAT FAR FROM US.

I THINK WE DO HAVE A MORAL OBLIGATION TO STEP IN.

>> BEN, DO YOU SEE BECAUSE, OF COURSE, NOT JUST NEW YORK BUT THE TRI-STATE AREA DOES HAVE A SIZABLE HAITIAN-AMERICAN COMMUNITY.

DO YOU SEE PERHAPS LOCAL LEADERS STEPPING IN TO USE THIS AS AN OPPORTUNITY TO GALVANIZE SUPPORT, NOT JUST FROM THESE COMMUNITIES, BUT ALSO PERHAPS TO ORGANIZE SOME SORT OF RELIEF EFFORT, SOMETHING ESPECIALLY WITH HURRICANE SEASON STARTING THAT GOT A TROPICAL DEPRESSION HEADED TOWARDS THEM.

>> YEAH, ABSOLUTELY.

I MEAN, IT IS ALWAYS INCUMBENT UPON LOCAL LEADERS, ESPECIALLY THOSE WHO REPRESENT LARGE HAITIAN POPULATIONS OR, YOU KNOW, WHATEVER THE POPULATION MIGHT BE AND ALSO ANY AFGHAN POPULATIONS, TO GO BACK TO THE PRIOR SEGMENT OF OUR DISCUSSION, YOU KNOW, TO ORGANIZE AND TO TRY TO PUT PRESSURE ON OTHER LEADERS WHO NEED TO STEP UP.

YOU HEARD MAYOR BILL de BLASIO ON MONDAY MORNING OFFER UP A WEBSITE FOR PEOPLE WHO WANT TO DONATE TO RELIEF EFFORTS IN HAITI AND TALK ABOUT MENTAL HEALTH SERVICES FOR HAITIAN-AMERICANS IN THE CITY BEING OFFERED.

THERE ARE DEFINITELY LOCAL RESOURCES THAT CAN BE UTILIZED, AS WELL AS ORGANIZE RELIEF EFFORTS AND PUT PRESSURE ON DECISION MAKERS ABOUT REFUGEES.

THAT GOES BACK TO AFGHANISTAN AS WELL, QUESTIONS ABOUT WHAT THE U.S. ROLE IS IN ACCEPTING PEOPLE INTO THE COUNTRY.

WE KNOW THAT REFUGEE CASTS WERE LOWERED DRAMATICALLY UNDER PRESIDENT TRUMP AND THERE IS QUESTION ABOUT WHAT PRESIDENT BIDEN WILL DO ABOUT THAT.

HE BACKTRACKED ON SOME PROMISES TO RAISE THOSE CAPS.

WE'LL SEE IF WHAT'S HAPPENING WILL CHANGE ANY OF THAT DISCUSSION.

>> BEN, I WANT TO STICK WITH YOU BECAUSE WE ARE, OF COURSE, A LOCAL NEWS SHOW.

AND ONE OF THE BIG, LOCAL ONGOING STORIES SEEMS TO BE WHAT'S GOING TO HAPPEN WITH GOVERNOR CUOMO.

NOW, INITIALLY, AFTER THE GOVERNOR ANNOUNCED THAT HE WOULD BE RESIGNING.

I THINK WE'RE A WEEK OUT FROM THAT OFFICIALLY HAPPENING, THAT THE ASSEMBLY WAS GOING TO STOP WITH ITS IMPEACHMENT PROCEEDINGS BUT THEN WE SORT OF HEARD THE SPEAKER SAY, NO, WE'RE GOING TO.

CAN YOU PLEASE GIVE US AN UPDATE AND TELL US WHERE THIS SITUATION STANDS AND WHY THE BACK AND FORTH?

>> SURE.

SO SOME OF THE IMPORTANT CONTEXT HERE IS THAT -- AND IN SOME WAYS, THIS IS NATURAL BECAUSE IMPEACHMENT IS SUCH A BIG DEAL AND IS SUCH A POLITICALLY FRAUGHT ISSUE.

BUT THERE IS MORE TO IT THAN THAT.

THIS IS SOMETHING THAT SPEAKER KARL OF THE ASSEMBLY NEVER WANTED TO DO IN THE FIRST PLACE.

HE IS NOT SOMEONE WHO IS EAGER TO LAUNCH AN IMPEACHMENT INVESTIGATION INTO GOVERNOR CUOMO, BUT HE DID IT WHEN HE HAD REALLY NO OPTION OTHERWISE.

SO IT WASN'T SURPRISING WHEN, AFTER THE GOVERNOR ANNOUNCED A RESIGNATION, THAT THE SPEAKER ON A FRIDAY AFTERNOON THEN ANNOUNCED THAT THE ASSEMBLY WOULD BE SUSPENDING ITS IMPEACHMENT PROCEEDINGS ONCE THE GOVERNOR DOES RESIGN.

WE EXSPECT HIM TO RESIGN ON AUGUST 24th, BUT WE HAVE YET TO SEE AN OFFICIAL RESIGNATION LETTER OF ANY KIND.

WE HAVE BEEN ASKING FOR IT.

THAT WOULD BE VERY IMPORTANT TO KEEP TABS ON.

THOUGH, THE GOVERNOR HAS PUT OUT SOMETHING TODAY THAT MENTIONS THE LIEUTENANT GOVERNOR KHOCHULS ADMINISTRATION ABOUT COVID PROTOCOLS.

IT WOULD BE GOOD TO SEE THAT DOCUMENTATION.

WHILE THE ASSEMBLY ANNOUNCED ON FRIDAY THAT IT WILL BE SUSPENDING THE IMPEACHMENT INVESTIGATION AND SENDING ANY EVIDENCE IT HAS ON THE NUMBER OF ISSUES TO THE APPROPRIATE AUTHORITIES WHERE THINGS ARE ONGOING INTO MATTERS RELATED TO THE GOVERNOR AFTER GETTING A LOT OF BLOWBACK, THE SPEAKER ANNOUNCED ON MONDAY MORNING THAT THE ASSEMBLY WILL EVENTUALLY BE PUTTING FORWARD A REPORT OF ITS FINDINGS.

THERE IS STILL A LOT OF QUESTION MARKS AROUND HOW THE SPEAKER IS HANDLING THE IMPEACHMENT INVESTIGATION.

>> OKAY.

SO DR. GREER, WITH ALL THAT, THERE HAS BEEN SOME CRITICISM, PERHAPS, THAT ONE OF THE -- BECAUSE GOVERNOR CUOMO IS A VERY BIG FAN, LET'S SAY, OF CUTTING DEALS AND THAT PERHAPS ONE OF THE DEALS THAT WAS MADE WAS THAT HE WOULD RESIGN WITH THE POSSIBILITY OF BEING ABLE TO RUN FOR OFFICE AGAIN.

IS THAT WHAT WE'RE SEEING PLAYING OUT WITH THIS IMPEACHMENT SORT OF BEING PUT ON HOLD AND MAYBE JUST REPORT COMING BUT NOT A WHOLE TRIAL, ET CETERA?

>> I THINK THAT'S WHAT MANY PEOPLE BELIEVE IS HAPPENING RIGHT NOW.

I MEAN, IF YOU LOOK AT MY TWITTER FEED, EVERY MORNING I TWEET BEN BACK AND ASK HAS GOVERNOR CUOMO SUBMITTED HIS RESIGNATION LETTER?

THIS IS SOMETHING HE SAID HE WOULD DO WHEN HE MADE HIS PRESS CONFERENCE AND SAID HE WOULD RESIGN IN 14 DAYS.

BUT, BEN, CORRECT ME IF I'M WRONG, HE HAS YET TO SUBMIT HIS RESIGNATION LETTER.

THE GOVERNOR IS STILL THE GOVERNOR, AND HE SAID HE IS GOING TO RESIGN, BUT HE HAS NOT GONE THROUGH ANY OF THE PAPERWORK AND THE OFFICIAL STEPS TO DO SO.

SO THAT RAISES SERIOUS QUESTIONS AS TO IF HE WILL.

TWO, IS HE TRYING TO KEEP THE DOOR OPEN?

AND, THREE, IS HE TRYING TO USE THIS TWO-WEEK WINDOW TO NEGOTIATE WITH AS MANY PEOPLE AS POSSIBLE FOR HIS FUTURE.

WHETHER THAT'S CRIMINAL INVESTIGATIONS OR THE ABILITY TO RUN FOR OFFICE AGAIN, WHETHER THAT'S TAKING IMPEACHMENT OFF THE TABLE OR SOMETHING ELSE.

WE DO KNOW THAT ANDREW HAS BEEN IN OFFICE SINCE 19 YEARS OLD.

HE'S A MASTERFUL DEAL MAKER.

AND I THINK THAT HE WILL USE THIS NEXT FEW DAYS, I GUESS, TO TRY AND NEGOTIATE AS MANY POSSIBLE OUTCOMES FOR A POSITIVE FUTURE FOR HIMSELF AS NECESSARY.

BUT WE STILL HAVE LOTS OF QUESTIONS RAISED BECAUSE HE HAS NOT DONE ONE SIMPLE THING THAT'S NECESSARY FOR US TO MOVE FORWARD WITH KATHY HOCHUL AS THE NEW GOVERNOR OF THE STATE, WHICH IS SIGN THE PAPERWORK TO RESIGN.

>> WHAT ARE YOUR THOUGHTS OR, I GUESS, CONCERNS ABOUT THESE BACK AND FORTH MACHINATIONS IN ALBANY?

>> LOOK, I DON'T BELIEVE THAT HE IS TRYING TO NEGOTIATE ANY TERMS FOR HIM TO BE ABLE TO RUN FOR OFFICE IN NEW YORK IN THE FUTURE TO THE EXTENT THAT THE LEGISLATURE COULD BAR HIM FROM RUNNING FOR OFFICE, IT WOULD BE STATE OFFICE.

HE'S ALREADY BEEN THE ATTORNEY GENERAL OF THIS STATE.

HE'S ALREADY BEEN THE GOVERNOR OF THIS STATE FOR CLOSE TO -- CLOSE TO 12 YEARS.

SO ON SOME BASIS LEVEL, WHEN YOU REALLY LOOK AT WHAT IS TRANSPIRING HERE, I THINK IT'S MORE PROBABLY RELATED TO, PERHAPS, THE CIVIL AND/OR CRIMINAL MATTERS THAT HE MAY BE PERHAPS CONCERNED ABOUT.

AND I THINK ALSO, LOOK, TO GIVE HIM THE BENEFIT OF THE DOUBT, THERE MAY BE SOME CONCERN ABOUT MAKING SURE THAT DUCKS ARE IN ORDER SINCE WE ARE IN THE MIDDLE OF A NEW OUTBREAK OF THIS PANDEMIC.

SO I THINK WHAT REMAINS TO BE SEEN IS TO MY COLLEAGUE'S POINT, THE PAPERWORK.

IF YOU ARE GOING TO RESIGN IN 14 DAYS, CERTAINLY YOU CAN HAVE A LETTER RELEASED TO THE PUBLIC THAT DETAILS AS MUCH.

SO, AGAIN, IT'S A BIT PECULIAR, BUT I DON'T PARTICULARLY THINK THAT THERE IS GOING TO BE A SCENARIO WHERE HE TRIES TO WALK BACK THE RESIGNATION BECAUSE DOING THAT WOULD ONLY OPEN THE DOOR TO THE IMPEACHMENT HE'S TRYING TO AVOID AND REVEAL THE FACT THAT HE WAS NOT SINCERE IN WHAT HE SAID TO THE PEOPLE OF THIS STATE.

>> WELL, I HAVE TO SAY ALL OF YOU CONTINUE TO MAKE STATEMENTS THAT BLEED INTO THE NEXT SUBJECT.

OF COURSE THAT NEXT SUBJECT IS THE NEXT PHASE OF THIS PANDEMIC.

OF COURSE WE ARE SEEING THE DELTA VARIANT FILL HOSPITALS, PARTICULARLY IN THE GULF STATE REGION.

BUT WITH FALL AND WINTER COMING, ONE DOES WONDER WHAT HAPPENS HERE IN NEW YORK.

NOW, WE KNOW THAT THE CITY, NEW YORK CITY, IS GOING TO START REQUIRING VENUES TO CHECK PEOPLE FOR THEIR VACCINATION STATUS.

SO, JOSEPH, I'M GOING TO START WITH YOU AND ASK YOUR THOUGHTS ON THE FEASIBILITY OF BEING ABLE TO DO THIS.

THERE HAS ALREADY BEEN RUMORS THAT THERE ARE PEOPLE WHO HAVE BEEN BUSTED FOR TRYING TO BUY VACCINATION CARDS WHEN THEY WEREN'T VACCINATED.

THE FEASIBILITY OF DOING THIS AND IS IT TOO MUCH TO PUT ON SMALL BUSINESSES TO REQUIRE THEM TO CHECK PEOPLE TO ENSURE THAT THEY -- OF THEIR MEDICAL STATUS, BASICALLY?

>> I DON'T THINK THAT WE SHOULD BE REQUIRING PEOPLE GETTING PAID BETWEEN $12 AND $15 AN HOUR TO BE THE COVID VACCINE POLICE.

I THINK THAT'S AN UNDUE BURDEN.

AND ON SOME BASIC LEVEL, AGAIN, ONLY FEEDS THIS TYPE OF NEFARIOUS ACTIVITY THAT WE HAVE WITNESSED WITH PEOPLE EFFECTIVELY CREATING A BLACK MARKET OF FAKE COVID VACCINE CARDS OVERNIGHT.

I THINK WHAT NEEDS TO HAPPEN IS WE NEED TO ACKNOWLEDGE THE FACT THAT WE HAVE THREE POOLS OF PEOPLE.

WE HAVE THE PEOPLE THAT RAISE THEIR HAND TO GET A VACCINE WHO WANTED THE VACCINE BEFORE IT WAS AVAILABLE.

THE SECOND POOL OF PEOPLE WHO HAD QUESTIONS BUT ALSO LEANED IN THE INTEREST OF GETTING A VACCINE.

AND THEN THE THIRD POOL OF PEOPLE WHO WERE SAYING THAT THEY DID NOT WANT THE VACCINE AND WERE RECALLING.

WE HAVE MOVED THROUGH THE TWO POOLS OF PEOPLE.

WE HAVE THE LAST REMAINING, THE HESITANT.

AND THIS NOTION THAT SOMEHOW THAT WE -- THAT IT IS THE MISINFORMATION THAT'S FUELLING THE HESITANT, THE NOTION THAT IT IS THE POLITICS THAT'S FUELLING THE HESITANT, I REMIND PEOPLE CONSTANTLY.

YOU LOOK AT THE LOW VACCINATION RATES YOU HAVE AMONGST PEOPLE OF COLOR IN PLACES LIKE NEW YORK ALL ACROSS THIS COUNTRY, THE LOW VACCINATION RATES WE HAVE.

THEY ARE SIMILAR.

AND WHAT WE HAVE IS A SUBSET OF PEOPLE IN AMERICA WHO, THROUGH THEIR LIVED AMERICAN EXPERIENCE, HAS FOUND THAT THE GOVERNMENT HAS NOT BEEN KIND TO THEIR NEEDS AND HAS NOT HEEDED THEIR PAIN.

SO WE NEED TO HAVE A NEW FORM OF MESSAGING THAT UNDERSTANDS THAT THE LOW SLOWDOWN IS A DIRECT RESULT OF THE PEOPLE WHO WANTED THE SHOT HAVE GOTTEN THE SHOT.

AND NOW WE NEED TO START MESSAGING DIFFERENTLY TO EASE THE CONCERNS AND ADDRESS THE CONCERNS OF THOSE WHO HAVE NOT GOTTEN THE VACCINE.

AND THAT DOES NOT START BY DRUMMING PEOPLE OUT OF PUBLIC LIFE, BY TELLING THEM THEY CAN'T GET A LOAF OF BREAD WHEN THEY HAVE FAMILY THAT'S STARVING, BY TELLING THEM THEY CAN'T ACCESS THE EVERY DAY SERVICES THAT WE ARE ACCUSTOMED TO IN THIS NATION WHEN THERE ARE SO MANY PEOPLE, PARTICULARLY ON THAT LIST OF THE HESITANT, WHO HAVE GREAT, GREAT DEALS OF TROUBLE JUST TRYING TO SURVIVE IN A MID-PANDEMIC AMERICA.

>> DR. GREER, IS THAT A CORRECT ASSESSMENT IN YOUR OPINION, THAT PERHAPS MORE DRACONIAN MEASURES AGAINST THE UNVACCINATED IS NOT THE ANSWER?

OR IS THAT WHAT WE NEED TO DO TO MAKE BEING UNVACCINATED UNTENABLE FOR AMERICAN LIFE?

>> SORRY.

I HAD TO PUT YOU ALL IN NON MUT.

I'M IN BROOKLYN AND IT'S QUITE LOUD.

I HAVE BEEN SPEAKING TO FRIENDS WHO TEACH ETHICS.

I'M ATTORNEY BECAUSE SCIENCE AND FACTS HAVE SHOWN US THAT THE ONLY WAY WE MERGE OUT OF THIS, THE ONLY WAY WE CAN GET OUR HEALTH CARE SYSTEM BACK ON TRACK IS IF WE HAVE PEOPLE WHO ARE VACCINATED.

AND THOSE WHO ARE CHOOSING NOT TO IN A COUNTRY WITH AN ABUNDANCE OF VACCINES WHERE WE HAVE SEEN COUNTRIES ALL ACROSS THE GLOBE WHO WERE STRUGGLING TO GET THOSE VACCINES WE ARE THROWING IN THE TRASH SOME WEEKS IS VERY DISHEARTENING.

YES, AS JOE MENTIONED, THERE IS A BLACK MARKET FOR THESE VACCINE CARDS.

FOR PEOPLE THAT CHOOSE NOT TO, THERE IS A LONG CIRCLE OF DISTRUST, NOT JUST WITH THE GOVERNMENT BUT THE U.S. METRICS SYSTEM.

SO I'M REALLY TRYING TO ON THE ONE HANDHOLD PEOPLE'S RIGHTS AND CIVIL LIBERTIES AND FREEDOMS NEAR AND DEAR.

BUT ON THE OTHER HAND, AS A PROFESSOR, I CAN'T GET BACK TO MY NORMAL LIFE UNTIL WE HAVE COLLECTIVE ACTION, UNTIL WE HAVE PEOPLE WHO STOP BEING FREE RIDERS, WHO ACTUALLY THINK ABOUT THE GLOBAL GOOD AND THE GOOD OF THEIR FRIENDS AND NEIGHBORS AND GET VACCINATED.

SO I'M STILL TRYING TO THINK THROUGH WHAT IS FEASIBLY POSSIBLE WITHOUT OVERREACHING OBVIOUSLY AND BECOMING WHAT PEOPLE ARGUE IS A FASHS STATE BUT WE NEED THIS TO HAPPEN AND IF WE ARE EVER TO GET BACK TO SOME FORM OF NORMALCY, WE NEED PEOPLE TO UNDERSTAND THAT IT IS NECESSARY WITHOUT CREATING THESE BLACK MARKET SIDE DISTRACTIONS THAT ARE VERY REAL IN A LOT OF COMMUNITIES, IN DIVERSE COMMUNITIES, I SHOULD ARGUE AND NOT JUST FROM SOUTHERNERS OR NOT JUST TRUMP SUPPORTERS OR NOT JUST, YOU KNOW, UNEDUCATED GROUPS OF PEOPLE.

WE HAVE QUITE A DIVERSE GROUP OF PEOPLE THAT CHOOSE TO BE VACCINATED.

THAT'S PART OF WHAT WE'RE STRUGGLING WITH AS A NATION.

>> BEN, I WILL GIVE YOU THE LAST WORD AND ALSO ADD IN THE FACT THAT WE FIND SCHOOLS OF ALL PLACES BECOMING THIS NEW BATTLEGROUND OVER MASKING.

NEW YORK CITY SCHOOLS ARE SET TO OPEN SOON.

WHAT ARE YOUR THOUGHTS ON WHAT IS THE HEALTH-WISE OBLIGATION VERSUS PARENTS' RIGHTS WHEN IT COMES TO PUBLIC SCHOOLS?

>> WELL, LISTEN, WHETHER IT'S THE VACCINE MANDATE OR A MASK MANDATE IN SCHOOLS, THIS IS ABOUT PUBLIC HEALTH IN A VERY CONTAGIOUS DISEASE.

THIS IS NOT ABOUT SOMETHING WHERE IF SOMEONE IS SICK, IT DOESN'T INFECT OTHER PEOPLE.

THIS IS ABOUT THE PUBLIC GOOD AND PUBLIC HEALTH.

THERE IS A SERIES OF VACCINES THAT YOU NEED TO GO TO SCHOOL IN THIS COUNTRY.

AND, SO, THE IDEA THAT THE COVID VACCINE WILL BE ADDED TO THAT DOESN'T SEEM OUT OF THE NORM TO ME.

BUT, WE HAVE THIS PROBLEM WHERE THE YOUNGER POPULATION IS NOT YET ELIGIBLE FOR THE VACCINE.

SO YOU HAVE THE INCREASED FOCUS ON THE MASK WEARING.

AND THAT IS AT LEAST TEMPORARILY A SUBSTITUTE FOR MORE WIDE-SPREAD VACCINATION.

THIS SHOULDN'T REALLY BE CONTROVERSIAL AT THIS POINT BECAUSE THIS IS ABOUT TRYING TO SAVE PEOPLE'S LIVES.

WE HAVE SOMEHOW MADE THIS OVERPOLITICIZED WHEN THIS IS A VERY BASIC PUBLIC HEALTH MEASURE.

OF COURSE PEOPLE ARE TIRED OF MASKING.

ADULTS WHO HAVE BEEN ABLE TO GET VACCINATED HAVE ENJOYED NOT HAVING TO WEAR THEIR MASKS AS MUCH.

SURE.

BUT THIS IS ABOUT SAVING LIVES, ESPECIALLY AMONG KIDS OR AMONG TEACHERS AND STAFF WHO FOR SOME REASON CAN'T GET VACCINATED.

NOT UNWILLINGNESS, BUT CAN'T.

AGAIN, THIS IS A PUBLIC HEALTH MEASURE ABOUT THE LARGER PUBLIC GOOD AND NOT SPREADING A CONTAGIOUS DISEASE AND SHOULD NOT BE AS CONTENTION AS IT'S BEEN.

>> OF COURSE.

OF COURSE.

I WANT TO THANK ALL OF MY ROUND TABLE MEMBERS FOR JOINING US TODAY.

DR. GREER, PROFESSOR OF POLITICAL SCIENCE AND CO-HOUSE OF THE NYC PODCAST.

THANK YOU TO BEN MAX, EXECUTIVE EDITOR AND HOST OF THE MAX POLITICS PODCAST.

AND THANK YOU TO JOSEPH, A REPUBLICAN STRATEGIST, FORMER STATE ASSEMBLY CANDIDATE AND CHAIR OF THE CONSERVATIVE COLOR COALITION, WHICH PROMOTES POLITICAL ENGAGEMENT AMONG MINORITY GROUPS AS WELL AS ALLIES.

THANK YOU ALL SO MUCH FOR TAKING YOUR TIME TO JOIN US ON THE "METROFOCUS" MONDAY FRONT PAGE FORECAST.

>> THANKS, JENNA.

>> THANKS SO MUCH.

>>> "METROFOCUS" IS MADE POSSIBLE BY -- SUE AND EDGAR WACHENHEIM III.

SYLVIA A.

AND SIMON B. POYTA PROGRAMING ENDOWMENT TO FIGHT ANTI-SEMITISM.

THE PETER G. PETERSON AND JOAN GANZ COONEY FUND.

BERNARD AND DENISE SCHWARTZ.

BARBARA HOPE ZUCKERBERG.

THE AMBROSE MONELL FOUNDATION.

AND BY -- JANET PRINDLE SEIDLER.

JODY AND JOHN ARNHOLD.

CHERYL AND PHILIP MILSTEIN FAMILY.

JUDY AND JOSH WESTON.

DR. ROBERT C. AND TINA SOHN FOUNDATION.