>>> THIS IS "METROFOCUS" WITH RAFAEL PI ROMAN, JACK FORD AND JENNA FLANAGAN.

"METROFOCUS" IS MADE POSSIBLE BY -- >>> GOOD EVENING.

WELCOME TO "METROFOCUS."

I'M JACK FORD.

FRIENDSHIP IS THE FOUNDATION OF SO MUCH GOOD IN OUR LIVES, BUT COULD IT BE A KEY TO OVERCOMING WHITE SUPREMACY AND BUILDING A BETTER FUNCTIONING DEMOCRACY?

OUR NEXT GUEST, A FAMILIAR FACE HERE, MADE IT HIS MISSION TO ANALYZE TWO CENTURIES OF NOTE-WORTHY INTERRACIAL FRIENDSHIPS THAT HAVE SERVED AS MODELS FOR ADVANCING RACIAL EQUITY AND EQUALITY.

FROM THOMAS JEFFERSON AND BENJAMIN BANNEKER, THE FIRST SYMBOL OF BLACK EXCELLENCE TO HE WILL ELLA FITZGERALD AND MARILYN MONROE, WE SEE HOW AMERICAN ICONS HELPED BUILD A BETTER MULTI-RACIAL DEMOCRACY.

IN HIS NEW BOOK "STARS AND SHADOWS, THE POLITICS OF INTERRACIAL FRIENDSHIP, FROM JEFFERSON TO OBAMA."

FOR MORE ON THE BOOK AND HOW THE PAST CAN HELP SHAPE A BETTER FUTURE FOR US, IT'S OUR PLEASURE TO WELCOME BACK PROFESSOR AMBAR.

GOOD TO SEE YOU AGAIN.

>> GREAT TO SEE YOU, JACK.

ALWAYS GOOD TO BE ON "METROFOCUS."

>> LET'S START WITH THE QUESTION I ASK JUST ABOUT EVERY AUTHOR.

THAT IS, HOW AND WHY DID THIS BOOK COME ABOUT?

>> WELL, JACK, THE SHORT ANSWER IS THAT I HAD BEEN WORKING ON A PROJECT RELATED TO A MAN HAND HIS PROFESSOR.

IT LED ME TO CONSIDER OTHER RELATIONSHIPS ACROSS THE RACIAL LINE THAT MATTERED IN AMERICAN HISTORY.

THE DEEPER SIGNIFICANCE OF WHY I BEGAN THIS PROJECT HAD TO DO WITH WHERE I WAS IN MY OWN LIFE AND I THINK WHERE THE COUNTRY WAS IN TERMS OF ITS DIVISIONS AND LACK OF CONNECTIVITY AND SEEKING A WAY TO MARRY THE PERSONAL WITH THE POLITICAL THAT MIGHT ANSWER SOME QUESTIONS ABOUT HOW MULTIRACIAL DEMOCRACY IN AMERICA MIGHT WORK.

>> I GOTTA TELL YOU, I READ THE BOOK.

IT WAS MARVELLOUS.

IT WAS A WONDERFUL CONFLUENCE OF INFORMATION.

EACH PAGE I FOUND MYSELF -- I WAS A HISTORY MAJOR.

I TEACH AT YALE ABOUT TRIALS INTERWOVEN INTO HISTORY.

SO MANY OF THE STORIES I KNEW NOTHING ABOUT.

I FOUND THEM BOTH INCREDIBLY INFORMATIVE AND INCREDIBLY ENTERTAINING.

I WANT TO GET THAT OUT THERE FOR YOU.

YOU SUCCEEDED MAGNIFICENTLY IN WHAT YOU WANTED TO DO.

LET ME FOCUS A LITTLE BIT ON SOME OF THE STORIES.

YOU TAKE TEN RELATIONSHIPS HERE IN THIS BOOK.

STRETCHING OUT FROM THOMAS JEFFERSON AND ENDING WITH PRESIDENT OBAMA, THEN VICE PRESIDENT BIDEN.

LET ME ASK TO YOU SHINE A LIGHT ON A COUPLE OF THE STORIES, WHY YOU FELT THEY WERE IMPORTANT.

TO YOU AND TO US AS READERS.

LET'S START WHERE YOU START, AND THAT IS AS I MENTIONED, THOMAS JEFFERSON AND BENJAMIN BANNEKER.

TELL US WHY THAT WAS IMPORTANT, WHY YOU WANTED TO INCLUDE THAT RELATIONSHIP HERE.

>> HERE IS THOMAS JEFFERSON REALLY IN 1791 IS SECRETARY OF STATE, WELL-KNOWN AS THE AUTHOR OF THE DECLARATION OF INDEPENDENCE.

SOMEONE WHO HIRES BENJAMIN BANNEKER TO SERVE AS A SURVEYOR ON THE TEAM OF PEOPLE WHO ARE GOING TO OUTLINE WHAT WOULD BECOME THE BOUNDARIES OF WASHINGTON, D.C.

HE DEVELOPS THIS ADMIRATION FOR BANNEKER.

BANNEKER APPRECIATES THAT EFFORT ON JEFFERSON'S PART TO RECOGNIZE HIM.

BANNEKER WRITES TO JEFFERSON LATER ON RETURNING HOME FROM HIS SURVEYING EFFORTS IN WASHINGTON TO ADMONISH JEFFERSON ABOUT SLAVERY.

I THINK IT'S IMPORTANT BECAUSE THIS IS REALLY THE FIRST MOMENT IN WHICH AN AFRICAN AMERICAN REALLY LOCKS INTELLECTUAL ARMS, IF YOU WILL, WITH A FOUNDER OF THE AMERICAN REPUBLIC.

THERE'S A MOMENT IN THE EXCHANGE OF LETTERS WHERE NOT ONLY BANNEKER CHALLENGES JEFFERSON ON SLAVERY, BUT REALLY CALLS HIM TO TASK FOR BEING A HYPOCRITE FOR SOMEONE WHO SHOULD KNOW BETTER, FRANKLY.

SOMEONE WHO SIGNED THE DECLARATION OF INDEPENDENCE AND DOES NOTHING TO FORWARD HUMAN PROGRESS ALONG THE LINES OF LIBERTY.

JEFFERSON WRITES BACK AND SAYS TO BANNEKER, YOU KNOW, I MARVEL AT YOUR TALENT.

I WISH IN SO MANY WORDS THERE WERE MORE NEGROS LIKE YOU, ET CETERA.

HE GOES AND FORWARDS BANNEKER'S ALMANAC TO FRANCE, TO THE ACADEMY OF SCIENCES AND LAUDE BANNEKER.

WHAT HAPPENS IS THAT THIS RELATIONSHIP REALLY CAN'T GO MUCH FURTHER.

I THINK IT'S IN LARGE PART BECAUSE JEFFERSON IS UNWILLING TO TAKE THE POLITICAL RISKS WHICH WOULD COME WITH TRULY MAKING BANNEKER ONE OF HIS BRETHREN AS HE DESCRIBES IN THE LETTER.

IT'S THIS FIRST MOMENT, THIS FIRST FIT AND START IN AMERICAN NATIONAL POLITICS, WHERE THE POSSIBILITIES OF INTERRACIAL FRIENDSHIP ARE BEING POTENTIALLY DEMONSTRATED TO THE NATION AND THEN REALLY DRAWN BACK IN A WAY THAT I THINK SIGNIFIES THAT THE COUNTRY IS NOT PREPARED OR NOT WILLING TO BE PREPARED TO GO FURTHER WITH RESPECT TO EXPANDING THE BOUNDARIES OF RACIAL JUSTICE.

>> SO MUCH OF THIS RELATIONSHIP IS STARTLING IN MANY WAYS, INCLUDING THE FACT THAT JEFFERSON WROTE BACK TO HIM, WITHIN DAYS.

AGAIN, AS YOU SAID, IT'S NOT A RELATIONSHIP THAT LASTED.

BUT STILL, IT DID, AS I SAID, SHINE A LIGHT ON WHAT WAS GOING ON.

SPEAKING OF RELATIONSHIPS -- ONCES THAT WERE MORE GENUINE AND LASTED MORE, YOU ALSO WRITE ABOUT FREDERICK DOUGLAS AND -- BANNEKER, MAYBE THE FIRST MAN CELEBRATED FOR HIS ACCOMPLISHMENTS.

DOUGLAS PERHAPS THE MOST FAMOUS BLACK MAN IN THE WORLD AT THE TIME.

A RELATIONSHIP WITH ABRAHAM LINCOLN.

HOW DID THAT COME ABOUT?

>> IT CAME ABOUT OUT OF ANGER.

SOMETIMES FRIENDSHIPS COME FROM HONEST PLACES THAT ARE NOT NECESSARILY THE MOST PLEASANT.

DOUGLAS MEETS WITH LINCOLN IN 1863.

HE WANTS TO CALL LINCOLN TO TASK ON THE SUBJECT OF BLACK PAY.

BLACK SOLDIERS ARE PAID $3 FEWER THAN WHITE SOLDIERS.

HE ADMONISHES LINCOLN ABOUT THIS.

HERE IS THE DIFFERENCE.

LINCOLN PUSHES BACK AND HE ENGAGES IN AN HONEST EXCHANGE WITH DOUGLAS ABOUT HIS POSITION.

IN OTHER WORDS, FRIENDSHIP REQUIRES HONESTY.

IT REQUIRES TRUTH TELLING.

PEOPLE MAY DISAGREE AND REMAIN DISAGREEING FOR SOME TIME.

BUT IN THAT HONEST EXCHANGE COMES SOMETHING ELSE.

DOUGLAS LEAVES THE FIRST MEETING SAYING ABOUT LINCOLN, I FELT LIKE A MAN IN THERE.

I NEVER FELT CONSCIOUS OF MY RACE.

I FELT BIG IN THERE.

I WAS ACKNOWLEDGED FOR WHO I AM.

I WAS NEVER MADE CONSCIOUS THAT THERE WAS ANYTHING BETWEEN US IN TERMS OF RACIAL DISTINCTIVENESS.

THAT'S IMPORTANT.

BY THE TIME LINCOLN MEET DOUGLAS FOR THE SECOND TIME, THERE'S GREATER ADMIRATION AND LINCOLN IS ASKING DOUGLAS TO ASSIST HIM WITH BRINGING OUT OF SLAVERY AFRICAN AMERICANS IN THE SOUTH WHO ARE ON PLANTATIONS, ENSLAVED, TO HELP THEM ESCAPE TO UNION LIVES, TO THE UNION ARMY LIVES TO BE FREE AND STRIKE A DAGGER BLOW TO THE HEART OF THE CONFEDERACY.

YOU KNOW, LOOK, THIS IS A CRAZY PLAN.

BUT DOUGLAS CONSIDERS IT.

IT NEVER COMES TO PASS FOR A VARIETY OF REASONS.

BY THE THIRD MEETING AT THE SECOND INAUGURAL, LINCOLN DELIVERS IN MARCH OF 1865, DOUGLAS MEETS LINCOLN IN THE WHITE HOUSE AND HE TAKES SOME DOING TO GET IN THERE.

HE IS NOT ALLOWED IN.

HE IS TOLD HE IS NOT ALLOWED ADMISSION TO COLORED CITIZENS.

DOUGLAS SAYS THAT COULD NOT HAVE BEEN DELIVERED BY LINCOLN.

LINCOLN CALLS OUT TO DOUGLAS.

HE SAYS, IS THERE MY FRIEND DOUGLAS.

POWERFUL AND SIGNIFICANT MOMENT IN AMERICAN HISTORY, BECAUSE THE PRESIDENT IS NOW SORT OF ARTICULATING WITH THAT NEW BIRTH OF FREEDOM THAT HE SUGGESTED HAD TO HAPPEN AT GETTYSBURG WOULD LOOK LIKE.

IT WOULD INVOLVE MORE THAN JUST POLITICAL FREEDOM.

IT WOULD INVOLVE FRIENDSHIP.

>> THE RELATIONSHIPS WE TALKED ABOUT, SOME OF THE OTHERS IN THE BOOK, ARE ALL FOCUSED ON, TO SOME EXTENT POLITICS.

THERE'S OTHERS THAT ARE NOT NECESSARILY POLITICAL BUT HAD AN IMPACT.

I THINK ONE OF THE MORE FASCINATING ONES, ELLA FITZGERALD AND MARILYN MONROE.

AN URBAN LEGEND THAT YOU DIG DEEPER INTO.

GIVE US A QUICK SENSE OF WHAT THAT IS ABOUT.

>> THE URBAN LEGEND AND WHAT SOCIAL MEDIA OFTEN GETS WRONG ABOUT THE RELATIONSHIP IS THAT MARILYN MONROE SAVED THE CAREER OF ELLA FITZGERALD BY TELLING THE OWNER AT THE MACOMBO CLAIM IN LOS ANGELES IN HOLLYWOOD THAT SHE, MARILYN MONROE, WOULD NOT EVER GRACE THE PRESENCE OF THAT CLUB AGAIN UNLESS THEY ALLOWED ELLA FITZGERALD TO SING, BECAUSE THEY HAD A RACIAL BAN AGAINST BLACK ARTISTS.

THAT'S NOT QUITE WHAT HAPPENED.

WHAT REALLY HAPPENS IS THAT FITZGERALD IS BLACKBALLED, IF YOU WILL, FROM ATTENDING AND PARTICIPATING AS A SINGER.

BUT IT'S BECAUSE SHE'S NOT SEXUALIZED ENOUGH.

SHE'S NOT THE KIND OF SHOW GIRL PRESENCE THAT THEY ARE LOOKING FOR.

BECAUSE THERE HAD BEEN BLACK SINGERS THERE.

NEVERTHELESS, MARILYN MONROE DOES REACH OUT AND SAY, YOU KNOW, I WILL USE ALL OF MY POWER TO SUPPORT YOU WITH MY HOLLYWOOD FRIENDS AND ARTISTS IF YOU GRANT HER ADMISSION AND LET HER SING.

THAT DOES HAPPEN.

WE GET SOME OF IT WRONG, BUT ULTIMATELY, MARILYN MONROE GETS IT RIGHT.

SHE GETS IT RIGHT FOR DIFFERENT REASONS THAN THE STORY WE TELL OURSELVES ABOUT THIS PARTICULAR INTERRACIAL FRIENDSHIP, BUT SHE GETS IT RIGHT, NONETHELESS.

I THINK IT SUGGESTS THE FACT THAT SHE, HERSELF, WAS A LOT DEEPER AND MORE SIGNIFICANT A PERSONALITY THAN GIVEN CREDIT FOR BEING GIVEN HOW SHE'S BEEN SO, YOU KNOW, REDUCED TO HER LOOKS OVER THE DECADES.

>> WE WRESTLE WITH, WHAT CAN WE DO?

ARE THERE THINGS WE CAN DO?

ELSE IN OUR CURRENT ENVIRONMENT, WHICH IS SO FRAUGHT WITH TENSION AND EVEN HOSTILITY.

YOU TALK IN THE BOOK ABOUT THE NOTION THAT THERE NEEDS TO BE A COMMAND FOR US TO TALK TO STRANGERS.

WHAT DO YOU MEAN BY THAT?

WHY IS THAT IMPORTANT?

>> I TAKE THAT TERM FROM DANIELLE I'LL ALLEN'S BOOK.

TALKING TO STRANGERS IS THE BLOCKING AND TACKLING OF DEMOCRACY.

WHEN YOUR INSTITUTIONS ARE FAILING, WHEN SO MUCH IS GOING WRONG IN A MULTIRACIAL DEMOCRACY, YOU GOTTA BEGIN TO ASK THE FUNDAMENTAL QUESTIONS.

WHAT IS AT THE HEART OF WHO WE ARE?

AT THE HEART IS IN THE IDEA OF CITIZENSHIP TIED TO FRATERNITY, THE FRENCH REVOLUTIONARIES THOUGHT OF IT, BROTHERHOOD, SISTERHOOD, WHO WE ARE AS HUMAN BEINGS, SOMETHING THAT IS DEEPER THAN JUST INSTITUTIONS.

I JUST TAUGHT LINCOLN'S SECOND INAUGURAL ADDRESS.

THE LAST WORDS OF THAT ADDRESS ARE, WITH MALICE TOWARD NONE.

THAT'S A GOOD START.

WITH MALICE TOWARD NONE.

DON'T HATE.

BUT LINCOLN GOES FURTHER.

WITH CHARITY FOR ALL.

MALICE TOWARD NONE IS PASSIVE.

CHARITY FOR ALL IS SUGGESTIVE OF SOMETHING THAT REQUIRES OUR ENERGIES.

THAT'S WHAT FRIENDSHIP DOES.

IT REQUIRES OUR FOCUS AND ENERGIES TO DIRECT OURSELVES TOWARDS A BETTER FUTURE.

>> LINCOLN'S LAST WORDS.

THAT WILL HAVE TO BE OUR LAST WORDS.

PROFESSOR, "STARS AND SHADOWS, POLITICS OF INTERRACIAL FRIENDSHIP FROM JEFFERSON TO OBAMA."

IT'S A MARVELLOUS READ.

ALWAYS GOOD TO TALK WITH YOU.

YOU TAKE CARE.

>> LIKEWISE, JACK.

THANK YOU.

>>> IT'S TRULY REMARKABLE JUST HOW QUICKLY A CORONAVIRUS VACCINE WAS DEVELOPED.

TO SOME IN THE MEDICAL COMMUNITY, IT WAS NOT NECESSARILY A SURPRISE.

UNLIKE OTHER MEDICAL RESEARCH PROJECTS, SCIENTISTS AROUND THE WORLD SHARED THEIR VACCINE DATA WITH EACH OTHER.

HELPING TO SPEED UP THE PROCESS AND ENSURING THAT EVERYONE WAS WORKING WITH THE BEST POSSIBLE INFORMATION.

SHARING THIS DATA IS TYPICALLY RARE.

SOME SCIENTISTS ARE ARGUING IT DOESN'T HAVE TO BE THAT WAY.

ONE SUCH SCIENTIST IS DR. BACHER, THE PRESIDENT OF THE CHILDREN'S TUMOR FOUNDATION IN NEW YORK CITY.

SHE BELIEVES THAT LEANING INTO NEW IDEAS SUCH AS SHARING RESEARCH DATA AND REPURPOSING DISCONTINUED MEDICATIONS COULD NOT ONLY HELP US COME UP WITH TREATMENTS FASTER, BUT COULD EVEN BE THE KEY TO SOLVING SOME OF THE WORLD'S RAREST DISEASES.

WE ARE DELIGHTED TO HAVE HER JOINING US TONIGHT.

DOCTOR, WELCOME.

THANKS FOR JOINING US.

>> THANK YOU.

THANK YOU SO MUCH.

I'M DELIGHTED TO BE HERE.

>> THERE'S A LOT I WANT TO TALK ABOUT.

LET ME START WITH WHAT I MENTIONED.

AGAIN, PEOPLE MIGHT BE AWARE OF THIS.

IT GOT PUBLICITY DURING THE TIME.

THIS WAS AN EXTRAORDINARY SWIFT PROCESS TO DEVELOP THE VACCINE HERE.

WHY WAS IT SO SWIFT?

WHAT WAS IT THAT HAPPENED HERE THAT WE GENERALLY DON'T SEE WITH REGARD TO THE DEVELOPMENT OF VACCINES?

>> SO WITH A NORMAL DRUG DISCOVERY PROCESS TAKES ABOUT 15 YEARS TO GET FROM CONCEPT TO MARKET OF DRUG.

THAT'S A NORMAL TIME.

I THINK WHAT WE SAW WITH COVID IS THAT SINCE THIS WAS SUCH AN INCREDIBLE PROBLEM, A PANDEMIC, THE WORLDWIDE ECONOMY WAS FLAT, EVERYBODY WAS STUCK IN THEIR HOUSES, IT WAS COSTING US BILLIONS OF DOLLARS.

THAT HAS CREATED A MOVEMENT.

HONESTLY, SOME OF THAT MAY NOT BE ABLE TO APPLY OR TO STAY FOR THE REST OF OUR INDICATIONS, BECAUSE THE ENTIRE RESEARCH ENTERPRISE WAS ALMOST PUT ON HOLD, TO FIGURE OUT THIS COVID PROBLEM.

GIVING ONE EXAMPLE, LABS WERE NOT GETTING SUPPLIES ANYMORE BECAUSE THEY WERE SUPPLIES GOING TO PCR TESTING.

ALL THE PLASTICS WERE GOING TO, LET'S DEVELOP THIS VACCINE, ALL THIS LAB MATERIALS WERE FOCUSED ON COVID.

THERE WAS AN ENORMOUS AMOUNT OF MONEY PUT ON THE TABLE BY GOVERNMENTS TO SAY, YOU NEED TO FIX THIS.

WHAT WE DID SEE IS A MOVEMENT OF DATA SHARING, REPOSITIONING DRUGS.

EVERYBODY WHO HAD A DRUG ON THEIR SHELF OR IN THE FRIDGE THAT COULD HELP COVID PATIENTS WAS SUDDENLY THERE TO PROVIDE DRUGS TO THE PATIENT.

THAT MADE ME THINK.

WHAT MADE ME THINK IS, CAN WE PLEASE NOT GO BACK TO 2019?

RIGHT?

CAN WE PLEASE LEARN SOMETHING FROM THIS COVID SITUATION AND DO BETTER FOR THE PATIENTS IN THE FUTURE?

>> WHY IS IT THEN -- LET'S TALK ABOUT PRE-COVID.

SOME OF THIS MIGHT SEEM OBVIOUS.

WHY IS IT -- LET'S LOOK AT THE PHARMACEUTICAL COMPANIES.

THEN I WILL ASK ABOUT THE ACADEMIC WORLD.

WHY HAVE THEY NOT BEEN DOING THIS ALL THE TIME?

>> IT'S A SYSTEM.

I ALWAYS SAY, THE PROBLEM IS NOT THE PEOPLE.

PEOPLE WANT TO COLLABORATE.

PEOPLE WANT TO DO THE RIGHT THING FOR THE PATIENTS.

PEOPLE ARE NOT THE PROBLEM.

IT'S THE SYSTEM.

THAT IS WHAT WE AT THE FOUNDATION HAVE BEEN TRYING TO SOLVE.

THERE ARE SOME MAJOR SYSTEM CHANGES THAT WE HAVE TO LOOK AT IF WE WANT TO MAKE THIS HAPPEN OR IF WE WANT TO MAKE COMPANIES REPURPOSE THEIR DRUGS, REPOSITION THEIR DRUGS.

IF WE WANT RESEARCHERS TO COLLABORATE, IF WE WANT PEOPLE TO SHARE THEIR UNPUBLISHED DATA, IF WE WANT COMPANIES TO OPEN UP THEIR DRUG CRATE, THOSE ARE SYSTEMATIC PROBLEMS.

THOSE ARE NOT PEOPLE PROBLEMS.

WE ARE, IN FACT, IF WE WANT PEOPLE TO BEHAVE DIFFERENT, WE HAVE TO INCENTIVIZE THEM.

>> I THINK THAT MAKES SENSE, CERTAINLY WHEN YOU TALK ABOUT THE PHARMACEUTICAL COMPANIES.

IT USUALLY TAKES 15 YEARS.

THERE'S AN ENORMOUS AMOUNT OF INVESTMENT INTO THE DEVELOPMENT PROCESS.

IF IT DOESN'T WORK OUT, THEN THEY ARE NOT GOING TO GET PROFITS OFF OF THAT.

THEY ARE BUSINESSES, AFTER ALL.

YOU CAN UNDERSTAND THAT.

WHAT ABOUT IN THE ACADEMIC WORLD?

THAT MIGHT BE MORE DIFFICULT FOR PEOPLE WHO ARE NOT IN THAT WORLD TO UNDERSTAND.

WHY IS THERE NOT AN INCENTIVE -- THAT'S A GOOD WAY TO DO IT -- FOR THE PEOPLE IN THE ACADEMIC WORLD WHO ARE DOING RESEARCH TO SHARE IT WITH OTHERS?

WHY NOT?

>> THE DATA SHARING IS HAPPENING.

>> OKAY.

>> THE DATA SHARING TO ME IS HAPPENING TOO LATE.

BASICALLY WHAT HAPPENS IS THAT ACADEMIC INSTITUTIONS DEPEND ON GOVERNMENT FUND, FOUNDATION FUNDING.

IN ORDER TO GET ACCESS TO FUNDING, YOU HAVE TO SHOW THAT YOU ARE A SUCCESSFUL RESEARCHER.

IN ORDER TO SHOW THAT YOU ARE A SUCCESSFUL RESEARCHER, YOU HAVE TO PUBLISH.

THE PUBLICATIONS ARE KIND OF WRITE UP YOUR STORY OF THE WORK YOU HAVE DONE, THE GREAT RESULTS, THAT GETS INTO JOURNALS.

PEOPLE KNOW JOURNALS LIKE "NATURE" AND ALL THIS OTHER JOURNALS.

THE MORE IMPORTANT THE JOURNAL IS YOU PUBLISH IN, THE MORE YOU ARE AN ESTEEMED RESEARCHER.

THERE'S ONE TRICK IS THAT THE ORDER OF THE AUTHORS ON THOSE PUBLICATIONS MATTERS.

THE AUTHOR, THE FIRST AND LAST, ARE TYPICALLY THE MOST IMPORTANT.

NOW YOU HAVE TO TELL ME, HOW YOU CAN EXPECT PEOPLE TO COLLABORATE WITH MORE THAN TWO IF THE FIRST AND THE LAST AUTHOR ARE THE TWO THAT MATTER MOST WHEN IT COMES TO A PUBLICATION?

THAT IS A SYSTEM PROBLEM.

>> PEOPLE MIGHT BE FAMILIAR WITH THE TERM PUBLISHER PERISH IN THE ACADEMIC WORLD.

YOU NEED TO BE DOING RESEARCH.

YOU NEED TO BE PUBLISHING.

YOU NEED TO DO ORIGINAL RESEARCH AND FINDING NEW THINGS.

>> CORRECT.

>> AS YOU MENTIONED.

WHAT IS THE INCENTIVE FOR ME IF I'M DOING THIS RESEARCH, AND I'M GETTING CLOSE TO SOMETHING, WHAT'S THE INCENTIVE TO SHARE IT WITH YOU WHEN IT MAY WELL QUITE LITERALLY HAVE AN IMPACT ON MY CAREER?

HOW DO WE INCENTIVIZE PEOPLE IN THAT WORLD WHO ARE DOING THIS RESEARCH?

HOW DO WE GET THEM TO SAY, I'M GOING TO SHARE IT?

HOW DO WE DO THAT?

>> WHAT WE DID IN THE FOUNDATION IS WE CREATED A NEW COLLABORATIVE MODEL THAT WAS CALLED SINOTOS, WORKING TOGETHER IN HARMONY.

THE IDEA WAS, YOUR PROBLEM, MR. AND MRS.

RESEARCHER, IS FUNDING.

AT THE END OF THE DAY, THAT IS WHAT YOU NEED TO KEEP YOUR LAB RUNNING.

RIGHT?

WE SAID, OKAY, THE FUNDING PROBLEM WE'RE GOING TO SOLVE.

WE'RE GOING TO NOT GIVE YOU 50 OR $100,000.

WE'RE GOING TO GIVE YOU $3 MILLION.

THE SECOND THING WE DID IS WE SAID, WE ARE GOING TO WORK WITH THE YOU BE PUBLICATION HOUSES THAT WE ARE GOING TO HAVE THE AUTHORS ON THE PUBLICATION IN ALPHABETICAL ORDER.

THE ASTROPHYSICISTS CAN DO IT.

WHY CAN'T THE BIOMEDICAL PEOPLE DO IT?

I'M INVITING LITERALLY THE PUBLICATION HOUSES WHO HAVE DONE IT WITH.

OTHERS CAN DO IT AND THEY HAVE TO DO IT IF THEY WANT TO HELP THE COMMUNITY TO HAVE THIS UNPUBLISHED DATA AND HAVE THIS PROBLEM OF PUBLICATION AND AUTHORSHIPS.

BECAUSE IT CAN BECOME WORSE ABOUT WHO IS FIRST AND LAST IF YOU WORK TOGETHER WITH A BIG COLLABORATIVE CONSORTIUM, YOU CAN ONLY IMAGINE HOW HARD IT IS.

THE THIRD THING WE DID IS WE WORKED WITH OUR PATIENT COMMUNITY AND WE SAID, YOU GUYS ARE THE CLIENTS.

HELP US.

THE PATIENTS CAME IN, COLLABORATED WITH US TO DEFINE WHAT THE PROBLEM IS.

THEN WE WENT OUT TO THE COMMUNITY AND WE SAID, THIS IS THE PROBLEM.

SOLVE IT.

BUT YOU REALLY HAVE TO BE FROM ALL OVER THE GLOBE.

I COMPARE IT WHEN I TALK TO MY DONORS, I COMPARE IT TO A FOOTBALL TEAM.

RIGHT?

NOT ALL THE FOOTBALL TEAM MEMBERS COME FROM NEW YORK.

THEY COME FROM ALL OVER.

WHY DO YOU THINK THAT IN SCIENCE THIS IS DIFFERENT?

RIGHT?

THAT IS WHERE WE CREATED AN ENVIRONMENT OF PEOPLE FROM ALL OVER THE WORLD THAT COLLABORATE.

THE DATA SHARING, WE CREATED A DATA PORTAL WHERE WE INVITED EVERYBODY TO SHARE THEIR DATA, EVEN PRE-PUBLICATION.

I CAN TELL YOU THAT IN THE BEGIN, WHEN WE ASKED THAT, IT FELT A LITTLE BIT LIKE ASKING PEOPLE TO SHARE THEIR TOOTHBRUSH.

>> BUT YOU ARE SEEING SOME -- MAYBE SOME THAWING IN THE PROCESS?

>> ABSOLUTELY.

>> ANOTHER THING YOU MENTIONED.

THE IDEA OF SHARING MEDICATIONS.

THERE'S A TERM THAT I SAW WHEN I WAS DOING RESEARCH FOR OUR CONVERSATION ABOUT SHELVED ASSETS.

EXPLAIN TO US WHAT THAT MEANS AND HOW YOU ARE SUGGESTING AND OTHERS ARE SUGGESTING THAT COULD BE CHANGED BENEFICIALLY.

>> A SHELVED ASSET IN OUR DEFINITION IS A DRUG THAT IS A GOOD DRUG, BUT SAFE AND HAS SOME INDICATION, HAS SOME PATENT LIFE.

IT'S A GOOD DRUG.

BUT SINCE MANY COMPANIES ARE WORKING ON VERY SIMILAR DRUGS, WHEN A COMPANY SEES THAT THERE IS NOT REALLY A MARKET OPPORTUNITY, THAT THERE'S NOT A STRATEGIC WIN HERE, THEN THE COMPANY PUTS THAT ON SHELF AND SAYS, SORRY, WE WILL NOT BE ABLE TO WIN THIS GAME.

WE ARE NOT GOING TO DEVELOP THIS PRODUCT FURTHER BECAUSE AS YOU KNOW, A PHARMACEUTICAL COMPANY IS IN THE BUSINESS OF PATIENTS, BUT IS ALSO IN THE BUSINESS OF BUSINESS.

THEY HAVE TO MAKE MONEY TO DEVELOP THE NEXT GENERATION OF DRUGS.

THEY JUST LOOK AT THESE DIFFERENT DRUGS AND THEY ARE LIKE, OKAY, FOR THIS DRUG, THIS COMPANY IS WINNING, THIS COMPANY IS SECOND.

WE'RE GOING TO BE THIRD, WE'RE NOT GOING TO DO IT ANYMORE.

THEY PUT THAT DRUG ON THE SHELF.

NOW, SOME OF THESE DRUGS ARE REALLY GOOD DRUGS.

VERY GOOD DRUGS FOR ESPECIALLY PATIENTS WITH RARE DISEASE.

WHAT WE HAVE BEEN ADVOCATING FOR IS TO TALK TO COMPANIES TO WORK WITH COMPANIES, TAKE THOSE DRUGS AND PUT THEM BACK INTO THE DEVELOPMENT SO THAT THESE DRUGS CAN ACTUALLY BE DEVELOPED FOR RARE DISEASE AND NOT DIE UNDER THE DUST.

>> LET'S GO BACK TO INCENTIVIZING.

WHAT HAS TO BE DONE TO IN INCENTIVIZE THE DRUG COMPANIES?

HOW DO WE DO THAT?

>> WE HAVE DONE IT ONCE SUCCESSFULLY.

IT WAS HARD.

WE WORKED WITH PFIZER.

THEY HAD THE DRUG THAT WE ARE NOW DEVELOPING.

IT WAS ON THE SHELF OR WAS GOING TO BE ON THE SHELF.

SO I WORKED WITH BOTH THE CHIEF MEDICAL OFFICER, HIGH LEVEL PEOPLE IN THE COMPANY, THAT WOULD AGREE WITH US THAT THIS DRUG WAS A GOOD DRUG FOR THE NF COMMUNITY.

THEN WE BROUGHT IN THE CLINICIANS AND PATIENTS AND EVERYBODY TO MAKE SURE THAT THAT DRUG WOULD NOT GET FORGOTTEN.

>> ONE SECOND.

YOU MENTION THE NF COMMUNITY.

WHAT ARE WE TALKING ABOUT?

>> THE FOCUS OF OUR FOUNDATION IS THE CHILDREN'S TUMOR FOUNDATION.

WE ARE FOCUSING ON A RARE GENETIC DISORDER.

NF IS A FAMILY OF THREE DISORDERS.

IT'S ONE OF THE TYPICAL RARE DISORDERS, WHICH MEANS AFFECTING MULTI-SYSTEMS.

AND ALSO PROGRESSIVE IN NATURE.

THE COMMONALITY BETWEEN THE THREE IS THAT THEY DEVELOP TUMORS ON NERVES.

THE BIOLOGY IS HIGHLY OVERLAPPING WITH BIOLOGY IN THE ONCOLOGY SPACE, IN THE CANCER SPACE.

SO THAT IS WHY WE HAVE BEEN BANGING ON THE DOOR OF EVERY COMPANY WITH ONCOLOGY DRUG SAYING, WE WANT YOUR DRUG.

THAT'S WHY I'M OBSESSED WITH THIS CONCEPT.

I SEE THE DRUGS AND I WANT THEM.

>> WE HAVE ABOUT TWO MINUTES HERE.

LET ME ASK YOU A LAST QUESTION, IF I CAN.

WE HAVE TALKED BRIEFLY ABOUT THE ROLE OF NON-PROFITS.

YOUR ORGANIZATION.

YOU ARE WORKING WITH SOMETHING CALLED THE BRIDGE INITIATIVE.

I GOT ABOUT A MINUTE AND A HALF.

GIVE ME A SENSE OF WHAT YOU THINK CAN BE DONE WITH THE EFFORTS OF THE NON-PROFITS, INCLUDING YOURSELF AND THE BRIDGE INITIATIVE.

>> SO WHERE I SEE THE ROLE OF THE NON-PROFITS IS THAT WE ARE -- WE SHOULD BE SEEN AS BUSINESS PARTNERS.

PATIENT ADVOCACY ORGANIZATIONS ALSO BUT AS BUSINESS PARTNERS.

BUSINESS PARTNERS WHO HAVE ONE CLIENT, THE PATIENT.

I THINK WHAT WE CAN DO IS NOT ONLY HELP COMPANIES IDENTIFY WHICH DRUGS ARE ON THEIR SHELVES THAT COULD BE VALUABLE FOR NF, AND WE WILL HELP THEM WITH AN ENABLING PLATFORM WE HAVE DEVELOPED TO MAKE THAT HAPPEN.

WE HAVE ALSO BUILT FRIENDSHIPS WITH SOME OF THE INVESTOR COMMUNITY SO THAT THERE IS SOME MONEY, IF THEY GIVE OR THEY ALLOW US TO REUSE THE DRUG FOR NF.

WE HAVE INVESTORS WILLING TO INVEST IN IT.

WE HAVE FIGURED A PLATFORM HERE TO MAKE SURE THAT WE CAN GET THOSE DRUGS.

WHAT WE'RE TRYING TO EXPLORE NOW IS, CAN WE REALLY HELP THE PHARMACEUTICAL COMMUNITY INCREASE THEIR ESG SCORE IF THEY WOULD BE WILLING TO WORK WITH US?

I CAN'T WAIT TO -- WE ARE TALKING TO A LOT OF COMPANIES NOW.

THERE IS STARTING TO BE WARMING UP TO THE IDEA.

IT'S MAYBE A GOOD IDEA.

>> THEY ARE ALL WONDERFUL IDEAS.

WE APPRECIATE THE WORK THAT YOU ARE DOING, YOUR ORGANIZATION, OTHER ORGANIZATIONS IN HELPING TO SHINE A LIGHT ON THIS AND PERHAPS OPEN UP THE MINDS OF OTHERS.

ONCE AGAIN, THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR SPENDING TIME WITH US.

YOU HAVE BEEN VERY HELPFUL IN GETTING US TO UNDERSTAND ALL THIS.

GOOD LUCK TO YOU.

I HOPE TO GET YOU BACK.

WE WILL TALK MORE ABOUT THE PROGRESS YOU ARE MAKING.

>> THANK YOU.

♪♪ >> "METROFOCUS" IS MADE POSSIBLE