>>> TONIGHT, HAS ANTI-SEMITISM GONE MAINSTREAM?

WE EXPLORE THE RECENT SURGE IN ANTI-JEWISH HATE FROM KANYE WEST PRAISING HITLER TO FORMER PRESIDENT DONALD TRUMP DINING WITH A WHITE SUPREMACIST.

WHY ANTI-SEMITISM SEEMS TO BE MOVING FROM THE FRINGES INTO POPULAR CULTURE, AND WHAT CAN BE DONE TO STOP IT.

"METROFOCUS" STARTS RIGHT NOW.

♪♪ >>> THIS IS "METROFOCUS" WITH RAFAEL PI ROMAN, JACK FORD, AND JENNA FLANAGAN.

>>"METROFOCUS" IS MADE POSSIBLE BY -- SUE AND EDGAR WACHENHEIM III, SYLVIA A.

AND SIMON B. POYTA PROGRAMING ENDOWMENT TO FIGHT ANTI-SEMITISM.

THE PETER G. PETERSON AND JOAN GANZ COONEY FUND.

BERNARD AND DENISE SCHWARTZ, BARBARA HOPE ZUCKERBERG, JANET THE AMNELL ROSE FOUNDATION.

AND BY -- ♪♪ >>> GOOD EVENING AND WELCOME TO "METROFOCUS."

I'M JENNA FLANAGAN.

IS ANTI-SEMITISM BECOMING NORMALIZED IN MAINSTREAM CULTURE?

THAT'S THE PREVAILING FEELING AMONG JEWISH LEADERS AND ALLIES AS CELEBRITIES, POLITICIANS, AND MEDIA PERSONALITIES INCREASINGLY AMPLIFY ANTI-SEMITIC RHETORIC, OR GIVE PLATFORMS TO KNOWN ANTI-SEMITES.

RAPPER YE, AKA KANYE WEST PRAISE OF HITLER AND A LONG STRING OF ANTI-SEMITIC COMMENTS AND THREATS IS ONLY THE TIP OF THE ICEBERG.

PRESIDENT DONALD TRUMP'S NOW INFAMOUS DINNER WITH YE, FORMERLY KANYE, AND A NOTORIOUS WHITE NATIONALIST AND HOLOCAUST DENIER NICK FUENTES, OR COMEDIAN DAVE CHAPPELLE WHO ELEVATED ANTI-SEMITIC TROPES ON "SATURDAY NIGHT LIVE."

OR BROOKLYN NETS BASKETBALL STAR KYRIE IRVING WHO WAS SUSPENDED AFTER SHARING A LINK TO A MOVIE THAT DENIES THE HOLOCAUST EVER HAPPENED.

AND THEY'RE NOT THE ONLY ONES.

PUT TOGETHER, IT SEEMS LIKE AMERICA IS EXPERIENCING AN UNPRECEDENTED LEVEL OF VERY PUBLIC ANTI-SEMITISM.

NOW FOR MANY JEWISH PEOPLE ACROSS THE COUNTRY, THESE ARE UNSETTLING TIMES.

BUT WHAT ARE THE REASONS FOR THIS APPARENT MAINSTREAMING OF ANTI-SEMITISM?

WHY NOW?

WHAT ARE THE CONSEQUENCES?

AND PERHAPS MOST IMPORTANTLY, WHAT CAN BE DONE ABOUT IT?

SO WITH ME TONIGHT AS PART OF OUR ONGOING EXPLORING HATE INITIATIVE EXAMINING THE INTERSECTION OF ANTI-SEMITISM, RACISM, AND EXTREMISM IN AMERICA ARE THREE INDIVIDUALS WHO HAVE BEEN THINKING, WRITING, AND WORKING AROUND THESE ISSUES FOR YEARS AND ARE VERY CONCERNED AT WHAT THEY SEE.

FIRST WE HAVE ERIC WARD.

ERIC IS THE EXECUTIVE VICE PRESIDENT OF THE RACIAL JUSTICE ORGANIZATION ON RACE FORWARD AND SENIOR ADVISER FOR THE ADVOCACY GROUP WESTERN STATE CENTER.

HE HAS SPENT DECADES INVESTIGATING WHITE SUPREMACIST MOVEMENTS IN AMERICA.

WELCOME TO THE SHOW, ERIC.

>> THANK YOU.

IT'S A PLEASURE TO BE WITH YOU.

>> ABSOLUTELY.

I'D ALSO LIKE TO WELCOME YAIR ROSENBERG.

HE IS A CONTRIBUTING WRITER AT THE "ATLANTIC," AND HE RECENTLY WROTE A MUCH TALKED ABOUT PIECE ABOUT DAVE CHAPPELLE'S CONTROVERSIAL MONOLOGUE ON "SNL" CALLED "CHAPPELLE WAS RIGHT, IT REALLY IS GETTING HARDER TO JOKE ABOUT ANTI-SEMITISM," JUST NOT FOR THE REASONS HE THINKS.

YAIR, WELCOME TO "METROFOCUS."

>> GOOD TO BE HERE.

>> AND OF COURSE LAST BUT NOT LEAST, PROFESSOR AND HISTORIAN PAMELA NADELL.

SHE IS THE CHAIR ON WOMEN'S AND GENDER HISTORY AND DIRECTOR OF THE JEWISH STUDIES PROGRAM AT AMERICAN UNIVERSITY, AND SHE IS CURRENTLY WORKING ON A BOOK ON THE HISTORY OF AMERICAN ANTI-SEMITISM.

SO WELCOME TO EVERYONE.

>> THANK YOU.

IT'S WONDERFUL TO BE WITH YOU.

>> ABSOLUTELY.

SO FIRST I WANT TO, PAMELA, JUST GET YOUR TAKE.

AS I WAS SAYING ON JUST THIS RISE THAT AMERICA SEEMS TO BE HAVING WITH PEOPLE BEING QUITE OPEN AND FREE WITH ANTI-SEMITISM.

WHAT IS YOUR REACTION TO THAT?

>> JENNA, THIS IS SUCH A DIFFICULT TIME FOR AMERICAN JEWS, BUT ACTUALLY FOR ALL AMERICANS.

AND WHAT JUMPS OUT AT ME IS THAT HISTORIANS USED TO CALL THE YEARS BETWEEN WORLD WAR I AND WORLD WAR II THE HIGH TIDE OF AMERICAN ANTI-SEMITISM.

I THINK THAT IN THE FUTURE, HISTORIANS ARE GOING TO CALL OUR MOMENT IN TIME THE HIGH TIDE OF AMERICAN ANTI-SEMITISM.

>> YAIR, SAME QUESTION TO YOU.

WHAT IS YOUR REACTION TO WHAT SEEMS TO BE COMING MORE AND MORE NORMALIZED IN TERMS OF PEOPLE FEELING, AGAIN, QUITE OPEN TO TALK ABOUT SOMETHING THAT NOT THAT LONG AGO WAS CONSIDERED INCREDIBLY TABOO?

>> SO I DO THINK THAT WE'VE SEEN AN INCREASE IN THE VOICING OF THESE SORTS OF SENTIMENTS IN THE PUBLIC SQUARE RECENTLY, BUT I ALSO WANTED TO DISTINGUISH THAT FROM THE NOTION THAT THIS STUFF IS NEW OR THAT IT'S DRAMATICALLY INCREASED FROM BEFORE.

IT'S OFTEN THE CASE THAT WHAT HAPPENS IS A CELEBRITY OR A POLITICIAN GIVES VOICE TO CERTAIN SENTIMENTS THAT WERE ALREADY OUT THERE IN SOCIETY, AND THAT CAUSES PEOPLE TO NOTICE AND OFTEN TO BE UPSET ABOUT IT.

SO THAT COULD BE, YOU KNOW, KANYE WEST.

IT CAN BE KYRIE.

IT CAN BE DONALD TRUMP, RIGHT?

WE'VE SEEN THIS AGAIN AND AGAIN.

BUT WHEN DONALD TRUMP, FOR EXAMPLE, SAYS SOMETHING THAT EVOKES AMERICA'S LESSER, YOU KNOW, ANGELS, IT'S NOT NEW.

IT'S NOT THAT HE INVENTED IT.

IT'S THAT HE IS REFLECTING IT.

HE IS VOICING IT.

AND WHEN YOU SEE THINGS, THE SORTS OF THINGS THAT KANYE HAS BEEN SAYING, HE IS NOT INVENTING THESE THINGS EITHER.

HE IS READING THEM ON THE INTERNET.

HE IS HEARING THEM FROM OTHER PEOPLE.

HE IS BEING DOTED INTO THEM SOMETIMES BY OTHER PEOPLE.

AN I THINK IT'S IMPORTANT TO RECOGNIZE THAT WE MAY BE NOTICING SOMETHING RIGHT NOW.

I THINK THIS IS TRUE WITH RACISM, ANTI-SEMITISM, VERY OFTEN WE NOTICE THEM WHEN THERE IS A PARTICULAR INCIDENT.

IT CATCHES OUR ATTENTION.

BUT THEY'RE THRUMMING BENEATH SOCIETY FOR QUITE SOME TIME BEFORE IT GETS TO THAT POINT.

>> OF COURSE.

NOW ERIC, I WANT TO BRING YOU IN AND ASK, BECAUSE AS I WAS GOING THROUGH THE INTRO, IT SHOULD NOT BE MISSED THAT OF THE THREE PROMINENT FIGURES THAT I MENTIONED, THE THREE CELEBRITIES, ALL THREE ARE BLACK MEN.

WHY IS IT THAT THERE SEEMS TO BE AT LEAST PERHAPS TO THE CASUAL VIEWER THIS EITHER INCREASE OR COMFORTABLE VOICING SOME OF THESE ANTI-SEMITIC OR PERHAPS GIVING PLATFORMS TO ANTI-SEMITIC TROPES WITHIN A COMMUNITY THAT HAD LONG BEEN SO CLOSELY TIED TO THE JEWISH COMMUNITY IN AMERICA?

>> ABSOLUTELY.

LOOK, WE FIRST HAVE TO UNDERSTAND THAT ANTI-SEMITISM IS ON THE RISE IN THE UNITED STATES.

THE ANTI-DEFAMATION LEAGUE HAS DOCUMENTED THAT ANTI-SEMITISM, OR AT LEAST THE REPORTS OF ANTI-SEMITISM ARE AT AN ALL-TIME HIGH IN THIS PERIOD.

ALONG WITH THAT WE HAVE WATCHED POLITICIANS TAP IN TO ANTI-SEMITISM IN ORDER TO FUEL POLITICAL CAMPAIGNS.

WE HAVE WATCHED A WHITE NATIONALIST MOVEMENT THAT HAS ENGAGED IN ACTS OF TERROR IN THIS COUNTRY WITH MASS SHOOTINGS IN BUFFALO, EL PASO, PITTSBURGH, UTILIZE THE IDEOLOGY OF ANTI-SEMITISM TO JUSTIFY THAT POLITICAL VIOLENCE.

IT IS NOT SURPRISING, THEN, THAT ANTI-SEMITISM IS ALSO MAINSTREAMING WITHIN AMERICAN CULTURE.

CAREER BUILDER JUST PUT OUT A NEW REPORT BASED OFF OF A POLL THAT THEY CONDUCTED THAT FOUND THAT 17% OF HIRING MANAGERS ARE REPORTING THAT THEIR SUPERVISORS HAVE REQUESTED THAT THEY NOT HIRE JEWS FOR EMPLOYMENT.

THE END OF THE DAY, WE HAVE TO UNDERSTAND THAT HATE GROUPS AREN'T BRINGING ANTI-SEMITISM INTO OUR COMMUNITY AND INTO OUR SOCIETY.

THEY ARE TAPPING INTO IT AND SO INCREASINGLY IS THE AMERICAN PUBLIC.

WHY ARE WE SEEING IT RIGHT NOW IN THE AFRICAN AMERICAN COMMUNITY?

WE HAVE TO UNDERSTAND THE CONSTRUCTION OF ANTI-SEMITISM.

IT WAS CREATED IN PART TO BE A BUFFER BETWEEN THE HAVES AND THE HAVE NOTES IN A SOCIETY, TO MISDIRECT RESPONSIBILITY BY SCAPEGOATING A SMALL MINORITY COMMUNITY WHICH ARE KNOWN AS JEWS.

IT TAPS INTO THE IDEA THAT JEWS ARE SOMEHOW AN OTHER RACE.

THIS IS NOT A FORM OF RELIGIOUS BIGOTRY.

IT'S A FORM OF RACIALIZED BIGOTRY.

WE SHOULD UNDERSTAND ANTI-SEMITISM IS A FORM OF BIGOTRY.

AND BECAUSE THE WAY IT'S CONSTRUCTED, IT'S MOST LIKELY TO APPEAR IN MARGINALIZED COMMUNITIES.

THERE IS A DANGER HERE.

AND THE DANGER IS THIS.

BECAUSE OF ANTI-BLACK RACISM, THE ONLY PATH LEFT FOR SUCCESS FOR MANY AFRICAN AMERICANS HAS BEEN IN CULTURE, IN SPORTS AND THE ARTS.

THAT MEANS THERE ARE BLACK VOICES WHO HAVE ACCESS TO A LARGE SEGMENT OF THE AMERICAN COMMUNITY.

AND WITHIN THAT, WE HAVE INDIVIDUALS WHO ARE NOW PROMOTING ANTI-SEMITISM.

WE SHOULD BE SURE TO NOTE THAT THEIR AUDIENCE IS NOT JUST AFRICAN AMERICANS.

THEIR AUDIENCE IS WHITE AMERICANS.

AND IN MANY OF THESE CASES, WHILE THESE ARTISTS ARE PROMULGATING ANTI-SEMITISM, THEY ARE TAPPING INTO LARGELY PLATFORMS ON TELEVISION, RADIO, PODCASTS AND SOCIAL MEDIA THAT ARE CONTROLLED BY NONJEWS WHO ARE WHITE.

THIS IS NOT JUST A PROBLEM OF ARTISTS.

THIS IS A PROBLEM OF SOCIETY THAT HAS BECOME TOLERANT OF ANTI-SEMITISM.

>> PAMELA, I WANT TO GO BACK TO YOU BECAUSE I THOUGHT IT WAS INTERESTING YOU WERE SAYING THE PERIOD BETWEEN THE TWO WORLD WARS, IF YOU WILL.

AND IS THERE ANY SORT OF SIMILARITY OR SOMETHING THAT WE CAN UNDERSTAND FROM THAT PERIOD NOT JUST IN TERMS OF THE ANTI-SEMITISM THAT WAS HAPPENING WHICH IS VERY IMPORTANT, BUT OTHER EXTENUATING FACTORS.

THE ECONOMY, THE REST OF AMERICA'S RACE RELATIONS, ET CETERA.

IS THERE ANYTHING WE CAN DRAW ON FROM THAT PERIOD TO CONSIDER WHERE WE ARE NOW AND THE PATH WE DON'T WANT TO TAKE?

>> I THINK THERE IS A LOT THAT WE CAN DRAW ON THAT DRAW PARALLELS BETWEEN THE 1920s AND THE 1930s.

NOT ONLY IN THE UNITED STATES, BUT ALSO AROUND THE WORLD.

AND WHAT WE'RE SEEING TODAY.

SO THE FIRST THING THAT I WOULD SAY IS THE PREVALENCE OF CONSPIRACY THEORIES.

WE HAVE IN EUROPE, IN GERMANY, WE HAVE A CONSPIRACY THEORY THAT ARGUES THAT GERMANY DID NOT LOSE THE WAR, THAT IT WAS STABBED IN THE BACK BY THE JEWS.

AND WHAT HAPPENS IS THAT LEADS IN GERMANY IN 1923 TO AN ATTEMPT BY ADOLF HITLER TO OVERTHROW THE WEIMAR REPUBLIC.

AND HE IS NOT SUCCESSFUL IN 1923, BUT ESSENTIALLY, HE COMES TO POWER JUST A DECADE LATER.

AND HE DOES IT LEGALLY A DECADE LATER.

HE FORMS A COALITION GOVERNMENT, A MAJORITY GOVERNMENT IN THE WEIMAR REPUBLIC, AND THEN USES THE LAWS OF THE WEIMAR REPUBLIC TO SHUT DOWN THE REPUBLIC.

AND WE HAVE A PARALLEL IN THE UNITED STATES.

WE HAVE CONSPIRACY THEORIES THAT ARGUE THAT THE ELECTION WAS STOLEN AND WE SAW JANUARY 26, 2021, WE SAW AN ATTEMPT TO TAKE OVER THE CAPITOL OF THE UNITED STATES.

AND SO IT'S A VERY FRIGHTENING PARALLEL.

AND THERE ARE MANY OTHER FACTORS AS WELL.

BUT THAT'S JUST ONE OF THEM.

>> YAIR, I'M WONDERING, FIRST OF ALL, DO YOU SEE NOT ONLY A PARALLEL, BUT I GUESS WHEN PEOPLE SAY THAT HISTORY DOESN'T NECESSARILY REPEAT ITSELF, BUT IT RHYMES, WHAT IS IT THAT YOU SEE AS BEING LAYING THE GROUNDWORK FOR THIS THING THAT'S ALWAYS BEEN THERE, BUT TO BE SO PROMINENTLY PLATFORMED IN THE WAY THAT IT HAS BEEN?

>> WELL, I DO THINK THAT ONE NEW FACTOR THAT WE HAVE THAT THEY DIDN'T IS WE HAVE SOCIAL MEDIA.

THEY HAD TALK RADIO AND PEOPLE LIKE FATHER COUGHLIN.

THEY HAD HATE PREACHERS BACK THEN, BUT IT WASN'T THE SAME AS MASS MARKET SOCIAL MEDIA THAT REACHES MILLIONS UPON MILLIONS OF PEOPLE INSTANTANEOUSLY.

ESPECIALLY BECAUSE A LOT OF TIMES PEOPLE START FOLLOWING CELEBRITIES OR ARTISTS BECAUSE THEY'RE FOLLOWING THEIR ART OR THEIR CULTURE WORK.

THEY WEREN'T FOLLOWING IT FOR THEIR POLITICAL THEMES.

BUT INVARIABLY, YOU START HEARING ABOUT THOSE THINGS FROM THEM.

AND SOMETIMES THOSE PEOPLE HAVE BLIND SPOTS, RIGHT.

SOMETIMES THEY'RE MALICIOUS, BUT VERY OFTEN THEY'RE JUST IGNORANT, BECAUSE WE ALL ARE IN DIFFERENT WAYS ABOUT OTHER COMMUNITIES.

IN THE PAST THOSE PEOPLE DIDN'T HAVE A WAY OF BROADCASTING THEIR VIEWS, AND PEOPLE JUST ENJOYED THEM FOR THEIR ART OR ATHLETES OR WHATEVER IT IS.

BUT NOW WE SEE EVERYTHING FROM ALL PEOPLE ON THESE MASS MARKET PLATFORMS.

AND THAT CAN LEAD TO SOME REALLY UNFORTUNATE IDEAS, MISCONCEPTIONS AND STEREOTYPES SPREADING MORE EASILY IN A WAY I THINK THEY COULDN'T BEFORE.

>> WITH THAT THEN, CAN YOU EXPAND A LITTLE BIT FOR THE ARTICLE YOU WROTE FOR THE "ATLANTIC"?

THERE WERE SEVERAL PEOPLE WHO PERHAPS NOT BEING AS SENSITIVE WHAT SOME OF THE TROPES WERE, WHY DAVE CHAPPELLE'S MONOLOGUE WAS SEEN AS PROBLEMATIC FOR A LOT OF PEOPLE.

>> SO I THINK THE FIRST THING TECHNOLOGY IS AN IDEA.

CHAPPELLE IS A VERY, VERY TALENTED COMEDIAN.

AND HIS MONOLOGUE WAS VERY FUNNY.

I THINK PEOPLE LISTENED TO IT.

HE STEPS ON BOTH SIDES OF THE LINE AND HE MOCKS EVERYONE INVOLVED.

HE SORT OF LET THE CHIPS FALL WHERE THEY DO.

AND HE WOULD PROBABLY TURN TO US AND SAY THAT'S JUST WHAT I'VE ALWAYS DONE.

WHY IT IS WRONG TO MAKE THESE SORTS OF JOKES?

AND I'M NOT HERE TO POLICE COMEDY, BUT I CAN EXPLAIN THE DISCOMFORT PEOPLE FELT.

AND I THINK IT HAD A LOT TO DO WITH THE FACT THAT DAVE CHAPPELLE WAS MAKING JOKES ABOUT ANTI-SEMITISM.

THESE ARE JOKES.

ARE PEOPLE LAUGHING BECAUSE THEY'RE IN ON THE JOKE OR ARE THEY LAUGHING BECAUSE THEY JUST BELIEVE THE CONSPIRACY?

AND AS SOCIETY SORT OF SPLINTERS AND HAS MORE CONSPIRACY THEORIES MOVE INTO THE MAINSTREAM, AND THAT'S NOT JUST ABOUT JEWS, RIGHT?

THE THEORY ABOUT WHO WON THE 2020 ELECTION.

THE MORE CONSPIRACIES YOU HAVE IN A SOCIETY, THE HARDER IT IS TO JOKE ABOUT THEM BECAUSE YOU DON'T KNOW WHY PEOPLE ARE LAUGHING.

DAVE CHAPPELLE PULLED OUT OF HIS OWN SKETCH SHOW BECAUSE HE WAS DOING A SKETCH IN WHICH THEY WERE PERFORMING A CARICATURE OF A BLACK MAN.

AND HE SAW A MEMBER OF THE AUDIENCE WHO IS WHITE AND HE THOUGHT THE GUY IS NOT LAUGHING WITH ME.

HE IS LAUGHING AT ME, BUT LAUGHING FOR THE WRONG REASONS.

THAT MADE HIM UNCOMFORTABLE AND HE THOUGHT I CAN'T DO THIS.

JEWS WERE HOPING THAT HE DIDN'T NECESSARILY FEEL THAT SENSITIVITY TOWARDS THEM AND REALIZE THAT THEY WOULD FEEL THE SAME WAY IN SEEING THIS SORT OF COMEDY.

BUT IT'S A REALLY DIFFICULT THING.

THE REASON WHY HIS JOKE DIDN'T GO SO WELL WITH PEOPLE IS BECAUSE THE CULTURE AROUND THE JOKE.

YOU CHANGE THE CULTURE AND THE JOKE BECOMES EASIER TO MAKE AND EASIER TO RECEIVE.

SOMETIMES WE CAN GET A LITTLE DISTRACTED BY A COMEDY ROUTINE WHEN WE SHOULD PROBABLY BE FOCUSING ON THE BIGGER PICTURE ISSUES THAT MADE THAT LAND IN THE WAY IT DID.

>> ERIC, YOU KNOW, ONE OF THE THINGS THAT WE'VE HEARD THAT HAVE COME UP IS THIS NOTION OF CONTROLLING, CONTROLLING THIS INDUSTRY, CONTROLLING THAT INDUSTRY, ET CETERA, WHEN AT LEAST AMERICAN ARE A SMALL PORTION OF THE POPULATION.

WHY FOR SUCH A SMALL GROUP OF PEOPLE DO THESE KIND OF TROPES PERSIST?

IS IT BECAUSE PERHAPS THERE IS SOMETHING THERE, AS SOME PEOPLE FEEL, OR IS IT BECAUSE PEOPLE MIGHT BE MORE SENSITIVE TO NOTICE MEMBERS OF A SMALL GROUP, WITHIN AN INSTITUTION, ET CETERA.

>> ABSOLUTELY.

WE SHOULD UNDERSTAND, RIGHT, THAT WHEN WE TALK ABOUT CRIME IN THE UNITED STATES THAT WHAT COMES TO MIND FOR MOST AMERICANS ARE AFRICAN AMERICAN COMMUNITIES.

THAT IS BECAUSE OF THINGS LIKE TV SHOWS LIKE COPS, RIGHT, AND DECADES AND DECADES OF RACISM THAT HAS CREATED AN UNCONSCIOUS BIAS.

WE KNOW THAT UNCONSCIOUS BIAS HAPPENS EACH AND EVERY DAY WHETHER WE'RE TALKING ABOUT RACIAL PROFILING, ABOUT LAW ENFORCEMENT, OR IN A DEPARTMENT STORE.

IN THE SAME WAY WE ALSO UNDERSTOOD THAT THERE ARE BLACK CARICATURES THAT ARE ALSO RACIST.

THE IDEA SOMEHOW THAT BLACK PEOPLE ARE DOMINAING ATHLETICS, RIGHT, AND SPORTS BECAUSE OF A RACIST CARICATURE RATHER THAN THE UNDERSTANDING THAT SYSTEMIC RACISM IN THE UNITED STATES HISTORICALLY LEFT VERY FEW PATHWAYS FOR THE BLACK COMMUNITIES TO OBTAIN SUCCESS.

AND SPORTS WAS ONE OF THEM.

AND THAT IS WHY THERE IS A NUMBER OF AFRICAN AMERICANS WHO ARE INVOLVED IN THE SPORTS INDUSTRY.

NOW, LOOK, THE SAME FORM OF RACISM CALLED ANTI-SEMITISM CREATED LIMITED PATHS FOR THE JEWISH COMMUNITY AS WELL.

AND ONE OF THOSE WAS WITHIN ARTS AND CULTURE.

BUT WE HAVE TO UNDERSTAND JEWS DO NOT CONTROL THE MEDIA IN THE UNITED STATES.

THAT IS CONTROLLED BY WHITE FOLKS PRIMARILY IN THE UNITED STATES.

BUT JEWS ARE FOCUSED ON THE SAME WAY THE SAME WAY THAT BLACK FOLKS ARE FOCUSED ON WHEN IT COMES TO ISSUE OF CRIME.

THAT'S WHAT MAKES IT SO DANGEROUS.

IT'S THAT UNCONSCIOUS ASSUMPTION, RIGHT, OF THESE TROPES AND STEREOTYPES OF JEWS CONTROLLING THE WORLD, CONTROLLING POLITICS, CONTROLLING ECONOMICS THAT HAVE REAL IMPACT.

WE THINK IT'S JUST THE JEWISH COMMUNITY THAT'S IMPACTED, BUT LET'S REMEMBER THE VICTIMS OF ANTI-SEMITISM IN BUFFALO WERE AFRICAN AMERICAN.

AND SO WERE THEY IN CHARLESTON, SOUTH CAROLINA.

DAVID CHAPPELLE IS A COMEDIAN, AND HE DOES WHAT COMEDIANS DO.

WE UNDERSTAND THAT.

BUT NBC HAS MORE RESPONSIBILITY TO OUR COMMUNITIES.

IT SHOULD UNDERSTAND THAT WE ARE FUNCTIONING IN A TIME WHERE HATE CRIMES ARE AT AN ALL-TIME HIGH, AND MANY OF THOSE HATE CRIMES, PARTICULARLY MISSION DIRECTED HATE CRIMES ARE FUELED BY ANTI-SEMITISM.

AND WE SIMPLY HAVE TO BE MORE RESPONSIBLE.

AND THAT'S WHAT WE'RE NOT SEEING.

DAVID CHAPPELLE DOES WHAT DAVID CHAPPELLE DOES.

BUT THE REST OF US NEED TO BE RESPONSIBLE MEMBERS TO OUR COMMUNITY.

AND UNTIL WE STEP UP IN THAT WAY, ANTI-SEMITISM WILL CONTINUE TO IMPACT THE JEWISH COMMUNITY, BUT IT WILL CONTINUE TO IMPACT ALL OF US.

AND IT WILL RIP OUR COMMUNITIES APART.

WHILE WE'RE FOCUSED ON ANTI-SEMITISM, WE SHOULD STILL REMEMBER THAT IT'S DISTRACTING US FROM REAL ISSUES.

WHILE WE HAVE TO FIGHT ANTI-SEMITISM, WE'RE IGNORING THE ISSUES OF EMPLOYMENT, HOUSING, HEALTH ACCESS.

WE'RE BEING DISTRACTED FROM REAL INEQUALITY.

SO WE TAKE ON ANTI-SEMITISM SO WE CAN GET BACK TO THE WORK OF BUILDING A FAIR AND JUST AMERICA.

>> PAMELA, SOME OF THE THINGS THAT ERIC SAID, I FOUND IT REALLY INTERESTING AND KIND OF FIT IN WITH SOME OF YOUR OWN WORK.

BECAUSE AT ONE POINT, YOU WROTE THAT WHENEVER JEWS ENTER INTO ANY KIND OF POSITION WHERE THEY MIGHT HAVE INFLUENCE OVER PEOPLE WHO ARE NOT JEWISH, THEN ALL OF THE SUDDEN IT'S SEEN AS SOME SORT OF CONSPIRACY.

AND IT SEEMS AS IF AMERICA HAS A SIMILAR REACTION TO OTHER MINORITY GROUPS.

IF IT'S AN AFRICAN AMERICAN IN A POSITION OF POWER OR A LATINO PERSON WHO IS IN A POSITION OF POWER, THAT PARTS OF AMERICA CAN REACT VISCERALLY AGAINST YOU'RE NOT SUPPOSED TO BE IN CHARGE.

SO I'M WONDERING FROM YOUR HISTORICAL PERSPECTIVE, IS THERE A CONNECTION BETWEEN ANTI-SEMITISM AND RACISM, PARTICULARLY IF THIS COUNTRY?

>> THERE IS A VERY POWERFUL CONNECTION BETWEEN THE TWO.

FIRST OF ALL, THE WORD "RACISM" CAME INTO USE IN POPULAR CULTURE IN THE 1930s.

AND IT WAS USED ACTUALLY TO DESCRIBE THE PERSECUTION OF THE JEWS IN GERMANY BECAUSE THEY DIDN'T HAVE ANOTHER TERM FOR WHAT WAS GOING ON.

AS ERIC TALKED ABOUT, THE JEWS WERE RACIALLY TYPED, THAT IDEA ABOUT RACIALLY TYPING THE JEWS GUESS BACK TO THE 19th CENTURY TO THE INVENTION OF THE CONCEPT OF ANTI-SEMITISM, WHICH DOESN'T -- ISN'T BASED ON ANYTHING THAT'S REAL BECAUSE THE IDEA BEHIND IT IS THAT THE JEWS WERE SEMITES, THAT THEY WERE PART OF THE PEOPLES WHO CAME OUT OF THE MIDDLE EAST, AND IT COMES OUT OF THIS NOTION THAT THERE ARE THESE LANGUAGES THAT ARE CALLED SEMITIC LANGUAGES IN HEBREW AND ARABIC ARE TWO SEMITIC LANGUAGES.

IN 1879 WHEN THEY CREATE A LEAGUE FOR ANTI-SEMITES BECAUSE THEY WANT TO EXPLAIN SOMETHING NEW IN TERMS OF JEW HATRED.

HOW DO YOU EXPLAIN SOMETHING NEW IN TERMS OF JEW HATRED?

IT'S NOT CHRISTIAN-BASED ANY LONGER.

IT'S BASED ON THE FACT THAT JEWS ARE RACIALLY DIFFERENT.

WHAT WE'RE SEEING IN THE UNITED STATES TODAY, AND I THINK THIS IS COMING FROM THE AFRICAN AMERICANS THAT THE JEWS ARE BEING CASTIGATED FOR BEING SORT OF THE ULTIMATE WHITES, THE ONES WHO ARE IN POWER, THE ONES WHO HAVE CONTROL.

AND MEANWHILE FROM THE WHITE NATIONALISTS, WHAT WE'RE SEEING IS THAT THE JEWS CANNOT REPLACE THEM.

THEY'RE PASSING AS WHITE.

AND OF COURSE THEY ARE THE REAL WHITES.

>> AND THAT LEADS QUITE PERFECTLY INTO WHAT WAS GOING TO BE MY FOLLOW-UP QUESTION.

IS WHEN YOU TALK ABOUT HOW THE JEWS WERE SET ASIDE AS A DIFFERENT RACE ALMOST, THAT FOR A LOT OF AFRICAN AMERICANS, THERE'S JUST THE VISION THAT JEWISH PEOPLE ARE JUST A DIFFERENT KIND OF WHITE PEOPLE.

SO, AGAIN, I ASK, WHERE IS -- WHO DOES THAT KIND OF DIVISION BENEFIT?

YAIR, I'LL GO TO YOU.

>> SO THERE'S I THINK A BROADER MISCONCEPTION.

IT'S NOT JUST HELD WITHIN THE BLACK COMMUNITY.

IT'S HELD AMONG MANY COMMUNITIES THAT JEWISH PEOPLE ARE A WHITE PEOPLE THAT HAS TO BO DOH WITH JEWS THEY SAW ON TV.

THEY SAW JERRY SEINFELD AND PARTICULAR PEOPLE WHO LOOK WHITE AND THAT MUST BE THE ENTIRETY OF THE ENTIRE JEWISH COMMUNITY.

IT ERASES ENTIRE SWATHS OF JEWS, OF MIDDLE EASTERN AND AFRICAN HERITAGE.

THERE ARE MANY, MANY JEWS OF ALL DIFFERENT HUES, AND THEY HAVE THEIR IMPORTANT STORIES AND TRADITIONS.

WHEN PEOPLE MAKE THIS SORT OF CLAIM, THEY ERASE REALLY IMPORTANT PEOPLE FROM THE JEWISH STORY.

BUT ALSO, OF COURSE, IF YOU LIKE TURN INTERSECTIONAL LENS ON JEWISH IDENTITY, YOU WOULD LOOK AT SOMEONE LIKE ME, AN ASHKENAZI YES, I GET TREATED LIKE A WHITE PERSON AND GET BENEFITS THAT SOMEBODY WITH DARKER SKIN WOULD NOT.

BUT THE FACT THAT I'M JEWISH MAKES ME ONE OF THE ONLY WHITE PEOPLE THAT I HAVE TO WORRY SOMEONE IS GOING TO SHOOT UP MY SYNAGOGUE.

A WHITE NATIONALIST WILL SHOOT UP MY SYNAGOGUE.

AT THE INTERSECTION OF BEING A ASHKENAZI JEW AND BEING A JEWISH PERSON IN AMERICA, UNIQUE THINGS HAPPEN.

IT'S NOT ONE OR THE OTHER, IT'S BOTH.

IT'S SOMETIMES VERY HARD FOR PEOPLE TO RECOGNIZE THAT BOTH OF THOSE THINGS ARE GOING ON AT ONCE.

A COMMUNITY CAN BE BOTH EMPOWERED AND EMBATTLED.

THIS IS VERY HARD FOR PEOPLE TO GRASP AND HOLD IN LINE AT THE SAME TIME.

I THINK IF WE CAN INTRODUCE A LITTLE COMPLEXITY INTO OUR THINKING, NOT ONLY WILL WE BE BETTER OFF IN THE CONVERSATIONS WE HAVE, I THINK PEOPLE WILL BE A LOT LESS CONFUSED.

I THINK A LOT OF THIS CONVERSATION STEMS FROM CONFUSION BECAUSE PEOPLE DON'T KNOW ENOUGH ABOUT JEWS OR JEWISH HISTORY TO UNDERSTAND.

THEY'RE SAYING JEWS ARE A BUNCH OF UNDIFFERENTIATED WHITES.

THAT DOESN'T DESCRIBE THE COMMUNITY OR THEIR EXPERIENCE.

ONCE WE MOVE PAST THOSE STEREOTYPES, AS WITH ANY OTHER COMMUNITY, YOU CAN HAVE MUCH MORE INTERESTING, HEALTHY AND VALUABLE CONVERSATIONS.

>> WELL, WE'VE GOT ABOUT TWO MINUTES LEFT, BUT WHEN IT COMES TO ADDRESSING THIS, COMBATTING IT, WHAT ARE THE THINGS?

AND I'LL GO THROUGH EACH GUEST HERE.

BUT WHAT IS SOMETHING YOU CAN RECOMMEND THAT EVERYDAY PEOPLE DO TO STEP IN TO WHAT CAN OFTEN FEEL LIKE AN INCREDIBLY UNCOMFORTABLE SPACE, ESPECIALLY PERHAPS WITH SOMEONE YOU MIGHT HAVE A CLOSE OR INTIMATE RELATIONSHIP WITH?

AND ERIC, I'LL START WITH YOU.

>> YES.

REALLY QUICKLY, WHAT I WOULD JUST SAY IS WE SHOULD UNDERSTAND, RIGHT, THAT THIS ANTI-SEMITISM LEFT UNCHECKED, RIGHT, WILL RIP APART A BLACK AND JEWISH COALITION BUILDING IN THIS COUNTRY.

IT WILL CREATE THE CONDITIONS THAT MAKE IT HARDER TO ACHIEVE THE THINGS WE WANT IN SOCIETY -- FAIRNESS AND EQUITY AND OPPORTUNITY.

WHAT CAN WE DO?

I THINK WE CAN DO TWO THINGS.

WE CAN CONDEMN ANTI-SEMITISM.

BECAUSE IT IS A FORM OF RACISM.

AND WE SHOULD CONDEMN ALL FORMS OF RACISM.

THE SECOND IS TO LEARN MORE ABOUT ANTI-SEMITISM.

WE HAVE TO LEARN MORE THAN JUST ABOUT THE HOLOCAUST.

IMAGINE IF THE TOTALITY OF ALL WE UNDERSTOOD ABOUT ANTI-BLACK RACISM, RIGHT, IN THIS COUNTRY WAS THROUGH THE LENS OF LYNCHINGS.

WE'RE MISSING HUGE SEGMENTS.

AND THE RESPONSIBILITY IS ON NON-JEWS, PARTICULARLY THE BLACK COMMUNITY TO GET BETTER ON THIS ISSUE.

SO WE'RE NOT BEING WEDGED AGAINST ONE ANOTHER.

THE REAL FOCUS IS THE FIGHT FOR EQUALITY.

AND WE DO NOT GET THERE BY DENIGRATING OTHER COMMUNITIES THROUGH OTHER FORMS OF STEREOTYPES AND BIGOTRY.

>> VERY QUICKLY, I AGREE BOTH YAIR AND ERIC TALKED ABOUT THE IMPORTANCE OF EDUCATION.

ONE OF MY STUDENTS TOLD ME THAT BEFORE HE STUDIED ANTI-SEMITISM AT THE UNIVERSITY, HE WOULD HAVE LAUGHED AT DAVE CHAPPELLE.

AFTER STUDYING A COURSE ON ANTI-SEMITISM, HE DIDN'T FIND IT FUNNY AT ALL.

>> AND I THINK THAT'S AN IMPORTANT NOTE TO LEAVE IT ON.

I'D LIKE TO THANK ALL THREE OF MY GUESTS, PAMELA NADELL, ERIC WARD, AND OF COURSE YAIR ROSENBERG.

THANK YOU ALL SO MUCH FOR JOINING ME AND HAVING THIS INCREDIBLY IMPORTANT AND TIMELY CONVERSATION HERE ON "METROFOCUS."

>>"METROFOCUS" IS MADE POSSIBLE BY -- SUE AND EDGAR WACHENHEIM III, SYLVIA A.

AND SIMON B. POYTA PROGRAMING ENDOWMENT TO FIGHT ANTI-SEMITISM.

THE PETER G. PETERSON AND JOAN GANZ COONEY FUND.

BERNARD AND DENISE SCHWARTZ, BARBARA HOPE ZUCKERBERG, THE AMBROSE MONELL FOUNDATION, AND BY --