♪ >>> THIS IS "METROFOCUS," WITH RAFAEL PI ROMAN, JACK FORD AND JENNA FLANAGAN.

>>> "METROFOCUS" IS MADE POSSIBLE BY -- SUE AND EDGAR WACHENHEIM III, THE PETER G. PETERSON AND JOAN GANZ COONEY FUND, BERNARD AND DENISE SCHWARTZ, BARBARA HOPE ZUCKERBERG, THE AMBROSE MONELL FOUNDATION.

AND BY -- >>> IT ALL CAME AT ABOUT TO MINUTES BEFORE 10:00 THIS MORNING OF A SHOOTING, IT'S BELIEVED THERE WAS ONE SHOOTER, A MALE, WHO IS NOW DEAD AND THE REPORTS WE'RE GETTING FROM LAW ENFORCEMENT IS THAT OF THE 26 DEAD, MOST ARE CHILDREN.

>> THAT WAS FIVE YEARS AGO.

GOOD EVENING AND WELCOME TO "METROFOCUS,""," I'M JACK FORD.

IT HAS BEEN FIVE YEARS SINCE THE MASS SHOOTING AT SANDY HOOK ELEMENTARY SCHOOL ROCKED THAT SMALL COMMUNITY AND THE NATION.

THE CARNAGE WAS HORRIFIC.

20 FIRST GRADERS AND SIX SCHOOL WORKERS ALL CAUGHT OFFGUARD AND ACTUALLY MASSACRED IN A TOWN WHERE CRIME MOST CERTAINLY NOT THE NORM.

IN THE FIVE YEARS SINCE WE HAVE SEEN OTHER MASSACRES, THE PULSE NIGHTCLUB IN ORLANDO, MOST RECENTLY IN LAS VEGAS, YET THE EVENT AT SANDY HOOK ELEMENTARY REMAINS A BENCHMARK.

A CHILLING STORY OF THE AFTERMATH OF THE MURDERS THERE AS SEEN THROUGH THE EYES OF THE VICTIMS' FAMILIES AND THE COMMUNITY WAS THE SUBJECT OF A 2016 DOCUMENTARY TITLED "NEWTOWN."

THE FILM'S PRODUCER MARIA CUOMO COAL AND KIM SNYDER HAVE BEEN RELENTLESS IN THEIR PURSUIT TO BEGIN A NATIONAL CONVERSATION ON THE I WISH AUTO US SURROUNDING GUN REFORM.

THEY START ADD CAMPAIGN TITLED HASHTAG WE ARE ALL NEWTOWN AND HAVE HOSTED OVER 100 SCREENINGS AND PANEL DISCUSSIONS IN DIVERSE COMMUNITIES ACROSS AMERICA INCLUDING ONE COMMUNITY THAT'S DOING ITS OWN PART TO REMEMBER THE VICTIMS OF THE TRAGEDY, THE CITY OF GRIN NELL, IOWA, HOMETOWN OF GRIN NELL AND NRA PRESIDENT PETE BROWNELL.

LET'S TAKE A LOOK.

>> WE ARE TALKING ABOUT THE UNNECESSARY LOSS OF LIFE.

THAT'S WHAT WE'RE TALKING ABOUT.

>> RIGHT FROM THE START OF OUR CONVERSATION IT WAS CLEAR THAT TO ENGAGE OUR LOCAL CONTEXT ON THE ISSUE OF GUN RIGHTS, GUN SAFETY, HAD TO INCLUDE AN OPEN INVITATION TO MR. PETER BROWNELL, CEO OF BROWNELLS, CURRENT PRESIDENT OF THE NRA AND OUR NEIGHBOR.

OUR GUEST TONIGHT MR. DAVID WHEELER WHO LOST HIS SON BEN AT SANDY HOOK WROTE DIRECTLY TO MR. BROWNELL RECENTLY TO REQUEST A ONE-ON-ONE MEETING DURING HIS VISIT HERE IN GRIN NELL TO SEE IF THERE COULD BE ANY COMMON GROUND REACHED, BUT, AGAIN, HE HAS NOT HEARD BACK.

SO WHAT DO YOU DO WHEN YOUR NEIGHBOR WON'T TALK TO YOU?

>> JOINING ME NOW ARE THE FILM'S PRODUCER AND DIRECTOR MARIA CUOMO COLE AND KIM SNYDER.

NICE TO HAVE YOU HERE WITH US.

THANK YOU.

>> THANK YOU FOR HAVING US.

>> I WANT TO ASK YOU ABOUT THE DOCUMENTARY IN A SECOND BUT WE WERE TALKING A MOMENT AGO ABOUT THE FACT AND ALL THREE OF US LOOKED AND WE SAID FIVE YEARS.

THAT IN MANY WAYS IT WAS DIFFICULT FOR US TO IMAGINE THAT FIVE YEARS HAVE PASSED AND WE TALKED ABOUT -- AND MARIA YOU SAID THIS, IT'S ONE OF THOSE THINGS WHERE YOU ALWAYS WILL REMEMBER WHERE YOU WERE.

IS THAT WHAT YOU'RE FINDING AS YOU'RE TRAVELING AROUND THE COUNTRY, THAT SAME KIND OF REACTION THAT PEOPLE HAVE?

>> YEAH, I THINK THAT -- I THINK THAT'S TRUE.

PEOPLE -- PEOPLE REMEMBER WHERE THEY WERE AND I THINK THAT'S A GOOD THING.

I MEAN, IT'S WHY WE MADE THE FILM.

WE SHOULD REMEMBER.

WE CAN NEVER FORGET BECAUSE, YOU KNOW, WE ARE ALL RESPONSIBLE ULTIMATELY AND WE FELT IT WAS EXTREMELY IMPORTANT TO TELL THE STORY OF WHAT HAPPENS AFTER THE CAMERAS HAVE LEFT TOWN.

>> TELL ME ABOUT THAT BECAUSE I'M SURE PEOPLE WOULD HAVE THOUGHT, OKAY, A DOCUMENTARY ABOUT NEWTOWN, LET'S DO THE WHOLE SHOOTING AND FOLLOW THAT, BUT YOU BOTH DECIDED LET'S DO A DIFFERENT STORY.

LET'S DO A STORY AFTERWARDS, THROUGH THE EYES OF THE VICTIMS' FAMILIES AND THE SURVIVORS.

WHY?

>> WELL, WE BOTH FELT IT WAS THE ONLY STORY THAT WE WERE INTERESTED IN TELLING.

YOU KNOW, THE MOST SENSITIVE KIND OF SUBJECT ONE CAN IMAGINE AND CERTAINLY WE CAN NEVER PUT OURSELVES IN THE SHOES OF THE VICTIMS' FAMILIES, NOR THE COMMUNITY MEMBERS, BUT WE FELT IT WAS EXTREMELY IMPORTANT TO CAPTURE THE STORY OF WHAT REALLY HAPPENS TO A COMMUNITY WHEN THE CAMERAS HAVE LEFT.

YOU KNOW, WE HAVE NATIONALLY WE MOURN THE LOSSES AFTER THESE HORRIFIC TRAGEDIES, BUT WE MOVE ON, WE HAVE TO MOVE ON, BUT THE COMMUNITY IS LEFT, THE FAMILIES OF LOVED ONES LOST AND THE STAKEHOLDERS IN A COMMUNITY, LAW ENFORCEMENT, TEACHERS, THE MEDICAL COMMUNITY.

WHAT HAPPENS?

HOW DO THEY MOVE FORTH?

WE HOPED TO BRING OUR CAMERAS IN IN A WAY THAT THEY COULD TELL THEIR OWN STORY.

>> YOU TALK ABOUT MOVING FORWARD AND LET ME ASK YOU THIS, I MENTIONED THE CAMPAIGN, WE ARE ALL NEWTOWN.

YOU'RE GOING BEYOND BEING FILMMAKERS AND YOU'RE CONTINUING TO CARRY THAT STORY IN THAT FASHION.

WHY DID YOU WANT TO DO THAT AND WHY IN THAT WAY?

>> I THINK AS MARIA SAID WE WERE INTERESTED IN THE BEGINNING IN REALLY TELLING THE STORY OF COLLECTIVE GRIEF MORE THAN ANYTHING ELSE AND I THINK PART OF IT WAS TO BREAK THROUGH THIS INEVITABLE DESENSITIZATION THAT I THINK FIVE YEARS LATER WE KNOW IS EVEN MORE HEIGHTENED.

THERE IS NO WAY WE CAN ENDURE THE NEWS OF HOW MANY, OVER 1,500 MASS SHOOTINGS SINCE FIVE YEARS AGO AND NOT BEGIN TO SHUT DOWN.

I THINK THAT IS SCARY AND I THINK PEOPLE REALIZE THAT.

SO PART OF THE FILM IS TO TAKE THESE 85 MINUTES TO REALLY STAND WITH ONE COMMUNITY THAT REPRESENTS NOT ONLY COMMUNITIES OF MASS SHOOTINGS, BUT THE SHOOTINGS THAT WE KNOW TAKE PLACE EVERY DAY, YOU KNOW, IN HOMICIDES AND SUICIDES THAT ROCK THE COUNTRY.

AND WE REALLY DID IT TO ALSO BE ABLE TO ASK THE QUESTION IS CIVIC DISCOURSE POSSIBLE OVER AN ISSUE THAT'S BECOME SO POLITICALLY POLARIZED AND TO SORT OF BREAK BEYOND THAT -- THAT DIVIDE.

>> LET'S TALK ABOUT WHAT YOU'VE BEEN DOING BECAUSE, AS I MENTIONED, 100 MUCH -- OF THESE GATHERINGS, IT COMES BACK TO CIVIL DISCOURSE.

THIS IS NOT ONE OF THOSE ISSUES THAT LENDS ITSELF TO RIGHT HAND CONVERSATION, TO THE NOTION OF WE CAN AGREE TO DISAGREE, BUT WE CAN BE VERY CIVIL ABOUT THAT.

THERE ARE EMOTIONS WRAPPED AROUND THIS.

SO WHEN YOU FIRST DECIDED TO SAY, OKAY, LET'S DO THIS, LET'S DO SOME SCREENINGS, AND LET'S SURROUND THEM WITH CONVERSATIONS, AND I SHOULD MENTION THESE ARE NOT JUST PEOPLE ALL ON ONE SIDE IN YOUR CONVERSATIONS.

>> RIGHT.

>> WHAT WERE YOU HOPING -- I WILL ASK YOU FIRST, WHAT WERE YOU HOPING TO ACCOMPLISH?

>> AGAIN, TO BRING THE HUMAN STORY TO COMMUNITIES AROUND THE COUNTRY WHERE WE ALL VERY MUCH LOOK THE SAME, WHETHER IT'S NEWTOWN, CONNECTICUT, GRINELL, IOWA, NEW YORK CITY, WE REALLY HAVE THE SAME CONCERNS ABOUT OUR FAMILIES SAFETY, OUR COMMUNITY HEALTH, OUR PUBLIC SAFETY AND, YOU KNOW, RAISING THOSE VOICES ARE VERY IMPORTANT TO CUT THROUGH THE POLITICAL POLARIZATION, AS KIM SAID, AND WHEN WE HEAR ESPECIALLY FROM PARENTS WHO HAVE LOST THEIR KIDS, FROM TEACHERS WHO WERE IN THE CLASSROOM AT NEWTOWN, FROM THE EMERGENCY ROOM DOCTOR WHO, YOU KNOW, DEALT WITH WATCHING HIS -- YOU KNOW, HIS NEIGHBORS' CHILDREN COME INTO HIS EMERGENCY ROOM HELPLESS, YOU KNOW, THIS CUTS THROUGH -- IT CUTS THROUGH EVERYTHING AND GETS TO THE HEART OF THE MATTER, WHICH IS THAT WE ARE ALL RESPONSIBLE, WE NEED TO SPEAK UP AND IT'S NOT AN ISSUE THAT WE CANNOT REMEDY.

IT IS AN ISSUE THAT WE CAN ADDRESS WITH SENSIBLE GUN LAWS.

>> TWO OF YOU DO AN INTERESTING THING AND I WAS STRUCK BY IT BECAUSE IT'S SORT OF WHAT I HAVE BEEN DOING IN MY REPORTING ON THIS OVER THE YEARS AND THAT IS YOU DON'T USE THE TERM "GUN CONTROL" IN YOUR CONVERSATIONS.

WHY NOT?

>> WELL, I -- YOU KNOW, I'M NEWER TO THIS SPACE AS AN ACTIVIST BUT I DO CONSIDER MYSELF THAT NOW FIVE YEARS LATER.

YOU KNOW, I THINK ONE OF THE RARE THINGS ABOUT OUR FILM IS BECAUSE IT WASN'T CONSTRUCTED AS A PIECE OF ADVOCACY, BUT ONE THAT REALLY LOOKED, AS I SAID, AT THIS UNIVERSAL COLLECTIVE GRIEF, WE FOUND THAT WE'VE BEEN ABLE TO REACH GUN OWNERS AND TO SORT OF REACH BEYOND THAT -- THAT CHOIR.

>> BASED IN PART ON HOW YOU TITLE IT, THE CONVERSATION, INSTEAD OF SAYING THIS IS A CONVERSATION ABOUT GUN CONTROL, YOU SAY PREVENTING GUN VIOLENCE?

>> YES, I THINK THE WORDS MATTER.

I THINK YOU DO ALIENATE A LOT OF PEOPLE WITH THE WORD "CONTROL."

I THINK THAT PART OF THE CONVERSATION IS IN BEING ABLE TO, AS DAVID SAID IN A LETTER THAT HE SENT TO MR. BROWNELL, THAT IT'S HARD TO BELIEVE AS FATHERS OR AS NEIGHBORS OR AS MOTHERS THAT THERE ISN'T SOME COMMON GROUND THAT CAN BE REACHED AND THAT'S GOT TO BE A STARTING POINT.

>> WHAT'S ONE OF THE THINGS YOU'RE LOOKING FOR IN THESE CONVERSATIONS, YES?

SOME COMMON GROUND?

>> FINDING COMMONALITY, ABSOLUTELY, AND WE DO.

WHETHER IT'S FLORIDA, TEXAS, SOME OF THE TOUGHEST STATES ON POLITICAL ISSUE, THERE IS STILL A COMMONALITY OF COMPASSION AND CONCERN FOR ONE'S OWN SAFETY AND SECURITY OF THEIR LOVED ONES.

>> AND YOU'RE FINDING THAT FROM PEOPLE WHO WERE AVOWED GUN OWNERS.

>> GUN OWNERS.

>> NRA MEMBERS COMING AND SAYING YOU'RE REACHING PEOPLE LIKE THIS WITH IT.

WE'VE HAD -- RARELY I THINK IN THE -- IT'S BEEN HUNDREDS OF SCREENINGS, WE'VE RARELY HAD I DON'T THINK EVER A SITUATION THAT GOT -- >> I WAS GOING TO ASK YOU THAT.

DID YOU HAVE ANY SORT OF EMOTIONAL EXPLOSIONS IN THESE CONVERSATIONS?

>> THERE'S BEEN DISAGREEMENT AND CONCERNS ABOUT CHALLENGES TO THE SECOND AMENDMENT, BUT THAT IS QUICKLY ABATED IN THE CONVERSATION AND THAT'S REALLY THE POINT.

THAT IT'S NOT AT ALL A CHALLENGE TO ONE'S RIGHTS TO OWN GUNS AND TO, YOU KNOW, USE THEM WITHIN THE LAW, BUT -- BUT ONE CAN'T HELP AS A GUN OWNER, AS AN NRA MEMBER, VERY FEW HAVE REFUTED THE NEED TO BE SAFER, TO CREATE SAFER CONTROLS.

>> LET ME GO BACK TO GRINELL FOR A SECOND, KIM, YOU MENTIONED SOMETHING, LET'S ELABORATE A LITTLE BIT.

WE SAW IN THE INTRODUCTION THAT A LETTER HAD BEEN EXTENDED TO PETE BROWNELL, THE PRESIDENT -- CURRENT PRESIDENT OF THE NRA WHO LIVES AND HAS HIS GUN COMPANY IN THAT TOWN.

WHAT HAPPENED AS A CONSEQUENCE OF THAT LETTER?

>> DAVID HAD -- AS WE SAID -- REACHED OUT WITH THE IDEA THAT THEY ARE TWO FATHERS AND AS I WAS SAYING TO DAVID ACTUALLY THE OTHER DAY, THEY ARE NOT JUST -- NEITHER ONE OF THEM ARE JUST ANY FATHER, THEY'RE BOTH IN VERY DIFFERENT SPECIAL POSITIONS.

DAVID SADLY IN A POSITION HE NEVER WOULD HAVE CHOSEN, BUT TO HAVE THIS PLATFORM OF BEING A FATHER OF LOSS, AND PETE BROWNELL IN THE POSITION OF HAVING ENORMOUS INFLUENCE NOT ONLY OVER NRA MEMBERS BUT OVER LAWMAKERS.

SO IN THAT IT WAS A SIGNIFICANT PLEA, A SIGNIFICANT LETTER.

>> AND HE DID NOT ATTEND, BUT YOU MENTIONED THAT HIS WIFE ACTUALLY DID ATTEND.

>> SHE DID.

THE COMMUNITY, WE GOT WORD AND WE FELT THAT WAS COURAGEOUS OF HER TO COME AND PAY RESPECT TO THE COMMUNITY MEMBERS THAT WE HAD BROUGHT.

THERE WERE SIX OF US WHO TRAVELED TO GRINELL, INCLUDING OUR DOCTOR FRIEND, DR. BAY, AND MARY ANN JACOB WHO IS A SURVIVING TEACHER AND A REPUBLICAN AND, YOU KNOW, IN A HOME GUN OWNER.

SO WE THOUGHT THAT WAS A GOOD STARTING POINT AND SHE -- SHE DID ATTEND NOT ONLY THE SCREENING, BUT THE TOWN HALL.

>> IT WAS A MARVELOUS DOCUMENTARY THAT YOU DID AND I THINK THE FOLLOW-UP WORK YOU'RE DOING, TRYING TO ENCOURAGE THE NOTION OF LET'S HAVE CONVERSATIONS, CIVIL CIVIC DISCOURSE, AND LET'S FIND SOME COMMON GROUND, SOMETHING THAT'S SO DESPERATELY NEEDED IN OUR SOCIETY NOW.

IT'S ENCOURAGING TO SEE THE RESPONSE AND THE SUCCESSES THAT YOU HAD.

I WANT TO THANK YOU BOTH.

>> THANK YOU.

>> FOR SPENDING SOME TIME WITH US.

>> THANK YOU.

AND AS WE CAN SAY WE WOULD LOVE PEOPLE TO CHECK OUT WHAT WE'RE DOING AT NEWTOWNFILM.COM.

>> IF YOU'D LIKE TO GET INVOLVED, CHECK OUT WHAT WE ARE THEY'RE DOING AND HOST A SCREENING IN YOUR NEIGHBORHOOD.

GO TO METROFOCUS.ORG FOR MORE INFORMATION.

♪ >>> HI.

I'M JENNA FLANAGAN OF "METROFOCUS."

UNDERSTANDING THE EFFECTS OF THE PANDEMIC BOTH CUMULATIVE AND INDIVIDUAL HAS BEEN DAUNTING TO SAY THE LEAST.

A CONSTANT FLOOD OF NEW INFORMATION IS A LOT FOR THE PUBLIC TO DIGEST.

FOR JOURNALISTS, TELLING THE STORIES OF THE PANDEMIC'S IMPACT IS BOTH AN HONOR AND A PRIVILEGE, BUT CONSTANTLY BEING IMMERSED IN STORIES OF DEVASTATION AND LOSS CAN HAVE A CUMULATIVE EFFECT ON THOSE TASKED WITH COMMUNICATING THAT INFORMATION.

THAT'S WHY ROY SHAPIRO EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR OF THE DARK CENTER FOR JOURNALISM AND TRAUMA AT COLUMBIA UNIVERSITY HAS BEEN STUDYING THE EFFECTS OF REPORTING ON CRISES FOR 20 YEARS AND HE JOINS ME NOW.

BRUCE, WELCOME TO THE PROGRAM.

>> VERY GLAD TO BE HERE.

>> THANK YOU.

SO FIRST I JUST WANT TO START AND SAY THAT JOURNALISTS OF COURSE WE'RE TRAINED TO NOT MAKE OURSELVES THE CENTER OF THE STORY AT ALL, BUT THIS WAS SOMETHING THAT YOU FOUND WAS NOT BEING LOOKED AT AND WAS WORTH STUDYING.

I WAS WONDERING IF YOU COULD EXPLAIN WHY TRAUMA AND JOURNALISM?

>> SURE.

WELL, FIRST OF ALL, A HUGE AMOUNT OF WHAT ACCOUNTS AT NEWS ARE THE MOST DISTRESSING EXPERIENCES IN LIFE, WHETHER IT IS FAMILY VIOLENCE, STREET CRIME, WAR, DISASTER, INTERNATIONAL HUMAN RIGHTS.

THESE ARE BIG DISRUPTIONS IN THE SOCIAL FABRIC AND NATURALLY DO COUNT AS NEWS.

PEOPLE NEED TO KNOW ABOUT THEM.

AND THE JOB OF JOURNALISTS IS TO GO TOWARD EVENTS THAT OTHER PEOPLE WOULD RUN AWAY FROM, OR TO LOOK FORWARD EVENTS THAT OTHER PEOPLE MIGHT LOOK AWAY FROM, AND THAT'S THE JOB.

BUT WE'RE HUMAN BEINGS AND WHILE WE WERE ASKING AND A LOT OF PEOPLE HAVE ASKED OVER TIME, WELL, WHAT -- HOW CAN JOURNALISTS REPORT SENSE TIFL, EFFECTIVELY, ETHICALLY ON SURVIVORS OF VIOLENCE, WE ALSO NEED TO BE ASKING WHAT ABOUT THE IMPACT OF COVERING A STEADY DIET OF DIFFICULT EVENTS?

CAR WRECKS, MURDER TRIALS, ORDINARY DAY TO DAY EVENTS ON NEWS PROFESSIONALS, WHAT ABOUT THE IMPACT OF COVERING OVERWHELMING BIG INTERNATIONAL STORIES, 9/11, WAR ON JOURNALISTS.

WE STARTED ASKING THESE QUESTIONS 20 YEARS AGO BECAUSE IT SEEMED LIKE TWO SIDES OF THE SAME COIN.

WE WANT JOURNALISTS TO BE SENSITIVE TO TRAUMA OUT THERE IN THE WORLD, BUT TO DO THAT JOB WE ALSO NEED TO BE AWARE OF HOW TRAUMA MAY AFFECT US AS NEWS PROFESSIONALS.

>> AND YOU SORT OF GOT INTO IT A LITTLE BIT, BUT WHAT I THOUGHT WAS INTERESTING WAS, AS I WAS LOOKING INTO OR RESEARCH ABOUT THIS SUBJECT OF TRAUMA IN JOURNALISM, SO MUCH OF THE ATTENTION WAS -- AND VERY RIGHTLY SO -- FOCUSED TOWARDS JOURNALISTS WHO COVER WAR ZONES, BUT YOUR RESEARCH HAS FOUND THAT YOU DON'T HAVE TO BE IN A WAR ZONE TO BE AFFECTED BY CONSTANTLY BEING IN CONTACT WITH PEOPLE IN CRISIS.

>> WELL, ABSOLUTELY.

LOCAL JOURNALISTS ARE ACTUALLY EXPOSED AT A VERY HIGH LEVEL TO HUMAN DISTRESS AND SUFFERING AND TRAUMA.

I THINK BACK TO THE VERY BEGINNINGS OF MY OWN CAREER, THE VERY FIRST STORY I COVERED AS A YOUNG REPORTER WAS ABOUT THE DEATH OF A YOUNG WOMAN ABOUT MY OWN AGE IN AN APARTMENT BUILDING IN MY NEIGHBORHOOD.

AT THAT TIME THERE WAS NO ONE AROUND TO SAY, HERE IS HOW YOU TALK TO FAMILY OR NEIGHBORS, HERE IS WHAT YOU MAY EXPERIENCE.

WITHIN A COUPLE OF YEARS BEING A LOCAL REPORTER IN THE 1980s, NOT SOMEONE WHO NATURALLY RAN TOWARD MAYHEM I WILL INTERVIEWED VIETNAM VETERANS AND HOLOCAUST SURVIVORS, HAD REPORTED ON THE IMPACT OF AGENT ORANGE, HAD BEEN AT THE SCENE OF HIGHWAY BRIDGE COLLAPSES.

ALL OF US WHO HAVE BEEN LOCAL REPORTERS ARE EXPOSED TO A LOT OF TOUGH STUFF THAT MAY INVOLVE PEOPLE WHO LOOK LIKE US, WHO LIVE IN THE SAME TOWN OR COMMUNITY WE DO, WHO ARE AT THE SAME POINT IN LIFE OR DEAL WITH THE SAME ISSUES AND THAT -- ALL THE RESEARCH THAT'S BEEN DONE OVER THE LAST 20 YEARS CAN TAKE A TOLL.

JUST AS CONSEQUENTIALLY IN SOME WAYS AS COVERING LARGE-SCALE INTERNATIONAL CRISES.

ONE OF THE BIG CHALLENGES IN TALKING TO JOURNALISTS ABOUT THIS -- THESE ISSUES IS THAT SOMETIMES LOCAL REPORTERS MAY NOT THINK THAT THEIR OWN EXPOSURE TO TRAUMA IS KIND OF WORTHY COMPARED TO INTERNATIONAL WAR CORRESPONDENTS AND THE REALITY IS THAT IT'S JUST AS CONSEQUENTIAL.

YOU KNOW, THERE ARE RATES OF PTSD AND OTHER KINDS OF DISTRESS IN JOURNALISTS THAT ARE COMPARABLE TO FIRST RESPONDERS.

WE ARE A RESILIENT TRIBE, WE AS JOURNALISTS, OUR WORK IS PR PROT PROTECTIVE, OUR MISSION HELPS US DEAL WITH IT, WHAT TO DO IN THE FACE OF DISTRESS KEEPS US RESILIENT, HAVING ETHICS AND HAVING COLLEAGUES PROTECTS US, BUT THERE IS A COST.

JOURNALISTS CAN BE AFFECTED IN PROFOUND WAYS OR EVEN SIDELINED BY PSYCHOLOGICAL TRAUMA, WHETHER THAT IS A MASSIVE SINGLE CRISIS LIKE 9/11 OR THAT STEADY DRIP, DRIP, DRIP OF DISTRESSING AND TOXIC CONTENT THAT LOCAL REPORTERS OR EVEN ONLINE CURATORS MAY EXPERIENCE.

>> I'M SPEAKING WITH BRUCE SHAPIRO, DIRECTOR OF THE DART CENTER FOR JOURNALISM AND TRAUMA AT COLUMBIA UNIVERSITY.

I THOUGHT IT WAS VERY INTERESTING THAT YOU SAID THAT JOURNALISTS WOULD ALSO FIT INTO FIRST RESPONDERS, ALTHOUGH WE ARE NOT NECESSARILY DOING THE SAME THINGS THAT, YOU KNOW, POLICE AND FIREFIGHTERS AND EMS WORKERS ARE, BUT THERE DOES SEEM TO BE A SIMILAR ETHOS OF, YOU KNOW, GET ON WITH IT, IF YOU WILL, SO THAT SOMETIMES WHEN YOU DO COVER TRAUMATIC STORIES THERE ISN'T A FULL PROCESSING OF WHAT IT WAS THAT WAS JUST EXPERIENCED.

>> WELL, WE ARE LIKE FIRST RESPONDERS IN THE SENSE THAT IT IS OUR JOB TO GO TOWARD DANGER OR GO TOWARD DISTRESS.

THE PUBLIC NEEDS US TO BE EYES AND EARS ON SCENE.

THE PUBLIC NEEDS US TO BE THE CHANNEL FOR INFORMATION, NEEDS PHOTOJOURNALISTS TO BE COLLECTING IMAGES.

SO WHETHER OR NOT WE'RE PATCHING UP PEOPLE'S WOUNDS, WE ARE IN THAT SENSE FIRST RESPONDERS, RIGHT?

THE REALITY IS THAT JOURNALISM IS A CRAFT.

WHEN YOU'RE OUT THERE DOING THE JOB, HOPEFULLY THE MUSCLES, THE TRAINING, THE SKILLS KICK IN, EVEN IN THE FACE OF A MASS SHOOTING, EVEN IN THE FACE OF THIS PANDEMIC.

PEOPLE BRING THEIR CRAFT SKILLS TO WORK.

THE CHALLENGE MAY COME AFTERWARDS.

THE CHALLENGE MAY BE EVENTS THAT KEEP REPLAYING IN A JOURNALIST'S MIND, IMAGES OR VOICES THEY CAN'T GET OUT OF THEIR HEAD OR THE BIOLOGICAL CHANGES ASSOCIATED WITH POSTTRAUMATIC STRESS DISORDER, LOSING THE ABILITY TO CONCENTRATION OR FEELING ISOLATED BY THE EXTREMITY OF WHAT WE'VE SEEN FROM OTHERS.

THOSE CAN BE BIG CHALLENGES AND THEY ARE CHALLENGES OF AFTERMATH RATHER THAN THE CHALLENGES OF THE HORROR AT THE MOMENT.

YOU KNOW, WE DO OUR JOB WELL WHEN IT COMES TO ACTUALLY REPORTING THINGS, THE QUESTION IS HOW DO WE HANDLE IT AFTERWARDS AND WHAT'S THE CONVERSATION WE HAVE AS A PROFESSION.

>> WELL, YOU SORT OF TOUCHED ON IT A LITTLE BIT, BUT ARE THERE ANY OTHER SIGNS OR SYMPTOMS OF HOW PTSD AT LEAST FROM YOUR WORK HAS STUDIED HAS FOUND OUT HOW PTSD SHOWS UP IN JOURNALISTS?

>> WELL, SO BEAR IN MIND FIRST OF ALL I'M A JOURNALIST NOT A CLINICIAN OR A NEUROSCIENCE PERSON, BUT THERE IS SOME GOOD SCIENCE ON THIS.

THE VERY MECHANISMS OF PSYCHOLOGICAL INJURY, OF POSTTRAUMATIC STRESS DISORDER AND OTHER REACTIONS, THE VERY MECHANISMS THAT CHANGE THE FAMILY GO TO THE HEART OF WHAT WE DO AS JOURNALISTS.

ONE OF THE CLASSIC SYMPTOMS OF PTSD, THERE ARE THINGS LIKE CHANGES IN CONCENTRATION, INTRUSIVE MEMORY, LOSS OF CONNECTION OR EMPATHY.

WE RELY ON ALL OF THOSE SKILLS, ON THE ACCURACY AND CONTROLABILITY OF MEMORY, ON OUR ABILITY TO CONCENTRATE AND MEET DEADLINE, ON OUR ABILITY TO EMPATHIZE AND CONNECT WITH SOURCES, WITH THE PUBLIC, TO DO THE JOB.

SO WHEN THOSE MECHANISMS ARE INTERFERED WITH, JOURNALISTS CAN BEGIN TO SUFFER A LOT.

THEY CAN SLIP IN THEIR CAPACITY TO REPORT WELL.

THEY MAY TAKE MORE RISKS THAN THEY SHOULD.

THEY MAY HAVE DIFFICULTIES AT HOME.

THESE ARE NO DIFFERENT THAN WHAT COPS OR FIREFIGHTERS EXPERIENCE, BUT THE CONVERSATION HAS COME A LITTLE LATER IN JOURNALISTS ABOUT HOW TO ACKNOWLEDGE IT AND HOW TO DEAL WITH IT WITHOUT INTERFERING WITH OUR PROFESSIONAL MISSION AND OUR DESIRE TO BE THERE FOR THE STORY.

>> OF COURSE.

AND THEN THERE'S ALWAYS THE -- WHEN I SAY CUMULATIVE EFFECT I MEAN NOT JUST FROM ONE STORY, THERE ARE MANY PEOPLE HAVE TALKED ABOUT THE FACT THAT WE'RE CURRENTLY IN A NEWS CYCLE THAT JUST DOESN'T SEEM TO GIVE ANY BREAKS.

>> THERE'S TWO THINGS, THERE'S CAREER-LONG EXPOSURE, FIRST OF ALL, WITH HE ALL COVER A LOT OF THE STUFF OVER THE COURSE OF OUR CAREERS, AND THEN THERE IS THE REALITY OF THE PRESENT.

WE ARE IN A NEWS CYCLE THAT DOESN'T GIVE YOU A BREAK, WE ARE IN A PANDEMIC IN WHICH TRADITIONAL BOUNDARIES THAT SEPARATE JOURNALISTS' WORK LIVES FROM OUR FAMILY LIVES, THOSE ARE ERODED, IN WHICH WE'RE DEALING WITH THE SAME STRESSES THAT EVERYONE ELSE IS BUT IN THE CONTEXT OF A TRADITIONALLY HIGH-STRESSED PROFESSION INVOLVING DEADLINES AND NOW ECONOMIC DISRUPTION, INDUSTRY CHANGE, FEAR FOR OUR LIVELIHOOD.

SO THIS IS -- THIS PANDEMIC IS UNQUESTIONABLY A HIGH-STRESS PERIOD FOR NEWS PROFESSIONALS, ADDED TO WHICH IS THE COST OF WITNESSING, THERE ARE SO MANY PHOTOGRAPHERS NOW WHO ARE THE WORLD'S EYES AND EARS ON THE FRONT LINE SHOWING US, ENABLING THE REST OF US TO IMAGINE THE DEGREE OF SUFFERING.

THERE CAN BE A COST TO THAT.

THERE CAN BE A COST TO JOURNALISTS WHO ARE DEALING WITH A LOT OF ONLINE HARASSMENT AND ABUSE, ALONG WITH THE NEWS CYCLE.

THERE'S SO MUCH THAT IS A CHALLENGE FOR NEWS PROFESSIONALS NOW AMID WHAT IS ARGUABLY ONE OF THE MOST IMPORTANT MOMENTS FOR THE ROLE OF NEWS PROFESSIONALS IN OUR LIFETIMES.

THE CENTRAL ROLE THAT JOURNALISTS PLAY IN COMMUNICATING AUTHORITATIVE INFORMATION, ENABLING THE PUBLIC TO ENVISION AND IMAGINE WHAT THIS PANDEMIC MEANS.

WE'RE ASKING JOURNALISTS TO CARRY THAT -- TO DO THAT JOB, WE'RE ALSO ASKING THEM, YOU KNOW, TO CARRY A COST.

>> BRUCE, WE'RE COMING UP ON THE END OF OUR TIME WHICH I CAN'T BELIEVE ALREADY, BUT I'VE HEARD YOU DESCRIBE JOURNALISM AS A PUBLIC SERVICE AND I WAS WONDERING IN ADDITION TO, YOU KNOW, SUPPORTING PARTICULARLY LOCAL MEDIA EITHER WITH SUBSCRIPTIONS OR DONATIONS, IS THERE SOMETHING ELSE THAT THE PUBLIC CAN DO TO SHOW APPRECIATION?

>> WELL, I THINK THERE'S SEVERAL THINGS.

FIRST OF ALL, IF YOU READ A STORY OR SEE A STORY OR HEAR A STORY THAT YOU LIKE, FIND A WAY TO ACKNOWLEDGE IT.

SHARE IT IN SOCIAL MEDIA, AND ALSO FIND A WAY TO THANK THE JOURNALIST, WHETHER IT'S WITH AN EMAIL, A DIRECT MESSAGE OR IN PERSON.

RIGHT NOW JOURNALISTS ARE COLLECTING A LOT OF ABUSE FROM HIGH LEVELS OF GOVERNMENT AND A LOT OF SECTORS OF POLITICAL SOCIETY.

ACKNOWLEDGING THAT WORK IS IMPORTANT.

DEFENDING THE WORK OF JOURNALISTS RIGHT NOW IS REALLY IMPORTANT.

AND UNDERSTANDING THAT THERE'S A DIFFERENCE BETWEEN THE MEDIA, CAPITAL T, CAPITAL M, WHICH IS SO EASILY DEMONIZED, AND THE WORK OF JOURNALISTS WHO EVERY DAY ARE OUT THERE TRYING TO BEAR WITNESS, MAKING DIFFICULT CHOICES ABOUT WHICH FACTS TO PRESENT, WHOSE STORY TO TELL, HOW TO PORTRAY THESE DIFFICULT EVENTS OF OUR TIME.

>> BRUCE, UNFORTUNATELY WE'RE GOING TO HAVE TO LEAVE IT THERE.

WE HAVE RUN OUT OF TIME.

BRUCE SHAPIRO EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR OF DART CENTER FOR JOURNALISM AND TRAUMA AT COLUMBIA UNIVERSITY.

THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR JOINING ME AND OF COURSE FOR STUDYING THAT EFFECT THAT MOST -- I THINK EVEN JOURNALISTS PROBABLY DON'T REALLY GIVE IT THE ATTENTION IT SHOULD GET.

>> THANK YOU FOR HAVING ME HERE.

VERY GLAD TO BE HERE.

>> ABSOLUTELY.

♪ >>> "METROFOCUS" IS MADE POSSIBLE BY -- SUE AND EDGAR WACHENHEIM III, THE PETER G. PETERSON AND JOAN GANZ COONEY FUND, BERNARD AND DENISE SCHWARTZ, BARBARA HOPE ZUCKERBERG, THE AMBROSE MONELL FOUNDATION.

AND BY -- ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪