>>> THIS IS "METROFOCUS" WITH RAFAEL PI ROMAN, JACK FORD, AND JENNA FLANAGAN.

"METROFOCUS" IS MADE POSSIBLE BY SUE AND EDGAR WACHENHEIM III, SYLVIA A.

AND SIMON B. POYTA PROGRAMMING ENDOWMENT TO FIGHT ANTI-SEMITISM, THE PETER G. PETERSON AND JOAN GANZ COONEY FUND, BERNARD AND DENISE SCHWARTZ, BARBARA HOPE ZUCKERBERG, THE AMBROSE MONELL FOUNDATION, AND BY JANET PRINDLE SEIDLER, JODY AND JOHN ARNHOLD, CHERYL AND PHILIP MILSTEIN FAMILY, JUDY AND JOSH WESTON, DR. ROBERT C. AND TINA SOHN FOUNDATION.

>>> GOOD EVENING AND WELCOME TO "METROFOCUS."

I'M RAFAEL PI ROMAN.

YOU KNOW, THE CONTINUING ROLLOUT OF THE CORONAVIRUS VACCINE HAS BROUGHT WELCOME HOPE THAT THE END OF THIS PANDEMIC MIGHT FINALLY BE IN SIGHT.

BUT MANY PEOPLE ACROSS THE COUNTRY WORRY THAT GETTING THE SHOTS COULD TRIGGER DANGEROUS ALLERGIC REACTIONS.

LATELY THAT ANXIETY HAS BEEN EXACERBATED BY VIDEOS PROLIFERATING ONLINE PURPORTING TO SHOW PEOPLE SUFFERING FROM ALARMING SIDE EFFECTS AFTER HAVING RECEIVED THE VACCINE.

SO ARE THE CONCERNS SURROUNDING THE VACCINES WELL FOUNDED?

WHAT ARE SOME OF THE MORE COMMON REACTIONS TO THE VACCINE?

AND WHAT ARE THE CONSEQUENCES IF A SIGNIFICANT NUMBER OF PEOPLE REFUSE TO GET VACCINATED?

JOINING US NOW TO ANSWER THESE AND OTHER QUESTIONS IS DR. PURVI PARIK.

SHE'S AN ALAROGIST AND IMMUNOLOGIST WITH THE ALLERGY AND ASTHMA NETWORK AND A CLINICAL PROFESSOR AT NYU WHO WAS INVOLVED IN CLINICAL TRIALS WITH BOTH PFIZER AND THE ASTRAZENECA VACCINE.

DOCTOR, THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR JOINING US.

IT'S A PLEASURE TO HAVE YOU HERE WITH US.

>> THANK YOU FOR HAVING ME.

>> SO FIRST QUESTION, DOCTOR, HOW UNPRECEDENTED WAS THE WARP SPEED OF THE DEVELOPMENT OF THIS COVID VACCINE?

>> IT WAS QUITE UNPRECEDENTED.

IT WAS THE FIRST TIME IN MAYBE 100 YEARS THE WHOLE GLOBAL SCIENTIFIC COMMUNITY WAS WORKING TOGETHER ON A COMMON GOAL FOR THIS VACCINE.

AND WE WERE ABLE TO GET A VACCINE OUT, YOU KNOW, IN EIGHT MONTHS OR SO.

WHICH BEFORE THAT IT WOULD NORMALLY TAKE AT LEAST FOUR YEARS WAS THE FASTEST WITH THE MEASLES VACCINE.

BUT THAT BEING SAID, DON'T LET THE NAME WARP SPEED FOOL YOU.

THIS WAS BASED ON OVER 30 YEARS OF RESEARCH ON THESE VACCINE PLATFORMS.

AND NONE OF THE SAFETY CHECKS WERE SKIPPED.

ALL THE THOROUGH DUE DILIGENCE WAS DONE IN ORDER FOR THIS VACCINE TO BE APPROVED.

>> AND THAT WAS MY FOLLOW-UP QUESTION BECAUSE AS YOU KNOW, THERE ARE A LOT OF PEOPLE WHO BELIEVE THAT BECAUSE IT WAS SO FASTLY DEVELOPED, SO QUICKLY DEVELOPED THAT IT'S MORE SUSCEPTIBLE TO UNINTENDED CONSEQUENCES, THAT IT'S MORE UNSTABLE.

YOU'RE SAYING NO.

>> RIGHT.

NO.

SO BECAUSE, ONE, WE HAD DEVELOPED IT QUICKLY WE HAVE HALF A MILLION AMERICANS ALONE THAT HAVE DIED AND SUCCUMBED TO THIS VIRUS, NOT TO MENTION ALL OF THE OTHERS WHO SURVIVED HAVE MANY, MANY LONG-TERM CONSEQUENCES, PERMANENT ORGAN DAMAGE AND MANY OTHERS.

SO YOU KNOW, THE SPEED WAS NECESSARY AND THE URGENCY WAS NECESSARY.

HOWEVER, NONE OF THOSE SAFETY CHECKS WERE SKIPPED.

IN FACT, IN MANY INSTANCES THE FDA WOULD DO THEIR OWN INVESTIGATION EVEN AFTER GLOBAL AGENCIES RESUMED AFTER PAUSING THE TRIAL.

SO I REALLY DO FEEL THAT ALL OF THE SAFETY CHECKS WERE FOLLOWED AND THE DUE DILIGENCE WAS DONE.

>> AS I MENTIONED IN THE INTRODUCTION, THERE ARE VIDEOS PROLIFERATING ONLINE WHICH REPORTEDLY SHOW PEOPLE EXPERIENCING VERY NEGATIVE REACTIONS TO THE VACCINE AFTER HAVING TAKEN THE VACCINE.

YOU KNOW, REACTIONS LIKE SHAKING, TREMBLING, OR WRITHING IN APPARENT PAIN.

FIRST OF ALL, ARE THOSE TYPICAL SYMPTOMS OF A BAD REACTION TO THE VACCINE?

AND WHAT DO YOU THINK OF THESE VIDEOS OVERALL?

AS FAR AS I KNOW, AND I THINK I'M RIGHT, THEY HAVEN'T BEEN FACT CHECKED.

THEY HAVEN'T BEEN VERIFIED.

>> RIGHT.

SO ONE, NO, IT'S NOT TYPICAL.

WE HAVE OVER 50 MILLION PEOPLE VACCINATED TO DATE, INCLUDING MYSELF AND FAMILY MEMBERS AND COLLEAGUES, AND I'VE NEVER HEARD OR SEEN THAT.

TWO, I WANT TO KNOW IF THESE VIDEOS ARE ACTUALLY REAL.

JUST TALKING ABOUT VACCINE REACTIONS, SPECIFICALLY ALLERGIC REACTIONS, THEY'RE EXCEEDINGLY RARE.

YOU'RE ACTUALLY STATISTICALLY MORE LIKELY TO BE HIT BY LIGHTNING THAN TO HAVE A TRUE ALLEGIC OR AN FLATTIC REACTION TO A VACCINE.

AND EVEN OUTSIDE OF THAT THE JOURNAL OF THE AMERICAN MEDICAL ASSOCIATION LOOKED AT THE FIRST MONTH OF ALL THE VACCINE REACTIONS AND FOUND ONLY .0003% WERE TRULY ALLERGIC REACTIONS.

AND CDC CONFIRMED THAT.

THEY SAID OF ALL THE REACTIONS REPORTED ONLY 10% WERE ALLERGIC AND ALL OF THE OTHER KIND OF THINGS THAT WERE FELT OR THE OTHER SIDE EFFECTS WERE NOT PERMANENT AND THEY WERE EXPECTED.

SO AGAIN, IT'S NOT VERY COMMON AND I'VE NEVER SEEN ANYTHING LIKE THOSE VIDEOS IN THE REAL WORLD, THE WRITHING AND SHAKING AND THOSE KINDS OF ONES.

>> BUT WHAT ARE THE TYPICAL MANIFESTATIONS?

IF YOU HAVE SOMETHING OF A NEGATIVE REACTION.

>> RIGHT.

SO YOU KNOW, COMMONLY YOU CAN HAVE ARM SORENESS, ARM PAIN.

THAT'S EXPECTED.

YOU CAN ALSO HAVE FEVER, CHILLS, MUSCLE ACHES.

BUT ALL OF THESE ARE ACTUALLY GOOD SIGNS THAT YOUR IMMUNE SYSTEM IS WORKING.

YOU KNOW, AND IT'S PROCESSING THE VACCINE.

IT DOESN'T MEAN YOU'RE SICK.

THERE'S NO ACTUAL VIRUS IN THE VACCINE ITSELF.

THERE'S A LOT OF THINGS THAT MIMIC VACCINES OR VACCINE REACTIONS.

FOR EXAMPLE, SOMETIMES IF PEOPLE ARE VERY NERVOUS OR STRESSED OUT THEY MIGHT FEEL THEIR HEART RACING OR THEY MIGHT BE SHAKING BUT IT'S NOT ANYTHING DANGEROUS.

AGAIN, IT'S WHAT WE CALL VASAOVASAL.

WHEN WE GET SHOTS ALL THE TIME, NEEDLES.

OVER 50 MILLION PEOPLE HAVE RECEIVED THE VACCINE AND HAVE DONE EXCEEDINGLY WELL.

>> DO WE KNOW WHO ARE THE PEOPLE WHO MAY BE A LITTLE BIT MORE SUSCEPTIBLE TO A NEGATIVE ALLERGIC REACTION?

>> RIGHT.

SO IN GENERAL, IF YOU HAVE ALLERGIES YOU'RE MORE LIKELY TO HAVE ALLERGIC REACTIONS OVERALL.

SO IF YOU ARE AN ALLERGY SUFFERER, WAIT 30 MINUTES AFTER YOUR VACCINE INSTEAD OF THE 15 MINUTES FOR THE GENERAL PUBLIC.

BUT OVERALL WE'VE HAD MANY PEOPLE WITH SEVERE ALLERGIES WHO RECEIVED THE VACCINE IN THE CLINICAL TRIALS AS WELL AS NOW OUTSIDE THE TRIALS IN THE REAL WORLD AND HAVE HAD NO ISSUE WHATSOEVER.

SO THE ONLY REAL REASON NOT TO GET IT IS IF YOU'RE ALLERGIC TO ONE OF THE INGREDIENTS INSIDE THE VACCINE ITSELF.

POLYETHYLENE GLYCOL IS ONE OF THE INGREDIENTS WE THINK MIGHT BE THE CULPRIT.

WE DON'T KNOW FOR SURE.

BUT OUTSIDE OF THAT IF YOU HAVE OTHER ALLERGIES YOU ABSOLUTELY SHOULD STILL PROCEED WITH THE VACCINE, JUST TAKE EXTRA PRECAUTIONS.

>> DO WE KNOW IF ANY FATALITIES HAVE BEEN RECORDED, FATALITIES AS A RESULT OF HAVING BEEN VACCINATED WITH THE COVID VACCINE?

>> RIGHT.

SO THAT'S ANOTHER MISCONCEPTION.

THERE HAVE BEEN ZERO FATALITIES FROM THE COVID VACCINE ITSELF.

BUT AGAIN, I'D JUST LIKE TO REITERATE THERE HAVE BEEN 500,000-PLUS FATALITIES IN OUR COUNTRY FROM THE ACTUAL CORONAVIRUS, FROM THIS PANDEMIC.

SO TO ME IT'S KIND OF A NO-BRAINER.

I WOULD RATHER TAKE MY CHANCES ON THE VACCINE THAN THE VIRUS.

>> YOU KNOW, FOR WEEKS WE'VE BEEN HEARING ABOUT THE NEW VARIANTS OF THE VIRUS.

THE UK OR THE SOUTH AFRICA VARIANT.

AND NOW WE KNOW THAT THEY HAVE REACHED OUR SHORE.

THAT HERE IN THE METRO AREA THERE HAVE BEEN CASES OF THOSE VARIANTS.

ARE WE CONFIDENT THAT THE VACCINES THAT WE HAVE WILL WORK ON THOSE VARIANTS OR VARIANTS THAT MAY SPRING UP IN THE FUTURE?

>> THE GOOD NEWS IS THEY ARE APPROVED CURRENTLY FOR EMERGENCY USE, MODERNA PFIZER ARE GOOD AT NEUTRALIZING OR EFFICACY AGAINST THE UK VARIANT.

HOWEVER, WITH THE SOUTH AFRICAN VARIANT IT DOES LOOK LIKE THE EFFICACY IS NOT AS GOOD.

BUT AGAIN, THAT DOESN'T MEAN THE VACCINE DOESN'T WORK AND THAT YOU SHOULDN'T TAKE IT.

ACTUALLY, IF ANYTHING, THAT MEANS WE NEED TO GET MORE PEOPLE VACCINATED BECAUSE YOU KNOW, IF THE VIRUS SUN ABLE TO REPLICATE THEN IT CAN'T MUTATE.

FOR THOSE REASONS THE MORE PEOPLE THAT ARE VACCINATED THE LESS LIKELY IT IS FOR THAT VIRUS TO MUTATE AND BECOME A SITUATION WHERE THE VACCINES DON'T WORK.

BOTH COMPANIES ARE LOOKING TO MODIFY THEIR VACCINATION SCHEDULE AND THEY'RE BOTH TESTING A BOOSTER DOSE TOO.

BUT YES, THE VACCINES WILL STILL SAVE YOUR LIFE, THEY'LL STILL KEEP YOU OUT OF THE HOSPITAL, WHICH IS THE MOST IMPORTANT THING.

>> HEALTH OFFICIALS HAVE BEEN TELLING US WHAT YOU JUST SAID, THAT IT'S IMPORTANT FOR PEOPLE TO GET VACCINATED NOT ONLY TO PROTECT THEMSELVES, BECAUSE THE MORE -- BUT BECAUSE THE MORE PEOPLE GET VACCINATED THE CLOSER WE ARE TO HERD IMMUNITY, WHICH ESSENTIALLY KILLS THE VIRUS.

BUT AT THE SAME TIME SOME OF THOSE HEALTH OFFICIALS HAVE BEEN SAYING, WELL, EVEN WITH THE VACCINE YOU'RE STILL GOING TO HAVE TO WEAR MASKS FOR A LONG TIME, YOU'RE STILL GOING TO HAVE TO SOCIAL DISTANCE, AND DR. FAUCI WENT EVEN FURTHER, SAYING "THERE ARE THINGS EVEN IF YOU'RE VACCINATED THAT YOU'RE NOT GOING TO BE ABLE TO DO IN SOCIETY, FOR EXAMPLE, INDOOR DINING, THEATERS, PLACES WHERE PEOPLE CONGREGATE."

ARE YOU CONCERNED THAT PEOPLE WHO ALREADY HAVE?

DOUBTS ABOUT THE VACCINE WILL SAY IF IT'S NOT GOING TO CHANGE ANYTHING, IF IT'S NOT GOING TO CHANGE THAT MUCH, MAYBE I SHOULDN'T TAKE THE RISK?

IS THERE BETTER MESSAGING?

>> RIGHT.

I THINK THE BETTER MESSAGE IS THAT YOU KNOW, THE VACCINE ISN'T MEANT TO BE A CURE SO THAT WE CAN JUST FLIP THE SWITCH BACK TO NORMAL BUT WHAT THE VACCINE IS MEANT TO DO IS IT WILL PROTECT YOU FROM DYING, IT WILL PROTECT YOUR LOVED ONES FROM DYING AND IT WILL PROTECT EVERYONE IF YOU HAPPEN TO GET SICK, THEY'LL GET A MUCH MILDER FORM OF THIS VIRUS SO THEY DON'T END UP IN THE HOSPITAL, THEY DON'T END UP IN THE ICU.

PEOPLE ARE SO FOCUSED ON THE DEATH RATE THAT THEY FORGET THAT THE MAJORITY OF PEOPLE WHO'VE RECOVERED FROM CORONAVIRUS, OVER 75%, STILL HAVE SOME LONG-TERM CONSEQUENCE.

SO THERE'S PEOPLE WHO HAD NORMAL KIDNEYS THAT ARE NOW ON DIALYSIS.

PEOPLE WITH LIVER FAILURE, LUNG FAILURE.

SO THEIR LIFE HAS CHANGED FOREVER, YOU KNOW.

SO ACTUALLY, THERE IS A CHANGE, A VERY POSITIVE CHANGE.

BUT WE HAVE TO BE PATIENT TO KIND OF GET BACK THOSE DAY-TO-DAY ACTIVITIES.

BUT THE KEY MESSAGE HERE IS IT WILL SAVE YOUR LIFE, IT WILL SAVE THE LIVES OF THOSE AROUND YOU, WHICH I THINK IS THE BIGGEST AND GREATEST CHANGE.

>> DO YOU ACTUALLY SEE, HAVE YOU SEEN EVIDENCE THAT THERE ARE IN FACT LARGE NUMBERS OF AMERICANS WHO ARE REFUSING TO GET VACCINATED?

>> YEAH.

UNFORTUNATELY, MUCH OF THIS PANDEMIC MANY SCIENTIFIC THINGS HAVE BEEN QUESTIONED OR POLITICIZED.

SO THERE ARE UNFORTUNATELY A LARGE AMOUNT OF PEOPLE THAT ARE HESITANT OR THEY'RE WAITING TO SEE HOW IT GOES.

I THINK THEY'RE WORRIED ABOUT ANY POTENTIAL LONG-TERM SIDE EFFECTS.

BUT THE GOOD NEWS IS I'VE BEEN SEEING THAT THE HESITANCY HAS SLOWLY BEEN DECREASING AS THE ROLLOUT GOES ON.

I THINK AS PEOPLE SEE THEIR PEERS RECEIVING THE VACCINE THEY FEEL MORE COMFORTABLE.

SO I HOPE THAT HESITANCY CONTINUES TO DECREASE.

AND WE GET MORE PEOPLE VACCINATED.

>> WELL, YOU KNOW, AT LEAST IN THIS AREA, IN THE METRO AREA, AND I CAN ATTEST TO THIS FACT, THE PROBLEM SEEMS TO BE IT'S NOT THAT PEOPLE DON'T WANT TO GET VACCINATED.

IT'S THAT THOSE OF US WHO WANT TO GET VACCINATED CAN'T OR CAN'T DO IT WITHOUT WAITING A LONG TIME.

I'VE BEEN WAITING A LONG TIME.

ARE THOSE BOTTLENECKS IN THE PROCESS OF ALLOWING PEOPLE TO GET VACCINATED, ARE THEY IMPROVING, DO YOU THINK?

>> YEAH.

SO I THINK DEFINITELY THEY'RE IMPROVING.

WE'VE IMPROVED FROM WHERE WE STARTED BUT THERE'S STILL A VERY, VERY LONG WAY TO GO.

UNFORTUNATELY, YOU KNOW, IN ORDER FOR US TO REALLY GET AHEAD OF THESE VARIANTS, AHEAD OF THESE MUTATIONS AND REACH THAT HERD IMMUNITY WE REALLY NEED TO BE VACCINATING MANY MORE PEOPLE ON A DAILY BASIS.

SO YOU KNOW, I'LL SAY WE HAVE IMPROVED BUT WE STILL NEED TO INCREASE THE ACCESS.

WE NEED TO INCREASE THE SUPPLY SO WE CAN GET AS MUCH OF THE GENERAL POPULATION VACCINATED AS SOON AS POSSIBLE.

>> SO IF WE -- IF THE PACE OF VACCINATION CONTINUES MORE OR LESS AS IT IS NOW OR GETS BETTER AS EVERYBODY EXPECTS THAT IT WILL GET BETTER, WHEN DO YOU FORESEE THAT WE WILL HIT HERD IMMUNITY IN THIS COUNTRY?

>> RIGHT.

SO CURRENT PROJECTIONS ARE LOOKING AT LATE SUMMER OR FALL OF 2021.

I AM HOPING THAT IT'S SOONER, AGAIN, GIVEN EVERYTHING THAT'S BEEN GOING ON.

BUT THAT'S WHAT WE'RE LOOKING AT RIGHT NOW.

THAT'S ALSO DEPENDENT ON THE FACT THAT WE CONTINUE TO HAVE MORE SITES OPENING UP, MORE SUPPLY, YOU KNOW, BECAUSE THE SHORTAGE OF DOSES ARE ALSO A REAL ISSUE.

SO LET'S SEE.

FINGERS CROSSED THAT HOPEFULLY BY THE BALL WE'LL HAVE SOME BETTER NEWS.

>> IN 15 SECONDS WHAT'S THE MOST IMPORTANT LESSON WE'VE LEARNED ABOUT VACCINATIONS DURING THIS PANDEMIC?

15 SECONDS.

>> THE MOST IMPORTANT LESSON IS THAT VACCINES SAVE LIVES.

IT'S THE SINGLE MOST EFFICIENT IMMUNE BOOSTER.

THE ONE THING THAT WILL PROTECT YOU WITHIN WEEKS.

AND EVERYONE SHOULD BE FAR MORE AFRAID OF THE VIRUS THAN THE VACCINE.

WE'VE HAD SUCH A GREAT DEATH TOLL THAT WE'RE LOSING MORE PEOPLE THAN ANY POTENTIAL SIDE EFFECT FROM THE VACCINE ITSELF.

>> THANK YOU, DOCTOR.

IMPORTANT INFORMATION.

WE'LL TALK AGAIN.

THANK YOU.

>> THANK YOU.

>>> WELCOME TO "METROFOCUS."

I'M RAFAEL PI ROMAN.

YOU KNOW, AFTER THE ELECTION YEAR WE'VE JUST EXPERIENCED IT'S CERTAINLY UNDERSTANDABLE IF YOU'RE NOT IN A RUSH TO VOTE AGAIN ANYTIME SOON.

BUT IN JUST A FEW MONTHS VOTERS WILL BE ADDED ONCE AGAIN BECAUSE THERE ARE SEVERAL CRUCIAL RACES ON THE BALLOT HERE IN THE TRI-STATE AREA.

ONE OF THOSE RACES IS IN THE GARDEN STATE WHERE GOVERNOR PHIL MURPHY IS SEEKING A SECOND TERM.

BUT WILL INCUMBENCY AND HIS PERSONAL FORTUNE BE ENOUGH TO HELP PROPEL HIM TO ANOTHER FOUR YEARS IN OFFICE?

HOW WILL VOTERS RESPOND TO THE WAY HE'S HANDLED THE COVID CRISIS?

AND WHAT KIND OF CHALLENGE CAN REPUBLICANS REALISTICALLY MOUNT IN AN INCREASINGLY BLUE STATE?

JOINING US NOW TO HELP ANSWER THESE AND OTHER QUESTIONS IS STEVE ADUBATO, A "METROFOCUS" CONTRIBUTOR, THE HOST OF "ONE ON ONE WITH STEVE ADUBATO," AND THE AUTHOR OF THE FORTHCOMING BOOK "LESSONS IN LEADERSHIP, INNOVATION AND DISRUPTION IN AN AGE OF COVID-19 AND BEYOND."

IT'S A LONG TITLE BUT IT'S A WORTHY TITLE FOR A WORTHY BOOK.

STEVE, WELCOME BACK.

>> GOOD TO BE WITH YOU, MY FRIEND.

>> STEVE, LET ME START WITH A QUESTION I POSED IN THE INTRODUCTION.

WHAT ARE GOVERNOR MURPHY'S CHANCES OF GETTING RE-ELECTED?

>> AS WE DO THIS INTERVIEW, RAF, THEY'RE PRETTY DARN GOOD, AND I'LL TELL YOU WHY.

YOU MENTIONED THE INCUMBENCY.

BEING INCUMBENT IN NEW JERSEY, THE 1942 ZUNE OF NJ GIVES THE GOVERNOR MORE POWER THAN ANY OTHER GOVERNOR IN THE NATION.

LINE ITEM VETO.

THEY DON'T LIKE SOMETHING THAT SOMEONE PUTS INTO A BUDGET IT'S OUT.

RED PEN.

LITERALLY COMES OUT.

RIGHT?

YOU CAN'T DO THAT IN EVERY STATE.

PERSONAL FORTUNE IS ONE THING.

THE AMOUNT OF MONEY THAT PHIL MURPHY HAS RAISED AS AN INCUMBENT GOVERNOR IS EXTRAORDINARY.

THAT LARGESSE, THAT WAR CHEST IS A BIG DEAL.

AND HE'S READY AND WILLING TO SPEND IT.

I WASN'T SURE HE WAS GOING TO STAY.

IN ONE OF THE INTERVIEWS WE DID FOR "METROFOCUS" I THINK I WRONGLY PREDICTED HE MAY GO, IF JOE BIDEN WON, TO THE ADMINISTRATION.

HE AIN'T GOING.

HE'S STAYING.

AND HE'S A JERSEY GUY WHO WANTS TO WIN RE-ELECTION AND CAN PUT ALL HIS MONEY BEHIND IT.

ONE MORE THING.

HOW THE COVID SITUATION CONTINUES TO PLAY OUT IN NEW JERSEY, THE VACCINE DISTRIBUTION DEBACLE IF YOU WILL, THESE BUSINESSES CONTINUING TO SUFFER, A LOT OF THAT'S GOING TO BE PUT AT GOVERNOR MURPHY'S FEET AND HE WILL BE HELD ACCOUNTABLE WHETHER HE THINKS IT'S FAIR OR NOT P. >> WE'LL TALK ABOUT THAT.

BUT THE FACT OF THE MATTER, STEVE, IS YOU KNOW, HE'S AT 60% APPROVAL AND MOST OF THAT IS BECAUSE OF THE APPROVAL BY MANY NEW JERSEYANS OF THE JOB HE'S DONE WITH COVID-19 DURING THE COVID-19 CRISIS.

WHAT IS IT ABOUT HOW HE'S PERFORMED THAT HAS GARNERED SO MUCH SUPPORT?

>> YOU KNOW, A LOT OF -- IN MY VIEW, RAF, ANALYZING GOVERNOR MURPHY AND HOW HE'S PERCEIVED BY MOST NEW JERSEYANS AS YOU JUST SAID WAS OFTEN IN COMPARISON TO THE FEDERAL ADMINISTRATION OF PRESIDENT TRUMP, MEANING GOVERNOR MURPHY WAS OUT THERE EVERY DAY.

HE IS OUT THERE EVERY DAY WITH HIS HEALTH COMMISSIONER JUDY PERSICELLI.

EVERY DAY IN THE WEEDS GIVING THE DETAILS, RECOGNIZING THOSE WHO ARE LOST, SHOWING EMPATHY, SHOWING COMPASSION, SHOWING AN EASE IN THIS, IF YOU WILL.

AS A LEADER, RAF, IN AN ONGOING CRISIS LIKE THIS THAT'S A HUGE DEAL.

COMPARE THAT TO WHAT WAS GOING ON.

THERE'S A BRIEFING THERE'S NOT A BRIEFING, THERE'S A TASK FORCE THERE'S NOT A TASK FORCE.

TRUMP BELIEVES IN MASKS, NO, HE MOCKS PEOPLE FOR WEARING MASKS.

NOW IT'S DIFFERENT WITH JOE BIDEN AT PRESIDENT.

BUT I WILL SAY THIS.

GOVERNOR MURPHY'S BEEN VERY STEADY FROM DAY ONE.

ONE MORE THING, RAF.

THE FIRST CASE IN NEW JERSEY OF COVID BACK IN MARCH OF 2020, WAS LITERALLY THE DAY HE GOT OPERATED ON FOR CANCER.

GOVERNOR MURPHY NEVER MISSED A DAY OF WORK.

HE GETS TREMENDOUS CREDIT FOR THAT.

>> SO TO THE POINT THAT YOU MADE BEFORE, WHAT HAPPENS IF THE VACCINE ROLLOUT DOESN'T IMPROVE?

AND WHAT ABOUT THE ISSUE OF THE DEATHS IN THE NURSING HOMES AFTER THE POLICY OF BRINGING IN PEOPLE WHO MIGHT HAVE BEEN COVID POSITIVE INTO THOSE NURSING HOMES?

IS THAT GOING TO COME BACK TO HAUNT HIM?

>> I'M GOING TO TAKE THE VACCINE DISTRIBUTION FIRST, THEN I'LL GO NURSING HOME.

ON THE VACCINE DISTRIBUTION GOVERNOR MURPHY'S GOING TO CONTINUE TO SAY HE CAN'T AND THE STATE CAN'T AND THE COUNTIES AND LOCALITIES CAN'T DO IT AND DO IT WELL, THE VACCINE DISTRIBUTIONS BECAUSE THE SUPPLY'S NOT THERE.

AS WE DO THIS PROGRAM.

WE'RE HOPING AND PRAYING THAT CHANGES.

BUT GOVERNOR MURPHY'S ONLY GOING TO BE ABLE TO BLAME THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT FOR SO LONG BECAUSE NOW IT'S JOE BIDEN'S ADMINISTRATION.

AND THE BIDEN ADMINISTRATION CAN'T JUST SIMPLY BLAME THE TRUMP ADMINISTRATION FOR WHAT THEY DID OR DIDN'T DO.

AND ULTIMATELY I BELIEVE THE GOVERNOR IF THE EXECUTION PLAN IS NOT EXECUTED MORE EFFECTIVELY HE WILL BE HELD ACCOUNTABLE.

POLL NUMBERS WILL GO DOWN AS WILL THE RATES IN THE NURSING HOMES.

SEVEN PREVIOUS "METROFOCUS" SEGMENTS.

I'LL SAY IT AGAIN.

IT WAS A TERRIBLE MISTAKE TO SEND PEOPLE WITH COVID BACK INTO THOSE NURSING HOMES WITHOUT GUARANTEEING THEY WERE GOING TO BE QUARANTINED, SEPARATED FROM OTHERS.

THE GOVERNOR BLAMES THE NURSING HOMES.

THE NURSING HOMES SAID LISTEN, THEY SENT THEM BACK, WE WEREN'T READY.

THAT'S A MISTAKE THAT THE GOVERNOR MADE.

AND I DON'T KNOW HOW IT'S GOING TO AFFECT HIM IN THE ELECTION.

BUT IT'S A LEADERSHIP MISTAKE.

I KNOW THAT.

>> GOVERNOR MURPHY GAVE HIS STATE OF THE STATE ADDRESS IN EARLY JANUARY.

AND SOME PUNDITS CALLED IT HIS FIRST RE-ELECTION CAMPAIGN SPEECH.

DO YOU AGREE?

AND WHAT WAS IN IT THAT HE LISTED?

WHAT ACCOMPLISHMENTS DID HE LIST?

>> YEAH, THAT WAS A CAMPAIGN SPEECH.

SO WHAT CHIEF EXECUTIVE DOESN'T GIVE A STATE OF THE STATE OR THE STATE OF WHATEVER AS A POLITICAL SPEECH?

HE'S PROUD OF RAISING THE MINIMUM WAGE IN THE STATE.

HE'S PROUD OF LEGALIZING MARIJUANA EXCEPT IT HASN'T ACTUALLY HAPPENED EVEN THOUGH THERE'S A LAW.

HE'S PROUD OF THE MILLIONAIRE'S TAX.

PROUD OF THAT.

HE ARGUES THAT WE NEED THAT REVENUE.

HE'S PROUD OF BEING ABLE TO BORROW 10 MILLION SXDS WAS ABLE TO DO IT IN THE MIDST OF COVID, EVEN THOUGH THE MONEY HASN'T BEEN SPENT.

HE'S PROUD OF A LOT OF THINGS.

BUT I HAVE TO TELL YOU, ULTIMATELY, REGARDLESS OF ALL OF THAT, ULTIMATELY HE WILL BE JUDGED ON THE COVID VACCINE PLAN, THE NUMBER OF DEATHS AND SIGNIFICANT ILLNESS IN NEW JERSEY AS WE MOVE FORWARD.

>> YOU KNOW, ONE OF THE PROBLEMS THAT THE GOVERNOR WAS HAVING BEFORE COVID HIT WAS HIS INABILITY TO GET ALONG WITH THE DEMOCRATIC MAJORITY IN THE LEGISLATURE AND PARTICULARLY THE PRESIDENT OF THE SENATE STEVE SWEENEY, SOMETHING THAT JON CORZINE KNEW A LITTLE ABOUT.

HE TAUNTS HIM EVERY ELECTION.

>> ABSOLUTELY.

>> HAS COVID HELPED OVERCOME THAT DIFFERENCE BETWEEN THESE TWO MEN?

>> LOOK, I DON'T KNOW HOW THEY ACTUALLY FEEL ABOUT EACH OOH PERSONALLY BUT IT'S NOT THAT RELEVANT AND I'LL TELL YOU WHY.

IT SEEMS TO ME STEVE SWEENEY, THE LONG-TIME PRESIDENT OF THE SENATE AND THE GOVERNOR, IS SMART ENOUGH TO KNOW WHETHER THEY LIKE EACH OTHER OR NOT.

IN THE MIDST OF COVID WITH PEOPLE DYING AS WE DO THIS PROGRAM, 21,000 NEW JERSEYANS, YOU DON'T HAVE THE LUXURY OF PLAYING PETTY NOT EVEN PARTISAN GAMES BUT PERSONALITY GAMES.

YES, STEVE SWEENEY WANTED TO BE GOVERNOR, STILL WANTS TO BE GOVERNOR, BUT PHIL MURPHY'S THE GOVERNOR.

AND STEVE SWEENEY IS A VERY POWERFUL PRESIDENT OF THE SENATE, AND MURPHY KNOWS HE CAN'T GET A LOT DONE IF HE DOESN'T GET ALONG WITH SWEENEY.

AND SWEENEY KNOWS THAT HAVING A BETTER RELATIONSHIP WITH THE GOVERNOR IS MORE EFFECTIVE FOR HIM.

IT'S PRACTICAL POLITICS.

IT'S NEW JERSEY.

>> SO FOR THE TIME BEING THEY'RE WORKING TOGETHER?

>> YES.

COMPARED TO WHAT WAS GOING ON BEFORE.

ABSOLUTELY, RAF.

>> WELL, OBVIOUSLY, GOVERNOR MURPHY'S GOING TO BE FACING A REPUBLICAN COME NOVEMBER.

WHO IS THE LIKELY REPUBLICAN?

IS THERE A FRONT-RUNNER?

>> NOT REALLY.

THERE WAS.

A FEW WEEKS AGO AS WE'RE TAPING THIS THERE WERE TWO CANDIDATES, DOUG STEINHART, WHO WAS THE CHAIR OF THE REPUBLICAN STATE COMMITTEE.

JACK CIATTARELLI, A BUSINESSPERSON, BUSINESSMAN WHO'S ALSO A FORMER MEMBER OF THE STATE LEGISLATURE.

AND STEINHART DROPPED OUT.

STEINHART WAS A BIG SUPPORTER OF DONALD TRUMP.

AFTER JANUARY 6th, THE INSURRECTION AT THE UNITED STATES CAPITOL, INTERESTING, DOUG STEINHART, WHO WAS A LAWYER, WHO HAPPENED TO BE EMPLOYED, RAF, AT A LAW FIRM HEADED BY SOMEONE WHO YOU AND I INTERVIEWED MANY TIMES, THE FORMER GOVERNOR OF NEW JERSEY JIM FLORIO, IRONICALLY, I'M SURE IT'S A COINCIDENCE, RAF, THAT RIGHT AFTER THE 6th DOUG STEINHART DROPPED OUT OF THE GOVERNOR'S RACE.

SOME HAVE ARGUED, AND I THINK IT'S LEGITIMATE, THAT REALLY COULD HAVE HURT THAT FIRM AND THEIR BUSINESS.

HIM BEING SO SUPPORTIVE OF PRESIDENT TRUMP AFTER THE 6th.

>> I SEE.

SO IT'S NOT BECAUSE REPUBLICANS IN NEW JERSEY WERE GOING TO TURN ON HIM BECAUSE HE WAS SO PRO TRUMP.

IT WAS BECAUSE HE WAS CONCERNED ABOUT THE FIRM'S BUSINESS.

>> LOOK, YOU LOOK AT THE NUMBERS IN NEW JERSEY AND ACROSS THE NATION.

BUT IN THE NEW JERSEY REPUBLICAN PRIMARY A VERY CONSERVATIVE, LEANING RIGHT, PROTRUMP CANDIDATE ACTUALLY HAS AN EDGE OVER A MORE MODERATE REPUBLICAN LIKE JACK CIATTARELLI.

IN THE SPHERE OF TOM KANE SR., CHRISTIE WHITMAN, MORE MODERATE.

IRONICALLY, JACK CIATTARELLI MOVED TO THE RIGHT EARLY ON BECAUSE HE THOUGHT -- AND HE WAS, BY THE WAY, 2016 A NEVER TRUMPER.

LATER ON, EH, MAYBE A LITTLE BIT WITH TRUMP, I DON'T WANT TO CRITICIZE HIM.

NOW HE'S TRYING TO MOVE TO THE MIDDLE BECAUSE HE HAS NO CHALLENGER IN THE REPUBLICAN PRIMARY -- >> HE DOES HAVE A COUPLE CHALLENGERS IN THE PRIMARY.

RIGHT?

BUT LET'S FACE IT, HE'S NOW THE FRONT-RUNNER?

>> BY FAR.

I RESPECT OTHER PEOPLE WHO ARE RUNNING, RAF, BUT POLITICAL OBSERVERS IN THE STATE RECOGNIZE THAT WHEN DOUG STEINHART DROPPED OUT THE NOMINATION WAS JACK CIATTARELLI'S TO LOSE.

>> SO WHAT DOES HE HAVE GOING FOR HIM THAT MAY GARNER HIM A VICTORY AGAINST MURPHY AND WHAT ARE THE THINGS THAT THE MURPHY CAMPAIGN IS GOING TO USE AGAINST HIM?

>> WELL, RIGHT AWAY THE MURPHY CAMPAIGN'S GOING TO SAY WAIT A MINUTE, YOU REFUSED TO BE CRITICAL OF DONALD TRUMP WHEN TRUMP WAS SAYING THE MOST DIVISIVE, POLARIZING THINGS.

YOU REFUSE, JACK CIATTARELLI, TO BE CRITICAL OF THE PRESIDENT FOR A SPEECH HE GAVE ON THE MORNING OF JANUARY 6th BECAUSE YOU SAID, "THE ELECTION'S ONLY ABOUT GOVERNOR MURPHY."

YOU CAN GET AWAY WITH THAT FOR ONLY SO LONG.

HIS ADVANTAGES ARE THE PROBLEMS AND CHALLENGES THAT GOVERNOR MURPHY IS GOING TO HAVE.

I'M REPEATING MYSELF LIKE A BROKEN RECORD.

AS RELATES TO KOIFD, AS RELATES TO THE NEW JERSEY ECONOMY, AS RELATES TO JOBS BEING LOST, BIDSES BEING CLOSED PRKTSLY SMALL BUSINESSES.

JACK CIATTARELLI'S ENTIRE CAMPAIGN IS GOING TO BE GOVERNOR MURPHY SHUT DOWN THIS STATE.

GOVERNOR MURPHY'S GOING TO SAY I PROTECTED THE STATE.

WE'LL SEE WHAT VOTERS DECIDE.

WE'VE SEEN DOUG LEAN PRETTY HARD TO THE DEMOCRATIC SIDE, PRETTY BLUE.

>> AND I GUESS IF THE VACCINES WORK THE HEALTH ASPECT OF THE COVID WILL BE IN THE REARVIEW MIRROR AND THE ECONOMIC ASPECTS OF COVID WILL BE FRONT AND CENTER.

AND IF UNEMPLOYMENT IS AT 10% STILL, WHICH IT IS NOW, THAT COULD BE TROUBLE.

OR WAS IT 10% WHEN CORZINE LOST, RIGHT?

>> ABSOLUTELY, RAF, GREAT POINT.

BUT IT SEEMS TO ME YOU CANNOT SEPARATE THE HEALTH CONSIDERATIONS IN A RESTAURANT, IN A GYM, WHATEVER, IN A STORE, YOU CANNOT SEPARATE THOSE HEALTH ISSUES -- I HAVE MY MASK RIGHT HERE.

JUST LOOKING FOR IT TO PROVE A POINT.

IS THAT RAF, YOU CAN'T SEPARATE HEALTH ISSUES FROM THE ECONOMIC ISSUES.

THAT'S WHAT THE GOVERNOR'S SAYING.

JACK CIATTARELLI'S SAYING YOU SHOULD HAVE BALANCED IT BETTER.

I'M GOING TO K. HIM, YOU'RE GOING TO ASK HIM AND OTHERS, WHAT WOULD YOU HAVE DONE DIFFERENTLY?

IF HE JUST SAYS OPENED UP THE STATE, REALLY?

THAT'S GOING TO BE A TOUGH SELL IN A STATE WITH SO MANY COVID CASES AND DEATHS.

>> SO WE'VE GOT ABOUT A MINUTE LEFT.

THE NOVEMBER ELECTION IS NOT JUST ABOUT THE GOVERNOR'S RACE.

ALL 120 LEGISLATIVE SEATS RUPP FOR GRABS.

IS THAT CORRECT?

ALL THE SENATORS, ALL THE ASSEMBLY MEMBERS.

WHAT'S GOING TO HAPPEN?

ARE REPUBLICANS GOING TO BE ABLE TO GAIN SOME SEATS?

ARE THEY GOING TO LOSE SOME?

IS IT GOING TO MORE OR LESS STAY THE SAME?

>> DOES THE TERM GERRYMANDERING MEAN ANYTHING TO YOU, RAF?

WITHOUT GIVING A CONSTITUTIONAL HISTORY LESSON OR POLITICS AND GOVERNMENT, LET'S SAY THE LEGISLATIVE MAP IN NEW JERSEY FOR ALL THE 40 DISTRICTS, TWO ASSEMBLY MEMBERS, ONE SENATOR, LEANS TO THE DEMOCRATS.

THOSE MAPS WERE PUT TOGETHER FAIRLY, I IMAGINE, BUT THE DEMOCRATS CLEARLY HAVE AN EDGE.

AND SOMETHING CATASTROPHIC HAS TO HAPPEN FOR DEMOCRATS IN THE NATION AND THE STATE FOR REPUBLICANS TO MAKE REAL BIG GAINS.

>> ALL RIGHT.

WELL, WE'RE GOING TO HAVE TO END IT WITH THAT BECAUSE OUR TIME IS OVER.

STEVE, THANK YOU SO MUCH.

AS ALWAYS, IT'S A PLEASURE.

>> ALWAYS A PLEASURE HERE TOO, RAF.

THANK YOU.

♪ >>> "METROFOCUS" IS MADE POSSIBLE BY SUE AND EDGAR WACHENHEIM III, SYLVIA A.

AND SIMON B. POYTA PROGRAMMING ENDOWMENT TO FIGHT ANTI-SEMITISM, THE PETER G. PETERSON AND JOAN GANZ COONEY FUND, BERNARD AND DENISE SCHWARTZ, BARBARA HOPE ZUCKERBERG, THE AMBROSE MONELL FOUNDATION, AND BY JANET PRINDLE SEIDLER, JODY AND JOHN ARNHOLD, CHERYL AND PHILIP MILSTEIN FAMILY, JUDY AND JOSH WESTON, DR. ROBERT C. AND TINA SOHN FOUNDATION.

THE JPB FOUNDATION.