>>> THIS IS "METROFOCUS" WITH RAFAEL PI ROMAN, JACK FORD, AND JENNA FLANAGAN.

>> "METROFOCUS" IS MADE POSSIBLE BY -- SUE AND EDGAR WACHENHEIM III, SYLVIA A.

AND SIMON B. POYTA PROGRAMING ENDOWMENT TO FIGHT ANTI-SEMITISM.

BERNARD AND DENISE SCHWARTZ, BARBARA HOPE ZUCKERBERG, JANET THE AMBROSE MOANLE FOUNDATION, AND BY PRINDLE SEIDLER, JODY AND JOHN ARNHOLD, CHERYL AND PHILIP MILSTEIN FAMILY, JUDY AND JOSH WESTON, DR. ROBERT C. AND TINA SOHN FOUNDATION.

>>> GOOD EVENING AND WELCOME TO "METROFOCUS."

I'M JACK FORD.

AS THE SENATE EMBARKS ON A HISTORIC SECOND IMPEACHMENT TRIAL FOR A U.S. PRESIDENT, A GROUP OF FORMER REPUBLICAN OFFICIALS IS CALLING ON SENATORS FROM THEIR OWN PARTY TO HOLD FORMER PRESIDENT TRUMP ACCOUNTABLE FOR THE DEADLY RIOTS AT THE CAPITOL.

THE GROUP, WHICH INCLUDES FORMER NEW JERSEY CHRISTINE TODD WHITMAN, WARNS THAT BY FAILING TO HOLD THE FORMER PRESIDENT RESPONSIBLE, REPUBLICANS RISK LEAVING A, QUOTE, PERMANENT STAIN ON THE PARTY.

JOINING US NOW TO TALK ABOUT THIS POSITION SHE'S TAKEN AND ALSO THE DIRECTION OF THE REPUBLICAN PARTY AND WHERE IT MIGHT HEAD IN THE FUTURE IS FORMER NEW JERSEY PRESIDENT AND GOVERNOR AND FORMER HE'S OF THE ENVIRONMENTAL PROTECTION AGENCY, CHRISTINE TODD WHITMAN.

GOVERNOR, NICE TO SEE YOU.

THANK YOU FOR JOINING US AGAIN.

>> NICE TO SEE YOU.

>> LET'S START OFF WITH THIS STATE.

AS I MENTIONED, A SIGNIFICANT NUMBER OF FORMER GOVERNORS, ADMINISTRATION OFFICIALS, WHY IN THIS HYPER PARTISAN ENVIRONMENT DID YOU DECIDE TO SO VERY PUBLICLY TAKE ON NOT JUST THE FORMER PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES BUT ALSO MEMBERS OF YOUR OWN PARTY ABOUT THIS IMPEACHMENT TRIAL?

>> BECAUSE WE BELIEVE IN THE RULE OF LAW, AND YOU HAVE TO BE HELD ACCOUNTABLE FOR YOUR ACTIONS.

NOW, HOLDING THE TRIAL IS ONE THING.

WHAT THEY'RE GOING TO HEAR IS ANOTHER AND WHETHER THEY DECIDE TO IMPEACH OR NOT IS GOING TO BE BASED ON THE TESTIMONY THEY GET BUT TO TRY NOT TO HAVE IT AT ALL, HOLD HIM ACCOUNTABLE AT ALL FOR WHAT HE DID, IS REALLY TRYING TO GET AROUND THE LAW.

I KNOW THAT THE CONSTITUTIONAL ARGUMENT HAS BEEN THROWN OUT, THAT YOU CAN'T IMPEACH SOMEBODY AFTER HE'S LEFT OFFICE BUT HE'S ALREADY BEEN IMPEACHED.

THAT HAPPENED IN THE HOUSE.

THAT'S DONE.

THIS IS THE TRIAL.

THIS IS THE TRIAL TO HOLD HIM ACCOUNTABLE ON A VERY NARROW CHARGE.

THIS ISN'T ANYTHING BIGGER THAN WHAT HAPPENED ON JANUARY 6th, WHICH IS ABSOLUTELY APPALLING.

AND EARN WHO WAS INVOLVED WITH THAT SHOULD BE HELD ACCOUNTABLE AND THERE HAVE BEEN ENUMERABLE TESTIMONY BY THOSE WHO PARTICIPATED IN BREAKING INTO THE CAPITOL BY SAYING THE PRESIDENT TOLD US TO DO IT, WE THOUGHT THE PRESIDENT WANTED US TO DO THAT.

WE'RE HERE BECAUSE OF WHAT THE PRESIDENT'S BEEN SAYING.

I HAVE BEEN CONCERNED FROM THE VERY BEGINNING ABOUT THE WAY HE HAS SOUGHT TO DIVIDE PEOPLE AND DEMONIZE GROUPS SIMPLY BECAUSE OF WHERE THEY COME FROM AND TO PROMOTE THIS ANGST AND THIS ANGER THAT WE'RE SEEING NOW WITH QANON AND OTHER ORGANIZATIONS.

>> LET ME GO BACK TO WHAT YOU MENTIONED ABOUT THIS NOTION ABOUT SOME TAKING THE POSITION IT'S USNS CONSTITUTIONAL A, CONDUCT THIS PART OF THE TRIAL FROM THE SENATE.

DESPITE THE OVERWHELMING OPINIONS OF CONSTITUTIONAL LAW SCHOLARS, AND THESE ARE PEOPLE ON BOTH THE CONSERVATIVE CONSTITUTIONAL SCHOLARS AND LIBERAL CONSTITUTIONAL SCHOLARS, OVERWHELMING MAJORITY, AS OPPOSED TO PEOPLE WHO JUST KIND OF HAVE OPINIONS, HAVE SAID CLEARLY THIS IS NOT UNCONSTITUTIONAL.

YOU CAN CHOOSE WHAT WANT TO DO IN THE TRIAL BUT, CLEARLY, THIS IS NOT UNCONSTITUTIONAL.

DO YOU GET THE SENSE MANY REPUBLICAN SENATORS MIGHT JUST BE USING THAT ARGUMENT AS COVER FOR -- TO PREVENT FROM HAVING TO TAKE AN OATH ON THAT RESPONSIBILITY?

>> ABSOLUTELY.

I MEAN, THEY'VE BEEN DODGING TAKING RESPONSIBILITY -- THEY'VE BEEN ENABLERS OF THIS MAN FROM THE VERY BEGINNING AND DODGING RESPONSIBILITY, AND HAVING THIS TRIAL PARTICULARLY BECAUSE THEY'VE BEEN SO AFRAID HIS ATTORNEYS WERE GOING TO BASE HIS DEFENSE ON THE FACT THE ELECTION WAS STOLEN WHEN WE ALL KNOW THE ELECTION WAS NOT STOLEN.

AND NO REPUBLICAN WANTS TO HAVE TO TRY TO DEFEND THAT.

I TAKE IT BACK.

THERE ARE SOME OF THOSE WHO ARE MORE OF THE QANON TYPES WHO CONTINUE TO HAVE THAT KIND OF SUPPORT BUT THE OTHERS DON'T WANT TO BE PUT IN THAT POSITION BECAUSE THEY KNOW IT'S WRONG.

60 CASES, MORE THAN 60 CASES HEARD, BROUGHT BY REPUBLICANS AND DEMOCRATS, ATTORNEY GENERALS GENERAL, HEARD FROM JUDGES, NONE OF THEM FOUND ANY SUBSTANCE TO THE ALLEGATIONS.

SO THAT IS NOT THE ARGUMENT THEY WANT TO HAVE.

THAT'S WHY THEY'RE TRYING TO DO IT ALL BASED ON THIS CONSTITUTIONAL BECAUSE THEY'RE AFRAID THAT'S GOING TO COME UP.

>> WHAT ABOUT THE POSITION THAT MANY REPUBLICANS TAKE, AND WE EVEN HEARD THIS FROM DEMOCRATS, THAT SAY WHAT HAPPENED ON JANUARY 6th WAS HORRENDOUS AND THE PRESIDENT'S CONDUCT WAS DESPICABLE.

HOWEVER, WE ARE TRYING TO AFFECT SOME KIND OF RECONCILIATION.

PRESIDENT BIDEN TALKED ABOUT A UNIFICATION.

AND THESE PEOPLE ARE SAYING THIS WILL NOT HELP US THERE GET THERE, ESPECIALLY GIVEN THE FACT IT DOESN'T APPEAR AT ALL LIKELY THAT THERE WILL BE 17 REPUBLICAN SENATORS WILLING TO SAY YES, WE WILL CONVICT HIM.

WHAT ABOUT THAT ARGUMENT THAT JUST, IT'S NOT GOING TO HELP?

>> YEAH, I'VE HEARD IT.

I'VE HEARD IT A LOT.

BUT TO ME AGAIN IT'S MORE IMPORTANT TO HOLD PEOPLE ACCOUNTABLE FOR THEIR ACTIONS AND PARTICULARLY WHEN THOSE ACTIONS LEAD TO ILLEGAL THINGS HAPPENING.

IT'S JUST GOT TO HAPPEN.

IT MAY MAKE -- IT'S NOT GOING TO MAKE ANYTHING WORSE WITH THE TRUMP POLICY.

IT'S AS BAD AS IT CAN BE WITH THEM.

IN FACT, I'M NOT SURE WHAT KIND OF REPUBLICAN PARTY THERE IS.

IT IS RIGHT NOW A PERSONALITY CULT AROUND THIS PRESIDENT THAT SEEMS TO CONTINUE ON.

WHEN YOU'VE HAD -- THEY'RE STILL KISSING THE RIPPING, ANG, AS ITO GET HIS APPROVAL FOR THINGS.

AND WE NEED TO CALL THAT OUT.

SO DECIDE ON THE EVIDENCE BASED BEFORE THEM, WHICH IS WHY REPUBLICANS DON'T WANT TO HAVE THIS BECAUSE THERE'S PRETTY DAMNING EVIDENCE THAT HE WAS ABSOLUTELY IMPLICIT ON ENCOURAGING THESE PEOPLE TO GO TO THE CAPITOL.

HE STOOD THERE AND SAID, YOU'VE GOT TO GO TO THE CAPITOL.

I WILL BE WITH YOU.

OBVIOUSLY HE DIDN'T GO BUT HE SAID HE WOULD.

HE SAID WE'VE GOT TO FIGHT TO TAKE IT BACK.

ALL OF THOSE THINGS IN THAT ATMOSPHERE.

THERE WAS ONLY ONE OUTCOME REALLY.

SO I THINK REPUBLICANS, THERE MAY -- WHO KNOWS, THERE MAY BE 17 REPUBLICAN SENATORS AT THE END OF THE DAY THAT SAY YEAH, THAT WAS PRETTY BAD AND PRETTY CLEAR.

I DON'T KNOW THAT BUT I STILL THINK IT'S IMPORTANT FOR THIS COUNTRY AS A LESSON PARTICULARLY TO YOUNG PEOPLE COMING UP THERE ARE CONSEQUENCES FOR YOUR ACTIONS AND THE RULE OF LAW DOES MATTER.

>> THIS IS NOT A NEW CONVERSION ON YOUR PART.

BACK IN 2018 YOU ALSO SAID ESSENTIALLY THAT YOU BELIEVED THEM PRESIDENT TRUMP WAS UNFIT FOR THE JOB.

WHY DID YOU BELIEVE IT?

>> WELL, I'VE HAD INTERACTION WITH HIM IN NEW JERSEY WHEN HE OWNED CASINOS, AND A COUPLE OF THINGS, YOU KNOW, JACK, THE THING THAT REALLY GOT ME IS THE WAY HE TREATED THE SMALL GUY, THE LITTLE GUY, WHO WORKED ON HIS CASINOS.

IT WAS USUALLY THE PLUMBER OR ELECTRICIAN.

HE NEVER PAID IN FULL.

HE'D GET THEM TO DO THE JOB AND GIVE THEM PENNIES ON THE DOLLAR AND SAY SUE ME WHEN HE KNEW PERFECTLY WELL THEY DID NOT HAVE THE RESOURCES TO BE ABLE TO SUE HIM.

I NEVER GOT ANYTHING FROM HIM THAT LED ME TO BELIEVE HE HAD THE INTELLECTUAL CURIOSITY OR BACKGROUND TO BE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA.

I NEVER SAW IT AND THAT BEHAVIOR OF HIS, AND ALL PEOPLE SAID WE WANT A BUSINESSMAN, AND I UNDERSTAND THAT, BUT THIS CONGRESS HAD BEEN AND CONTINUES TO BE SO DYSFUNCTIONAL, WHICH IS WHY PEOPLE WERE MAD AND ANGRY AND AFRAID AND THINGS WEREN'T GREAT IN 2016 WHEN THOSE -- WHEN WE HAD THE ELECTIONS.

BUT I WOULD RATHER HAVE A BUSINESSMAN THAT HAD FIVE BANKRUPTCIES, THAT'S NOT MY DEFINITION OF A GOOD BUSINESSMAN IN THIS COUNTRY.

WE CAN FIND A LOT OF VERY SUCCESSFUL ONES WHO COULD PERHAPS LEAD THE COUNTRY.

B BUT I JUST NEVER SAW HE HAD THE BACKGROUND, INTELLIGENCE, INTEREST OR INTERELECT TO BE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES.

>> WE ARE ONCE AGAIN TALKING WITH FORMER NEW JERSEY GOVERNOR CHRISTINE TODD WHITMAN ABOUT THE SECOND IMPEACHMENT TRIAL OF FORMER PRESIDENT DONALD TRUMP.

LET'S TALK ABOUT THE PARTY ITSELF.

AND I WANT TO TAKE YOU BACK TO 2005 WHEN YOU WROTE A BOOK, AND IT WAS CALLED "IT'S MY PARTY TOO: TAKING BACK THE REPUBLICAN PARTY AND BRINGING THE COUNTRY TOGETHER AGAIN."

THAT WAS 16 YEARS AGO YOU WROTE THAT BOOK.

INTERESTING THING WHILE YOU AND I WERE CHATTING BEFORE WE WENT ON THE AIR ABOUT THE NOTION OF BEING ABLE TO SAY I TOLD YOU SO.

WOULD YOU HAVE EXPECTED WHEN YOU WROTE THAT 16 YEARS AGO THAT WE WOULD BE IN THIS SCENARIO TODAY?

>> NOT THIS BAD, NO.

I COULD SEE THE DIRECTION WE WERE GOING IN, AND I WORRIED VERY MUCH ABOUT THE PARTY.

NOT THE PARTY I GREW UP WITH THAT MY PARENTS WERE PART OF, MY GRANDPARENTS WERE A PART OF.

LIKE YOU, I HAD A HISTORY OF THE FAMILY GOING BACK AND BEING A MEMBER OF IT MYSELF.

BUT YOU COULD SEE WHERE IT WAS GOING AND IT WAS VERY DISTRESSFUL.

SO THERE'S NO -- AS I SAID TO YOU EARLIER, THERE'S NO SATISFACTION IN I TOLD YOU SO.

BUT WE'RE AT A PLACE THAT I NEVER THOUGHT WE'D GET TO, JACK.

I JUST NEVER THOUGHT WE'D HAVE A PRESIDENT WHO TO ME SEEMED ALMOST BENT ON IGNORING THE CONSTITUTION AND UNDERMINING THE RULE OF LAW.

IT WAS ALMOST AS IF THAT'S WHAT HE WANTED TO DO, TOTALLY DESTABILIZE THE GOVERNMENT, WELL, YOU'VE SEEN IT, WITHDRAW FROM ANY INTERNATIONAL INVOLVEMENT PARTICULARLY WITH OUR ALLIES, SOMEONE WHO CONTINUES TO DEFEND RUSSIA AND IGNORE THE FACT IT'S CLEAR FROM ALL OF OUR INTELLIGENCE, I MEAN, I'M NOT PRIVY TO THE INTELLIGENCE BRIEFINGS BUT WE CERTAINLY KNOW FROM EVERYTHING WE'VE HEARD, FROM THOSE WHO ARE, THAT RUSSIA WAS VERY MUCH A FACTOR IN THE ELECTIONS AND CONTINUES TO BE DISRUPTIVE.

THE FACT THAT RUSSIA PUT A BOUNTY -- HE NEVER SAID A WORD WHEN WE HEARD RUSSIA PUT A BOUNTY ON OUR TROOPS IN AFGHANISTAN, NEVER SAID A WORD WHEN WE KNEW THEY HAD RUN A TRUCK INTO ONE OF OUR VEHICLES AND INJURED SOME AMERICAN TROOPS.

YOU'RE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES, YOU DEFEND US AGAINST ALL ENEMIES, FOREIGN AND DOMESTIC.

YOU STAND UP TO THAT KIND OF THING.

OF COURSE, HIS -- HIS CULTIVATING OF THE PROUD BOYS, WHATEVER WANT TO CALL IT, IS SOMETHING THAT'S JUST OUTSIDE ANYTHING I COULD HAVE IMAGINED.

>> TALK ABOUT YOUR INVOLVEMENT WITH THE REPUBLICAN PARTY, LIFELONG FAMILY, THE REPUBLICAN PARTY ALWAYS HAD BEEN KNOWN AS THE PARTY OF LOWER TAXES, FREE TRADE, THE PARTY OF PROTECTING BUSINESSES AND BUSINESS PEOPLE AND YET THERE ARE MANY WHO BELIEVE, AND I COMMENT FROM MARJORIE TAYLOR GREENE, WHO HERSELF HAS CREATED A SERIES OF PROBLEMS FOR THE PARTY, BUT SHE SAID THIS IS THE PARTY OF TRUMP.

IS IT NOW THE PARTY OF TRUMP AND HOW DID IT GET THERE?

I GUESS IT'S A MULTIPLE QUESTION, IS IT THE PARTY OF TRUMP?

HOW DID IT GET THERE, AND IN YOUR OPINION, HOW DOES IT GET OUTSIDE OF THOSE BOUNDS?

>> WHETHER IT IS OR NOT, WHICH I THINK IT IS, RIGHT NOW THE PARTY IS DEFINED, A REPUBLICAN IS DEFINITELY A CULT PERSONALITY.

IT'S THE PARTY OF TRUMP.

BECAUSE HE CONTROLS THE NATIONAL COMMITTEE.

YOU'VE SEEP HE'S GOT A LOT OF STATE COMMITTEES THAT ARE MOVING FORWARD.

I THINK APPALLING TO ME THAT WE HAVE AS MANY STATE LEGISLATURES RUN BY REPUBLICANS WHO ARE RIGHT NOW PUTTING FORWARD BILLS TRYING TO REDUCE THE ABILITY OF PEOPLE TO HAVE ACCESS TO THE POLLS.

MINE, THIS IS NOT THE PARTY OF WHICH I GREW UP.

WE RESPECTED THE INDIVIDUAL.

WE WANTED PEOPLE TO VOTE.

NOW WE'RE THE PARTY THAT'S TRYING TO FIGURE OUT ANY WHICH WAY WE CAN TO SUPPRESS THE VOTE.

SO I THINK THAT'S WHAT'S HAPPENING.

YOU SEE WHAT'S HAPPENING, I BELIEVE THAT'S WHAT'S HAPPENING IN WASHINGTON, BECAUSE PEOPLE ARE TRYING TO DECIDE HOW DO THEY GET -- HOW DO THEY BACK OFF FROM THEIR WHOLEHEARTED ENDORSEMENT OF TRUMP, WHETHER THEY DID IT -- WHETHER THEY WERE OUTRIGHT AND OUTSPOKEN IN SUPPORT OF HIM OR WHETHER THEY JUST STOOD BY AND KEPT MAKING EXCUSES FOR WHAT HE WAS DOING AND SUPPORTING SOME OF HIS PROGRAMS AND THINGS.

THEY WERE ENABLERS, EVEN IF THEY DIDN'T SAY ANYTHING, THEY WERE ENABLERS.

NOW THEY'RE TRYING TO FIGURE OUT HOW DO WE GET OUT OF THIS MESS?

AND IT'S REALLY HARD BECAUSE HIS VOTERS ARE PEOPLE THAT VOTE.

THEY GET OUT THERE, THEY GET TO THE POLLS.

AND THAT'S WHAT WORRIES REPUBLICANS, THE PRIMARY, IF THEY WALK AWAY FROM DONALD TRUMP, THEY'RE AFRAID THEY'RE GOING TO BE PRIMARIED BY TRUMP SUPPORTERS AND LOSE.

I THINK THAT'S WRONG.

BUT THESE PEOPLE ARE REALLY DEDICATED.

AND THEY ALSO -- THE KINDS OF THREATS THEY PUT OUT, THEY SCARED SOME PEOPLE.

OF COURSE, MARJORIE TAYLOR GREENE, I'M SORRY, SHE'S ON THE OTHER SIDE OF LUNACY AS FAR AS I'M CONCERNED WITH SOME OF HER IDEAS AND BELIEVES.

I SAW AN INTERESTING PROGRAM ON CNN I GUESS IT WAS LAST NIGHT, INTERVIEW, WITH A WOMAN, OR TODAY, WITH A WOMAN WHO HAD BEEN CAUGHT UP IN QANON DESCRIBING HOW WAS SHE HAD BEEN SO FRUSTRATED BECAUSE THE ECONOMY WASN'T WORKING FOR HER.

SHE HAD A BUSINESS, AND WE REMEMBER BACK TO THOSE DAYS PEOPLE WERE WORKING TWO JOBS TO STAY IN THE SAME PLACE.

CONGRESS WASN'T ADDRESSING THEIR NEEDS.

SO SHE WAS LOOKING FOR SOMEONE WHO WAS REFLECTING THAT.

AND SHE GOT INTO QANON AND THEN IT BECAME EASIER AND EASIER TO JUST GET INTO THAT SPACE.

AND SHE SAID, SHE CLAIMS -- SHE CALLED IT BRAINWASHING, SHE GOT TOTALLY BRAINWASHED.

SHE LOST HER FAMILY.

HER HUSBAND FINALLY HAD TO CALL THE POLICE ON HER ONE DAY WHEN SHE WAS REALLY GOING OFF.

>> I SAW THAT STORY.

I SAW THAT STORY.

>> PULLED FACE MASKS OFF AT A TARGET AND JUST GOT OUT OF CONTROL.

IT WAS REALLY INTERESTING TO ME HOW SHE SAID IT TOOK OVER HER LIFE BECAUSE SHE HAD BEEN SO FRUSTRATED AND DIDN'T FEEL THERE WAS ANYBODY WHO WAS REALLY LISTENING AND STARTED AT A QANON AND THEN IT BECAME A SELF-FULFILLING THING AND JUST GOT DEEPER AND DEEPER AND BELIEVED ALL OF THESE CRAZY STORIES.

YOU KNOW, HILLARY CLINTON OB SCANNING WITH BABIES TO MURDER THEM AND TAKE THE SKIN OFF AND WEAR IT AS A FACE MASK.

REALLY, HONESTLY, YOU BELIEVE THAT STUFF?

AND THAT IT WAS -- WHAT WAS IT, AN ISRAELI ROCKET THAT STARTED THE WILDFIRES.

>> AS YOU SAID, THERE ARE PEOPLE WHO BELIEVE IN THIS.

THAT'S A DIFFERENT ISSUE WE HAVE TO DEAL WITH.

LAST QUESTION FOR YOU, GOT ABOUT A MINUTE AND A HALF HERE, SENATOR LINDSEY GRAHAM I SAW JUST RECENTLY ON ONE OF THE SUNDAY MORNING SHOWS WAS ARGUING WHY THE SENATE SHOULD NOT BE ENGAGING IN THIS TRIAL, UNCONSTITUTIONAL, NEED TO ENGAGE IN RECONCILIATION, ALL OF THOSE ARGUMENTS, BUT HE SAID AN INTERESTING THING.

HE SAID LOOK, IF PEOPLE WANT TO CHARGE PRESIDENT TRUMP CRIMINALLY FOR WHAT HE DID, THAT'S FINE, GO AHEAD AND DO THAT, BUT IT DOESN'T BELONG HERE IN THE SENATE NOW THAT HE'S OUT OF OFFICE.

WHAT DO YOU THINK ABOUT THAT, SHOULD HE BE CHARGED CRIMINALLY?

>> I THINK SO.

HE'S GOING TO HAVE ENOUGH LEGAL PROBLEMS IN NEW YORK WITH THESE TAXES AND EVERYTHING THAT THAT'S -- THE THING ABOUT HAVING IT GO FORWARD WITH THE SENATE IS IT'S GOING TO BE PRESENTED IN A WAY THAT WILL ALLOW THE AMERICAN PEOPLE TO HEAR ALL OF THE EVIDENCE.

THEY WON'T GET THAT IN ANY OTHER KIND OF TRIAL.

THE ONLY PLACE THEY WILL GET THAT KIND OF OPPORTUNITY IS WHEN IT'S HEARD IN THAT PUBLIC BODY.

AND I THINK THAT'S IMPORTANT AND THEN PEOPLE CAN MAKE UP THEIR OWN MIND, DO THEY THINK HE REALLY OVERSTEPPED THE BOUNDS OR NOT?

AND THEY LIKE THAT, AT LEAST I DO.

>> I THINK THAT'S AN ABSOLUTELY MARV MARVELOUS POINT, LET'S PLAY IT OUT AND PEOPLE CAN DECIDE FOR THEMSELVES.

BUT THIS IS THE ONE VENUE, THAT YOU SAID, WILL ALLOW IT TO BE PLAYED OUT IN PUBLIC.

GOVERNOR WHITMER, IT'S ALWAYS A PLEASURE TO TALK WITH YOU.

THANK YOU FOR SPENDING SOME TIME WITH US.

YOU TAKE CARE AND BE SAFE AND HOPEFULLY YOU AND I CAN CHECK IN AND TALK A LITTLE DOWN THE ROAD.

>> ABSOLUTELY, WOULD LOVE TO.

THANK YOU.

>> YOU BE WELL.

♪ LOVE AS I KNOW I HAVE LOVE I CAN MAKE IT ♪ FOR ONCE IN MY LIFE I HAVE SOMEONE WHO NEEDS ME ♪ >> NO ONE ELSE IN POPULAR MUSIC HAS RECORDED FOR AS LONG AND SUCH A HIGH LEVEL OF EXCELLENCE AS THE LEGENDARY SINGER, ARTIST AND PERFORMER TONY BENNETT.

FOR MORE THAN SEVEN DECADES, THE 19 GRAMMY AWARD WINNER HAS SOLD MILLIONS OF RECORDS AROUND THE WORLD, WITH 10 MILLION RECORDS IN THE LAST 10 YEARS ALONE.

HE'S HAD 24 SONGS IN THE TOP 40 INCLUDING "I WANT TO BE AROUND," "THE GOOD LIFE," "WHO CAN I TURN TO?"

AND HIS SIGNATURE SONG "I LOVE MY HEART IN SAN FRANCISCO."

♪ I LEFT MY HEART IN SAN FRANCISCO ♪ >> BUT HE BEGAN HIS ARTISTIC ACHIEVEMENT AS A YOUNG BOY HERE IN NEW YORK IN THE ASTORIA SECTION, QUEENS, NEW YORK, WHERE HE WAS BORN SOME 90 YEARS AGO.

NOW HE AND HIS WIFE SUSAN, A FORMER DEDICATED TEACHER AND CHAMPION OF PUBLIC SCHOOLS, ARE MAKING DREAMS COME TRUE FOR THOUSANDS OF NEW YORK CITY PUBLIC HIGH SCHOOL STUDENTS.

THEY STARTED THE EXPLORING THE ARTS, OR EPA ORGANIZATION BACK IN 1939 TO HELP TRANSFORM THE LIVES OF YOUNG PEOPLE THROUGH ARTS EDUCATION.

THE END, WITH THEIR DREAM TO CREATE THE FRANK SINATRA SCHOOL OF THE ARTS, A PUBLIC HIGH SCHOOL IN TONY'S HOMETOWN OF ASTORIA, QUEENS.

NOW THE PROGRAM SERVES 33 PUBLIC HIGH SCHOOLS, 27 HERE IN NEW YORK AND 6 IN L.A.

I RECENTLY CAUGHT UP WITH BOTH OF THEM AT THE PALEY CENTER FOR MEDIA, WHICH IS CELEBRATING TONY'S 90 YEARS OF ARTISTRY WITH AN EXHIBITION OF HIS ORIGINAL ARTWORK.

AND I BEGAN BY ASKING WHY HE'S BEEN SO PASSIONATE ABOUT SUPPORTING THE ARTS IN THE PUBLIC SCHOOLS.

>> I THINK THE AMERICAN PUBLIC SHOULD BE ENCOURAGED TO BE AS CREATIVE AS POSSIBLE.

WE SHOULD ALL CREATE.

THE MORE WE CREATE INDIVIDUALLY, THE MORE IT WILL GO OUT INTO THE WORLD AND WE'LL GET GREAT RESPECT FROM THE REST OF THE WORLD FOR SAYING GOOD THINGS ABOUT BEING ALIVE.

>> SUSAN, YOU WERE A TEACHER FOR MANY YEARS.

>> YES.

>> SO I AM SURE YOU SAW WHERE AS BRU BUDGETS GOT TIGHTER, ONE OF THE FIRST THINGS THAT WENT AWAY WERE THE ARTS.

>> THE ARTS AND SPORTS, TWO REASONS WHY KID COME TO SCHOOL.

>> TO KEEP THEM IN SCHOOL.

>> YEAH.

>> WHY WAS IT SO IMPORTANT FOR YOU AND TONY, AND LET'S FOCUS FIRST ON THE FRANK SINATRA SCHOOL OF THE ARTS, WHY WAS IT SO IMPORTANT TO CREATE THAT AND WHAT WERE YOU HOPING TO GET FROM IT?

>> WELL, AS YOU SAY, I WAS A TEACHER AT AN ARTS SCHOOL, ARTS HIGH SCHOOL.

TONY, WHEN HE WAS IN PUBLIC SCHOOL, THERE WERE GOOD ARTS PROGRAMS AND SO WE EACH IN OUR OWN WAY SAW FIRSTHAND THE DIFFERENCE THE ARTS MAKE IN A CHILD'S LIFE.

AND WHEN YOU TEACH THE ARTS, THE KIDS WANT TO COME TO SCHOOL AND THEY TEND TO DO BETTER ACROSS ALL OF THEIR DISCIPLINES.

THEY'RE ABLE TO DISCOVER WHO THEY ARE AT A CRITICAL TIME, AS A TEEN, YOU'RE TRYING TO FIGURE OUT WHERE DO I FIT IN THE WORLD?

AND THEY DISCOVER THEIR CREATIVITY AND THEY DISCOVER THE CREATIVITY OF OTHERS AND CELEBRATE THAT.

THE GREAT THING ABOUT PUBLIC EDUCATION IS IT BRINGS PEOPLE TOGETHER FROM ALL WALKS OF LIFE.

SO YOUR FELLOW ARTISTS, YOUR CLASSMATE MIGHT BE FROM A TOTALLY DIFFERENT BACKGROUND THAN YOU BUT YOU COME TOGETHER OVER THIS SHARED EXPERIENCE OF CREATING OR SIMPLY EXPERIENCING ART.

AND YOU LOOK BEYOND THOSE DIFFERENCES AND YOU'RE NO LONGER AFRAID OF THOSE DIFFERENCES.

YOU CELEBRATE AND REALIZE MY PERSPECTIVE IS AS VALUABLE AS YOUR PERSPECTIVE.

AND THAT'S WHAT BRINGS THE WORLD TOGETHER, BRINGS PEOPLE TOGETHER, IS THAT SHARED EXPERIENCE IN THE ARTS.

TONY HAD ALL OF THESE WONDERFUL EXPERIENCES AS A YOUNGSTER WHERE HE WAS ABLE TO REALIZE HIS DREAMS AND WE SEE THAT TAKEN AWAY.

LIKE YOU SIGH WITH BUDGET CUTS.

>> TONY, LET ME ASK YOU ABOUT THAT BECAUSE YOU AS A TEENAGER WENT TO HIGH SCHOOL, THE HIGH SCHOOL FOR INDUSTRIAL ARTS.

>> RIGHT.

>> HOW DID THAT HELP TO SHAPE YOU?

HOW DID THAT HELP TO PUSH YOU IN THE DIRECTION YOU EVENTUALLY TRAVELED IN?

>> IT MEANT EVERYTHING.

IT MEANT EVERYTHING IN JUNIOR SCHOOL AND HIGH SCHOOL.

THEY ALL SAID, YOU KNOW, YOU HAVE TO DO A LOT OF WORK.

THE NEW SCHOOL SAID GO INTO CENTRAL PARK, I COULDN'T BELIEVE IT, PAINT NATURE.

>> WONDER INTO THE PART AND DO SOME PAINTING.

>> YEAH, PAINT NATURE.

STUDY NATURE.

>> AND THIS WAS YOUR EXPERIENCE IN HIGH SCHOOL.

>> HERE I AM 90 YEARS OLD AND I'M STILL STUDYING NATURE.

>> STILL WANDERING INTO THE PARK TO STUDY.

HERE'S MY QUESTION, TONY, FOR YOU, IF NOT THE TONY BENNETT SCHOOL OF THE ARTS, IT'S THE FRANK SINATRA SCHOOL OF THE ARTS.

WHY DID YOU CHOOSE TO PUT FRANK'S NAME ON THAT SCHOOL?

>> THAT'S HOW MUCH I RESPECTED HIM BECAUSE HE REALLY IS THE FIRST ONE AS A SOLO ARTIST TO MAKE POPULAR MUSIC VERY, VERY FAMOUS.

AND I WAS INSPIRED BY HIM, BEING 15 YEARS OLDER THAN ME, AND HE WAS MY INSPIRATION.

AND HE IS TO THIS DAY A MAGNIFICENT ARTIST THAT ALWAYS DEPENDED ON QUALITY MUSIC.

>> AND I SAW AT ONE POINT IN TIME WHERE FRANK SINATRA SAID, YOU KNOW WHO THE BEST SINGER OUT THERE RIGHT NOW?

TONY BENNETT.

>> WHAT DID HE KNOW?

>> I THINK HE KNEW A LOT TO PICK YOU AS THAT.

>> AND IF I MAY, ONE OF OUR MOST SUCCESSFUL PROGRAMS THAT WE HAVE WITH OUR NONPROFIT EXPLORING THE ARTS IS OUR TONY BENNETT APPRENTICESHIP PROGRAM, AND IN A WAY, SINATRA WAS ONE OF YOUR MENTORS WHEN YOU STARTED OUT.

>> SO IN A WAY HE THE GOOD TO APPRENTICE, TO SOME EXCEPT, FRANK SINATRA.

>> IT WASN'T A TRUE APPRENTICESHIP BUT HE HELPED YOU OUT A LOT WHEN YOU WERE FIRST STARTING OUT.

>> HE WAS SO INSPIRING TO ME.

I COULDN'T BELIEVE IT.

>> HE WAS SO GENEROUS TO YOU.

YOU TALKED ABOUT YOUR NONPROFIT, EXPLORING THE ARTS.

TELL ME A LITTLE BIT ABOUT HOW THAT WORKS.

THERE ARE ABOUT 33 NOW PARTNER SCHOOLS YOU HAVE.

>> BETWEEN NEW YORK AND LOS ANGELES, EXACTLY.

>> HOW DOES IT WORK WHEN EXPLORING THE ARTS GETS INVOLVED WITH ONE OF THESE PARTNER SCHOOLS?

>> WE WERE WELCOMED IN BOTH NEW YORK AND LOS ANGELES BECAUSE BOTH CITIES VALUE THE ARTS SO MUCH AND PUBLIC EDUCATION.

IN A WAY, IT'S RATHER EASY.

WE DON'T HAVE TO GO THROUGH ANY BUREAUCRACY.

WE REACH OUT TO SCHOOLS AND THEY SEND US PROPOSALS.

WE WORK IN SCHOOLS FOR A TOTAL OF FOUR YEARS AND THEN MOVE ON TO SORT OF OUR GRADUATES SO TO SPEAK, OUR LEGACY SCHOOLS.

BUT THE SINATRA SCHOOL WE ALWAYS SUPPORT.

THEY PRESENT THEIR GOALS AND WE WORK WITH THEM ON AN ANNUAL BASIS TO MAKE SURE THEY'RE WORKING TO ACHIEVE HIGH QUALITY, SUSTAINABLE ARTS PROGRAMS.

IF THEY HAVE A CERTIFIED ARTS TEACHER, AND THEY HAVE TO HAVE AT LEAST ONE OR HOW COULD THEY SUSTAIN A PROGRAM?

IF THEY HAVE THAT, WE WILL COME UP WITH THE OPPORTUNITY AND STRUCTURE TO HELP THEM WITH THESE PROGRAMS SO THEY CAN CARRY ON.

>> WHAT KIND OF REACTION HAVE THE TWO OF YOU GOTTEN TO ALL THAT YOU'VE DONE FOR EDUCATION AND PUBLIC SCHOOLS, WHAT KIND OF SATISFACTION HAS THAT PROVIDED FOR THE TWO OF YOU?

>> IT'S TREMENDOUSLY SATISFYING TO KNOW YOU'RE DOING SOMETHING GREAT FOR YOUNG PEOPLE, OF COURSE.

BUT I ALSO SEE IT PERSONALLY FROM ME AS I LOVE IT AS PART OF TONY'S LEGACY BECAUSE HE REALLY WANTS TO GIVE BACK THE WAY PEOPLE HELPED HIM WHEN HE STARTED OUT.

SO THAT'S TREMENDOUSLY GRATIFYING.

ONE QUICK STORY, YOU PROBABLY REMEMBER IT, OUR FIRST GRADUATING CLASS OF THE SINATRA SCHOOL, AMONG PEOPLE LIKE TONY AND HARRY BELAFONTE, JERRY SEINFELD, ALL SORTS OF PEOPLE WERE THERE.

IT WAS GREAT.

WE HAD THE LATE GOVERNOR MARIO CUOMO.

AND I HAVE NEVER FORGOTTEN THIS BECAUSE IT REALLY TALKED ABOUT INSPIRATION, MOTIVATING YOU TO KEEP GOING, ESPECIALLY IN THIS DAY AND AGE.

HE WAS TALKING TO THE KIDS AND HE ENDED HIS SPEECH BY SAYING THAT A NATION GETS ITS SOUL FROM THE ARTS, NOT ITS MILITARY OR ITS ECONOMY, IT GETS ITS SOUL FROM THE ARTS AND, THEREFORE, BRINGS HOPE TO THE WORLD, SO HE CHALLENGED THE GRADUATES TO GO OUT AND GIVE HOPE TO THE WORLD.

AND I THOUGHT TO MYSELF, WHAT COULD BE BETTER THAN HELPING THESE YOUNG PEOPLE WHO HAVE THAT OPPORTUNITY TO GO OUT IN THE WORLD AND HELP, IT MIGHT SOUND CORNY BUT IT TOUCHED ME AND THESE GRADUATES AND THAT'S WHAT WE ARE ASKING THESE GRADUATES TO DO, GO OUT AND GIVE THE WORLD HOPE.

NOTHING MORE IMPORTANT, ESPECIALLY IN THIS DAY IN AGE.

SO WE GO TO SLEEP ON THAT EVERY NIGHT.

>>> "METROFOCUS" IS MADE POSSIBLE BY -- SUE AND EDGAR WACHENHEIM III, SYLVIA A.

AND SIMON B. POYTA PROGRAMING ENDOWMENT TO FIGHT ANTI-SEMITISM.

BERNARD AND DENISE SCHWARTZ, BARBARA HOPE ZUCKERBERG, JANET PRINDLE SEIDLER, JODY AND JOHN ARNHOLD, CHERYL AND PHILIP MILSTEIN FAMILY, JUDY AND JOSH WESTON, DR. ROBERT C. AND TINA SOHN FOUNDATION.